father figures, happy father's day. before we, go i have a very exciting guest to announce for next. week former house speaker nancy pelosi. we'll talk about the one year anniversary of roe v. wade being overturned, the politics of the moment, and yes i expect a certain former president to come up. be sure to watch the readout on tuesday. night joey reid will have a special remarking when your post roe, with vice president kamala harris. that does it for me today. we'll be back here next sunday at noon eastern. but stay right where you are, because there is much more news on msnbc coming up next. up next. >> a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters. here in new york. welcome, everyone, two hours or ports. we begin with a new and scathing assessment of the classified documents case against donald trump.

the game a short time ago from comes former attorney general bill barr >> do you believe he lied to the justice department? >> but i personally believe? it yes. the legal theory about what you guys to take battle plans and sensitive national security information as his personal papers is absurd. it is just as wacky as a legal document they came up with for having the vice president unilaterally determine who won the election. obviously if these documents are not purely private. it is obvious. he is a very petty individual who will always put his interests ahead of the countries. his personal gratification of his ego. our country cannot be a therapy session for a troubled man like this. >> indeed. he also says he expects major developments to some in the doj investigation into the events of january six. also new this, our democrats reacting to the trump arraignment and prospects for his upcoming trial.

>> he goes into the bullying and bombastic mode where he tries to make the other side as miserable as possible. and hopes they will go away or settle on good terms. when you are dealing with a federal prosecutor, that stuff just does not work. it does not matter. it is just background noise to the federal prosecutor but it's not going to help him at all. in this case. >> and some breaking, new secretary of state anthony blinken wrapping up a day of meetings with his counterpart in china. a state department spokesperson says they're reading five and a half hours and the visit comes after years of frosty relations but the republican chair of the house telegrams committee says he expects a thaw. >> if you are calling for us meeting that blinken had with the chinese counterparts in alaska, they actually chastised him. they came out foal born criticizing the united states. i think you're going to see a much more temperate response from china at this point because they're feeling the heat there with the american public. you can see china now is a

threat with the administration i think turning up the heat. >> major developments in all those headlines this hour. several ports from beijing and washington d.c. and delaware. and we're gonna begin with the breaking news from china. with one of the central questions. will antony blinken get an audience with china's president xi jinping? nbc's janis mackey is there with the very latest for us. janice, welcome. how important is this trip? >> alex, this is a crucial visit at a critical time. when competition between the u.s. and china is fears and relations are borderline toxic. trust is not a low. neither side is expecting any breakthroughs from this visit. but the fact that it is even happening, though the secretary of state is here, it is a sign that things could move forward. considering they've been on hold for four months now. the spy balloon will no doubt factor into the discussions. there is already the suggestion that the conversation has not

been warm. but there are a host of other issues to. tariffs, export bans, those military close calls. spy bases on cuba. russia. the list goes on. there was only one meeting on the schedule today for the secretary of state. it is with his chinese counterpart shooting dog. he is the foreign minister. there is the expectation that secretary blinken will meet with china's leader xi jinping tomorrow. if it does not happen then that will be considered us now. considering a.g. let met last friday with bill gates and told him then, you are the first american front to visit beijing this year. for chinese officials, the key issue was the economy. data is showing that growth is slowing down here. so in that sense this visit is seen as a necessary one to get the next visits up from the treasury secretary and the commerce secretary. those could actually happen within the next few weeks. all of it paving the way to a

possible meeting between two jinping and president biden. in the u.s. before the end of the year. alex. >> all, right janis mackey, thanks for. that now in washington where we just got a new reaction from lawmakers to the trump indictments. nbc's julie tsirkin is joining us once again from capitol hill. julie, it is quite a contrast of opinions on both sides of the aisle. so what are you hearing? >> yeah,. alex let's first talk about republicans because with president biden, being silent on this issue and directing his top allies to stay silent as well, republicans are of course the loudest voice in the room when it comes to the response. to the former presidents indictment and his arraignment. earlier last week. now the majority of them are not in the middle of this. they are not defending the former presidents actions which i think is very notable. but they are trying to tow the line here and continuing this rhetoric that's the government is somehow weaponized against conservatives. you will recall the day of a committee in the house designated under speaker mccarthy to investigate just that, long before this

indictment. and of course as we prepare for potentially more indictments down the pike, it will be interesting to see how republicans continue to message on this issue. now all of them that i'm referencing right now that are in this sort of group include of course presidential candidates. that include senator tim scott who spoke on fox news this morning. take a listen to him tell toeing the line. we'll talk about on the other side. >> the first thing we have to do is fire joe biden. the second thing we do is fire eric garland. the third thing we do is fire chris right. we have to clean out the political appointments in the department of justice, to restore confidence and integrity. in the doj. today this doj continues to hunt republicans while they protect democrats. and it is not just a former president. >> we know this is a reckless man who believes that he is above the law. that the roles do not apply to him. that's the thing that i'm concerned about with many of my colleagues in the gop. they believe that there is a

two tier system. but the two tiered system is not to punish them more. it is -- too they want them to get away with more. every day americans. >> now, alex, that was congresswoman stacey. plastic she is the top democrat on the committee serving alongside chairman jim jordan who promises to take this all the way to the top. sending a letter to attorney general merrick garland, asking him to explain his actions up until when he got that search warrant from mar-a-lago to get those documents from the former president. but look, all in all the tone you are hearing from senator tim scott he was running for president of course, he is potentially going to matched up against the former president in that primary. which is going to be very heated. he, is of course, toeing the line to make sure he does not alienate the former presidents. voters who still make up the majority of the republican base. >> right you on all. that let me just on this for our viewers. you're gonna be off in a few weeks for a wonderful reason. best wishes on your wedding. i want to see photos of the beautiful bridal soon as you

can send them. so enjoyable. we'll see you on the other side of, it miss. you have. fine >>. thank you so much. >> you're welcome. >> in the meantime, new today, reporting the president biden's reelection campaign is off to a deliberate start despite his first rally. nbc reports the president has yet to establish a headquarter, and the staffing is minimal. other reports say that fundraising has been kind of slow. let's go to nbc's garrett -- in the beach in delaware. gary, welcome. despite the new report, biden supporters say to still early, right? >> yeah, well it is early. but 506 days until the general election, alex. so it is not that early it is already been a month and a half since the campaign officially kicked off and began. they've hired a campaign manager but just this week they went about hiring a communication manager. so they're moving along in a very deliberate process. mike and emily and jon allen nbc news are calling it a booze garden strategy. where the white house is

thinking, what the campaign is, thinking is that what the president is going to do is stay away from the white house and do the administrative work. things he wants to get done legislatively and through executive orders. that's what he's going to sell to the american people. something that he can do that nobody else in the field can do. here's what senator sheldon whitehouse distiller today. >> no. i think he's got a lot of time ahead of them in a lot of runway. and i think that's just laying a good and solid base, strong endorsements like he got out of the environmental community last week and he got out of the labor community at this big rally, is just a way to go. i don't know the people are interested in a whole lot of campaign noise out of him. and i think he is doing it right. >> something the white house and the dnc are going to be doing a lot of in the coming weeks is fundraising. there is a point there are 20 fund-raisers plant between then and. today and it will benefit their presence reelection campaign. everywhere from park avenue to dallas, texas.

alex? >> that's a lot of fund-raisers. thank you for the heads up, gary glenn. block breaking news from illinois, police are searching for whoever was behind a mass shooting that left one person dead and at least 19 others injured. it happened as a group gathered in a mall parking lot near chicago. but witnesses described a chaotic scene with people running for cover. police say it is unclear whether there was one or more shooters. we are back in 60 seconds with the view from trump plan. how donald trump's process and what is happening this past week and whether his legal problems are already impacting his campaign. plus, reaction to a must-see interview we did yesterday. >> he was pressing his lips. pursuing them tightly together. and then the corners of his mouth just dropped, into the deepest frown i have ever seen. have ever seen nging new plan that lets her pick exactly what she wants and save on every perk. sadie is getting her plan ready for a big trip. travel pass, on. nice iphone. cute couple.

trips don't last forever, neither does summer love. so, sadie is moving on. apple music, check! introducing myplan. the first and only unlimited plan to give you exactly what you want, so you only pay for what you need. act now and get iphone 14 pro max on us when you switch. it's your verizon. our heritage is ingrained in our skin. and even when we metamorphosize into our new evolved form, we carry that spirit with us. because you can take alfa romeo out of italy. but you best believe, you can't take the italy out of an alfa romeo. >> new speculation over donald trump's state of mind in the wake of federal indictment, witnesses of the miami rain

last weeks as a trump's demeanor's arms folded and eyes closed and drop clenched show a distressed side of trump they've never seen before. >> he got even turns to leave the room and is bleeding down on the ground. and he was pressing his lips. pressing them tightly together. and then the corners of his mouth just dropped into the deepest round i've ever seen. and anyone in my entire life. this is a man that takes a lot of room. he commands an audience in his voice is hard. in this case we had totally different facial expressions for donald trump. he was not hard once in the courtroom and it was just a moment in history that will never forget. >> joining me now is meredith mccraw, national political correspondent for politico. , meredith. welcome i know you were at trump's new jersey golf club on tuesday. where he held that fund-raiser just a few hours after he was arraigned. and where he was again described as not being out of

character. the times's maggie haberman says he gave a very loner free speech and didn't socialize with the crowd of friends and donors. what was your take on his appearance? and what is your sense of the anxiety level trump is experiencing right now? >> well, trump's advisers will say to you look, the former president does not want to be indicted. this is not something that he has been yearning for it all. even though they really try to turn this into a political advantage with his fundraising, and with how trump has taken his points about the weaponization of the federal government onto the campaign trail. but at the end of tuesday there is been a long day for him, he came out and gave it was sort of a rally style speech to a crowd that included people who had just wandered in off the golf course. or members of his club. but also some of his top donors and advisers. and some of his most loyal allies in this campaign, had invited to come in. including senator tommy a top

irville. who missed a vote that day to drawing trump at a fund-raiser. but when i talked with people who have been in touch with trump over the weekend and two are with him at that fund-raiser, they said he continues to be defiant. he continues to blame them. say that he is the victim here with all of the -- in his speech. he really tries to lay out what might be what his case is before the judge. >> let me ask you specifically on, that will pick up on the defiant part because he made quite a few wild and false claims and that new jersey speech even if it was low energy, where he said the documents probe was illegal and president biden's role in its. is there any sense that trump's political track and attacks may hurt him on a legal front? >> well i was told that trump's lawyers looked over his speech, before he gave it their indictment star. but some of the things that trump was pointing to, legal

experts have said probably won't hold up in court. trump is continuously talked about his own interpretation of the presidential records act. although it has been noted that he is not being charged for a violation of that in this case but rather violations of the espionage act. and he also talked about the clinton socks case which is a presidential records act case that involves former president bill clinton. let trump claims completely exonerates him in this point. and he also talked about how he plans to arrange for a special counsel to investigate biden and biden's family if he does get reelected himself. which some have also said is sort of the pot calling the kettle black. >> well look, to that and he remains the gop front-runner. you've reported those campaigns raised 2 million bucks in the fund-raiser. he did four and half million a digital fundraising since news of his indictment broke.

what does that money for? can it be used for legal defense or is it strictly for campaign matters? >> well trump did raise over $2 million that night. at that fund-raiser. those are some of his top funders that came in town to meet with him. he did a brief meet and greats. and sat with them for dinner after that speech. and then of course his team has banned stepping out with lots of emails and trying to get a lot of grassroots digital donors. support and now all of that money is going in part to his campaign and then to also he has his to save america fun. which is where some of his legal funds have been coming from. >> okay. thanks for lending all of that and more. good to see you. president biden said something about that chinese balloon incident. which could not play well in some parts of the world but

maybe not everywhere. a house member on the china special committee joins me with a reaction. but first the celebrations today for america's newest federal holiday. federal holiday. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ when it comes to your hair, ingredients matter. that's why herbal essences is packed with naturally derived plant ingredients you love, and none of the stuff you don't. our sulfate-free collections smell incredible... ♪ and leave your hair touchably soft and smooth. ♪

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celebrations are underway ahead of the juneteenth holiday tomorrow. it marks the third annual federal recognition of the historic holiday. nbc's marissa flores at one of these events in georgetown, washington d.c.. it is a big advance.

talk about the celebrations,. marissa and what people are telling you about them. >> yeah. so remember that this is still a new national holiday. this was only recognized in 2021 so there are events like this one happening behind me where a lot of the mission is just to raise awareness and we are speaking with some of the organizers here. and you're gonna hear from him in just a moment but he said he still has people coming up to him asking what the event is about. that is why they are here at the george town waterfront. because for those who've never been to d.c. or don't know the austere here in d.c., d.c. has been a predominantly black area. we are talking about the georgetown docks. which were run by the black community at one point. so they are here to remind people of not just the roots in d.c. but also what juneteenth is all about. >> the thing i want folks to understand the most is just, history is history. let's celebrate it and ensure that everybody becomes knowledgeable on it and let's just have fun and just continue

to have these conversations to continue to bring everyone together. >> so there are events happening across the country and when we talk about where juneteenth stands as a holiday itself, we know that in 2021 it became a federally recognized holiday. but in terms of a public holiday on a state level, we know that 28 different states plus the district of columbia recognized as such. there are still a lot of states who don't and we talked with all the events happening throughout the country. this one is going to be expecting over 400 votes run by black captains. and black crew members. we are going to be gathering out here. and when it comes to the mission of those events, it is going to be twofold. there is the mission of raising awareness of the holiday but also driving the conversation forward. on where the community stands and where they would like to go from here. and a lot of areas in a lot of spaces those conversations might be about things like reparations. but i can tell you right, now alex. you can probably see from the sun beating down this right now

it is a beautiful day. the move is great in the atmosphere is upbeat. and they're just getting started. here but, again one of many events happening across the country right here. in the district of columbia. >> there you have it. i say enjoy it for good reason. it is a beautiful day and wonderful event so thank you for sharing, appreciate that. you've heard it over and over from the gop. when it comes to donald trump, the doj is biased. next, a new theory about why that argument is so often repeated. repeated use it to set and track your goals, big and small... and see how changes you make today... could help put them within reach. from your first big move to retiring poolside and the other goals along the way wealth plan can help get you there. j.p. morgan wealth management. type 2 diabetes? discover the power of 3 in the ozempic® tri-zone.

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that every ministration since reagan has delivered to them documents and included classified and unclassified documents mixed. this is a systemic problem. now with respect to this edition it has been gone through before and i'm certainly not going to defend the behavior that is listed in that complaint. but they're going to have to prove it and it is a process that is going out to move forward. >> you were today from the intelligence committee chair mike turner as other republicans ramp up the tax on the department of justice. a new analysis in the washington post saying is that the right argues that doj is biased so it can make doj biased. citing trump has now pledged to appoint a special counsel of his own to investigate president biden. joining me now is must congressman jake closs, a democratic member of the house transportation infrastructure committee. as well as the select committee on china. i welcome you and with your happy father's day and thank you for joining us and taking

time away from our family. let's get into this congressman what you just heard there from mike turner's or how you see what is behind you republicans are talking the doj? that and that headline? >> representative turner, unfortunately it does not speak for the media and house gop member. representative turner is cautiously toeing the line and supporting due process under the law. to many gop members of the house and senate are just defaming in undermining the department of justice. at the same time, alex, they are increasingly hawkish on china. what i would say to them is it was not a big difference between united states and china. the big difference is the rule of law. here in the estates where the constitution in china to support a party. and these gop members are going to have to decide. do they bear true faith and allegiance to the constitution? or to their party? or to donald trump in particular? because if it is to the constitution than they should be saying that they support due process under their law.

and if it is to donald trump that frankly don't see much daylight between how they are acting and how they're criticizing the ccp for acting. >> interesting. as, you know biden has told white house aides in his reelection team to say nothing about trump's legal troubles. do you think he is making the right call? or is he missing an opportunity to hint at trump? >> as you know there's a firewall between the white house and the department of justice. americans would be forgiven for forgetting that with the trump administration but president biden respects it. and he wants to lead to the due process of law carry forward without political interference. and that is with all members of congress should be doing. they should be saying a jury of his peers found that there was sufficient evidence to issue an indictment. he's going to have another chance in the court of law to prove his case both on facts and on law. and we should allow this process to proceed without elected officials campaigning on it in order to win votes. and with their primary base.

it is reprehensible that members of congress and other gop selected officials would try to denigrate and degrade the rule of law, one of our most precious institutions in this country, just to curry favor with the -- from mar-a-lago. >> let's go back to the breaking. news as, you know secretary of state anthony blinken right there in china right. now his trip was delayed after that china's by balloon incident. it comes amid heightened tensions, certainly. what do you hope comes from this visit? >> well, secretary blinken is traveling to china right now in a position of strength. we are stronger in the indo-pacific relative shot and we were six months ago thanks to keith deals with japan and south korea and taiwan and indiana australia. we are establishing that we are going to have a strong presence in the industry's pacific for generation to come. we are stronger militarily because we continue to put russia on a path towards defeating ukraine. russia is of course china's no limit friends. and finally we are stronger

economically right now. relative to china. we have had 13 million jobs created last ton of years. ten months straight inflation going down. china meanwhile at a very high time we opening and seeing high youth unemployment. seeing lower gdp growth. secretary blinken is to take those strength and needs to speak from a position of strength. to indicate that the united states is not going anywhere, we're gonna be in the indo-pacific that we're going to be supporting a rules based international effort. and while we welcome dialogue with the ccp on issues like public health and climate change and that's deals for the emerging economies, we are not going to sacrifice our values or priorities. >> speaking of dialogue, nbc news exclusively learned that president biden wanted to speak with president xi after the balloon saga. his top national security advisers talked about it. yesterday biden suggested that the balloon was not sent on purpose. >> i think that one of the things that balloon paused was not so much that i got shot

down, but i don't think the leadership knew where it was or knew it wasn't it. or knew what was going on. which i think was more embarrassing than it was attention. so i'm hoping that over the next several months, i'll be meeting with xi again. and talking about legitimate differences that we have. but also how we can get along. >> do you believe she didn't know the balloon was in u.s. airspace? and what its capabilities were? is the president at all softening his tone on china? and would that be a bad thing or a good thing? >> i have not seen the same national security briefings that the president to guess. but his interpretation does accord with the fact that i have seen. i think it is more likely this was about incompetence rather than mile intent. and what we saw was our commander-in-chief choke decisive action and shot down this balloon allowed us to be able to recover some sensitive material from their technology.

whereas their commander-in-chief did not even know what's the left hand was doing. so, again, the united states isn't a stronger position relative to china that i think many folks inside the beltway are indicating in the public communications. of course we have to be worried about this adversary. it is going to be the generational competition for the next 20 years. at the same time, we should not be fighting into aping the ccp 's maneuvers. we should instead doubled down on our strengths. rule of law, a strong market oriented economy. our ability to uphold the post-world war ii rules based order. but still what we do bastions laid on a gauntlet for the ccp. >> given your position on the select committee on, china your perspective is greatly appreciated. thank you for sharing. congressman auchincloss. coming up, next who is going to win the fight over the timing of donald trump's chart trial. we'll hear from the usual delay

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[ dog barks ] you have reached your destination. one more? ♪ one more time ♪ turn right on to western avenu. id. light in the all-electric id.4. it's the little things, it's a vw. >> new today on how classified documents may be handled during donald trump's trial trial in miami. trump is charged 37 counts including withholding national defense information, even though during the search at mar-a-lago the fbi seized and

102 documents on top secret, secret and confidential. here is former cia espionage act's court, brian korda. >> they really something called the silence witness rule, which was developed where you have a crime that occurred with the classified information has not been exposed publicly. so the government tries to do in those cases is take the documents and show it to the jury only, and have testimony about that document in a generality going from paragraph by paragraph with the jury through the documents and explaining why it is national defense information. but not sure the document to the public. >> joining me now, rebecca roiphe, former assistant manhattan district attorney and -- at new york law. school and former federal prosecutor now political legal affairs columnist. welcome to you both. rebecca, cameras and electronics are not elected to courtrooms. now, we are hearing about the silent witness rule. do prosecutors risk the appearance of a murky trial, or do you think they're gonna rely more heavily on human witnesses?

>> there are i combinations those two things, they will use the human witnesses to make sure that the jury does not think there is something that they are hiding. proceeding in this particular way concerning the classified documents. >> okay. what about the new york times? reporting on what they are calling jack smith's iron fist in a kid glove approach. to this prosecution to avoid destructions. noting the lenient bond deal that impose none of the usual restrictions on defendants in this case. and cases of this nature, rather. it does seem a little of the trump could still hang out with his codefendants and other potential witnesses. how mamuju you interpret all this? >> i think jack smith is wisely focused like a laser and what really matters. which is moving forward with this case and getting a conviction. fighting about convictions as a side issue, this will distract

from that. i think he wants to appear as very responsible. i do think that the issues around the witness rule and cost of information in this case will be a challenge for him. because he's going to have to be focused on preserving national security secrets awhile nonetheless like you see just a moment ago, trying to appear as clear as possible. it will be a delicate balance. >> rebecca, washington post reports that they rejected opportunities to cut a deal in a void charges altogether. was there ever a real possibility of him to cut a deal in any avenues for cutting deals now? >> prosecutors are always open to defendants who are willing to accept responsibility. pleads guilty in some way. as you, say cut a. deal it seems increasingly unlikely given his public stance and the way in which he has conducted himself. with regard to this investigation. that he would have some kind of a sudden turn of the law some

to take that route. but never say never. >> jack smith has promised a speedy trial. here's what national security law expert and mark zaid said about that. here it is. >> i think the legal strategy of the trump team is going to be to delay, delay, delay. get this passed the 2024 election. there will be a lot of pretrial motions. particularly in the classified sphere. this is where judge cannon in taking little steps, can have a significant and lengthy impact. depending on how long that process takes, and as prime, entrance some of these cases are some of the decisions can be immediately appealed, up to the 11th circuit as well. >> you can hear a sense of what is realistic. is it the speediest possible trial versus a non speediest possible trial? how do you see it? >> this is not going to be a very speedy trial. i took -- quite a bit i think they're right on the money there and i think this was a more typical

case in federal court. the bank, robbery a drug deal, something long does. lines even in that circumstance getting a trial done within a year is not a guarantee. and in this case obviously next year, there is an election season coming up with primaries and a convention. and obviously a general election, realistically. that would not be easy even if this were about a normal subtract but this is national security. >> give me your sense of what the best possible scenario is. for a starting point in any point. realistically. >> realistically i don't see a trial until 2025. that is my guess. assuming the trump team is not eager to move forward in trials. assuming what they're going to do as bryan suggested, will be filing motions under the law that is applicable here, they'll get an immediate interlocking appeal. they'll not be able to wait to the end on those issues.

they'll stretch this out to 2025. not unusual. i have cases across this country that have not gone to trial. so i don't think that that is a surprise at all. and i think then this mile currently 2027. >> rebecca, that timeframe, what do you think? do you agree? >> i, mean i think it is possible to take that long when we have to remember it's also going to run up until in your case because the former president is also charged with crimes in new york. and that is expected to go to trial in march of 2024. and that creates another hurdle. i think that ronaldo is likely right that is going to take some time. with that say there are ways in which these kinds of appeals can be expedited if the courts want to do that i think it is possible it could happen earlier and will remain to be seen. >> interesting. rebecca and --

mary adi, appreciate your time on this fathers day. deconstructing senator tim scott. in a moment we'll hear former president barack obama dismantle scott's take on race and poverty in america. plus rob are saying america cannot afford a national therapy session. we will tell you for what, next. ou for what, next who knew the subway series could get even better? me, i knew. maybe you should host a commercial then. sure, okay. subway series just keeps getting better. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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and nikki haley's take on race relations. reactions from them in a moment, but first years with the former president said. >> i have not spent a lot of time studying tim scott. i think there is a long history of african american or other minority candidates within the republican party who will validate american and say everything is great. and that we can all make it. nikki haley i think has a smart approach. there may come a time when there is somebody in the republican party that is more serious about actually addressing some of the deep inequalities that still exists in our society. that tracks rice. and it is a consequence of a racial history. and if that happens, i think that would be fantastic. >> this, morning senator scott hit back. there it is. >> there is no higher complimentary tack by president

obama. whatever the democrats feel, they drag out the former president and have him make some negative comments about someone running. hoping that the numbers go. down here is what people need to know. the truth of my life just proves the lies of the radical left. >> this is just days after haley issued this twitter response. quote, president obama sets minorities backed by singling them out as victims instead of empowering them. my parents didn't raise me to think that would be a victim. they raised me to know that i was responsible for my success. let's bring in don calloway. democratic strategist and founder of the national voter protection action fund. they'll, percio against reuters and david jolly, former republican congressman from florida. both are msnbc analysts. they are my sunday family as. well happy father's day to you to dads. here it is good to see you and thank you for taking the time. don, i want to go first to you and get your reaction to what -- he said and then what are your thoughts on senator scott and

nikki haley's responses? >> i think the former president is correct. i just wish you talked a little bit more like this when he was the sitting president. we understand for all the political reasons why he couldn't. i'm happy to see that tone now even if it is when he is out of office. nikki haley is almost irrelevant. here i feel deeply insulted by her comments. but i think it is far more important to talk about the issue of tim scott here. tim scott as a friend of mine, full disclosure. and he and i agree on nothing politically. but i think he is deeply representative of a very serious and thoughtful and intentional conservative elements of african americans. mostly located in the deep south. south carolina and -- like tim scott. is it is a real sentiment, conservativism is a real thing in the african american community. for those who think he is anomalous for being conservative just did not spend that much time around black folks. what he is anomalous for as being a card carrying or publican. most consider black folks are smart enough to look around and

see who we have to line up with and who is on that side of the aisle. and that is something they choose not to do. tim scott has a personal history, when you think was politics or otherwise. but i do respect him even while i disagree with the notion that his life just proves the idea that race is not a factor in america and he would not be one of three every nuggets others there will be dozens more. it's a point to this race and representative of showing people there's a real thought and conservative elements in africa america. >> i so applaud the fact that you can have conversations with him. that you're on a person to the political spectrum and talking about respect. thank you for sharing that. as you, asked david, did tim scott and nikki haley do themselves any favor with their responses? >> now look, and a news for those two is good. outsiders in the race for the

presidency. brock obamas mentioned by name that gives you an opportunity stalking the founders shows. very important context here is don use the word anomaly. i think that is true. tim scott and nikki haley for the success they created for themselves. understands nationally, republicans perform typically in the mid to high single digits among black voters in the country. and when they candidates pops to say the mid teens, that is a big deal. so i think his comments are exactly right. if you look at how black america votes, they are firmly in the position that republicans right at large are out of step. i will give you the buzzwords here which republicans often. you talk about equality of opportunity. but then they stop there. almost a survival of the -- approach. what republicans misread are saw firsthand is when you talk about equality of opportunity, it is actually calling for policy changes.

anybody from any zip code should be able to change it. that is, true if federal policy makers make policies that allow anybody from any zip code to then be awarded on their own merits. the equality of opportunity maritimes really good. really good. but it falls short when it refuses to implement the policies needed to create that. >> here comes a tough one for you, susan. how much of all of this is with politics and minded how much of it is with genuine social consciousness in mind? is there an easy answer? >> politics. i think it is based on politics. i do think the former president was raising an issue that he believed in. and i think that nikki just kind of basically, play the political part. whereas tim scott, i'm so happy to hear gods words about conservatism within the african american community and how we outlined it. i think tim scott ceases on

truth. a bigger problem politically for tim scott, because he asked for a policy or two that differentiates himself from former president trump in that same interview. and he did not have one. >> okay,. guys we are gonna look now at a new washington post analysis. all start with, you don, on this. it looks at the collusion of trump's criminal indictment with the campaign. which could, quote, undermine confidence in the democratic principles in the institutions of government. experts say. earlier this, hour we heard tim scott call for the firing of merrick garland, chris. right this is a thing that when you republicans have struck in defense of donald trump. why should people be alarmed by this? >> people should be alarmed because donald trump does not have a great relationship with speaking the truth but the truth thing he ever say with if he goes out on fifth avenue and shoots somebody in the face, people would still be with him. that is what we see reflected in the a.g. idea that -- and two indictments are still

the republican front runner. everybody else who was in this is waiting for him to be eliminated from the process in some way. tim scott one down. . what continues to bother me in the question we're not getting at is it in the universe capable of commenting on conservatives who theoretically be prepared to take the reins of government, what is about ham that speaks to the soul of 50% plus one of republican primary electorate? as bad as we have, seen the behavior we've seen, the personal feelings and frankly not being such a good government administrator, what is a deep within the soul of that 50% plus one that continues to insist that he would be the guy? particularly in the face of the competency of other candidates? >> when you can answer for that you please let me know. because it is one that i want to know as well. susan, is there a point when this public agitation again some of the institutions of government backfires against republicans? if they're an, is what would that look like? >> i'm not in this election cycle into the. but i will see it happen.

i think overtime republicans taking this longer basically leading to their own demise. they're taking away everything with at least when i start off with her as a republican, that the party believed. in law and order. i just like to highlight one thing. when tim scott says they're gonna get rid of director wray is an example of politics, the person who appointed ray as director of the fbi was donald trump. >> i want to play this. it is a bit from bob barr earlier. take a listen. >> he's a very petty individual who always put his interest side of the country. his personal gratification up his ego. we had of the country cannot be a therapy session for a troubled man like this. >> did i say bob barr? i think i might have. i meant to bill barr. give me your sense of. that does he have it right? >> i think so.

i think we've witnessed that over six. years and understand the vanities of the. notre dame he's running for present for the opportunity to -- himself to escape the criminal liability now faces under federal charges and state charges. he will put himself first. look, we don't yet know the scenario that will develop for 70 months out. this could go a lot of directions. but probably the most likely scenario is the one that actually worries me the most. the trial calendar in the south florida case is everything that his presidential race. i do think it is likely that donald trump will do everything he can to push this trial at least past march. so he can secure the republican nomination. and then the issue for the nation in the number will be, will i convicted donald can be elevated to the presidency? or will a republican nominee promise to pardon him? it is a very dark question. it makes it hard for republicans to win. but it is a hard moment for the nation. >> thank you all so much. especially you two guys for spending part of father's day with us. appreciate you all. that's gonna do it for me this is from alex what. he's also