in using them as a foyle is beneficial. that's where they are at this point. also in their minds for a long time they thought that donald trump would be easier to beat than a lot of these other younger candidates who could possibly be the next nominee for the republican party, but we're not going to expect anything from president biden or his folks from the official administration side any time soon. >> we should note that president biden made clear his first days in office that he wouldn't be commenting on any department of justice matters, particularly one involving his predecessor. >> white house correspondent for politico eugene daniels, thank you, my friend. great to see you. thanks to all of you forgetting up way too early with us. it's a significant day in the united states of america. moej starts right now. >> i'm convinced that if he goes back to the white house, the next four years will be about

him settling scores. he's shown himself, most particular he doesn't give a damn about the american people. former new jersey governor chris christie is the loudest voice against donald trump so far in the 2024 republican race. it comes as the former president is set to be arraigned -- >> what are we? the falcon here? chewbacca. >> i don't think our viewers can see what was going on and i was covering perfectly. >> you were covering perfectly. >> everything was going fine. >> if i'm not telling people -- one minute before -- >> did you see the lights go out on lemire? >> were you supposed to pay the electric bill? we rotate who does the bills. >> i wanted to have sort of the

1950s murrow vibe. >> it started up and it sounded like when hans was hammering the millennial falcon. >> that's how i fix everything. >> as you can see, joe and willie are back together al with katty and me. former president trump is set to be arraigned this afternoon on multiple federal charges for his handling of classified materials. we have legal experts standing by to break down what we can expect from the hearing and what could come next. we'll also take a look at new reporting on the former president's struggles to find legal representation for the very serious charges he is facing. >> rev, this is bad. as a new yorker that understands this, a guy saying i knew donald well, worked with him. we found out pretty soon that if you do business with the guy, he

just doesn't pay his bills. he starts by suing you. then he's like, i'm going to get 50%. that's always worked. it didn't work for this guy. everybody in new york knows that's how he always worked, but here with lawyers, it's catching up with him. first of all, he hasn't paid his bills in a lot of cases according to lawyers. secondly, he doesn't listen to them. >> take a look at the arraignment. >> that's going to be -- >> first of all, he can't be lawyered or coached, so let's forget that. he's going to be his own worst enemy. i think it's sad for the country. but it was inevitable for donald trump. those of us that knew him, knew that donald trump does not believe the rules apply to him. he was a small guy in a big chair. it reminds me of the adage that

you can put a crown on a clown but it doesn't make him a king. he's going to make the domain a circus. that's what has happened. he's not a clown, but he certainly has not risen to being president or presidential, and because he brought those bad habits and traits with him, he is now being criminally tried. i think he probably will be convicted. >> you know who is a clown, willie, one republican after another after another who actually don't even think or won't even admit that taking nuclear secrets and hoarding them and taking some of the most secure things -- according to people in the trump administration who worked around national security saying this is worse than any of us could have ever expected which means that republicans, people like lindsey graham understand that, too. all they can do is say "what about hillary?" by the way, just for the record

here, the obama state department looked at hillary and said, no, she didn't do anything overt and deliberate that hurts national security. the obama justice department did the same. oh, wait a second. the trump justice department had four years -- let me say that again. they had four years to bring charges, and they never did. the state department had four years to write a scathing rebuke of hillary clinton, never did. they could have charged her over four years if she had done something that broke the law. they didn't do that. yet these clowns come in with this, well, what about hillary, what about whatever. again, biden and mike pence returned the documents. this guy steals nuclear secrets and lies about it.

>> nuclear secrets, war plans. there is no comparison. we'll say it a million times between what donald trump is alleged to have done, what mike pence did, what joe biden did and even what hillary clinton did. yet you have people like speaker kargt again -- this is the speaker of the house who i don't think he believes any of this. if he does believe it and doesn't think what he saw in that indictment is a big deal, we ought to wonder if he should have access to classified information, if he thinks anybody should be able to pass everything around. >> if they think, jonathan lemire, that they should be able to get nuclear secrets, somebody could take it home and it's okay. if lindsey graham thinks that donald trump having nuclear secrets and has the most important classified documents and america's weaknesses of war plans and that's cool, seriously these people are unfit to serve and certainly unfit to have any classified information. all they're doing, they think

they're defending donald trump. all they're doing is condemning themselves. for americans to say we can't trust these clowns. >> there's a chorus of voices over the last couple days saying just how stunning and seriousness the level of documents were, worse than people possibly could have imagined, these are america's most sacred secrets, those that could endanger the lives of operatives, endanger the lives of alliances with foreign entities that have put people in harm's way for the united states. we've heard a few republican voices, chris christie being one, nikki haley, turned her tone of voice and went from defending trump yesterday to criticizing trump. right now they are few and far between. we still wait to hear from the likes of now that the arraignment is coming, governor desantis, vice president mike pence and even speaker mccarthy. >> speaker mccarthy said there

was a lock on the bathroom door. listen again. this is the speaker of the house of the united states yesterday. >> is that a good look for the former president to have boxes in a bathroom? >> i don't know is it a good picture to have boxes in a garage that opens up all the time. a bathroom door locks. i don't want people to take these documents away, vice president pence. as a senator -- what concerns me is you have these -- a lot of these documents behind a corvette in a garage with the door wide open. >> it's like fighting with an idiot. there's no need to fight with an idiot. that's just the dumbest argument, willie. >> it's shameful. >> do we have to say bathroom doors lock in the inside? maybe you have to be inside the bathroom flushing them down the toilet. >> that's true. katty, this is the speaker of

the house not some random podcaster, this is from the speaker of the house saying what i saw in those pictures, what i read in the indictment, eh, not so bad. like joe biden returning documents when he was confronted with it, did not obstruct returning them. >> kevin mccarthy is so desperately concerned about his members, he's voting, he's having to say this. there seems to be some distinctions between republicans like bill barr who don't have to account to voters and those who do in terms of what they're saying. nikki haley was interesting yesterday because she is trying to win over voters. she said this puts all our military men and women in danger. this is reckless. she raises again the possibility of a third indictment. somebody who knows national security from her time at the united nations, it would be very hard for her to be as glib perhaps as kevin mccarthy is doing with secrets of this kind.

it reminds me when the raid first happened and we heard from people from the cia saying this is potentially really bad. when you look at what's actually in there, it's much worse. >> worse than they expected. >> worse than they expected. >> katty is with us from the duration. katty has a book out today. your timing is horrible. >> terrible. there we go. abuse of power? >> maybe it is good timing. katty and claire are at it again "the power code" we'll be talking about it in the 7:00 hour. >> decision into the all the legal machinations. you'll want to read it. >> david ignatius is with us as well this morning. pointing that out as we launch into our first story backwards, as we always do. former president donald trump is hours away from his first scheduled court appearance as a

federal criminal defendant. the former president is set to appear in a miami courtroom at 3:00 eastern time to be arraigned on a 37-count federal criminal indictment for his alleged mishandling of classified documents after leaving the white house. this makes him the first ever former president to be charged with a federal crime. a source tells nbc news trump flew from new jersey to south florida yesterday with attorney todd blanche who will represent him at today's hearing. but it is not clear who else might also represent trump at the hearing if anyone. blanch is a new york-based lawyer, typically a local attorney who is admitted to practice in the southern district of florida, would have to be present in the court in order for the arraignment to take place. a source tells nbc news judges are usually open to allowing a lawyer who is not admitted in the district to appear on behalf of the defendant. magistrate judge jonathan

goodman will preside over today's court appearance. trump-appointed judge aileen cannon who was randomly assigned to the case from among four judges in the west palm beach division will not be present today. in any case, trump's appearance today will consist of being processed and fingerprinted. it is not clear if a mugshot will be taken. judge goodman will set bond and conditions of pretrial release which could include trump having to surrender his passport. one likely condition of bond will include a provision that trump not commit a federal, state or local crime during his period of release. >> setting the bar high i see. >> if the arraignment does occur, trump will verbally enter his plea which he said will be not guilty. no cameras will be allowed inside the courtroom. and once the hearing is over, trump is expected to fly back to

bedminster, new jersey, where he will give public remarks about the case. i wonder, and we can ask our legal experts about this, but perhaps the judge might give him some parameters on any remarks he might make. >> maybe not early, maybe after there's a reason. let's say -- >> after he gives them a reason? >> a couple hours in, exactly. david ignatius, i wanted to circle back to you and talk about how disheartening it is and talk about how you have someone third in line to the presidency, and i don't want to just focus on kevin mccarthy because there are so many republicans that are bad actors now. we keep being shocked but not surprised. i've got to say in this case i'm actually shocked and somewhat surprised that somebody in mccarthy's position, republican or democrat, would scoff and dismiss nuclear secrets being

stolen from a secure location and documents spread out, not only in bathrooms and showers, but also in barrooms -- in ballrooms with access. these documents, again, people in the trump administration i've talked to, these are -- so many of these documents are extraordinarily sensitive. they're shocked not only that donald trump had them, but apoplectic at how they were stored. some of america's most important secrets, stored the way they were. >> at a country club. >> i'm stammering a little bit here because i find it hard to believe that any grownup like kevin mccarthy, third in line, would be talking like a 5-year-old in a playground fight. it's just insanity. >> so, joe, i think what's beginning today is a test for

the republican party. the facts are extraordinary. you go through page after page of this indictment and thought they couldn't have gotten that specific evidence, and yes, they do. the evidence they have, for example, from one of donald trump's former lawyers is extraordinary as he recounts what trump asked him to do. i have a copy of the indictment i brought along. i was re-reading it. the words leap off the page. if they don't leap off the page for speaker mccarthy, there is something wrong. he's been running scared from the maga republican right since he became speaker. we've all watched that. this is a moment where he and every other republican have to think, do i want to go over the waterfall with donald trump with the facts in this case? i think as you often said, joe,

this is a test for the party. the more they attach themselves to this ex-president, to this set of facts, the worse it's going to be for them. >> do they want to go over the waterfall -- >> great parallel. >> -- to defend a guy that stole state secrets, lied about stealing state secrets. has his aide hide state secrets when they were coming back to get those state secrets and continued lying about it. it's all on tape. they've got him. he's busted. kevin mccarthy is still going nah-nah. if you listen to him, nobody believes him. he doesn't even believe himself. what is world defending a guy that has stolen state secrets, lied about it and obstructed justice when they tried to get

it back? >> absolutely makes you wonder. let's bring in former u.s. attorney joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst, attorney bradley moss. he specializes in cases relating to national security, and congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post," jackie alemany. brad, what stood out in this indictment to you as a national threat to our national security or what items, plural? >> the 31 documents referenced in this indictment are no small thing. put aside the classification markings on them. we're talking about details on nuclear weaponry, both our own and a foreign country. we're talking about war plans, defensive capabilities if there's an attack on the united states, intelligence on how military operations would take place overseas. these are some of the crown jewels of what the intelligence

community gathers, what the defense department compiles over the course of a presidency, what they use to advise policymakers and decision makers on how to proceed forward. it's just sitting around in the basement, sitting in the bathroom behind the shower curtain. this kind of information is not supposed to be out of a secure location. donald trump is getting his come up ins today in a way i don't think he expected. >> joyce vance, we've been talking about how donald trump is having a hard time finding an attorney. part of this, as chris christie said last night, it's indefensible. bill barr used the word toast. he read the indictment and said the guy is toast, that's barr talking about donald trump. as you read through this, how serious, how damning are these charges? >> the charges are extraordinary serious in and of themselves. but it's the fact detail that

doj provides in this speaking indictment that really tells the story of how much jeopardy the former president faces. when you think about people who have declined to condemn the former president's conduct, who do not see a difference between joe biden and mike pence and donald trump, it's because they don't want to see the difference. it's in plain writing for everyone to see at this point, the level of obstruction is just out of bounds. you know, prosecutors encounter obstruction in cases where people try to keep their wrongdoing from coming to light. that's always an indication that they knew what they did was wrong. the pictures you've shown helps us appreciate the severity of these charges. there's one photo in particular we haven't talked a lot about. it's that photo in a storage air with a box with the lid off, documents streen all over the

floor and you can see the classified marking on the dock. as someone who stored classified documents, it gives me hives to think about. this is exposed at a country club for anyone who chose to walk in. >> many legal experts have pointed out what we saw in the indictment might just be half of the evidence or less than what the prosecutors are sitting on right now as we head to trial. jackie alemany, is there an actual problem today, any jeopardy of this proceeding not happening today? secondly, who is going to defend him? who is left of all the people who departed his side. >> a good question. there aren't going to be any issues last night. we've been told that christopher kieft, the vet land florida lawyer who signed on to trump's

legal team last year and very wisely got an up-front multimillion dollar retainer before he was alienated and pushed off the mar-a-lago documents case is going to be appearing with todd blanche who has taken the helm of trump's defense team. they're going to be appearing with donald trump today, along with walt nauta who was also charged in that 49-page indictment and listed as one of donald trump's co-con spear task force. going forward, the trump team is still searching for a lawyer. we reported last night that yesterday afternoon after trump landed in florida, he had a number of interviews with prospective interviews. several have already turned down an offer to represent the former president for a myriad of reasons. the two things we keep hearing is, number one, trump doesn't pay his lawyers. he has a pretty well-known track record of that, and also,

because he's someone who regularly puts his own lawyers in legal jeopardy. look at evan corcoran most recently who actually was a witness in this case. attorney one referenced extensively in the indictment. who the trump team is going to settle on, is unclear. we do know one name, ben cunnie, a well-known turn who was indicted in 2008 for money laundering charges that were dismissed a year later. >> mika reported the condition of the bond is that trump not commit any other crime. what if he's charged with a crime? i'm thinking fulton county, georgia. what if that investigation comes down in the months ahead. could that impact what happens here? >> very standard provision in a bond, if you violate conditions of the bond, you can be taken into custody. this is applying to crimes that

the former president commits after the bond is issue. fulton county, might it change whether or not there's release, i think it's very unlikely to alter whatever decision is made today in court. notably, if the former president were found, say, to have on going retention of additional classified documents that hadn't been turned over, that might well ring the bell for new and additional crimes. >> bradley, walk through what the potential weaknesses might be in the prosecution's case. if you are the prosecution here, what are the things you might be concerned about? >> sure. so the biggest issue, we saw this a lot in the indictment, is the question of how much of evan corcoran's testimony and the notes, the stuff that was detailed explicitly in the indictment, how much of that gets admitted at trial? there was an initial ruling in this grand jury face where the judge in d.c. ordered him to testify, ordered him to turn

over those notes under the crime fraud exception to attorney-client privilege. but now that the indictment has been brought, now that there could be a potential trial in south florida, the trump team could raise a new argument about admissibility and privilege to have that excluded, to prevent the government from using it. while i have no reason to believe that judge cannon would change that assessment from judge howell's ruling from several months ago, that is a wildcard. if the trump team is able to get some or all of that testimony and those notes kicked out, that would cripple the government's case because that was such a key part of the obstruction element, such a key underpinning of this indictment. >> again, if she gets that kicked out, it goes up to the 11th circuit of the supreme court, right? >> correct. the government would immediately appeal. it would delay everything. the 11th circuit would most

likely reverse. >> attorney bradley moss, former u.s. attorney joyce vance and still ahead on "morning joe," we have much more on what to expect in donald trump's federal arraignment including the heightened security in miami amid possible protests and threats of violence, plus the 2024 gop candidates defending and attacking trump over his latest indictment, and the one who appears to be in the middle. we'll tell you who that is. also ahead, an update on the explosion that collapsed a section of i-95 in philadelphia. much more on that story. and history in the mile-high city. we'll have the highlights from the denver nuggets nba championship victory. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.

for too long, big pharmaceutical companies have bought off politicians so they can get away with ripping us off. that's changing now. joe biden just capped the price of insulin for seniors at $35 a month. gave medicare the power to negotiate lower prescription drug prices. and prices are already starting to go down. the out-of-pocket cost is dropping for 27 drugs. [narrator] learn how the inflation reduction act will save you money.

♪ inflation reduction act with wet amd, sometimes i worry my world is getting smaller because of my sight. but now, i can open up my world with vabysmo. vabysmo is the first fda-approved treatment for people with wet amd that improves vision and delivers a chance for up to 4 months between treatments. which means doing more of what i love. ♪ vabysmo is the only treatment designed to block 2 causes of wet amd. vabysmo is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection or active swelling in or around your eye, or are allergic to it or any of its ingredients. treatments like vabysmo can cause eye infection or retinal detachment. vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. although uncommon, there is a potential risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. open up your world! a chance for up to 4 months between treatments with vabysmo. ask your doctor.

♪ you were always so dedicated... ♪ we worked hard to build up the shop, save for college and our retirement. but we got there, thanks to our advisor and vanguard. now i see who all that hard work was for... it was always for you. seeing you carry on our legacy— i'm so proud. at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner. setting up the future for the ones you love. that's the value of ownership.

beautiful shot of the sunrise in washington, d.c. it is just about half past the hour. republican presidential candidate, former new jersey governor chris christie spoke about the trump indictment in a cnn town hall last night. >> it is a very tight, very detailed evidence-ladened indictment. the conduct in there is awful. put aside taking the documents in the first place. but then when you start getting asked, anderson, in may of '21, nicely, with a letter from the archivist saying, can you please give it back and you ignore it, ignore it, ignore it. then they come with the grand jury subpoena. then according to the indictment you tell your lawyers, tell them

we don't have anything, even though you have dozens and dozens of boxes of material. that's obstruction of justice if it's true. this is vanity run amuck, anderson, ego run amuck. he's now going to put this country through this when we didn't have to go through it. i did this for seven years in new jersey. we did 130 political corruption prosecutions without a loss. what i can tell you for sure i know about that indictment is probably about a third of the evidence we have is in that indictment. >> there's a lot more? >> guaranteed there's a lot more. if you're a prosecutor, you never put every card on the table before the trial. don't be fooled. there's a lot more information to come when they go to trial, specifically i think there are going to be a lot of witnesses who actually worked for donald trump who are now going to be testifying against him. >> you know him very well. why do you think he did it?

>> he couldn't -- he cannot live with the fact that he lost to joe biden. he can't live with it. i watch the way joe biden is performing. i'd be pretty bummed out, too, if i lost to joe biden. the fact of the matter is he did. he wants to continue to pretend that he's president, he wants the trappings of being the president around him. we're in a situation where people in my own party who are blaming doj. how about blame him? he did it. he hasn't won a damn thing since 2016. three-time loser. 2018 we lost the house. 2020 we lost the white house. we lost the united states senate in 2021. in 2022 we lost two more governorships, another senate seat and barely took the house of representatives when joe biden had the most incompetent two years i've ever seen in my

life. loser, loser, loser. >> wow, when you do that, it's good. that's pretty effective. he laid it out there and came in in the end with loser, loser, loser. it's true. that makes kevin mccarthy so confusing. this guy loses for you and you come up with the most pathetic defense. bathroom doors have locks? >> talking about how good chris christie actually was last night. we or not even talking about the content. we're talking about his argument, how he delivered the argument. >> he was excellent last night. he was very clear in his criticism of donald trump. he said this stuff is indefensible guys. we can pretend it's not. read the indictment. he said it's indefensible. stop blaming everybody else, stop talking about everything

being weaponized. blame a guy who took military plans and stuffed them in a shower in mar-a-lago and allegedly was waving them around for everybody. is there a lane for chris christie in this race? as john pointed out, there wasn't any applause for any of the lines. he was telling the truth and doing it effectively. there wasn't a big rousing ovation. >> i'm not sure how this town hall was set up. >> at least the truth actually got in the front door. >> that's right. >> of a republican event, and got through the front door, we must say, david ignatius, but a very skilled prosecutor. now people are talking about chris christie's lane, does he have a lane for victory? i don't even know if that's what he's focused on right now. it appears that he's interested in prosecuting the case against a man he believes has destroyed

his republican party and now is doing things with these documents that could destroy the national security of the united states of america. >> there's also, joe, the amazing shakespearean drama of chris christie who prosecuted jared kushner's father and was exiled from the trump inner circle, canned at the last minute from what he thought would be a significant role. he's having his say now. i thought he had some incredibly acute observations last night, one that really struck was the phrase "vanity run amuck." i've been looking at the indictment. i want to read one brief section in which trump's former lawyer, evan corcoran where trump said, i don't want anybody looking, i don't want anybody looking through my boxes.

i really don't. i don't want you looking through my boxes. it's that sense that the presidency, the documents, these secrets that millions of americans in uniform and in our intelligence services have worked so hard to gather, they're mine. that's the thing that to me in this indictment that's so appalling. i think christie just nailed it. i hope republicans will see it, do they really want to defend this? do they want to go to the wall to defend the things that are in this document? >> think about it, willie, chris christie, you think about others that are starting to speak out. you think about the family that has scattered, from the members of the family that scattered. again, it's not happening as fast as perhaps some would like. but bit by bit, piece by piece, look where donald trump is in

2023 compared to where he was in 2016. more and more isolate zbld the family went everywhere together in 2016, no matter where it was. >> you look at the people that. >> reporter: willing to work for him in 2016. >> the family. >> that are nowhere to be seen now. the harshest attacks have come from people like barr. we were watching fox last night just to see what they were doing at 6:00. it's pretty down the middle. at least, we didn't see the rest of it, stay off my twitter, or you can go on there. it's such a mess now, by the way, twitter. i used to -- >> confusing. >> i could scroll through it in five minutes and i knew what the news was. i can't do it now. >> i don't even look at it. >> it's ads, it's chaos, the stuff i don't want to see. >> garbage. >> i'm not saying i don't care if -- i don't care who is running it.

>> maybe they'll fix it. >> this isn't directed at elon musk. i'm saying it's an absolute mess. i now, let me say this to all my progressive friends, as far as the quick fix, what's going on, what's the buzzy stuff, you go to grudge, then you go to all the newspapers that used to be twitter. i scroll it. in five minutes i knew the world. >> it's weird now. it's cartoonesque. >> i have no idea how i got onto twitter -- oh, last night it was pretty straight down the middle at 6:00 on fox. they played the quotes of barr which was just searing. then they had brent huhn on. he was like, okay, listen. okay, so maybe they should have done something different with hillary. maybe they should do something different than somewhere else. okay, that's fine.

you can do that. at the same time, deeply offended and worried about what donald trump has done here with national security secrets. >> that's exactly what chris christie said last night. i think james comey blew it with hillary clinton. that deserved more prosecution. okay. put that to the side. that was seven, eight years ago. just read the indictment. this is nuclear secrets. this is military planning. again, i understand our audience doesn't love everything chris christie stands for. his policy positions, we've said millions of times, he was along for the ride. endorsed trump in 2016, gave him credibility, worked for him right up through debate president biden in 2020. we get all that. there is something saying the obvious, which should be the easy, but not so easy as it turns out for most republicans to say this is bad. >> it appears nikki haley has read the diermt.

she's criticizing the form are president. the former u.n. ambassador tweeted in support of trump writing, quote, this is not how justice should be pursued in our country. the american people are exhausted by the prosecutorial overreach, double standards and vendetta politics. then yesterday on fox news, nikki haley condemned trump. >> if this indictment is true, if what it says is actually the case, president trump was incredibly reckless with our national security. more than that, i'm a military spouse. my husband is about to deploy this weekend. this puts all of our military men and women in danger if you're going to talk about what our military is capable of or how we would go about invading or doing something with one of our enemies. if that's the case, it's reckless, it's frustrating and it causes problems. we're looking now, this is the second indictment, we're looking

at possibly a third indictment coming in with georgia. >> i'm looking at what she said there. another person who worked for trump. u.n. ambassador. that's all you ask for in a leader. they can change their mind, right? she saw it and she said if -- if this is true, this is incredibly reckless, incredibly damning. she has a very personal reason for being concerned about it because her husband is in the military. >> i think by her making it about her personal feelings with her husband, it brings us back in the court of where we ought to be. the most disturbing thing to me about what speaker mccarthy said is he acts as though, if there was a lock -- i don't care if it was a vaulted lock on the door, the documents had a right to be in the bathroom. they have moved this whole thing to like donald trump had the right to have the documents. it didn't matter whether there

was a lock on the door. >> here's the thing. we keep forgetting this. i'd have the hearing, armed services committee, you need to go upstairs, get in the scif. you sit in there, even hose you down. maybe they just hosed me down. you go through all these steps, you leave the phone here, you go and sit down. i wasn't intimidating being around presidents and prime ministers in little small rooms. it didn't faze me at all. i ulz knew -- i was nervous in there because the consequences were so great if you screwed up. i've said it here on this show before. i had briefings on north korea in 1998 that i still won't talk about today. i'm sure it's totally fine to talk about, but everybody is

just trained. if they come and say this is top secret, this is classified information, you cannot repeat this to anybody. here i am almost 30 years later, that sticks with you. kevin mccarthy is the same way. kevin mccarthy is not going in and stealing documents. kevin mccarthy is not taking documents out to california and throwing them in the bathroom at a sur fur friend's house. he's just not doing it. they know better. you don't do this. >> and if you had taken any of those documents to your congressional office at the time, it doesn't matter whether you had a lock on the door or not. they were not supposed to be out of the place that you were told to keep them. >> by the way, everybody is attacking the fbi. we all knew, you slid a document here, even to your congressional

office, johnny law dog is there. you've got the fbi big dog coming in sniffing your room for documents or whatever. we all knew that. mccarthy knows that. he would never take it from the scif even to his speaker's office without authorization, or the fbi would come calling. now they're trashing the fbi for doing to drum what they would do to them for much less. >> that's the outrage of their defense, if you want to call it their defense. i think nikki haley, who i don't agree with on most things was right to say, wait a minute, i'm going to take a change of mind here, which i think is fine. i think chris christie, who i don't agree with on me things, was excellent last night. he did what the republican party needs to do, let's have some standards returned. >> exactly. the question for kevin mccarthy

is that, just ask him, would you take documents from a scif and take them to your office. when you were asked to return them, would you give him back? just ask him that. >> they're not answering the question. they answer, well, what do you think about jiepd's corvette, is what he said. then lindsey graham was, well, the republicans are very concerned. the republicans want to know -- he always talks -- he talks about the republicans. lindsey knows that his golf partner has committed a multitude of crimes. lindsey deals with this stuff on the armed services committee. he knows better. listen to what they say. they never -- this is what was brought up last night on fox. they never say he didn't commit these crimes. they never say he's an innocent man. no billy joel singing out there.

they never say it. that's because he's guilty, he's guilty in all these counts. they know he's guilty in all these counts. they do the james carville look at the bird over there, look at the bird over there. >> even lindsey graham, that emotional interview with george stephanopoulos conceded that trump shouldn't have taken the documents. there's no defending the idea that he had them in his possession. it is the what-aboutism. most republicans, the briend loyalty, it shows the grip trump still has on the country. christie has fashioned his entire campaign that's probably not going anywhere, fashioned his entire campaign as a trump critic. nikki haley has not done that. is she emblematic, is this the first turn, the first sign that some of the other candidates might do the same? the answer is quite possibly no. >> oh, come on.

>> it's about scott, pence, desantis. >> so far scott and pence are not. they're still defending him. if you look at the polling, the latest reuters poll shows that 81% of republicans think this is a politically motivated process against donald trump. what they're doing, what kevin mccarthy is doing and the other republican leaders is having an impact on the republican party. you've got a trump base of 30% that are going to be loyal to him whatever, but 81% of republicans believe that this is politically motivated. every time they talk about joe biden, hillary clinton, even mike pence, they are doing what -- they are having an impact on voters. >> the reason they don't want to talk about this to your point, chuck grassley was asked about it. he said i'm not a legal expert. i can't speak to that. he knows better. senator john kennedy, if you want to talk about lsu being in the college world series, we can talk about that. i don't want to talk about the

trump thing. the reason they can't say anything is because this has cut through with the public in a way, there's the picture, there are the photographs of the documents in a bathroom, in the ballroom. donald trump said what he said on the record, yeah, i took what i took, i had every right to do it under the presidential records act. that's not true. as chris christie said last night, it is indefensible. therefore, they're not trying to defend. >> they've got the pictures, they've got to tape. he said, well, i could declassify this if i were still president but i'm not. i can't declassify it so we've got a problem here. his aide laughs. it's indefensible. so we'll see what happens. again, i'm just wondering, is tim scott going to keep acting like this isn't a big deal? is mike pence? so mike pence steps forward on

january 6th and does the right thing but he won't do the right thing when it comes to calling out somebody that stole nuclear secrets, stole nuclear secrets and then lied about having them? >> you might expect mike pence to be more of the mitt romney line, he comes from a similar background as mitt romney. but he's not managing to do it. after this arraignment, what happens? we have continuing some stories about it. but until the trial, i guess they're all just hoping they can get away -- >> it's only going to get worse. as chris christie said, there's only more evidence that's going to come out. >> we need dan quayle. former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade explains why this whataboutism is so dangerous. that's straight ahead on "morning joe."

whenever you're hungry, there's a deal on the subway app. buy one footlong, get one 50% off in the subway app today. now that's a deal worth celebrating. man, what are you doing?! get it before it's gone on the subway app. ♪♪ and this is ready to go online. get it before it's gone on the subway app. any questions? -yeah, i got one. how about the best network imaginable? let's invent that. that's what we do here. quick survey. who wants the internet to work, pretty much everywhere. and it needs to smooth, like super, super, super, super smooth. hey, should you be drinking that? -it's decaf. because we're busy women. we don't have time for lag or buffering. who doesn't want internet that helps a.i.

do your homework even faster. come again. -sorry, what was that? introducing the next generation 10g network only from xfinity. the future starts now.

a live picture of new york city, about seven minutes before the top of the hour on a tuesday morning. some big news, surprising news to a lot of us out of the city. the police commissioner, only a year and a half into the job, stepping down. what's going on here? >> i don't know the inside. i know she did a very good job in terms of reshaping some things and getting some things done. but i've not talked to the mayor. yesterday i was out of town. but she stepped down. i think that many of us that saw her kind of turning things in a better way than had been done in

the last several years. sad to see her go. i think, knowing mayor adams, he will have his choice of a good commissioner to replace her. >> some way he's a micro manager. i heard that yesterday afternoon. so maybe he might have managed a little too much. some people are, like, let me do my job, and apparently, based on the reports, that's what she's saying. i will say in new york over the past four or five days we've been going around and, man, it seems to be pre-covid new york and haven't been down to the subway yet. but everything else seems -- i say almost back to normal. you want a tic tac and there are three plastic containers. >> rev said free my tooth paste,

and he's right about that. >> you want a pack of gum and you've got to hit the button. it's a terrible sign of the times because there is some of that retail theft. the subway still has some problems. people go down and there's sort of a sense of your head on a swivel. you're right, the city is coming back. the buildings in midtown are not occupied the way they were. that's a huge structural change that probably isn't going to come back post-covid. but it's a beautiful time of year, tourists are back. it's bustling. >> traffic is back. >> traffic is bad. >> worst ever. >> you get a sense that those of us that are new yorkers, that the energy is back. but i still want you to unlock my toothpaste. >> i will say, also, quickly, willie touched on commercial space, so much commercial space. this is a crisis. it doesn't add up. you're going to have all of these commercial tenants defaulting and where does that

go? that goes to the banks. how big is that going to be? really quickly before we leave, david ignatius, let's go from commercial space problems in manhattan to a war, a very hot war in europe. before we let you go, give us the very latest, what you're hearing, at least, about the ukrainian counteroffensive and russia's response to it. >> joe, what i'm hearing is basically cautious assessments. the ukrainian counteroffensive has begun. they've made modest progress and announced openly that they've taken four relatively small villages in the southeast in the donetsk area. it's believed that this offensive is going to try, through multiple axes, to push south, break the so-called land bridge that connects russia with crimea. that's the strategic goal. that could take many weeks. the russians are dug in, the defenses are very difficult. this will be costly for ukraine.

but i think initially the judgment would be this is off to a careful start. it's been planned meticulously. people are writing this will be the biggest military battle in europe since world war ii, when it really gets under way. let's stay tuned for something that could be quite extraordinary. >> david ignatius and reverend al sharpton, thank you for being here this morning. next on "morning joe," does prosecuting the former president make any sense? eugene washington joins us to talk about his new piece in the "washington post." we're back in two minutes. when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com. hey bud. wow. what's all this?

hawaii was too expensive so i brought it here. you know with priceline you could actually take that trip for less than all this. i made a horrible mistake. ♪ go to your happy price ♪ ♪ priceline ♪

the problem is that he's got to run the table. he's 76 years old. all the government has to do is stick the landing on one count and he could have a terminal sentence. you're talking about crimes that

have a 10 or 20 year period as a maximum. the evidence here is quite strong. we haven't heard their other side. generally indictments are a lot stronger on the day they're issued than the next day. so they may be able to knock down some of these issues. but some of this evidence is coming from his former counsel and these are very damaging statements that have been made against him. it may be hard to move those. the fact is both things may be true. yes, the department of justice may have been out to get him. but he made it easy. if you look at what is being described in this indictment, confronted with someone he felt was trying to get him, he couldn't have made it more easy for them to do so. >> legal analyst jonathan turley laying out not only the serious legal trouble donald trump is facing, but the real life consequences, should he be convicted? it's notable. >> it is very notable. we were talking about barr, we

were talking about some of these other people, chris christie, nikki haley, jonathan turley has defended donald trump through every legal up and down over the past five, six years. after you read the indictment, it was scorched earth. let's just say this, though, the justice department was after him? i'm sorry, you stole nuclear secrets and they go, hey -- and this is what barr said, he was very polite. listen, you wouldn't happen to have nuclear secrets at your beach house, would you? gee whiz, we would really like them back. they could not have been more polite and professional trying to get them and he just kept lying to them. >> the national archives asked politely and politely again, they got some back. he said, yep, we've given you everything. they said it doesn't feel like everything, are you sure? trump's team said, yep, we've

given you everything. the fbi says i think there's more in there and they exercise a legal search warrant and get the rest of them that are in a shower in the bathroom. >> trump lies to the justice department, trump lies to the national archives, and, mike, trump lies to his own attorney. he lies on his own lawyer who is trying to help him, and says we've given them all back, sign the document that says we have. >> you know, joe, i used to love waking up almost every morning of my life with a smile on my face. and for the first time in my life, and i say this completely honestly, i'm older than everyone here at the table, i now wake up on the verge of despondancy nearly every day and the jonathan turley appearance reminded me of something i've wondered about for days now, months now, actually. where are the legitimate voices

to stand in protest over what's been done to the presidency of the united states? to the office of the presidency, to the constitution, to the structure of our government, to the feel for our country. where are the legitimate voices? where is george w. bush? where is barack obama? where are former chairmans of the joint chiefs of staff? where are they, where are they? who can not stand up and speak for the country. where are they? we hear jonathan turley, we hear about attacks on the justice department, we heard from congressmen who say an eye for an eye. where are the legitimate voices for the country? >> it's a good point, it's a good question. i mean, this is an inflection point, for sure. and there are choices being made by republicans that will have potentially a lasting impact, negatively. >> the stakes keep getting

higher. >> they do. >> the people you see, you see they come slowly, but they come, one by one. we've seen chris christie, a guy who supported him, we saw nikki haley yesterday, jonathan turley, somebody that had supported him for years, through thick and thin. bill barr supported him so much that, in my opinion at least, he committed perjury in front of the senate and the house, he lied about the mueller report. he was just absolutely abysmal. i think probably a worst attorney general and more corrupt attorney general than john mitchell, and yet he turned after january 6th, he turned after the stolen election, and now you have him saying this is very bad for him. it may be one by one, but we showed a poll earlier only 36% of the hard core republican base

think donald trump did something wrong stealing nuclear secrets. 80%, the rest of us, to quote sir paul mccartney, we've got them outnumbered. 80% said this is a very bad thing. >> i mean, the number of people who have spoken out, you can sort of count them on one, maybe two hands. bill barr, nikki haley, chris christie. i don't think jonathan turley counts. he's a lawyer so i wouldn't put him in that group. mitt romney, that's four major figures who have spoken out and said actually what donald trump did is wrong. the problem with the whataboutism, and even jonathan turley, he was saying the doj was out to get donald trump, what that does is feeds the misinformation, it feeds this incredible campaign of -- a deliberate campaign of putting misinformation into the public's mind, which is why you end up with the kind of polling that you do, and the republican party

at large believes this was a political witch hunt against donald trump. >> in the end, they're just hurting themselves. they're just drilling down deeper. they're just offending more voters in the suburbs. they're offending more voters in georgia, pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin, where all the trend lines, all the trend lines are going against him in all of those states. all they're doing by saying, yeah, it's cool if he stole nuclear secrets and lied about it to the department of justice and the fbi, and by the way, why don't we defund the fbi because they don't want politicians to steal nuclear secrets, all they're doing is expediting their collapse. >> and for what? to drive off the cliff with donald trump behind the wheel. it's wild, donny. and we played a bite earlier from speaker mccarthy where he was asked about the documents. we've seen the indictment, 37 counts laid out, photographs and everything else. well, there was a lock on that bathroom door.

what about the corvette in the garage for joe biden, for his documents? and the question is, there are always these moments after the attempted coup against the government where it could break with donald trump. now you think, oh, nuclear secrets and war plans at mar-a-lago, that's a good place to break, but it's not happening. >> it's interesting you mention the word documents and nuclear secrets. once the indictment was unsealed, that changed. the whole branding changed. it's not a classified document case, it's a nuclear secret case. and i think as time goes on, joe, to your point, if i hear one more person say, when donald trump gets indicted that actually makes him stronger. there's not one voter who left him in the suburbs of philadelphia, the swing voters, any independent that is going to go, oh, i'm going to go deeper. it makes my blood boil. >> it really is. it's such a rookie move.

what they're doing is looking at the base that boils down, and as i've said, we're not talking about a game of 10 yards, 15 yards. we're talking a game of inches. what is a yard? >> three yards and a cloud of dust. >> three yards and a cloud of dust. this is 0.1% of the vote in a pile of dust. you have something like this, all the loud mouths, and then quietly when the mob is there, you've got like 0.1% more of the republican base sneaking out the back door. and then something else comes out. and this is what's been happening. i'm not wishing this on anybody. this is what's happening. and you're right, you get indicted for stealing nuclear secrets and war defense plans and plans for a war against iran, and you think that's going

to help you with swing voters in the suburbs, defending? no. i swear to god, if you took what i've been saying for the past two years, time and time again, i said, don't do this, don't do this. like gene wilder in willy wonka. because bad stuff is going to happen to him. and these idiots, this only makes him stronger. no, it doesn't make him stronger. >> show me the one voter that left him and says, oh, now i'm coming back. he's got those nuclear secrets, my kind of guy, i'm back in the fold. >> also, prize winning columnist and associate editor of the "washington post," eugene washington, whose latest piece is entitled "arguments against prosecuting trump don't add up". >> tell us why. >> you know, what are they arguing, basically? they're arguing that these are

special charges for trump? i mean, there are cases quite regularly about people who take secret documents and those people go to jail. there's a lieutenant colonel, a retired lieutenant colonel who was sentenced in tampa at the beginning of june to three years in prison for doing a similar thing. he took, i think, 300 classified documents home and he kept them in his house in a storage pod in his driveway. it's reminiscent of the same thing as keeping them in your gilded ballroom or chandelier bathroom, which is only locked if it's occupied. and he ended up pleading guilty and he's going to go to prison for three years. and so this is not abnormal, this is not anybody out to get

donald trump, as you guys have detailed the timeline of the archives and the justice department asking for these documents and just give them back. had he just been given them back, he would not be prosecuted. this would not be a thing, much less a case that could send him to prison. but he refused to do that, he obstructed, and they're just making these ridiculous arguments about how joe biden is trying to weaken his most formidable opponent in the next election. that's the most ridiculous argument of all because donald trump is the one person joe biden knows he can beat. he's already done it once. he can beat donald trump again and he'll beat him worse. and so just from that naked political point of view, which let's remind everybody joe biden

does not tell the justice department what to do. he didn't tell jack smith what to do. unlike the way donald trump handled these situations. but even if you set that aside and take that naked political calculation, it would be nuts for biden to try to knock trump out of the race. so all these arguments they're making are just noise. and, really, what donny said and what barnacle said is right, it's disgusting and depressing that one of our two great political parties is in this state, is enthralled to this awful traderous person who is leading them off the cliff. >> and you brought up other people who have been charged. we think back to sandy berger and director deutsche, we think back to david petraeus.

the irony, why didn't donald trump pick david petraeus? irony of all ironies, he said he couldn't pick him because he mishandled classified documents. and he said it just wouldn't be right, even if i didn't, even if i didn't mind, he goes, those generals, let me tell you, those generals hate people that mishandle documents. i would have a mutiny on my hands. so he doesn't pick david petraeus for being sloppy with classified documents and then he does this. >> and the alice in wonderland world we're living in, david petraeus and sandy berger are now being raised by republicans for an indication of why donald trump shouldn't be prosecuted because all of those other people weren't. the level of misinformation that is being deliberately put out there is having an impact. i think most voters in the suburbs will say, yes, i'm going to walk away, there's too many

problems. but there may be some who actually do start believing. >> let's set the scene for what's going to be happening today. former president donald trump is just hours away from his first scheduled court appearance as a federal criminal defendant, the former president is set to appear in a miami courtroom at 3:00 p.m. eastern time to be arraigned on a 37-count federal criminal indictment for his alleged mishandling of classified documents after leaving the white house. this makes him the first-ever former president to be charged with a federal crime. a source tells nbc news trump flew to miami yesterday with attorney todd blanch who will represent him at today's hearing, but it's not clear who else might also represent trump at the hearing, if anyone at all. blanch is a new york-based lawyer, typically a local attorney who is admitted to practice in the southern

district of florida would have to be present in court in order for the arraignment to take place. but a source tells nbc news judges are usually open to allowing a lawyer who is not admitted in the district to appear on behalf of the defendant. magistrate judge jonathan goodman will preside over today's court appearance. trump-appointed judge aileen cannon, randomly assigned from young four judges in the west palm beach division will not be present today. trump's appearance will consist of being processed and fingerprinted. it's not clear if a mug shot will be taken. judge goodman will set bond and conditions of pretrial release, which could include trump having to surrender his passport. one likely condition of the bond would include a provision that trump not commit a federal, state or local crime during his period of release. if the arraignment does occur, trump will verbally enter his

plea, which he said will be not guilty. no cameras will be allowed inside the courtroom. and once the hearing is over, trump is expected to fly back to bedminster, new jersey, where he is expected to give public remarks about the case. let's bring in former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade and former litigator and msnbc legal analyst, outside the courtroom in miami. >> lisa, let's start with you on the question of the attorney. we heard reporting this morning that it won't be a problem, that there is a south florida based attorney who will appear with donald trump and this arraignment, this hearing will go on as scheduled. is that what you're hearing as well? >> reporter: it is. and also, willie, to your point and the point mika made earlier, it's not absolutely necessary that you do have a south florida based attorney. it's a requirement under the local rules that you have someone licensed to practice, but that requirement can be

waived for good cause shown. so either way there was a strong likelihood, at least as of this morning, that the arraignment would take place as initially scheduled, and i and others from nbc and the msnbc family will be inside the courthouse to bring you details later. >> we'll look forward to that. walk us through what to expect. we know donald trump has arrived in south florida, he's going to fly back to new jersey and make some kind of address tonight. what should we expect to see around 3:00 miami time? >> reporter: well, the most important thing that will happen in arraignment, as you already covered, is the entry of a plea. we fully expect donald trump to enter a plea of not guilty. one of the other important things that happens in an arraignment is the setting of conditions of release and that can involve everything from the setting of a bond, which is the equivalent of collateral in a defense situation, essentially saying i'm not necessarily giving you this money now, but if i flee from the forum and i

have a bond of $1 million, you're free to take that. so it's likely that a bond will be set. the other conditions of release can be everything from taking and confiscating a person's passport, and then there can be conditions on how the co-defendants interact with one another. i've been a defense lawyer in a case where two co-defendants to conspiracy charges were prohibited from talking with one another, even though one was the ceo, the other was his lawyer. here the attorney is employed by the trump organization and the magistrate is going to be loathe to have conditions from him basically continuing on in employment. on the other hand, it would be reasonable given the severity of the charges to prevent donald trump from having continuing contact with him. i'm interested in barb's perspective on this as a former prosecutor with the department of justice. >> let's talk about your latest article for time entitled "the

dangerous whataboutism in the trump classified docs case". you write in part, this, the indictment of donald trump on charges of retaining government documents brought with it the inevitable false equivalencies of the conduct of trump's chief political rival. the actions of the two men are different, as deliberately driving your crowd into a crowd of people and committing a fender bender. both acts involve cars, but the similarities end there. whataboutism may have become a common political ploy, but it is a trick straight out of the disinformation playbook. you continue, whataboutism is a strategy used by authoritarian leaders to excuse their own misconduct, and that it's an essential piece of kremlin tradecraft. the goal of this tactic is not to convince the public that the leader is innocent, but to portray all politicians as

dishonest, anyone claiming to value integrity is scoffed at as duplicitous or naive. trump and a lot of people who follow trump and a lot of leaders in congress playing that game straight on, even when nuclear secrets are involved. >> yeah, and the comparisons here are just so drastically different from 12 documents that showed up in boxes of joe biden and what donald trump has done. that indictment, over 49 pages, talks not just about the kinds of documents that donald trump retained as we discussed, nuclear secrets, but his incredible orchestration to deceive the justice department and keep them, when prosecutors looked to decide whether or not charges should be filed, they are looking for aggregating factors. not some accidental retention of documents, but deception, willfulness, disloyalty to the united states and exposure to people unauthorized to receive them. when people are comparing him to

others, what they really want to do is bring others into the conversation. what you won't hear is people really defending the conduct of trump. what they're saying instead is everybody does it, so what's the big deal? >> lisa, the former president's schedule today has been made very public and he has even alluded to the very public aspect of the schedule, including flying back to bedminster after the legal process is completed in miami in order to make public remarks, which he definitely hopes will be televised live on at least a couple of cable channels. my question to you, and it would be a question for the court, would any contingencies be allowed, would the judge from the bench say you've got to shut up about this trial, you have to stop trashing the process, as you've done in the past? i don't want any of that. would there be any possibility of that happening? >> reporter: i don't think today, mike, and here is why. the judge who is going to be hearing the arraignment today

expects, and reasonably so, his involvement to end today. he's going to be loathe to set conditions that he might think are more appropriately the purview of the judges who are going to be involved over the long haul. that's judge cannon and winehart, the same judge who authorized the search warrant originally. donald trump has not yet run afoul of this particular court, and recognizing, as you just said, that he has thwarted justice and other courts through his actions, has really flirted with some really fine lines in both the e. jean carroll case and new york case, i don't think we're at the point yet where we'll see any federal judge in the southern district of florida impose those conditions. could those come at a later point in the case? particularly if trump's rhetoric endangers the prosecutors and court personnel involved in the administration of justice, absolutely. but at this juncture i don't think it's likely.

>> so, barb, let me ask you about another case of whataboutism, and that is those defending trump and saying what about hillary clinton and the emails, what about the private server in her home? there was a three-year justice department investigation into hillary clinton and her server that ended during the trump administration, that found no systemic -- it wasn't a concerted effort, there was no effort to obstruct, that they were not doing what donald trump is alleged to have done at mar-a-lago. how do those two cases -- because i think it's important to remind our viewers, how do those two cases, hillary clinton's email server and what donald trump is alleged to have done at mar-a-lago, how do they compare? >> as you will recall, there was an inspector general report and jim comy gave a press conference where he noted that no charges would be filed. the key difference is criminal intent. to file criminal charges you must prove as an element

criminal intent. in donald trump's case, there is evidence that he acted willfully, he knew what he was doing and he even knew what he was doing was illegal. in the case of hillary clinton, as both the ig and jim comy said, there was no evidence of criminal intent, that she was aware the documents on the email were classified and she was storing them in a way that was not within the guidance and the protocols of handling classified information. so for that reason, these cases are very different. in addition, there was never a moment when she was told, you are retaining classified documents, please return them, and refused to do so. so the absence of those aggravating factors is what makes these two cases completely different. >> as we close out this block, barbara and lisa, i just want your thoughts of what you'll specifically be looking for today. lisa at the courthouse, why don't you go first. >> i'm really looking, mika, at

a couple of things. i'm looking at conditions of release, as i mentioned earlier. i'm also going to be looking at the former president's demeanor and who actually sits at the counsel table with him. although we understand that there will be a south florida defense lawyer with him, i'm not sure we know the identity of that person yet. i do know todd blanch, he's someone i encountered in practice. his reputation is stellar. and i'll also be looking to see whether todd blanch appears to be a person the former president listens to. we have seen a number of lawyers with prosecutorial experience enter the president's orbit thinking they will be the person who transformed him. they will be the person who disciplines him, makes him into the client that he should be for his own benefit, and each and every one of them usually exit his orbit worse for the wear, if not for criminal exposure. my hope is that todd blanch, with whom i've had nothing but good encounters, doesn't become one of those. i'm still scratching my head as

to why he gave up a lucrative partnership at a big new york law firm to take this case in the first place, if not for the fact that there are so many folks in the legal community who have a savior complex when it comes to donald trump. i'm going to be the one who gets him to listen and i'm going to win the case of the century. i think both of those things are going to be proven not to be true. >> maybe he asked for the money up front. i'm serious. he might have. barbara mcquade? >> you know, lisa covered very well i think what we might expect today, but i think what comes next is also very important because, although an arraignment is a very routine event, it is a significant event because it triggers many other things, including the setting of the trial schedule. so i would imagine that in short order judge cannon will be issuing a schedule for all things like the motion cutoff, discovery cutoff, a plea cutoff and a trial date. the first trial date may eventually get put out.

put the defendant is entitled to a trial within 70 days, but i would imagine in donald trump's case what he really wants to do is to push the trial date as far into the future as possible. we know from jack smith's comments that the government is seeking a speedy trial, which is also the right of the public. so i imagine there will be a little action in terms of the trial date. >> legal analyst lisa reuben and former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade, thank you so much on this historic day. and eugene robinson, thank you as well. we'll be reading your pieceness the "washington post." still ahead, speaker kevin mccarthy strikes a temporary deal with members of the rebel faction within his party, ending a nearly week-long blockade on the house floor. >> plus, an update on the four young children who survived a plane crash and 40 days alone in the amazon jungle. how they are recovering this morning, after their miraculous

rescue. >> and in other news, the long-time host of an iconic game show signals his final spin. we'll have the announcement from "wheel of fortune" pat sajak. we'll be right back. and papa is hungry. and while you're hittin' the trail, i'm hitting your cooler. oh, cheddar! i've got hot dog buns! and your cut-rate car insurance might not pay for all this. so get allstate, and be better protected from mayhem, like me. roar. (sfx: family screams in background)

are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and in sizes up to h-cup.

find your new favorite bra today at knix.com - representative! - sorry, i didn't get that. - oh buddy! you need a hug. you also need consumer cellular. get the exact same coverage as the nation's leading carriers and 100% us based customer support. starting at $20. consumer cellular.

32 past the hour. u.s. central command is reporting 22 service members were injured in what is called a helicopter mishap in northeast syria on sunday. a statement released last night did not give a cause for the accident but did note that no enemy fire was reported and that an investigation is under way. the service members have varying degrees of injuries and at least ten have been taken to higher-level care facilities. >> we'll keep an eye on that story. back here at home, pennsylvania state police confirmed at least one person

has died as a result of an i-95 overpass collapse in philadelphia. the section crumbled on sunday after a truck carrying thousands of gallons of fuel crashed and sparked a fire that damaged the metal that holds up the highway. nbc news correspondent emilie ikeda is there with the latest. >> reporter: a tanker crash engulfed i-95 in philadelphia reducing lanes to rubble. surveillance video showing the fiery collision and officials revealing new details about the moments just before. >> from what we understand, the tractor and trailer were trying to navigate the curve, lost control of the vehicle, landed on its side, and ruptured the tank and ignited the fire. >> is the crash considered an accident? >> yes. >> reporter: authorities confirming they've recovered a body. they have yet to identify the individual but family members say it was nathaniel moody, a

husband and father described as an experienced truck driver. >> his sister called me and said, ike, she said, the state troopers just left teresa in jersey and they told her they pulled the body from the truck. >> reporter: the commercial truck had been carrying 8,500 gallons of gasoline, fueling intense flames, hot enough to compromise steel girders supporting the roadway. 160,000 vehicles rely on this section of i-95 each day, a main transportation artery now severed for weeks, if not months. pennsylvania's governor officially declaring the thoroughfare a faster and aaa warning it could have a sweeping impact across the region. >> this is going to have a ripple effect in terms of how people travel, how truckers deliver things, how people get north and south of here on their summer vacation, their summer road trips. >> reporter: snarled traffic already snaking through the philadelphia area.

>> you can see the traffic is really building up and really going all the way down. >> reporter: as commuters brace for the long road ahead. >> nbc's emilie ikeda reporting, a tragedy and a traffic nightmare. so "wheel of fortune" host pat sajak announced he is retiring from the game show after its upcoming season. >> that was fast. >> in a tweet posted last night, sajak wrote, the 41st season will be his last, noting he will have more to say in the following months. he has hosted the show with vanna white since its debut in 1983, welcoming two of the most iconic hosts in tv show history. sajak will stay on as a consultant for three years after stepping down from his on-camera role. but that is the end of an era.

>> my god, in a huge way. my parents watched it every night. they loved it. my grandma watched it. >> he started in reagan's first term. think about that. >> a long time ago. >> does vanna stick around for the new host? is it a new day for "wheel of fortune," we'll see. it's a paycheck to play golf. >> exactly. >> are we going to have 41 years? >> i was just thinking that. we're almost halfway there. >> guys, just stop. by the way, we have a couple of sweet 16s to announce. we'll start with you. >> lucy, my daughter, will be 16 years old tomorrow. johnny knows what it feels like. >> my daughter is 16 today. this is the ten-year anniversary of the passing of my dad, so it's a bittersweet day. >> for sure. let's see, your daughter is 16.

so when "morning joe" started she was 2? >> she was born the year we started, in 2007. >> 16 years. >> stop. >> lucy was born -- >> i don't know math. >> lucy was born when we were messing around on the set and we would go through the tunnel to the outlet malls and just go in a door. we were taking phone calls from people. >> i had a hard time driving in. >> filling in three hours. >> wow. >> if you guys carry on, she'll be 41 with her own kids. just putting it out there. >> start doing it back in the days. nobody would come on the show and we would have pat buchanan call us for 15 minutes and at the end chris would say, let's go. do you think you can stick around for another block? sure, joe. >> those were rough years. >> we had to wake walter isaacson up. he wasn't a morning person.

he would be lying in bed. >> it was very interesting. >> walter isaacson, half asleep in bed. >> we couldn't get our own reporters to come on the show. what were those idiots doing? >> a great special, to show all the old clips, that would be -- >> i think we're on 16. >> we did that last year. we did a huge celebration. i'm sorry you missed it. >> we didn't invite donny. >> we've burned most of the tapes. >> yeah. >> you don't want to go there. it's been a long time. >> pat told us to burn the tapes. >> it was easy to get to. >> what? no, i would drive and park in the wrong outlet store and walk across two football size field parking lots to get to the studio. >> cut rate. >> i did get some good deals. >> speaking of pat, one of the

great answers of all time on "morning joe," someone was asked him about the 1960s and the republicans, had democrats had stolen illinois. why didn't you protest it? it was so obvious. because we stole kentucky. >> not so funny today. coming up, nbc news -- >> a lyle loosey-goosey. >> coming up, nbc news national security expert lays out how the florida judge overseeing trump's trial could hobble the justice department's case. plus, nikki haley takes a small step toward criticizing the former president. she doesn't kick sideways. she kind of kicked forward. we'll show you what she had to say. "morning joe" is coming right back.

the chase ink business premier card is made for people like sam who make...? ...everyday products... ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas... ...a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.

hey all, so i just downloaded the experian app because i wanted to check my fico® score, but it does so much more. this thing shows you your fico® score, you can get your credit card recommendations, and it shows you ways to save money. do so much more than get your fico® score. download the experian app now. trying to control my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ enough was enough. i talked to an asthma specialist and found out my severe asthma

is driven by eosinophils, a type of asthma nucala can help control. now, fewer asthma attacks and less oral steroids that's my nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. talk to your asthma specialist to see if once-monthly nucala may be right for you. and learn about savings at nucala.com there's more to your life than asthma. find your nunormal with nucala. ♪inspiring music♪ ♪ start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand.

what about those pictures? was that a good look for the former president to have boxes in a bathroom? >> i don't know, is it a good picture to have boxes in a garage that opens up all the time? a bathroom door locks. look, i don't want people to take these documents away, vice president pence. but as a senator, you know what concerns me is you have these, a lot of these documents behind a corvette in a garage with the door open and you've got a son, hunter biden, who is in and out. there's a lot of concerns. >> my mom and dad, they had no problems calling talk shows when i was a 31-year-old congressman. usually they would yell at the talk show host and go, my, you can't do that.

if i did that when i was in congress, my mom would call me up and she would say, you need to get on the next plane, come home, because you're hue mail humiliating the family. they would be, like, what's wrong with you? that was humiliating. >> nobody cares. >> someone has to care. that's what we were saying about rudy giuliani's family. at some point someone needs to stand forward. >> this is connected. no worries here. there's a new piece this morning entitled "gop response to trump indictment is dangerous and polarizing" and writes in part, quote, instead of finding excuses and deflecting blame, gop leaders should be concerned that this matter gets a thorough and fair examination in a courtroom. trump's legal and political fates rest with the assessment of a jury, not the irresponsible bullhorn assertions of politicians who are going more

to sow dissent and an alternative narrative. the irony is that these same individuals would tell us to let the facts speak for themselves and for the criminal justice system to be the ultimate arbiter if trump were not the one under scrutiny. collectively americans must be willing to shut out the political misdirection and understand that a court case involving a politician, even a former president and contender for the gop nomination need not be an existential moment for the rule of law, our democracy, and the principle, that no individual is above the law. end of story. kevin mccarthy could just say, no man is above the law, innocent until proven guilty, bye, and that would be fine. he can't help himself litigating this in the public eye and embarrassing the republican party once again. >> there's so much, these are the same people who say the reason why people are breaking into stores in san francisco and

destroying san francisco or portland or new york or washington is because there's no punishment that follows the crime. we must be tough, law and order, crime and punishment, it all goes together. you let somebody get away with a crime, and that's the way conservatives think. suddenly they're walking in and stealing everything off the shelf and you want to get a toothpaste and it has to be in a plastic container because the laws aren't being enforced. these are the same people -- and i agree with that, by the way. these are the same people who say if you steal nuclear secrets, if you break the law, if you violate the espionage act, we're going to let it go and we're going to attack the law enforcement officers that brought you to justice. by doing that, again, following their logic, they just send a message to other politicians, get away with whatever you want to get away with, including stealing america's most sensitive secrets and lying about having them and refusing

to turn them back in to the federal government. >> kevin mccarthy is the guy who has given donald trump license to continue this. remember, after january 6th, after an attempted coup against the united states government, he criticized it that night and flew down to mar-a-lago and put his stamp of approval. this is not low-level crime. this is stealing nuclear secrets, stealing war plans. kevin mccarthy, the speaker, knows this is wrong. he's been in congress for how long? he knows you don't go into a scif and slide a document or come out of the scif and tell anybody about what you've seen. he knows better and that makes it all the worse. he's going out for some political reason that is not clear to most of us, except to keep a small portion of the base happy. if he's thinking about winning a presidential election or these senate races or if he wants the governor's mansions back, most americans, whatever your party, whatever your ideology, you see that this document, this indictment, these photographs,

this description of what happened is bad and indefensible, and yesterday speaker mccarthy and those are defending it. >> you like to label them insurrectionists, freaks and weirdos. other than that small group, is there a republican that if you said nobody is above the law and stealing secrets is serious, you know a lot of republicans. wouldn't they go, yeah, i agree with that? that's what i can't understand from my political point of view. it's such an obvious winning strategy and, by the way, imagine desantis -- i can't stand the guy, but imagine if he stood up that, how people would galvanize around him? >> that would be respectful. >> you stole nuclear secrets. but what about the corvette and the garage? what about -- that doesn't work. you stole nuclear secrets. you didn't return them. you lied. you lied to your own lawyer.

you lied to the fbi. you lied to the doj. you lied to everybody about this. you didn't secure them. people that were in your party could have actually gotten access to some of the most top secret information that we had, most classified documents. yeah but what about hillary's emails? it's a losing proposition. republicans have to know this. this is a terrible way to go into 2024 which is why you see a lot of conservatives on -- whether it's andy mccarthy, others are saying this is a bad look. >> countless republicans have been corrupted by donald trump. we are joined by claire shipman. she and katty kay are out with "the power code, more joy, less ego, maximum impact for women and everyone." i want to back into this. there's a connection here. the theme of the book we will

get to in a moment. you have incredible findings. power seems to corrupt men more than women. you found that researchers discovered this. why? >> you know that phrase, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, for women that might not be true. women retain their empathy and their connect to people below them. women in leadership, 80% less likely to be charged with corruption than men in leadership. the more women we give power to, perhaps the less corruption. >> the overall point of the book is about redefining power. give us a sense of the theme. >> essential what we found is that men and women view power quite differently. men tend to view power as a power over, a hierarchy, more ego filled. this is a sociologists used.

we saw women think of power as power to. there's a why implicit in the way we think about power. why do we want this? what do we want to get done? broadening this definition will make power more appealing for women and a lot healthier. >> redefining it a little bit. other things you found is -- this is interesting, because it matches a lot of the work i'm doing with know your value. most women don't want power. >> what got us to write this book was, we're not there yet. 10% of ceos are women. it's not enough. >> do you not expect that change radically? look at the crisis of young men in america, 60% of graduates from college is women, it's just a matter of time in your time, we're going to have equity most likely among ceos and leaders. >> you would think so. it's not happening fast enough.

we stalled at the top. those have been the figures for the last few years. we have been better educated than men for a while. we wanted to address this issue, what's happening with power. then we found this research from harvard which shows however you look at power, women don't really want it. we find the cost of getting it are too high and that power itself is -- this zero sum game nature of power, more for you means less for me, the dominance of power, women don't find it appealing. we turn the proposition on its head. women are doing everything right. we lead well. we are educated. we have all of the right qualifications. what we need do is change the way power works in organizations. that would be better for everybody. >> that gets at another point, which is that men and women define power differently. men view it as a zero sum game. if donny has says, i don't have it. women look at it differently. >> that's part of what we found. to joe's point, we would have thought there would be more

women at the top. women opt out. what we found is part of the clash, the supply and demand problem is women use it differently. we're almost other -- we start to reach the upper levels and we don't get to the top, either we're opting out or viewed as not enough. what we are seeing -- a big part of the book is about men. men are stuck in a pretty narrow lane. i was talking to my son about this last night. there's a sense -- even men we talked to who are doing things differently, trying to stay at home, be the primary caregiver, one said, i feel like a failure. i failed at the one thing in life i was supposed to do, which is be the primary breadwinner. until men can be viewed by society as having a broader set of possibilities, it's hard for us to redefine and balance it. >> men are stuck in a box they don't want to be in. finally, women will never get power outside of the home until

our marriages look less like the 1950s. >> what are you looking at? does anybody here think i run anything in my house? >> this is the point. >> the other great tip we learned for women, let her finish. let me finish. a clear way to redistribute power is by saying, let her finish. i'm sure no one ever says that to me. that would be a good way do it. the thing about marriage, we are very good at very many things. we have not figured thought to put 36 hours into a 24-hour day. until we have more of the redistribution of chores, caregiving, all of the plans of those chores at home, we can't have power outside of the home. >> we found men and women -- when women earn more than men which is increasingly the case -- >> they do more at home?

>> not only do they do more at home, they lie about it to the census bureau. we are invested in the status quo. we want men who are going to do all this. actually, this is a hard situation for men. >> it's hardwired. i want to talk about something else that's not only hardwired but may be a physiological difference. they are talking to a group of young women in college. they ask, when will women start being treated just like men? she said, never. she said, first of all, if you could get me testosterone, put it in a bottle, she's like, that's rocket fuel. i don't get it. we understand, there are inherent differences that make men dumb and focused on, i need to shoot through that wall, do whatever it takes to win, i will die trying. women don't think that way.

i'm not saying i have ever thought that way. but here is the thing, my question is, so what do you tell your daughter, what do you tell donny's daughter, willie's daughter, my daughter to say, listen, they are crazy, they are going -- they will wake up at 2:00 in the morning with sweat, they will be chewing through -- what's not the work around, but what's the way to compete in the workforce with that and get ahead of that? >> it's a balance. all the data shows that the way women lead works. men have the terrific way of leading. women have a terrific way of leading. until the way we use power is accepted, it's hard for us. we're saying, women aren't always going to behave in the same way as men. >> one of the great things we found is from neuroscience -- a lot of the book is from data and academics and scientists. we boil it all down into tips.

one is that you can prime yourself for power. you can make your brain feel more powerful if you spend 15 minutes before a big interview or a pay raise negotiation, 15 minutes thinking of a time you were powerful, five minutes with a pen and paper and you write it down and studies have shown people who do this have better success in job interviews than people who don't. the impact can last for days. >> we would argue that the second part of our subtitle, less ego, is essential for power. we see all that right now. we don't need to say a lot. the less ego, more focus on the why, we think is just something that works for everybody. >> i think women -- i think -- i think women are better leaders. >> superior, period. >> i think they're superior at running corporations. i think they're superior in government. that's kind of like -- there are

a lot of people that are terrible running for president who would be extraordinary presidents. i think that's the dilemma we have. women would be extraordinary ceos. how do you get from here to there? >> you change the culture of the organization. there's not one silver bullet. what the book lays out is that -- little bits of a puzzle and we can all be part of building that new types of organization that puts an emphasis on value and connection and all of the things that women are doing. but actually values them. >> it's "the power code, more joy, less ego, maximum impact for women and everyone." congratulations, yet another amazing book. >> congratulations. >> birthday presents for our daughter. it's the top of the third hour of "morning joe." former president donald trump is just hours away from his first

scheduled court appearance as a federal criminal defendant to face charges he misled investigators and mishandled classified documents after leaving the white house. nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake has more. >> reporter: donald trump poised to make history as a federal criminal defendant. facing arraignment before a judge this afternoon. the former president returning to florida monday, cheered on by a small group of supporters outside his golf club. >> it's a disgrace. it's a witch hunt. the whole thing is a scam. >> reporter: mr. trump remains defiant in the face of a 37 count indictment, accused of mishandling classified documents and obstructing efforts to retrieve them. according to the indictment, it included top secret information about weapons capabilities of the u.s. and foreign countries, u.s. nuclear programs and potential u.s. military vulnerabilities. >> our laws that protect

national defense information are critical for the safety and security of the united states. >> reporter: mr. trump on social media attracting the indictment as third world and vowing to appoint a real special counsel to investigate joe biden. kevin mccarthy and republicans rallying to mr. trump's defense. >> the idea of equal justice is not playing out here. that's a real concern to all americans. >> reporter: some of mr. trump's rivals say the charges are serious, including former new jersey governor chris christie. >> the conduct is awful. we are in a situation where there are people in my own party blaming doj. how about blame him? he did it. >> reporter: mr. trump's former u.n. ambassador, nikki haley. >> if this indictment is true, is what it says is the case,

president trump was incredibly reckless with our national security. >> reporter: it's a full circle moment for mr. trump who in 2016 relentlessly attacked hillary clinton for storing classified emails on a personal server, arguing it disqualified her from the presidency. >> in my administration, i'm going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. no one will be above the law. >> reporter: amid calls for protests from mr. trump and some of his allies, miami's mayor and police chief say they are confident they have the resources to keep the city safe. >> we are taking this event extremely serious. we know that there's a potential of things taking a turn for the worse. >> garrett haake with that report. a source tells nbc news, attorney todd blanche will represent trump at today's hearings. it's not clear who else might represent the former president.

joining the conversation, we have david rhode and anthony coli. he was the top spokesman at the department of justice under attorney general merrick garland. also with us, nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss. >> michael, what are we looking at today? >> we are looking at something we should never have had to expect in history. i loved what you were talking about a little bit earlier, the fact that -- look at the history of the republican party. the last 70 years. republican party, at least styled itself as the party of national security and law and order. when donald trump became president, 2017, there were some people who were stupid, such as myself, who thought that one restraint on donald trump since

the constitution does not put enough restraint on presidents who seek power, one restraint might be the fact that republicans would say, we're the party of law and order, we're the party of national security, we will restrain our president from doing certain things. not only did that not happen, but look what's happened in recent months. just as you and the others in the group were saying. 70 years ago, dwight eisenhower put nixon on his party. he did that because that was the essence what the republican party is. few are willing to oppose that. larger picture -- i will say this briefly. first president in history federally indict and charged

today. never seen it before. also to be accused of violating the espionage act. can you imagine dwight eisenhower lying and taking documents back to gettysburg, lying to the government about them, holding them back and at least raising the question, did he show them to foreign governments or sell them? you couldn't have imagined most presidents even thinking such a thing. >> it is an extraordinary moment, a low moment for this country that donald trump -- >> he doesn't deny he took them. he doesn't deny this. and yet republicans still continue to back him. >> right. none of his defenders deny it. they just point and engage in what aboutism. the republicans are supposed to be the party of national security and law and order. you had the senate and house doing absolutely nothing over the last four or five years to hold him in check. still not doing anything.

it's crazy our founders actually set up a system where they foresaw a would-be tyrant becoming president of the united states. they never in a million years imagined they would have a congress compliant to the tyranny. we have a republican congress compliant to an ex-president's stealing of documents. it's crazy. anthony, let's talk about transparency. i was surprised that the judge is not going to allow phones, not going to allow recordings, not going to allow audio even of what's going on inside there. why? >> that's exactly right. my hope is that once this trial gets underway and judge cannon, a loose cannon if you will, judge cannon takes a moment and recognizes this extraordinary moment that be are facing in american history. i think what is critical -- david and i were talking about

this earlier. what is absolutely critical in this moment in time is that facts remain front and center. my hope is that once we get to the trial, actually happening, a live audio recording will be allowed, will be accessible to the press and the public, that will go a long way of ensuring accountability, keeping the facts first. and i think pushing back on some of the mischaracterization we have seen from republicans that started even before, joe, the indictment was unsealed. >> right. >> david, let's talk about judge cannon. you are writing a piece about her. most experts over the last couple of days have come on, she was a trump-appointed judge, ran interference for him that was shot down by an appeals court. the same thing could happen here, could it not? if she makes rulings that are objectionable, they will be shot down by the circuit court.

are the concerns over her presiding over this case well founded or not? >> i think they are given these past things. she went out of her way to back trump's arguments. she inserted an argument he hadn't made, it was damaging to his personal reputation if the fbi searched his home. the good thing is, this appellate court -- i keep trying to be the optimistic voice. there are two trump appointees on the appeal court. they twice overruled judge cannon. but she has tremendous power. she controlled how quickly the trial proceeds. will this happen before the 2024 election? she oversees the choosing of all the jurors. she will decide which evidence the jury hears. >> wow. >> it's an extraordinary moment. one analyst told me, this is the most important criminal trial in american history. i want the american public to trust our court system.

i gave anthony a hard time when he was the spokesperson for merrick garland, but i agree an audio would be great. it would be great if prosecutors would request a live audio feed. the more information the american public gets, the better. >> to underline how badly judge cannon mishandled her assignment before legally, i just want to read, again, just quick excerpts and conclusions from the 11th circuit, which we said it before, it's a really conservative circuit. one of the most conservative in america. they wrote this. her special exception, quote, would defy our nation's foundational principal. would defy -- judge cannon's view of the law would, quote, defy our nation's foundational principal that our laws apply to all without regard to numbers, wealth or rank. they go on and say the law is clear. we cannot write a rule that

allows any subject of a search warrant to block government investigations after the execution of the warrant. then again, speaking to her ruling, they go, nor can we write a rule that allows only former presidents to do so. either approach, again talking about what she suggests, would be a radical reordering of our case law, limiting the federal court's involvement in criminal investigation. both would violate bedrock separation of powers, limitations. we're not talking about here -- 11th circuit court, she may have misread this. maybe she was looking at some administrative law. no. they say, her view undermines foundational principals in our constitution and in our common law. never, in all of my years, reading opinions, i have never seen any judge eviscerated to

this extent. >> equal justice under law. it's that simple in terms of the american ideal. then that opinion, again, was written by two trump appointees. >> really conservative jurists. >> our system can handle this. there can be corrections made. to be fair to her, she could be humbled by this. she could take a different approach, like it or not, this trial will define her career, her legacy. >> she understands the 11th circuit, the very conservative 11th circuit -- i predicted this before. i know some judges on the 11th circuit. they are very conservative but you don't mess around with them. >> that's right. what surprised me not just about the strongly worded -- the strong words of that opinion, but how quickly they decided this. right? it did not take months or years for them to dismiss judge cannon

and take the ruling away from her. >> anthony, you talked about some of the misinformation that's been out there, even since before the indictment was unsealed. one of the themes we heard, the news came out the former president had been indicted, is that this is joe biden himself targeting his political opponent. the trump campaign is calling it election interference. sorry to take you back to remedial classes. but it's important to establish how this works. how the justice department is separate from the white house and how even the attorney general himself separated himself from this by appointing a special counsel. >> that's exactly right. i was at the justice department in november of last year when the attorney general made this decision to, number one, appoint a special counsel and, numbe two, to choose jack smith. he did that to ensure independence and accountability. i think to also reassure the american people that whatever decision was reached in this case, that it was indisputably determined by the facts and the law.

fast forward now nine months later, we see in bill barr's words, overwhelming evidence, damning evidence. there's not a hint of political interference here. i will say one additional thing about special counsel smith. he spent almost his entire career as a part of doj's career workforce. he was not somebody like me who was a political appointee and comes and goes with a political administration. he doesn't have a political bone in his body. there are not political people investigating and prosecuting this case. >> you know what's interesting? mike gave a speech about how -- back to the 2020 election -- the courts have maintained the integrity we need to keep

from -- >> i talked about how the legislative branch failed misser -- miserably. 63 federal judges said no to the bs claims. the united states supreme court said no. three of trump's own appointed justices said no. in a pennsylvania case, you had the two most conservative saying there aren't -- i agreed with the argument. it was about a supreme court going in and rewriting rules for the legislature. it posed a really good constitutional question. this is important. we should really address this. david, they said, make no mistake, we need to do this for the next election. this election, there was not widespread fraud that would overturn the results here. those are the two most conservative justices.

you had judges who maybe had been members of the aclu, judges in the federalist society, coming together, certainly during that difficult time, but doing the right thing. >> again, years ago i covered wars, this is not a game. people are very worked up about this trial. it's a critical moment. donald trump is going to get a fair trial. he has a florida jury. a jury of his peers in west palm beach and judge cannon who we see is clearly at least a fair judge if not a friendly judge for donald trump. americans should watch this closely. there should be live audio recording, tons of trasparency. >> a columnist has a new piece entitled, republicans keep failing the same test, in which he writes, most things in life, and else a basic respect for democracy and the rule of law, have to be cultivated. what is striking about the republican party is the extent to which it has for decades now

cultivated the opposite. a highly instrumental view of which our laws and rules are legitimate in so for as they allow for the concentration of power in republican hands. most republicans won't contend trump. there are his millions of voters and the challenges with breaking from the party. trump is the propensity of lawlessness within the republican party. he is what the party and its most prominent figures have been building toward for nearly half a century. i think he knows it and i think they do, too. >> michael beschloss, it's interesting, i was reading an op-ed yesterday.

he talked about a document he had seen. he said, this generation it seems, evangelicals have twisted things around, and they have been worshipping the power, going after the power, instead of focusing on the power of jesus. that was his view, that they got things backwards. here you have the republican party, the law and order party, as you said, before that always talked about law and order and national security, they now have also twisted and contorted to such an extent that they want to de-fund the fbi. they apologize for people who bash the brains in of cops. they have their leading candidate actually saluting convicts. it's really -- i say it all the time. if this guy were a double agent for the democratic party, starting in 2015, he could not

have undermined the core of this party any more than he has. >> amen, joe. the other thing is that as you both know and everyone in this group knows, the founders, when they were designing our political system, they were trying to do something that was the mirror image of england and the autocracies of europe. this was not going to be about power, about celebrating one man, and they were usually kings, not queens. this was going to be a system of laws and extremely carefully designed, largely by james madison, to avoid just what you were saying, the fear of alexander hamilton, that some demagogue would come along and trash it all. it has taken two centuries, but now we have the republican party coming up against all of that. may i say a word about judge cannon that connects to this?

>> please. >> i'm saying, the way she behaved before, she was reprimanded by her superiors. she botched that case. if we were getting surgery, would we want to go to a surgeon that botched an operation the first time? number two, we're at a time just as you are all saying, this could be the most important criminal trial in american history. do we really feel sanguine about this being in the hands of a judge who is a trump supporter, member of the federalist society, demonstrated in that earlier case, or earlier part of this case, that she had an ax to grind? the third thing -- i will close with this. a lot of people in this country expected this trial to be in d.c. with a federal judge in d.c. it was only a few days ago that people suddenly discovered that this trial was going to be not in d.c. but in south florida.

not only in south florida, but perhaps in west palm beach, a trump stronghold. you have the trump stronghold, a judge who showed she was biased and was reprimanded for being incompetent. just as you were saying, is not permitting transparency, not even recording devices in the courtroom. this doesn't look great at a time that our court system is under a great cloud. >> it really doesn't. i will say -- we were talking about this. the fact that she was in the federalist society, the fact that she's appointed by donald trump. we all saw a lot of cases that donald trump thought he was going to win while he was president and even after that he didn't whether it went in front of federal society judges, that slammed him down. the different in this case is what she's shown us, what she ruled. you have federalist society

members, trump appointed members from the 11th circuit saying that she was -- they didn't say she was biased, but it's obvious she was so biased that her ruling would undermine foundational beliefs that have held our judicial system intact for over two centuries. >> there's so much to wonder about, as david pointed out, which is when the trial will take place, does it come up next year, do they try to follow through on their reputation as having a rocket docket to get it within 70 days? that's too short in this case. does this play out in the middle of the republican national convention? she controls the evidence, that's the most important part. the timing will be very interesting. is he on trial as we head to election day? >> in georgia, what happens? >> michael beschloss, david rhode and anthony coley, thank

you all. it's great to have you on. coming up, we just played a little of what chris christie had to say about the indictment of donald trump. we have much more of his attacks against the former president. >> they are tough. >> you are watching "morning joe." orning joe. the subway series is elevating your favorite subs. why mess with the sweet onion teriyaki, chuck? man, this aint messin', it's perfectin'! with marinated chicken and double cheese. sweet and savory... ...kinda like you and me, chuck. bye, peyton. try the refreshed favorites at subway today. ♪ you got a minute? how about all weekend? let's go. ahora! i'm a miami hotel. i'm looking for someone who loves art deco elegance, good times, and unexpected flavors. someone who likes it hot but knows how to keep their cool.

a white-sand beach where you can see the sunrise? way better than whatever you were going to binge-watch this weekend. and you could be here in half the time. find me at hotels.com we're traveling all across america talking to people about their hearts. ooh, take this exit. how's the heart? i feel like it's good. you feel like it's good? how do you know when it's time to check in on your heart? how do you know? let me show you something. it looks like a credit card, but it is the kardiamobile card. that is a medical-grade ekg. want to see how it works? yeah. put both thumbs on there. that is your heart coming from the kardiamobile card. wow! with kardiamobile card you can take a medical-grade ekg in just 30 seconds from anywhere. kardiamobile card is proven to detect atrial fibrillation, one of the leading causes of stroke. and it's the only personal ekg that's fda-cleared to detect normal heart rhythm, bradycardia and tachycardia. how much do you think that costs? probably $500. $99!

imagine giving that to your dad for father's day, that kind of peace of mind. this year, give dad peace of mind for father's day with kardiamobile card. now just $79 at kardia.com or amazon.

imagine you're doing something you love. rsv could cut it short. ♪ rsv is a contagious virus that usually causes mild symptoms but can cause more severe infections that may lead to hospitalizations... ...in adults 60 and older... ...and adults with certain underlying conditions, like copd, asthma, or congestive heart failure. talk to your doctor and visit cutshortrsv.com. bridgett is here. like copd, asthma, or congestive heart failure. she has no clue that i'm here. she has no clue who's in the helmet. are you ready? -i'm ready! alright. xfinity rewards creates experiences big and small, and once-in-a-lifetime.

republican presidential candidate, former new jersey candidate, chris christie spoke about the trump indictment in a cnn town hall last night. >> it is a very tight, very detailed, evidence-laden indictment. the conduct in there is awful. put aside taking the documents in the first place. but then when you start getting asked, anderson, in may of '21,

nicely, with a letter from the archivists saying, can you give them back, and you ignore it, ignore it, ignore it, then they come with a grand jury subpoena and according to the indictment, you tell the lawyers, tell them we don't have anything, even though you have dozens of boxes of material. that's obstruction of justice if it's true. this is vanity run amok. ego run amok. he is going to put this country through this when we didn't have to go through it. i did this for seven years in new jersey. we did 130 political corruption prosecutions without a loss. what i can tell you for sure i know about that indictment is there's probably about a third of the evidence they have is in that indictment. >> there's more? >> guaranteed a lot more. when you are a prosecutor, you never put every card on the table before the trial. there's going to be a lot more. don't be fooled. there's a lot more information

to come when they go to trial, specifically i think there are going to be a lot of witnesses who worked for donald trump who are now going to be testifying against him. >> you know him very well. why do you think he did it? >> he couldn't -- he cannot live with the fact that he lost to joe biden. he can't live with it. look, i watched the way joe biden is performing. i would be bummed out if i lost to joe biden. the fact is, he did. he wants to continue to pretend he is president. he wants the trappings of the presidency around him. i think one of those trappings is these documents. we are in a situation where people are in my own party are blaming doj. how about blame him? he did it. he hasn't won a damn thing since 2016. three-time loser. 2018 we lost the house. 2020 we lost the white house. we lost the united states senate

a couple of weeks later in 2021. in 2022, we lost two more governorships, another senate seat and barely took the house of representatives when joe biden had the most incompetent first two years i have seen in my life. loser, loser, loser. >> wow. when you do that, it's good. but that was pretty effective. he laid it out there and came in at the end with loser, loser, loser. >> i'm just a poor country lawer. he is a prosecutor from the big city. >> it's true. that makes kevin mccarthy so confusing. this guy loses for you. and you come up with the most pathetic defense. >> it's strange. >> bathroom doors have locks? >> how good chris christie was last night. the prosecutor in chris christie -- we're not talking about the content. we're just talking about his argument, how he delivered the argument. he laid him low. >> he was excellent last night.

he was very clear in his criticism of donald trump. >> this we know. >> read the indictment. he said, it is indefensible. stop talking about everything being weaponized. blame a guy who took military plans, nuclear secrets and stuffed them in a shower at mar-a-lago and allegedly was showing them to people. does it matter? is there a lane for chris christie in this race? are there enough republicans who are fed up with donald trump? as john pointed out, there weren't any applause for any of the lines he was delivering last night. he was telling the truth, but there wasn't a big ovation like donald trump got. >> i'm not sure how this town hall was set up. >> at least the truth actually got in the front door. >> that's right. >> of a republican event. got through the front door. we must say, david, by a very skilled prosecutor. people are talking about chris christie's lane. does he have a lane to victory?

i don't know if that's what he is focused on right now. it appears that -- not just for the hell of it. it appears he is interested in prosecuting the case against a man he believes has destroyed his republican party and now is doing things with these documents that could destroy the national security of the united states of america. >> there's also, joe, this amazing shakespeare drama of chris christie who prosecuted jared kushner's father and then was exiled from the trump inner circle, canned from what he thought would be a significant role. he is having his say now. i thought he had some incredibly acute observations last night. one that really struck me was the phrase, vanity run amuck. i have been looking at the

indictment. trump's former lawyer said trump told him, i don't want anybody looking through my boxes. i really don't. i don't want you looking through my boxes. it's that sense that the presidency, the documents, these secrets that millions of americans in uniform and in our intelligence services have worked so hard to gather, they are mine, and that's the thing that, to me, in this indictment that's so appalling. i think chris christie nailed it. i host republicans will see it. do they want to go to the wall to defend the things that are in this document? reaction from another republican running for president, what nikki haley had to say about donald trump's arraignment on federal judges,

now just a few hours away. now just a few hours away. identical twins bethany and stephanie both struggled with cpap for their sleep apnea. but stephanie got inspire, an implanted device that works inside the body. there's no reason to keep struggling. inspire. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, ♪ ♪ but i manage it well. ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell. ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance, ♪ ♪ at each day's staaart. ♪ ♪ as time went on it was easy to seee ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c. ♪ jardiance works 24/7 in your body to flush out some sugar! and for adults with type 2 diabetes

and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. jardiance may cause serious side effects including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital yeast or urinary tract infections. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction, and don't take it if you're on dialysis. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. ♪ jardiance is really swell, ♪ ♪ the little pill with a big story to tell. ♪ trelegy for copd. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on... ♪ [coughing] ♪ ...by, you know how i feel. ♪

if you're tired of staring down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, ♪ ♪ it's a new day... ♪ ...stop settling. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. take a stand, and start a new day with trelegy. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy, and save at trelegy.com

it appears nikki haley read the indictment. she's also criticizing the former president. on friday, the former u.n. ambassador tweeted in support of trump writing, this is not how justice should be pursued in the country. the american people are exhausted by the prosecutorial overreach, double standards and vendetta politics. then yesterday on fox news, nikki haley condemned trump. >> if this indictment is true, if what it says is actually the case, president trump was incredibly reckless with our national security. more than that, i'm a military

spouse. my husband is about to deploy this weekend. this puts our military men and women in danger if you are going to talk about what our military is capable of or how we would go about invading or doing something with one of our enemies. if that's the case, it's reckless, it's frustrating, and it causes problems. we're looking -- this is the second indictment. we are looking at possibly a third indictment coming in with georgia. >> i'm looking at what she said there. >> another person who worked for trump. >> u.n. ambassador. that's all you ask for in a leader. they can change their mind. right? she saw it and she said, if -- >> it's never too late. >> if this is true, this is incredibly reckless, damning. she has a personal reason for being concerned about it, because her husband is in the military. >> i think by her making it about her personal feelings with her husband, it brings us back

in the court of where ought to be. the most disturbing thing about what speaker mccarthy said is he acts as though if there was -- i don't care if it was a bolted lock on the door, that the documents had a right to be in the bathroom. they have moved this whole thing to like donald trump had the right to have the documents. didn't matter whether there was a lock. >> here is the thing. we keep forgetting this. i talk about it all the time. when i would go up and i would get intel documents, i would see documents, i would have a hearing, you need to go upstairs, you need to sit in there. they do everything but hose you down. maybe they just hosed me. maybe it was just me. i don't know. you go through all these steps. you put the phone here. you sit down. i will tell you, i wasn't intimidated like being around presidents and prime ministers

in small rooms, it didn't phase me. i always knew, put my hand here, i was nervous in there. the consequences were so great if you screwed up. i said it before, i had briefings on north korea in 1998 that i still won't talk about today. i'm sure it is totally fine. but everybody is trained. if they come and say, this is top secret, this is classified information, this is -- you cannot repeat this to anybody, here i am 30 years -- almost 30 years later, that sticks with you. kevin mccarthy is the same way. kevin mccarthy is not going in and stealing documents. kevin mccarthy is not taking documents out to california and throwing them in the bathroom at his surfer friend's house. he's not doing it. they know better. if you don't -- >> if you had taken any of those

documents to your congressional office at the time, it doesn't matter whether you had a lock on the door or not. they were not supposed to be out of the place that you were told to keep them. >> by the way, everybody is attacking the fbi. we all knew, you slip a document here, you go -- even to your congressional office, forget taking it out -- johnny law dog is there. the fbi and a big dog, i'm coming in, sniffing your room for documents or whatever. we all knew that. mccarthy knows that. he would never take it from a scif, even to his speaker's office, without authorization. the fbi would come calling. now they are trashing the fbi for doing to donald trump what they would do to them for much less. >> absolutely. i think that's the outrage of their defense, if you want to call it a defense. i think nikki haley, who i don't

agree on most things, was right to say, wait a minute, i'm going to take a change of mind here, which is fine. i think chris christie, who i don't agree with on many things, was excellent last night. i think he did what the republican party needs to do. let's have some standards return. >> exactly. our next guest wonders, what if hillary clinton had stolen the pentagon's plan for fighting iran and it remain missing a year later. we have the latest straight ahead on "morning joe." joe. i told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis symptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn't ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel, rinvoq is different and may help. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that can dramatically relieve

ra and psa symptoms, including fatigue for some. it can stop joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks. don't take if allergic to rinvoq as serious reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. done settling? ask your rheumatologist for rinvoq. and take back what's yours. learn how abbvie could help you save. ♪ ♪ - why are these so bad? - if i would've used kayak to book our car, we could have saved on our trip instead of during our trip. ughh - kayak. search one and done. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention

with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours. choose acid prevention. almost... just another word for not as good as mine. the queen sleep number c2 smart bed is now only $899 save $200. plus, free home delivery when you add any base shop now only at sleep number. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ ) -awww. -awww. -awww. -nope. ( ♪♪ ) constant contact delivers the marketing tools your small business needs to keep up, excel,

and grow. constant contact. helping the small stand tall.

the sleep number climate360 smart bed is the only smart bed in the world that actively cools, warms, and effortlessly responds to both of you constant contact. for up to 44 minutes more restful sleep per night. save $1,500 on the sleep number climate360 smart bed. shop now only at sleep number. big news, surprising news to a lot of us. the police commissioner, only a year and a half into the job, stepping down. what's going on? >> i don't know the inside. i know she did a very good job in terms of reshaping some

things and was getting some things done. i have not talked to the mayor. yesterday, i was out of town. she stepped down. i think many of us that saw her kind of turning things in a better way than had been done in the last several years are sad to see her go. but i think knowing mayor adams, he will have his choice of a good commissioner to replace her. he chose her in the first place. we will go live to miami ahead of donald trump's appearance inside a federal courtroom today. the very latest on the arraignment of the former president on criminal charges. plus, what is driving the day on wall street? straight ahead on "morning joe."

i'm your overly competitive brother. check. psych! really? dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. and if you don't have the right home insurance coverage, well you could end up paying for all this yourself. so get allstate.

nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention.

choose nexium. so, i got this app from experian. it's got everything i need to help my finances. got my fico® score, raised it instantly, i even found new ways to save. all right here. free. and fast. see all you can do with the free experian app. download it now.

to empathize the heart and the connection and the love and how much being in this place has been a relationship. i feel like that's something really special women often can bring to be an influence for young women, to be a role model for young girls and show them they're kpapable of, to be the role model i wish i had has a young woman. it's so powerful and means so much to me. >> it's the first female winner of "alone: frozen."

she is detailing her experience and her debut memoir entitled "never alone" a solo arctic survival journey. it is so nice to meet you. that was so incredible to watch that. you could really feel the power in that moment. i guess i want to hear more about you. i know the answer to this question tells us a lot. why did you decide to do that? >> that's a wonderful question. honestly, i had never pictured myself living in such an extreme environment, but heading into the wilderness to live with only the resources that i could gather from it has been the focus of my life. so getting to actually apply those skills for the long term was one of my dearest dreams. >> i'm told you never felt at home in the modern world, is

that correct? >> i was one of those people who felt like they were born in the wrong time, that what i was supposed to be doing was hunting and gathering. even as a kid, that's what all my childhood games revolved around. >> there's hunting and gathering and then there's being dropped in the middle of nowhere in freezing conditions. what are some of the most harrowing moments you confronted? >> that's a great question. the cold certainly, the very long-term starvation. this book is about my first time on alone which was season six. i'm a small woman. i'm 5'4". i dropped 50 pounds. it was incredibly physically grueling. >> that's incredible. >> those were all harrowing, but the being there wasn't anywhere near as harrowing or frightening

to me as one might think or as i thought going in, because the beauty of the place and feeling so wanted and seen and supported by this incredible wild landscape balanced all of the challenging parts and made it overall a beautiful, beautiful experience. >> you're dropped alone in the arctic. your take-away, which you write about beautifully in the book, is this experience brought on you more healing than suffering. can you explain that? because potentially freezing to death and starving to death seems like a lot of suffering to me. >> yeah. it's a good example of whether something is healing or suffering has more to do with our mental emotional makeup. >> is that later or in the moment? >> both. i think one thing was, as i talk about in the book, i was a bookworm. i was the proverbial kid who got

picked last for the softball team. i did not believe in my physical capacity, so being out there was healing in terms of my self-image. i literally had long-term chronic health issues clear up out there. i used to have a lot of joint pain. i had all of these chronic issues. when we go without eating our body kind of eats itself and it starts with the less functional parts, like the garbage that's sitting around in our body. it actually metabolizes those for energy. so i had long-term shoulder issues clear up. i had issues with my achilles tendon. i felt more vital in that experience than i had in my 20s and 30s. >> that's living in endless freezing conditions. >> sure. yeah. >> not just hours, days, weeks. >> when you have no warm place to go, you tend to acclimate to

the environment as opposed who when we live in cold climates and we go into our 70-degree toasty house, then our body doesn't adjust. >> you are incredible. the new book is entitled "never alone." thank you very much and congratulations on the book. >> thank you. and we are learning more about the four children who survived a small plane crash deep in the amazon jungle and spent the next 40 days along as rescuers worked tirelessly to find them. kelly cobiella has the latest. >> reporter: this morning the four siblings who survived 40 days in the amazon are slowly regaining their strength at a military hospital and talking about the moment they were found last friday by a team of

military and indigenous searchers. the eldest girl was carrying her 1-year-old sister and holding her other sister's hand. they ran to hug me, and leslie said, i'm hungry, the searcher says. the plane carrying them and their mother crashed may 1st in the amazon. it took two weeks to locate the wreckage. searchers found three adult bodies in the plane, but no children. the father of the two youngest children says the eldest told him their mother was alived for four days and told her children before she died that they had to leave. their grandfather says they stayed by the plane, surviving on the 3 pounds of casava flour they traveled with. then they started walking. searchers found clues, half eaten fruit, footprints, a baby

bottle, a tiny pair of shoes. their grandfather says leslie fed her 1-year-old sister baby formula until it ran out, then only water, the other siblings surviving on berries and seeds they found in the jungle. their family says the kids heard this recorded message in their grandmother's voice telling them to stop moving. the children finally found just in time. their grandfather says leslie was too tired to walk. the children now playing with each other, reading and drawing pictures, the hospital director said, including these thanking the military and indigenous search teams, one picture with the words always blessed. >> just incredible. it is exactly the top of the fourth hour of "morning joe." 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east.

mike barnicle and katty kay are with us. look at mike's chair. this is what he does to me all the time. >> empty chair. like clint eastwood at the republican convention, the empty chair. in just hours former president trump is scheduled to appear in federal court in miami to face charges he misled investigators and mishandled classified documents after leaving the white house. there you are, mike. sit down. the 76-year-old former president is set to appear before judge jonathan goodman at 3:00 eastern time when he will be arraigned alongside his codefendant and aide walt nauta. donald trump was indicted last week on 37 felony federal counts. once trump arrives at the

courthouse, he'll be processed and fingerprinted. it's not clear if a mug shot will be taken. the judge will also set bond and conditions of pretrial release, and trump will verbally enter a plea. a source tells nbc news attorneys todd blanch and chris kise will be representing trump at today's hearing. that's a new name. let's bring in state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg for more on what we can expect. >> good morning. it's going quite a show at the courthouse today. otherwise it will be pretty ordinary inside. trump is going to go in and get fingerprinted electronically and get his pretrial release through the initial appearance. he'll be released. he's not going to be kept behind bars pending trial. then he'll be arraigned.

the question was, did he find a lawyer. he did. it's his lawyer chris kise who was available all along but apparently he and boris epstein couldn't get along so they were sidelining him. so it's chris kiez and todd blanch today for donald trump. >> so you're a prosecutor in palm beach county, florida, a state prosecutor, the prosecutor for palm beach county. i'm curious. looking at these charges, looking at the judge and everything going into this case, how do you think the prosecutors are feeling today? >> i think they're feeling really good. what they did was a speaking indictment, where they gave the public the facts, because they wanted the public to buy into this in the court of public opinion. this is different than the new york indictment where we're left scratching our heads saying, is that it? here, they get into great detail

about the violations of the espionage act, the liedhiding oe documents, the lying. they had show and tell. they had that photo of the documents around the bathroom. >> we've seen in the past people like robert mueller allowing donald trump, bob barr everybody to play them just fiddles. so trump started yapping last week about the indictment and this witch hunt. we were hearing originally oh they're not going to release the indictment until tuesday, so trump's going to have all weekend. jack smith, he thought otherwise. i wonder if we finally have somebody who's not going to let donald trump disrupt proceedings and basically define the outlines of the debate around the case. >> for a guy like jack smith, who's never run for office

before, he's a political independent, a career prosecutor, he really does understand public opinion. he did this speaking indictment with pictures. and instead of allowing trump to say this is a political persecution, that's why they chose washington, d.c. where all the jurors are antifa, well, he did it in trump's back yard. he went into trump's back yard in a red state to get the indictment. i think that says a lot. so i think that trump may have met his match when it comes to jack smith, but i think he also learned from the mistakes before that bob mueller was still fighting the last war. he wasn't ready for this combat of our current divided political time. jack smith is. >> stay with us as we bring into the conversation john sail. you've read through this indictment. what's your assessment of the strength of the case against former president trump? >> it has a lot of detail, and

some of it is shocking, but there's one thing that's missing. there's a lot more that's going to come out during the course of the proceedings in the future. what's missing is why did former president trump keep these documents, why did he talk to people who aren't authorized to hear them? here you do not have to prove why he did it, but at least one juror is going to want to know why did he do it. was it his ego? was it for some nefarious purpose? i think we may learn that later on. we think there's a lot of detail here. this is just the beginning. dave said that jack smith is not going to let donald trump get the best of him. i can't help but think about the documentary about roy cohen. donald trump has been teflon. he will have three indictments when he's running and is the

frontrunner. roy cohen, who taught him everything he knows, was indicted three times by the feds and was found not guilty all the three times. i think that's emboldening donald trump. >> what do you think about some of that other evidence you say may be coming out? do you think that just because that's the way federal prosecutors work? they never reveal their entire hand at the beginning. >> first of all, there are going to be a lot of witnesses. the indictment states a lot of facts, not how they're going to prove it. there's a big obstacle. if donald trump was smart enough to let his lawyers try this case and raise defenses rather than doing the attack dog roy cohen style, there are classified documents here. there's a statute called sepa

which will delay the trial. defense lawyers have to get special clearance to review these documents. that all takes time. the irony is that the very documents they're going to have to use, which donald trump has a sixth amendment right to confront, they want to keep secret. there are some interesting issues that can be raised in this case if donald trump lets his lawyers be lawyers. >> at what point during discovery is there a witness list put forward? at what point during the trial do we find out what the prosecution has in terms of witnesses? >> under the federal rules, they are not required to turn over a witness list. now, many judges here have rules in their division just so the case moves along quickly that like a week before trial, two weeks before trial, the parties will exchange witness lists, but the federal rules do not require witness lists. >> we've heard a lot about judge

aileen cannon. she's not involved today, but she will of course be presiding over the trial. talk about the timing. what kind of role will she play? when will decisions get made as to when this trial will begin in earnest? >> it's a big deal that aileen cannon is assigned to this case. i'm going to look to see what happens at arraignment today. magistrate judge john goodman will set the next court date. i want to see how far out that is. then i want to see where the case will be done. will it be in west palm beach or ft. pierce or will it stay in miami? there's no connection between miami and mar-a-lago, it's just that miami perhaps has a bigger security infrastructure. we'll see there. i don't think judge cannon is going to tank the case or dismiss the counts or dismiss

major evidence. she could help in delays. she could allow more trump supporters to make it on the jury. ultimately if trump is found guilty, she could give him a sentence below the sentencing guidelines. those are the ways she can affect this case without being likely to to be overturned on appeal by the 11th circuit. on page 21 of the indictment, the doj and the office of special counsel jack smith detail a conversation they say occurred between trump and his lawyers in may of last year while meeting to discuss a subpoena that was issued for the return of the documents, at least one of his lawyers advised him to return the documents that

would be responsive to the subpoena, according to the indictment. trump's response was, quote, i don't want anybody looking through my boxes, i really don't. i don't want you looking through my boxes. it goes on, quote, well, what happens if we just don't respond at all or don't play ball with them? wouldn't it be better if we just told them we don't have anything here? well, look, isn't it better if there are no documents? joining us now, jonathan chase who writes about this in his latest piece entitled "why was trump so intent on keeping my boxes." katty kay. >> he did say one true thing. wouldn't it be better if there were no documents? yes, it would have been better.

it gets to an interesting question of trump psychology. we've heard he's somebody who likes to store things. i think it does get to the legal issue of intent as well. under the espionage act, that doesn't necessarily mean he's accused of spying or having the intent to spy. why do you think he was so keen to have these? and why, according to the indictment, was he sort of keen to show people that he had them and still be able to say, look, i have something that's secret? what does that tell us about him and about his state of mind? >> right. that's not the primary question that smith is trying to answer here, but it peeks through in little corners his motive. the most revealing one is where he's trying to pull this iran war plan and use it to smear

mark milley. general milley warned that if trump tries to launch a war with iran in the closing weeks of his presidency not to do it. now trump is angry about this story, so he's saying, look, milli is the one that wanted to go to war with iran, which is totally false. he's using these documents to get some inside information to smear his critics and enemies. that seems to be one of the important use of these papers that seems to explain why he was so intent on keeping them. >> if you talk to someone like michael cohen, who worked for trump. they're not pals now, but a lot of what he would say about trump's state of mind, the way he related with people was to have information on them and to use that information. what would lead us to believe that he wasn't intending to do

something with this information and this obsession with my boxes. again, there's no denial here that he actually took the documents. >> right. what i was writing about in this column is the defense some conservatives have made on his behalf, conservatives like ben shapiro and sean hannity, that he was holding onto the boxes because he's a kind of hoarder, he just likes his stuff, he didn't care about the content at all. he just likes things. i think the indictment shows pretty clearly that he was interested in the content of these boxes. he was going through them, if not carefully, quite a bit and pulling things out that seemed to have value. he didn't just want the boxes. he was interested in what was in these boxes and he saw some use for what was in these boxes. we don't have the full picture

of exactly how. >> there's no plausible deniability here either when you have the national archives asking for months, hey, if you took those boxes home from the white house, those belong to the government, could you give those back. it ultimately led to a subpoena and search by the fbi. even his own lawyers said you have to hand this stuff back over. he has no case to say, well, i didn't know i was supposed to give them back. how does that factor into all this and the trial we're going to see in the next months or year? >> that's the distinguishing factor between his classified documents problems and the problems that joe biden had and mike pence had. there's a lot of classified documents out there. sometimes people make mistakes and bring them back. the key difference is that donald trump was told over and over again you have our documents, you have to give them back. he kept saying no, no, no, and lied about it and constructed

this clumsy coverup. >> jonathan chat, thank you very much. the political arm of the network backed by billionaire charles koch is releaing ads aimed at donald trump, arguing if trump becomes the republican nominee next year, biden will ultimatelyreelected. take a look. >> trump says this time he'll beat biden, but 60% of voters don't want trump to be president. the only way biden wins is if we nominate trump again. the american people are ready to move on. >> what's biden's secret weapon? donald trump is the gop nominee. then biden wins the white house and gets the house and senate too. it's easy to see why democrats want trump.

it's biden's ticket to reelection. >> that's what's so preposterous when you start hearing trump apologists going, oh, he's trying to take out donald trump. no, no. joe biden knows his best shot of reelection is running against donald trump. >> political advisors i speak to say our best chance at a second term is if donald trump is the republican nominee. they'll say they can beat any republican, but they understand the race is very very different if it's a fresh face. if it's donald trump and they can rehash his record, his abhorrent behavior since leaving office and all of these criminal matters, they feel great think about dynamic. that's the race they want to have. >> it really taps into something you hear from republicans, even republicans who voted for donald trump twice, i'm tired, let's move on. >> it is exhausting.

>> you know who i bet is also tired? joe biden. he bears witness every single day to the damage this guy has done to this country. sure, he's the best guy that joe biden could face to win, no doubt about that. but i think he lives with the knowledge of the damage that one man, donald trump, has done to america. >> do you get a sense among the republican base that is standing by donald trump on these issues, do you get a sense from some of them that they are ready to move on? they want to win and they see donald trump as an obstacle to winning? >> it's mixed. some feel the more indictments there are, the more it is proof

that the government and the biden administration is out to get trump. they've almost hardened their support of him. some of them do say, yes, this is exhausting and if we see another indictment from georgia, it may push them over the edge. everybody kind of agrees there's exhaustion. i think we shouldn't forget the more misinformation that's put out there, you don't have to scratch very far into the internet to see the things people are looking at. >> those koch ads are the entire rationale for ron desantis' campaign. john cornyn of texas, a very conservative republican, said yesterday when asked about this indictment, quote, it's not good. he said, i think trump's

unwillingness to appeal to voters beyond his base makes it unlikely he could win a general election. >> in 2016 we went out with somebody in the obama administration halfway through the summer of 2016. everybody was talking about trump at every table around us, whether it was good, whether it was bad. i noticed something fascinating on friday night when we were out eating with friends. most of them obviously not big fans of donald trump. we were sitting around and we talked about new york, how beautiful new york was. we talked about baseball. it was the night before the belmont. so we were talking about the belmont. hey, did you know it was 50 years ago today that secretariat

won? we were about an hour through dinner and i thought to myself, on the day donald trump's indicted, nobody's talking about him. they would rather talk about a horse that won the triple crown 50 years ago and talk about anything else but an ex-president who just got indicted. >> that's a change. >> this is showing that americans are like ready to move on with their lives. >> tired. >> there's no surprise left in donald trump, no matter what he does, no matter what he says, it's no longer surprising. he has removed that from the way we exist each and every day. i would be interested in hearing from you, katty, whether or not when you interview all of these supposed republicans on both sides of the story, whether for trump or tired or trump, does anybody ever raise the issue that we speak to many times

during the course of each day, that this is a terribly damaged psychological individual, donald trump, terribly damaged? does anybody ever allude to that, raise it, mention it? >> no. they feel that he has been victimized and every single lawsuit they put in the same bracket, you see? that is further evidence. it's not to do with the facts of that case. it's to do with the mounting accumulated evidence that the state is out to get donald trump. >> i hear from evangelicals saying he's not a good man, we wouldn't invite him to our house, but he fights for us, he fights for the things that we want. so that's how some people have justified it in the past.

when it's a zero sum game, when it's a fight between donald trump and joe biden or donald trump and bernie sanders, when they play that game, what do you want me to do, vote for aoc and a martian? well, no. it's joe biden. he's from delaware. it's donald trump/ron desantis, donald trump/tim scott. suddenly it takes away a lot of that argument. >> if it ends up being joe biden versus donald trump again, it's a fairly easy thing to frame you have from the democratic perspective. basically it's, here's a good man, here's a bad man. you decide. we'll tell you why he's good and

we'll tell you why he's bad, because you already know he's bad. >> the things we're hearing from the hard right trump base just doesn't get out there. as i've said a million times, if hunter biden is indicted, people go, oh, that's a shame. somebody else gets indicted, okay, well, that's a shame. >> and this is a shame. >> this whole thing about the biden crime family and putting them on barges outside of gitmo, all of this stuff that they do and say about joe biden and everything else, again, that's not where the swing voters are. the swing voters are asking is he too old, can he carry on for four more years.

that's what they're talking about. they're not talking about hunter biden's laptop. again, if it's ron desantis -- how old is ron desantis, 48? >> it's dee-santis. >> what's donald trump, 77? not actually the fittest guy in the world, donald trump at 77, 78. kind of hard for him to make that argument, unlike ron desantis. >> polling suggests the president's age is an issue. that's part of why the white house is hoping trump is their opponent. they know that negates the age argument. the things republicans are talking about, the hunter biden stuff being the best example, it's to a hardening, but shrinking base of support.

they're not gaining any voters. they're preaching to the choir. in some cases the january 6th convict choir. they're pretty sure they're for trump already. this is a moment where independents and swing voters show they don't care about that stuffer. it's hard to imagine any scenario where trump has grown his support among the independent swing voters, suburban women who are going to decide this election. >> tomorrow is trump's birthday? >> yeah. happy birthday. >> who's older, donald trump, bill clinton or george w. bush? >> donald trump. >> wait. >> are you guys ready for this? trump was born in june of 1946. george w. bush was born in july of 1946. bill clinton was born in august

of 1946. the summer of '46, three presidents, one born in june, one born in july and one born in august. is that not crazy? >> that's your party trick. >> coming up, new inflation data just released that could be a major influence on the fed's next decision on interest rates. dom chew joins us with that. plus more signs of san francisco's struggling downtown. hotel books are experiencing their worst stretch in at least 15 years, and some owners are signaling they may leave the once thriving market. also ahead, a new development in the controversial deal between the pga and liv golf. we'll be right back. pga and liv golf we'll be right back.

- elites. now that we've made travel so expensive, we have this hotel to our...selves..? - how'd you get here? - kayak! they compared hundreds of travel sites to find a great deal on my flight, car, and hotel. - kayak. search one and done. [whistle] rover! he will bark at you once, but then you're best friends for life. helicopter on your finger to get his attention like this. king king... ♪ he loves people. can't wait. ♪♪

my name is shannon knight, and i own little knights daycare. carolina sports incorporated. a paradise for parents. lomita feed, current caretaker and owner. we did not know anything about the employee retention credit. that is a legitimate tax credit. so innovation refunds has really helped guide me through the process. just had to get a few of my records together, submit that, and they made it as painless as possible. i can't thank innovation refunds enough

for what they did. narrator: the man with the troublesome hemorrhoid enters the room. phil: excuse me? hillary: that wasn't me. narrator: said hillary, who's only taken 347 steps today. hillary: i cycled here. narrator: speaking of cycles, mary's period is due to start in three days. mary: how do they know so much about us? narrator: your all sharing health data without realizing it. that's how i know about kevin's rash. who's next? wait... what's that in your hand? no, no, stop! oh you're no fun. [lock clicks shut] with the freestyle libre 2 system, know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. manage your diabetes with more confidence. freestyle libre 2. try it for free at freestylelibre.us

it's a good thing the fed chairman called us to his barbecue last month. i think we helped him sort through this inflation thing. >> he makes a mean brisket. >> the inflation rate cooled last month to its lowest annual rate in about two years. the consumer price index, a measure of changes in the number of goods and services, increased just 0.1% in may, bringing inflation for the last 12 months down to 4%. >> what about the laptop, mike? >> what about hunter?

i want to bring in the man who knows about this. you want to talk to mike barnicle? >> no, no. seriously on hunter biden, what is the holdup here? it's been four years. you either indict him or don't. >> can we go to dom now? >> i'm here. >> thanks for staying in the bullpen. there are a lot of relieved people in washington, d.c. right now. 0.1%. that is a great headline. >> by the way, i think the best brisket i ever had was in austin, texas. if you look at the markets, right now things are calm.

the dough is up 92 points. it's not spectacular, but it's also not dropping. the sense is that inflation is still a clear and present danger, but that it continues to show signs of slowing down. that might be one of the reasons you are seeing markets hold onto gains. that headline month-to-month gain of .1 is the lowest since going back to march of 2021. that's the good news. there is, of course, still bad news. that comes from that so-called core inflation rate, which strips out the effects of food and energy prices. it's arguably where the fed is more focused. that core rose .4% which means a year over year gain of 5.3%. all of those measures were

within economists' expectations. we have the fed doing a decision tomorrow. financial markets, they are pricing in now a near certainty that the fed will pause and not raise rates tomorrow when the afternoon decision comes around. that might be one of the reasons why you're seeing markets react a little bit more positively. >> this has been an albatross around the administration's neck and the people of the country's neck as they try to buy things. they're trying to roll into a campaign year and say we have historically low unemployment and now inflation is heading in the right direction. this obviously is welcome news politically for them.

>> inflation was a problem. they admit they were slow to address it in the first summer of 2021 to have administration. they now feel optimistic. they're going to like this number certainly. there is a hope here that the nation can avoid a recession. >> dom, for years now we talked about san francisco, the problems san francisco has had. i love it. it's magical city. i've always been in love with san francisco. whenever you talk about the problems san francisco has, you'll get absolutely swarmed on twitter. what are you talking about? it's safer now than it's ever been. it's sort of like the argument, are you going to believe me or

your lyin' eyes? people are leaving san francisco. you have hotel chains saying we give up. >> so this resonates with me a lot, because i am a bay area native, born and raised in the east bay area. i grew up around san francisco for the first 18, 20 years of my life. when i tell you this is a problem specific to san francisco and the hotel market, as you point out, as opposed to other major metro areas in other so-called blue states, los angeles not the same problems, new york city not the same problems. the reason why, they're looking at a metric specifically called revenue per available room. it basically is measuring, in

essence, the financial and operating efficiency of hotels. what you are seeing is that in san francisco for the month of april that key metric fell below what it was in the same time in 2019 pre-pandemic, a 23% drop according to the "wall street journal." if you look at that same metric in los angeles and new york city, we're actually above those levels in those other parts of the country. so that's a big deal. if you look at the concerns basically, the levels of crime, homelessness, vagrancy, sanitation, that's giving tourists and would-be convention goers a moment of pause. it's gotten bad enough that some of these hotel property owners are in a financial condition where they're defaulting on their loan payments. it's having a real world ripple effect. for right now you could start to see a little bit more of that

pick up if people keep not making their loan payments. this is something that speaks a little bit more to me directly because i grew up in san francisco. >> i thought it's an incredible city going through tough times right now. willie, look at new york. they're actually doing better now than pre-pandemic as far as hotels. you look at san francisco, you look at portland, you look at some of those west coast cities and quality of life issues. for some reason, it angers people when you say it. >> ask anybody who's trying to run a business in san francisco. a lot of companies have moved out of downtown san francisco to different places for the safety

of their employees. it is a truly great american city. i always loved going there. it's always weird to me when people attack companies that are leaving. they're making decisions based on a reality. these pharmacies in new york city are not staying open because it's not worth it. if people walk in and steal everything, why are we having a store front here. still ahead on "morning joe," we are keeping an eye on miami, where in just a few hours former president trump is scheduled to appear in federal court to face charges he misled investigators and mishandled classified documents. "morning joe" will be right back. "morning joe" will be right back

realtor.com (in a whisper) can we even afford this house? maybe jacob can finally get a job. the house whisperer! this house says use realtor.com to see homes in your budget. you're staying in school, jacob! realtor.com. to each their home. known as a loving parent. known for lessons that matter. known for lessons that matter. known for being a free spirit. no one wants to be known for cancer, but a treatment can be. keytruda is known to treat cancer, fda-approved for 16 types of cancer. one of those cancers is advanced nonsquamous, non-small cell lung cancer, where keytruda is approved to be used with certain chemotherapies as your first treatment if you do not have an abnormal "egfr" or "alk" gene. keytruda can cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body during or after treatment. this may be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have cough, shortness of breath, chest pain, diarrhea,

severe stomach pain, severe nausea or vomiting, headache, light sensitivity, eye problems, irregular heartbeat, extreme tiredness, constipation, dizziness or fainting, changes in appetite, thirst, or urine, confusion, memory problems, muscle pain or weakness, fever, rash, itching, or flushing. there may be other side effects. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions, including immune system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, received chest radiation or have a nervous system problem. depending on the type of cancer, keytruda may be used alone or in combination with other treatments, and is also being studied in hundreds of clinical trials, exploring ways to treat even more types of cancer. it's tru. keytruda from merck. see all the types of cancer keytruda is known for at keytruda.com and ask your doctor if keytruda could be right for you.

maisha: shared leadership has to do with... michael: acknowledging parents as equal partners. narrator: california's community schools. grant: community schools lift the voices of folks that have traditionally not been heard whether they're parents, students, community groups. john: it's shared decision-making with parents. they're saying that these are the priorities that they want to see for their kids. wendy: it allows us to create the school that our students deserve. rafael: community schools are innovative, and they're working. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education.

♪ ♪ ♪ [typing] ♪ you were made to act spontaneously. we were made to help plan accordingly. ♪

looking, look. there it is, three-pointer. won't go. rebound. they're not going to foul. the heat will let it play out. it's over. at last, the long wait is over. after 47 years, the denver nuggets can finally call themselves nba champions. >> you see those tears of joy. that's what happens when you wait a half century to win an nba title. >> the falcons may actually win the super bowl. >> your day will come. you had that one chance. for the first time in the 47-year history of the franchise, the denver nuggets are nba champions.

jokic named finals mvp, the first player in league history to lead the post season in points, rebounds and assists. we didn't see a lot of the denver nuggets this year or last year. they didn't get the love. boy, to watch them over the last two months is to marvel at their really special team. >> jokic had ten triple-doubles in the playoffs. >> that's crazy. >> he's the most generous player in the league, not just the best player. >> it's an extraordinary book. so much of it has to do with conditioning and training. i do want to ask a question, though. what have you learned about how

basketball coaches train the athletes in eastern europe to be such complete players. it's crazy. >> if you have any doubt that talent is just a fractional part of this equation, look at a picture of nikola as a boy. the serbian tennis players learned to play tennis in the bottoms of swimming pools. there is people who come from deficit. the other thing i would say i learned is that all of those things they're doing on the court are micro decisions. they come from process and method so that the system between their brain and their body works really fast in the moment. they rise to a moment in a really efficient way. that's what the rest of us can learn from them. we study athletes for all the

wrong things sometimes. >> let's start at the very beginning. that is conditioning. one of the reasons i was so excited to have you on is i was going to text my kids and say here's the deal. here's the meaning of life. if you work hard, you do well. if you don't work hard, you don't do well, love, dad. then i saw your column on michael phelps. what an extraordinary story about working hard 365 days out of the year. >> champions do more things. it's very simple. michael phelps is on a bus with other olympians going to a training session and these older swimmers say to him, boy, you train a lot, don't you? he goes, yes, i guess. they said, well, do you train on christmas? yeah, i do. i swim on christmas day. but you don't swim on your birthday, right?

yeah, i do, i swim on my birthday. it's important to note for parents out there athletes also spend a lot of time on recovery. type a hard chargers get that wrong quite a lot. the coach of the olympic team said let's do two a days. they looked at him and said in the afternoons we do yoga and pilates and massage. >> the book is called "the right call, what sports teaches us about work and life." there was nothing inevitable about their superstardom. peyton manning wasn't blessed with every physical gift in the world. he just worked harder at it. >> peyton manning was the son of archie manning so he certainly

had advantages. his record was 32-32 and he led the league in interceptions. tony dungy got a hold of him and corrected his feet. they looked at every interception he'd ever thrown and found common denominators. they found his feet got very jackhammery under pressure. it's critical to understand how much these people are made and not born. >> the bottom line of the peyton manning story is he succeeded b >> yes. champions really look at their weaknesses. the rest of us run around our backhands, right? pretty good at something and they run around our weaknesses. athletes go right at them. it is the thing i learned to respect most about them. i'll give you a great stat. every year at the super bowl, my favorite statistic is look at how many people on a super bowl

team were cut or traded or undrafted. the tampa bay buccaneers super bowl team had 27 players on the roster who had been rated two stars or less in high school. two stars or less. >> wow. >> interesting. >> so the book uses extraordinary athletes like michael phelps and extraordinary coaches. i would argue none more extraordinary than bill belichick. >> correct. very forbidding guy until you talk to him. he's fun to talk to when he's not doing an act in public to get his team ready for the big game. but one of the things he observed when i interviewed him that i thought was most important takeaway was he said, you have to execute something in the face of resistance. you have to practice in the face of resistance because if you can't do it against practice resistance, you're certainly not going to be able to do it when the moment comes. >> sally, when you talk to champions or professional athletes certainly, some college

athletes, there is discipline involved in greatness. there is the willingness to listen and adapt in greatness. but what about those handful of athletes you may have encountered who know instinctively they have a gift that just separates them from everyone else? >> it is funny, my father, the great sportswriter dan jenkins -- >> the best. >> the greatest. >> yeah. i mean, he told me that the thing that really great athletes understand is that not to feel your potential is a kind of sin, the way my dad put it. i think they feel that way. they feel if they have a little potential, they'll send the elevator all the way to the 12th floor, it is not going to stop on the 10th floor, right? they play themselves to ashes. and look at djokovic is 36 years old. these people are expanding the age range for achievement. jimmy conners was considered the

grand old man of tennis. he won his final grand slam title at 33. so, they're pushing the envelope for one thing, showing us, they're instructing us that we're stopping too soon. >> i wanted to also go back -- going back to michael phelps, so shocking his coach basically said i'm going to destroy you. i'm going to make it -- and so, phelps would go, he would set a world record in practice, he would come out exhausted, coach would say, okay, let's do it five more times. unthinkable. >> just to nail it. to groove it. diana nyad, the great swimmer who swam from cuba to key west, at the end of every training swim, she would tell herself, five more minutes. just five more minutes. so great mental trick. you can use it with anything, really? >> yeah. that's a good point. you -- the pga tour and liv golf joining forces. is this good for golf? >> no. >> you had a few choice words

about it. >> so, for one thing, it is a sale. okay, let's call it what it is. it is a sale. it is interesting. people need to start looking at the other bankers involved in this deal, behind the saudis is amanda stavely who engineered the sale of the new castle team to the saudis. look at the commission she -- she got 10% of the team as a commission. okay. the bankers involved in this are going to walk away. she was involved in another deal with barclays for her commission there was 110 million pounds. so one of the questions we have to start asking is what is the real motive for this deal. is it that it is good for golf or is it that lots of people are going to get huge benefit commissions. four people went into a room, a cigar bar basically and made this deal. how does that benefit the players? those questions really need to be answered and fortunately i think senator blumenthal is going to start asking those questions. >> the new book is entitled "the right call: what sports teaches us about work and life."

"washington post's" sally jenkins, thank you very much. we appreciate you coming on this morning. >> thank you. and we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." k with much more "morning joe." from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ when i first learned about my dupuytren's contracture, my physician referred me to a hand specialist. and i'm glad he did, because when i took the

tabletop test, i couldn't lay my hand flat anymore. the first hand specialist i saw only offered surgery. so, i went to a second hand specialist who also offered nonsurgical options - which felt more right for me. so, what i'd say to other people with dupuytren's contracture is this: don't wait —find a hand specialist trained in nonsurgical options, today. i found mine at findahandspecialist.com. - representative! - sorry, i didn't get that. - oh buddy! you need a hug. you also need consumer cellular. get the exact same coverage as the nation's leading carriers

and 100% us based customer support. starting at $20. consumer cellular. first, there's an idea and you do something about it for the first time with godaddy. then before you know it, (it is a life changer...) you make your first sale. small business first. never stopped coming. (we did it!) and you have a partner that always puts you first way. (no way!) start today at godaddy.com. and this is ready to go online. any questions? -yeah, i got one. how about the best network imaginable? let's invent that. that's what we do here. quick survey. who wants the internet to work, pretty much everywhere. and it needs to smooth, like super, super, super, super smooth. hey, should you be drinking that? -it's decaf. because we're busy women. we don't have time for lag or buffering. who doesn't want internet that helps a.i.

do your homework even faster. come again. -sorry, what was that? introducing the next generation 10g network only from xfinity. the future starts now.

welcome back. our final moments here, all eyes are on miami, florida, today. what will you be looking for? >> i want to know what jonathan lemire thinks. >> yeah, okay. tell us. >> tough miami heat loss -- no, it is -- >> historic day. >> it is a historic day, the first time a former president faces federal charges and we're going to hear from donald trump afterwards too, he's going to head back to new jersey and deliver a speech in front of supporters. >> yeah. >> mike barnicle. >> the only potential win for me today is probably not in miami. it is going to be maybe in fenway park. >> okay. that's what he'll be watching. fair. >> rockies? >> i'll take that.

subway series in new york. we'll be watching at 3:00, obviously, in miami and we saw some hints of criticism. chris christie we expected. nikki haley changing course a little bit. we'll see if she goes back. >> she didn't kick sideways, she kicked forward. >> the leadership and the house continues to stand by him. >> and that's the thing, we're early. everybody is saying take a deep breath. we have a long way to go. >> it is early. get a copy of the power code by caddie kay and claire shipman. >> yes. it is number one in amazon and women in business, so thank you for the conversation. i think it is the right moment. we think about power in a new way. >> yes, we are. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera and jose diaz-balart pick up special coverage of today's arraignment of donald trump right now.