i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. at a start of a historic week for our country. later this morning donald trump is expected to travel from new jersey to florida where he'll be arraigned tomorrow, set to become the first former president ever to enter a plea in a federal case. but there could be a wrinkle in the proceedings. we'll explain that. this as some of trump's closest former allies are warning the facts are against him. >> if even half of it is true, then he's toast. it's a pretty -- it's a very detailed indictment. it's very, very damning. security in miami ramping up ahead of the former president's arrival. we'll have the latest on the massive effort to keep everyone safe. plus a travel nightmare. a fire causing a section of the very crucial interstate 95 to collapse. this is near philadelphia. we'll have a live update on the

repairs and the investigation -- repairs that could take months. later, a miracle in absolutely every sense of the word. four missing children, the youngest not even 1-year-old found alive in the colombian jungle after being lost for 40 days following a plane crash. we're live from bogota for the latest on their recovery and how they survived. let's begin with the latest surrounding the historic indictment of frurp. in just the next couple hours we expect trump to leave his residence in bedminster, new jersey, and head to miami where he should be in front of the magistrate judge tomorrow to enter a plea after being indicted on 37 counts. this is a judge who will not be the controversial judge cannon. judge cannon will be responsible for overseeing the trial itself, but not tomorrow's arraignment. we're just learning there could be changes to that plan. let's bring in nbc news correspondent garrett haake in miami, nbc news homeland

security correspondent julia ainsley and katherine christian, former manhattan district attorney and msnbc legal analyst. garrett, we're getting new reporting that apparently trump is having a hard time finding a lawyer ahead of the hearing tomorrow. what does that mean for the proceedings? >> reporter: ana, everybody involved hopes this is a pretty straightforward federal arraignment in which the president gets in and out, maybe ten minutes or so and then he's out of here. one of the things that's not entirely clear is who would be representing mr. trump in the courthouse behind me. his two late attorneys both resigned last week, friday morning fairly abruptly. they suggested there could be new counsel being hired to represent trump in florida. that counsel, if it has been hired, has not been announced yet. of course, donald trump has lots of lawyers who work for him, including some that presumably are barred in the state of

florida, meaning they can practice in florida. if there's not an attorney ready to go with him, it's possible we could see some of these proceedings delayed. the former president expected to be in florida today, later this afternoon. we'll be watching this closely to see whether this sort of attorney question gets cleared up before tomorrow morning. >> assuming this hearing does happen, walk us through or set the stage about what we'll see and what you're learning about trump's plans after his arraignment. >> reporter: the arraignment itself should be fairly bare bones, perhaps even shorter than what we saw in new york city because of the way the federal magistrate judge system works. there won't be extra issues brought up, potentially the reading of the charges, reading of the indictment, which could be waived. there will be a plea deal, conditions of re lease and that's about it. as for the politics of it, donald trump has been very clear over the weekend, he intends to

fight this thing tooth and nail on the political stage including when i had the chance to ask him about it on saturday as he was talking to voters in georgia. here is what he told me. >> did nothing wrong, nothing wrong whatsoever. we did absolutely nothing wrong. take a look at the presidential records act. we did it by the book, perfect, except we have thugs and creeps running this country, and it's a real problem for our country. >> reporter: every time we air this clip, i have to fact-check it. you can look at the presidential records act. the national archives tweeted out a very helpful faq including presidents have to separate out their personal from presidential records before leaving office. there's nothing about going home and doing it after the fact. the former president does have a political playbook for indictments and arraignments now. he'll basically be following a very simple pattern to what he did in new york. he'll leave here, fly back to his golf club in ] where he's holding a fund-raiser and giving

a speech. his campaign raised something like $12 million in the week around his last indictment. it's a feat they're hoping to repeat this time. ana. >> julia, as we mentioned, the judge assigned to this case is judge alean cannon, previously involved in proceedings related to the mar-a-lago search and made very favorable rulings for trump that were twice overturned by a federal appeals court. what are you learning about how cannon was selected here and her role moving forward. >> this is a judge, a trump ap pine tea who has a history of stepping beyond her legal authority to issue trump-favorable rulings. that's according to a three-judge panel, two who were also trump appointees, anti pointing a special master to determine whether the fbi had the authority last summer.

this was a random appointment. my colleague, ken dilanian said because the prosecution wanted this to be viewed in the northern division of the southern district of florida, they checked the box, which means only four or five judges to choose from. a court official recently told "the new york times" this all happened according to proper procedure. we're not getting any indications there was political maneuvering behind the scenes, that she was randomly selected. what's more is that the only way for her to leave this case would be if she, herself, decided to leave or step down. it would be very hard to take this case away from her. but just like we saw last year when that case was -- her ruling was nullified by that three-judge panel, there are checks and balances within our judicial system. any ruling she makes could also be checked. it could be appealed. there could be other people who can come in and try to check her

power here. she's not omnipotent. it is a concern for prosecute ers for her to now be overseeing this important case, even though what they've build, as barr said, such a very compelling and detailed case. also, former attorney general eric holder just yesterday talked to msnbc's general saki. here is what he had to say. >> i'm concerned about her handling this case based on what she did in the earlier phases of this matter. i'm not sure she has the legal acumen to be a judge in charge of such an important case. >> so you can see a lot of questions coming up around her role in this case. >> i want to drill down for an extra moment to how important judge cannon will be as the judge. we know cannon will judge how quickly the case goes to trial. she'll oversee the selection of the jurors, can determine what evidence can be presented to the jury. so katherine, do you have

concerns about judge cannon being the judge in this case? >> no, i don't. part of the reason is you will never hear me publicly criticize a juchlkt she has been reversed twice. judges hate to be reversed. it's embarrassing. hopefully that will humble her. this is going to be the most-watched trial ever. forget o.j. this is going to be the most-watched trial. she has an incentive to be fair and impartial because f she isn't, a black cloud will be over her head for the rest of her career. if she is fehr and impartial, the only thing she has to worry about is donald trump criticizing her. that's the only thing. i am hopeful she will rise to the occasion, she will follow the law. in terms of her not knowing and not having the legal abilities, that's what you have clerks for who will do the research and get her up to speed. i think to say, well, the d.c. judges know more than the florida judges, i just don't think that's true.

i think she has every incentive for her professional stake to be fair and impartial. >> let's just talk about for a moment what's in this 49-page indictment. it's all marked up here, and what we're seeing now in terms of the reaction. it's been released. i encourage people at home to read it as well. it's on msnbc.com. let's listen to what trump's former attorney bill barr had to say following his read of it. >> if even half of it is true, then he's toast. it's a very detailed indictment. it's very, very damning. yes, his adversaries have obsessively pursued him with phony claims. i've been at his side defending against them when he is a victim. this is much different. he's not a victim here. >> catherine, this is bill barr, we remember how he behaved as trump's a.g. how significant is it for him to

make this assessment? >> very significant. whatever you think about him politically, he's a very experienced attorney, former prosecutor. what's interesting about this indictment is the way it was written. it was written for laypeople. you don't have to be a criminal lawyer to understand it. there's no legalese. it's very detailed, very straightforward, no reliance on any legal novel theories. it's very straightforward if the facts are true. it details the woeful retention of these classified documents. what i find very interesting when i read it, multiple times, is how micromanaging mr. trump was over this, over the moving, the packing, the storage, the retention of these documents. his hands were all over it. he can't said, oh, my aides did it, i don't know what happened. even his prior statements he makes it clear they're my documents. that's his view.

>> just real quick. every indication is trump is going to fight this to the bitter end. if you're his lawyers, i do wonder, having read this indictment, if they may be thinking perhaps a plea deal, would it be in their client's best interest. what do you think? >> i do defense work. you never base a plea just on the indictment. you wait for the evidence. you say, mr. trump, listen to this audio. is that you? you have him read the text messages between his employees. do you know who these employees could be? did this happen? so you go through all the evidence with your client, and if there are not any legitimate defenses, you sort of say, well, it's going to be kind of hard to combat these facts because it seems like they have a lot of proof. so what's in the indictment, there's going to be much more proof that we don't know about that he will be privy to as part of the discovery process. >> some of these charges have sentences up to 20 years in

prison. so the stakes are high as far as the potential consequences. catherine christian, garrett haake, julia ainsley, thank you for this discussion. when we're back in 60 seconds, the intense security protections under way at the miami courthouse will trump will appear tomorrow. law and order for loyalty. if the goal for the 2024 gop candidates is to defeat trump, at what point do they compete against the former president instead of appearing to support him. what new polling may reveal. a story i can't stop thinking about. the miraculous survival story of four children whose plane crashed in the amazon. you're watching "ana cabrera reports." stay right there. watching "anaa reports. stay right there can count on. and now she's got myplan. the game changing new plan that lets her pick exactly what she wants and save on every perk. sadie's getting her plan ready for a big trip. travel pass, on. nice iphone 14 pro! cute couple. trips don't last forever. neither does summer love. so, sadie's moving on. apple music? check.

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a host of different agencies, the fbi, the city of miami, the secret service, the u.s. marshal service, all tasked with keeping the former president safe, coordinating a massive media presence and guarding against any potential outside threats. our ken dilanian has reporting on this, joining us from miami. also with us, retired seattle police chief and msnbc law enforcement analyst carmen best. ken, what can you tell us about the security preparations there in miami? >> reporter: good morning, ana. we're already seeing a much different situation today than over the weekend when i was also standing here. new barricades are being put in place. a much greater presence of police and other security officers, homeland security police. you're absolutely right. this is a joint operation between the miami police, the homeland security, court security police, the federal marshals and the secret service has to protect donald trump's life. they have to make sure this

perimeter is safe. >> so once he gets here, who is in charge of the security of this perimeter? >> the perimeter outside the courthouse is obviously miami. courthouse and in is u.s. marshals. even fbi agents that come in and testify and do things, we can't carry guns into a federal courthouse. but with the secret service obviously protecting someone, they've probably coordinated enough to then -- his protective detail is obviously going to be able to carry guns inside. >> reporter: to be clear, i did confirm that the secret service protective detail will be allowed to care carry buns inside this courthouse. we believe he'll come in through an underground passageway and surrender, be processed with fingerprints and mug shots.

>> chief best, the former president has continued coming out against the indictment. he's attacked the justice department, calling the special counsel a deranged person. this rhetoric is getting very heated amongst trump supporters. congressman andy biggs, for example, saying we have reached a, quote, war phase. we heard this from former arizona gubernatorial candidate kari lake at a gop convention over the weekend. >> if you want to get to president trump, you're going to have to go through me and through 75 million americans just like me. and i'm going to tell you, most of us are card-carrying members of the nra. >> chief, first, your reaction to this kind of rhetoric? how do you think law enforcement is assessing or monitoring the impact of that kind of rhetoric? >> i can guarantee you as a former police chief and having talked to chiefs as recent as

this morning, that everyone is aware of this type of, what i would call inflammatory language coming out there. certainly while there's a high level of security at the physical sites, on the internet the people are able to get on those chambers and everyone is at risk because it only takes a few people, one lone wolf or a couple of them to react and respond to that type of information that's coming out there and creating a threat for pretty much anyone anywhere. all agencies are aware of this and are taking the precautionary efforts and on high alert based on what we're hearing. >> i'm having flashbacks to what we heard before january 6th. and now, after what happened that day, more than a thousand people have been arrested for their acts on january 6th. do you think that will serve as a deterrent and help keep things in check for trump supporters coming for miami and beyond?

>> it may for some. as you know, we also deal with people who can have questionable mental states when taking in this information and how they process it. the effect can still be very detrimental, even with the arrests that we had and the convictions we had from the previous january 6th incident. >> ken, you report that advanced democracy, non-partisan, non-profit investigative group that monitors social media for extremist content has noted that there's no evidence at this point for, quote, plans for violence or large-scale disruptive activity. how do they make that assessment, and what will law enforcement be looking for online? ? go ahead, ken. >> this group in particular was very good at figuring out before january 6th who was talking about violence in these online chat groups and have been

monitoring those things since. they're saying they're not seeing the same level of organized planning for violence before january 6th. an open question is whether people learned their lesson and are not planning in the open. there's talk of a potential proud boys local chapter protest here. i think chief best is absolutely right, that the real concern is the lone wolf extremists, based on, for example, the man that drove the u-haul in the white house, the man that attacked nancy pelosi's house. those are the kind of people influenced by this extreme rhetoric that we're seeing that you were just playing. that's the kind of attack that's hard to predict or to defeat, ana. >> ken dilanian and chief carmen best, thank you both so much. up next on "ana cabrera reports," it's all about that base. new polling reveals what republican voters think about the former president's federal indictment. what voters are telling us when we come back. are llteing us whe

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politically donald trump is holding on to support and even getting some backup from some of his rivals for the presidential nomination. his former vice president mike pence called the indictment a sad day for the country saying, quote, the american people deserve to know the reasons for this unprecedented action. while florida governor ron desantis didn't mention trump by name this weekend, he rallied

against the fbi and what he called the weaponization of government. let's go to nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard who is in bedminster, new jersey, near trump's home. also with us former republican florida congressman carlos curbelo. trump's rivals don't seem to be hitting him too hard, vaughn. what are you hearing from the voters? >> i want you to listen to a few of the voters outside of bedminster. they give you some indication of where the two sides stand. take a listen. >> it's an embarrassment. the man is a pox on humanity. he makes the republican party look like idiots for following him. >> i'll vote for him again. >> why? >> i like everything he stands for. i know some people don't like his platform and some of his issues. he's looking out for the country. >> reporter: his main rival, you mentioned it, ana, ron desantis, suggesting why is donald trump

being charged when hillary clinton is not. that's ignoring some key differences and distinctions between the two investigations. at the time the fbi director said there was no clear willful and intentional mishandling of classified documents and no clear obstruction of justice as compared to donald trump here. yet, what you have heard from voters is a clear difference of understandings of these two cases and the stories behind them. >> i appreciate that fact collect on the fly, vaughn. that's one of the arguments we keep hearing in defense of donald trump. congressman, i want to take a listen to what former vice president mike pence had to say. >> we gather here in north carolina after a sad day for america. a former president of the united states facing an unprecedented indictment by a justice

department run by the current president of the united states. >> so you know what he's implying without saying things directly. sheer the thing, congressman. trump is now the competition. the gop is supposed to be the party of law and order. we're talking about national security implications, nuclear secrets here, information that could u.s. service members at risk. yet he's not using this indictment as an opportunity to confront trump. what's he waiting for? >> ana, these republicans are walking right into the trump trap. it is impossible to beat donald trump by following him. if you want to beat donald trump, even though you're going to have to take some risk at first, you're going to have to try to distinguish yourself. and what a perfect opportunity for mike pence to distinguish himself. he was also investigated by a special counsel. he was cleared because he did not act with intent to violate the law. it's a perfect opportunity for him, yet he won't take it.

why? because people are afraid of getting booed. they're afraid of taking risk early in this primary. but if they don't hurry up and pivot, donald trump is going to continue consolidating support. >> congressman, a new cbs news poll of likely republican primary voters shows that these federal indictment charges largely don't change their view of trump. 76% responded feeling this indictment was politically motivated. in fact, when asked who they would vote for today after the indictment came out, trump is still holding a commanding lead over the rest of the field. what's the big takeaway there? >> well, the big takeaway is that the other republican candidates aren't showing any leadership. i know there's some risk involved. but at some point you have to say look, what donald trump did was wrong. if it wasn't wrong, that will be demonstrated in court and he'll be cleared. but we do have to trust the process, and there's certainly plenty of evidence to at least understand that something inappropriate was done.

president trump's former attorney general bill barr came out yesterday and said, donald trump, there's a very strong case against him. the way he acted was totally inappropriate. as long as these candidates are too afraid to do this, donald trump is going to hold on to his big lead in this republican primary. >> bill barr called the evidence in this indictment against trump damning. still ahead on "ana cabrera reports," a miracle in the amazon. how four children including an 11-month-old baby survived alone for 40 days in the jungle after their plane crashed. a terrifying scene on interstate 95 when part of the highway outside of philadelphia collapses after a tanker fire. what investigators are learning as drivers are just happy to be alive. be ivale. mental health was much better, but i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment.

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it's a nightmare scenario for anyone on the road. this is interstate 95 outside of fif. this drone video showing the northbound section of this highway completely gone after a tanker truck carrying a petroleum-based product went up in flames. now repairs are expected to take months. nbc news correspondent emilie ikeda is in philadelphia. what is the latest on how this happened and getting that road

rebuilt? >> reporter: ana, a lot of unanswered questions remain. the governor describing the scene behind me as remarkably devastating, 500 tons of debris crumbling by the ground. crews are trying to clear out the debris and begin the rebuilding process, a massive undertaking that officials warn could take months. this morning, a disastrous scene of buckled concrete and steel on i-95 after this elevated northbound section of highway completely collapsed early sunday. when authorities say a tanker carrying 8,500 gallons of a petroleum-based product burst into flames below. >> i smelled smoke. smelled like gasoline actually. >> reporter: drivers navigating through massive plumes of smoke billowing into the skies, the highway shutting down in both directions.

>> we had a lot of heat and heavy fire underneath the undermass. >> i hit a bump, went down. my son went on the phone and saw that right where we were, it collapsed. so i started counting my lucky stars. >> reporter: no reported injuries or deaths though at least one vehicle remains trapped under the roadway. authorities are investigating the cause and have not released details on the tanker owner or its driver. >> once we get things moved -- >> reporter: i-95 runs from florida all the way to maine. this heavily trafficked urban section is critical, typically carrying 160,000 vehicles a day. pennsylvania governor josh shapiro says repairs will begin immediately but could take months. >> transportation secretary pete buttigieg has made it clear that

whatever resource also be needed to rebuild i-95 and to do so in a safe and expeditious manner would be provided to us. >> reporter: this devastating incident is reminiscent of an interstate collapse that happened in the atlanta area in 2017. it took crews there about six weeks to rebuild that roadway, snarling traffic. already this morning in the philadelphia area we're seeing simple pacts. officials are trying to beef up train capacity, also launching a new website, pa.gov/i95update, all in an attempt to alleviate congestion that will likely linger for many weeks. >> incredible nobody died in this. thank you very much, emilie ikeda. ted kaczynski died in federal prison over the weekend. the associated press reports that the 81-year-old died by suicide. that was according to four people familiar with the matter. kaczynski was serving a life

sentence for a bombing spree that lasted 17 years across the country, killing three people and injuring dozens of others before his arrest in 1996. next on "ana cabrera reports," four children surviving 40 days in thejungle. we're live in colombia with the miraculous story of survival in the amazon after a plane crash. plus, another u.s. citizen now detained in russia. his vehement denial of the charges from a moscow courtroom. . . and now she's got myplan. the game changing new plan that lets her pick exactly what she wants and save on every perk. sadie's getting her plan ready for a big trip. travel pass, on. nice iphone 14 pro! cute couple. trips don't last forever. neither does summer love. so, sadie's moving on. apple music? check. introducing myplan. the first and only unlimited plan to give you exactly what you want, so you only pay for what you need. act now and get iphone 14 pro on us when you switch. it's your verizon.

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another u.s. citizen has been detained in russia. michael travis leake is being held on drug dealing charges. russian tv published this video showing what appears to be leake behind bars in a russian courtroom. we don't know when this video was recorded. leake is a musician. he denies any wrongdoing. joining us is nbc's chief international correspondent keir simmons. what more are you learning about the detention of michael travis leake? >> reporter: it's a little bit mysterious, honestly. there was some video posted by russian television alleging to show leake being arrested. it's not clear if it is travis leake. there is the video of him in the moscow court. we don't know when that took place. what we're hearing from the

moscow court service is he's accused of drug dealing charges which would bring a sentence of around 12 years. then, we also have seen a video on russian television that appears to show travis leake insisting that he is innocent. take a look. >> i have been formally accused about nothing. i don't know why i'm here. i am not admitting to any guilt, and i do not believe that i've done what i'm accused because i don't know what i'm accused of. >> reporter: again, we don't know when that video was recorded. it's not dealer whether he was under duress at the time that video was recorded. it's, again, a difficult thing to make sense of. plainly the u.s. government would be trying to get access to him in prison. so far the state department telling nbc news that that is what they would attempt to do, consider access immediately, but

it's not certain whether or not that's been achieved. i think overall, of course, ana, the big question here is whether what we are now seeing is some kind of a strategic policy by president putin to effectively gather american hostages. russia, of course, would say no, these are u.s. citizens who are gone afoul of russian law and treated as such. we have evan gersing vits of the "wall street journal" arrested earlier this year, paul whelan, and wnba star brittney griner exchanged for a russian arms dealer. >> keir simmons, thank you very much. to an absolutely incredible story of survival. deep in the amazon jungle, we're learning new details, harrowing details about how four siblings survived in the jungle after being missing for 40 days. the oldest is just 14, the

youngest not even a year old. they were traveling with their mother and two other adults when their plane went down in the amazon on may 1st. the three adults in the crash died. the children survived by eating flowers, seeds and jungle fruit. i want to go live to bogota, colombia and raphael pineda. the hospital behind you is where these rescued children are recovering. what more can you tell us about this unbelievable survival story? >> reporter: this is a miracle, ana. they'll be okay. that's what the doctors say. they're not talking so much. they want them to rest. they're dehydrated, very weak. so weak that the oldest daughter told her grandfather that she was seeing kind of lights, they have to stop, they have to stop because they began walking after

staying four days next to the plane. they realized or they thought that they were not going to be rescued, so they began walking, looking for a water creek that would take them to a bigger river. that didn't happen. so they began walking. now, what they have for the baby, a bottle of milk, that's it. they have water. they have soda and something called farinia which is like a powder. so they can eat the powder, part of their everyday diet. they began walking and walking. in the meanwhile, eight days later after the plane crash, the special forces found the plane and began looking for the kids. now, they say that the jungle is so thick, so thick that they could not reach them, and they began circling around. this is what the general says.

he told me, just imagine being in the middle of miami but you are in the jungle, and to start looking for them. they found diapers, they found scissors, they found the footprints, and they began circling down to about a 20-mile square miles. they were so weak. there were 200 special forces with volunteers, indigenous people. when they found them, they were weak, they were waiting and leslie, the 13-year-old girl had the baby on her arms. next to her there was a boy. and then there was the other girl, and that was a miracle. now, the special forces of peter sanchez now is going to be the godfather of the small 1-year-old girl. >> just so amazing, those

details are chilling. thank you so much forgiving us that update, raphael poveda. up next on "ana cabrera reports," retribution. the new investigations house republicans are promising after the former president's federal indictment. we have more ahead as we wait to see former president trump depart his bedminster club for arraignment in miami court tomorrow. we're live in both states. stay with us. n thbo states. stay with us pain was keeping me off my game.

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welcome back, we are keeping a close eye on new jersey where former president trump is set to leave later this morning to head to florida for his arraignment tomorrow, and one group of supporters still firmly in his corner appear to be house republicans who have promised more investigations into this investigation. here's oversight committee chairman jim jordan this weekend. >> this is the most political thing i have ever seen. the people who are doing it is the administration, the justice department from his opponent in the upcoming presidential election. >> are you going to call jack smith to testify? are you going to subpoena him? >> we've already asked for -- >> nbc's ali vitali joins us now. what else are you hearing from republicans? >> you watched the part of that interview with congressman jim jordan who leads the judiciary

committee. we've seen him in recent days. he is asking the doj for more information about what the special counsel has been able to do here and what the parameters are of his ability to investigate the former president is. we know that a deadline for that information, the parameters piece that jordan asked for is something that he want back from doj by next week, though it's unclear whether or not he'll get it. we've seen the way house republicans specifically have almost mobilized in the aftermath of past indictments of the former president, specifically the one in manhattan. we saw them try to call before them the manhattan district attorney alvin bragg as well as others involved in that investigation. they have that ability with varying degrees of success, not getting bragg but getting other officials they wanted information from. they did that with the backing of speaker kevin mccarthy, i imagine they will continue to have the backing of the speaker. what we've seen throughout house leadership, this is with the exception of the two top senate

republican leaders, but what we've seen by and large is republicans saying that this is an example of politicization of government agencies against the former president and now we watch to see what they do about it from an oversight perspective. >> we know you'll keep us posted. let's bring in former federal prosecutor and former aide to special counsel robert mueller, michael zeldin. we keep hearing from trump and his supporters pointing to hillary clinton, trying to compare this case to hers, noting she never faced criminal charges. we've talked about this before. explain why these cases are so vastly different. >> in hillary clinton's case, the emails that were missing or the ones that were identified at the time that she possessed them did not have classification markings on them. they after the fact turned out

to have some classification requirements, but in the time of her possession of them, there was no knowledge of their classified status. in the trump case, they were clearly classified. they were marked as classified, and he resisted efforts, including a grand jury subpoena to return them, so there's some similarities, but i don't think they are similar enough to say she should have been indicted and he shouldn't have been indicted and vice versa. >> and some of the evidence in this indictment comes from one of trump's own lawyers who a judge green lighted to give testimony to the grand jury, we learned about conversations that trump had with his lawyer, as the national archives were to get their records back. for example, on page 21 of this indictment, investigators are citing trump telling his lawyers, quote, i don't want nick looking through my boxes. what happens if we just don't respond at all or don't play ball with them? wouldn't it be better if we just told them we didn't have anything here?

those are just a few examples in this indictment, michael. how crucial is this kind of evidence? >> corcoran is the attorney that we're speaking of is a key witness in this case, both as to the obstruction counts and as to the false statements counts. his testimony, which we have received, the government has received by way of the breaching of the attorney/client privilege under the crime fraud exception will be the most critical evidence i think in those aspects of the indictment. what will be interesting, anna is to see whether his new lawyers when he gets that team together will try to keep that evidence out of the trial. it's a long, uphill climb to do that, but i think that it behooves them to try, of course. corcoran convicts trump, i think, more than any other witness in the case we've seen so far. >> you noted how it's pretty

unusual for a lawyer to reveal personal conversations with their clients. we've all heard of the attorney/client privilege. explain why attorney/client privilege does not apply in this case. >> this is the crime fraud exception to attorney/client privilege, so there are certain exceptions to the attorney/client privilege, and one is when your lawyer is part of a conspiracy or a criminal venture or is being used to facilitate a criminal venture, and here the allegation is that corcoran sort of unwittingly was part of this obstruction scheme when he searched the storage room for documents, was told that was 100% universe of the documents, which was not true, and then caused a false certification to the government to be made saying we completed our search of all documents and everything you have now is what's there.

that's the judge who oversees the grand jury in d.c. said is wrong, it's part of a criminal enterprise, and corcoran will be required to testify and his notes were turned over and his audiotapes were turned over to the prosecutors. >> michael zeldin as always i really appreciate your insights and you bringing that expertise to the conversation. great to see you, thank you. >> thanks, ana. that's going to do it for us today. thank you for joining us. i'll see you back here tomorrow, same time, same place, we'll have special coverage. i'll be joining josé diaz-balart in miami as we cover the former president's arraignment. until then, reporting from new york, i'm ana cabrera, josé diaz-balart picks up our coverage right now. and good morning, it's 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific, i'm josé diaz-balart. any minute now former president donald trump expected to leave bedminster, new jersey, and head to florida for his arraignment on federal charges tomorrow in miami. there you see part of the motorcade there