in good standing is supposed to do. you can quibble another day about how he did it with the mueller report, but it's striking people like mr. barr are speaking out knowledgeably as they gather evidence and this is the beginning, not the end. there may be more like this from people who have their own credibilities or followings on the right, a sign that things are changing, as emphasized, the defendant has rights and he's presumed innocent. tomorrow will be a busy news day. we have our special coverage throughout the afternoon. all of us will be here, and 8:00 p.m. eastern, rachel leads the recap coverage we do on big news nights like that. we hope you keep it locked on msnbc day and night as your schedule allows and keep it locked right now. "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> if even half of it is true, then he's toast. he's not a victim here. he was totally wrong.

>> that comment from his former attorney general really got under trump's orange tinted skin as he prepares for tomorrow's historic arraignment. the first former president to face federal charges and the possibility of prison time. also tonight, the extreme denialism of trump defenders. what they get totally wrong about the presidential records act, how declassification works, and the biden and hillary clinton false equivalencies. >> and we begin tonight with donald trump's reverse snow bird commute to florida. the twice impeached, twice indited liable for sexual abuse president arrived today in miami, and is spending the night at his doral resort as he awaits his unprecedented arraignment tomorrow. he faces 37 felony counts of illegally hoarding classified documents and obstructing the justice department's efforts to get them back. while this is his second indictment, this one carries the very serious prospect of

significant prison time. he and his personal valet and alleged co-conspirator will appear together as they're arraigned. as to who will be representing trump, that is still up in the air. his legal defense is a chaotic mess, as we speak, it's unclear if he has full legal representation. what we do know at this hour is todd blanch, a former federal prosecutor who represents trump in the manhattan d.a. case, will be by his side, even though he has not passed the bar in florida. christopher keys, the former florida solicitor general, who was originally sidelined back in september of 2022 because according to reports he told trump that much of this could have been avoided if trump and his team had simply taken a more cooperative stance with the department of justice, could also be in the courtroom. it's unclear if trump has been able to hire local counsel. a source tells nbc news at least one prominent figure in miami has turned him down.

i wonder why. could it be that he has a habit of not paying his lawyers or he doesn't take advice? a source with direct knowledge tells nbc news that the judge who will oversee trump's preliminary hearing will be magistrate judge john goodman. judge aileen cannon is still slated to oversee the trial unless she recuses herself. her earlier handling of this case was universally slammed as prejudicial and outside judicial norms by the court of appeals in a bipartisan slew of former federal prosecutors and judges. it is not her appointment to the bench by trump that's at issue. it's her belief the former president should be held to a different standard of law. while her impartiality is under serious question. own lee she can decide if she'll recuse herself, and if past is prologue, the is no guarantee she'll do the right thing. meanwhile, trump and his republican allies have waged a full blown war on the department of just sxs the fbi. with zero sense of irony, trump accused jack smith of being

deranged and repeatedly without any evidence that he, trump, is the target of a political persecution. he also summoned yet another angry mob to miami to protest his indictment. today, even after he and his supporters accused the justice department of being weaponized against him, trump vowed to appoint a politically motivated special prosecutor to investigate everything related to president biden, his family, and basically everyone else he wants if he's elected to a second term. donald trump, who views winning the election as his best chance for evading accountability and prison time, told his pal and fellow floridian convicted felon roger stone that there is no way he would drop out of the race. >> so is there any circumstances under which you could see yourself dropping out of the 2024 presidential election? >> no, none whatsoever. >> from trump's doral resort in miami is nbc news national correspondent gabe gutierrez. i definitely want to hear about

the security preparations for tomorrow and what else you're seeing and hearing in miami. >> reporter: hi there, joy. yes, the former president ended up coming here to doral just several hours ago. he was greeted here by a few dozen supporters, as he went inside, and joy, over the past hour or so, he has been defiant in several radio interviews. he's been conducting with radio stations in iowa. he said several things and mentioned some of them. vowing to appoint a special counsel to investigate the bidens and also calling his former attorney general bill barr a coward. of course, barr over the last several days, yesterday in an interview, saying that the indictment against the former president was considerably strong. local authorities here in miami today, they did describe how they're preparing for this. and the intense security measures that are under way, and that there will be enough resources to potentially handle thousands of people, more than 5,000 potentially, tomorrow in

downtown miami. however, joy, we have no indication that that many people plan to show up. this is just a precaution. you recall that during the manhattan indictment two months ago, there were calls for large scale protests that never materialized. but again, the former president is here, and there are still lots of questions about tomorrow's arraignment, including which if any local counsel will actually represent him. that has still not been announced. as for tomorrow, we expect the former president to leave doral, it's possible we might not see him, as he might go into the federal courthouse downtown underground. then once he is arraigned, he enters his plea, he will then head back to new jersey where he plans to hold a speech and fund-raiser tomorrow. so joy, still a lot of unanswered questions about how this will all go down tomorrow. the former president here in doral, florida, as he awaits his unprecedented arraignment tomorrow, joy. >> wow, what a time to be alive.

nbc's gabe gutierrez in miami. stay safe. thank you very much. join me is jill banks who served as an assistant watergate prosecutor. and former federal prosecutor paul butler, who is a professor at georgetown school of law. let's start with representation. if donald trump does not have a florida barred attorney with him in court, is that a problem? does he need to find one first? could it delay anything? >> it shouldn't delay. in most cases you have to be a member of the actual district bar where you're representing someone who is being prosecuted. but for a first appearance, most judges will allow another attorney to stand in for that person. >> yeah, okay, so let's talk about this judge. i'm going to bring jill in first. let me play you what former attorney general eric holder had to say about judge aileen cannon. >> i'm concerned about her handling this case. based on what she did in the earlier phases of this matter,

i'm not sure she has the legal acumen to be a judge in charge of such an important case. >> jill wine banks, 28 u.s. code 455-a states a judge shall disqualify himself or herself in any proceeding in which his or her impartiality might reasonably be questioned. it is her choice whether she will do that. and my understanding is or reporting from slate is special counsel jack smith does have the option, he can request a different judge. and the 11th circuit precedent allows reassignment when the presiding judge appears unable to put previous views and findings aside. that feels like it fits judge i aileen cannon to a tee. your thoughts? >> i think you have set it up exactly the way it is. it is a right for the prosecution to ask for a removal of the judge and appointment of

a new one. from everything i have heard, it seems very unlikely that the special counsel is likely to do that for a variety of reasons. and you know, i may be polly ana, but i believe in the jury system, and i go back to the manafort trial where a very strong trump supporter said i believe everything that trump says, but i was sworn as a juror to vote by evidence in the courtroom. and based on that, i voted to convict manafort on every single count. and i do believe jurors take very seriously their obligation to go on the evidence in the courtroom. and that the case here as laid out in the indictment is so strong, is so clear, is so convincing that there will be a conviction based on the evidence, no matter who the judge is. the thing that we have to worry about is a directed verdict where the judge could take it

away before the jury votes, and that isn't appealable. that is a frightening thing. she also, of course, can delay, and that would cause severe harm given the upcoming primaries and general election. so there are some things she can do that are extremely dangerous and harmful to justice, to our rule of law. that's what we have to watch out for. >> i hadn't even thought about the directed verdict and now i'm more terrified. the thing about it, donald trump is presumed innocent until proven guilty, but the people of the united states, because it's the people versus donald trump, the people also have a right to a fair trial. i can't imagine that the people of the united states with our national security at stake, can get a fair trial in front of this judge. as a prosecutor, if you were in the justice department's place, would you go to the 11th circuit and try to get her pushed off the case? >> i absolutely will. it's not just that she was reversed twice in two months. it's why she was reversed.

she was reversed, the courts said, because she had no jurisdiction. what that means is under the law, she had no business deciding some of the things that she actually decided. the court of appeals also said that she treated the president differently than she would other criminal defendants or in that case, people who were the subject of search warrants, and she admitted that in her opinion. the court of appeals said that's not how the rule of law works. the other concern is that we know from the indictment that trump's defense is not going to depend on the facts because the facts are very incriminating. as jill said, he's going to look to the judge to do things like limit the kind of evidence that can be presented. he's going to talk about attorney/client privilege and try to delay the trial until after the election. those would all be decisions that judge cannon makes. >> and when you say the evidence from attorney/client, he would try to use attorney/client

privilege and hide behind it, that's because the bulk of the evidence comes from his own lawyer. the thing that blew my mind last week when alex wagner updated me on this, evan corcoran still represents donald trump. he's still his lawyer, but his whole fate, donald trump's, rests in the hands of the lawyer. the lawyer took contemporaneous notes, much as michael cohen, his former lawyer, is a lot of the reason he's indicted in new york. in this case, it is the testimony from the lawyer. >> there would be a big issue, something called the law of the case which suggests that judge cannon should follow the lead of the chief judge in the district of columbia, who said that attorney/client privilege had been breached when trump tried to use corcoran to commit crimes. again, that's a decision that judge cannon would ultimately have to make. the concern is even if she makes an egregious error of law, if trump prevails, that is he's

found not guilty, the government can't appeal. >> that is -- it just seems to me, it's so balanced -- imbalanced, jill wine banks. not only against the people of the united states, whose national security was put at risk by this man, but also against walt nauta. trump can play all kinds of games with attorney/client privilege. walt nauta cannot. first, his lawyers are paid for by trump's pac. so he's at trump's mercy in terms of he would have probably have to have a public defender. he still works for trump. is still his valet. and it is really not arguable that he lied to the fbi. first of all, let's put up what he's facing. one count of conspiracy to obstruct justice, one count of corruptly concealing a document or record, one count of concealing a document in a federal investigation. one count of scheme to conceal, and he shares those with trump, maximum sentences there, 25 years kunlbined.

one count of false statements to the fbi, five years. let me just read you what he did. he is interviewed by the fbi, jill wine banks. the question from the fbi, in knowing that we're trying to track the life of these boxes of classified material, and where they could have been kept and stored and all that kind of stuff, nauta, question, do you have any information that could, that would, that could help us understand where they were kept, how they were kept, where they were secured, where they were locked, were they locked, something that makes the intelligence community feel better? >> nauta, i wish i could tell you, i don't know, i don't know, i don't know. here's what he actually did, and there are tapes of him doing it. between may 23 and june 22nd, 2022, before the attorney corcoran was allowed to review trump's bosses, nauta at trump's direction, moved 64 boxes from the storage room to trump's residence and brought to the storage room only 30 boxes. neither trump nor nauta informed trump's attorney corcoran, then

he wanted corcoran to lie. whatever happens to trump, nauta is cooked. >> well, i think they are both cooked. as bill barr said, trump is toast. he is. there's no question that the case laid out, including, i mean, everyone listening to this show should read the indictment. it's an easy read. it includes pictures. you have a picture of a ballroom where the documents are on a stage. you have his bathroom with its chandelier and its boxes of documents. i love the gift that's going around saying, bed, bath, and beyond reasonable doubt. which is the bathroom. i mean, it's such good evidence that no jury can look away from that. and i think that, you know, judge cannon is a danger. there is a risk. and she, as attorney general holder said, she doesn't have the intellectual capacity to handle this case. but she also cannot be a complete idiot, and she knows

the 11th circuit is watching her. and they reamed her in the two times they reversed her. it wasn't just a, you made a small mistake. it's, you are an idwrt. i think she will be careful. i wish she wasn't the judge. i kind of agree with paul that if i were making the decision, what's to lose? you're going to make her angry if the court doesn't allow her to recuse and lets her stay? well, yeah, you will. but she can't be any worse than she has been, so yes, i probably would ask for a removal and a transfer to a different court. where you had a fair chance for the people. >> yeah. and paul, i guess the final question would be then, if she somehow interrupts what even william barr, who is the biggest trump sycophant, who literally lied about the mueller report so thoroughly that republicans who were even normal, sane republicans, john sununu, governor sununu was on our air

the other day saying he completely doesn't believe anything about the mueller report. that's based on the summary by barr. barr made it look like those 33 people who were indicted and convicted don't even exist. nothing happens with russia, according to even sane republicans. that how thorough bill barr was in being a lackey to trump, but even he says trump is going to be cooked here. if this judge undoes that, is there any sanction against her possible? >> no, she's got a lifetime appointment. and again, she seems to have been looking at trump's base when she made her earlier decision. so it certainly is right that the court of public opinion and most lawyers would totally disagree if she continues to show all of this deference to former president trump. but legally, she wouldn't have any consequences. there could be intermediate motions about whether evidence is admissible or not that could go up to the court of appeals, but once the jury decides this verdict -- >> it's done. >> if the jury acquits former

president trump, game over. >> you see, it just -- the drama never ends. you think it's done and it's never done. that's why wi need these smart lawyers to talk us through it. jill wine banks and paul butler, thank you. up next on "the reidout," the incredibly dangerous rhetoric from the right in response to trump's indictment. "the reidout" continues after this. - here we go. - remember, mom's a kayak denier, so please don't bring it up. - bring what up? kayak? - excuse me? do the research, todd.

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federal and local officials in miami are on alert ahead of

donald trump's appearance in court tomorrow. officials are monitoring right wing forums for threats of violence. but some of the most violent rhetoric we have heard following this indictment isn't coming from the dark corners of the web, it's coming from sitting members of congress and leading voices in the republican party. over the weekend, congressman andy biggs of arizona wrote on twitter that we have reached a war phase, eye for an eye. while don jr.'s fiancee kimberly kill guilfoyle posted on trump, retribution is coming. and kari lake, she said this at georgia's republican state convention. >> if you want to get to president trump, you're going to have to go through me and you're going to have to go through 75 million americans just like me. and i'm going to tell you, yep. most of us are card carrying members of the nra.

>> huh. not threatening at all. trump supporters have heard these calls loud and clear. echoing this war like language online in an eerily similar way to what we saw leading up to the january 6th insurrection. users on right wing messaging boards talked about buying ammo and called for blood. another said maga will make waco look like a tea party. some posted threats against attorney general merrick garland and other officials. all while a local chapter of the proud boys is reportedly planning a rally outside the federal courthouse tomorrow, which donald trump is, of course, egging on. writing on his wanna be twitter account, see you in miami on tuesday. joining me now is peter strzok, former fbi counterintelligence agent. good to have you here in person. how concerned are you? donald trump is doing a january 6th in terms of his lead-up to tomorrow? >> i'm really concerned. look, in the first instance, we want political leaders to be calming tensions. we want them to tell their followers to stay peaceful,

don't engage in violence. if they're not going to try to turn it down, at a minimum, just don't say anything about it. what we have is people exacerbating tensions. trump going out and telling at campaign rallies, telling his followers they're not at me, they're after you and i'm the only thing standing in the way of the government getting after you. whether it's that, whether it's him playing the music from the january 6th choir at his campaign rallies you see a pattern of behavior where they're actively almost inciting violence. i'm reminded just recently that trump over the weekend took to truth social and not only was attacking jack smith, the special counsel, but was naming his wife as well. >> yes, he was. >> i can tell you personally when i have been named by the president, there's immediately a spike in threats and threats of violence from his followers. it's very clear what he's trying to do. his followers know exactly what he's trying to do and it's concerning giving the tensions coming down the pike. >> and then miami, there is a

proud boys contingent that exists in south florida. they're planning a rally tomorrow. i don't know why seditious conspiracy convictions for their leaders wouldn't change their attitudes toward things but it doesn't seem at least as of now that it has. how much are you concerned about organized violence by organizations like the proud boys and the oath keepers? >> certainly, there is the potential for violence both out of organized groupers, i would hope some of the convictions coming out of january 6th would serf as a deterrent, but it doesn't include all individuals who might be motivated toward violence. you might remember the attack on the fbi field office in cincinnati, literally days after the search at mar-a-lago. middle ohio, nothing to do with the search done in florida, but what that means is certainly, i expect fully that law enforcement in the miami area, federal law enforcement, to state and local officials, will be very prepared to have a safe courthouse. >> also, that fbi offices all around the country have to be on alert.

as you said with cincinnati, it really could be anywhere. it could be one lone person who decides they're going to be a vanguard for trump somewhere else. >> that's right. to be clear, the majority of trump supporters at the end of the day are law-abiding. they're not going to take up arms and try to attack the fbi. but what you worry about is the fringe. a tenth of 1% amongst tens of millions of followers is still a potentially significant number. >> for kari lake to remind them they have guns at home, first, we know a lot have guns, but the idea she's essentially -- what does that mean other than a threat? she has no government job, but it's dangerous what she said. for people like the andy biggs and the members of congress, some of whom might have security clearances of their own, if they're making threats, should they keep their security clearances? >> i think they have access by virtue of their election to congress. that's different from kari lake, she doesn't have clearance, but the issue is at the end of the day, i'm not convinced any of these national political figures necessarily have a goal of violence. they is a goal of getting tv

time on far right media. this is exactly the kind of thing that gets kari lake on oan, on newsmax, on other places. that's the goal, and the unfortunate part is a lot of people listening have no idea that's the goal. they hear it, they believe it, and you know, god forbid one of them decides to take action. >> and none of them have read the indictment. let me play chris christie. i want to talk about the substance of what trump is alleged to have done. here's chris christie talking about not trump but his kids. >> the grift from this family is breathtaking. it's breathtaking. jared kushner and ivanka kushner walk out of the white house and months later get $2 billion from the saudis. $2 billion from the saudis. you think it's because he's some kind of investing genius? or do you think it's because he was sitting next to the president of the united states for four years doing favors for the saudis? >> now, you know, there's no

evidence that these two jared and ivanka or jared kushner specifically had access to classified material, but he could have. it's in a bathroom, in a balroom, spilling on the floor. we have no idea who had access to it, no idea why jared kushner got all that money from the saudis. i played that because the think that must keep you awake more than me is what happened to the actual documents, who saw them. i read over the weekend, this "new york times" terrifying piece, captured killed or compromised. cia admits to losing dozens of informants. the message in an unusual top secret cable said the cia's counterintelligence mission center has looked at dozens of cases in the last several years involving foreign informants who have been killed, arrested or most likely compromised. again, not saying anything to do with trump, but when i hear that story and read this indictment, i worry. do you? >> i do. i need to be careful not to confirm or deny any particular reporting but it's absolutely concerning as a national

security professional. who had access to that information? we know two chinese nationals were arrested attempting to gain access to mar-a-lago. we know someone pretending to be an heir to the rothchild fortune made their way onto mar-a-lago successfully. essentially at the end of the day, it's private country club where there isn't screening. for any foreign intelligence services, the russians, the chinese, the iranians it's a priority target. when you know it's being targeted and we turn around and have seen photographs of this ballroom, the bathroom, with boxes of documents knocked over, there's a real concern about not only what did trump do with it, but even when he wasn't doing anything with it, what else was being done? >> there were literally weddings over there. there was no control over the guest list, and he has things in the open where anyone can see them, plus, waving papers around which we don't even know what they were. the last thing, do you think the things that were not included in the 37 counts could be even worse?

because what was described there was terrifying? >> we know there are 31 counts for documents within the indictment, and we know based on the inventory from doy and the fbi, there are at least 13 top secret documents which were not charged. the question is when you have 31, why not 13 more? in my mind, the most logical explanation are the things and information in the 13 uncharged documents are so sensitive, so significant that the components of the intelligence community who own that information told doj, look, this is too sensitive. this is too valuable a source or method. you can't use it. again, if it's that sensitive, what on earth was trump doing with that material? >> at home. and i think for people who like trump, just ask yourself why would any ex-president have a right to our nuclear secrets? there isn't a good explanation for that. hopefully people will read the indictment. scaring is caring, that's what we say. peter strzok, thank you. coming up, trump's defenders enchaj in an extreme form of

denialism. what they're getting wrong about how declassification works and trump's obstruction. we'll be right back. get help reaching your goals with j.p. morgan wealth plan, a new tool in the chase mobile® app. use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today... could help put them within reach. from your first big move to retiring poolside and the other goals along the way wealth plan can help get you there. j.p. morgan wealth management.

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maisha: shared leadership has to do with... michael: acknowledging parents as equal partners. narrator: california's community schools. grant: community schools lift the voices of folks that have traditionally not been heard whether they're parents, students, community groups. john: it's shared decision-making with parents. they're saying that these are the priorities that they want to see for their kids. wendy: it allows us to create the school that our students deserve. rafael: community schools are innovative, and they're working. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education. just as remarkable as the fact that a former president of the united states will be arraigned tomorrow on federal charges, are the lengths which those on the right are going to defend trump and to try to change the narrative.

>> joe biden wants to give donald trump a death sentence for documents. he's facing hundreds of years for mishandling documents, and they want him to die in jail. yet, hillary clinton is standing free today. >> this has been the death of democracy in so many ways. this is the ultimate weaponization of our government by the party that is in power. >> but in reality, biden's far left doj, they probably don't care. they just want to get trump at any cost. >> this is as political as it gets. and frankly, it's part of a pattern. >> okay, now i understand that on earth two, alternative facts reign supreme, but we live here in the real world, where facts actually matter. it is not an accident that his defenders are spending so little time responding to the actual substance of the indictment, because there doesn't appear to be a credible defense. when so many have been indicted for so much less. let's take a moment to compare the alternative facts to the

actual facts. trump's lawyers claim that any classified documents that ended up at mar-a-lago was a result of accidental packing by white house and gsa staff. but trump time and time again has insisted that he did in fact take the documents, which matches what the indictment states about his personal involvement. trump and his allies claim the presidential records act gives him the right to take any documents he wanted when he left the white house. but the facts are that nowhere in the presidential records act does it allow a departing president to take any government document as his own personal mementos. and you don't have to take it from me. just listen to trump's former very lawyer attorney general yesterday. >> they're the government's documents, they're not his personal records. battle plans for an attack on another country or defense department documents about our

capabilities are in no universe donald j. trump's personal documents. >> and that brings us to the next alternative fact. trump's claim that he could not have mishandled classified documents because he declassified them all upon leaving the white house. except in reality, not only is there no evidence of that, but the indictment describes a recording of trump after he left office allegedly waving around a classified document regarding a u.s. military plan for attacking a foreign country and saying, see, as president, i could have declassified it. now i can't, you know, but this is still a secret. while some of this lawyers continue to claim the boxes were just fipped with newspaper clippings and pictures, the facts are the highly classified documents including nuclear weapons of foreign countries, military capabilities of foreign countries and the united states, military attacks by a foreign country, military activities of

foreign countries and the military contingency planning of the united states. and while we continue to hear that it was no big deal because mar-a-lago is a veritable ft. knox with the documents safely stored away under lock and key, the truth is for some time, those documents were left out in a ballroom, on a ballroom stage and in a bathroom stacked next to a toilet and a shower. and that does not even account for all the facts laid out about trump's cat and mouse game efforts to prevent those documents from being returned to the federal government. trump and his allies say he was cooperating fully with the fbi, but the indictment shows that after trying to convince his own lawyers to respond to the subpoena by declaring that all the documents were returned when they had not been, he used his willing aide, walt nauta, to remove box after box after box from the storage room before his lawyer could look through them. on may 24, 2022, nauta removed

three boxes. six days later, he removed approximately 50 more boxes and on june 1st, the day before trump's lawyer began his search of the boxes, nauta removed 11 more. so to recap, trump admitted to taking the documents on live tv, on cnn and on fox. as the documents were related to national defense, not only were they not covered under the presidential records act, but it did not matter whether or not they were classified to make it illegal for trump to have them. and even with that, trump admitted that they were not declassified. the documents were strewn about in unsecure locations like ballrooms and bathrooms. and when the time came to actually return the documents under the direction of a subpoena, he tried to hide the documents from both the doj and from his own lawyers. so republicans continue to say there's nothing to see here, they're actually taking a page out of the playbook from the last republican president, who was facing a federal indictment.

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illegal that even bill barr is condemning him. >> i was shocked by the degree of sensitivity of these documents and how many they were, frankly. if even half of it is true, he's toast. it's a pretty -- it's a very detailed indictment. and it's very, very damning. and this idea of presenting trump as a victim here, a victim of a witch hunt, is ridiculous. >> he's a bad guy. but lots of republicans are rallying behind trump anyway. as writer david frum notes, the republican party has spent so much time enabling a labyrinth of lies, the irrr as lost and trapped in the labyrinths as the people they lured into it. with tens of millions of conservative voters believing that labyrinth of lies as their political home. that explains how the people who repeated trump's calls for hillary clinton to be locked up over her emails also think trump is the victim of a witch hunt. joining me is george conway, conservative attorney and contributing columnist for "the

washington post." george, i want to play you an oldie but a goody from 2016. see if you remember it. >> she sent vast amounts of classified information including information classified as top secret. top secret. okay. >> she should be locked up. tell you right now. what she's done. what she's done, she altto be ashamed of herself. >> lock her up is right. >> no one will be above the law. >> except trump. how do the same people who lock her up, that was the whole thing, and now they're like, it's fine. he had the nuclear secrets. >> if it weren't sad, it would be funny. he just -- he can't even compare these cases. you cannot compare these cases. she didn't take any classified documents. the classified materials in the

emails were traced of information that they were maybe discussing in the emails and the vast bulk of them didn't have that. it wasn't like she was trying to squirrel this stuff away. an important point, too, is what trump is being charged with here isn't actually just possessing the documents. if he had given the documents back, i guess it was may, was it may of 2021, when they first started knocking on the door, we wouldn't be here right now. >> and the thing of it is so i'm hearing republicans say, well, everyone is being treated differently. hillary clinton was -- >> treated differently because she didn't do what trump did. it's that simple. >> despite that, she was investigated for a full calendar year. >> and she cooperated. >> the doj hounded her for a year. >> it's crazy. >> we got you defending hillary clinton. >> look what the woke mob has done to me. >> the reality is, hillary

clinton was investigated by the doj. edward snowden went to jail or would have gone to jail. he evaded arrest by defecting to russiana. reality winner, pleaded guilty, sentenced to five years. chelsea manning, 35 year sentence. david petraeus, war hero, narrowly missed being indictmented on the same law, the espionage act. >> gave the documents to his girlfriend. >> and had to cop a plea. every who does this gets indicted unless they give the stuff back. >> and trump -- trump was squirreling the stuff -- it took him a year and a half, anybody else, to do this. >> let's talk about the political incidents here, i want to play a couple of republicans score running for president, and this is how they are responding to the trump indictment. hears ron desantis and tim scott. >> i think there needs to be one standard of justice in this

country. let's enforce it on everybody, and make sure we all know the rules. we can't have one faction of society weaponizing the power of the state against factions doesn't like. >> what we've seen over the last several years is the weaponization of the department of justice against the former president. you don't have to be a republican to see justice and want to fix it. >> you can't have one faction of society weaponizing the power of the state against factions it doesn't like, from the government who was weaponizing the power of the state of florida against trans people, black people, and disney. >> it's mind-boggling. have these people read the indictment? i mean, you could pick any page on that, in that document, and basically, you have more than enough to prove guilt on a number of counts beyond a reasonable doubt. and this goes along page after page, we never see evidence like this in an indictment. >> no. >> audiobook hoardings, lawyers

's audio recordings of the recollection, trump asking them about the states. and it's just -- photographs. and the fact of the matter is, this is the most simple fact. i mean, this is why i thought he was right back in august, they executed the search warrant, and lo and behold, they came up with documents. i mean, it's like a drug buy and bust on a street corner in the city. it's like, you just have to say, okay, they they were, drugs in his possession, boom -- that's all. >> why do you suppose that more republicans don't take the easy door out, which is that trump is a liability, as mitch mcconnell is very clear about, they could simply let this play out, say nothing, and be rid of him. >> everybody wants -- these people all want him to be hit by a bus, when his golf court is in the hazard or something. but they don't want to have

their fingerprints on them. they don't want to be blamed for it. and the classic example, as you mentioned, mitch mcconnell. mitch mcconnell, you know, he had this theory, that she couldn't hold a trial for somebody who did something while he was president, or who was impeached while president. and then, he said after he voted on that technically false, legal claim, he said, we all came along in this country. it was like the greatest thing he ever said. and here we are. and now, you should be saying, see, that's what i was saying. that's what i meant. >> and if he broke the law, he should be treated like any other american, or any other person who did -- >> which i thought as a conservative, that was our point, or one of our points. you know, it was all bs. sorry -- >> it's gamble, that's okay. george conway, thank you. we'll be right back. >> we're on cable, -- we're on cable, -

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going to make what we call a hard turn. on this day in 1963, legendary civil rights leader was assassinated by a white supremacist outside his home in jackson, mississippi. he was only 37 years old. >> they kink -- a sniper fired a single shot from a high powered rifle. the bullet hitting them in the back, crushed through his body. he died within an hour at a

jackson hospital. >> as the mississippi field secretary for the naacp, evers encouraged black americans, including terrorized sharecroppers, teachers, and college students to register to vote. he protested segregation, and launched an investigation into the emmett till lynching. 60 years after his assassination, i got to sit down with his widow, evers williams, and national icon with her own civil rights legacy, and who just turned 90 years young, by the way. she shared with me what medgar evers would feel about politics today. >> i do believe he would encourage more people to register and to vote, that was always a cause of his that he embraced strongly. i think he would be pleased to see more people of color devote themselves to their communities and what's going on around. i think medgar if would be very

restless right now. and he should be. >> what's the most important think people should know about marley evers williams? >> that i am human. i am prone to error. i try not to make errors. i am very strong about what i believe in. and i will go to the nth degree to see that take place -- medgar was very much the same way. as you know, he gave his life for freedom of his people. >> my full interview with a beautiful and wonderful marley evers is online right now at the reidout block. to have a look. and that's tonight's reidout. all in chris hayes starts now. 's r eidout all in chris hayes start>> toni- >> i am not justifying his behavior. if it were