as always, we appreciate you spending time with us. one final thing. today on capitol hill a ceremony unveiled a new postage stamp for the united states that honors civil rights icon john lewis. you can recall lewis was a long-time fixture in american life speaking in the march on washington. beaten badly on bloody sunday when he led those marchers across the edmund pettis bridge and he went on to a dedicated career in congress including the sit-ins on gun violence and where he was seen as a rare politician as a moral force in his own right. obama once told him, i am here because of you. the stamp will be available at all u.s. post offices. thanks for spending time with us. "the reid out" with joy reid starts now. tonight on "the reid out" --

>> experience. >> are you really trying to diminish the significance of what happened here and the secret meeting that the president said -- son set up in trump tower to receive that incriminating information trying to diminish the significance of that? >> i'm not trying to diminish it at all. the more complete story is they met, it was a ruse and they didn't talk about mrs. clinton. >> you think it was insignificant that he met for the purpose of getting dirt on hillary clinton and the only disappointment expressed in the meeting was the dirt they got wasn't better. you don't think that's significant? >> i don't think this was a well-advised thing to do. >> john durham hogs four year investigation of maga fever dreams is grilled on capitol hill. his failure a bump in the road for republicans bent on weaponizing and politicizing the doj. the confessions of donald trump. now a federal as well as a state

criminal defendant, he continues to openly incriminate himself. seemingly oblivious to the fact that prosecutors can and will his words against him. speaking of defending the indefensible, justice samuel a let tee said the pricey airline seat given to him by the billionaire who later had business before the supreme court would have gone unused. the missing submersible which is rapidly running out of air. but we begin tonight with the brand-new episode of, law and order presidential edition. >> the criminal justice system, all defendants are innocent until proven guilty either by confession, plea bargain or trial by jury. this is one of those trials.

>> and, yes, in our system donald trump is innocent until proven guilty, and, indeed, he has a constitutional right to remain silent. but for some reason trump refuses to remain silent. instead, he literally keeps confessing to the crime of unlawfully retaining u.s. defense secrets and refusing to give them back and he's making the confessions on the stump, on national tv over and over and over and over and over again. he made his latest confession on monday to fox's brett bare. >> you asked for it. >> and we were talking. >> then they said -- they went to doj to subpoena you to get them -- >> which they've never done before. in all fairness -- >> why not hand them over then? >> because i have boxes. i want to go through the boxes and get all my stuff out. i was very busy as you've sort of seen. >> yeah. you then tell this aide to move to other locations after telling your lawyers to say you had fully complied with the subpoena

when you hadn't. >> but before i send boxes over i have to take all of my things out. these boxes were interspersed with all sorts of things, golf shirts, clothing, pants, shoes. there were many things. >> so what you're saying, man, is that you obstructed the fbi and the national archives because you're basically a hoarder and therefore you co mingled classified documents containing our national defense and nuclear secrets with your shoes, golf clubs, bunch of magazine clippings and stuff? what? look, we all know by now that trump supporters do not care that trump openly admitted to breaking the law. we get it. it's actually easier for them to believe that brett baier was colluing with the department of justice to trap poor mr. trump into telling the truth. for most of the folks living in the real world, however, monday night's admission was not some

in knock cue wous thing. in fact, most normal people who heard his comments recognized them as highly incriminating. this latest on air confessional also had the amazing effect of bringing conservative, moderate and liberal minds together to all agree that trump's legal strategy is horse poop. >> his answers on the matters of the law seem to me to be verge on incoherent. he seemed to believe the documents were his, that he had declassified them, evidence to the contrary and, therefore, he could do whatever he wanted with them, which i don't think is going to hold up in court. >> while trump was ignoring his miranda rights, his former attorney general and doj fixer, william barr, gave us a preview of the takedown of trump. in an opinion piece, a man who desperately wants to rewrite his

reputation from a goon for trump, trump is a deeply flawed, ircore ridgible man who frequently brings calamity on himself. his handling of these documents in bathrooms and ball rooms at mar-a-lago was lawless and exposed the country to intolerable risk. the government had no choice but to retrieve these. if trump engaged in the kind of brazen criminal conduct alleged, then applying the law in his case is not unfair to him. the inus j tis lies in not having applied it seven years ago, here we go, to hillary. you don't recchi phi that omission by giving future violators a free pass. okay, barr, first he forgot to add i'm still going to vote for him. we still remember how you lied about the muller report and how to go after trump's perceived

enemies. good talk. unlike most people, trump doesn't have the capacity to look at himself in the mirror and think, hey, it's me. like any good episode of law and order, cornered suspects often turn on each other. two sources telling rolling stone that several lawyers and confidantes have discussed their unconfirmed suspicion in order to reduce his own legal matter. one source told rolling stone some of trump's long time allies and close advisers have taken sardonically to using the rat emoji. meow. they were not willing to comment. surprise. joining me now are two former federal prosecutors, rinado mariati and glen

kirshner. notwithstanding barr's attempt to indict hillary clinton who was already cleared, donald trump did it, he said he did it, he wasn't going to give the documents back. >> yeah, i am loathe to agree with bill barr, but he's right. i'm going to say something i'm not sure everybody has ever said, sometimes the rules of evidence can be a beautiful thing because what donald trump is saying may be admissible in the court of public opinion. here's the rules of evidence, to faux news networks, he's posting on his third rate social media platform, anything that incriminates him is admissible evidence if the prosecutors try to introduce it at trial, but everything that he says that exonerates him, idea classified

them with my mind, the presidential records act lets me take everything, et cetera, et cetera, none of that is admissible by donald trump's attorneys. so the prosecutors can put in all the good incriminating stuff, but donald trump's attorneys can put none of his bs before the jury. the only way the jury will get to hear with donald trump declassifying is if donald trump takes the stand at trial and testifies, and we all know how that would end for donald trump. >> yeah. it would end like it did with e. jean carroll. when he takes the stand, he does the same thing. he incriminates himself. he has all id and no egot. this is donald trump. this is how many times he said i did it, i did it. if he did a book like o.j. did, his book wouldn't be called, if i did it, it would be i did it. >> i can't even believe the question. >> i can't imagine you ever

saying, bring me some of the boxes that we borrowed back from the white house, i'd like to look at them. >> i would have the right to do that. there's nothing wrong with it. >> when it comes to your documents, did you ever show those classified documents to anyone. >> not really. i would have the right to. >> i had every right to have these documents. >> i hadn't had a chance to go through all the boxes. it's a long, tedious job, it takes a long time. which i was prepared to do but i have a very busy life. >> rinado, donald trump does have attorneys now who have signed a form -- an attestation saying they will represent him. one has already gotten $3 million. check mark on that, good for him. will they even be able to legally go in and attempt to make the arguments you just heard in the court of law. wouldn't they risk debarment? to say that gobble degook in

front of a judge? >> it's not even a defense, that's the problem, joy. it's actually an admission of guilt so they're not going to say that. i agree with glen's analysis. somebody who has been a federal prosecutor and tried cases as a criminal defense attorney, it locks you into a story. usually the defense wants to see all the evidence and come up with the best story they can. now if donald trump did want to take the stand and give it a half hearted attempt, he couldn't do it. essentially instead of these $3 million lawyers coming up with the perfect story, you get some guy who has trouble stringing some words together coming unbe with a story on the fly however it occurs to him on tv news. >> glen, i think the conventional wisdom is despite the fact he keeps admitting he did a federal crime that you can get 240 years in prison for,

this indictment helps trump because he's running for president and it makes him more popular. they love it and they think he can get away with crimes and shoot someone on fifth avenue, et cetera. doesn't the fact that he's going to be campaigning all through next year, doesn't that actually compound his lawyer's challenge? he will get to talk every day. he will be talking more on fox. he will be talking on news max and oann. every time he makes a speech, right, can prosecutors say we're going to add that, and add that, and add that, and add that to our evidence? >> yeah. absolutely. the problem is, there is no unified defense that the defense attorneys are going to be able to present because no matter what theory they go with, believe me, prosecutors will find a statement by trump that contradicts that. what you're going to see, you will see a reasonable doubt defense.

they're going to just throw a whole bunch of stuff out there. they're going to look for the low hanging fruit in the jury box, maybe one or two people they believe they can dupe or deceive into finding reasonable doubt somewhere. the other thing i predict, joy, i think donald trump will be pushing his defense team to do this, is going to be attack, attack, attack the prosecutors, the fbi, the democrats. attack, attack, attack and distract from the fact that the evidence of guilt is overwhelming. i don't think they're going to succeed at the end of the day. i think the tough part was getting this indicted and once indicted, the case will try itself. >> let's do a turn. i've got to play this. he did more than just incriminate himself in his interview with bret baier. he actually dmuld question whether he was on the golf course. here he is a tenting to explain

the death penalty policy in a -- you have to hear it to believe it. >> i focused on nonviolent crime. as an example, a woman who you know very well was in jail. she had 24 years to serve. she served for 22 years. >> alice johnson. >> high quality. how many years -- she was on a telephone call and they were involved in selling marijuana, mostly marijuana and she got like 50 years in zblal she'd be killed under your plan. >> huh? >> as a drug dealer -- >> no. no. no -- oh, under that? if would depend on the severity. >> if she's technically a former drug dealer, she -- she had multi-million dollar cocaine rings. >> any drug dealer -- >> so even now -- >> she can't to it, okay? by the way, if that was there -- no, she wouldn't be killed. it would start as of now. so you wouldn't go to -- no, but

your policy. >> no, no, right. starting now, yeah. but she wouldn't have done it if it was death penalty. in other words, if it was death penalty, she wouldn't have been on that phone call, she wouldn't have been a dealer. >> high quality. wouldn't kill her. would we kill her? high quality. rinato -- >> they question whether biden has his whole lunch in his lunch pail. they say biden has mental acuity issues. do you understand what he said, rinado? >> not completely, but i have to say, joy, on one level it's funny but on another level it's not because there are a lot of people in this country who are in prison because we politicized the criminal justice system in this way. the way his view is of how we should handle the criminal justice system is death penalty to anyone who deals any kind of illegal drug? that's absurd. it's going to essentially make it where we have to spend all of

our gdp constructing prisons and we take people out of neighborhoods and be have people without parents. >> glen kirshner, one more for you. john eastman who architected donald trump's potential coup is facing disbarment. it was asked why he presented so many lies to keep trump in office. what do you make of this attempt to -- i mean, do you think he has any shot of holding on to his license in california? he tried this 20 years ago. he floated this theory that was not bright enough, not willing to try it. what do you think are his prospects for remaining a lawyer? >> he has zero shot at not being sanctioned and being disbarred. we can't forget there was a federal judge in california who found by a preponderance of the evidence, 51% more likely than not, that john eastman and donald trump committed two federal felonies together. frankly, for bar counsel's

purposes, that's all she wrote. i mean, there's no way john eastman is going to be able to sort of wiggle out of this. the we have all been waiting for a very long time for an indictment that would include john eastman because usually, joy, the federal judiciary, the judges don't get out in front of prosecutors and announce guys like john eastman committed federal felonies when someone is arrested and indicted. we will see what happens. thank you both for being here. up next on "the reid out," new revelations about the ethically challenged conservatives on the supreme court with more expensive stories of expensive trips. "the reid out" continues after this.

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as soon as tomorrow the supreme court's right wing majority could put an end to affirmative action. the precedent that allows colleges to consider a student's race in admissions. they have zero intention of giving up the affirmative action that benefits them, you know, the conservative supreme court justice affirmative action where they get the hookup with extravagant freebies like luxury gift and travel with right wing donors and don't give it to the

peons. a new investigation from propublica shows how justice samuel alito took an elaborate fishing vacation with paul singer. he rode to alaska with him. he never disclosed it. leonard leo did it and invited alito to come with. paul singer's cases about his hedge fund came before the court at least ten times and alito never recused himself including 2014 including a battle between singer's hedge fund and argentina. alito voted with the 7-1 majority in singer's favor which had a $2.4 billion payout. this only adds to a pattern of questionable dealings by the court's questionable dealings.

there's clarence thomas who propublica exposed. justice neil gorsuch sold property to the head of a law firm who had business before the court and didn't disclose the buyer's identity. when propublica reached out to alito, he declined. instead he sent it to "the wall street journal" which in a journalistically confounding move ran it as a rebuttal op ed the day before the propublica report was published. in it he claimed he wasn't aware paul singer was involved despite the cases heavily covered and saying they spoke on no more than a handful of cases and never talked about any issue before the court, comments which i suppose were meant to take him

at his word, right? alito defended his failure to have the standard prablg tis and justified accepting the ip be have i tags because the seat would otherwise have been vacant which are many airline passengers spotting an empty first class seat though no flight attendant would accept that argument. joining me now is senator cory booker from new jersey. senator, i want to read just a little bit of this report because alito claims in his prebut the tall that he never heard about these cases. this is about the fight between singer and argentina. played out on familiar turf. his personal involvement in the case attracted widespread media attention in 2007 for the first but not last time singer's fund asked the supreme court to

intervene, the court declined to take the case. july r8 singer took alito to alaska on the private jet. in 2014 the supreme court finally agreed to hear the case on the matter. and, boom, 7-1 ruling in favor of singer's side. this lack of ethics by these conservative justices at this point is almost comic call, senator. is there anything planned to be done about it? >> first of all, let me just say this prebut the tall that he put out there, i was actually stunned at the reengs. it's almost as if a culture is being built up where there is no perspective anymore in regards to the lavish gifts. the one thing i want to caution all of us is to a.m. low this to fall into a partisan lens. this is a crisis of the court period.

i'm as appalled by the reversal and rights about things like the majority of americans think roe v. wade should be the law of the land. i want to say this is a deeper fundamental assault on democracy when you see the highest court in the land having the lowest ethical bounds. in fact, every court in our land has ethical legislation or written ethical laws that bind it, but the highest court right now does not. it's a court that necessitates legitimacy and the trust and the faith of people and these stories coming out whether they are conservative justice or progressive justice, they all undermine this critical institution to our democracy. yes, there are things congress must do but when we had a hearing about this in the judiciary committee it fell on

the other side of the aisle. this is not about a conservative justice, this is about the american justice system. we are pushing legislation. we are going to mark it up in had the judiciary committee that's going to put together these ethics laws, do what every lawyer knows, appearances of impropriety and make sure the highest court in the land actually has high ethical standards. >> senator, isn't it an issue of the ideologuis on the court. both are ruling that women cannot and do not have the right to control their own bodies. i've never heard of kagan, sotomayor or jackson taking lavish trips on the dime of billionaires who them come up to

the court. they seem to have a very -- i want to give you the time line here. this is this gentleman, sing be ger, he asked the scotus to intervene. '08 he takes alito on the private jet. 09 they score eight more scotus editionsment oh, it's not so ritzy. a thousand a night bragged to his friends he got to were learn 1/3 of the places. in june '05 he through and they told pro publica.

the it's scalia, it's thomas and justice gets bridled when anyone does this. i cannot see this as a both sides issue. >> it is definitely not a both sides issue. that's not what i'm saying. the facts you just laid out are only the tip of the iceberg. what leonard leo is doing to try to capture the court influencing the process, the process donald trump submitted to is extraordinary and there are so many more facts that should call us all concern. the point that i am trying to make is that every branch of the american government should have ethics legislation. when we saw scanned dald in.

the key here is to remember, when you are fighting 9 battle, yes, call out the fact patterns like you are, but the cure is not something that's going one way or the other. the cure to this is our courts should have ethics. you should not be able to jump on the private jet with someone with matters before the court. that is wrong. it is an affront to the ideals of america. anyone to rush forward and try to justify that has lost perspective and does not understand the urgency of this moment. democratic institutions are being attacked. no matter who it is, there should be consequences for that. the consequences in this case is to fix our supreme court. it is losing its legitimacy at

the lowest level of approval in my lifetime, and this is an american crisis. so the solution to that is for this body, the article one branch of government, congress, to do what our founders wanted us to do. no branch. >> the supreme court needs to be checked. >> we should be impoing upon them rules so that future billionaires do not think there's a way to have accountable ethics rules that will make sure should they step over the line, like the lives we have. >> i think we can agree here. >> thank you very much. >> one thing i have to say

before we go. >> sure. >> your instagram feed is phenomenal and i hope more people follow you. i want to thank you. some of your posts give me affirmation, they give me joy and i'll always, as you do on this show, give me good information. >> i will take that endorsement on my ig feed. i follow you as well. i'm @joyreid if you do not follow me. house republicans revenge and retribution tour. and a full scale freakout over hunter biden. we'll be right back. my a1c, cv , and lost some weight. ozempic® provides powerful a1c reduction. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it.

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republicans are seriously arguing that the charges are good enough. they're comparing this to donald trump's 37 count indictment for documents strung out through his house. two-tier justice system while his supervisor marjorie taylor green call it pathetic. what they forget is the

prosecutor is a trump appointed i.v. we are making properties as donald trump is blatantly saying, if elected president again, he will have the doj go after the biden family. "new york times" reports after mr. trump's vow to direct the justice department to appoint a real prosecutor to investigate the bidens, "the new york times" asked each of his republican rivals questions about laying out what limits, if any, they believed presidents must or should respect when it comes to white house interference. do you believe presidents should get involved in investigations and prosecutions of individuals? joining me now is tara setmayer,

a former republican party communications director. tara, only asa hutchinson and chris christie would say, no. we shouldn't make the doj into the president's poodle. how are they going to handle that if it's a democrat? >> the hypocrisy is hard to take. all those years during my running the republican party, law and order and respect for the constitution, law and order, independence from the justice department from the white house were things that were unwavering in the party. to watch them bend over backwards and destroy them is infuri infuriating. the consequences mean it's desensitiing people. if you don't have that, you have anarchy. you have chaos and then you have author ri tarchism.

this whole two tier focus group, it's everywhere from elise stefanik to fox news to the twitter trolls. two-tiered system of justice. what a bunch of b.s. they know there is a two-tiered system of justice and it has nothing to do with donald trump. that's why they want to ban books. it stems back decades and decades and did they ever hear of the civil rights era? that's what a lot of that was fought for. they need to stop this. they are projecting what they're doing. it's nonsense. >> a lot of it is weird anger because on their side there are people who commit crimes, the other side, you have to

prosecute them whether they committed equivalent crimes. hunter biden is the favorite. if he was named joe schlobotnik, he probably wouldn't have been prosecuted. they did a plea deal. that's what they do. had he not been a biden, they wouldn't have prosecuted him. what do you make of their obsession with this guy? he's sort of a sad story, but give me a break. he didn't take classified documents. >> that's true. it's because they don't have anything else. they are looking at the titular head who has been criming his entire life. now that level of criming is actually at like national security, international level, espionage act, real indictment type crimes and they don't want

you to pay attention to that. pay no attention to the man crying behind our curtain. let's go after joe biden's tragic son who's had troubles their whole life. many people have had problems with struggling with drugs and haven't gotten it together. let's go after him on things that may or may not have been consequential if he wasn't the son of a president. it's pathetic really. they have a very strong messaging machine that's unified that they've created this mythology around hunter biden. that's what they're holding on to. they don't want people to concentrate on what donald trump is doing. the fact that they're running around trying to protect donald trump. january 6th insurrectionists are patriots and they should pardon them. we're in the upside down world. it's all a bait and switch to

project and deflect from what donald trump is doing and acknowledging the fact not only is he a criminal, he's a national security risk. >> it's odd. they love the fact that donald trump doesn't pay taxes but then when hunter biden doesn't pay taxes and actually gets dinged for it, that's letting him off easy. jared and ivanka took $2 billion from the saudis, we don't know for what. they're like, that's fine. but it's hunt ter. there is this magical around russia. what is this magical thinking about? 30 seconds. >> there are no normy republicans fortunately. >> fair. >> the ones you thought were aren't. it's all magas. it's because it's the party tribal mentality. this is what every week they have decided the messaging was going to be because they don't have an agenda, they don't have a policy agenda to run on that

is consistent and they have to deal with donald trump. so this is what they're trying to do thinking the american people are stupid, but they're not. we call them out every day and we need to keep doing that. i hope democrats do and not sit back and just think people are going to figure it out. they need to message, message, message and be consistent and come back. >> coming from a coms director, tara setmayer. much appreciated. >> indeed. frantic search for the passengers and crew on the missing submersible.

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now to the story just about everyone is currently obsessed with, the search continues tonight deep, deep in the atlantic ocean for the submersible that disappeared four days ago. that wreck is 12,500 feet down. more than 10,000 feet lower than the average submarine goes. the vessel has 12 hours of oxygen left. i should note that around the world people get on sea vessels for many reasons, like desperation like the more than 500 migrants from pakistan and palestine who presumably drowned after their ship expedition, $2a pop, was purely for fun. just a reminder of the vast difference between the way the very rich live and the risk they take versus the rest of the world. and we're learning more and more about how far the wealthy

owner of the company offering this high-risk adventure reportedly went, for so many of the super rich seek to do to avoid regulations. the new york times reports that the company, oceangate, was warned of catastrophic problems with its titanic mission. including the fact the company chose to forgo a traditional safety assessment. joining me now is kristen romy, senior editor at national geographic. welcome kristen, thank you for being here. i do not understand how you can have a business that is so -- in such a deregulated environment, where they were able to forego a certification by a safety agency, given that this is such a risky idea. >> well, joy, there is no dmv for submersible's and submarines. it is a wild west in a way. but for the most part, the industry -- very closely to standards that are provided by organizations in the u.s. or europe.

we do know that these organizations reached out to ocean gates and asked that they could be a part of the certification process. and that oceangate co kind of pushed back and said regulations are going to restrict innovation. it is sort of an application of that move fast and break things tech ethos that is being applied to extreme exploration. >> you know, elon musk got all mad when he was associated with it. but it uses starlink, so it does seem like a tech collab. this tin can at that goes so far down that even yells and wales can't go there. this kind of ethic of doing super high adventure projects that mimic what the government might do, but without the safety regulations seems to me to be very risky, but people are still willing to pay big money for it and risk their lives. it's wild. >> yeah, absolutely. ten years ago, 20 years ago, this kind of technology was

only available to governments. and nowadays, you can build a remote operated vehicle in your garage from a kits on the internet. so, technology has lowered the bar to access on these kinds of extreme adventures in so many ways. and it's kind of up to the people who decide to take these rides whether or not they want to take these risks. >> are there sort of a concurrent technologies that even exist to go and get the tin can, if it can't come up by itself? it's piloted by a little joystick, like, is there also technology that can go and get it? >> yes, there is. and the big question right now, and this is the exclusive that we broke with national geographic, is that there are two members of the explorers club on board. they explores club doesn't mess around. these are astronauts, polar explorers, underwater explorers, and they've been making the case repeatedly that any sort of recovery techniques that we usually use in the very deep sea, like the navy sending out a ship that has technology to

-- materials from the extreme deep, the f-35 that was recovered from similar deaths in the south china sea a couple months ago. the question is, though, is whether this technology can safely recover a carbon fiber hole. we are looking at, usually it's steel submersible's, or its aluminum aircraft. this is a very fragile boat, and the concern that has been brought up in correctly is that if there are people life able damage and kill people in the process. >> that's being used for people who are extreme run -- extreme adventurous, but are we using the same efforts to get those folks that crushed off the coast of greece? i hope we're using the same effort. i'm just gonna hope that we use the same kind of efforts to rescue folks like that as well. we hope that everyone in both situations are safe. kristen roby, thank you. we'll be right back. l be right back. ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement.

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(chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? one year after the supreme what, we have a ton of mulch. court eliminated the constitutional right to abortion, the woman's health

crisis in america has never felt so urgent. last, night i sat down with vice president kamala harris, along with stakeholders in the abortion rights fight. for a really compelling conversation, here's part of. it >> my best friends in high school, i learned that she was being molested by her stepfather. and, i immediately said, you have to come with us. and she did. she came to live with us, and that was one of the reasons that i wanted to become a prosecutor. to protect people who have been the subject of such abuse. and the idea that the highest court in the land just did that and rolls back rights that had been recognized, was incredibly shocking. >> a deep portion that should be voting is not voting, and they are making it harder and harder passing a different laws

in each state to make it harder for certain people to vote. which are the people that are being affected by this the most. >> i couldn't leave the state, and if i had, i probably would have died. so, i had to just wait until i did become in your death. >> my knee jerk response in my mind was, if you want to keep medicine out of politics, then you keep politics out of medicine. >> freedom. freedom and the ability of an individual to make decisions about their own life and literally their own body, and i think there's a piece of this underlying it all is hey, trust women. >> and that is tonight's read out. all in with chris hayes starts now. out. altonight, on all in. >> we should state the obvious. there's something rotten going on in the supreme court of the united states of america. >> another supreme court

justice caught acc