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tonight. if there's one thing journalist have learned from donald trump's many legal ordeals, it's always to have a camera ready. that came in handy today when members of our nbc team spotted this guy leaving a federal courthouse in washington, d. c..

the same courthouse where a grand jury has been hearing testimony about efforts from trump and others to deny joe biden the presidency in 2020. this guy that you're looking at right here, his name is gary michael brown. i think it's gee michael brown at the moment. that's relevant. the former deputy director of election day operations for trump's 2020 campaign. a very important figure in the fake elector plot that put together to stop congress from certifying the election on january the 6th. mr. brown made it to the final report of the january six committee, specifically to a section this further explains the multi state plot. quote, by early january, most of the fake elector votes had arrived in washington, except those from michigan and wisconsin. undeterred, the trump team arranged to fly them to washington and hand deliver them to congress for the vice president himself. quote, freaking trump idiots want someone to fly a original

elector papers to the senate president. wisconsin republican party official marc jefferson wrote to the party chairman andrew hit on january 4th. hit responded, okay, i see i have a missed call from mike roman. mr. brown's boss at the time and a text from someone else. did you talk to them already? this is just nuts. the next day trump campaign deputy director for election day operations g michael brown sent a text message to other campaign staff suggesting that he was the person who delivered the fake votes to congress. after sending the group a photo of his face with the capitol in the background brown said quote, this has got to be the cover of a book that i write one day. i should probably by mike roman a tie or something for sending me on this one. it hasn't been done since 1876? it was only three states that did it, and quote. all right, as to the photograph that i just described, that brown sent to trump's campaign

staff, this is it. it was sent with a caption that reads quote, mission accomplished, about two uber home. mr. brown was leaving the courthouse today a member of the media asked him if he was there to talk to the grand jury. he ignored the question and then said that he was starving and looking for a sandwich. about an hour and a half earlier, nbc reporters had seen him's heading to the third floor of the federal court building, which is where the grand jury meets, accompanied by stanley woodward. woodward is an attorney representing several trump aides including walter dowell, trump's alleged coconspirator in the alleged mar-a-lago documents case. think of this is what you, will but for many legal experts, seeing mr. brown leave the courthouse today is just another sign that special counsel jack smith is continuing to look into the events surrounding january 6th with an increasing focus on the fake elector scheme. whether that investigation ultimately leads to criminal

charges, time will tell. time, however, is already telling us some things. a lot of things actually, about special counsel jack smith's other investigation, the mar-a-lago investigation. this has led to a 37 count indictment of the former president. take a look at this. these are some of donald trump 's truth social comments from this morning. all sent over the course of an hour. many of them in capital letters. this one is particularly telling. all caps, quote, congress, please investigate the political witch hunt against me currently being brought by the corrupt oj and fbi who are totally out of control. stop them now, exclamation mark. and quote. the post, besides being a flagrant call to congress to intervene in federal prosecution against him, is also a sign that things might not be going as trump expects or hopes. by, now we expect that when trump blows smoke on truth social, it might mean that there is a fire somewhere in the justice department. last night, special counsel

jack smith turned over the first batch of evidence in the classified documents case to trump's legal team. that batch of evidence which was made available in three parts includes documents obtained via subpoena. evidence obtained via search warrants. transcripts of grand jury testimony taken before grand juries in washington and florida. memorialization of agents write-ups of witness interviews conducted through last month. statements from some witnesses associated with the case, and copies of closed circuit television footage obtained by investigators. this means that trump is now in a position to know the identities of certain witnesses that have spoken to jack smith 's office, including some that were promised leniency and or immunity. we, on the other hand, don't know the names of those witnesses. if donald trump listens to his lawyers, he will not disclose them to the public. disclosing those names would put the former president in direct violation of a

protective order filed last week by a magistrate judge, bruce reinhart. another important thing that we learned from jack smith's order yesterday is that the evidence shared with trump's legal team contains interviews, plural, that trump did with non government entities, including the one that he had with a publisher and a writer back in july of 2021 at his golf clip in bedminster, new jersey. this is the one where he reportedly showed a classified pentagon documents detailing a plan to attack iran. this spicy nugget is getting a bunch of attention today because we had no official confirmation that more than one recording exist. cnn is reporting that trump's legal team itself turned over those reportings to the special counsel but they don't believe the, quote these additional recordings are as incriminating as the recording referenced in the indictment of the unsealed this month. and quote. there is a lot here. joining us now to report, former acting assistant attorney general for national

security now the executive director of the institute for conservation will advocacy and the professor at the georgetown university law center. she's also the co-host of the msnbc podcast, prosecuting donald trump. ms. mccord thank you for joining us, we appreciate it. >> of course. >> tell me what you make of this. the justice department seems to provide a whole lot of information to the trump defense team in fact more than they would otherwise be obliged to provide, and many more than the trump team had asked for. what is this signaling to you? >> i think it's consistent with everything we have seen jack smith and his team to, since they brought this case in the southern district of florida. they knew they would be on a tight clock if there was any chance of getting this case to trial before the election. and really before it even heats up to get to its most significant parts next summer. that means they had to be providing mr. trump and his lawyers with all of the discarded freeze the to which he is entitled. they also lean forward, saying

that we would give it even more than i required to give. they clearly had this all packaged up and ready to go, probably even before he was indicted. they were waiting to get the protective order in place, the one that you referenced, which prohibits mr. trump and his attorneys from making public any of this discovery material. they had it ready to go, and so as soon as that order was signed, they could start providing. in which they did last night. you can also tell that they do not just work 9 to 5. they work 24/7. this is one reason they'll be able to say to judge cannon, if and when trump and his attorneys try to delay things, they will be able to say that they were prompted to provide fulsome discovery. we have even provided ways in which that, like during the surveillance video they've marked the places that are most pertinent. they literally directed mr. trump to the things that they want to make sure that he sees so that it is not a needle in the haystack. and providing him with all of the grand jury testimony of

witnesses that they expect to call at trial. like you said he will now know those witnesses, and he will know a lot of other things about the evidence that the government tends to use against him. now that -- is the classified information. that discovered information will come other the auspices of the classified information procedures act. >> you are the former assistant attorney general for national security. a lot of the people think about the documents case. it's not really dark in this, case it's a national security issue. now the trump's legal team has access to the information about who was interviewed does that worry you? a protective order for most people if i had one, out abide by donald trump is donald trump. he can break the rules and get trouble from the court for doing that. but if he breaks these particular rules as it deals

with witnesses or the information that is involved here, the consequences are more serious. >> that's right. those consequences including being held in contempt of court, being ordered to show cause for why he should not be held in contempt of court. contempt of court could be leading to civil penalties including fines. it could lead to imprisonment. it is a big stick to holdover mr. trump's head. the problem with mr. trump as we have seen over the years, he has almost an inability to control what he says. frankly, if i was his attorneys, i'd be reading him the right act before it provided him with any of this discovery, and particularly before i provided him with witness names. i would even be thinking about ways to maybe talk to him about the contents without providing those names. of course you can't really represent your client if you do not share with your client who the witnesses are against him. i don't think that they will do that, but i think they will be worried about it. >> i guess the problem is that anything they do that is out of the ordinary in the way that you would treat anybody else

will be held against them. >> that is right. that is right. they have a duty, an ethical duty as members of the bar to represent their clients zealously. that means you can't hide information from your client. they have a tough task to keep their client under control. obviously he is already out, and has been out speaking and making admissions publicly. that can, and i expect it will be used against him in court. he is very uncontrollable as a client. >> let me ask you about the documents that they have not -- the top secret or classified documents not handed over yet. you mentioned cepa, what has to happen here? obviously at the center of the cases top secret documents. it would be off squared for a lot of people to have access and know what they are talking about. this case needs to be tried. >> yes it would be more than awkward. it would be a real national security threat. you are right that for the government to prove of the 31 counts of the illegal retention of national defense information means that the jury need to be -- they need to prove that it's information relayed it to the

national defense, and that has been closely held by the government so that it is not been disclosed to people who have not entitled to receive it. in many courts, they also require the government to show that it would harm the united states if it were to released. at least it would've harmed the united states if it were to be released to people unauthorized to receive it at the time it was retained and not return. that means that the government has to make a decision, and i'm sure it's already made on some of these decisions with respect to those 39 documents. the intelligence agencies who own the information, who are responsible for collecting it using their authorities, those are the intelligence agencies who would need to get permission for the justice department to -- for whatever proof the department wants to use to prove national defense or information. just saying it is classified, marked classified is not enough

to satisfy that burden. that means that what is going to happen now is that once the attorneys for mr. trump are receiving their security clearances, and those are already in train. judge cannon ordered them to begin that process immediately, and they did so. once they are appropriately cleared, the procedures for providing them discovery of the classified information will begin to take place. they will not be able to see that information in their offices, or take it home with them. they will have to view that in be sensitive -- compartments facility. information facility, or a skiff. that for them is going to mean going to the courthouse and being in the courthouse to review those documents. they will not be able to give them to mr. trump to take home. that will slow down the review process, but they will also be entitled themselves to ask the court to make the government turn over what they suspect might be additional classified information that they might want to rely on as part of their defense.

that's where cepa comes into play. there are procedures to provide discovery sometimes to provide substitutions,, or summaries in terms of financial security. there is business for the defense to ask for, more saying it's the business they want to introduce in trial so that the government has the ability to say yes, or no, we cannot introduce them. there are also procedures for the government to work with the court and defense council on how it will present its own affirmative evidence. at some point in time, the judge decides that what the government plans to do is not going to protect mr. trump's constitutional due process rights because they might want to substitute something. they don't want to have something admitted, they don

to the decisions and allow it to be put into evidence. you're going to have to dismiss that charge. there are 31 documents here. there is some play. if they need to jettison some counts they have the ability to do that. this whole process will take some time. that is one reason why i do not think that the trial date of august 14th really has any chance of holding. >> mary, i'm glad that you are here to help us with. this is not the kind of thing that we can wing. mary mccord, i appreciate your time tonight. >> my pleasure. >> we have lots to get to tonight, including republican members of congress drawing attention for all of the wrong reasons. how the ringmaster, kevin mccarthy, is trying to control the circus that it is caucus. coming. up first, to extend the circus meta, for president biden is walking something of a tightrope on his own tonight. we will explain, next. ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ meet the portable blender we can barely keep in stock.

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houston, texas, where former president trump was just the warm-up act. the headliner was indian prime minister -- seeing the prime minister of the world's largest democracy getting this kind of welcome, being able to bring out 50,000 people in texas, to the casual observer this kind of pageantry paints a picture of a beloved democratic figure. that is just part of the picture. the mythology of who prime minister modi is and what he stands for as a public figure has been carefully and awfully brutally laundered, and often with the help of the west. earlier this, year police forced a dozen students at a university in new delhi. they said they had their internet and power cut off, and were prevented from holding gatherings of any kind by police who were in riot gear. their crime, trying to hold a screening of a bbc documentary about prime minister modi. a few weeks later, the bbc's

own indian offices in delhi and -- were raided. journalist phones and documents were taken by police, likely intimidating their sources. what was the word largest democracy so worried about its citizens seeing? what was in this documentary that made india's government used emergency powers to ban it and get platforms like youtube and twitter to take it down for indian audiences? the documentary detailed modi role before he became prime minister. in his role of the chief minister of the indian state where in 2002, the state broke into widespread violent anti-muslim riots that left more than 1000 people mostly muslims, dead. at the time, the u. n. human rights watch said that the police under modi's government were at quote, best passive observers. at worst worked in concert with murderous mobs, and participated directly of burning and looting muslim shops and homes, and the killing and immutable mutilation of muslims and quote. in fact, until he became prime

minister, the united states would not grant modi a visa to enter the country because of his role in that incident in 2002. that was the guy that president trump had his quote unquote world leader bromance with while in office, the guy that enjoyed those cheering crowds in the houston, in 2019. the story that modi does not want the world to see is that he is an actual card carrying member of a far-right hindu nationalist party. he and the more midstream political party of which he's the leader have been cracking down on the rights of the muslim minority, and on dissent and journalism in general. for as long as he's been in power in india. modi does not want you to focus on how raids on journalistic officers have become commonplace in india or how india leads the world year after year in the number of selective government sanctioned internet shutdowns that cut off the flow of information in certain regions. particularly in kashmir, where a muslim majority is brutally and constantly oppressed.

those shutdowns often coincide with events of ethnic and religious mass violence. modi does not want you to focus on how his government, has passed laws that have made it harder for muslims to become citizens to buy property, or get loans. how his party made a way to disqualify modi's top political rival for even running against him. there are more than 200 million muslims in india. nearly as many people as there are people who identify as a white in the united states. modi and his party are actively denying that gigantic minority their rights while the consolidating power for themselves. that is why the u.s. leaders treat modi the way he says when he goes to the u.s.. that's why it matters how we treat him. this is a huge but, there is also a level of pragmatism at play here. the u.s. needs india. the world needs india. india and modi know that. india has surpassed china as the world's most populous country. it's one of the biggest and most important players on the global stage. it's an economic powerhouse. while russia and china are

fully authoritarian, india is still ostensibly a democracy. a problematic democracy, but still a democracy. today prime minister modi was given a royal welcome in washington. today as we speak, modi is the guest of honor at a state dinner with president biden. this is just a few hours after modi was given the honor of addressing a joint session of congress, even posing for photo ops. all of this puts president biden in a very tough spot. while trump was entirely reckless in office, flaunting over modi as much as possible. biden will have to set a different tone. you will have to walk the tightrope keeping india on our side geopolitically, while doing his best to not excuse modi's democratic and human rights abuses. how did he do today? joining us now is bobby gauche, pick him colonist, the former editor in chief of the hindu style times. bobby, good evening, thanks for joining us tonight. this is a tight rope for joe biden. it is not an easy one. he is got a fight going on with

china at the moment, he's got a big fight going on with russia. you just cannot play with india and china and russia at the same time. >> that is about the size of it. i would push back a little bit to say that just because you can't pick a fight with india, it does not mean you need to go overboard and fawn over the prime minister, who has such a questionable record, and whose values are of such contrast to biden's values, and of the values that, we as americans, think matter to us. it is one thing to do business, it's another for the united states to do business india. for trade reasons, geopolitical reasons, that does not mean that we need to have that prime minister of india to give him, as you described, this royal treatment. that is overkill, and what are we getting in return? there is a lot to be asked about the. we have seen with the war in ukraine, india doesn't line up

with our democracies and democracies of the west. when it suits its interests, or how it defines its interests. it lines up with the bad guys. it lines up behind putin against ukraine. that is india, and that is not the leader of a country that makes those kinds of decisions. should they be given the vie mvp treatment? >> earlier this week joe biden gave she jinping a dictator. the white house seem to like that he did this, but -- it never feels like it's being walked back. is it the idea that, hey modi you have to do the right side. is it a carrot and stick kind of thing going on here? >> if there is a stick, i have

not seen it. would not describe it. he is not called him an autocrat, he wants to -- there is a lot of, you're seeing these in the images that are going on right now. i'm not seeing a stick. the united states has, or the biden administration, seems to have taken the view that we have to cozy up to india no matter what. it's not defined what it expects of india in return beyond the vague idea that, well, they are going to be a bulwark against china. india and china have very difficult relations country going to war, serious disputes over territory. that does not mean that india will line up behind the united states. >> america has more than 4 million americans of indian descent. it is a prosperous diaspora. it's a diaspora that is involved in politics domestically, and involved in some cases in politics in india. is american domestic politics at play? does it have any part to play in the way that he is being received here?

>> there is a little bit of that, certainly. modi has a lot of supporters among wealthy indians let's remind ourselves that the indian community in the united states, one of the wealthiest spores of the country. people that give money to both political parties, both republicans and democrats. and sure, i'm sure the biden has an eye on that community as he gives modi this treatment. he is popular with a large section of the indian diaspora. that is certainly a factor. the indian diaspora is not a major factor in american elections not yet anyway. there has got to be, you think a point where american value the values that biden himself claims to have here, no matter how much money you give. >> bobby, thank you as always for your analysis, we have appreciated. thank you. still more to come tonight. kevin mccarthy doesn't seem to

be able to keep his house in order. morning, fighting among the republicans today. raising the question, who exactly controls the republican party's agenda? also, who bailed and battled republican congressman george santos it'll last month? today we learn the answer, we still get a lot of questions. that's next. after advil dual action back pain... yo! uh! ha! ha! [dog bark] what? my back feels better. before advil... new advil dual action back pain fights back pain two ways. for 8 hours of relief.

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who's backing congressman george santos's bid to stay out of jail. the embattled congressman and serial fabulist has been out on bail since last month when he was indicted on 13 felony counts, including money laundering and wire fraud. after that, he posted a 5 million dollar bail bond in order to be released from jail in ahead of his trial. since, then santos has been fighting in court to see keep secret the names of people that guaranteed all of that money to keep him out of jail. his lawyers told the court, quote, but there is zero doubt that they will suffer some unnecessary form of written retaliation if those identities and employment are revealed, end quote. the judge in santos's case disagreed, and referred to desantis's benefactor. the people who paid to get him out of jail are his dad and aunt. that is kind of odd. why would george santos go through all of the trouble to keep the secret of the name of two people who for better or worse were already associate with george santos.

that strange revelation comes as republican members of congress continue to try to figure out how to navigate george santos. today republican-led house ethics committee announced that his issued dozens of subpoenas in the congress investigation into congressman santos. republican house speaker kevin mccarthy steadfastly resisting calls to push for santos's rega resignation. it's a problem because he's got enough problems on his hands to keep together his fraying republican majority as things stand. just last, night mccarthy through his conservative members some red meat when he allowed a vote to censure the democratic congressman adam schiff. that didn't satiate the gop's caucus, of course not. they all got together to vote on another symbolic rebuke of democrats. earlier today, the republican congress of colorado lauren boebert, introduced a measure to impeach president joe biden. the conservative congresswoman charge the president with high

crimes and misdemeanors of not doing everything that the republicans want at the southern border. this is actually a policy matter. republicans tried to avoid the embarrassment of attempting to impeach a president over policy differences by threatening to send that proposal to the committee for further review. avoiding embarrassment really is not house republican style these days. cue the fighting and name-calling. in the lead up to the impeachment significance, congresswoman boebert got into a fight with her one-time ally, marjorie taylor greene. marjorie taylor greene a accusatory report -- her own proposal to impeach joe biden. c-span cameras catch the heated debate over who could take credit for the bad idea that the republicans were actively trying to make disappear? at one point congresswoman greene repeated -- referred to or as a quote -- asked about it later congresswoman greene said that the reporting from name-calling had been impressively correct. joining us now is michael steele former chairman of the republican national committee.

i knew that that would be a smile on your face. good to see you, my friend, thank you for being with us. i guess that there are a couple of universes here, right michael? there's the universe is that the nancy mace's and others talk about, they could be going -- republicans could be validly going and democrats over policy differences and issues, inflation, whatever they want to talk about. and then there is this world, where kevin mccarthy is herding cats around things that republicans don't even want to do, because it doesn't matter. it is nonsensical symbolic stuff that doesn't have any meeting. republicans were doing during the entire obama administration, revealing obamacare. it takes the eye off the ball of anything you actually want to achieve. >> it is this world the marjorie taylor greene, boebert world that isn't only the whirling dervish inside of the party, right? just sort of knocking everything over and disorienting the members. it's also the gravitational

force pulling the party further and further away from just general, hey, can we put up a bill to do something about this? the distraction is so great. the red meat is so real for a lot of the base. they don't know how else to escape this vortex. they sink further and further. and what they saw, what c-span captured, it was basically boebert a little bit peeved that all of a sudden, marjorie taylor greene figured out how to make herself the fan girl for the speaker. and probably if these things are what i hear, throwing her weight around in the house, which is really concerning to a lot of members, this is what this is. this is that tension. what it requires is a referee, a ringmaster. somebody who is going to be

control it. that's not kevin. kevin has a four or five seat majority. he cannot afford to lose a vote, he can't afford to -- them off. here we are. >> here is a week and no matter how you feel about this issue, the presidents adult son has been charged with federal crimes. if one were to be united about something, the republican party could make the news cycle all about, that all week. and yet we just saw what we saw in c-span. they're fighting about impeaching joe biden over the southern border. >> and they're not even fighting about impeaching joe biden. they're fighting about who is going to get the credit for the impeachment. this is where it is. we all agree, we want to impeach joe biden. fine, we'll put that off to next year. right? no. they want credit now. you're right, from a political standpoint if i'm at the rnc, if i'm at the other committees,

the nrcc, senatorial committee. i am gearing up the political narrative around, hunter biden 's problems and woes that are dragged when the presidents bid for reelection. instead, we've got the scenes captured on the floor, in which two members who should ostensibly be on the same side, trying to -- themselves from power. >> let's face to the other conversation, how the democracy works. this impeachment move was about policy matters at the southern border. you can hate everything the democrats or republicans think about anything, but this isn't impeachment for what we normally think that impeachment is. they want to impeach joe biden because they don't think that he managed the southern border properly. >> impeachment implies that there was some sort of malfeasance in office, some

maybe criminal behavior. something so much of a problem constitutionally or otherwise, this is the only recourse. as you rightly know, this is a policy dispute. put an immigration bill on the floor. you run the house for god sakes you've been yapping your lips for how long about immigration? you can't even produce a bill. put a bill on the floor. that is what leaders and managers do when they are in this situation. take advantage of the not just proceed, but real weakness this weakness the administration has when it comes to the border. put something on the table that will cleave off some

center right democrats in the senate. right? then you can push forward. put the pressure politically as well as policy wise. on the administration. but no! we want to talk about who gets to impeach them first. you know, you copied my bill. you know, sorry, b. this is where we are. there is nothing alyn, to expect other than what you are seeing. legislatively, and policy wise, the administration knows that the gop has nothing. they will weather the noise on impeachment. they will weather the noise such as it is about hunter. they will go out and keep talking to the country as jackhammers are hitting the ground, putting down new streets and roads and sidewalks. >> it's something. good to see you, my friend, as always. former chair of the republican national committee. thank you as always. still to come, the u.s. supreme court is set to hand down a number of major decisions expected to cause ripple effects around the country. that's not the only reason for all of the heightened recent's trust in the court these days. the journalist, dolly outlets quick knows the ins and outs of the court. she's joining me now. ahhhh...

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america's plastic makers are investing billions of dollars in new technologies and creating plastic products that are more recyclable. durable. and dependable. our goal is a cleaner, healthier planet for generations to come. for a better tomorrow, we're focused on making plastics better today. >> all eyes are on the supreme court this weekend as just as his make decisions on a series of high-profile issues before the current term ends late next friday. today divided court ruled 5 to 4 over the navajo claim that in 19 -- 1860 a treaty with the -- state access to water. we're expecting major decisions on affirmative, actions student loans and cases they could have implications for first amendment protections.

some of the heightened scrutiny that the court is facing this week has less to do with his decisions inside of the courtroom, and more of the actions of certain justices outside of it. propublica is reporting on justice alito's luxury fishing trip to alaska on conservative hedge fine manager private jet in 2008. in the 2000 -- rather than responding to the republic pending an op-ed appearing in the wall street journal to explain that if he hadn't taken the empty seat on the billionaires jed hugh it would've gone to waste. that reporting is also bringing attention to a another trip that alito took to italy last july. at the time cnn's reporting that notre dame's religious liberty initiative paid for the justices trip to rome to deliver a keynote address at a gala. in this speech justice alito praised his group for the hospitality talked about staying in a hotel that, quote,, looks over the roman forum. it was his first known public appearance after the overturning of roe, and the justice took the opportunity to mock foreign leaders that had criticized the court's decision.

what justice alito was facing well earned criticism for the east, it was another person who played a role akin to matchmaker between conservative justices and billionaires. that person's lead earned liam, the guy on the left. a conservative activist, co-chair of the federalist society. according to propublica reporting it was léo that organized the fishing trip in 2000, eight invited paul singer, and asked singer to fly on his jet with alito. there's the luxury fishing trip, he's the guy in the center of the photo, holding the fish in his left hand. remember this photo realistic paintings defecting harlan crow and his friend, justice clarence thomas. the guy and the, left with the steepled fingers is leonard leo. mr. leo refused to answer questions about the fishing, trip but issued a statement based in pro public as

reporting, based on the justices ethical lapses. we should almost wonder whether the recent rash of propublica stories questioning the integrity of only conservative supreme court justices is bait for reeling in more dark money from woke billionaires who want to damage the supreme court and remake it into one that will disregard the law by rubberstamp-ing the disordered and highly unpopular cultural preferences. and quote. that particular peculiar statement prompted this response from dahlia lithwick, a senior editor first flight, who writes about the hilarity of hearing dark money from woke billionaires from the guy who is connecting on woke billionaires to justice is for travel and influence. it's amazing the level of projection. and quote. what is left to do except to talk to her about this? senior editor for slate the host of the biggest podcast. good to see you, thanks for being here. this story gets stranger and stranger by the day. what we didn't get to talk about yesterday when we went in-depth was leonard leo. this guy is the where's waldo

of conservative justices. he's always around. he's in the picture, he's there. to the extent that this is not a random fishing trip that alito and this billionaire went, on the guy in the middle of ostensibly the guy that was always in the middle, leonard leo. >> he's the travel agent, he just likes traveling with justices and billionaires. i, mean it's really amazing that quote you just read. the statement that he gave to propublica, talking about the woke dark money left here. the idea that he doesn't have an interest in reshaping the court. the reason that the court is hearing those cases that he talked about at the beginning, re-hearing affirmative action, re-hearing whether you can deny service to lgbtq customers. that's because he reshaped the court. that's why those cases are there. >> just to be, clear leonard leo and the federalist society prepared list of judges that donald trump could pick from, prevented.

to say the conservatives will approve of these people if you pick them. leonard leo can't be a casual observer to the shaping of the supreme court of the united states and america. he's possibly the guy whose thumb has been most on the scale. >> not only that, but he brags about it. this is something that he has been lauded for, vetted, for given awards and, praise again, this is the thing that he gives elaborate interviews to the washington post, the new york, are saying that i am the guy. i did this. the idea that he is then in photos with people, and he says that we are not talking about the business of the court, it's super weird that i am sitting here with clarence thomas and the harlan crow, but we are talking about sports. it's just the fatuous news of the defense. take the win, you reshaped the court, you get these billionaires, you get a big brother program where you match up a multibillionaire with the supreme court justice.

you have them lavish them with gifts. take the when you did it. >> don't give interviews about it. here's the interesting thing. yesterday about 6:30 pm -- did idea that the reporting had already come out, this op-ed -- not the op-ed but -- it was an op-ed by justice alito, being printed in the wall street journal. 6:30 yesterday evening, they came out and attacked propublica, saying that they are trying to damage the court. right? by reporting on it. the language is very similar to leonard leo's language here. the idea that by the reporting on justices and their ethics, you're there by damaging the court. as journalists, that doesn't apply anywhere else. and where else, it's holding people to account. somehow, with the supreme court, if you report on them in a negative way, you're damaging the institution. >> it's classic shoot the

messenger. this is all of those of us that -- the model of sobriety and seriousness that we weren't seeing in the floor of the house. we're not trying to take down the court. abide by the rules all justice alito needed to do was disclose. if he had disclosed -- >> he didn't have to. he could've taken everything that was going to do it. he just needed to disclose it. >> he can't. there's a whole fight going on about whether this plane was a facility for purposes of the statute. he saying that the plane was a facility which is clearly wrong. the fact is, when they say that justice ginsburg travels, and justice breyer traveled, we know that because they disclosed the travel. they disclosed to. you can kind of go around the world and eat chicken at bad places. don't tell us that is none of our business. one of the issues with the court the -- they're there to report about the jurisprudence, the cases, the background of why these

cases come to be. most times when i'm interviewing you, it's about the cases. it has now become a bit about the court, and that is a different role for a lot of reporters. the thing that people need to understand is that there are ethics, and there are the rules that they have to follow. the rules are very few. we don't have ethics, ethics rules for supreme court justice is the way that we do for others in federal once. >> right the supreme court justices are supposed to be policing themselves. there is no way to enforce this they say. there are each a law unto themselves. that's when you get justice alito looking around for a dictionary where he can find some where a definition of air travels facilities. right? there isn't the ability for them to enforce it against one another. that raises the burden on to be scrupulous and meticulous. the way that every other government official is about abiding by the law.

the other thing that i would say is that it's really essential bit when they say that they are taking them down, what they're doing is making them a argument about how they are above the law. that is terrifying. >> talia thank you as always. we'll be right back. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex.

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