crunching. >> roads can easily become slick with bug juice. and the smell? >> it just smells like dead, rotten bugs. everywhere. all the time. >> the hospital and seen out of a horror movie. >> you have people out there with leaf broers, with berms, tried to keep the sidewalks clear. >> the swarm is mostly gone, but there are a lot of bugs left helping around. and a lot of mental anguish lingers. >> a reminder of the futility of man. facing mother nature. steve patterson, nbc news. [screaming] >> apologies for the nightmare fuel folks. that is a whole of other level. and on that very disturbing note. i can't even get to say i wish you all look at night, because i've just given you a horrible one. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with me. i will see you at the end of monday.

monday >> we have two massive pieces of nose, special counsel jack smith's investigation into the former president trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. one of this is just broken, and this is about this guy. who is not exactly a household name. this is mike roman. he is the director of election day operations for trump's 2020 campaign. you might know him as the guy who ungenerous, sixth try to physically deliver certificates of the fake a lectures from trump's fake electors scheme. to vice president mike pence. and that act, being the bag man trying to deliver the fake electors on january six, to stop the certification of the 2020 election. that is actually a pretty good encapsulation of his larger role in all of this. you see after the election, there was not all that much to do for trump's director of election day operations. so mike romance shifted to a

new game, he acted as the go-between, the vote weber of sorts, doing the legwork to get state level officials on board with trump's fake elector plan. and it wasn't the legal mastermind behind the plan, he wasn't the brains of the operation, he was the legs of the operation. yesterday mr. romans deputy in that position, this guy, was spotted meeting with special counsel jack smith's grand jury, tonight the new york times is out with a massive scoop that might make roman himself, in talks to cooperate where jack smith's investigation. sources familiar with the matter tell the new york times tonight, that mr. roman is negotiating a proffer agreement. a trade that is likely some level of legal immunity for testimony. and that is huge, gigantic news all on its own. but it really starts to paint a picture when you combine it with the other major piece of news that broke about this investigation tonight. and in that second story, it's about these guys.

not to the road, but these guys are not exactly household names either, this is the chairman of the republican party of nevada, michael mcdonald, and the nevada republican party official jim the graph and read. these were two of donald trump 's fake electors in nevada. now, we already knew that last week these two guys had been spotted going into testify before jacks mitt granbury, but tonight, cnn reports jack smith gave both of these guys-limited immunity in exchange for their testimony nbc has not independently confirmed that report. now, i don't you're thinking, what could the special counsel possibly get from these guys that we have not gotten from years of public reporting, and from the extensive january 6th investigation conducted by the house of representatives? and i'm so glad you asked. the house committee, the general six committee interviewed both of these nevada fake electors on february 24th of last year. now, from the schedule, it looks like one was interviewed before election, the other one was interviewed after election, back to back. lunch in between. the committee got nothing from

these guys. the crap and repeated the fifth more than 190 times. mcdonald pleaded the fifth more than 270 times. mcdonald pleaded the fifth more than 270 times. i'm going to read you a little. this question, what did you mean when you said that president trump, mark meadows, or mr. giuliani quote went, full attack mode? mcdonald, based on the advice of military, i'll evoking my fifth amendment privilege. question, with respect to the words extremely problematic, did you understand that you mean that it would be unlawful or problematic for some other reason? answer, under advice of counsel, i assert the prior privilege. and quote, meaning he pleaded the fifth. their sworn testimony before the house january six committee went on, and on like that for hours. meg roman testified to the committee in august, he pleaded the fifth more than 130 times. now remember, this guy was trump's director of election

day operations. so want to make sure you have, that director of election day operations. so check out how he answered this question. quote, where were you, mister roman on election day? roman, the fifth. he pleaded the fifth to where he was on election day when you are the director of election operations. i know the investigation of trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election can be mattering, because so much of it happened out there in the open. but drawing the connective tissue between everything that happened after the 2020 election, and trump himself in a way that is prove-able, and prosecutable in a court of law is actually a tall order. by offering these guys at the center of the fake elector plot limited immunity, in exchange for testimonial scenic act smith's try to connect the dots. and believe it or not, we are not done. we have a couple of major developments out of jack smith 's other case tonight. you know the other one, the enactment of donald trump and his aide walter nauta, about of handling of classified documents at trump speech will mar-a-lago. the judge in that case, the trump appointee aileen cannon,

had said a child it for mid august, a day every legal expert has expected to. slide tonight, in a brand-new filing for special counsel jack smith, the prosecution's quest in a later date, december 11th, and setting forth a new schedule for pre trial hearings. in the filing, prosecution says quote, defense counsel confirmed they do not oppose an adjournment of the current trial date, and request a status hearing with the court to address the schedule in this action. the fence counsel anticipate finding an opposition to this motion, addressing their objections to the government's proposed dates, and quote. in a separate filing, the prosecution, the government reveals that it is turned over a list of witnesses to the defense, who they argue should not be allowed to speak to trump except through council. and in a footnote, the prosecution apparently hints at how many witnesses that could be. it says the defense quote, have authorized government council to represent the following.

the defense reserves the right to object to the special condition about witnesses, and the matter which was implemented by the government, but providing a list of 84 witnesses in purported compliance with this court order, and quote. 84 witnesses. joining us now, lisa reuben, former litigator of msnbc legal analyst harry lippman, former united his attorney and senior legal ferris columnist for the l. a. times. thank you both for being here, as good to see you both. terry, it's always good to see you. lisa, you and i have spent a lot of our days together these days with you explaining things to me. harry, let's just start with the -- the limited immunity that the two guys in alaga, the discussion that mike roman is having. obviously the idea of giving these guys some immunity for prosecution on the basis of their own testimony is because we care less about these guys if there is some effort to get to the center of the operation, the brains of the operation, the big fish, or donald trump himself. >> it's true, we care less about them, but no prosecutor wants to give out amini like m&ms.

if these guys, and one of them reportedly discussed things directly with the president, and at a minimum where you saw him taking the fifth, he is in communication, potentially with giuliani, jenna ellis, a real inner circle. so this represents the move from pretty patently prove-able charges against the state electors themselves to potentially the inner circle. and that is what you are talking about a fraught with roman -- one it's a textbook prosecutorial moves. brown is a deputy, he comes in and testify as thursday, i think he got immunity. and brown is like, gulp, i better come in. roman, excuse me, is like i had better come and now because he's gonna inculpated me. and what the company needs to do is proper, is tell the government here is what i will say if you let me, and the government based on that could give him immunity as well. so there's a real leverage of the line, and into the washington, d. c., part of the false electors plan. >> so lisa, the mike roman part of this is interesting, because

one wonders what jack smith needs new, or anyone needs new that we've reported this out, it's been before the january 6th committee, and that it was a perfect example. mike roman pleaded the fifth about where he was on election day. right? at this point, that means congress was limited in what it can get out of these people. in a way, that jack smith and the grand jury is not limited, because if you lie to a grand jury you are in trouble. but can they -- is there an equivalent? can these guys just do the same thing, plead the fifth with a grand jury? or is at the point of these negotiations? >> the whole point of these negotiations is that so they don't do that, and that they can provide information that is helpful to the investigation. when mike roman was before the january 6th committee, not only that he refused to answer where

he was on election day, but he refused to answer some much more central questions, including whether or not he ever spoke to president trump directly about the fake electors scheme. my guess is, those are the sorts of questions that are of central importance to jack smith and his investigators when they are looking increasingly at the state electoral scheme, and the involvement of central trump world figures therein, including and up to former president trump. >> harry, let's look at the mar-a-lago criminal case. is there anything that catches your eye in these filings, that number of 84 witnesses. i mean obviously, for me that's interesting. what caught your eye about the delay in the trial, and the back and forth that we were reading a bit about? >> right, the 84 just another reminder. we see little rocks but they are mountains in terms of evidence. but it looks like a delay, i think it's actually an attempt to hold the line. the main thing that trump can use to delay is this classified

information rigmarole, and what smith is clearly saying, and setting a status conference you have is, he can do it all, everything that needs to be done and we can still go to trial december. they could -- that could move to january, february, march. we are well in advance of the worrisome day of say, end of the summer, or even worse. so this is actually the government drawing a realistic line, saying we can do it by, then and in particular saying, let's get on top of this classified stuff now. because that is the one -- everything else has to come anyway, and fairly soon. that is the one motion that they can bring that they could really try to leverage to eat up months, and months of. time. >> and lisa of course this is what you, do you go through these documents and you figure out the stuff that looks like legally is to me, but that's really important. what caught your eye? >> the thing that caught my eye, ali, as there is a declaration

from jay bratton was an official at the department of justice national security division, and the details on the special counsel. one of the things he said in his filing is that not all of the defense counsel have even applied for interim security clearances here. that is a translation, he is basically saying if there is a delay here, it's not on us. it is on them. we have told them we will turn around, interim security clearances around so they can have classified stuff within 24 to 48 hours. we had not even received all of her applications. yet and it is a clear signal to the judge, if this thing is going to drag on, it won't be on the department of justice's watch. we are going to do everything, and anything we can in order to try this case fairly and with enough procedure for donald trump and his lawyers, but at the same time we are not going to drag our feet to prevent him from having a speedy trial as a law entitles them to. >> harry, i want to talk to you about the location of this trial. fort pierce, florida. there were four federal court options in the southern district of florida, this is

aileen cannon's home court. i don't know what these things mean? is it important that it's in her home court? and happens to be the trumpiest of all the court regions from which to pull a jury. what does that mean to you? >> it means exactly that, it maximizes the chance of some -- i don't think anyone sees a real chance of an acquittal for him, but it maximizes the chance of a hung jury, somebody being a hold of which she would certainly spin as a victory. and of course, it goes with judge cannon herself, who it is pretty clear now is not going to heed the calls to recuse as she might've under the law. so we are in there for the duration. >> thank you to both of you, we appreciate your analysis. harry lippman and lisa reuben, i appreciate you making time tonight. all right still ahead tonight, we want to take a look at the horrific realities that many across the countries have a junior in the years since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade, opening decades of abortion rights for millions of those who are of childbearing age.

what it could mean for millions more in the years to come? but next, we've been keeping an eye on reports out of russia of a standoff between the leader of russia's top paramilitary mercenary group and leaders of the russian government as russia's war in the ukraine enters uncharted territory. i will be joined by nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel about what is happening right now in russia, overnight. stay with us.

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>> major breaking news out of russia at this hour. the volatile chief of the wagner paramilitary group, this guy, yevgeny prigozhin, once a putin ally claims he has left ukraine at the head of a column of troops as crossed into russia in some sort of a challenge to the russian defense minister with who he's been waging a war of words since the outset of the russian evasion of ukraine last year. prigozhin he was hired by

russian president vladimir putin last year to mobilize wagner mercenaries to ukraine. he posted a message on social media this afternoon accusing russia's minister of defense, sergei shoigu, of pushing putin to invade ukraine under quote, false pretenses. he also accused the russian military of providing putin with an accurate information about the status of the war, and claim that russia is in fact losing ground on the battlefield. not long after posting that message, at around nine pm local time, prigozhin posted another message blaming the russian military for carrying out an alleged attack against his troops, killing quote, a huge amount of his own forces in ukraine. now this is something that russia has since denied, prigozhin vowed to retaliate, which prompted russian officials to open a criminal case against him. let's just understand this for

a second. this means that the head of the most effective part of russia's ground war in ukraine, without whom russia would not have been where they are today, could now soon be under arrest in his own country, which is where he claims to be right now. it is hard to make sense of this. russian military officials have taken international television to accuse prigozhin of trying to stage a coup. now whether or not his threat has any teeth, we just do not know, but the information we are receiving from reporters inside russia's at the country and the military are right now, at this hour, on high alert. video circulating widely on social media and shared by the moscow times showed armored vehicles being deployed in moscow, and the front line in ukraine where prigozhin's fighters are gathered. medusa, an investigative outlet critical of putin is also reporting that russia domestic intelligence services asking wagner fighters not to obey prigozhin's criminal and treacherous orders, and to take steps to detain him. other russian generals, like the one seen here seated next to a rifle, or appealing to

fighters to ignore the calls for a billion. prigozhin attempted to clarify today, by the way, that is not attempting a coup, but government officials and ukraine are saying that a column of wagner soldiers have now passed checkpoints in the direction of moscow. and a new audio posted by prigozhin says his fighters are now inside russia. there's a lot here, and we have not confirmed any of this information independently, we have just gathered for you now, and we will let you know what we do, and when we can confirm it. but the impact, and the fear that this is generating not just inside russia, but around the world is palpable. russian stocks are now down more than 3% in after hours trading, and the batters running at the bottom of the 24 a russian state television channels say that the statements in the action of prigozhin amount to a call for

an armed civil conflict. it is too early to predict how, or if this is going to have an impact on the war in ukraine. but for months now, prigozhin's mercenary forces, wagner group, have laid a key role in this battle, taking control of times of the ukrainian city of bakhmut in the east, where the longest and bloodiest battle of the war has taken place. joining us now is nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. richard, thanks for joining us, i know you're in taipei right now, but i need to talk to you about this because you understand all of this. the war, sergei prigozhin, and the wagner group's role in this whole thing. what in your estimation is happening right now? >> so, this is a long brewing conflict. and as you said, the details of what exactly is happening right at this moment are a little bit unclear, but if you listen to multiple sources coming out of the russian officials, out of russian media, these direct appeals by russian generals, it appears that this internal strife that has been brewing

for a long time is now spilling over into a potential armed conflict. so, first of all, a little bit, who is yevgeny prigozhin? yevgeny prigozhin is a kremlin insider, he's very close to vladimir putin, or at least was very close to vladimir putin. he was sometimes described as putin's chef. it's not clear that he actually ever cooked for putin, he was more of a caterer, but he goes back to the inner circle days when putin was rising to power in st. petersburg. but he has moved well beyond the catering business. since at least 2014, he has established this wagner group. he established a private mercenary army. and the reason he was able to establish this, according to members of wagner that i've spoken to, former members. i have traveled to several different countries were wagner has operations, including in

the central african republic. i spent quite a bit of time focusing on the subject, so in 2014 roughly, wagner began to have an armed force, initially in ukraine, because there was a need. there was a need because the kremlin, vladimir putin, wanted to keep fighting in that country. this was just around the time, and just after the time of the takeover of crimea. but he wanted to do it in a way that was off the books, in a way that you could use expendable fighters that did not really impact the population. so wagner, yevgeny prigozhin raised his hand and said i have an army. i can create an army, i can use former veterans, i can use criminals, i can use people that the russian population won't really miss if they die on the battlefield, and i can provide this auxiliary force to

russia. it was accepted, prigozhin formed wagner group all the way back in 2014. it was small, it was secret. then it started to grow. when vladimir putin decided to back up bashar al-assad in syria, another military intervention that putin wanted to have off the books, military campaign that did not require troop call ups, that would not impact the russian population in an emotional, or physical way. prigozhin stepped in. since then, his operations have continued to grow. he expanded into africa, which is a way for the operation to raise money. they extract a lot of gold illegally, a lot of blood diamonds from places like the central african republic, there will be a story on that a few weeks ago. once they started fighting on multiple fronts, and were able to generate their own weapon

ministry, prigozhin establishes on power base. he became a force to reckon with inside russia. and then with his latest war in ukraine that began about a year and a half ago, prigozhin entered in a major way. wagner expanded exponentially. it went from a small, secretive force operating in a little known conflicts that the russian people weren't talking about to the main war effort which is the war in ukraine. and once his fighters started to engage in combat, in some cases performed better than the regular army then a rivalry began. a rivalry that at times has been extremely tense, because prigozhin has for months now been accusing the -- the defense establishment, particularly the defense ministry of undermining his forces. and he has accused the defense

minister shoigu in russia, specifically, of treating him like a rival, treating him like an enemy, of not giving his forces the ammunition that they need. prigozhin at times as stood in front of the bodies of his men who died in the city of bakhmut and said, these man died because the russian military establishment is not giving them what they need, is treating them like an enemy. what we saw, apparently, over the last 24 hours was a whole new level of escalation, where prigozhin is saying russian forces deliberately attacked a group of wagner fighters who were camped in the forest, and killed a large number of them. again, no clear verification, but what does seem clear is that these tensions have escalated to an entirely different level, a new category. and then what prigozhin allegedly said in these audio

recordings that are difficult to verify was that he is now so furious, so livid, that he is taking his man, he is taking tens of thousands of them and he is going to rectify the situation himself by marching toward moscow, marching toward the city of rostov, he says it's not a coup, but then he wants to make sure that the people responsible for now consistently denying ammunition in support to his man, and then killing his man. the fsb, the russian intelligence service, says that this is a coup. numerous generals have called on his man directly not to obey these orders, but if this is playing out the way it seems

that it played out, it appears that these long brewing tensions are now turning into something of an insurrection. now, among journalists frankly, we have been watching this tension, as u.s. military officials have been watching, and waiting for a moment like this. waiting for a moment when this verbal tension, these accusations that prigozhin has been leveling at the kremlin, particularly at the defense minister would boil over into something like direct armed conflict, or an assassination attempt against prigozhin, but escalating beyond words. >> richard, if somebody could see the behind the scenes here this evening as this was unfolding and we were playing the game of where's richard engel, because we need to talk to him about this. i am glad we found you, because there is nobody who could provide that level of detail into what is a remarkably confusing situation that is unfolding right now in the ground in russia.

so we are grateful to you sir, thank you richard engel, he is our chief foreign correspondent in taipei right now. we have more to come tonight, the shocking death of an olympic athlete pilots major holes in americas health care system, especially when it comes to the pregnancy and black women. but congresswoman laura unger of illinois wants to do something about, it we're going to be talking to her coming up. plus, as republican presidential hopeful celebrated their own action to curtail abortion rights in america, the real harm their policies are causing it's becoming, more and more evident every day. we will have more on that, next. sweet pillows of softness! this is soft! holy charmin! oh! excuse me! roll it back, everybody!! charmin ultra soft is so cushiony soft, you'll want more! but it's so absorbent, you can use less. enjoy the go with charmin. my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care.

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silky and her husband were excited for the first pregnancy. but her doctors to discover that she was miscarrying, she read to wait for the pregnancy tissue to pass naturally. but during a trip to see family in ohio, she began to experience heavy bleeding. she describes quote, passing blood clots the size of golf balls. so she went to an emergency room and painesville, ohio, medical staff there perform staff tested found found no fetal heartbeat, but never offered her an abortion, known as a dnc for miscarriages. in fact, they discharged her as she was still filling up diapers of blood. she wrote, i disagree under discharge paper. she went home, she passed out from blood loss, her family called 9-1-1, she was called back to the e. r. after being discharged. she needed an emergency dnc,

and that happened because the 2019 trigger law that ban abortion after six weeks after pregnancy became law in ohio hours after the u.s. supreme court issued the dobbs decision last june. that law threatens health care who provide abortion after six weeks with potential prison time, that law is now temporarily blocked, but there are many more like a that are active in their states. tomorrow's going to mark one year exactly since the supreme court ended roe v. wade, upending five decades of abortion rights, and this is what we are left with now. a flood of no daily horror stories that have become the lived realities of millions of people across this country. for 25 million people in this country, the supreme courses asian last year caused a seismic shift in health care access. 25 million people of childbearing age now live in states where it's totally banned, or now where it's shy of band.

just to make it so that if and when the time comes when you are a loved one needs an abortion you really might not be able to get it, not a few states has no. if you are one of the 25 million people in these states with abortion bans and restrictions, your ability to control and care for your own body, to keep yourself alive is really in question, and it could get worse. despite the fact that these abortion bans are deeply unpopular, despite the fact that new polling shows that nearly 80% of women between the age of 18 to 49 disapprove of the dobbs decision, including one third of republican women, to fight the fact of the pastor since jobs, which people die or nearly die because of abortion restrictions, setting aside all of the dobbs decision's, very real implications political, economic, physical, life altering, life ending. republican lawmakers and presidential contenders are doubling down on their antiabortion rhetoric today. in a faith and freedom coalition event in washington, d. c., today, 2024 presidential hopefuls voiced support for antiabortion policies. governor desantis planted of self on the back for quietly signing into law in april the

states new ban on abortion after six weeks of pregnancy. that is before most people know they are pregnant. that law is currently tied up in a court battles by the, way but that did not stop desantis from applauding him self roger corny and job well done. mike pence took things a step farther out that washington event today, and he called on every republican presidential candidate to make this pledge. >> i want to say from my heart, every republican candidate for president should support a ban on abortion, before 15 weeks as a minimum nationwide standard. >> the former vice president of the united states was all competitors for the republican nomination to promise to make it so that no one in this country, whether you are a blue state like new york or california, or a state as crimson red is texas. no one will be able to get an abortion after 15 weeks of

pregnancy at a minimum. that's where we stand. one year after dobbs. with new medical horror stories emerging every day as republican politicians threaten to make things worse. today, after signing an executive order expanding access to birth control, president biden reiterated his commitment to veto any 15-week abortion ban that congress might pass in the future. he repeated that commitment during a white house event to mark the grim anniversary of the dobbs decision. first lady jill biden, first gentlemen dug him, of former speaker of the house nancy pelosi, vice president kamala harris, and president biden all addressed a crowd of reproductive rights organizers and advocates and they promised to fight. >> there is a price to pay for insulting, insulting women. for disrespecting women, and their right to their health care. and there is a price to pay, i don't see that as a threat, i say it is a production. on a say it is a prediction.

>> now, politicians voters continue to fight a restore abortion rights, we are going to take a look at what some other lawmakers are doing to try to improve maternal health. we'll continue that conversation on the other side. my a1c was up here; now, it's down with rybelsus®. his a1c? it's down with rybelsus®. my doctor told me rybelsus® lowered a1c better than a leading branded pill and that people taking rybelsus®

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i'm thankful for the gift, but i mean, a thought we all of a special gift, you know? >> that was track and field olympian tory bowie in 2016,

just one month before the games and real. her give that he was talking about? the speed she was talking about? not something many of us possess. tory bowie would go on to help the u.s. women's team win the gold as the anchor in the sprint really, and silver in the 100 meter dash, and rather than 200 meter dash in rio that year. the following here, at the 2017 world championships in london, but we won gold in the women's 100 meter race. she lead it into the finish line to clinch -- that when earned bowie the title of world's fastest woman. sadly, we will never get to see tori buoys gift in action again. last month she was found dead in her home in florida after deputies went to conduct a well-being check on her. last week wheeler from an autopsy that bowie, who was eight months pregnant, wasn't labor when she died. the cause, was possible complications of respiratory distress, and a clamps here. a clamps here as the onset of seizures, or colin brought on by preeclampsia, as high blood pressure disorder can develop during pregnancy. the complication is rare, the cdc estimates that it occurs about 5% of pregnancies, but the rate of preeclampsia in

black women's 60% higher than it is in white women. in fact, during pregnancy in 2018, but his teammate at the rio olympics allyson felix also developed pre eclampsia. the stories of deadly pregnancy complications or are too common for black women. the cdc also found that black women are three times more likely to die from pregnancy related causes then our white women. this disparity even holds on reserves take into account underlying social and economic factors like education and income, which indicates that racism in discrimination actually do play a critical role in all of this. one case that this scenario may bring to mind is that of the tennis star serena williams who made headlines when she talked about how she nearly died after giving birth to her daughter. hospital employees ignored her concerns when she told them she might be experiencing a pulmonary embolism because of her history of blood clots. it was only after she insisted

on a ct scan that a blood clot was actually found in her long, a pulmonary embolism. that harrowing ordeal raisin importing question, what are most visible, and powerful black women in the world had to fight to get appropriate medical attention during such a vulnerable moment. what might be happening to women whose names and faces are not as well-known? so as we approach one year since the overturning of roe v. wade, we are seeing, more and more stories about how abortion laws are impacting the standard of care for pregnant people amid existing disparities in black maternal health care outcomes. democratic congressman lauren underwood has reintroduced her mom and a bus act, to help give voters more a fighting chance. the mom the bus is made up of 14 individual bills address the many factors that drive maternal mortality and disparity. some of these investments easel make will be -- sworn for moms with internal mental health deliveries, as not as used to voters, growing diversifying the pre-parental workforce, so that all mothers would he maternal health, care

and build trust, and -- incentivize is high quality maternity care during the after pregnancy. and given the stark reality of women who may suffer pregnancy complications, or be forced by law to carry pregnancies to term, this level of support is more vital than ever. joining us now is the democratic congressman lauren underwood from illinois. congresswoman, thank you for joining us, it's good to see you tonight. >> ali, thank you for having me. >> this is an issue -- it's an entirely -- it's a real issue. but it's one that who people don't know much napoli. because this is america in 2023. and when you look at our maternal mortality statistics, and maternal health statistics it does not hold up well to the rest of the developed world. there are countries in the non developed world that are sometimes safer for you to be pregnant in then in the developed world, then in

america. >> that's right. and tragic deaths like tori bowie's are far too common in this country. i want to start of i give my deepest condolences to tori's family, friends, and teammates. but it feels like so often, almost daily, we hear the news of another mom who has lost her life to pregnancy related complications. what we know from the data is that the overwhelming majority of these deaths, over 80% of these deaths are preventable. and we know how to save their lives, we just have to choose, policy makers have to choose to pass comprehensive legislation including the momnibus, in order to take action and save moms. >> let's talk about what you're likely gonna challenges are in getting the momnibus bill passed? because it does seem like the most obvious thing in the world. i would imagine your challenges people saying, this is not a priority, this is not as important as it is.

but it kind of literally accidental among the most important things that we can deal with this country. >> you know what ali, among my colleagues are doing here. that what often hear is wow, i thought that we had handled this years ago. i did not know that this was still a problem. and so, they are really interested in hearing more, and learning more about the solutions. and that is how we were able to cast protecting moms who serve act, which is part of the momnibus to support our veteran moms. it passed the house unanimously. so think about the range of topics that can get unanimous support, democrats and republicans coming together to solve these kinds of problems, that is how we will get the momnibus side as well. >> you have 181 cosponsors i believe? this is a broad bill. >> we are up in the one 80s. we are gathering more support every day, there is bipartisan bills in the momnibus, and we also have the bill that has been reintroduced in the senate as well. so we are moving forward full steam. >> the cdc estimates that 80% of maternal deaths in this country are preventable, right? getting to zero is one thing, but we can actually get really

close to that just by doing these things. it is -- how fast can we get there? if your bill gets passed, and other things are not, is not going to be this bill. how fast can we get to the place where we lead the world emotional health? >> oh, this is a challenge that we can begin tackling right now, today. if these investments flood into our communities, it would approve the health and well-being of all moms. number one, whether you, old young, live in an urban, or rural community. this is an issue that can help improve maternal health care for everyone while also saving lives of those who are most likely to die, and so we are so eager to get these investments into all of our communities as quickly as possible. we are looking for the next available legislative vehicle to attach them momnibus to, and that's why we are working so hard to get the bipartisan support to get it done. >> and i don't want to compromise that, but i do want

to ask you if you could make any connection between what you are trying to achieve here and the fact that, in the minds of many people, the last year has been a step back in -- in maternal mortality battles because we have lost some health care, we have lost access to reproductive health care in number of states. >> well yes, without a doubt. we are seeing in the year post-dobbs, an increase in preventable maternal mortality. we know that that makes many individuals who espouse a pro life believe, or value system very uncomfortable with the idea of moms dying as a result of childbirth, they are looking for a solution. we are here to offer the momnibus as the solution to address the internal health crisis. we have funding that helps rural communities, suburban communities, urban communities, right? we have bipartisan solutions in knee momnibus but, what is more important as their evidence based. so we looked at the data and the research, that we know what would work to save moms lives, and that is exactly what is in the momnibus.

>> but we ask you one thing, the study indicated that if you allow for -- if you account for differences in economics, and education. black women still data more frequently than white women do. how do you solve for that? what in your bill addresses that? i know that's not for you to just solve in one bill, but what addresses that part? what does that tell you, and how do you fix that? >> well, part of it is just acknowledging that there is systemic racism, certainly within our health care system, and our public health system. and so we can help change the way that providers are trained. we can help connect moms with the provider of their choice, because the data tells us the outcomes are better when there is a linguistic congruency, or cultural congruency. and so you want to make sure that that choice in provider is available to all moms across the country. if i'm on today says that she wants to do law, they're many

places in this country he cannot get, once you cannot get access to a lactation consultant, she can't see a midwife, she can't choose among o b's, that's a real problem in our country right now, and these kinds of solutions investing in what we call the perry natal workforce is how we start to overcome some of the racism, and other issues, structural issues within our health care system. >> a high politicize environment, it is interesting to just see a bill that is just meant to make life better for people, to get us in america to a place where it is safe to get pregnant, it is safe to have a child, and if you cannot carry that child, or choose not to that is also safe. thank you for the work that you are doing, and continue to look on this bill. >> thank you very much. >> congresswoman lauren underwood of illinois. all right, we'll be right back. rsv could cut it short. ♪ rsv is a contagious virus that usually causes mild symptoms

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this weekend's book rubbed feature is the award-winning lawn boy by jonathan epperson. the semiautobiographical coming of age story examines what it's like to be pushed to the margins because of your

cultural heritage, sexual identity, and class status. lawn boy may sound familiar. one parents condemnation of the book and the independent school district went viral, spurring a mass banning of the book and at least 35 different school districts across the united states. and while some districts return to the book to the shelves, long boy still stands as one of america's most banned books today. i'll talk to the author, jonathan upson, about his novel tomorrow for this week's meeting of the velshi banned book club, which you can catch on my show tomorrow at 10 am eastern, right here on msnbc. don't miss it. and that does it for us, now it is time for the last word. my friend jonathan capehart is in for lawrence tonight. good evening my friend. >> good evening. we've got a lot of breaking news to get to in the classified documents case, but i've got to get you while i have you, as someone who is spent so much time in ukraine. get your thoughts on what is happening between the wagner group head prigozhin, and russian president vladimir putin. is this as serious as it? >> russia wouldn't have the success that it's had if not for prigozhin and the wagner group. they're mercenaries, they're