know, i just, you know, i just feel so bad. i don't really know what to say. like i said, i'm just trying to process all of this now, and it's just a bad feeling, and, you know, it's a sad time. >> it is indeed a sad time, larry daley, we are very sorry for your loss, and we can't tell you how much we appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. general honore, thanks to you as well. the breaking news, the confirmation that the five lives aboard the titan have been lost. that's going to do it for us this hour. up next my colleague katy tur has more breaking coverage of the search for the missing sub that, again, has resulted in the finding that it is lost. and the coast guard press conference any minute. >> thank you very much, the coast guard press conference is beginning right now, real admiral john mauger, let us listen. >> an rov or remote operated vehicle from the vessel horizon

arctic discovered the tail cone of the titan submersible approximately 1,600 feet from the bow of the titanic on the sea floor. the rov subsequently found additional debris in consultation with experts from within the unified command, the debris is consistent with the catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber. upon this determination, we immediately notified the families. on behalf of the united states coast guard and the entire unified command, i offer my deepest condolences to the families. i can only imagine what this has been like for them, and i hope

that this discovery provides some solace during this difficult time. additionally, we've been in close contact with the british and french console general to make sure they are fully apprised and their concerns are being addressed. the outpouring of support in this highly complex search operation has been robust and immensely appreciated. we are grateful for the rapid mobilization of experts on the under seas search and rescue, and we thank all of the agencies and personnel for their role in the response. we're also incredibly grateful for the full spectrum of international assistance that's been provided. the rovs will remain on scene

and continue to gather information. again, our most heartfelt condolences go out to the loved ones of the crew. we'll now take questions. >> reporter: can you talk about delay in the -- [ inaudible question ] >> this was a incredibly complex case. and we're still working to develop the details for the time line involved with this casualty and the response, and so we'll provide that information. >> reporter: the debris and --

>> so this is an incredibly complex operating environment on the sea floor over two miles be beneath the surface, so the remote operating vehicle has been searching and it is highly capable, and we have been able to classify parts of the pressure chamber for the titan submersible. let me refer to one of my undersea experts here, mr. paul hankin, to talk about the nature of some of the debris. >> thank you, admiral. so essentially we found five different major pieces of debris that told us that it was the remains of the titan. the initial thing we found was the nose cone, which was outside of the pressure hull. we then found a large debris

field. within that large debris field, we found the front end bell of the pressure hull. that was the first indication that there was a catastrophic event. shortly thereafter we found the -- a second smaller debris field. within that debris field, we found the other end of the pressure hull, the aft end bell, which was basically comprised the totality of that pressure vessel. we continue to map the debris field, and as the admiral said, we will do the best we can to fully map out what's down there. >> yes, sir, go ahead. >> reporter: with the families of course, what are the

prospects of recovery of the bodies? >> so the question was related, i'm restating the question from the standpoint of sometimes it's hard to hear the question here. what are the prospects for recovering crew members. and so this is a incredibly unforgiving environment down there on the sea floor. and the debris is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel. and so we'll continue to work and continue to search the area down there, but i don't have an answer for prospects at this time. >> reporter: with nbc news is there any suggestion -- sorry, any suggestion at all that the sub itself collided with the wreckage of titanic or that instead it might have imploded above the wreckage and rained down nearby? >> so the question was is there

any question as to whether or not the sub collided with the titanic or whether it imploded above and debris field created from that? so the location of the titan submersible was in an area that was approximately 1,600 feet from the wreck of the titanic. i have an expert here that is familiar with that area and can talk about the debris field and what the debris field indicates in terms of where the casualty may have occurred. >> rear admiral, quickly -- >> let's get the expert voice, please. the expert voice is coming up to answer the question. >> thank you, admiral. so the question is where does the wreck lie in relation to the titanic. i didn't hear the admirals answer, i think 1,600 feet, is that correct, admiral? >> yep. >> so that's off the bow of

titanic. it's in an area where there is not any debris of titanic. it is a smooth bottom. to my knowledge, anything i've seen, there's no titanic wreckage in that area, and again, 200 plus meters from the bow, and consistent with the location of last communication for an implosion in the water column. and the size of the debris field is consistent with that implosion in the water column. >> what would cause the implosion? >> reporter: in terms of the timing here, you say this was a catastrophic implosion, and i know it's early on, but is it your estimation that this happened right at the moment when they lost contact an hour and 45 minutes after their descent? >> so the question was about the timing of the catastrophic implosion. right now it is too early to tell with that. we know that as we've been prosecuting this search over the

course of the last 72 hours and beyond that we've had sonar buoys in the water nearly continuously, and have not detected any catastrophic events when those sonar buoys have been in the water. so. >> can you describe what happens from here, sir? in the next days and weeks, finding anymore debris, what happens from here? >> the question was what happens from here, what's the next phase. and so right now, again, our thoughts are with the families, and making sure that they have an understanding as best as we can provide of what happened and begin to find some closure. in terms of the large process, we're going to continue to

investigate the sight of the debris field. and then i know that there's also a lot of questions about how, why and when did this happen. and so, you know, those are questions that we will collect as much information as we can on now while the governments are meeting and discussing, you know, what an investigation of this nature of casualty might look like. this is something that happened, i'll just remind everybody, this is something that happened in a remote portion of the ocean with people from, you know, several different countries around the world, and so it is a complex case to work through. but i'm confident that those

questions will begin to get answered. >> will the coast guard lead the investigation, sir? >> reporter: is there any suggestion the time factor, speed, anything that could have prevented this or saved five people on board or is this quite simply a catastrophic accident? >> the question was was there any suggestion that time factors may have played a role or consideration in the casualty here. and so the debris field is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel. again, while we were prosecuting the search, we had listening devices in the water throughout, and did not hear any signs of catastrophic failure from those. and so we're going to continue to investigate or we're going to continue to document the

information there, and understand based on all the information we have the time line. >> reporter: what does this mean for the resources of the investigation? >> so the question was what are the resources required for the investigation and what ships will be pulling out and staying in. and so it's too early for me to talk about an investigation. that's a decision that's going to be taken outside of the search efforts that i was leading. and we do have a number of vessels. we have nine vessels on the scene right now. we had medical personnel on scene. we had other technicians on scene, and so we will begin to demobilize personnel and vessels from the scene over the course

of the next 24 hours. but we're going to continue remote operations on the sea floor, and i don't have a time line for when we would intend to stop remote operations on the sea floor at this point. >> reporter: do you think there should be changes in the way these are safety rated or inspected so that this won't happen again? >> the question was essentially about do you think that there should be changes in safety ratings or inspection for these standards. i know that there's a lot of questions about why, how, when this happened, and the members of the unified command, you know, have those questions, too, as professionals and experts that work in this environment. and this is an incredibly difficult and dangerous environment to work in out there.

but those questions about the regulations that apply and the standards, that's going to be, i'm sure, a focus of future review. right now, we're focused on documenting the scene and continuing the sub floor. >> reporter: go through the timing here. we don't know the timing here, but there was banging noises, that redirected, redeployed the rovs to this area. is there anything conclusive in the area, and the redirection and finding the debris field today all help? >> so throughout the search efforts, we reacted to the information that we had available to us. and while we continue to send off deeper analysis, again, really complex operating environment for us to work.

let me check with the experts, but there doesn't appear to be any connection between the noises and the location on the sea floor. again, this was a catastrophic implosion of the vessel, which would have generated a significant broad band sound down there that the sonar buoys would have picked up. >> reporter: you mentioned closure for the family, admiral, can i ask you about your comment regarding the families? >> reporter: they arrived early this morning, and swiftly, and also were all of the assets involved moved as quickly as possible to the area? was any help turned away? >> this was a incredibly complex

operation. and we were able to mobilize an immense amount of gear to the site and just a really remarkable amount of time given the fact that we started without any sort of vessel response plan for this or any sort of pre-staged resources. and so the equipment that was brought on site this morning that we were using was a polagic rov capable of operating at 6,000 meters. other cameras, arms, resources on it. we had to transport it here through c 17 aircraft. this is two aircraft that it took to get this up here. so we've really had the right gear on site, and worked as swiftly as possible to bring all of the capabilities that we had

to bear, to this search and rescue effort. and it was just a huge international and inter-agency effort to make this happen. i'm really grateful for all of the responders that came out to support this, and really, you know, search for the vessel. it is a difficult day for all of us. and it's especially difficult for the families and our thoughts are with the families today. but this was an immense support and we had the right gear on the bottom to find it. >> reporter: will you attempt to recover the bodies, though, the victims, will they be recovered? >> thank you so much everyone for attending this afternoon. there are no future planned press conferences. updates will be shared to the uscg northeast twitter page and

our staff will be available to take down any questions following this. thank you. >> reporter: can you spell and give us the names. >> that is the end of that u.s. coast guard press conference. rear admiral john mauger giving us more on the news we got just minutes before that everybody on board the titan has been lost. oceangate confirmed it and now the u.s. coast guard is giving us a little bit more information about what they believe happened. they found the debris of the titan about 1,600 feet from the wreckage of the titanic. our correspondent tom costello asked, well, did this submersible run into the titanic and then suffer a catastrophic event or did it suffer a catastrophic event in the water and then fall down to the ocean floor. it appears according to the coast guard what happened was that it did suffer a

catastrophic event in the water column, so somewhere above and then fell down to the floor, where it landed, 1,600 feet from the titanic, there is no wreckage. it is a flat bottom. so what happened. they say a catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber. and they realized this the moment they found this wreckage and immediately notified the families. five different major pieces of debris, the nose cone was outside of the pressure hull. the front end bell of the pressure hull was found in one area, and a larger debris field, and a smaller debris field, the second one, the aft end bell essentially it imploded. something went wrong. and it imploded. now, what went wrong would be the question.

the rov that initially found this wreckage is still down there, and it's still gathering information. this right here is a virtual model of the titan that we have made here at nbc news. this is what it looks like or what it did look like inside. when did this happen? there was a question of whether this happened the moment that it lost contact with the ship above it. there's not a clear answer for that. but it does appear to have been swift and immediate. joining me from from boston is nbc news correspondent kristen dahlgren. this is what everybody feared. >> reporter: right. exactly. and, you know, the question of when it happened, they did make clear that since they have been on site, they have been listening, dropping these sonar buoys, and there has been no indication of any catastrophic failure that they say they would have heard that implosion, and so that presumably means that it

did happen at some point in those immediate hours after it lost contact. a lot of questions also about the crew, whether or not they would continue to search, would they be able to recover any bodies, and the answer to that was that it is an unforgiving atmosphere down there, and they said that the debris was consistent with this catastrophic implosion, and so they weren't confident but didn't know for sure if they would be able to recover any of the crew members, you know, think about it. this was a 22 foot vessel. it was spread across a debris field. those pieces that you mentioned in several different places around that smooth bottom surface right in front of the titanic. so those were some of the questions. we're also beginning to hear from some of the family members. our colleague daniel arkin at nbc news digital did an

interview with the dawood's oldest sister, remember, that is the british pakistani businessman, his 19-year-old son on board, and tragic to listen to how she's reacting. she says she's particularly close with suleman, the 19-year-old, and he, according to her didn't want to go on the submarine. he did it because it was father's day, that his father was obsessed. the father was absolutely obsessed with the titanic from the time that he was a young man, and so his 19-year-old son, according to shahzada's oldest sister went with him, and they are among those lost also. the ceo, stockton rush of oceangatings as well as british billionaire, hammish harding. and paul-henri nargeolet.

so, you know, our thoughts with all of their families at this point as well. >> let's give you a little bit more information about who was on board, hammish harding, as you mentioned, a 58-year-old british billionaire, he visited the south pole with astronaut buzz aldrin. he holds three guinness world records, including one more more than a four-hour dive in the deepest part of the mariana trench. so he's familiar with this deep sea diving or he was. he was also on blue origin last year, that sub orbital flight founded by jeff bezos. p.h. nargeolet was a 77-year-old former commander of the french navy. he is also a deep sea search expert who has completed at least 35 dives to the wreck of the titanic. he's considered one of the foremost experts on the titanic. he also is the director of

underwater research at rms titanic which has the exclusive rights to salvage artifacts from the wreck. nargeolet was also part of the effort to find air france flight 447. which went down over the atlantic ocean. you're talking about a moment ago, shahzada dawood, the father, he was 48 years old, a pakistani british businessman and philanthropist. his daughter said that he was obsessed with the titanic and took his 19-year-old soon suleman with him. he had just graduated, i'm sorry, finished his first year of business school. and also stockton rush, he's the ceo of this whole endeavor, of oceangate expeditions. he was 61 years old. and aerospace engineer with a well documented love of deep sea exploration. he designed this submersible,

and as we've seen in the past few days of coverage, it was jury rigged with a video game controller. there was also a lot of criticism with the way it was made, the materials he decided to use, the fact that it wasn't classed, it wasn't certified to say this is what it could handle and there was worry that something bad would happen, something catastrophic, which would mean not only, you know, bad things for him and those people on board but also for the entire industry, and while people might roll their eyes and say this is a bunch of rich people doing rich people tourism, what it also enabled was the funding and exploration for science. this enabled a lot more science to understand the deep oceans, which we know so little about. so he was the fifth passenger on that submersible. let's bring in retired u.s. navy

captain bobby schole, the first woman to serve as the navy's supervisor of div diving. she played a major role in the twa in 1996, and diving operations on the 2000 uss coal booming in yemen. and mixed gas deep sea diving officer, robert pazini, he served 26 years in navy special operations. all right. let's start with -- let's start with what it's going to take to recover anything from that far down. the rov is down there, but the families obviously are going to want to find something of their loved ones, is there going to be anything for them to potentially get back? >> well, first of all, my deepest condolences to the families. it's a really rough time, and i

just really feel for them right now. it's going to be very difficult as the admiral said, it's a harsh environment, and if the catastrophic event happened in the water column, which apparently it did, chances are that the crew, if there was anything that could be recovered might have been scattered. and it was an implosion, and like explosion, you know, that would have done things to the crew members that would make it even harder to recover them, so it's going to be very hard for the team to recovery anything. the fact that the rovs are going to be the resource down there that would be doing the recovery, it's going to make it even more difficult. it's going to be a rough time. >> yeah, robert, talk to me

about why there was such concerns about the materials that were used to build this submersible. what was he putting together down there, and why might there have been an accident like this? >> well, to start with why there may have been an accident, clearly, as was previously mentioned, there was an implosion, opposite of explosion, so this vessel, which was designed to operate in a very high pressure environment, roughly i think 88,000 pounds per square inch, there was a failure. my understanding is this vessel has been this deep before, to the titanic. but at some point there was a failure in -- there was a breach, beyond a breach, there was a catastrophic failure that just created, as odd as this might sound, i think that

everybody on board perished rather quickly given the circumstance. >> could part of the issue be the descending and ascending when you talk to aviation experts, they'll talk about metal fatigue, which leads to failures from the ascending and descending in the sky, the pressure changes up there, could that have been part of the issue down here, robert? >> it's fatigue from several dives certainly is a possibility. i would say at this point all options will be looked at, and certainly that's one of the possibilities. fatigue in underwater operations, there is a degree of fatigue in certain metals and certain things that we use in underwater operations similar to aviation, as you mentioned, and certainly that's a possibility. >> the effort to find this, i know that they had an idea of

the general vicinity that it likely was because it was going down to the titanic, finding it 1,600 feet off the hull of the titanic, though, it's still a small -- you know, it's a needle in a hay stack. it's a minivan in the vast ocean. how were they able to locate this so quickly? >> it is surprisingly that the location happened quicker than in some of our salvage operations. i think the fact that they had the data for where the titan entered the water made it -- i don't want to say an easier search pattern, but between that, the use of the sona buoys, and the help of those rovs, those deep ocean rovs that they were able to get on the scene in the last day or so was a big

factor in being able to locate it, and they knew that the ultimate destination was the titanic and that gave them a good feel for, you know, where to fine tune their search pattern, and ultimately that served to be the key. >> how are they going to -- it's by the titanic, so it's not, you know, obviously in the wreckage, which would have made it a whole lot harder because the titanic is a protected site, and that would have been a real effort to not disturb the site but also to remove the wreckage, are they going to be able to bring up to the surface the remaining pieces of this submersible? >> i believe they are. we've used rovs for salvage operations for decades. and the rovs that they have there, if they're the runs that i believe they are will be able to assist with that, and if for the larger pieces they have that

system in place that they brought out for the fly away deep ocean salvage system that they were ready to bring the entire titan up to the surface with ultimately so they have all the resources on board out there that they needed. and i believe that they'll be able to use that to recover all the pieces that they ultimately want for any investigation that they decide that they might need. >> and what will they do to try to figure out what went wrong? what's the process? >> well, i've been involved in many salvage operations for the national transportation safety board. now, this doesn't fall under that purview from what i understand. as the countries involve put their heads together and decide what sort of possible investigation they might need, you know, they're going to look

at the pieces, they're going to look at the pattern of the debris field, just like we would in any aviation destination that would have ended up on the ocean floor, and they're going to look at the metal fatigue, which they can determine by bringing up the pieces, and you know, it's a science that we've had for, you know, many years of how to determine what caused the catastrophic implosion. >> robert, one of the questions that was asked in the news conference is what should change after this, whether there should be essentially more regulation in the industry. do you know why this operation was able to go down to the titanic without being classed, without being certified by an organization? is it because it's in international waters? >> well, there's probably not a national governing body. i don't know that for sure. but certainly in other modes of

transport aviation, automobiles, there are industry standards. there's quality assurance, and there's legal requirements, and obviously captain scully would know a lot more about that than i would, but there doesn't appear to be a nationally enforceable standard that i'm aware of but on the other side of that, there's adventure, and there's scientific research, and there's this spirit of discovery that is part of the human condition. >> yeah. >> so i think people will always find a way to discover, to pursue passion, and ultimately, you know, we lost three astronauts on the launch pad in a tragic incident in the 1960s, and, you know, these tragedies, unfortunately, are part of discovery. >> yeah, robert, thank you very much, bobbi, stick around for

us. i also want to bring in mike reese, the writer, producer and show runner for "the simpsons", and mike you've been on the titan before. you've gone down to see the titanic. you've been on other expeditions with oceangate, how are you feeling right now? >> yeah, i'm very sad of course. of course everyone's sad, and i knew stockton rush very well. i thought the world of him. i thought he was one of the most amazing characters i ever met, and i also knew paul, but mostly i knew this came with the territory. i knew it from the moment i read about the trip, and yet i took it anyhow. everyone's made a lot of hay about the waiver you sign. you sign a waiver. it mentions 50 ways to die, 50 ways this trip could kill you, and we all knew what we were

getting into at the time. i'm happier it's happened than this way than if they were lingering there, and you know, slowly asphyxiating, but whatever the outcome, whether they survived, whether it had been a slow passing or an instantaneous explosion, it's something they would have grappled with, they would have known this was the risk i took, and i really feel strongly, if it had happened to me, i would have felt that way too. >> what compelled you to take that trip? i know a lot of people out there are thinking to themselves, why would you ever do this, why would you sign up for something like this. you tell me why? >> i think people, men out there will understand, what compelled me was my wife. this was her dream. she loves to travel. i like to sit home and watch

action movies, and she likes to go out and live them. and i'll go with her. i get caught up in her dreams too. this was something we were doing for her birthday, and the great irony of course is they gave us covid tests right before the dive, and she had covid, and so i had to go alone. and -- but i loved it. i loved experience, and there were hiccups along the way, there were miscommunications, and problems, even in my dive. notably, where the implosion has taken place is really where our submarine landed. when i took the titan, we landed 1,600 feet away from the titanic. it's something you can't control because there are underwater currents buffeting you all the way down. i hear that number, 1,600 feet, and i go, yeah, that's where i

was. and we spent most of our time at the bottom of the ocean just groping in the dark, trying to find the titanic, and we did find it in the last 20 minutes we could have stayed down there. >> so when you get down there, tell me, it gets to pitch black, you don't really know where you're going, how did the thing move around? >> yes, the sub was very very simple, and i think that's a good thing. everyone has latched on to this idea that it's controlled by a joy stick from a game controller, and i think that's much better than if it had been run by some high-tech, you know, steering system that you had to spend months trying to learn. i was allowed to steer it and move it for a while. there was nothing to it, and the sub is just propelled by two little engines that look like fans you would put on your desk

top. again, the simplicity of it all gave you comfort, you know, that it wasn't overly elaborate piece of equipment you couldn't figure out. i'll go to the idea, too, just how safe and secure i felt down there. a lot of people have been amazed by my story that i got in the submarine, and even though i was excited and even though death was always in the back of my head, i knew when i left my wife, i might never see her again, nonetheless, i fell asleep in the sub on the way down. i was that relaxed and it was that comfortable and nurturing an environment. >> that says something. you talk about some of the stuff that went wrong when you were down there, what were the issues? >> communications was always a problem. communications would be spotty and sporadic. i don't think it was a failure of hardware as much as just a

problem of, you know, two miles of water. i think that would break it up. if you use a cell phone, you know, all it takes is a tunnel or an elevator to keep you from getting through, and so communications would go in and out on all four dives that i made with ocean gate, and when we hit the ocean floor to visit the titanic, the compass was acting up, was very erratic and was really of no help to us, so that's what made it difficult. we knew we were near the titanic, and even though it's the biggest thing there and as you're learning, there's nothing else underwater there. it's not like there are reefs or anything else to get in your way. it's just the titanic, but it is so dark that we didn't know quite where it was, and we just sort of pulled together.

it was inspiring, in fact, there were five of us on the ship, including a couple of laymen like myself, and everybody just took a map or manned the computers or looked out the porthole just to figure this out and we got it done, and we got there. >> when you went down with stockton, i wonder, did he say anything to you about, you know, if something goes wrong, it will be this or that. oftentimes people who have that type of personality will say this is the adventure we're going on and they will point out to you the vulnerabilities. >> he was not, by the way, the pilot. he was not on my titanic dive. he was on another dive i took with him. just off the coast of new york, and yet we went a thousand feet down to a spot no one had ever been in before. so, you know, i did have a once in a lifetime adventure. he turned me into a neil

armstrong of the hudson river. he always had a very light attitude. i can't stress enough that everyone seems to be looking for blame and workmanship. this was the most detail oriented man i had ever met in my life. he just loved to have meeting after meeting and briefing after briefing, and he loved checklists. we would work our way down checklists every day and then when the meeting would end, he would give me a book on the history of checklists that he thought was so great. what happened here, i think is just something that happened. we look for blame and i think of people climbing mount everest, when a climber is lost you know, do you blame the rope or the tools, do you blame the --

really the blame just goes to the mountain. >> mike reiss, thank you very much for coming on talking to us. i'm really happy that you made it back up. >> yes, i am too. joining me now, entrepreneur philanthropist and adventurer, an acquaintance of stockton rush, and hammish harding, on an expedition as well. when i was reading about stockton rush, i came across as everyone has his interview with cbs's david pope for sunday morning, and he was asked about safety because issues had been raised, there was a letter written to him by members of the industry saying that this submersible that you have built is not safe. something bad is going to happen. and he was always pushing back on it. and his response to it was, i mean, if you just want to be safe, don't get out of bed, don't get in your car, don't do anything. at some point you're going to sake some risk and it really is a risk/reward question.

he added that safety is a pure waste. is that how you understand stockton rush, that the adventure itself, the discovery itself was worth all the danger? >> yeah, first and foremost, i was signed up for the 2019 expeditions, which ended up not going ahead. not because of safety concerns but down to pure bureaucracy. we couldn't get the big vessel to steam out of st. john's, there was some bureaucratic problems with the flag, so but i was very far down, the preparations, had lots of calls with the ocean gate team and presentation from stockton, et cetera. and also know quite a few of my fellow adventurers and astronauts who have been on the sub and so i'm very well connected into that community. the description i would give of stockton when it comes to safety and also what i hear from other

people, he was actually quite obsessed with safety, and his wife wendy was really really keen, obviously to make sure that everything was safe, safe, safe. checklists, checklists, checklists, safety, safety, safety. so there was definitely a big focus on that. and even in the 2021, 2022 missions where some missions went well, either went all the way down to titanic, but some didn't. either had to abort part of the way and go back up again. stockton was always very cautious, and quick to abort, just to be on the safe side. so i think, and taking into account what seems to be happening also the u.s. coast guard description here, where the things has imploded it would seem to indicate that it was something with the structural design more than anything else. it is a new design to use composite material in addition to a bit of titanium on the side, as opposed to building the

entire submersible out of titanium, nickel and steel, which you would normally do. so it is an innovative design. it was an experimental submarine that hadn't been certified. and i think that's now is going to be where the debate is going to be around. >> why is that material? why not go to the tried and true material? why not do the things that works and you know is going to work, why use something new and different and refuse to get it certified, refuse to get it classed? >> combustible material has certain characteristics that it is lighter, easier to maneuver around. i mean, a traditional submersible is very heavy, very bulky, and also expensive, quite frankly. titanium is a very expensive material. so why he decided to go exactly down that route, obviously only he would know, but it was a new way of building subs. back in 2018, there were these

engineering reports coming out saying raising concerns about the possibility of implosion, which seems to be the path we're going down based on what the u.s. coast guard said. but obviously it was a debate in the community and amongst the scientists and clever engineers. i'm not an engineer so i wouldn't be able to comment one side or the other. i'm an adventurer, i do adventurous things. in 2008, i became the first person to sky diver mount everest. next year i'm going to space. that's what we do, but yeah. >> i think why do you do it is a question that people want to know? why take all of those risks? >> i'm an adventurer. i like to push the boundaries up or down. and live out my dreams, and i have a big heart and a big appetite on life, and perhaps also a little bit higher risk

appetite than most people. but i think also more broadly, we as human beings have always had that desire for innovation, pushing the boundaries. that is, in fact, what makes us the species we are, an advanced civilization. without that, we wouldn't get that, and sometimes, unfortunately, it does come at a cost, but as adventurers in particular, we want to feel higher than the 10,000 meters, you're flying in the air when you fly from a to b or deeper than the thousand meters that most submarines tend to cruise at. less than 600 people have been to space. less than 200 people have been down to the titanic. as adventurers and innovative you push the boundaries and inspire people to live out their dreams, whatever their dreams might be. >> tell me about hammish harding, i gave the basics, he was an adventurer, went to the south pole, going to the deepest

part of the mariana trench, the deepest part of the ocean. on blue origin last year, you said you're going to space. what was hammish like? >> he was larger than life. he was a very successful businessman in aviation, based out of dubai. when it comes to the adventures, he was incredibly accomplished. he had three guinness world records to his name. been to space. well done, incredible, and like i said, been to the trench. these are incredible achievements within the space and adventure community, and we all admired him and had a lot of respect for him. but he was just a very nice guy. if you had a drink with him, you would enjoy it tremendously. just a really nice guy. i'm deeply saddened by the loss of him as well as the others of course. >> i imagine he also knew what he was getting into and understood that each add venture that he took could be his last.

>> yes, as adventurers, we're positive people. the glass is half full, not half empty, so we do look at the excitement and what it entails, et cetera, in terms of wouldn't it be cool and nice to break that boundary or go down to the titanic, down to space. we're not naive. we're informed about the risk. we assess them. people try to minimize them as much as possible. we certainly are aware that this is risky business to a degree and therefore we accept it. we take it on board, but we still hope deep inside, knock's going to deep inside nothing is going to happen, and i think we have that blissfulness and positivity it's going to be all right given all these safety precautions we have taken. and i must say personally this is a knife through my heart, and it does remind all of us that, you know, maybe think extra

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david, what is your understanding since you know this area better than pretty much anyone of what might have gone wrong? >> well, i think what we thought in the very first few hours after this was reported was the simplest thing which was that i've heard that the sub called up to the ship and said they had a problem and they were dropping weights and surfacing. i can't verify that, but communications were then lost. then there was reportedly -- i can't verify this either, it sounded like an implosion. that's a simple solution. and why did it implode? there's a lot of different reasons it could have. failure of the hull, and you touched on it earlier, it could have been every single dive it's taking that hull and squeezing it and releasing it, and squeezing it releasing and go through so many of those.

that was a logical thing it was a catastrophic implosion, and that meant the sub first came together and then apart, and all those pieces rained down on the seafloor, which is sad. >> so i know this wasn't classed, but i imagine some testing was done before every dive. they only could do one dive a year. what sort of checks do they do beforehand to ensure it is as safe as possible understanding nothing is perfectly safe down there? >> yeah, i'm not sure how they did it with carbon fire or exactly what they did? i know when i was with ocean graphic i was there for 30 years our team would know that submarine every single bolt inside and out. in fact they would take it apart and put it back together again because they had a vested interest in safety. that was very different than this. but as you heard stockton wanted to push the envelope, he did,

and sometimes this is what happens. incredibly qualified, he told me many, many times this was perfectly safe. and that was enough for me to believe in his mind this was perfectly safe. >> what is the balance between innovation and exploration here because i think there was some concern that something like this if it were to happen with this submersible would have a chilling effect on the industry and make it -- make it harder for scientific discovery, potentially. >> yeah, i -- i don't think that that should be -- that's a fair thing. submarines have been around for quite a while, long before robots. >> well, in the sense that tourism. and you pay $250,000 to do this, and what it enables is it funds a lot of other exploration. it's not just funding this individual trip. are you worried that for tourism

which is bringing so much money to this industry, it might be harder to find these people who might want to do this sort of thing? >> no, i don't think that will ever -- i think there'll always be people who want to do this after this. in the early days very few people had submarines. they were very costly to put together, very costly to upkeep. today for a few millions you can design and build your own submarine. yeah, how do you control that? we're in the early days of wild west except it's the deep sea where a normal person can just go there. >> you know, you mention p.h. nar geolet. how are you going to remember him? >> it's going to be tough. p.h. was the most unusual guy. he was as calm on the deck of a sea in a storm as he was in a

parisian cafe, incredibly competent, incredibly wise. and, you know, in some ways you want to say this is a wonderful way to go. i hate saying that, that he's now in the spot that he loved most beneath the sea, which was titanic. he spent a lot of time mapping that seafloor and exploring more than anyone else, in fact. the smiles, behaviors, the explorer, it's going to be tough to know which one of those, the whole person, it's going to be tough to realize that he's gone. >> david gallo, appreciate it. i'm sorry for your loss and everybody's loss in what is a tragic situation. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. we're following several b