groups of biden voters who disapprove joe biden, the low hanging fruit, the persuadable folks who want him out if you are a republican party, they could say whatever they want about joe biden, and you say what about trump? they are like, absolutely not. that to me, is the fact i don't understand why more people in the republican party don't say it. >> we are talking about republican leaders in washington, or republican voters? donald trump created a cultural movement and decided to park it in today's republican party. i think the biggest gamble of all is donald trump is hoping to land the actual trial after the early primary dates in florida and march. the biggest scandal for the country is exactly the same because of donald trump wins the gop primary, the nation's likely saved another term of donald trump or a republican like donald trump, because joe biden beats him. >> all right, david jolly, thank you very much. that is all in on this thursday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening alex. alex wagner >> it is a sign of s

when dave jolly says things about predicting that joe biden is going to win this and donald trump is going to be defeated again. a bit nervous, right? even though he is facing potential multiple federal indictments, and multiple investigations, i am still like, really? you really think biden can beat him? >> yeah, i know. nothing is a sure thing. but it's like, if you are trying to get the least popular figure as our nominee, donald trump is definitely that. that just what the data say. >> that is what the data says. all right, have a wonderful evening. thanks to you at home for joining us this evening, if you are republican running for president in 2024, there is one question that you knew that you would have to answer. what do you think of donald trump being indicted on federal criminal charges? and you would think, at this point, anyone entering the race for the republican nomination would be prepared to answer

that question. and you would be wrong. today, miami mayor, francis suarez, announced he is joining the pack of candidates running for the republican nomination. he gave his first interview to good morning america, and then that interview went like this. >> what did you make of the indictment? >> yeah, one of the things that happened in miami is that people were hoping, some members of the press were hoping that there would be anarchy. i think what miami did is what miami has done. we have lowered -- >> i asked you what you thought of the indictment. >> i want to talk about miami. >> what did it mean to you? i'm trying to get its simple answer to that question. answer that question. what do you think about the indictment? do you think it shows that donald trump is fit to be president? >> i think when it shows people are frustrated in this country, especially republicans who feel

like there is not an equal administration of justice. >> that is what happens when you go on national television to announce your presidential campaign without a good answer to the most important question facing the republican field right now. it is something everyone else in the race has started to figure out. and that is why they have all started to coalesce around a new talking point, whenever they are asked about donald trump, and that strategy is blamed the department of justice and the fbi. >> i think the doj and fbi have lost their way. i think that they've been weaponized against americans who think like me and you. >> we have seen the politicization at the department of justice for years and years. >> what we have seen over the last several years is the weaponization of the department of justice against the former president. >> the doj and fbi have lost all credibility with the american people. >> that is a new republican line when it comes to donald trump's handling of classified

documents, the department of justice and the fbi have been weaponized. the person who is supposedly weaponizing the two organizations is, in their mind, joe biden. never mind the fact that joe biden has stayed far away from trump's prosecution as a sitting president possibly can, refusing to even comment on this case publicly. conservatives have gone all in on the idea that this is biden's secret plot. on the day of trump's arraignment, fox news ran this graphic alongside their coverage of biden and trump. want to be dictator speaks at the white house after having his political rival arrested. fox later told nbc news that the -- was taken down immediately and addressed internally. the central idea that biden this some kind of autocrat who turned the justices stomachs trump, that idea remains the idea of every fox news statement about the indictment.

trump has taken all of this to a new level and has started saying things like this. >> i will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of the united states of america, joe biden. and the entire biden crime family, they will name a special prosecutor. >> okay. the former president, who wants to be president again, is now openly vowing to turn the department of justice against his political enemies, at the exact same time that his defenders are accusing joe biden of doing exactly that. which is, wow. the hypocrisy here seems to be lost on most people in trump's party. because this vow, this campaign pledge, whatever you want to call this has now gained traction in the republican party on hold. republicans have decided that the solution to this alleged plot between the executive

branch and the department of justice is to erase the line that exists between the department of justice and the white house. here is governor ron desantis in an interview on fox news. >> the republican presidents have accepted that the doj and fbi are quote, independent. they are not independent agencies. they are part of the executive branch. they answered to the elected president of the united states. >> that view, that the doj and fbi should not be independent from the presidency is actually gaining traction among conservatives, and not just the ones whose name and in trump. the new york times points out today, mr. trump's promise to use the justice department to go after his enemies fits into a larger movement on the right to got the fbi, and abandoned the norm that the department should operate independently from the president. the most powerful conservative think tanks are working on plans that would go far beyond reforming the fbi, even though it's senate confirmed directors in the modern era have all been

republicans. they want to wrap it up and start again. president biden, who has thus far maintain the strict division between himself and the department of justice, is accused of being a want to be dictated by the republican party. and the gop solution to this entirely phantom problem is to give a future president complete control over the department of justice. so long as that president is a republican. joining us now, our senior editor and host of the amicus podcast, and former missouri senator, claire mccaskill. both our legal analyst. thank you for joining me tonight. clare, let me start on this reality, and hypocrisy of this moment. to see republicans accusing joe biden of being a want to be dictator and then embrace saying it kind of new form of governing that would effectively allow the next president to become a want to

be dictator? >> it is really weird. first of all, harvard law school is calling ron desantis. they want their law degree back. you know, it is the embarrassing -- that he is an educated man who is spouting this stuff. the same thing with some of these other people who are saying let's blow up, you know, the rule of law in this country, they always want to talk about the founding fathers, do you think the founding fathers would be good with this? that we would have some kind of king-like figure that could directed people to arrest people on a whim? the rule of law held under donald trump, because they were both men and women who made sure that it did, even though he tried to blow up that line, and think about this for a minute. if joe biden is somehow manipulating the justice department, why in the world would he leave a trump prosecutor in charge of his own son's investigation? you know, this is so bizarre to

me. i mean, he clearly is trying to stay so far away from this, just as he did in the obama -- i am forgetting the obama administration, when i tried to talk about what was going on in ferguson. he put up his hands, he said clear, i will not talk about anything that has to do with doj. we'll not talk about it. you are welcome the call doj and talk to them and make sure they know what you think you know. but i will not talk to you about it. that is the rule in this country. it has always been the rule. the only one who wants to blow that up it's donald trump. because he doesn't have either the facts, or the law on his side. >> dahlia, i was surprised that it is not just trump. it is the heritage foundation that is now trying to make the case for blowing up the fbi. i want to call everyone's attention to this analysis that you have on slate this week, and i will read an excerpt from it. yes, the legal walls are

closing in. as they do for some, the power of these legal walls is crumbling before our eyes. the more criminal trouble trump finds himself in, the more his political capital rises, the more the rule of law champs, the stronger the forces who hate the rule of law actually become. that is the conundrum of this moment, right? that the notion that this is the rule of law, doing what is supposed to do. finding wrongdoing and prosecuting it, and at the same time, the after effect of that is to erode the power of the rule of law. >> i think that this is the mistake we keep making, thinking about the rule of law, or the legal system, or accountability and send themselves. and merrick garland can just perform independents, if joe biden could just perform independents if jack smith could just perform that he is acting independent of the white

house, then somehow the rule of law gets vindicated. i think what we are learning very despairingly as you say, is that the rule of law is not in and in itself, and all these fancy harvard law accredited people are perfectly happy to say that this has nothing to do, i didn't read the indictment, i don't care what is in the indictment, i don't care what the presidential records act says, or the espionage act says. the way you do this, you have the need to have a legal conversation by simply saying the words which hunt, saying the fixes in, saying deep state. then, everybody who believes in you doubts that illegal resolution could be fair. i think the most pressing thing i keep seeing is this statistic that says 76% of republican primary voters are already convinced that this is a purely partisan witch hunt investigation. and they know that there is a threat to national security, but what was done, the

underlying predicate facts here are deeply damaging to national security, and to relationships with allies, and they don't care because it is a witch hunt. i think once you are at the point where politics have out-run the rule of law, and where politics and power are an end to themselves, to get this exact place, where whoever says witch hunt loudest, whoever says weaponize the justice department the most ferociously winds of the day? >> it feels like the end of something, and the beginning of something else. to dahlias point about i don't care, i don't have to read the indictment, i was shocked that the reporter this week, the former chair of the judiciary committee in the senate, said about the indictment, i have not read it at all. i am not a legal analyst. i will leave it to the professionals to tell us about it. i read everything i kind of secondary sources of, it but not the original. clare, you know chuck grassley? this person is a former chair

of the senate judiciary committee, saying i can't read about that indictment, i'm not a legal analyst. >> he is the same guy that has run around saying that somehow, the justice department is being weaponized. how do you know? stop running for a minute, you got lucky, he's a very old man who has kept himself in great shape, physically. but mentally, he has got to absorb the fact, that this indictment is full of evidence, it is evidence, and they do not want to read it because they don't want to be confronted with evidence. they are way more comfortable doing this. my question for them is this. the fbi is widely respected around the world, in terms of its training, in terms of the job they do, in terms of getting really bad guys to work worldwide, and ones that particularly are good at doing crimes across state lines,

human trafficking, drugs, money laundering, all kinds of complex crimes. what do these guys think are going to happen if they just fire everybody? all of a sudden, someone else is going to spring up, it is perfect? i don't even understand how this would work. who enforces the federal law, well we are busy going out and finding hundreds of guys who work in sheriff's departments, in some rural community, that they say go trump, and they try to train them to do some of the most complex legal work, investigative work in the world. i do not even understand how they could say this with a straight face. >> i think that is such an important point to make, which is what they are proposing. which is actually ludicrous. i would go to you on this notion of the theory of unified executive theory, the president has all the powers. and all the powers are consolidated under him, which seems really an unofficial wackadoo, but it is --

it seems like this theory is actually being embraced by some on the far-right. can you talk a little bit about that, and what kind of threat that poses to a free and fair democracy? >> it is so fascinating that the most amazing fact in this is the big purveyor, or one of the big purveyors of this theory that we should tear down the wall between the justice department, and the white house, and the justice department should just serve at the pleasure and mercy of the president, is none other than jeffrey clark, who was the guy you may recall, who donald trump wanted to be attorney general. not because he was fit to be attorney general, but because he was the only person the doj who would have done whatever donald trump wanted done, so that he could stay in power. the notion that these post-watergate reforms, these essential reforms that try to

construct a wall, the wall that senator mccaskill describes between the doj and the white house. this notion that we will take the wall down, so that we can construct an entire justice department that does nothing for four years but go after the bidens? for no crime that has been made, just for being bidens? and that that is an idea that is being embraced under this theory of menard kick theory of presidential power is -- it shows to me how far we have moved, even bill barr, the most discredited justice department official that we had pretended that there was a wall between the justice department and the white house. now we are not pretending anymore. that is a far move in a couple of years. >> clare, biden told the white house and aides to take a vow of silence on the topic of the indictment. he directed the dnc to do the same. i understand that from a legal

perspective, and to some degree a political one. if these calls are met unanswered, what fills the void, you worry about that strategy? >> it is scary. i will admit, seeing people that are as educated as ron desantis and jeffrey clark, and the heritage foundation, and people who purport to be constitutional original lists, they spout this stuff, and it is scary. the fact that they are feeding it to trump supporters, and republicans as fact when it is not, is also scary. because dahlia is right. the rule of law is what we perceive it to be. it is, if people have to believe in it, they are doing incredible, permanent damage. i will say, i don't think most americans want a president in charge of deciding who is prosecuted. i think most americans see that this is a serious case, with no evidence. i wish the federal court would

see the beauty of a televised trial in this instance. regardless, i think most americans will come down on the side of what joe biden believes in, and what i believe in, and what we all believe in, and that is that cases should be decided on the facts, and the law, and nothing else. i think that provision will win the day politically. even if the other side is feeding all of this bs to their supporters. >> i appreciate you sounding a note, thank you both for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. >> you bet. >> coming up, one south carolina school district was shown in this video about systemic racism. plus, donald trump's, his reputation is catching up with him at a really inconvenient time. that is up next, stay with us. a more viable future for our kids,

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are you ready? food for everyone. food for everyone! [applause] >> on tuesday, shortly after he was charged with 37 federal criminal charges. donald trump visited the top of versailles and miami.

it is a rush on where politicians love to stop for photo ops. while he was there, trump promised to buy food for everyone. it was an unusually generous offer from trump, who is not known to have santa like instincts forgiving. everyone cheered, and were presumably warm feelings in the room, and yay, free copy for everyone! except no one got anything. the miami new times quotes a knowledgeable source who said that donald trump stop at versailles totaled about ten minutes, leaving no time for anyone to eat anything, much less place an order. yeah. that sounds a little more familiar. trump is not really known for paying his bills, after all. according to usa today, trump has been involved in more than 3500 lawsuits, a large number of which involve workers who say trump and his companies refused to pay them. in 2021, trump refused to pay

rudy giuliani for his legal work. as and the lawyer who spearheaded his bogus claims of election fraud. last august, fox business reported truth social stepped a contractor out of more than $1 million. a standup guy, free food for everyone! this reputation is not helping trump as he continues to search to find a lawyer to represent him in federal court in florida. abc news reported today that trump's history of legal turnover has led some attorneys to turn him down, while others have asked for retainer fees that trump's team view as excessive. however, multiple sources also tell abc news that trump has several options for lawyers who could join his legal defense. in the meantime, trump's defense and florida is being fronted by a man named christopher case, a lawyer trump retained last year, and who made sure to get all of his money upfront. $3 million, to be precise. joining us now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama,

and the coast of sisters and law podcast. it is always good to talk with you, especially on a matter like this where i think a lot of people do not know what exactly lawyers would be doing at this stage of the game. and why it is important for trump to have counsel representing him. can you shed some light on that for us? >> this is a critical case to have a strong defense team from the start. one of the reasons we know that, we saw judge cannon enter an order directing trump's lawyers to proceed as quickly as possible to get security clearances so that they could begin to review the government evidence in this case. that is not a job for one lawyer, it may not even be a job for two lawyers, frankly, the evidence looks to be fairly complicated and voluminous. the defense lawyers do not have a lot of time to get to work here. they will need to prepare their emotions, they need to review the classified documents and under the statute, they will

have to indicate what they would like to use at trial. a lot of work to do, you need your team in place to get there. >> joyce, in terms of judge cannon, i know that there has been a lot of -- we spend a lot of time on her cv yesterday, a lot of people have focused on her rulings in the special master case, which were highly controversial, and ultimately turned down, if you will. she, today, as you pointed out, added an order to trump's docket. that would suggest she is not recusing herself from this case. is that a fair assessment and you think, at this point, there is any chance she might? >> so, i think she has not recuse yet. but she has not been asked to. the justice department has not filed a motion asking her to recuse. we don't know what she would do if they file that motion. they may also decide to play the long game here, and wait and see if she makes an additional ruling that is sort of in the same category as her

earlier rulings on the search warrant case. this sort of thing that they would take an appeal on, and then ask the court of appeals to reassign, or to have the chief judge reassigned the same case to a different judge on the real risk here for the government, they can appeal her now. they can appeal her ruling's pretrial. once there is a jury seated in double jeopardy, her rulings will determine in large part whether or not there is a conviction. she controls, for instance, what evidence will be admitted at trial, and if there is an acquittal it is too late. doj lawyers, prosecutors, they don't -- >> i want to talk about that. what evidence is admitted seems to be a big question that trump 's lawyers would like to litigate. they are not happy with the piercing of the attorney, client privilege. the client fraud exception that allowed the doj access to evan corcoran, trump's lawyer, his

voice memos, that have played a huge role in the indictment. do you think there is a chance that judge cannon says that these emails cannot be used, or these voice memos cannot be used as evidence, none of the correspondence between corcoran and trump is admissible? and how much stock should we put in the 11th circuit in terms of acting as a check on judge cannon? >> so, a lot of complicated, difficult questions. alex, you know my crystal ball, i sort of not trotted out too often. i will do it in one regard here, to the last part of your question about the 11th circuit. the 11th circuit has a good track record, on this case in particular, but in general over the sway of time. they believe in the rule of law, they followed the law, they are committed to doing that. they know how to move quickly, when quick movement by the court is needed. i think we could have confidence, whether we like all of their rulings or not, i believe the judge is going to

look at this issue, and they will apply the law to the facts. that is something that we can have confidence in. you know, there are sophisticated nuances here. some involving the facts, some involving the law. as to how judge cannon may look at this question of whether or not the government will be able to use evidence generated from trump's lawyers. there is a little bit of an aspect to this issue that this particular issue has already been decided in this case by a judge in the district of columbia. trump tried to take an appeal, and the court of appeal, and the district of columbia told him no, we believe that the judges decision, that the government is entitled to use what would normally be lawyer, client material is one that will stand here. but there's still avenues to try to attack that. we are in a different circuit, and that decision was made in a pre-indictment posture. so perhaps trump's lawyers will get some traction, legally.

when you look at the facts here, at least to the extent that we have seen in this indictment. what the government is alleging it can prove, it seems quite clear this is a strong case, if i can remember seeing, for piercing the attorney client privilege. and when she gets down to considering the fact, she will have to rule the same way the judge in d.c. did. >> as we are speaking about lawyers, and evan corcoran in particular, it strikes me as in a word, bonkers, that this person has offered the most damning evidence in this mar-a-lago indictment, and continues to represent donald trump in the january 6th probe that is launched by the special counsel's office. does that strike you as odd? >> i think bonkers is the perfect way to describe this. i don't really know what to make of it. as a lawyer, you have ethical obligations. the bar, in the state where your barleson's issued, certainly will hold you accountable if you violate those rules.

it is a little bit curious of a decision by a lawyer that they would not step aside once a decision like this was made. but corcoran has maintained that he is not cooperating with the government. that he was, in essence, a hostile witness and testified only to the extent he was forced to. this is unusual, to say the least. i think that is fair. >> given the difficulty that the former president is having in finding new council, it may not be wise to get rid of the council he does have. joyce vance, thank you as always for making the time. >> thanks, alex. >> we still have much more to come this evening. republicans are playing games with human lives, and creating a humanitarian crisis for democrats to clean up. plus, what happens when you try and teach students about systemic racism in south carolina? that's next. 's next. ♪

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narrator: the man with the troublesome hemorrhoid enters the room. phil: excuse me? hillary: that wasn't me. narrator: said hillary, who's only taken 347 steps today. 348, 349... hillary: i cycled here. narrator: haha! on an e-bike... speaking of cycles, mary's period is due to start in three days. mary: it is? narrator: and her friend hasn't washed his hands since... monday! yeah, i'd put that back. and then there's bill, whose heart rate rises to 115, nervous i'll mention... bill: my diarrhea? narrator: his chronic night sweats. linda: you sweat more at night than you do at the gym. narrator: which is rich coming from linda,

who's wearing yoga pants but never does yoga! linda: i stretch! bill: how do you know so much about us!? phil: i don't like it... narrator: it's your health data, you've been sharing it without realizing it. that's how i know about kevin's rash. and your halitosis! lice! jay: it's true. narrator: and... ringworm! haha! who's next? wait... what's that in your hand? no, no, stop! way to ruin the fun. [lock clicks shut] >> this is jamal, he is a boy

who lives in a poor neighborhood, he has a friend named kevin who lives in a wealthy neighborhood. all of jamal's neighbors are african american, all of kevin's neighbors are white. >> that video about systemic racism is part of an assignment that a high school teacher in south carolina, named mary would, she gave to her ap language class back in february. the video was supposed to prepare students for a writing

assignment based on ta-nehisi coates book, between the world and me. it bestselling more that deals with america's complicated racial past and it's present. but her students never got to finish reading that book. her school administration stepped in and ordered her to stop teaching it in class, after complaints from two students about the video you just saw. last year, south carolina state lawmakers passed a rule on the state budget that makes it illegal to use state money to teach any ideas related to race, including that an individual, by virtue of his race for sex, is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive. and ideas that cause an individual to feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, for any other form of psychological distress on account of his race or sex. if that language sounds familiar, it is because it is almost an exact replica of language in florida governor, ron desantis's woke act. thanks to the emails those two

students sent to a member of their school board, we know just how uncomfortable the students were. one email reads in part, hearing the teachers opinion and watching these videos made me feel uncomfortable. i actually felt ashamed to be caucasian. i understand that ap language, where we are learning to develop an argument and have evidence to support it, yet this topic is too heavy to discuss. another wrote, i was incredibly uncomfortable, and was in shock that she would do something illegal like that. the students sent their complaints not to the teacher, but to a sympathetic school board member who was instrumental in escalating the matter. that board member, elizabeth bernhardt, ran for and won her seat with an endorsement from the lexington county chapter of moms for liberty. and moms for liberty is quite enthusiastic about what is happening in mary woods classroom. earlier this week, they re-tweeted teaching critical thinking should not require indoctrination. students are pushing back.

now, moms for liberty as an organization that first in international attention by disrupting school board meetings in florida over covid policies intended to mitigate the spread of the virus. the group has since expanded its reach nationwide with what they say are 285 chapters and 44 states. moms for liberty has expanded its focus as well, to target books, and the teaching of race, lgbtq rights, and other inclusive curriculum. that mobilization prompted the southern poverty law center to designate moms for liberty and extremist groups. meanwhile, the groups influence is growing beyond the classroom. last month, later this month, they are planning to hold a summit in philadelphia. at least four republican presidential candidates are expected to attend. because right now, culture wars are republican policy. still to come tonight, 2024 presidential politics may be about to get weird. i mean, they are already kind of weird.

but this time they are getting we are on the democratic side. we are going to explain that. plus, republican governors are using human beings as pawns to score political points, and in a game that has no winners. we will tell you what democrats are doing about it, coming up next. next (vo) sadie's done paying for wireless bundles with things she doesn't need. so she switched to verizon. and now, she has myplan. the first unlimited plan that lets her choose exactly what goes in it. now, she gets to pick only the perks she wants, and saves on every one. and with an incredible new iphone on us, no wonder sadie is celebrating. introducing myplan get exactly what you want. only pay for what you need. act now and get iphone 14 pro max on us when you switch. it's your verizon.

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very familiar. migrants, flown, or bust from border states, to liberal cities, left and politically pointed locations like outside of vice president kamala harris is d.c. residents. these are not coordinated, humanitarian efforts, they are stunned by republican governors, using people as pawns to own the libs. often getting less than a days warning to governance, and local charity groups helping migrants in those cities. it happened yesterday, in los angeles. a local humanitarian group, the coalition for humane immigrant rights in los angeles, was tipped off only one night before republican texas governor, greg abbott, bust 42 migrants to their city. according to the humanitarian group, the migrants, including children, and toddlers, arriving in los angeles after a 23 hour bus ride without food. a claim that governor abbott denies. for many of these migrants, being shipped to a random liberal city means, family separation, and the destruction

of their asylum claims. that was the case for arriving in l.a. accessory. they told the california humanitarian group that ian integration interview in new york, which he now risked missing. he said, i don't know how to read, i don't know what this paper says. all i know is what they told me i need to be somewhere in new york. is that nearby? the group told the new york times that when they learned that migrants were being bussed to l.a. they thought it would be a false alarm, like the many they had heard in the past. in the past two weeks, governor ron desantis flew 36 migrants to sacramento california, but the stunt has become so common, even though this was the first time republican governor sent migrants to california, the city was ready. last night, l.a. mayor, karen bass disclosed, she directed the city to plan for an event like this last year. yesterday, migrants were immediately brought to a local church where they were given food, and supplies, and toys

for the children. they were offered attorneys, and help to get to their, actual, intended destinations, so they may continue their legal immigration process. this is not a natural disaster that los angeles developed a contingency plan for, it is a man-made one. one that has now been repeated, so frequently, that responsibly running a city requires planning for stunts like these. joining me now, tim miller, former communications director for jeb bush 2016 presidential campaign, now writer at large for the bulwark. tim, thank you for being with me. the experience you had working with jeb bush's critical in a moment like this, when you try to understand how the cruelty, the expenses, the gains men ship that all of this became good optics for republicans seeking higher office. how did we get to this point? >> it's crazy how dramatically things change.

for an example how seriously job took this issue, he wrote a book with chapter, upon chapter. i'm not sure all viewers agree with every suggestion he had, but the point of it was, how do we come up with a reasonable policy that balances securing our borders with being humane, and being compassionate? remember, compassionate conservatism. the departure from that, from what we're seeing right now, just on both levels, is it's not a serious effort to solve this crisis. greg abbott is saying, i will go work with other governors, we need to share the burden. i interviewed jared polis for the bulwark. he's reasonable, welcome, libertarian, i should mention that is someone you could cut up, and cut a deal with texas by saying, look, let's share some burden, but it's not what's happening. this is not an effort to solve the problem. it's a troll. it's a troll because, unfortunately, the reason why this is changing between the republican party is because it is what republican voters want.

the relevant experience i have, not on the campaign, but last year, during the mid term, going to kari lake, and a blake masters event in arizona, the desantis migrant stunt, the bs migrant stunt, was the biggest applause line of the day for masters. of course, there's no personality, but this just shows that republican voters are motivated by this. that is the most pressing part of this whole thing. >> i remember you going to that event tim. the fact is, there is the economic cost. if you are an anti migrant state, it will cost you, economically, based on where labor is the states. there's also that ron desantis is filled as coffers with $12 million allocated to own the libs, by using migrants as pawns. he's taking texas migrants, and paying for their flights to liberal cities which is, on so many levels, absolutely, i keep using the word bonkers in this

program, but there is no other word for it. the essence of this, is what you point out. it's the cruelty. to me, it seems like immigration is becoming this county fair for, republicans to show off their cruelest policies with. why the last to be mean? why has that gotten such a toehold? why has that seized the imagination of the gop? >> i think there are a lot of underlying elements. i hate to point everything at trump, but i do think that trump did unleash peoples dark angels. i think it is true. people got a taste of it, of enjoying watching ham insult, degrade, to mean the people they didn't like. they liked having him say things, and propose policies known would imagine, like a muslim ban. i think this opened the door to

this, and other copycat saw there, were these base instincts within the republicans and, they are republican electorate, and they had a response to this. i think the desantis thing, to your point, is such a category difference. the greg abbott thing is gross, and like i said, he at least is on a border. the desantis thing is, purely, a performative stunt, paid for by florida taxpayers, so not conservative in that sense. there is no substantiated need for it. he surrounded by water, he is not on a border, there is no policy to be solving, and it is purely a, i know republican voters will respond to being mean to these migrants, and more importantly, being mean to liberals, the so-called snooty rib liberals that, they want to send these people to. it's a sickest part about all of this, with regards to desantis. it's not even a policy issue

he's dealing with in the state, it's strictly performative. >> it's mentioning that desantis won 58% of the latino vote in florida, where he has an active some of the most draconian immigration policy, making it harder for migrants to get to the doctor. it is beginning to affect the support among latinos. i'm wondering, so publicly broadcasting this deeply cruel policy towards people who, also, happen to be largely of hispanic origin would be a problem for those trying to seek reelection? >> desantis didn't do that, and some of the rhetorical stuff was before the election. but substance was not. this bill they passed in florida, for example, where you have very deep punishments for people who were even traveling with migrants, giving aid to migrants, traveling across the state. bringing them from where they may have traveled to to another

part of the state for shelter, or whatever. now, there is felony penalties for that in florida. so, i do think that will hurt him, i think he benefited, we can all show why ron desantis got 15% for that. his opponent, some of the covid elements, there were other things in the cuban community down there, but i do think that it will hurt republicans and, interestingly, some latinos, but a big portion of the folks who have lost college educated, suburban republicans, people who are attracted to compassionate conservatism. who have abandoned the party, in droves, and those are people of every race a, lot of white folks in the suburbs, who are being turned off on this. i think you're seeing that in the l.a. suburbs, the phoenix suburbs, republicans being punished. i think desantis will be punished in the same way with those voters. >> then, just the weight on one's own conscience to send toddlers on 23 hour-long bus rides with no food. tim miller, thank you my friend

for your time tonight. >> thank you alice. >> we have one more story with you this evening about how the 2024 race may be about to get weird for president biden. that is next. that is next ried gain flings for the first time the other day... and forgot where she was. [buzz] you can always spot a first timer. gain flings with oxi boost and febreze. meet stephanie... goodnight! and bethany... [guhhnnaaaghh] identical twins. both struggle with cpap for their sleep apnea. but stephanie got inspire. an implanted device that works inside the body to help her sleep. unlike her sister. there's more than one way to treat your sleep apnea.

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inflection point, back in february 2020, following representative jim clyburn's endorsement, candidate joe biden won the south carolina primary, putting him on a path to win the democratic nomination. since then, president biden has signaled of desire to get big, diverse states like south carolina a larger role in his party's nominating process. back in december, biden has democratic leaders to switch the parties primary calendar for 2024. he asked for south carolina to go first, and leapfrog less diverse states like new hampshire and iowa. last february, when the dnc officially voted to adopt south carolina's promotion to the front of the pack, new hampshire and iowa were not happy.

new hampshire officials said, they would ignore the change, and argued, state law requires them to hold the presidential primary at least one week before any other state. officials in iowa announced, they are in the process of holding their contest in the same day as the republican caucus, which is in january. also, at the front of a calendar. this is where things get weird. if iowa, or new hampshire, go rogue, president biden, the man who is certain to win the democratic nomination may be forced to keep his name off those ballots for noncompliance. this means, long shot candidates like anti-vaxxer, robert kennedy junior, or spiritual adviser, marianne williamson, either of them could win the first two democratic nominating contests of the year. if that scenario, somehow, does play out, the dnc has warned it would strip those states of their national convention delegates, meaning their primaries would not count. tomorrow, in minneapolis,