good morning, everybody. from amazon world headquarters in new york, it's good to see you this morning. welcome to special coverage of russia and crisis. it's 7 am and new york, two pm in moscow.

we begin with a stunning reversal of the rebellion and russia. wagner fighters, led by -- getting a rousing send off of a wild 24-hour march on moscow. it began when he announced that man had taken over headquarters and rostov, and it has leading a so-called justice march towards moscow. fighting was reported along the way, and wagner forces got stopped to yell its before moscow. you called off the rebellion and agreed to leave russia. russian residents getting a heroes sendoff. russian officials said he agreed to travel to belarus.

a lot of questions about what happened, and what comes next. analysts now chalk it up to a murky power struggle. >> i don't think it was a stunt. i think it was a mutiny. i think that's the right word. not a coup d'état, a fight among armed forces to take over, but to be loyal to putin with dramatic consequences for undermining stability and the consolidation of russian armed forces. >> questions still remain about the future in exile. >> i suspect his plans unraveled as he started to march his troops toward moscow. i think he saw the writing on the wall, that he was not going to be able to be successful. i think moscow could've brought out a fair amount of firepower, including air power against that convoy.

although he might have agreed to this amnesty agreement, i think he might have, in fact, scientist that warrant. >> and number of developments, including overnight. we have a number of analysts joining us. i want to get right to it and begin with msnbc's -- and london, following developments as closely as everybody else. ali, if you will, what are you hearing coming out of moscow this afternoon and day after that tense and dramatic standoff? >> that's right, yasmin. it was 24 hours of mutiny and mayhem. as suddenly as it all began, it was all over. we are still trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together. it was an extraordinary series of events that unfolded yesterday. in a nutshell, where are we today? the wagner group is probably going to go under the control of the ministry of defense. for ngozi and has been exiled

to belarus. vladimir putin is still in power, but considerably weekends. he has come out of this, his image has been sharp police gates. he's been badly bruised after this entire episode, but still clings to the reigns of power. there are still so many questions as to what is going to happen in russia. it is still a very critical time, yasmin. what's going to happen to propose iain in exile in belarus? is he going to be able to live there freely and safely? we all know vladimir putin loathed betrayal, and is a vengeful person. how safe is he? are his royal members of the wagner group going to join the russian defense ministry, or are they going to cause more problems? is he going to have any square over these 25,000 troops that are still on that border with ukraine? then what happens to the defense ministry? there were a lot of allegations

that precocious put against -- that resonated with the russian people. their children don't have to fight, that he's only doing that to raise his credentials align his own pockets. this was a resume with a lot of -- what we know right now is that there is still a security rayshard bin and moscow. there is still not a counter operation going on and make sure that something like this doesn't happen. there are questions about how is this going to affect the battlefield. there's no doubt that russian forces are dug in deep. it's difficult for the ukrainians to penetrate them. what's going to happen to these 25,000 forces that are doing all the dirty and hard work for putin on the front line, and making gains that the russian army simply wasn't able to do? >> a lot of questions there, to say the least.

that adds up to, this doesn't seem to be over. nbc's aly ever easy for us. thank you, friend. we're still looking at two big headlines this morning of what new york intelligencies knew, and when they knew it. the washington post new york times reporting the rebellion to not take the -- that's a surprise. i want to bring in a special agent for the official threat analysis center. he's also the author of messing with the enemy, surviving in a social media world of hackers, terrorists, russians. always good to talk to you about this. the washington post say in the u.s. picked up intel about this in mid june, at the time that you intel officials -- last one's day. talk to us about how they would know if this in the lead up. also kind of how it all played out. the u.s. didn't really wane. >> yeah.

i think it's important to note that the storm has been brewing for many months. there has been a lot of issues between prigozhin and the russian ministry of defense. you might remember in the february, march timeframe, we were talking about the one year anniversary of the war. russia was pushing a move. that was the prigozhin, wagner group, those doing all the fighting. the russian military was really in reserve. the sort of transition, we can all see it coming. it was very clear. prigozhin was very open about. it what i'd imagine is pretty remarkable, the number of forces that prigozhin was able to pull out of ukraine. i'm sure for everyone that was watching this conflict, they can see that this was starting to happen. this is the second part, was they started pushing towards -- that area was in the interior of russia. it's the military center. i'm sure there were all sorts

of warning signs going off in advance. what is more remarkable is that it really seem to catch the russian government by surprise. i think that's where you see the u.s. government really holding back on what it knew. they did not want to be seen, at least the u.s. and the western countries, nato allies, did not want to be seen as interfering, provoking, or causing this to come to fruition. they didn't want to be tied to it. i think it's not well understood. that can set off a dangerous chain that's for nuclear power. it's remarkable that this did unfold, and that russia seem to be caught flat-footed in this case. putin didn't really have an awareness, it seems, like he didn't have his own troops on the ground to really deal with the situation. >> i'm glad you brought that up, and i do want to kind of reiterate here that this is washington post reporting, this is not nbc news. we have not independently verified some of this reporting that we are talking about. you have brought up the fact that vladimir putin was caught flat-footed, but amidst this russian approach it seems that

u.s. intelligence officials believe that vladimir putin knew something wasn't coming. he had obviously seen the rhetoric coming out of who understood -- and voronezh. i wonder why putin didn't act sooner. >> i think in large part, he didn't have any forces to act. what we're seeing with the russian military is there are stretched to their absolute limit. remember prigozhin forces are folks who have been released from prison. he has been recruited on his own, separate from the russian government. the russian military's overextended and ukraine. they have had to go through multiple rounds of subscription just to get folks onto the field in ukraine. this doesn't leave much in the reserve. there aren't a lot of forces inside russia that can deal with us. another layer to this, which was kind of shown there at the

beginning, prigozhin it's playing to the populace. the populist thread is that the soldiers that tend to be recruiting are correct. it is the rural poor, not the elites children of moscow that are fighting in this fight. when you see people crowding around, taking pictures with them, during a mom in the street, that's a dangerous side for vladimir putin. he would have to essentially put his own troops, which largely come from the same ranks as society, against the popular wagner group that has been going the bulk of the fighting. >> you and i have a lot more to talk about. that specifically, and how it seems as if anything came out at this, it shows the weakness of russian president, vladimir putin, and whether or not his days are numbered. i can't help but think back to 1991 of the attempted coup of new cal gorbachev at this time. that coup was not successful. however, he was out of power for months later. i wonder if the same state will

be for vladimir putin as well? >> it's hard to know. it's been a very close to environment. i would say that putin has done a very traumatic, and very extensive qualitative all rivals. either by silencing and -- there has been a long string of what you would assume or murders. people falling out of buildings and boats. these are all potential challengers and replacements. it's different from 1991. there seems to be no real replacement at this point. i do wonder, with prigozhin what he thought would happen. if he wishes someone who is overly boisterous, trying to retain control of his troops which he thought would be stripped from him, or did he think that there was going to be some part of the russian military that was going to break his direction? it's really hard to know. it seems like it was not

entirely well thought out. at the same point, the inability of putin to really stop, this preemptively know about it, it is a remarkable, and not that dissimilar from past revolutions that we've seen inside russia. the one big this nest be that it's happened and rostov, 1000 kilometers from moscow. one data pro-choice moscow, that's when we see power shift. >> i've got a lot more to talk about with you. i'm going to ask you to stick around. in one very important way, there is a sense of release this morning and how the russian rebellion actually ended. i'm going to speak to clint about that, coming. up later, on it could not have been an easy speech to make. how much weaker, as you just talked about, putin's address to his nation made him look. what comes next for him? we'll be right back. 'll be right back. they work continuously, so you don't have to. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly.

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new question of vladimir putin's hold on power are given this tense standoff with the walking of forces and russia's military leadership on saturday. it forces leaving russia to a sendoff for the citizens there after their leader, prigozhin broker to do with belarus to -- i want to bring in now -- much of the conversation about what we saw take place inside russia was how is this going to impact the war on the ground in ukraine. kelly, talk to us about what you're hearing there now, what we saw take place yesterday surrounding moscow. >> yeah, when i think of ukrainians taking a close eye on that as well, there's a lot of uncertainty about how this will affect the war in ukraine. we haven't heard a word from the kremlin since announcing that deal, to end this extraordinary 36 hour armed rebellion in the country.

a rebellion that ended as strangely as it began. >> the biggest challenge to vladimir putin's many years in power, an unprecedented armed rebellion. clashes readiest -- at days drive from moscow. fighters with the russian military's wagner group, led by yevgeny prigozhin, abandoning ukraine and marching towards the russian capital. in a televised address, president putin calling this rebellion a stab in the back, and treason, betrayal. then, late saturday, an abrupt turn around. a deal apparently brokered by neighboring belarus. prigozhin releasing this audio message. now the moment has cowboy blood may spell. that's why understanding the responsibility for a spill in russian blood on the side, we

are turning back our convoy. early saturday, the group sees the city of rostov-on-don, the military headquarters for russia's war nearby ukraine. armored vehicles taking over the streets. wagner fighters on patrol, pulling out just hours ago. prigozhin's ruthless private army has been key to bolstering forces in ukraine, especially in a symbolic important city of bakhmut, which wagner says it finally captured in may at an estimated cost of tens of thousands of lives. for months, he's criticize russia's defense minister and the man in charge of the worn ukraine. the fight leading to an open insurrection on friday. prigozhin claiming the defense minister ordered this attack on his fighter, is accusing the military of launching the war in ukraine based on lies. early saturday, demanding the military leadership meet him and rostov-on-don, vowing to

march on moscow if they refuse. >> news readers on state tv or calling on wagner fighters to lay down their arms. and russian cities, authorities are tearing down wagner recruited posters. security forces are setting up roadblocks and checkpoints to protect moscow. this bolstered security around the kremlin. this seat of russian power and of the president himself are seriously challenged -- the immediate threat appears to have subsided. the kremlin is saying that none of these fighters will be charged, no one will be held accountable. prigozhin we'll be allowed to go to believers. there's been no sign of him so far this morning, so the questions remain, yasmin, what happens next, how has this affected the, kremlin how badly has it affected vladimir putin, and what could be the outcome for the war in ukraine? will there be a more forceful

reaction, some sort of event to prove that russia is still a strong country? or, will they simply carry on as normal? like i said, ukraine is watching this very, very closely. a lot of unknowns today. >> kelly cobiella, thank you for coming to us from this rainy capital city of kyiv. thank you. clint is back with me to talk about more this. are you as awestruck as i am when i you here at kelly cobiella wrote that piece that she put together for us and saying that nobody will be held accountable? prigozhin we'll be in belarus, right? essentially told he can stay. he is a seeking amnesty in belarus. then you think about how he acts towards people that are treasonous in his mind. does that add up to you? >> it does not.

i think that putin, at this, point these to have some sort of peace so that this didn't spiral out of control but i would imagine at some point with prigozhin just over and belarus, believers in a country that is alive with russia in many ways, the fight in ukraine, i don't know how prigozhin makes it overtime without feeling some sort of brought a retaliation. i would note that both putin and prigozhin come from the roots of st. petersburg after the fall the soviet union. that's how they met up together. prigozhin has worked in done a lot of the dirty work for russia for at least the last two decades on behalf of vladimir putin. that extends quite a way beyond what's going on in ukraine. prigozhin and the wagner group to a lot of operations in africa. prigozhin operates the patriot media group that generates propaganda stations, and

internet research agencies, the troll farm, which was caught interfering in elections. he's got lots of capabilities disposal, it's not clear who will take charge of those elements. i also find it hard to believe that prigozhin wagner troops are going to fold themselves into the russian military and fight as one unified body. i think this really speaks to the future of the ukraine fights. what will it be like when you have such a break in the unity of command? when you don't have properly resourced troops, and now you have the ranks at the time that the ukrainian military is really, i, think there's a big impact and looking for. >> quite quickly here, do you think that there is a sense of belief that russia's nuclear arsenal is not in the hands of a mercenary actor? >> that's definitely the case. i would note that it was probably unlikely that prigozhin would be able to get a hold of those nuclear weapons, or be able to do those things.

it is held pretty tightly by the russian military. at the same point, that is a dangerous situation should vladimir putin suddenly lose power. who would take over? in some ways, with the soviet union bell, it was not entirely safe. there was some sort of china command that took over, and things phone to place. if putin were to suddenly vanished, when you have nuclear weapons at their disposal, there's lots of military units or intelligence services, would be in a dangerous state for some time before we know it's going on. >> clint watts for. thank, you appreciate it. coming, up how the action has taken in the last 24 hours have impacted the stability of the russian regime, and why the united states's allies are bracing for what may lie ahead. g for what may lie ahead and save on every perk. sadie is moving to the big city and making moves on her plan, too. apple one, on. now she's got plenty of entertainment for the whole ride. finally there! hot spot, on.

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it is 2:25 in the afternoon and moscow. in the early afternoon, there are new questions are emerging about vladimir putin's power. this is after mercenary leader called off a -- in a new deal by the kremlin, will prigozhin go to exile in belarus. the kremlin also said they will not prosecute those who took part in a rebellion. i want to speak to -- the vice president at the u.s. institute of --

good to talk to you once again. it seems like we always meet during times like this. do you think back to the last 24 to 36 hours and where the russian president's power was and where it is now, and what do you see? >> clearly diminish, yasmin. exactly what you said. he has shown himself, and he has shown his military power, and even his political control, political grip on the nation, to be weekend. he clearly blanked in this confrontation. prigozhin linked in this confrontation. he, putin, comes out much weaker from this. other people will notice, other people in russia will notice. you've made the point a couple times, it's not just prigozhin who has opposed to putin.

i think this has expose some real weakness on the part of the president. >> you've talked about blinking right? you think of the statement that was made yesterday morning, or overnight, i should say. morning and moscow. you saw his body language, how he walked back and forth. he looked very unstable in that statement. at the time he called it a quote unquote, armed rebellion. he never named prigozhin by name, but he did, in fact, call him a traitor. arguably, and that moment, putin has never looked so weak. do you believe he is regretting that state right now? how does he clean this up for the public? >> no one knows what's in his head. we've tried to get in his head. people who are much smarter than i am have focused on vladimir putin for a long time, they can't predict what he'll do. you are absolutely right. that statement, that

presentation, those actions, that decision to allow prigozhin off the hook, clearly, as you said, prigozhin called a traitor, and he's letting him go to exile. i'm sure that prigozhin is worried about a safety developers. well i versus an interesting place to. the people in belarus are not supportive of president putin. they're certainly not supportive of their presidents, -- , who apparently negotiated this agreement. belarus is an interesting place that prigozhin gets to go to. i think the president putin has shown himself to be weekends. it's not clear what his thoughts are about the statement. >> i'm glad you brought up belarus in the way you dead. -- he has had a two decades-long relationship with prigozhin is there a sense that a deal was

made to rise to power in belarus, and if not, when you think about the russians sure him on, and prigozhin knows how vladimir putin reacts to treasonous acts that he can consolidate power overseas to then reason and the type of rebellion over he carried out over the last 36 hours. >> that's a possibility that he prigozhin might do this again from belarus. i doubt if the thought is to allow him to take alexander lukashenko power and dollars, but you bring up a good point. there are other forces that there are forces outside of russia that alexander lukashenko are posed to putin. some of which have already taken military action at a smaller scale against putin, attacking from ukraine, where they're based. these are russian forces now, russian citizens who have alexander lukashenko formed into two different military and

political units, trained in ukraine, and belgrade, you've reported this as well a couple weeks ago so it's not just prigozhin who was challenged. there are other challenges to putin, and they've taken notice of the weakness. they've demonstrated weakness of president putin. >> the jinx and president putin 's arm are. that's why there was great to talk to you, thank you. coming up next, everyone, the latest word from washington on the -- in moscow. we'll be right back. l be right back. really? get a quote at progressivecommercial.com.

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take a look at these morning newspapers from around the world, dominated by russia headlines, of course. australia's harrell's reporting russia is on the brink. lamont in france, the leader of wagner goes into rebellion. in germany, the revolt against putin. and in italy, russian roulette. the times russia are humiliated by military. -- forced to march on russia capitol. a short live revolt. the daily mail reports, uk security forces are asking the question many are asking today, as putin robbed coup leader to quit russia? that's how the world has portrayed that snapshot in history this weekend. now the reaction for the biden administration, lawmakers on

capitol hill want to get straight to -- julia who is standing by for us in moscow. let me start with you and what we're hearing for the white house this morning? >> i think what's really clear here is that the administration is allowing the diplomacy to the talking here. they don't want to get out ahead of us, they don't want to comment on this given the fact that given developments we saw in realtime on friday night, and all day yesterday. instead, the president, his secretary of state, his secretary of defense, all of them have mostly been working the phones, talking to key allies and partners. that's why you saw the president talk to the leaders of germany, france, the uk yesterday, and then in the very short read out that the white house distributed afterwards, they essentially said that they discussed the ongoing situation in russia but that most importantly, they all wanted to reaffirm the -- in ukraine. that's the bottom line message here from the biden administration. what you're seeing here is yesterday, the president left the white house to go to camp

david where he was accompanied by his national security adviser, jake sullivan, who actually had a preplanned trip to copenhagen on friday that he grabbed to as he'd describe the things happening and russia. as soon as this bubbles up, u.s. officials had their eyebrows, raise they were watching. the alarm bells started to go off. that is why he decided to hang back. that is why we saw similar cancellations from somebody from the joint chief chairman in the middle east yesterday. that really tells you have furiously they were taking it. that's why they were gathering intelligence. they've really been trying to assess how this all happened, in that abrupt reversal that you've been talking about, of, course and to try to get a better sense before trying to get ahead of this, your comments on it. we are going to hear from the secretary of state blinken, who's on the sunday show later this morning, for the first relayed ministry of response all of this should probably reiterate that message of support for ukraine. i think a sane.

they will continue to have -- which he's had with other counterparts. to put this in the focus of it's too soon to say, especially from a u.s. official perspective, and draw any conclusions about what this will mean, ultimately, for the war in ukraine, or for president putin's hold on power. >> that's a relief that the senate quickly, monica. >> we're watching it so closely, and knowing that the volatility could turn into something far more violent, potentially, and with the great geopolitical interest, of course. it was a bit of a sense that now this has decreased, we can take a step back to get more information. still saying, we don't know what happens next. >> exactly right. thank you. want to go to jewel gesture on capitol hill. cameron, what's happening when it comes to lawmakers. julia, talk to us. i know a lot of lawmakers have been reacting, especially those that are on the committee and

senate, talk us through what we're hearing this morning. >> yes. we've noticed some common refrain sarong lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. you mentioned some of the more powerful ones, like the senate intel committee, vice chair -- leading a bit of a topic of conversation among how this will impact china, and if president xi is watching this unfold, as kind of a warning sign with his alliance with russia, and putin. another thing that i see from lawmakers is reminding everybody that's in this case, the enemy of our enemy is still our enemy. it's worth noting that this is someone who the house in december 2020 passed a nonbinding resolution condemning prigozhin and the walking or group as a threat to democracy a national security of u.s. allies and partners around the globe. beyond that, there is putin's

beginning grasp on power, we're hearing that from several lawmakers. here's a bit of a taste of what we've been hearing across the board. >> it's a good thing that there is de-escalation and some resolution. the last thing the united states, or the world needs, as an unstable russia, a nuclear power that could devolve into civil war. >> i don't see it as a tipping point for putin going down, but i think it's an important indicator that the emperor is not worn a close. >> putin is weakened by this. prigozhin it has been weakened by this. the russian military, they get a huge morale -- due to this issue. the school is shows that putin as weak. putin has complete control over his mercenaries. he says that it's a very good tell for where -- it's going to be in the future. putin really does have very little time left as leader of

russia. >> as for the world of congress, itself and all of this. lawmakers are saying they want to ensure that they are prepared to help ukraine with whatever it needs to capitalize on this moment, take advantage of this chaos in russia. they were major partners and allies to ensure that ukraine has all the aid that it needs in the coming weeks and months. yasmin. >> we'll talk about that in just a moment. thank you so much. the word in ukraine is getting talked about the southern uprising and in the wagner group and it's stunning reversal. we'll be right back. ht back.

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military members behind the stunning rebellion and russia are returning to filth camps in ukraine after their leader struck a deal with the kremlin. now there are growing questions about how this inter-strife could affect russia's war inside ukraine. joining me now is a member of the queen parliament, and with more on, this it is great you to talk to you -- thanks for joining us on this. let me get your reaction, when things were playing out yesterday, the uprising, and the abrupt deal that was subsequently made, how are ukrainians reacting, how are you reacting to those events? >> well, i will tell you, this is the first hour since this was, unfolding i did try to keep my head as cool as possible, it did not seem, real so was thinking this -- what have we've been doing for the last 16 months. this is our, job we should not

get disturbed with whatever is happening in russia. it did look hopeful? yes it did. the dominion any way we should -- know it didn't. things started changing when putin addressed the russian nation, and he claimed the mutiny, and that progression is a traitor, they started investigations against him and so on and so forth. that is when it became much more real for everyone in ukraine, yet again, we are realizing things might go different, and they did, quite unexpectedly and the mutiny asked and then. that is the claim that it ended. does this mean it is the? and well, it is hard to say. it does say, it is regardless of how this will unfold, it did show it is the biggest humiliation of putin here suffered in all his career. he has allowed for 25,000 military march 200 kilometers

towards moscow, those guys killed several russian pilots, shut down several helicopters in one plane, which did not go, up not despite russian soldiers, and after that putin himself had to agree to renegotiate with the guy who basically killed his own soldiers. that is basically showing his weakness. and this weakness just goes unnoticed by the russians, who are fighting against us here in ukraine. >> let's talk about, ukraine and what is happening inside ukraine right now. there has been a conversation that ukraine could really capitalize on this moment, i follow -- the adviser to the minister of internal affairs of ukraine on twitter, and he writes, this, morning about what happens next, and number six on his, list he says ukraine's a few steps closer to reestablishing its territory integrity, including crimea, do you believe that as well? >> well, it is really hard to predict what is going to have, been one thing we know for sure

is that this is not going to be a -- there is no way that in a single counter we will be able to take back all of our, land that needs to be understood by everybody, particularly by our allies, no matter how brave our soldiers are. the russian army is just too, big and it is such a big territory of ukraine, it is simply impossible to take over in a single -- yet, there are some progress that is being, made also to the south of, ukraine then also on the, east ukrainian forces have actually yesterday asked this promotion affair was unfolding, ukraine forces reported that they have recaptured the village which was captured by russians in 2014. this is the first case where we have actually regained control of the territory which of the russian control for nine years. so, there is progress, but it is very, slow and the -- cost us dearly in the -- army separating unfortunately. >> many of us have been

watching and wondering what the off-ramp would be for ukrainians, the and to this war, that seemed as if it was never ending, could you see it and now with what is happened to the last 24 hours? >> i can see that the and over there, and to ukraine, i can't however predicted whether this and will come. will russia's regime -- will putin's regime fall? yes. i think after what have been -- that it cannot predict. and, that is probably the most difficult. on a political, effort but also on a personal, lover it is very difficult to predict this. >> we thank you. we wish you the best of luck. >> thank you very much. >> coming up, next everybody, some insight into -- how might have been some 24 hours, ago and what may be to come. coming right back. ming right back. and save on every perk.

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had less from around the world, now here's what folks are waking up to in toronto. they are reading today in the start, russian rebellion defused. jerusalem, post-rebel rebellion's turn back to communist a moscow. i want to bring in -- lecture on -- russian warfare, she has worked in, georgia, moldova, ukraine and the baltic states including -- -- great to talk to you about the, stuff do you feel as if putin made a phone call to belarusian president lukashenko, and said broker this deal for me? how do you think that went down? >> it is a really interesting question, because i think what we have all been focused on is this perception that putin is weakened by the events that happened, i think the real -- what is so interesting about putin, it is, he solved this

problem himself, prigozhin needs this mutiny, he is by far the worst option if you are weighing the two. this is a guy who has assassinated, by or had people with sledgehammers, he has called for more death in ukraine for a worse war on ukraine. and when this guy rises up against putin, putin reaches out to a ally, and to defuse the situation on his own without needing intervention from other russian institutions. so i think there's a lot going on in the dynamic of power, in russia, outside russia, and we need a lot more time to fully pick apart. >> i want to go back to something you just, said we're you said okay, it seems as if the russian regime has been destabilized, right, but moscow, they are with, us what do you mean by that? what are those answers look like? what should people be mulling? >> i think for so long, we have looked for answers to our russia problem in moscow, and

they are not there. they were not there yesterday, they will not be there the next time the show starts in moscow, they are in our own policy decisions. we have talked about, this event you and i a lot since the beginning of this most recent face of the russian invasion in ukraine, where we can create boundaries on increasingly dangerous russian machine is in the victory in ukraine, and how nato is redefining security for europe and the united states. and, we really need to look at that critical opportunity now, and not be looking at the fault lines in, russia and picking them apart, wondering who is the best guy, and the chair of a system that is attacking his favors. but, how we can shape that environment ourselves. >> we have talked a lot about how putin's weekend, this part as well, is he more dangerous? >> i think the system in which he holds the orbiter rule right now, he loves all these dots fighting against each, other and views his continuity of

power as being able to manage the dynamics between that i think that system is the stabilizing, and, it has been for sometime. i think it is at a critical point, i think that should be viewed by all of us in the, west particularly in washington, not just as the risk and threat of a destabilizing, russia which is sort of a trap we have been in for years now, but in the opportunity of a different russia, and to have a different relationship between the united states and russia, and have a different relationship between russia and the neighbors it is continually threatening to attack. >> a different relationship with russia would mean -- and so, would you go so far as to say putin's destabilized enough, that his days are, numbered or not yet? >> i wouldn't say that yet, i think it is a decline where we are now, but i doesn't mean actions can't be, taken things can't happen. i think the prigozhin mutiny shows that action within russia is possible in a way that people were not that focused on

a year ago, six months ago, and i think that does create different lines of opportunity in russia for russians and others to take, but, again i think for us right now, we need to be focused on shaping how that russian decisions are being made, the same way they try to shape our decisions from the outside, but we need to shape that by victory in ukraine, and achieving as much as we can in our own security pulls right now. >> always good to remind folks of how russia has repeatedly tried to shape our decisions in our elections inside this country, molly, as always, i love talking to you, you good have you on this morning. >> great to see you. >> that is going to do it for me on the special edition of msnbc reports, i will see back here today to the four pm eastern right here on msnbc. please join me again, we have a lot more to talk about. my friend jonathan capehart continues our coverage right now. >> breaking news, russia