welcome back to msnbc special coverage of donald trump's arraignment. the former president is expected to leave his golf resort at doral within the hour and make his way to the courthouse. once there, nbc news learned that court officials will not be taking a mug shot. instead, using the pre-existing photo of donald trump for their internal booking system. he will have to provide his personal data including his social security number and his

hand will be scanned digitally, not the more familiar fingerprinting with actual ink. and donald trump will be joined in court by his attorneys, former federal prosecutor todd blanche and the solicitor general chris kise. they spent the last day or so interviewing local florida attorneys, but so far have not found any to join the former president's legal team. >> and as we wait for donald trump to make his way to the courthouse, we're keeping a close eye on the scene outside. we have not yet seen anywhere near the kind of huge crowds that miami police were bracing for. though that could change as we get closer to the arraignment. no sign of it yet. trump was asked on monday if he had a message for his supporters and here's what he said. >> just stay strong, stay very, very strong and we're going to bring it back and we're going to win in a landslide. i believe it will be one of the greatest wins ever, much bigger than the other way, because they've done so poorly. we're going to make america greater than ever before.

because these guys have shot their wad. they have shown how bad they are. >> joining us is laura jarrett who is outside the courthouse in miami. dasha burns is at trump's doral golf resort where he's been staying since arriving from new jersey yesterday. and andrew weizman is -- former fbi general counsel and nyu law professor. and joyce vance, former u.s. attorney and law professor at the university of alabama. both andrew and joyce are also msnbc legal analysts. so, laura, to you first, let's talk about what donald trump is really facing with this indictment. it has been described variously by john bolton, a lawyer, a number of our contributors including defense attorney danny cevallos as a very tough indictment. what makes this indictment so particularly hard for the former president? >> well, it really falls into two buckets. one is the retention of the

documents, the classified materials from various agencies like cia, the department of defense. so these are not his documents. these are the property of the u.s. government. and he kept them even though he was asked, they say, to give them back repeatedly. the second bucket really has to do with his efforts as prosecutors describe to conceal the documents, possibly even destroy the documents. and even keep them from his own attorney. what makes it different is they have their own attorneys notes. it is rare to get your hands on something like that. prosecutors made a showing in d.c. federal court that the crime fraud exception be applied here, something that doesn't happen very often, but something prosecutors can use when legal services have been used in the commission of a crime. and a basic showing and the idea here, the basic premise is that donald trump actually tried to get his lawyer to commit a crime. now, it will be interesting to see whether any of this evidence that i just described comes in at trial. that will be up to the judge.

and so that's where we're a ways off from that. it is a very serious indictment. he maintained he's done nothing wrong all along, but hasn't actually addressed the substance of the claims that i just outlined and that's something that his lawyers will eventually have to confront. >> one of the things that has been nagging at me is we got so much detail in this indictment, tons of conversations that donald trump has had, him on tape, direct quotes from him, direct quotes from aides. it appears some people's cell phones may have been obtained by the special counsel. we know what kind of documents they describe donald trump as having. they have more documents, but they chose a collect few. what andrew weizman is not in this indictment, what might still come out at trial? >> so i think there are two things that are not in the indictment that were notable. one is that -- as you mentioned, this is a subset of the secret or top secret documents that i think that's something we will

not see more of because that is probably the intelligence community saying there are things so sensitive we do not want you to use that in court. the material in the indictment is shocking. you can imagine what was left out. the second thing that is notable to me is how little was said about bedminster. the charges go up to the period of the search in mar-a-lago. and there is even references to boxes being taken to bedminster, but given the amount of detail, just the granularity of what happened at mar-a-lago, and that jack smith is such a meticulous prosecutor, it was notable to me there was a gap in terms of what was happening at bedminster. >> not only the conversation about taking the boxes with him, which it appears melania trump said we don't have room for these boxes, but the showing of one of the classified documents when he's on tape talking about it saying, i could have classified it, but i can't now,

that happened at bedminster and the conversation that people were having with him regarding mark meadows' book. >> absolutely. the two instances of actual dissemination that are charged in terms of -- charges that are alleged to have happened, but in bedminster, but those are not separately charged. there is a dissemination charge that could have been brought. it was not brought. and one of the things people speculate about is that because the venue, the location for those charges was best minister, in new jersey. so is there more to come? >> maybe an indictment in new jersey, are you thinking? >> i don't know. but, you know, one of the things, if i'm jack smith and i'm thinking i may get aileen cannon in florida and she puts things off, there is no question that that could be the basis, in other words there are dissemination charges that seem

to from the current charges seem to be something that could be brought in new jersey. >> let me ask about who gets to see in discovery, a defendant and his or her attorneys, get to see the documents. but would they have to get security clearance and what would happen if they suggested giving, you know, security clearance to the former president, something that joe biden has denied to him specifically and saying he had cause in an interesting interview that he gave shortly after he took office. >> right. very prescient call on his part given what we now know. but this is the reason there will be some delay in the current case. the answer is, yes, defense counsels entitled to see this in order to defend their client. that is part of due process in this country. so they will need to have a certain limited type of clearance and frankly that will apply to the defendant as well. but it can be tightly controlled. for instance, the defendant may

need to go to a certain location and can see the documents, but cannot take pictures, cannot take copies and cannot communicate with anyone other than his counsel about those documents. >> they have to be able to see the defendant and his attorneys have to be able to see everything that goes to the jury. >> absolutely. >> all right, so, joyce, conveniently, you wrote an entire article on this and it is fascinating, called a handling classified material at trial. part of what you write is in many cases declassification isn't the option. the prospect of damage is too great to contemplate as in nuclear cases. there is a real risk of defendants engaging in graymail, the practice of threatening to expose critical information in open court if the government insists on taking them to trial. that's just one of the examples you give about the complications and so -- it sets up the question that is the first question in your article, which is, how do prosecutors try a

case when the charges are based on top secret and other classified documents? joyce? >> right, so, very carefully. and i don't say that in a glib way because prosecutors are charged with taking care, especially after a case is charged, with making sure that classified material doesn't bleed out into the public. both andrew and i have experience in this area because the statute is used not only in these sorts of retention cases, but sippia and the need to protect classified information often comes into play when you're handling terrorism cases, where these sorts of issues can arise as well. and so in essence what the statute does is it forces the court and to some extent the defendant to make decisions up-front about what information they're going to try to offer and put into the record at trial. the judge has to make those decisions quickly so that the

prosecution is on notice of just what sort of information is going to perhaps become public. they have other options like trying to create summary documents that are not classified or offering institutions that are unclassified. and if those sorts of substitutes permit the defendant to still put on the same defense that they could use in classified material, then the judge is supposed to sign off on that. you can see how complicated this gets. and one of the interesting impacts of sippia, is that it includes an immediate right of expedited appeal. in other words, if the prosecution here does not like judge cannon's decisions, they can go straight to the 11th circuit. that gives them not only the opportunity to appeal her substantive decisions, but if they think she's off the reservation, it also triggers their ability to ask the circuit to reassign the case or to order that the chief judge reassign the case to a different judge on

remand. >> we are both pointing at andrew weizman, because we were talking about this during the break. >> he's been nodding at everything you say off camera. >> you should always nod with joyce vance. not only a very erudite lawyer particularly with respect to the law in the 11th circuit, that's where joyce practiced, you don't get any better than her and i have a question for joyce, which is what do you think the odds are that -- the chances are if judge cannon were to do something with respect to seepia that is akin to what she's done before, how rare is it for the 11th circuit to not just reverse her but say we're going to send it back to a different judge? >> so, you know, andrew this is a patient circuit. it is a collegial circuit. collegiality is valued here

between lawyers and also between lawyers and judges. but there are limits. and where this circuit has drawn a clear line and they have done it in cases where they said the judge doesn't have actual bias. but the judge's earlier decisions in this case suggest they simply can't set aside the path that they have gone down. this seems like a case that is really on all fours with those sorts of decisions because the ultimate goal when thinking about recusal is to make sure that the public can have confidence in the decisions that a court makes. there is no case where that will matter more in criminal law and in this century than with this case involving the prosecution of a former president. and so the 11th circuit will be careful to consider whether given judge cannon's track record, particularly if she makes an egregious mistake, if it is not time in the interest of justice and fairness to go

ahead and have a different judge handle the case. and that doesn't mean that it will be a judge that you and i might pick for this case. there is a good chance that it could be another trump appointee. that's not what matters here. it is just public confidence in the decisions coming out of this room. >> what impact would this have? how do you explain to a jury all of a sudden there is a new judge presiding? >> this all has to take place in advance of trial. once that jury is sworn in, double jeopardy is attached. this is an important point to make. it is a little inside baseball, but we give trial judges broad discretion over issues like admissibility of evidence. it is important to straighten out whether judge cannon is in fact the judge who can handle this trial earlier than that. that's why the motions where the statute explicitly gives prosecutors an immediate right to an appeal and orders the 11th

circuit to handle it on an expedited basis, that's where that might be fertile ground for making this consideration or perhaps other rulings if she suppresses the search warrant or reverses judge howell from the district of columbia who has said the attorney/client privilege should be pierced here. all these issues will be important for the government to handle well in advance of trial. >> in the meantime, we have an indictment and we have an arraignment today. so let's go to dasha burns outside doral where donald trump spent the night. tell us what you're seeing and hearing where you are. >> we're not seeing any of those massive crowds, of course, but we are hearing the noise level come up a little bit here as there are a handful of mostly pro trump protesters here. i'm going to ask my cameraman to show you a little bit of what we're seeing. it is a bit hard to see from our camera position here. some folks with trump flags, with anticommunist flags,

antigeorge soros flags here, making some noise. you'll likely hear from some driving by, the noise level escalating here over the last half hour or so as we expect the former president to make his way toward the courthouse within the next hour or so. we also just saw about 20 to 30 officers on motorcycles head into the trump doral property here. we're anticipating he will be leaving anytime and we'll bring you the images as soon as we get them. we don't expect to hear from the former president, before he heads to court. but we have been hearing from him on social media. he has been putting out a flurry of posts on truth social. also, already received more -- several fund-raising emails from team trump. and he will be holding a fund-raiser tonight. and i think that is so important

to emphasize because it really shows the thinking in trump world right now that while the legal process is very serious and any lawyer you talk to will tell you how grave this is, in terms of the legal situation for the former president, politically they're very much looking to use this as an advantage in the primary. they are looking to fund-raise off of this. they're looking to rally support. and gain momentum off of this. we have seen that happen with bumps in polling, bumps in fund raising in the past. and while this does seem legally to be very different than the past indictment and previous legal challenges, politically they are treating this very much the same and making the point to supporters in the republican party that this is a system not coming after donald trump. it is a system coming after the america first movement and that is the powerful message that the former president is able to send to the republican party. that's what makes it so difficult for his opponents, his rivals in the primary to break

from him and to go too harsh in terms of their attacks because they are worried about alienating that base, chris. >> they're worried about donald trump training his fire on one individual and just being done in the primary because of it. donald trump has been doing that, using that tactic of saying it is not me, all of us now successfully, to a degree, after 2015. he lost 2020 and you could argue he was the reason republicans lost largely in 2018, 2020 and in 2022. that was the view from doral. let's get the view from outside the federal courthouse in miami and go to yasmin vossoughian. what does it look like out there? >> we're under two hours from when the former president of the united states is going to be arraigned here for the first time at a federal courthouse. history in the making. and it is curious, katie, chris, andrew, to watch because it seems as if the security here is

somewhat disorganized and i say that because you've got a lot of security presence from what we're told. miami pd, miami-dade, u.s. marshals, dhs, secret service, choppers above as well. and you have areas cordoned off with this yellow police tape, but no hardened barriers. there doesn't seem to be a lot of communication happening between these several agencies that are on the ground. you got protesters behind me. i'll step out of the shot for a second. you got an individual here with a sign up saying free trump. many individuals behind him saying trump 2024. i saw a protester here saying lock him up. there was a confrontation between that individual and the trump supporters and the security on the ground had to get in between them to calm things down. you think about that, juxtaposed to what we're about to see happen. at this federal courthouse, a farmer president be arraigned. we don't necessarily know if

he'll be coming above ground, through the doors behind me, in that area, that is open, where you see police cars kind of blocking the doorway. or he's going to be coming down with his motorcade behind the street, behind this federal courthouse and going underground. we don't have confirmation. you think back to the conversations that we know he had with his own secret service on january 6th after he made that announcement he was going to march on the capitol, and then the secret service nixed that, right? we imagine similar conversations happening with inside trump camp as well. the president wanting to give away as he did in happen, the security situation here is different. you have a federal building you can't see off camera. behind this building are all public buildings. that's a major security threat the former president of the

united states. so as we have been here throughout the day, i've been here around 8:00 a.m. or so, the presence has been building among protesters. we're expecting a bus load to show up from orlando around 2:00 p.m. to protest in a cordoned off area. again, as we get closer and closer to this 3:00 p.m. deadline, we imagine all of this is going to kind of be increasing towards that time. >> thank you so much. setting the scene there. just looking at is that, it is so different from what you see in washington around capitol hill post january 6th. >> or here in new york. >> exactly. it seems like very loosely organized, though we don't know if this other bus load is going to come. we know that some are expected from orlando. if does seem as though -- we're seeing a motorcade, the lead

bikes, which are the highway police, coming, which could be a parade. >> some officers exiting. we're seeing some officers now existing the trump doral property here. police officers coding the traffic here at this intersection. we see a lot of onlookers watching for what is about to happen here. he might be on his way out now. the former president on his way to the courtroom. to be arraigned for the federal indictment. we're now no longer seeing any more movement here. that might have been the initial round of officers exiting ahead of the former president. a lot of folks anticipating what is about to happen here.

>> we'll keep watching that. the federal courthouse, there is an underground entrance and he's not going to be photographed won't see him outside. >> a lot of times what is happening behind the scenes is a lot more than you think. and having been at the fbi for events that are high risk and high profile, they're typically is a lot that is being done behind the scenes. there is a but see for that. but see january 6th, a notable failure. i can't imagine that's going to repeat itself. the other is what you're saying, in the washington, d.c. courthouse, unlike new york there was a way to bring defendants into the courthouse. they did not walk outside. it is for safety, much easier if

they go right in and the marshals are there. there may not be advanced discussion about where it will be, i would be very surprised in the secret service do not insist they're going to take the underground route we will not see the former president enter. >> we'll see the motorcade but not necessarily the press unless he decides to stop and talk to people before his event at bedminster tonight. we don't anything about that quite yet. we were talking about cracks in the republican party regarding donald trump. we heard kevin mccarthy saying he doesn't like president broaden and the documents being in the garage. here is congressman buck on another network. >> i would not feel comfortable with a convicted feon in the us

who. we'll see how the case plays out and how the evidence is presented and what the defenses are. but let's look at donald trump's words in 2016. he said that hillary clinton was unfit for the white house because of the way she handled classified information. he said she wasn't qualified to have a low level state department job. i think his words set the standard that america will look at him and determining whether he is fit for president. >> i had a lot of conversations with congressman buck over the years. and he's been -- when everyone is taking line a or line b, he's taking line c. he's been refreshingly out of step is the wrong way to describe it, about up not necessarily in line on all issues within the republican party. >> he's more independent and taking on the speaker showing

some independence also. >> he's on judiciary, foreign affairs. when you look at the brief description of what is in the various documents, many of them have to deal with foreign fairs, foreign governments, preparations for things like war. he has a deep knowledge. >> the gang of eight, he sees the documents too. a lot of people on the committees who are currently defending the president's actions. >> there are some cracks appear ing within the republican party and nikki haley was coming out in complete defense of donald trump a couple of days ago and now is saying it is reckless. >> he had is a former ambassador to the united nations. she's dealt with national security. sat on the national security council. her husband was deployed when she made those comments. for a year, in the reserves, so

it's very appropriate for her to say that people, lives of women and men in the military, who are at stake. this is the first time she had any sort of distance. >> i would argue less than a cumulative effect, it is the difference between what is at stake and i'm not in any quai diminishing the case that they're bringing in manhattan. this is a different level altogether. >> absolutely. i think there was a lot of discomfort among legal experts and some critics and many democrats that case went first. you see the motorcade. it looks like this is the

motorcade forming. and dasha is there. >> historic journey for the former president right in this very moment. you can sense this anticipation in the air right now with the protesters here, the police presence here. we just saw dozens of police on motorcycles exit the trump property here ahead of what we anticipate will be the former president president's vehicle as well. this is a day like any other. this is a indictment significantly more serious than any other legal problem the former president has faced as we talked. this is a moment that politically these are the images that we will likely see the former president using to

fund-raise with, to rally supports around him. we are showing these images today, on our network as a day that history will remember, that students will be learning about. today is the day that the former president will be using for his campaign to raise money and try to beat his rives rivals. this entire section has been blocked off. i see additional officers and lights in the background there. we have not yet seen the former president exit. we're told his departure is imminent. you see some of those pro trump demonstrators here. they have been here for the last several ours, a show of support for the former president. a handful of protesteprotesterse

not seen a lot of chaos here. this area has a lot of support for the former president. it not happening in washington, miami is an entirely different area. this is what used to be a democratic stronghold that in the last several years has pushed to much more of a red region. we will send it back to you as we wait and see when the former president makes his way out of this property here. >> doral has a unique place in one little episode within the trump presidency because he at one point suggested that a g-7 summit would be held there. >> yeah.

this is while he was president, he wanted a g-7 down there. he had an opportunity to go to all his clubs and properties in his 2016 campaign. we were talking because we had aerials of doral and there is one image of a ballroom, on the top of it is trump in big, bold letters. that is where donald trump got into so much trouble and perhaps part of the reason that the russian investigation was launched is when he said, russia, if you're listening to her, a lot of significance from that location. we'll keep an eye on it to see when the president does leave. we're not expecting to see him. he'll be in a motorcade.

maybe an image of him waving outside the car. not a giant crowd there. what we can see in front of the miami courthouse, a larger crowd but a lot of that is media. it is camera men and women and reporters. there are protesters for and against donald trump. it is important to read one portion of the indictment. talking about who he potentially put at risk, what he potentially put at risk. we read this on friday when we got this. i think this is the big crux of this. the documents he stored in his boxes included information regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the united states and foreign countries. the united states nuclear programs, potential vulnerabilities of the united

states and its allies to military attack and plans for possible retaliation. the unauthorized disclosure could put at risk the national security of the united states, foreign relations, the safety of the united states military, and hume be sources and the viability of sensitive intelligence collection methods. this is them saying he actual ly put lives at risk. potential ways to attack us were in the documents that we saw according to prosecutors in the bathroom. in the ballroom, a storage room, knocked over at one point. these were the documents stored at his club and could be rummaged through we how many

people. there was the security breach by the chinese national from months and months and months ago. >> he's now on his way to the courthouse, apparently. there was a lot of reporting over the past couple of years that mar-a-lago was a major, major intelligence target. >> yeah. >> of course it would be. it is open to the public that the president was there. so the idea this would be a location for classified documents is so anathema to people in the intelligence community. that's why you see job bolton, republicans and democrats who are in the intelligence community being horrified. it is also why for lindsey graham not to be understanding or speaking out about this, to

be in the group of eight, to be somebody who is aware of our national security secrets and not be appalled by this. having seen some of that, it's really something you can't fathom being -- >> very early in the administration, he had just been elected when he had the japan prime minister as a minister. there was a nuclear launch and out on the patio, while the diners, club members were having dinner and they have documents at lite photos. given the seriousness of what we have been talking about, what katie just read, the potential damage that investor bolton

talked about, if this weren't a president of the united states win maybe that won't play into it. when it comes to talking issues like pretrial detention, is this the kind of case where those things would be looked at in a way of perhaps denying bail? >> it could be. but i think in this situation everyone should be prepared for, he's going to be released. he is under secret service protection. the concern about flight is not something that i think the government is going to say he should be detakened. i think one thing that will be interesting to think about is even as the government has the many of the documents, maybe all back, the information is still in donald trump's head. one thing they have to be concerned about is his

disclosing that. >> that is a typical thing that is done with respect to any defendant. >> let's bring in jim himes, the ranking member on the house intelligence committee. thank you for joining us. we have been talking about intelligence being put at risk here. how did you read this indictment? >> i have two concerns. the damage that would been to to national security, our diplomatic relations based on tour material who we'll never know who had act tess access to. i worry about that almost as

much. there is this idea that we won't be destroyed by foreign enemies that will hurt ourselves. right now my republican colleagues are doing all they can to damage the american belief, the american confidence in their judicial system. it is exactly what we saw prior to january 6th. they're saying this is the same as hillary clinton. it is not the same universe. the facts speak for themselves. the cost is being born by americans confidence in their system of justice. the prorb is in a democracy if you don't trust your electoral system and don't trust the judicial system, eventually you don't have a democracy. >> it has been a year it has been pointed out, rm a year since the intelligence community launched an investigation into what the potential damage was. have you seen any result of

that, any assessment? >> we haven't seen a formal report. i had regular conversations as ranking member of the intelligence committee with the leadership of the intelligence community. i can't get into the specifics there. their work is ongoing. they'll never know for sure, how can you go back and look over a two-year period at who might have gone on to that stage at 3:00 in the morning dressed's janitor or waiter. i have seen the documents. i can't talk about them. when i saw them, i was more concerned about what damage might have been done than what i heard about what they were. >> we continue to hear from some on the republican side, statements that are somewhat dismissive. let me play for you what kevin

mccarthy said. >> clafed, should be doo back. it is unbelievable to me, unbelievable to me that a sitting president could have documents hinting his he's car and that they would raid his house earn though the head of the washington -- it is unbeknownst to me how can i country that believes in the rule of law have different forms for different -- >> different forms of law for different people, suggesting that somehow what joe biden did and that investigation is still ongoing or hillary clinton is a'nole gus and should be treated the same way as donald trump. what do you say to that.

>> kevin mccarthy is saying what he needs to say so his speaker -- joe biden, mike pence, donald trump should not have had classified dumts. when joe biden and mike pence did the work to discover those classified documents, they gave them all over instantly. the president allegedly obstructed. he knew he had loved because he talked about them. he did everything he could to prevent them from being returned to the government. i believe the knight of the documents that were stored at mar-a-lago very, very different. he is sigh inying something he to be profoundly untrue.

if you don't rise to the unconditional defense of donald trump, your career can be over here. >> six of the documents, of the 31 mentioned, six of them deal with intelligence briefings related to foreign countries. how worrisome is that to you? >> there is all kinds of worries, right. it could be profoundly embarrassing. presidents regularly get briefed on personal details of foreign leaders. how do we know these things. if a report comes through as the fbi director told us yesterday that vladimir putin didn't like his breakfast this morning. if that but its out there is

that damaging to you? there is all sorts of dimensions in which this could be embarrassing, threatening, not just to the united states, but to many people out there who do intelligence work on our behalf. i've been texting with the fa former national security official who describes this is surprising. they strike this as more of a presidential motorcade and donald trump right now is a private citizen. we can report that his attorneys are traveling with him right now inside that motorcade. they're probably talking about

legal strategy. how do you convince a jury or the broader public this is a big deal? you had lindsey graham on one of the sunday shows. and he said from a republican perspective this appears to be politically targeted. from a republican perspective, republicans don't feel the doj is working fairly. what can you say to republican voters or maybe donald trump voters who may be on this jury once it is picked to convince them this is a big deal. >> you have to find jury that will be in some way rooted in fact. in reality. and that is not where kevin mccarthy is today or too many

house democrats are doing here today. and, again, i was alluding to this earlier, one of the very dangerous things right now is that when kevin mccarthy to all sorts of people, not mitt romney, not attorney general barr, but by and large most elected republicans are trying to damage the american people's confidence in the system of justice. i think what you need to say is, here are the facts, they about a report and found that that investigation was not politically motivated. that is a fact. in the special counsel's report we saw come out there was no suggestion that the fbi was acting politically. did the fbi make mistakes, yes, the fbi made mistakes, ro lots accountability upon the fbi for making those mistakes.

people need to understand that the defense that my colleagues on the republican side are mounting for donald trump is simply wrong. it is wrong and very dangerous and it erodes america's confidence in the system of justice and all of those things that make our democracy. >> you said that after two years and with mar-a-lago being a wide open target and so many people going through and the documents being in a bathroom, in a shower, on the stage in the ballroom, how do you who has seen them? how do you do a damage assessment, how do you know that sources and methods could have been comprised. some has been to be extracted as president trump disclosed very critical information from an ally in the oval office to the russian ambassador and the

russian foreign minister. >> there is no button to press to know with certainty whether that information made it out into the wild, whether it made it into the hands of the chinese or the russians. there are some very tragic ways to know. one thing we might do is we might hear russian officials talking about something -- or chinese officials or iranian officials talking about something that was in those cache of documents. u.s. sources could turn up dead with bullets in the backs of their heads like china or russia. i wouldn't rule that out. chinese, russian citizens working on our behalf could be killed if those secrets are spilled. there is no science that will allow us to determine what the damage is, but we haves ways of telling if that information was compromised. >> thank you for your time today. much appreciated. we just learned in addition to

chris kise and todd blanche, the lawyers for donald trump, also traveling with him today is walt nauta his co-defendant in this case. so he continues to be there, by the side of the president as he was at the white house and then when he moved back to mar-a-lago. and we're expecting all of them including the former president to arrive at the federal courthouse in miami for the arraignment and yasmin vossoughian is outside the courthouse where trump is set to arrive. also with us, the founder of sierra one consulting, rob d'amico. i wonder if there are any more people who have shown up. talk of a bus arriving. but overall i think the crowd is small compared to some of the projections that miami police and the miami mayor said they were prepared for. >> the miami mayor yesterday

said on our air essentially, you know, we're prepared for anywhere from 5 had been to 50,000. i think he was implying in a way we have the security personnel in place to deal with anything. the same kind of information i was getting from security personnel on the ground. you got pd, miami, miami-dade, u.s. marshals, dhs, secret service. talking about protesters and you mentioned it right, this bus coming from orlando. scheduled to arrive around 2:00 p.m. he can be here. i'm being told by my cameraman carlos who lives in this area, he could be here in minutes considering the way he's teaing his roadway. all that being said, talking

about the protesters, the crowd has grown substantially since this morning. we started out with 10 or 12 protesters on the ground. it seemed like more of a circus than a protest. and now that number is growing a a bit. that's to be expected considering the anticipation of the former president and showing up here. i'm sure a lot of folks are hoping that the former president would come out and give them a wave, especially donald trump supporters. it seems as if that's not something that is going to happen because they have this underground route that they can take up to the courthouse. the federal building is just behind me. two things to point out about the attorneys. todd blanche, former federal prosecutor, he's also his attorney on the hush money case in new york. i interviewed todd blanche after he was arraigned in the courthouse in manhattan. we know he's in that motorcade.

you have chris kise, he just joined the team yesterday because he's barred in florida. he had to sponsor blanch to represent a former president in court today. now the question is whether or not that team will grow from here. we expect it likely will. but, again, minutes away from the former president of the united states arriving here for the first time at a federal courthouse to be arraigned. >> and let me just add that we know one thing he's doing in the car, and that is suv, he's posted in all caps double spaced on my way to courthouse, which hunt, i wonder if dan scavino is a him. you mentioned that walt nauta is also in that car. when we first got the indictment last week, donald trump started tweeting flowery tweets about

how wonderful a person nauta is. clearly, the prosecution would like nauta on their side. what does it mean to see donald trump showing up in the same car? right now, they're pulling into the federal courthouse by the way, with walt nauta, his coconspirator? >> according to kelly o'donnell, he's in his role as not just a co defendant, but as an aide. >> and his counsel is being paid by donald trump or entities related. >> very good well respected counsel. >> yes. >> and you know, this is a continuation of what you were talking about which is you know, if you're looking for somebody not to flip, to cooperate, keep them very close. but this case is very different than allen weisselberg, the former cfo, and concern about whether he would flip the government as we've seen from the allegations in the

indictment. they don't need mr. nauta. this is a very strong case without him. and mr. nauta made a choice and so while i think they would have liked him to cooperate, it really does not appear it's needed. >> you can see somebody was holding their phone taping outside the, or somebody in the motorcade had their phone up. you can imagine the preproduced video that donald trump's campaign team will release in order to fund raise more. in order to lock in republican support. the base has stood firmly by donald trump throughout all of this. every single indictment. not breaking whatsoever at least not yet. they believe that the more that he is targeted, the more powerful he is within the republican party and so far, this is proven correct. the question is not how powerful you are within the republican party and by the way, republicans saying i don't agree with what donald trump did, i think it's risky and reckless. they're not saying go vote for a democrat. they're saying go vote for a

republican. there's a primary right now. there are a ton of other republicans running in this race who are conservative, agree with the same policies, who haven't acted as recklessly with classified information. the question is, donald trump can't win a general election with all of this baggage hanging over his head. >> and look, there's a new poll out and it's i think a little bit instructive. they were asked a question ahead of the arraignment if they believe the allegations against trump and no surprise, republicans are far more skeptical. but 62% of u.s. adults say the statement that donald trump illegally removed documents from the white house and stored them at mar-a-lago is believable. compared to 27%, overall, who find it not believable. but the poll also found that 81% of republicans believe the indictment is politically motivated and when you look at

those kinds of numbers in this part of the country and joyce vance, i'll bring you back in as we continue to watch this. what kinds of complications, thought processes, does this bring in when you're thinking about -- and i'm not sure what the movement is we're seeing on the screen right now. looks maybe like some sort of security. what kinds of challenges does that bring in jury selection for the prosecution? >> right. so it's obviously a truism for prosecutors that they have to win every juror when they try a case. they can't afford to have one juror decline to find there's proof beyond a reasonable doubt. you know, that situation is not an acquittal. that's a hung jury and he can

technically, the government can try its case again. here, it will be critical for jack smith that this first jury he strikes be full of jurors who will keep an open mind. everybody comes to this world with some set of biases. they may have political views. may have read information about the case. they may have formed judgments. what the judge will ask jurors to do during jury selection is to commit that they can set aside any of those views, believes, affiliations and make decisions in the courtroom based only on the evidence the judge permits them to hear and on the law as the judge instructs them about it. so as a prosecutor, one of the things you're doing when you're questioning witnesses, is you are looking to see if that commitment is an honest one.

here's, there's a little bit of a problem. we don't know what role judge canon, if she's still involved in the case at that point, will play. she will make rulings on which jurors can be excused for cost. to keep jurors who would be bias off. jury selection is more art than science and in this case, it will be challenging. >> rob, what do you think of the attacks, the verbal attacks against the special prosecutor and the fbi? and the justice department but particularly jack smith. the personal attacks from the defendant here, soon to be arraigned. the former president.

>> it's a tactic. unfortunately, jack has a family. he's going to have to go through this. i think it was anticipated, the security has probably been increased based on that, but it's one of those things that he's being professional, doing what he's brought in to do and he's going to keep doing it. >> but the questions that it raises for a lot of americans about the integrity of the justice system, about the integrity of the fbi. about the integrity of the criminal justice system overall. what's your level of concern? >> i'm not concerned. i spent 26 years in the fbi. i worked with people that i mean, gave all their lives, the professionals. they keep grinding. i think it's going to come out that they did what they had to do. they did the investigation and gave that to the prosecutors. it's not a good time but the men and women of the fbi are going

to stand up and they're going to be professionals. that's what everyone's doing down here. >> you can see that yellow police tape. again, the crowd's not as large as had been anticipated. miami police said they're really for, not sure they're approaching 5,000. mitch mcconnell was speaking on the senate floor right now. we expect him to give his first

comments about the indictment. we haven't yet heard from him. job thune is there. we're going to go there once they start speaking about the indictment because again, we haven't heard from minority leader mcconnell about this. it will be interesting to see how he frames up this indictment and whether he takes the same tactic from mccarthy saying what about hillary clinton, et cetera, and not focus on what donald trump, the man, the former president, has been accused of. andrea? >> i want to take this opportunity to bring in joyce vance. i just noticed something the attorney general of new york staid in an interview in a podcast. she suggested somewhat surprisingly to me but perhaps not to you, you know the 11th circuit so well, that her case, the civil case involving donald trump and his finances and his

company's finances as well as the d.a. in georgia's case involving january 6th, you know, as well as other cases. bragg's case, would have to now be held in advance while this case and potentially the other federal case against donald trump proceeds. is that under criminal procedure and civil procedure? is that likely to take place? >> i think this is just a matter of practicality and not specific to district courts in the 11th circuit. i'll be interested on andrew's take. typically when you've got state and federal proceedings, prosecutors and judges work it out. often that means the federal case will go ahead. just as a practical matter, the process is more streamlined. it can be advantageous to let the evidence be compiled first.