let us use the power of yoga, not only to be healthy, happy, but also to be kind to ourselves and to each other. >> the world for just a few minutes, was celebrating together. from times square in new york city to a temple in tokyo. to a beach in south africa and a bus in mumbai. and then right back to the front lawn of the united nations. and if i can do it? yoga really is universal. and it is a great reminder to be kinder to ourselves and one another. and on that note, i wish you all a very good night, namaste. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news. thanks for staying up late, i will see you at the end of tomorrow! tomorrow

>> we have got ten hours, ten hours is about how much breathable air time the u.s. coast guard estimates is live for the five men aboard the missing submersible which is named the titan, to begin its a descent to the wreckage of the titanic on sunday morning. the clock is tipping rapidly, as the coast guard has an incredibly complex search and rescue operation too find them in an area that is twice the size of connecticut in two and a half miles below sea level. multiple countries and government agencies are involved in the canadian effort, a bohemian research vessel, a french research vessel. a u.s. navy, and the air national guard. remote operated vessels are also being deployed in the search, and more ships are expected to be arriving in the next 24 hours. that is where things stand right now. as you can see the moving on is tracking map, as many as 11 ships were spotted today heading towards the location of the titanic wreckage in a remote part of the north atlantic ocean.

after new canadian surveillance plane detective noises underwater for a second straight day. the noises sparked optimism, but the submersible's passengers could be found alive. when search and rescue expert told the ap, that if those noises are coming from the titan, it sends a message that you are probably using military techniques to find me, and this is how i am saying it. the coast guard says it is unclear whether the sounds are from the missing craft. >> our operations relocated in an attempt to explore the origin of the noises. although the are of the searches have yielded negative results, they continue. >> it was supposed to be a two -hour dissent on sunday to see the wreckage of the titanic. it has now turned into a four -day ordeal for the men trapped inside a very cramped 21 foot vessel. the titan was one hour in 40 minutes into the dive when it

lost contact with this warship on the surface. however, this is not the first time to something like this has happened for the ocean gate, which is the company that owns the tighten, and how it's several different diving explorations. a former passenger who has completed four dives with the company tells abc news that his submersible lost contact with his host ship on all four of his dives, including on a trip to the titanic. for years, there were multiple warnings that things could go wrong. the new york times reports that this far back as 2018, oceangate's director of marine operations wrote a report saying that this titan needed more testing to be industry standards. he warned of, quote, the potential dangers to passengers of the titan as the submersible reached extreme deaths, and quote. two months later, more than three dozen industry leaders,

deep sea explorers, and oceanographers issued a similar warning. they told the ceo, stockton rush, in a letter that the companies, quote, experimental approach and decision to operate the titan without third-party testing could lead to a catastrophic outcome in its titanic mission. but that quote, experimental approach, and, quote that the experts warned, about was laid out clearly in a waiver that people signed before boarding the titan. according to a cbs reported that took a return on the vessel last year, the waiver described the titan as, quote, an experimental submersible vessel it's not been approved or certified by any regulatory body, which could result in physical injury, emotional trauma, or death, and quote. even stockton rush, the ceo of the company who is currently on board the titan as its pilot, expressed concerns about the possibility of diving to the titanic wreckage and not making it back to the surface. in an interview last year. he later said, quote, at some point you're going to take some, risk and it really is a risk reward situation. i think that i can do this just as safely by breaking the rules.

and quote. for those that are comfortable with taking on that level of risk, it might be worth it to send into the depths of the ocean to experience something that few people have ever had the chance to see up close, and few people may ever have the chance. one of those people's erin newman, a passenger aboard the titan in 2021. he shot these photos and videos on a visit to see what remains of the titanic nearly 13,000 feet below sea level. joining us now is aaron newman, the man who took the videos in 2021 while aboard the now missing oceangate submersible, the titan. aaron, is an investor in ocean gate. mr. newman, thank you for taking the time to talk with us this evening. i have to ask you, how are you feeling right now? this has to be tough knowing that you are on that, and that there are people that are on

the titan right now. would've been going through? >> certainly three of those people that are on there are people that i knew and we're friends with. it is certainly a challenging time to think about what they could be going through, or have gone through. at the end of the day, while there is a lot that you said, that is, you know, perhaps taken out of context. when i went through it, it was a very safe, the safety was priority number one. there was a lot of effort going into the engineering and training us to make sure that it's as safe as possible. these types of adventures are pushing the limits of where humanity goes. there is risk involved, but i don't know whether i believe the context you put all of that safety questions in place. >> talk to me about that. i think that i used the terms of risk, preparation, risk reward. what is the issue that you have

with it? >> for instance, putting out there about the lawsuit. that was actually pertaining to an entirely -- that was a prototype of this ship, not the current ship. it's probably not genuine to say that's anything to do with the current tighten submersible. >> do you take the view that this is a risk and reward question as the ceo who's piloting that ship, saying that you know it's possibly more risky than walking down the street or getting on an airplane, but that's a decision that they make. >> and these are people. for instance, the people that are on this craft, people like hamish are people that have -- they live on the edge. hamish has been to space, he's been to the bottom of the

ocean. for him, this was probably not have his more daring adventures. these are -- these are people that have all been in every scenario, very calm, the kind of people you would want, and would be able to handle any kind of scenario that you threw at them. that is perhaps why we are optimistic and happy to be hearing something banging down there, whether it is something else or it's them. this is a type of thing where a really experience set of people like ph stockton, hayman, stockton, these people would be pulling together and doing this kind of thing to keep a search going and give as much evidence includes as possible. >> risk and mitigation of risk are just two important things for explores. what is the mitigation of rusted takes place in a case like this? if this submersible has lost contact with the surface, but i

don't know if that's a serious thing or not. maybe there's a letter that indicates that that happened in the past. what is the risk mitigation that would normally occur? what with the company be saying, hey, if we lose contact with everything, what's supposed to happen? >> i mean, typically, if you lost contact, you would come back. sometimes you lose contact for a couple of hours, or a half hour because of, for instance, you're going through a thermal climb. this is technology that is very -- it is not, you know, perfect technology. you might go through an area -- the same way when i dove down to the marianas trench, there were times through the trip where you lose communication. and that's just why or gps doesn't work down there the same way. communication can go in and out if it goes out for a long, extended period of time, there are protocols that you do need

to follow, and such. i don't believe that they would just shut down communications and go on. >> you're saying that the loss of communication, even though it's reported, and i just to be clear, was not talking about a, lawsuit talking about the criticism coming from industry experts to say that it is not ready for primetime. this is a conversation that we have about rocket ships all the time. rocket ships that carry passengers. there are people who go on to these things like you that are prepared to say may not be ready for everybody just, yeah but it is ready for some people who deemed themselves explorers or early adopters. can we talk about the, space and what's going on. when you are down, there did those things go through your mind? or did you sign the waiver saying there is risk to everything. did you worry about what would

happen if you lost contacts, and what is that space like? >> for instance, let me give you an example, perhaps the most important system from a safety perspective on this craft, the weight system. the idea is that when you go down, you're negatively buoyant, you're dropping when you get to the bottom, you adjust yourself. when you're ready to go back, up you drop these lightweights at the bottom of the craft. you gain positive point, see you come back to the surface. that system right there is the key to safety. right? it is designed with three different mechanisms to make sure that you have fail-safes. you rock the boat, iraq to craft, or you have a hydraulic lever that was independent of

the electrical system. finally, you have the necklace that dissolves after 24 hours. those are this assigned types of redundancies built into, as you said, mitigate risk. it is designed to come back to the top, as long as something catastrophic doesn't happen but we don't know what's going on. that's the problem. this is all out of speculation and second guessing. armchair quarterbacking when really the focus right now is, how do we get these -- how do we locate -- whoever we can right now and, if there is any possible chance to make it happen. >> what resources are they're on board? let's assume the best, and that they're down there, and they are going to be found sometime soon. what if they got? >> in the submarine itself, or on the ship? >> the submarine itself. >> they don't -- i mean, oxygen is the important stuff. obviously, after four days, water becomes problematic. food is probably not going to be particularly problematic. i could go up a couple days without food standing on my head. you know, they take down lunch,

they take down water with them. so, obviously this is a crew that is gonna be very intelligent and know they are going to conserve their resources and make them last. they knew well they had four days of oxygen, although you don't know what that really means, right? these are estimates. and just guidelines, right, you're going to have co2 buildup along the way. and who knows how that will affect different people at different points. so, they have provisions, so, for them they will be cool down there as well. the temperature down outside at the bottom would be 28, 29 degrees fahrenheit. and they have layers, but they definitely are going to be in the dark and they're going to be layered up. and will probably be huddled together to try and maintain warmth. but this is a crew that would be smart enough to know how to do that kind of thing. you look at ph, he's been submarines for 60 years. so, no one else has the level experience this guy does. and there is a way they can manage this as a team, they can do it. >> let's keep our hopes alive for them. thanks for being with us erin, thank you for taking the time to talk to us. i want to talk to brian clark he's a senior fellow -- -- defense -- and hudson institute. he's also former navy submariner, and an expert in navy operations. mr. clark, thank you for being with us, i appreciate your time. could you tell us a bit about what this type of surge looks like whether they can determine sort of where the last known location was of this submersible.

is that likely where we start the search? >> absolutely, ali, we start with the last place they knew these summary in was, and because it looks like they maintain communications with the ship, they tracked the location of the submersible as well guide it towards the wreckage. so, you start there, and begin to search out. in this case, they be using paths of sonar to try and identify sounds coming from the submersible. as we know, there have been some sound that might be coming from it. and then you would use multiple sized sensors that you put in the water, sonic buoys, that drop sonar systems into the water, to geo locate it. so, you have multiple lines of -- and you identify the specific location rethink the sounds coming from. and then you focus your search on that area which is evidently what they've done. and then you begin to search that area with active sonar which is what the remotely operated vehicles are doing now. >> the sounds, there was a moment today when we thought they identified sounds, they seem to be at regular intervals that suggested they would not be random or even animals. named the navy and the coast guard sort of pull that back a bit to say we don't really know

that these are sounds coming from -- what you make of that? the idea that those are ships -- for those of us who don't understand this, the idea that an airplane can determine sounds from two and a half miles undersea, and then try to determine what the sounds are. what do you make of the news we have? >> when you listen to sooner information coming in, it sometimes gets digitize, difficult to interpret exactly what exactly the source is. but usually can determine whether it's mechanical organic. so, you can tell it's probably shrimp or fish. or you can tell it something mechanical, some metal noise. and then it's hard to go beyond that, to really determine if this is man-made or if this is just some wreckage that's been disturbed under the water. and that's probably why they're being careful about describing the sound in more detail and they have already.

but it definitely suggests that there is something mechanical coming from something man-made. it may not be a person doing it but it certainly can be an object doing it. >> what happens when they locate this thing? because it's deeper in theory, we don't know where it is, but it's deeper than we can send divers. so, what do you do? how do you help people who might be in that vessel? >> so, once you've located it, you use the r of ease that we have out there with active sooners to locate where it is. those rovs would tell the operator back on the surface exactly where they are, and then they would be able to begin a salvage or rescue operation using a crane type apparatus. the navy has one of these, they

have flown it to canada, it's getting ready to be loaded onto a ship and moved on to the potential crash site. so, they can use that crane to pull the vehicle up out of the water, the same way we would pull an f-18 fighter that falls into the ocean and drops to the bottom. so, you can definitely pull it out with this crane, but you have to locate it pretty precisely first. >> one of the things we are talking about is the amount of oxygen that is in that vessel. how are those estimates made? and how do we understand -- because there's a range, obviously, of how long they can survive underwater. >> yeah, so we have some standard factors that used based on people, how much oxygen the use, and more importantly, how much carbon dioxide they generate, because that's usually the problem, you tend to suffocate due to carbon dioxide poisoning rather than just running out of oxygen. so, you do those numbers, and with five people in the craft and the amount of space that is their, and they do hasn't supplemental oxygen. if you add all that up, you can come up with an estimate of how

long you think it would normally be. now, as they're careful, as we just heard, these are very experienced operators. they could be taking some action to try to maximize the duration of their oxygen will last, or minimize their use of oxygen and even try to absorb some of the carbon dioxide being produced. so they could be getting creative and try to maximize the amount of time they can operate, beyond that four-day window. >> brian, thank you for helping us understand the severity, appreciate that. brian clark, thank you for your time and expertise. now, we should know well this race against the clock to save five people trapped thousand feet below water has been dominating news coverage for a couple of days. there is another story about another vessel lost at sea last week. hundreds of migrants from countries like syria, pakistan, afghanistan, we're on a fishing boat that sank last week while on route from libya to italy. about 100 people were rescued, and more than 300 drowned. now, that's a clear difference between the news coverage and

rescue resources coming to that fishing boat versus the submersible in the north atlantic. there are a lot of people at sea at any given time, whether for adventure or survive on self preservation. at any moment, some of them, wherever they're stationed in life or their intention when they set out could need the world's urgent attention. and in moments like this, as we can and should do, we should be doing all we can to save those that are on the titan. but it is also during moments like this where we should ask ourselves how we as a society marshal and deploy our resources and our attention to all who may need them when the time comes. we have a lot more to get to tonight, including a reporter that raises -- a report that raises new ethics questions about a supreme court justices ties to billionaire. this time, it's not about justice clarence thomas. plus, why democrats in the house erupted in shouts of shame earlier tonight. here's a hint, it's about what republicans did to congressman adam schiff, who will join us live, next. ♪ ♪ ♪ durable. and dependable. our goal is a cleaner, healthier planet for generations to come.

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indict that you are prohibited to indicting by attorney general garland? >> no. >> so, if you wanted to, you could've indicted hillary clinton, but you never asked, is that right? >> if i had the evidence, yeah, could have, sure. >> you only brought two cases of the trial, correct? >> correct. >> and you lost all the cases you brought a trial, correct? >> correct. >> trump's former campaign manager paul manafort was convicted, correct? >> trump's foreign paul -- george papadopoulos was convicted, correct? >> cracked. >> trump's national security adviser michael flynn was was convicted, correct? >> correct. >> trump's longtime adviser roger stone was convicted, correct? >> correct. >> that special counsel john durham testifying on hill today. john durham was the man who republicans that hope would expose some kind of nefarious plot within the justice

department to attack donald trump. republicans that hope that durham would prove the robert mueller investigation into russian interference in the 2016 election was, in their words, a big hoax. but john durham did not do any of those things. and after a four-year-long investigation into failed prosecutions, john durham's final report amounted to a little more than a few process criticisms about the fbi's investigation, and one guilty plea with no jail time. today's hearing this was be a victory lap to republicans, but instead it ended up being an opportunity for democrats to highlight the findings of the very investigation that john durham was supposed to discredit. here's congressman adam schiff in one of those exchanges. >> the russians released stolen emails through cutouts, did they not? >> there were emails -- >> it's a very simple question. did they release information, stolen information, to the penthouse? >> i'm not sure -- >> you really don't know the answer to that?

the answer is yes. the d. c. leaks -- >> from your language, yes. >> well, mueller's answer is yes. more important than mine, mueller's answer is yes. that information, of course, was helpful to the trump campaign, wasn't it? >> i don't think there's any question that the russians intruded into -- >> i just want to -- >> hacked into the system, released information. >> that was helpful to the trump campaign, right? >> and that conclusion in the i. c. e. and mueller investigation was that the russians intended to assist -- >> can you answer my question, mr., and was that helpful to the trump campaign? >> yes. >> and trump made use of that, as i said, by touting those stolen documents on the campaign trail over 100 times? >> i don't -- i said i don't really read the newspapers or listen to the news, so i don't know that. >> were you totally oblivious to donald trump's use of the stolen emails on the campaign trail, more than 100 times? >> i was not aware that. >> that escape your attention? >> i was not aware of that. >> it's moments like that that image congressman adam schiff a target of retribution by republicans in the house of representatives. early or this year, the republicans voted along party lines to strip congressman

schiff from his position on the house intelligence committee. but apparently, that was not enough, because today, house republicans once again use their control of that chamber to hold another vote on rebuking adam schiff. earlier this evening, house republicans voted along party lines to censure congressman schiff, which is a move typically reserved for members who have committed since u.s. ethical violation. democrats chanted shame as speaker mccarthy officially gaveled in the vote. [crowd chanting] >> shame, shame, shame! >> he is congressman schiff on the house floor moments before that vote took place. >> today, i wear this partisan vote as a badge of honor, knowing that i have lived my oath, knowing that i have done my duty to hold a dangerous an out-of-control president accountable. >> joining us now is the congressman adam schiff, he's

democrat of california. congressman, good to see you, thank you for being with us tonight on your first night as a censured representative, member of congress. what do you think this vote censuring you got them? >> well, it got them the continuing gratitude for at least another day of donald trump. this is what this is about showing their subservience to him, doing their bidding. and more than that, for some of them, one out of the ten republicans last week voted against a resolution of censure. this week, they voted for it, because trump said if they didn't, he would make sure they had primary challenges. so, this is the continuing devotion to this most unethical of former presidents. this is what this is about. it's also, frankly, a badge of honor because they're going after me because they think i'm affective. at the end of the day, if they don't think you're effective, they leave you alone. but they want to try to make examples out of people who stand up to their lack of ethics, who stand up to their corrupt leader. they think they've done a good job, maybe too good a job, that so, they're going after me,

again. >> was it something specific? because there are a whole lot of your colleagues who have done similar things. what was specifically about you, and i guess my question is, what stopped them from doing this to other members? >> nothing stops them from doing it to other members. in terms of why it was particular to me, i lead the investigation of donald trump's misconduct vis-à-vis russia, his misconduct vis-à-vis ukraine, i lead my first impeachment trial to the first bipartisan vote to convict a u. s. president in history. and then i served on the january six committee and that put me at the top of trump's enemy list. so, this is them doing their bidding, going after someone -- and it's been affective. but it's also their effort to try and sound and intimidate others. it's not going to work on me, but it may chill others from being willing to be out front and defending our democracy. and in that respect, it's really dangerous to the institution. >> i want to play a little of what former house speaker nancy pelosi said about this today. >> today we're on the floor of the house with the other side has turned this chamber, where slavery was abolished, medicare and social security and everything were instituted, they turn it into a puppet show, a puppet show.

and you know what? the puppeteer, donald front, is shining a light on the streets. you look miserable. >> what's your sense, congressman, about what happens next? because there have been republicans who were censured in the last congress. is this their way of sort of evening the playing field and diminishing the effect of those centers? >> well, i think it's their way of saying if you use a process for a good and legitimate reason, we will use it for an illegitimate reason. that is who they are. mccarthy has no control over the house. he looked more like he was being censured today than i did. and you know, he was turned over, the house of representatives, to the crazies. you know, the speakers today, on their side of the aisle, where marjorie taylor greene and boebert and luna. basically, the extreme of the extreme maga fringe. that's who's running the house. they have an impeachment resolution against joe biden next. there is a centuries aleutian introduced against benny

thompson. they are determined to just drag that house chamber down. and it's a terrible disservice, as the speakers pointing out, to the american people, because we have serious challenges to address, including homelessness and opioid epidemic and a student -- debt. and of course, they do nothing about these things. what they are doing this two weeks of the house time is to go after donald trump and these. >> all right, it's been good to see you again tonight, thanks for joining us, congressman adam schiff. all right, when we come back, what is fishy about this photo? according to some explosive new investigative reporting, an awful lot. we'll explain, next. >> there is a centuries aleutian introduced against benny thompson. they are determined to just drag that house chamber down. and it's a terrible disservice,

as the speakers pointing out, to the american people, because we have serious challenges to address, including homelessness and opioid epidemic and a student -- debt. and of course, they do nothing about these things. what they are doing this two weeks of the house time is to go after donald trump and these. >> all right, it's been good to see you again tonight, thanks for joining us, congressman adam schiff. all right, when we come back, what is fishy about this photo? according to some explosive new investigative reporting, an awful lot. we'll explain, next.

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everyday needs. kenny: what we do allows them to be the best version of themselves. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education. >> you just know a story is going to be good when a supreme court justice refuses to comment, and races to get ahead of the story with their own defense before the news breaks, before the public has even seen the allegations. that is definitely the case here, where supreme court a justice samuel alito race to publish this op-ed in the wall street journal entitled propublica mislead's its readers. the story that got justice alito playing defense is this one, it's an incredible piece of investigative journalism showing that justice alito was treated to a major taste of the sweet life by conservative billionaire, who later had business before the court at least ten times.

justice alito did not recuse himself from any of those cases. okay, see the guy in the red, the middle the picture holding the gigantic fish, that is just a samuel alito. the guy on the right in green, that is the conservative billionaire paul singer. and 2008, mr. singer flew justice alito to alaska on a private jet for a multi day private fishing trip. now, if justice alito had chartered the plane himself, the cost would've exceeded $100,000. 01 way. alito never -- i never recused in the cases singer was involved in before the court. justice alito's defense, again, he published in the wall street journal in an op-ed rather than simply replying to propublica's request for comment, his defense was twofold. number one he said the seat he occupied on the private jet would've gone unoccupied if he didn't take it. now, alito's excuse here is hilarious for a lot of reasons. number one is that you could kind of use that excuse for anything, right? i mean, this luxury hotel room would've been vacant, i'm just using a billionaires extra apartment while it sat empty. the argument is weak tea. but i want to look at justice alito's second argument, at billionaire paul singer's

response, because the second defense sounds really reasonable at first blush. at second blush, if there's such a thing, it does not hold up to scrutiny. first, let's start with singers response. singer says he did not organize the trip, and he did not discuss it his business interests will on the trip, which is possible. but pivotally, singer also argued that at the time of the trip, neither singer nor his company's had business before the court or could have anticipated that they would have business before the court in the future. propublica very clearly debunks that last bit. it turns out that the year before the fishing trip, in 2007 there is a very specific case in which one of mr. singers companies had asked the supreme court to intervene. and after the trip, that company and the opposing party kept asking again and again. okay, now, this gets us to alito second argument, when that case i was just talking about eventually did make it to this room court in 2014, alito claims he was, quote, not aware, and had no good reason to be

aware that mr. singer had a interest, and quote, in the case. now, this one is a little hard to believe once you look at the case in question. take a look at this. this is the libertad. it is the prize ship of the argentina navy. in 2012 it made international headlines because of impounded, effectively held hostage by the government of ghana on behalf of a hedge fund. paul singers hedge fund. it was an international incident. at one, point guns are drawn, the whole thing had been resolved by the u. n.'s international tribunal for the law of the sea. and paul singer was not someone honest figure in all of this. >> that is the showdown between paul singer, the man who runs elliott associates, and while, argentina. >> argentina described paul singer as a vulture capitalist. argentina defaulted on its debt in 2001, and singers hedge fund reportedly bought up argentinian valence for pennies on the dollar like a fire sale. in fact, singers fund purchase the majority of their argentine

bonds from june through november of 2008 for about 20 cents on the dollar. a year after the supreme court denied their first appeal request, and while singer was sufficient with alito, that trip was july 2008. and then they acted basically like a junk debt buyer would in a small claims court, but on an international scale, demanding full payment. and singer was very public about this, pulling stunts like the one with the navy ship, and at one point, even try to seize the argentines presidents plane, like, their version of air force one. that was an incredibly public decades-long fight that brought singers hedge fund before the supreme court. the court ruled in singer's favor 7 to 1, with alito in tow. and singers firm ended up walking away with a reported 2. 4 billion dollars, 2. 4 billion dollars, a return on what was reportedly a 117 million dollar investment. oh, we're not done by the way, the month after the supreme court ruling, because of this hedge fund owned by --

the hedge fund owned debt situation, the entire country of argentina defaulted on its debt a second time. and news outlets across the country framed the whole thing as argentina versus paul singer. so, sure, maybe it's possible that justice alito did not know paul singer was involved, but alito really must have not done his research. ultimately, that case was not decided by alito alone. the ruling, as i said, was 7 to 1. and it's impossible to know if anything singer did or said persuade alito at all. but between the hundred thousand dollar flight, the lack of disclosure, the lack of recusal, and the lame excuses, and the attempt to smear propublica in the wall street journal, something here stinks, and it ain't the fish. we're going to talk to one of the propublica reporters who broke this incredible story, right after the break.

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throughout his life, sam alito has shown himself to be a person of grace and humility. of composure and decency, and a fairness and civility. samuel alito is a model supreme court justice. please join me in welcoming him this evening. >> nice friendly introduction. the man introducing samuel alito at this 2010 event. his name is paul singer, he is a hedge fund billionaire, a republican megadonor, and the figure behind him -- published by propublica, offering never revealed details of a luxury fishing trip that justice alito made to alaska, in 2008 aboard mr. singer's private jet. a trip justice alito didn't disclose. now, around the time mr. singer flew justice alito to alaska, he was trying to convince the supreme court, singer's, to intervene in a two billion dollar dispute that he had with the government of argentina. but toledo didn't -- says he didn't do anything

wrong by not disclosing the trip, because he considered it to be personal hospitality and because he says he barely knew mr. singer. quote, my recollection is that i've spoken to mr. singer on no more than a handful of occasions, all of which, with the exception of a small talk during fishing trips 15 years ago, consisted of the brief and casual comments at events attended by large groups. let's continue. on no occasion have we discussed the activities of his business, and have never talked about any case or issue before the court. all right, joining us now is the propublica reporter -- he is part of the team that broke this illuminating story about justice alito last night. josh, good to see you. thank you for being with us. i just want to get to the bottom of this, because alito is claiming he's got a very peripheral ten gentle relationship with singer. but, there is stuff happening in 2007 with singer and the argentinian government, and this was still going on when this fishing trip went on. how did alito get on to the fishing trip? >> yeah.

it's a really interesting question, because actually, one thing we learned is they hadn't met before. this billionaire and justice alito. so, singer, the billionaire, was invited on this trip by leonard -- he's the longtime leader of the federalist society, who helped handpick trump's list of supreme court nominees. and, singer was a major donor to him. he invited him on this trip, and he asked if leo and alito could fly on his private jet. and so, there's a lot we still don't know about the genesis of this trip. but, paul roads so far point to leo. he's the only connection between these various prominent guests on the trip. there is a trip with the justice that leo had just played a key role in confirming to the supreme court. a judge that leo had clerked for, and then two major donors to leo's network of political groups. >> so leo has responded to your article. he said quote, i would never presume to tell the justices what you do and know objective and well informed observer of

the judiciary on a sly could believe that they decide cases in order to cole favor with friends or in return for a free plane seat or a fishing trip. leonard leo is incredulous that someone might take something in response for something else. now, you worked for an organization and i work for an organization that has rules but why can take from people. the rule doesn't say i can't take a gift because i might fall under their influence. the rule says you can't take the gift so that the public can understand that i don't take gifts from people. and you don't take gifts from people. it's not a whether or not you did something, it's a, these guys just don't seem to understand. >> yeah, exactly. there's no evidence that this was a quid pro quo. that there is a specific ruling in exchange for a specific gift. but, i think what this

underscores here is that the rules you're talking about that you and i have as journalists are also rules that are very strictly in place in just about every other part of the federal government, in terms of what gifts you can take from outside parties, what you have to disclose, and all manner of other things. these are the trips we're talking about, they would be unheard of for virtually every other employee of the federal government. >> so interesting way this happened. you guys write this article, you ask for response from alito, he then publishes an op-ed in the wall street journal which is odd. but then, this evening, the wall street journal published an editorial as well, in which it says propublica's focus on recusal is the latest angle in the progressive campaign to cripple the courts new majority. by imposing even tenuous associations as grounds for recusal, litigants can exclude certain justices from hearing a case. with a court of only nine justices, this could determine the outcome. call it court thinning rather than court packing, but the effect would be similar. so they are ascribing a motive to the fact that you wrote this article. something to suggest that you're trying to somehow

hobbled the supreme court. you're writing an article, which is what you at propublica do. you researched things, you uncover things, you report things, and you write the article. >> yes. so to be clear, we are covering the supreme court because last year my colleague justin and i we're thinking about how it seems like the judiciary just doesn't get covered like other branches of government. there's a vigorous coverage of congresspeople of both parties, of presidents, of cabinet officials, and there's not a history of investigative coverage of the supreme court or the lower courts for that matter. and, it turns out as we started digging that there's a lot to find their. i think because the rules that exist in these other branches just aren't in place when it comes to the supreme court. >> which by the way most of us don't know and we've now learned. but your bearing witness and trying to hold to account. the wall street journal says you have some effort to undermine the court. would it be fair to say, i'm going to ask you that, do you have some effort to undermine the court? >> there's obviously no effort to undermine the court.

there's a valence in this and that there is a partisan motivation as well, and i can say that we are actively reporting on all of the justices and we are eager to learn as much as we can about ethics in the supreme court, with no regards to partisanship. >> thanks for your reporting. >> thank you. >> thanks for making the time tonight. we're going to be right back. we're going to be right back. we're going to be right back. we're going to be right back. we're going to be right back. we're going to be right back. we're going to be right back. we're going to be right back. we're going to be right back. imagine you're doing something you love. rsv could cut it short. ♪

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>> >> that does it for us tonight. we'll see you tomorrow. now it's time for lawrence o'donnell. >> good to see you my friend. so much to cover tonight from the house judiciary committee as you co a