lipid, you know, what our cell walls are, which, by the way, requires phosphorous, as well as rna can be made spontaneously in nature, so this whole idea of how life started on earth, one big idea is called rna world, where it looks like that may be very easy to accomplish, even on something like a tiny moon, orbiting far away from the sun. >> i never thought i could be so excited about phosphorous, i actually him. akeem o'shea, you have such a cool job, and you're so fun to talk to. thank you, it's great to meet you. >> thanks for having me. that's it for us this hour, join us for "chris jansing reports" every weekday, from 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. our coverage continues with "katy tur reports" right now. good to be with you. i'm katy tur. donald trump has pleaded not guilty to 37 felony counts of

obstruction, conspiracy, lying and espionage. what happens now? when it comes to republicans in congress, this time it is not so certain. a lot of them are split. some are willing to stick by donald trump, like senator eric schmidt of missouri who said that the charges are, quote, unequal application of the law. nor senator john barrasso of wyoming who said, quote, it feels political, it's rotten. others are being a little more cautious. after all, these are espionage charges. there's, quote, no way to defend the allegations said rep don bacon of nebraska. i would not feel comfortable with a convicted felon in the white house, said a rep from colorado. there isn't a clear ideological common denominator within this split. we're going to explore why that is. what is clear, and maybe this is part of the reasoning for some is that this indictment might not be the only criminal trouble

that former president trump could be in. there are two more investigations related to overturning the election, one federal and one in georgia. good news from either could change the calculus for more lawmakers on the hill or could there be something that the gop will use as a shield. house oversight has been investigating president biden and members have made big promises on what they expect to uncover. so why are some seemingly tempering those expectations? joining me now is nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, so ryan, first talk to me about this split. >> reporter: yeah, you know, katy, it's really hard to decipher what is the motivation behind the way that some republicans are acting and responding to these charges against a former president. you're absolutely right, it doesn't necessarily fall along ideological lanes. in many cases, i think it tracks

back to the personality of the individual member. there are some that hold up different aspects of the institutions, like the department of justice, the judicial system as it were in high regard, and if it goes through the process and he is convicted, there are some that would be uncomfortable with the idea of continuing to support him. but to be clear, katy, you know, the vast majority of republicans here on capitol hill, an overwhelming majority, i should say, seem to continually be, you know, pushing back to this talking point that they believe that there's an uneven way of justice being handed out by the department of justice and basically saying that the president, the current president joe biden should be treated the same way that donald trump has been treated, even though these are two remarkably different cases. he has a lot of support on capitol hill. >> andrea mitchell, our colleague the other day when the indictment was first unsealed want to know how members of the intelligence community, especially in congress would react, and the house intel

chair, mike turner, spoke to you. what did he say? >> reporter: we had a lengthy conversation with the chairman today, myself and a group of other reporters, and we pressed him on the idea of what he -- how he felt about the indictment of the former president, and he said that he's really concerned that the american public is going to view the biden situation and the trump situation in the same vein and that if the president isn't prosecuted, that would, to a certain degree, hurt the credibility of the justice department. when we pressed him on these very specific aspects of the case that are very different, the most obviously being the former president, according to the indictment had multiple opportunities to return the documents in question refused to do so or wasn't completely honest about that, and that's basically what led to the indictment, versus the situation with the current president biden who, according to what we have been told by his lawyers and those reporting on this he handed over the documents once he discovered that they were in his possession.

those are two remarkably different things. and also, one of the things i should point out about chairman turner's comments, if that should apply to mike pence, who the justice department said they would not pursue charges against. he didn't know enough about the case to put it in the same vein. what's interesting about this, the chairman's comments are not that much different than what we have heard from other republicans but he has been very quiet about this up until this point, and the intel committee on the house side has worked very hard to work in a bipartisan fashion and that was a little bit different than what we heard from the chairman today. >> when you talk about it in generalities, i think it's easy to make comparisons. when you get into the details, these cases appear to be vastly different. ryan nobles, thank you very much. and joining me now is nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. also punch bowl news cofounder and msnbc political contributor, jake sherman. gentlemen, thank you very much for being here. and, jake, it's good to have you in studio. let's talk about team trump and

what if anything they're doing or donald trump himself is doing to keep republicans in congress on his side? >> there is, i think, a litmus test that we are looking at, and i want to get to that litmus test question in a second, but i ask that question of a trump aid very explicitly on tuesday night at bedminster after the arraignment, and the way that he put it to me, the aid, was that we are watching and listening to what everybody says. this is wait that donald trump does it, and for donald trump, he intends to continue to be the son of the republican party. and he is somebody, though, who in the past has welcomed folks back into his orbit, despite distancing in the past here. as we move on and his poll numbers continue to stick in this area, the way that the aide suggested is it doesn't matter what their responses are right now, that they're going to come back to him, and so you might as well stick with him now. do not sidestep, don't step away. that litmus test i was going to get to, would you pardon donald

trump if you were to be convicted. that's a question that the other republican candidates are going to be facing, as well as members of congress. >> i understand why they may feel that way. we have had so many scenarios where donald trump has come back from what looks like the political dead. there's the access hollywood tape, the insurrection, the fact that he's been able to come back and still lead the republican party i think is still kind of surprise to a lot of people. is it surprising to members of the political party that even that was something they could come back and ignore and continue to support him. >> shocking to me, and listening to ryan, and i've heard a lot of the same conversations he's heard owner capitol hill, and you mentioned this before, the situation between joe biden and donald trump could not be more different. donald trump's lawyers took notes about donald trump saying don't return these boxes, deny their existence. so the fact that people could still, with a straight face, suggest that they are in the

same category is ludicrous, and, i mean, kevin mccarthy who we cover all the time goes on long, 30-minute defenses of donald trump still, the speaker of the house, in the hallways, every single day. >> is it because they know a lot of voters are watching different networks where the narrative is much different, many a network that's calling president biden a want to be dictator. >> they believe their political currency is derived from donald trump, which i don't think is the case. they lost the house in '22 based on a lot of candidates that trump supported. he lost the '20 election, the senate. he doesn't have great political staying power on a national stage, and they haven't realized that yet. >> talking about the shields they might use. we have been talking about president biden and his documents. there's also the investigation by house oversight, and the chairman comer has been hinting about evidence of joe biden being corrupt, the biden crime family is what we have heard. we have yet to see any of that

evidence. where does it stand, and what's going on with these tapes that we're hearing about? >> chuck grassley, the -- >> before you go there. let me play chuck grassley, let me play the sound so we can establish it for everybody. >> these recordings were allegedly kept as a sort of insurance policy for the foreign national in case that he got into a tight spot. the 10-23 also indicates that then vice president joe biden may have been involved in. >> these recordings are legit? you can confirm they were legitimate. >> i can confirm they were list in the 1023 the fbi redacted. we don't know if they're legitimate or not. >> we don't know for sure if they do, and they say what senator grassley says he thinks they're going to say, i think it's a different animal. >> we don't know really whether the tapes exist.

i mean, we just don't know that. >> can you explain what they're talking about. >> i actually have no idea. i mean i know what they say the tapes say that there's some tapes that are in existence that show basically a quid pro quo bribery scandal that involves -- >> if they have tapes that show this, that is a really big deal. >> a huge deal. but they're going off of basically a tip sheet. the fbi creates the report they're referring to. when someone comes to them, they interview them, and they say things. those are not corroborated. those are not factual. those are tips. reporters get a lot of tips that we wouldn't share with the public unless we corroborated them. at some point, katy, we're almost, what are we, six months into this congress. they're going to need to show that their maniacal focus, which is on these investigations, bear fruit. if they keep throwing out allegations, that becomes politically difficult for them? >> does it?

>> i think with the narrow slice of the electorate that's up for grabs. there are going to be states around the country that are going to get redrawn based on court cases where people might care about this stuff. >> you're talking about a narrow slice. i mean, i know we have been talking about the primary and donald trump locking up the primary, but he needs more than the primary to win, and is there an acknowledgment of that from donald trump's team that he needs to widen the tent? >> the only way you get that is by winning the primary. i don't mean to evade your question, but, katy, these people are living, the other night at bedminster, they went off about these tapes. i was talking to one guy before donald trump took to the microphone, i had to catch up on what he was talking about and the tapes. and what about donald trump and the arraignment today. did you read the indictment. he goes, i didn't read the indictment here, and in the case of mike pence, that is like what mike pence is working against here. everybody that he's trying to connect with are working off this separate set of facts, and

for mike pence, he's asked whether he would pardon donald trump, and he struggled to answer that. he was being asked that question from the right last night. >> do you think things can still change? there's more indictments that could be coming. i don't want to say they are coming. there are more investigations out there that could result in charging decisions. >> politically could things change? listen, i don't have a crystal ball, but i think the basic reality is if you're under four indictments, that's probably not a good thing for the swing, for the people that put donald trump in the white house in '16, who said this guy is going to be different. he's going to defy political gravity. he's going to be able to cut deals and break the gridlock in washington. he didn't do any of that from 2016 to 2020, but if they look at a guy that has four indictments, i can't imagine they're going to say, this is a great thing. i don't know, maybe i'm wrong. >> all of these hearings, the court proceedings are going to take place next year, after the republican primary. it's up to mike pence, nikki haley, tim scott, they're the ones that are essentially going to have to prosecute the case before the department of justice

or the district attorney, and they're not willing to. but they're going to have to do it, and make the case to all of these republican voters, this is what the department of justice said. this is why this is dangerous. this is why we need to turn a different direction, and so far they seem unwilling to prosecute a case. >> it's like 2016 all over. vaughn hillyard, jake sherman, thank you very much. an nbc news exclusive, what president zelenskyy told our richard engel about russia's must win, and what he answered when asked about his own must win. plus, daniel penny has been indicted for killing a homeless street performer on the new york city subway, what he's facing and what he's saying publicly to defend himself. and what you see is what you will pay. what president biden just did to get rid of those annoying junk fees that get tacked on to all sorts of stuff. we're back in 60 seconds. sorts of stuff we're back in 60 seconds (vo) sadie switched to verizon. now she has myplan. the first unlimited plan where she chooses exactly what she wants, and only pays for what she needs.

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in an nbc news exclusive today, president zelenskyy of ukraine said he believes if vladimir putin loses in this counter offensive, he will lose the war as in vladimir putin will lose the war. sitting down with chief foreign correspondent richard engel. zelenskyy claims the russians are fighting from a position of desperation. >> mr. president, it is very good to see you again. we are now until the early days of this long anticipated counter offensive. how's it going? what's the goal? how would you describe progress so far? >> translator: i cannot give you all the details. the rebels are offensive and defensive actions. things look not bad. i would say it's generally positive. but it's difficult. our heroic people, our troops who are now at the front of the front line are facing very tough

resistance. and we understand why. because for russia to lose this campaign to ukraine, i would say actually means losing the war. >> joining me now from kyiv is nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. what was left unsaid there, and i'm sure you got into this is not only do the russians need this win, the ukrainians need this win to keep on getting american and nato's support to prove that they are putting that support to good use. >> reporter: yes and no. so i spoke to him about that, and i spoke to other ukrainian officials, his advisers, do they feel the pressure that if they don't win immediately on this offensive, and immediately show results that funding is going to be cut off and that there's going to be some sort of reassessment, they're not framing it that way, and i don't think they see it that way. and president zelenskyy didn't

give the impression that this is a last hurrah and that if they don't show results immediately, that it's game over. they know that this is the early phase of a counter offensive. they know that more weapons are still in the pipeline. they know that aircraft are still in the pipeline. and if they overextend themselves, because right now they're fighting to take territory. they're fighting against the russians who are dug in, and who have mined their positions. it is a very difficult thing to do. harder than defending your own position, defending your own home. so they are on the offensive. generally, yes, they do believe that they need to show to their backers and allies that they are committed to this fight. but they certainly have already proven that in the past over a year that they have been fighting. so they want to make progress because they want to make progress. not because they want to prove it to the united states or

france that they deserve to continue to be supported. well, one thing they are watching very closely is the debate in the united states. all the comments that are coming particularly from republican lawmakers, presidential candidates, calling into question the level of support. that is making them extremely nervous. they were nervous before the midterm election, and breathed a bit of a sigh of relief that red wave never quite materialized, because we saw some of the rhetoric coming at that time, and now they're watching the presidential candidates very closely, and they're concerned about comments from -- president zelenskyy is concerned about comments by ron desantis saying that this is a territorial dispute between ukraine and russia and that get more deeply involved in it is not in the u.s. national interest, and when president trump who claims that he could solve it in 24 hours, president zelenskyy said, well if he can solve it in 24 hours,

which is what president trump has claimed numerous times, why didn't he solve it when he was president, he had the opportunity, there wasn't the same level of conflict going on right now, but there was still a conflict between russia and ukraine, didn't solve it. zelenskyy might say that entered into a whole different set of negotiations over funding, over this conflict that has been amply discussed. he did say they are watching that closely because it is vital to their interests to watch it. >> i was going to play the sound that you had there. can we play it? >> reporter: that's what i thought you were going to do. >> i thought so too. >> this country's very survival depends on the assistance of the united states, other allies and several republican presidential candidates are expressing concerns about support for ukraine. what would you say to them?

>> translator: what would i say, is any candidate or senator who thinks it costs too much for the united states to support ukraine, is he ready to go to war, to fight, to send his kids? are they ready to die? because anyway, they will have to do this if nato gets involved. and anyway, if ukraine will lose, if russia will occupy ukraine, russia will continue going towards baltic countries et cetera, they will start war with one of the nato countries and at this moment, the united states will have to choose, the collapse of nato or go to war. >> reporter: so his basic argument is that although things are expensive, although they are painful, you cannot ignore them, ignoring a painful problem does not make it go away. and he believes that this is not just a war between ukraine and russia, that this is a war that

russia has launched against the free world, that russia is challenging nato. and that unless you draw a line in the sand and stand up for your beliefs here, and stand up for your allies that the problem that you choose to ignore will not go away, but will become worse. >> richard engel. congratulations on the exclusive. >> thank you very much. >> the delay is killing us. >> if you believe that, the choice is simple. if you don't believe that and you believe this is a regional conflict that can be ignored, then i think that's really what's hanging in the balance here. what do you believe is at stake in this conflict. >> well said. richard engel, thank you very much. and coming up ahead, what the southern baptist convention says women cannot do under god's law. first, though, indicted, what we know about the charges daniel penny is facing for choking jordan neely to death in a new york city subway. g jordann a new york city suaybw

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a grand jury has indicted daniel penny, the man accused of killing a homeless street perform other than a new york subway. the 24-year-old marine veteran has been charged with second-degree manslaughter for placing jordan neely in a fatal choke hold last month. joining me now is nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk. tell us everything you know. >> well, katy, you know, we

don't know the specifics of that indictment. we're working off of what sources tell us when it comes to the second-degree manslaughter charge. there could be other charges in there. it will be unsealed during the arraignment, which is scheduled for june 28th. we do have a response from jordan neely's family, the attorneys for jordan neely. they say in a statement daniel fenny's indictment is the right result for the wrong he committed. the grand jury's decision tells the nation no one is above the law. he did not have the right to be the judge, jury and executioner. we did actually hear from daniel penny himself over the weekend in statements that his attorney released. him actually on camera explaining himself. here's what he had to say. >> this was a scary situation, and mr. neely came on. he was threatening. i'm 6'2", and he was taller than me. i looked around, i saw women and children. he was yelling in their faces, saying these threats.

i couldn't sit still. people say i was trying to choke him to death. which is also not true, i was trying to restrain him. >> reporter: at the heart of this, whether or not he acted? self-defense, and whether or not people felt threatened, like their lives were at risk on the train. >> joining me now is msnbc legal analyst, paul butler. what is the bar for a grand jury to hand down an indictment like this? what would they need to see? >> probable cause is the standard, significantly lower than the proof beyond a reasonable doubt that's required to convict at trial, but katy, this grand jury would have been able to subpoena evidence like videos, 911 calls, witness statements, and the medical examiner's report. all of that evidence would have informed its charging decision. >> when and if this does go to trial, presumably there's video that was taken that we've all seen. there might be other angles. there are going to be the witness statements that you're

talking about, part of what police say was taking so long was they needed to just find out where everyone was and interview them about what happened. what is penny's best defense here? >> so he's going to say that he was acting in self-defense. he'll try to persuade the jurors that he was afraid that mr. neely was going to kill or seriously injure someone on the train. he'll say that based on what mr. neely was doing, that was a reasonable belief, and, katy, the evidence seems to contradict that defense in part, but that same kind of argument worked for bernard guest, the so-called subway vigilante who shot four young black man on a subway in new york and was found not guilty by a new york jury in 1987. >> that's true. all right. thank you very much, paul butler. appreciate your time. coming up next, what will be different the next time you buy concert tickets or rent a car?

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okay, so you would like to rent a car for a family vacation. it is $240 for the week. great. yes, check out. wonderful. that will be $361, please.

what's going on? $25 for a concession fee recovery. 12 for a vehicle license fee. 39 for the customer facility charge? that is $120 in fees alone. 50% of what the actual car itself costs to rent. if you have booked a rental car or a hotel room or concert tickets, you know that the listed price is often a lot farther from the actual price. and now the white house says it is doing something about those so-called junk fees. joining me now is nbc news national political correspondent noah. >> ticket providers said they are going to end the practice of hiding some of the add-on fees until you get to the checkout. from now on, starting later this summer when they get everything

worked out, you will get an up front, all in fee. the price you see at the beginning is the price you get at the end. that is big step forward for consumer transparency. >> when you're looking at a price, especially for a rental car to go on vacation, you're putting it in a budget for the vacation. okay, this fits into my budget, when you get to the checkout, wait, hold on, $120 is a lot more for this rental car, and it throws everything out of whack. >> so the president's made junk fees across all of these industries a big priority over the last few years. a lot of work behind the scenes. >> it's a bait and switch. >> it is, and they're called junk fees for a reason. many are mandatory fees where you get nothing out of it. a hotel resort fee in a hotel that's not a resort. i did research, some of these hotels are giving you access to a fax machine and a towel by the pool. these are things that should be included in the price of the room or not at all. the biden administration says we're going to crack down against all of these industries, rental cars, tickets, hotels,

funeral homes, today's announcement was a big first step. >> who's to say all the fees may not get rolled into the price? >> they probably will in many cases, and that is the capitalism side of this, there's supply and demand. taylor swift tickets were going for 2 grand, 1,500 for the ticket, $500 for the ticket fees, but there's a demand. the biden administration says we're not done here. we want to pass legislation, in the meantime, if we can at least make it transparent, this has broad bipartisan support. >> the people that went to the white house for a meeting, was this just the president admonishing them? was there any way to shame them into stopping this? >> what they have been trying to do is shame industries, using their levers with the ftc, doj, what we saw today was a bit of a victory lap saying we have ticket companies who are on their own pledging to be more

transparent because they're doing it together. no one wanted to disarm and say we are going to take a competitive disadvantage, it took everyone getting on board and someone to negotiate with that to get it more transparent. >> don't take advantage of the swifties, not fair or the dads of all of those swifties, and moms. noah pransky, thank you very much, appreciate it. when the covid-19 public health emergency ended, it triggered a change in enrollment policy in medicaid. that could push as many as 15 million people off the government health coverage in the coming months. that includes 5 million children who may rely on that health care for life saving treatments. as "politico" reports, while all states are removing people from their medicaid roles, several republican-led states appear to be moving at breakneck speed, and no state is moving as quickly as arkansas. joining me now is "politico" health care reporter megan messerly, thanks for being here.

explain what's happening in arkansas? >> as you mentioned, arkansas is moving through the process in half the time that the biden administration is urging states. arkansas is doing it in six months. this is a result of the law the legislature passed in 2021. so 140,000 people have lost their medicaid in arkansas. 70% of those lost coverage for procedural reasons, meaning the state didn't make a determination that made too much money, rather they missed a letter, didn't know information they needed to provide to the state or fell through the cracks for other reasons. this is concerning to a lot of patient advocates, providers, patients themselves on the ground who i spoke with. >> is this just to save money? >> so if you talk to the governor, she in an op-ed for the "wall street journal," you know, wrote about this being a strategy to, you know, be fiscally responsible, to free up resources, for, you know, the

state's most vulnerable, for people who need them, so yes, there is a money component here, the state is paying in some cases private insurance companies, you know, money to cover these individuals. some of whom may no longer be using the care. this is the argument that governor sanders and the republican legislature have been making for why this six-month time frame is the right way to go. >> we mentioned 5 million kids could potentially be kicked off, and these kids might need this health care coverage. how do you come to those numbers? >> these numbers are from the federal government. there have been a lot of different projections over the last year. so states have geared up for this process. obviously the concern here is that, you know, not only are there 15 million people who are slated to lose coverage, but a lot of these are kids who need this care. i talked to a woman, her four kids lost coverage. i was supposed to meet with her in arkansas. she was crying because her son had lice, she was shaving his

head. she couldn't take him to the doctor. there are real world impacts for people falling through the cracks and losing coverage. >> thank you very much for joining us. coming up next what the southern baptist convention says women cannot do under god's law. one of the women they specifically say is breaking religious doctrine, there she is, joins me in a moment. don't go anywhere. , joins me int don't go anywhere. it's making me think of doing other things i've been putting off. like removing that tattoo of your first wife's name. inspire. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. (vo) sadie switched to verizon. learnnow she has myplan.rtant safety information the first unlimited plan where she chooses exactly what she wants, and only pays for what she needs. she picks her perks, and saves on every one. all with an incredible new iphone. act now and get iphone 14 pro max on us when you switch. it's your verizon. ♪♪ when you have chronic kidney disease... there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here.

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convention says there are some things that only men are allowed to do under god's law. yesterday they took a vote on it deciding overwhelmingly that a woman cannot be the spiritual leader of the church. in other words, women cannot be pastors. two churches are no longer allowed to be part of the sbc, that's saddle back in california, and fern creek, in kentucky which were de-fellowshiped. southern baptists ares largest denomination in the state. they have been debating women's role in ministry for years. on wednesday, messengers or voting members voted to make things clear, approving a constitutional amendment to specify that southern baptist churches must affirm, appoint or employ only men as any kind of pastor or elder as qualified by scripture. that rule will need a second vote at the next annual meeting in order to go into full effect. joining me now is one of those

pastors, linda barnes popam, of the fern creek baptist church in louisville, kentucky, she has led her congregation for the last 30 years. thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> why do you think this vote was so overwhelming, it was the thousand 700 to 806. >> well, i think that people who don't like to fight anymore don't attend southern baptist convention meetings, and i think that those in control have so much control over the southern baptist convention minds of people and over all the decisions that are made that they have finally just driven it to this point. the baptist faith and message was adopted in 2000 that said women shouldn't serve in these roles, but it's always been accepted that we follow any of the baptist faith and messages. we actually adhere to the 1963 baptist faith and message which

certainly allows for that to happen. >> why do you believe they think that you don't know what you're doing? >> wow, i haven't had anybody ask me that way. i don't know if they think that we're a threat, if they think we're incompetent, because all i know is that god has called me to do this, and i'm called to take the gospel to the ends of the earth. that's what he's called me to do and to preach at fern creek baptist church, to be the pastor here, and i'm sure of that calling and i don't know why they have put themselves in the place of thinking that they are the ones who do the calling. because it's god who does that. >> you have been doing this now for 30 years. >> well, actually, i started at the church 40 years ago, and have been preaching for 33, but officially for 30. >> okay. how is your congregation reacting to this?

>> the congregation is saddened that these people whom we've called family don't want to send the family anymore, but the congregation is also very hopeful because we know that god is so much bigger than the southern baptist convention, and we know that he has great things ahead of us, and we just thank the southern baptist convention for giving us so much advertising. because we have been able to share our story. >> what happens if you're out of the convention? what does that actually do to your church? >> well, it means we will not be giving money to them. it means that we will not be doing their programs. it means that we will not be participating in so many of the programs that come down the pipeline every year. so really, it is way much more of a loss for the southern baptist convention than it is for us. >> participation has been down for years. what message do you think this is sending to people who might be interested in joining the church and what message do you think it's sending to women?

>> i think it's sending a message to people that southern baptists are fighting and so we don't want to be a part of that. i mean, they're not going to want to be a part of that. i think it's sending a message to women saying, you know what, you're really not that valuable, and you really aren't wanted that much, except to do the specific tasks that we call you to do. now, don't listen to god, i'm just so grateful i grew up in a southern baptist church that told me to listen to god. it's a sad day for southern baptists. >> i want to play if you don't mind, sbc president bart barber talking about this. >> okay. the fact sbc bart barber talking about this. >> the fact is there's never been a moment that the southern baptist convention was supportive of the idea that women could occupy the office of pastor, office, or overseer.

and made a passionate argument from the floor to suggest that there are no limitations based on sex for people being able to serve in any role in the church. and for them i think what we would say is southern baptists and your church are in different places and seem also to be moving in different directions. >> so, pastor, i know i asked it in a blunt way why don't they think you know what you're doing, but here he is referencing you in particular. if you strip it all away, isn't that the message, they think women can't do this job, they're not equipped for it? >> they do. and one among their own ranks said you are so much more qualified than most of the men we have in southern baptist pulpits. now, i wish those people who say those things to me would say that publicly. and i know that to be true as i look around, and i'm not trying to promote myself in any way.

i want to promote jesus christ, but i tell you what, i see people that are not real effective in that role, that are not ministering in the way god has called our churches to minister. and we're not baptizing, so why would you want to get rid of a faithful church doing the work of god? >> pastor, thank you very much for joining us. i appreciate it. and thank you for answering my questions however bluntly i asked them. >> thank you. coming up an nbc news exclusive, another one, what nine women are suing bill cosby for in nevada. for in nevada. i have the responsibility to let my children know who they are. and where they came from. and what my ancestry is. and what my hopes and dreams for them are. ancestry is such a great gift for someone who not only loves history but is also a great storyteller. it was the best gift that i ever received in my entire life.

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vegas, in reno, and in lake tahoe between 1969 and 1992. the suit was filed weeks after the governor of nevada signed a look back law that eliminated the two-year statute of limitations for adults to file sexual abuse cases. several of the accusers spoke exclusively about it with nbc news daily anchor kate snow. >> why are you filing suit? >> to take back my power. >> it's time for him to be responsible for his actions. >> culpability, justice. >> what these laws changing means is that perpetrators can no longer hide behind an arbitrary time limit called the statute of limitations that victim's plaintiffs will be able to present our evidence, our testimonies, and our witnesses in the court of law no matter how much time has passed. >> mr. cosby does not stand convicted of any crimes in connection of past allegations

made against him, and he's denied repeatedly the a accusations. joining me now civil rights attorney and msnbc legal analyst. crystal was part of a legal team that prosecuted bill cosby for indecent assault against andrea constand in 2018. thank you very much for being with us. very famously was convicted and then let off, so that conviction no longer stands. why will it be different, or could it be different in nevada? >> well, this will absolutely be different in nevada because the main reason that it got overturned and while again i respect justices and as one of the prosecutors i have to respectfully disagree with their decision. but their decision was based on a prior agreement made by the former prosecutor bruce caster, and that is nonexistent in this particular case. interestingly many of the plaintiffs in this civil case were actually prior act witnesses or provided testimony in andrea constand's case against bill cosby and really

the county's case against bill cosby while andrea was the victim in that case. i'm thrilled to see this lawsuit as a former prosecutor of bill cosby's case because i actually guided one of the plaintiffs through her very emotional testimony where she detailed the graphic details of being drugged and then assaulted by cosby to a jury. and i can tell you that that process was as tough as it was necessary. i was deeply moved by jenna dickinson's powerful testimony where she shared her account and courage it was just completely undeniable what he had done to her. >> what are they looking for, what outcome? are they looking for more jail time? are they looking for a financial outcome? >> well, the only outcome in a civil lawsuit is compensation. i can tell you again from knowing these women first-hand it's not about the money for them. and i'm a civil litigator. i handle primarily sex abuse cases, and i can confidently tell you for most sexual assault

survivors it's not about the money, it's about justice, it's about accountability, it's about the healing, it's about closure. and for most victims and i know the victims in this case because i know them first-hand, it is about raising awareness about the effects and prevalence of sexual assault so that they can hopefully prevent it in the future. >> thank you very much, and i have a statement from cosby's spokesman andrew wyatt saying he's accusing the women of being to media attention and greed and he said we'll not allow these women to parade various accounts against mr. cosby anymore without vetting them in the court of public opinion and inside of the courtroom. that is going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now.