we are continuing to follow the breaking news now in miami where for the first time, u.s. president has been arraigned on federal criminal charges. just a few hours ago, donald trump turned himself in for what is his second criminal indictment. the first, of course, having been in new york. in miami he made his first appearance in a federal court room charged by special prosecutor jack smith related to the handling of miss classified documents along with his co-conspirator for moving dozens of boxes all while being caught on video then lying about it to the fbi.

at no point did trump say a word to u.s. magistrate judge john goodman. it was his lawyer who pleaded not guilty on his behalf. the only restriction, placed on trump by the judge during the brief hearing is that he is not to have any contact, specifically about the case, with any possible witnesses including nauta, who still works for trump. i guess that will be based on the honor system. the date will be set for the next hearing presided by aileen cannon. she was the judge whose opinions have been twice overturned by a court of appeals and skating opinions. upon leaving the court, followed closely by nauta, in his valley role, trump waved from his motorcade to supporters who had gathered

there but unlike the violent supporters who showed up on january 6 prepared to mount an insurrection, today was more of a circus like atmosphere in the court, more in step with what you might expect in miami. while he remained silent in court, trump made a quick stop to greet supporters at a republican restaurant. he then hopped a flight back to jersey where he waved around reported classified documents for the classified documents. i have a great panel of legal experts to discuss this historic day but first i want to bring an msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin, who was in the courtroom today. set the scene for us for how that went. >> it was, in some respects, and ordinary arraignment and in

others, anything but because we had the former president of the united states being arraigned alongside his co-defendant and his valley, walt nauta, who as you noted in an earlier hour today is really an ordinary man trapped in extraordinary circumstances by virtue of its proximity to donald trump. one of the things i was struck by today is how trump's lawyers were actually talking to nauta during the arraignment today. the other thing that i thought was absolutely bizarre and certainly not typical is that when donald trump was done entering his play, when he stood up to leave, two rows of secret service agents right behind him stood up, got into formation and headed toward an exit of the courtroom typically used for criminal defendants that are in detention and they fell into a single line and

right behind them and that line was walt nauta, who in that moment, ceased to be trumps co- defendant i went right back to his role as trumps body men in principle i just like he was the night that trump had dinner with kanye west. walt nauta is always there. i've had folks ask me today is walt nauta likely to cooperate? is that the significance of his not entering a plea today? i don't think so. a person who is about to cooperate does not leave the courtroom in the role of an employee to his co-defendant. a person who is about to cooperate does not go with him to bursae and hold the door open for him. nauta is a person who is playing a role very different from co-defendants and conspiracy cases. most of those folks have every reason to cooperate. >> it is as bizarre as bizarre gets but i want to ask one more

question about how things went down before they showed up in court and that is been booked. both nauta and trump were booked today but please explain how only walt nauta had to take a mug shot. >> reporter: my understanding from the u.s. marshal service and our own reporters spoke to them today is that rather than use a mug shot that was taken during the booking process with respect to former president trump, they saved him that in dignity and used a publicly available photograph, so you're right. walt nauta went through all the usual hallmarks of the booking process. donald trump on the other hand, still maintaining some of the trappings and respect of a former president. >> let's ring in msnbc justice and legal analyst anthony coley. he is a former doj spokesperson and american garland.

i must nbc legal analyst weinstein. she is a former prosecutor and once clerk for merrick garland. and an assistant former watergate prosecutor and assistant attorney for the southern district of new york and date ehrenberg, i feel comparatively under educated among this panel with these illustrious guests. i want to start with the mug shots. i'm going to start -- i'm going to start with you, nick. let me tell you something, i have some really cute beauty shots of myself and i would think if i ever found myself in some sort of legal problem i would like to send them a beauty shot of me and have me

look like myself right now. why does trump -- but i would not get to do that. i would have to take a mug shot. you would have to take a mug shot. and of us would have to take a mug shot. why is it that donald trump -- he's not president anymore but when you're not president you're just a citizen. how does that make sense? >> i think probably the same reason they did not do it in new york. i think the concern is that someone in the system would pull that out and send it out to people. >> so what? donald trump is not subject to any further -- they are saying they spared him they in dignity. he has been indicted twice. that is in dignity. >> well, the other reason supposedly is because if he is a fugitive, they need a mug shot to be able to identify him and this is a guy everybody identifies. he is not a person that is not easily identifiable. >> that is true. well, we don't know what his hair looks like in the mug shot. let me go to this next piece. this is the other thing i found

very odd, trumps lawyer talking to nauta's lawyer. unusual in that these two are charged in a conspiracy together and it i don't know that their interests are 100% aligned. can you make sense of them talking to each other? >> i can. we do not know if they have a joint defense agreement that would give some structure as to how they talked to each other but their individual lawyers are supposed to represent their separate interest and i think the reason they cannot speak to each other directly, which is a very common condition and one of the ones imposed today, is that we don't want them to coordinate their stories with each other and somehow distort -- >> how do you stop them from doing that? >> yes. on the other thing is that we really don't want one of them to unduly influence, pressure, tamper with the other, and you

said honor system. i think that's right. this is really hard to enforce but i also think that this is something the department of justice is going to be monitoring. >> that you have to and i don't know how they're going to do it, honestly. so, the challenge for the people -- it is the people versus donald trump and versus walt nauta. donald trump went right to versailles after his moment in court. let me just give you a quote from someone who was inside of versailles. people who don't know miami very well do not understand that versailles is the hub for cuban-americans, but for a certain section of cuban- americans, meaning the most conservative, sort of older cuban-americans. it is actually great food. it's wonderful and the coffee is amazing but it is where republicans go. this is what one person said on the bursae crowd enthusiastically agreed with trumps assessment of the legal system. in this country exist the system of justice that is not justice.

if you have a last name clinton or biden you have one system of justice and if you have the last name trumpets a different system of justice. but the people in the justice department are relatively silent. there will only be a megaphone held by one side and that is donald trump. what is the challenge the justice department faces in communicating what they're doing? >> there are two courts in this country. there is the court of justice and then there is the court of public opinion. in terms of the court of justice, donald trump does not have a very strong case. we have seen the facts. they are so overwhelming against him. the surveillance video, et cetera, but it is the court of public opinion that he is really trying to sway the hearts and the minds of everybody. that is why it is so important for the justice department to keep the focus of this case on the facts. we talked earlier today when

you and i were both on with nicole about the need for the justice department to, at its very core, agree when petition by media organizations to allow there to be at least an audio recording of the proceeding. >> absolutely, or cameras in the courtroom. >> absolutely because donald trump is in the middle of a campaign and so that's why he's got to have them. >> the other character in this mess is florida, and florida is a particular thing, as you know. miami is its own world, and it is a heavily cuban-american community. it is heavily republican now. it used to be blue but now it is definitely more republican, but the case, it seems, will be tried in palm beach, your backyard. different jury pool, right? what would be the difference in your view between the jury pool for this judge is located and in miami where trump was today?

>> it's good to be with you. palm beach county is still bluer than miami-dade county and in miami-dade county they have a long history of acquitting public officials for corruption. perhaps because you have a large segment of the population who come from countries where being part of the government is a bad thing and so they just trust the government and so in palm beach county you don't have that. 43% of the voters in palm beach county went for trump. 46% in dade county. 43% of 12 is five. which means there should be supporters on the truck jury. all you've got is one and it is a hung jury but i think it is still a victory for the prosecution that is going to be in palm beach county. >> the other piece of it here,

inside of palm beach county, it is a sort of blue kind of well- healed -- the part where donald trump lives, which was not super friendly to him when he moved there, but mar-a-lago is its own sort of closed world, too, and so the idea of being able to keep nauta, who is the valley, from conferring with trump when he seems completely beholden to trump -- he doesn't even have a lawyer who is barred in miami. he could not even be arraigned today because he doesn't have an attorney. how could that be done particularly given mar-a-lago and how close to full world it is even though it is totally open for a wedding if you want to look at classified documents. >> they can spend time together, they just can't talk about the case. it is my understanding that

trump has been paying for nauta's legal fees up to this point but at some point, nauta needs to get a lawyer. his interests are going to diverge from trumps at some point. they have evan corcoran's notes. that is the real valuable stuff here. nauta can help, but every day he waits, it hurts his chance of getting a good deal. he's got to decide whether he's going to follow the allen weisselberg model or the cassidy hutchinson model. if he follows the loyalty model he goes to jail. he follows the cassidy hutchinson model, he gets his own lawyer and becomes a hero. >> the question is whether you can get him to flip. he is so loyal that the picture lisa ruben painted of him marching out behind donald trump, returning to his role as valley, immediately supporting subordinating himself to trump

-- he will flip. >> first of all, his already been approached to flip. from the government standpoint he was either going to be a defendant or he was going to be a witness and if he was a witness, this case would have stayed in the district of columbia, they don't have anything on him that give some venue over nauta and nauta is a key piece in this hope persecution because nauta, in a sense, is the albatross around trump's neck. >> how worried are you about the judge? >> the judge in any case has lots of power. she has power over low visibility things we might not see, like in jury selection. how deep is she going to go in questioning potential jurors to root out bias and in the federal system, the judge actually talks to the jury during that process. questions like what evidence can come in, something incredibly consequential in this case is whether she is going to let in the evidence from corcoran's notes. >> this is key. >> very key. 50 pages are really key for the

obstruction counts in that indictment. it's actually kind of hard to imagine some of those counts without him and that will be up to her whether she wants to do that, whether she allows the defense to argue some of these declassification defenses that we have heard, whether she thinks they are plausible enough to put in front of the jury. she could do things like directed a verdict. that is unusual but the most important thing, of course, is that she can control the timing and it is the defendant who has the right to a speedy trial and usually the defendant wants to have a speedy trial but it does not seem like this defendant is interested in having a speedy trial and she will have an opportunity every day to speeded up or slow it down. >> and he wants to wait till after the election. how worried should we be about aileen cannon? she's in your neck of the woods. how worried should we be that she's going to see this as an opportunity to become a hero to maga?

>> because she did get reversed, publicly humiliated, maybe we will see judge canon 2.0. she has been chastened and at least won't do things totally over-the-top because she knows the 11th circuit is watching. she doesn't want to be put in time out again so she could do things a little more subtle, like for example, allow more trump supporters to be on the jury, delay matters, or the thing she could do to most help trump's give him an extra lenient sentence. she could do all of those things without being overturned by the 11th circuit. >> i sentence you to four years in mar-a-lago where you can utilize your goldplated ballroom and your gold shower. she could easily do it, you are absolutely right. thank you very much. we continue our breaking coverage of today's arrangement of donald j. trump in miami .

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>> reporter: what we are witnessing today is the blatant and unapologetic weaponization of the criminal justice system. the biden appointed special counsel has saw fit to bring 37 federal charges against former president trump, the leading front runner, less than a year and a half before an election.

>> now playing the role of television attorney rudy juliana, alayna hub, everybody, an attorney known more for making furious statements than for a background in criminal law. she is not representing trump in a classified documents case. i wonder why? those comments you just heard are riddled with errors. let's correct what you just heard. trump faces 37 counts on seven charges not 37 charges. charge encounter not always interchangeable trends. also, president biden did not appoint the special counsel. attorney general merrick garland is the person who appointed jack smith to oversee the documents probe in the criminal investigation into january 6th and the whole bit about biden weaponizing the doj

to target a political opponent, which is likely to be a major part of trumps political offense, that is balderdash, too. investigation into trump was launched in february 2022, 10 months before trump announced his candidacy for president. joining us now is former federal prosecutor ankush. trump has had a challenge finding good lawyers. he does not have the family fabulous bookers we have at msnbc and we just find good lawyers everywhere. he is having some trouble. >> as of now it appears todd blanche is leading his defense in this case. mr. blanche is one of the lawyers defending trump in manhattan in response to the d.a.s prosecution up there, and it appears chris kies might be helping out here, but at the moment it appears trump and his

lawyers are trying to find more people to join the team and manage this effort, whether that is florida local counselor there has been some talk of bringing on a law firm to support the effort but it is very much up in flux. trumps legal team has been marred by a bunch of exits, entries, people do things that are not terribly wise, like offering public statements on trump's behalf that could later be debunked, so there has been this constant churn and at this point, it is really important for trump, if he can, to stabilize this team as he heads through this process. >> i think an obvious question one might ask, is that trump have multiple lawyers and you said mr. keyes, who got $3 million up front, very wise.

nonpayment won't be a reason for calling off the case, but walt nauta does not have an attorney with a bar license in the state of florida so he could not even go through today with all of the procedures. he was booked but not arraigned. what is the status of his legal situation? he does have one lawyer, but donald trump is not paying to get him someone else? >> that appears to be very much up in the air and i find it rather curious that it has not been resolved heading into today. granted, they did not have a lot of time but in the ordinary course, it's usually not that hard to find a local lawyer simply to do an appearance like this. so obviously, trump and his organization -- it is constantly chaotic but eventually i expect this will be worked out. he will get the representation he needs. the sorts of questions you are asking about earlier about coordination between lawyers, those are going to persist even after the point in which nauta gets his own attorney. >> it is telling to me that in

a state like florida, donald trump cannot find a lawyer. that should tell your viewers a lot about the strength of his case. number one, they need their own lawyers eventually, and then the second thing, he does not always pay these people. you know, there is a long list of vendors who have been stiffed by donald trump, so you can't blame -- >> he doesn't pay for the light fixtures. >> maybe attorneys get attorneys. >> now that we are going to be doing a demonstration as a country, for the whole country and the world see how the rule of law works, i wish is for him to have really good counsel and for it not to be a circus in there and for them to bring serious motions and to put the government to the test, as they should, and for this to really

be done by the book. i think we are better off as a country if he gets the right. people to represent. >> i think this is important. donald trump is going to try to have a strategy to make this go faster. i would foresee this thing getting tried within a year. this is someone who left trumps legal team last month. i can see them going through several discovery motions and fights over disclosure. each round of motions is going to take three months. that sounds like he's anticipating delay. he was also talking earlier about allegedly trying to drop motions about prosecutorial misconduct, which makes no sense to me. >> i think jack smith is going to come in with a plan. he's going to turn over those documents in the next couple of

weeks. he is going to give them full discovery. he's going to put it out there as quickly as possible and ask the judge to set down a very quick motion schedule. these motions are not complicated, whether or not attorney-client privilege applies. >> it has already been litigated. >> sure. the attorney and the client can disclose information to each other. it's not to commit a crime. >> let me ask you, do you know whether the justice department, as we have been talking about on the show, and anthony has already made the case for, do you think the government is going to ask for or support media asking for cameras in that courtroom? i actually agree with tali that there is a public interest in this just as theater but there is going to be a portion of people who believe this is completely unwarranted against trump. the best cure for that is for everyone to be able to see the

trial. do you have any reporting on whether the government will seek to or accept the idea of cameras in that courtroom? >> unfortunately i don't have any reporting i can share on that point. i am a little skeptical that they would make an effort like that simply because everything you have seen so far has been an effort within the bounds of reason to play this by the book, at least on the government side, but i just -- i completely want to echo all of the comments on this front, because this is a vitally important procedure and important that the public get access to it if the justice department can see its way to supporting that effort. i also agree it is very important that trump get credible lawyers here. it is better for the country if he does. they're going to be issues on appeal and frivolous motions and that sort of thing, so you are exactly right. it would be great if the justice department supported some publicity around the trial so we can get real-time access to what is happening.

>> let me go back to the table. both of you know merrick garland. >> i don't know the department will ask. i don't think the department will oppose if the media companies ask for it. >> yes, i think it is unlikely, because the department has been really conservative about this stuff, but i will say, merrick garland went to the public podium and explained the search warrant to the american people and that was unprecedented and jack smith gave a press conference when the indictment was unsealed, which was unprecedented, so i see a justice department that is absorbing and reflecting back that they understand this is a demonstration of why people go to work in that place every day . those are the values that steak. >> and they released this very readable 49 page speaking indictment. if you read it, it becomes hard to say this is some sort of a witch hunt.

you know something about this district. in your mind, how critical do you think it is, and do you suspect that it will happen? >> i don't think it is going to happen. to tell the truth, i'm not really in favorite, because you have witnesses who come in. if you go back to the simpson trial, people come in, they act for the cameras, you don't get the same unvarnished testimony that you would necessarily get when you are in a room. you have people acting for the cameras. even the judges -- everybody act differently. >> what about audio, though? >> that is for an oral argument. i think we have always had trials that have not been put on tv.

>> you know what we've never had? donald j. trump , the guy who originated january 6th. i'm just saying. great panel. thank you very much. still to come, two big guests. michael: and lawrence tribe. don't go anywhere. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ summer. it's the hungriest time of year for kids across america. kids whose hardworking families are struggling to make ends meet. whether it's working the crazy hours so you can have enough money for food or, you know, just giving up things for your personal self, and it's just yeah, gotta feed your kids. far too many kids are missing the meals

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like most of you, after reading through the very thorough 49 page indictment, i was wondering, what was the former president thinking? why does he believe classified documents produced by intelligence officials belong to him? why wouldn't he listen to his lawyers like christopher keys who advised him to be more cooperative with the department just a evan corcoran, who told him to just give the documents back. why doesn't trump realize that he has the right to remain silent? i don't have the faintest idea but who might be able to help us out is michael cohen, former trump personal attorney. his new book is called revenge, how

donald trump weaponized the u.s. department of justice against his critics. can you answer that question for us, for those of us who don't understand why he wanted just give the documents back, listen to those lawyers or do anything smart? >> because donald trump doesn't listen to his counsel, ever. what he will do is find as many people as he possibly can. he will ask as many people as he possibly can until such time as he finds the one person that agrees with his knee-jerk reaction. the problem is, that person is only doing it in order to stay in his good graces, something i would say that boris epshteyn is doing at the current moment. he's not doing donald denny service and in fact, you are seeing lawyers leaving donald's employ at an alarming rate, almost to the point of it doesn't stop, he may have to have a public defender representing him in the case for which he was indicted today in florida. >> about , who does not have a

b.a.r.t. attorney in florida, could not even be arraigned today. let mary just a little bit from this indictment. trump family member talking to walt nauta. trump family member good afternoon, walt. happy memorial day. said i thought you put boxes in the potus room. we will not have room for them on the plane. the plane will be full with luggage. thank you. >> good afternoon, ma'am. thank you so much. i think you wanted to pick from them. i don't imagine he wanted to take the boxes. he told me to put them in the room. he literally was obsessed with the boxes? why is he so obsessed with the boxes that he wanted to take them on vacation?

>> you know, we had this conversation several months ago when i told you that the information he had made him feel powerful, made him feel like he was the president again, but more importantly, he was holding onto them for what i would say would be nefarious purpose. i explained that it was, in his mind, a potential get out of free car but it also gave him relevance on the world stage. for example, whether they were going to have conversation with mohammed bin solomon, the crown prince of saudi arabia or the kim jong-un of saudi arabia or even the vladimir putin's of russia. it didn't matter. this was going to be the way he would show his importance. this is a way he knew he would be able to make a significant amount of money, and it would also remain as a get out of jail free card if, in fact, like what is happening now, there is an indictment or potential prosecution and incarceration. he can always turn around and use that information to basically extort the country that if you try to incarcerate me, i will release this information, which is top- secret, that will place the entire united states 's

national security at risk. you really want to play that game? that is how donald trump thinks. >> explained walt nauta to me on the scene of him resuming his role of valet on the scene of this arraignment. he has no power, donald trump is a former president. he has no lawyer and then walks out of the courtroom right behind trump returning to be his valet. as someone who is in the making attorneys get attorneys camp with trump, can you explain why he does not just flip on trump and save himself? >> because for some reason, he believes he is different. he believes donald will take care of him. he believes in the end, he will be okay. he will be in a greater position of power if, in fact, donald trump rises to the occasion and becomes once again, president of the united

states. he is fooling himself. you know, the other night on msnbc, i turned around and said run. walter, what are you doing? run, get out of there. it doesn't work well for anyone except for donald trump. if it was his own children, if it was done, i funky, eric, i would turn around and say the same thing. run as fast as you can. he's not spending a single dollar of the money he drifted off as the trump trash. he is not going to spend a single dollar to retain a lawyer on your behalf. and he will leave you in the dust simply because he doesn't want to pay the legal fee. if he gets word or he believes you're going to provide any type of information that is negative to him, he will not pay the fees.

he will leave you hanging. it makes no difference to him. he does not care about anyone or anything other than himself and his own freedom. >> what do you make about the fact millenia was apparently getting her hair done rather than being with her husband, nor even anke and jerrod? >> that's what i would call true love. nothing could be finer. then hanging out in a diner while your wife is getting her hair done and you're in the middle of an indictment or your daughter or son in law, who have pulled down over $2.5 billion as a direct result of your presidency calling themselves senior advisers. they should call themselves senior grifters. they realize they have made so much money that they are not willing to jeopardize a penny of it, even if that means distancing themselves from the father.

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actions in the justice department stunning indictment. including this photo showing all these documents probably containing our secrets, protected only by a cheap shower curtain on attention rod. >> you guys are throwing up the pictures today. there in the bathroom where they were on the stage. somebody who has been to mar-a-lago you just can't walk through mar-a-lago of your own accord, because secret service is all over the place. so if the documents are in a place in a room depending on the time of year, you can't even get in. there are three bathrooms at mar-a-lago. >> to look for the former president had boxes in the bathroom? >> i don't know. what is it good to have boxes in a garage that opens up all the time? >> 20, now laurence tribe, professor emeritus at harvard law school and coauthor of the book to end the presidency. professor tribe, thank you for being here. those are the unserious

arguments attempting to defend donald trump. i will set those aside and not burn your mind with them. but i want to go with some of the other defenses that trump might try to put forward in this case. the first one that he is putting forward is the presidential record. he said it a lot. lots of people don't know what it is. and the question here is whether a president, an ex president, can designate whatever records he wants to be private records and therefore he has access to them. presidential records act. is that a defense? >> no. really the special counsel's a good lawyer, he has figured it out, there is no question the presidential records act provides no defense for donald trump because it specifies that these defense related documents and the classified and secret documents at a minimum belong to the united states government. they actually belong to all the people of the united states. it's not it all like one of his

social media posts he compares it to, believe it or not, bill clinton's sock drawer, where some tape recordings that bill clinton made were designated as personal recordings. well, none of these things are recordings by the president or the ex president. they are top secret documents of the united states. that is a complete nonstarter. there is no legal defense. the only defense that i think he is mounting's defense of time. he's got a judge, aileen cannon, who intervened in the investigatory process in a way that, as you pointed out earlier, a very conservative 11th circuit court of appeals not only unanimously reversed but criticized her for. he's obviously counting on all of the discretionary things that she can do to slow things down so that they don't reach a resolution by the time of the

next election. the defense is delayed. >> his defense is delayed. is delay. personal, records this is according to presidential records act. the presidential records are defined as documentary materials or any reasonably segregatable portion thereof, of a purely private or non public character, we should not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the president, including diaries, or personal notes, functioning as a diary or journal which are not prepared or communicated in the courts of transacting government business. to make that clear, it is, as you said, documents that are personal. and in the case of bill clinton, taylor branch was writing a book about him and recorded interviews with him and he kept those recordings and a right-wing group sued, judicial watch, and he's or know these are personal records. these are very different. just for the audience to understand. donald trump's other defense has been, he declassified the

documents just by thinking about it in his mind. even though he admitted it, pro the indictment, that he didn't declassify anything. does it even matter if these documents were declassified? he had government records, he didn't give them back. >> for most of the counts, the count charges specifically that the material related to the national defense and that its exposure would greatly endanger the defense of the united states, whether they were marked classified or not. that's a complete red herring. it has nothing to do with it. but in any event, he admitted the indictment makes clear that he admitted that he knows he has no houdini power to just think the classification away for those documents that are classified. so that also is a non-defense defense. that is why he wants delay. when the rubber meets the road,

he has not got a defense. he's got to put it off and put it off until he hopes he will be the next president and he can pardon himself or some other republican can drop the case and pardon him. he is simply trying to avoid accountability. it's really vital for the country, not only that justice be done but that we see it done. that's why all the emphasis that people have placed i agree with on at least having at least a live feed of the oral testimony and the arguments before the judge cannon so she can't get away with effectively turning out the lights and making this invisible. >> that is what we hope happens. professor laurence tribe, always valuable to talk to. you don't go anywhere, i will be back with special coverage of the indictment of donald trump. stay with us. p. stay with us

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