>> good morning, it is sunday, june 25th. i am chris jansing. ali velshi is in eastern europe, on his way to ukraine to report on the impact of the events on the war there, that is where we begin this morning, with the greatest threat to vladimir putin's 23 year rule, it appears that threat appears to be over for now. the questions remain about the impact on the authority, the country's defense and the war in ukraine. the under belly initiated but yevgeny prigozhin, leader of the wagner mercenary force who has been fighting on russia's behalf in ukraine, and it in the middle of a reported march to moscow, with no bloodshed. but it has created ongoing tensions and raised serious

questions after valid claim to have captured the city of rostov on don. it ended quickly, less than one day after it began after a deal brokered by pollution president alexander lukashenko. an ally of putin who also has ties to prigozhin. according to the kremlin, but i go asian and his forces will be out to belarus, and charges against him for taking part in an armed rebellion, charges against them will be dropped. now they're putin nor prigozhin have seen or heard from him publicly since the deal was announced. joining me now in london, nbc news correspondent ali arouzi, and in kyiv ukraine, chief correspondent kelly cobiella, and wall street journalist and simmons. good to have all of you here. so ali, the russian foreign ministry said yesterday that the country remains in support of president vladimir putin, but bogosian lost the severn town of rostov with armored

tanks in vehicles, to cheering crowds. if you are in the kremlin, does that of support for the moodiness or their leader, does that worry you? >> definitely, chris. this is an extraordinary 24 hours of mayhem and mutiny. and as you have said, as suddenly as it all began, it ended. it is not really and it, it leaves a lot of questions unanswered, and this very complex puzzle that is russia right now. if you are vladimir putin, you are not feeling particularly strong as you are maybe last week. as soon as this whole incident happened, vladimir putin came on to tv, visibly angry, calling prigozhin a traitor, stabbing him in the back, and that he will be punished. both an hours, a deal was brokered, prigozhin was given exile in belarus, troops went back to their bases and vladimir putin was a very weakened man.

he felt very strongly about what happened, but his actions were also not particularly strong. he was talking about punishing this man, but a man who drove his tanks within 200 miles of moscow, see me need to get in his way. if you look back on russian history, this is not how things unfolded with a strongman in russia, when there was an attempted coup in 1991 on gorbachev, or the attempt of that coup, sent to jail, long sentences. same thing happened in 1993 with boris yeltsin. but look at the most serious challenge to putin, his 23 year rainiest day. and the perpetrators got off scot-free. in fact, members of the wagner group were told they could join the ministry of defense if they wanted, rather than the initial threat of punishment. vladimir putin is not sitting pretty in the kremlin right now, he has been exposed, there are not a questions about how he can rule with an iron fist

moving forward, how much support he will have. especially at a time when his move to rostov 16 months ago was meant to be a three-day operation, it turned into a long slog by the russian military, they have been embarrassed by the valiance of the ukrainians. his top military brass have been accused of corruption and mismanagement. so he is in a very vulnerable position. and there are questions about his judgment, putting someone like pushing into power, giving him so much money, ammunition and for this spectacularly backfiring display, a lot of questions about vladimir putin's judgment. >> so an, can we quantify or is it too early to quantify how weakened putin is as a result of this? >> it is still quite early, to be honest. there's no indication that putin's government will crash

tomorrow, but without a doubt, this is the most serious challenge, to the rule of vladimir putin, so many questions have been raised, one of the most important is whether or not the kremlin's right to -- >> they stated very much intertwined with this leader. one of the remarkable things, is how prigozhin was able to make its way to southern roscoe towards moscow, said the last moment that he was able to have progress, saying he did not want to see blood spilled. the other important factor here is the fact that alexander lukashenko was called in to mediate and that is a further humiliating in the way for vladimir putin, because lukashenko in many ways is a junior partner in this relationship, and gave lukashenko quite a bit of leverage. going forward, the last 24 to

48 hours will be critical in terms of seeing how this plays out, where is prigozhin, does he go to belarus, who goes with him? what will happen to putin? where is putin? he was seen yesterday, not again today. he was on a program on kremlin television this morning, but that was pre-recorded on june 23rd. it's a really tense period that lies ahead, it is when we are vladimir putin has been exposed. he will reclaim the narrative going forward, he's always tried to portray himself as being invincible, now the russian people have seen that's clearly not the case. >> when you consider the history of both prigozhin and putin, the misinformation i guess, saying what is useful to them, would you expect in the next 24 to 48 hours that we would hear from putin, we will get his spin on things, what do

you make of the fact that he hasn't said anything since this all played out? >> i think it is likely we might hear from the president of russia in the next 12 to 24 hours, where he does try to tell people that this situation has been defused. i am still in charge, at the helm. we still need your support. you will note in his address to the nation yesterday, he really did pull at the heartstrings, at the patriotism of the russian elite. he told them that this is a setback to the russian military, to the nation, to you and me. you need to support the motherland. he also do examples from history, from the russian revolution, and basically tried to say, we don't want to go down that path again. and similarly important, something about how russians

react inside moscow, there is calm, people go about their business. personally, there's also a lot of chatter on social media about what all of this means. >> so kelly, early this morning, ukrainian president zelenskyy talked about what he thinks it means. he appeared to take a job at putin saying the man from the kremlin is obviously very afraid, probably hiding somewhere. he knows what he is afraid of, because he created the threat himself. so what are you hearing from the folks in the ukrainian hierarchy, as well as someone scheme self, what the likely impact is on the war and how it is resonating on the ground in kyiv? >> well it is interesting. people are watching very closely, watching moscow very closely, wondering what the next move will be, wondering whether there will be some sort of larger scale attack on ukraine, perhaps to divert

attention to what has just happened in the past 24, 48 hours in moscow, and in russia, when this first started playing out, almost a sense of celebration, euphoria here, talking about at the very least, it might be a distraction for the kremlin, on the ground on the way from the war here, as things played out, as we saw with this deal coming forward, as the kremlin announced the deal and said it would not have any impact on the military operation in ukraine, the mood shifted and the reality was again that this was going to be a long slog, that they will still be, there is still a lot of work to do on the front line for example. in fact, when this is all playing out, chris, the deputy defense minister said that they

were offensive operations on all fronts, progress made on all fronts. so that is the kind of thinking you are seeing here. overnight, once again, russian missiles fell on ukraine. the feeling on the ground is almost to the sense that we are back at square one, we still have a word to deal with. >> kelly cobiella, ali arouzi, and simmons, thank you all of. you don't bring in nbc molest, mccaffrey, four star general who served in the u.s. army of more than 30 years. always good to see you, general. let's talk about the status of the ukraine, as you well know, that major counteroffensive in ukraine, what effect do you think this will have on the battlefield with this, given essentially, this revealed within russia's fighting forces, it's already motivated ukrainians and giving them an extra sense of momentum? >> the ukrainians have

absolutely superb military leadership. we have proof that, with nato equipped modernized brigades, not been committed to battle. but the russian armed forces are not affected by all of this. the most important branch of the russian armed forces, their armed forces, air force, the russian navy, none of this was affected. it would be easy to overstate the impact that the wagner group really had in the battle. essentially, 30,000 casualties and lit up with a diminished force of maybe 25,000. they had brutal discipline, with these convicts, sociopaths to fight. i think the ukrainians are still facing the bulk of their national security threat. the interesting thing for most of this is that putin right now,

has been in real trouble. 1.4 million people in the security forces when the stepped in, to squash this rebellion. major headquarters in rostov-on-don went quiet when this was taken over by the wagner group. simply it is astonishing. as we were talking, the chinese, indians, brazilians, they are trying to reassess how likely putin can survive much longer. prigozhin was not a member of the club, did not go to any of the right schools. he did not have a history of anything but small time crime. so the question is who else out there right now is more likely to be a replacement for putin? >> so to your point of possible survival or not, president zelenskyy's chief of staff posted on twitter, i will read it here, a russian civil war

was the only possible outcome to putin's unlawful invasion of ukraine. history shows us all the caters eventually collapse under the weight of their contradictions and their hubris. so i take it you don't think that is necessarily wishful thinking, is it still to your mind, on the table putin does not survive this? >> well, in the long run, it really does not look very good for him. his international partners are going to be very hesitant to go back him up with new military technology. he is in an economic disaster zone. the only thing he ever had was energy to seal the world, europeans have walked away from that. it looks as if he's in a very weakened position. the internal threat was the biggest threat to him, his army did not step up and squash, they were by the way some air attacks on prigozhin's colin headed north, but by and large,

prigozhin i think was a great communicator and had a pr sense about him, the man is disguising the fact that he really was an outlier in this system. the threat to putin is still there, but it's more likely inside moscow than it is really bunch of threats. by the way, putin's got to go get prigozhin and kill him, that can't ever be erased, the notion that this was made up, that nato really wasn't involved is so damaging to the way the russian people view putin and his leadership. he's going to find new military leaders. the ministry of defense and commander yeah, of the armed forces how do you go, he needs to go from saying find some more that this is effective military a real threat leaders. >> to let's go to yes, how exile do, you know, you go from

and a matter of less than saying this is a real 24 hours. threat to, general mccaffrey, we let's go thank, you it's always great to have you exile on the program. them in a matter of. coming up, what the united states will do, and when. new reporting indicates american intelligence officials did know about prigozhin's plans day before it happened in russia. polling happen this morning. our first polling since donald trump faced a 33 count federal indictment. his legal troubles do seem to be affecting the race, but perhaps not in the what you'd expect. looking into these numbers ahead. -- is back in 60 seconds. is back in 60 seconds. and now she has myplan, the game-changing new plan that lets her get exactly what she wants and save on every perk. sadie is moving to the big city and making moves on her plan, too. apple one, on. now she's got plenty of entertainment for the whole ride. finally there! hot spot, on. and she's fully connected before her internet is even installed. (sadie) hi, mom! (mom) how's the apartment? (vo) introducing myplan. get exactly what you want, only pay for what you need.

act now and get it for $25 when you bring your phones. it's your verizon. the subway series? it's the perfect menu lineup. just give us a number, we got the rest. number three? the monster. six? the boss. fifteen? titan turkey. number one? the philly. oh, yeah, you probably don't want that one. look, i'm not in charge of naming the subs. frustrated by skin tags? dr. scholl's has the breakthrough you've been waiting for. the first fda-cleared at-home skin tag remover clinically proven to remove skin tags safely in as little as one treatment. this morning, new questions about what exactly american officials knew about the chaotic situation in russia, ahead of the now reported rebellion against vladimir putin. in just the last few minutes, according to nbc news, u.s. intelligence agencies collected information that yevgeny prigozhin have been planning a

challenge to russian senior military leaders. according to a source familiar. u.s. spy agencies observed the wagner group amassing some weapons, and detected other indications that prigozhin was prone to make a move, although the data was not definitive. nbc news has also learned congressional leaders were briefed on the matter last week. joining us now, nbc news white house correspondent, monica alba's. monica, tell us more about what the white house knew, when they knew it, and how they reacted once informed. >> that reporting that you just laid out there, chris, is significant because it gives you a sense of what the white house and biden ministration was already closely tracking before this really exploded more into the public sphere. we've got a couple of hints, and clues, that maybe something like this was bubbling up because national security adviser, jake sullivan, was the post of let it copenhagen on friday to participate in some international talks about the war in ukraine. really early on in the day on

friday, he canceled that trip, i'm told, to stay behind to monitor what was happening in russia. now we are learning and getting a better picture of how this all went down in the last couple of days in the sense that congressional leaders were briefed, as you pointed, out but also, that means senior officials here at the white house and throughout the administration were also read in on some of this intelligence about what forego xin was planning. although, again, not all the intelligence was confirmed. they did know exactly what was going to happen. they knew the wagner group was amassing these forces and weapons for some possible action, which we saw resulted in that armed rebellion. but, even all of that, despite all of that what the white house knew over the last couple of days, they've been very careful and what they can say publicly here given the fast moving developments yesterday. that is why this white house, the president, even if given the opportunity to take questions, or make some kind of public statement, they really opted to let the diplomacy hear speak for itself.

that's why they're talking about these calls the president had yesterday with the leaders of germany, france, in the uk. secretary of state blinken, and secretary of defense austin, essentially, up untold, have been working the homes all day talking to critical counterparts in this real coordination with allies what to reaffirmed support for ukraine. that's the public message for today. that's what we've seen mostly out of the administration because, again, they don't want to get ahead of what is still, and their view, a very volatile situation and russia. chris. >> nbc,'s monica alba, at the white house for us. thank you. reports indicate congressional leaders were briefed on the wagner buildup days before the rebellion began. i'll speak with a ranking member the armed service committee, representative adam smith from washington. that's, next on chris jansen reports. nsen reports.

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about yevgeny prigozhin plan for military action against senior russian intel of individuals, and when did they know it? according to a source familiar with the matter, u.s. intelligence officials and foreign to military and congressional leaders last week about the possibility of conflict in russia after obtaining intelligence in mid june. joining me now, representative adam smith, democrat of washington, and breaking member of the house armed services committee. it's always good to see you. thank you. after what has been, to say the least, a volatile weekend, were you surprised by what happens, and were you surprised by how quickly it was over? >> i was surprised by how quickly it was over. i think we all kind of saw this happening, the conflict between putin and prigozhin, it can also be between prigozhin and putin's military leaders. this is been going on for sometime. the rhetoric has been pretty stream for a while. you can see a break coming. i think the great unanswered question at this point isn't so

much why prigozhin started it but why he stopped it. what is the deal that he made with lukashenko. he had to see this coming, he had to know it was going to be a big conflict in russia. to shut it off like that, it would be interesting to see why he did that. the other key to this is, you have the vibe here with prigozhin, but who else in the kremlin or russian powers circles are looking to push putin out? maybe prigozhin was counting on some help there that didn't come. it beatrice to see how this plays out now that he's been, at least temporarily, moved out of the situation. >> can you quantify this, congressman? how vulnerable do you think putin is, how endanger is his long presidency? >> you see, i tend to be a bit of a skeptic on that. i don't think that he is as weekend as that appears. i mean, he's always had, since the war started and didn't go the way he wanted it to,

there's been a lot of grumbling on a whole series of -- both from hard-liners, and from people who would like to see russia go in a totally different direction. putin has locked down on the levels of power in russia. even if there is a lot of dissatisfaction with him, who is going to push him out? he has similar to some degree with assad in the revolution started against him in 2011. a lot of people were saying, well, assad's gotta go. okay. who is going to push him? who what is the power forcing mechanism that is going to force him out? i asked the same question about putin right now. he is certainly not going to wake up one day and say, okay, yeah, i'm not doing a great job. i'm out. someone is going to have to force him out. i don't see who that somebody is within russia right now. >> in the meantime, you have the ongoing war. you recently said that a ukrainian offensive could be moscow's forces, back of them at the bargaining table by the

fall. of course that was before they were told. how do you think this changes the scenario for ukraine? >> well, i saw mccaffrey's comments earlier on the show. he hit it really well. it doesn't change that much. it does weaken russia a little bit. if nothing else, the wagner group. i agree with general mccaffrey on the success. they were far for the most effective fighters in the world, but there were 25,000 of them. they were thrown everything they could at ukraine. it seems likely at this point that they will be sidelined to one degree or another. i know they're supposed to just now sign up for the russian military. seen as they were fighting each other, i think they'd be a lot of tension there. it will weaken russia to some degree. doesn't seem like it's going to be dramatic. i mean, the plan, the hope, and praying, are there -- that we have trained and equipped. that the ukrainians to put

together. that is believed to be fairly effective and well equipped. there are ability to punch through the defenses in the south in the east, in the next couple of months, that's what's going to be key. the russian forces are clearly weekend. i don't know that this particular coup attempt, if you will, weakens them significantly. >> putin had, as you, know what is it now, two days ago, found to punish what he described as an act of treason. how do you go from that to claiming that your highest goal is to avoid bloodshed? do you agree that prigozhin is a dead man walking? >> well that's really the interesting thing here. to date, putin has been very aggressive about taking out people who disagree with him. a lot of russians followed off the balconies. that's happened a lot. you would think based on what's happened in the past, i, mean just a minor insult from much

less attacking putin's troops, you would think prigozhin would need to be dealt with in that way. i think putin may understand prigozhin's popularity, and if he took him out, it would be a bigger problem. he might murder the guy and have his followers become a bigger problem then prigozhin hanging out in belarus. i could be wrong, because this is going against type, to predict that putin will not actually take out prigozhin. i think in this case it might be the smarter move for him to let that go. it might create more problems for him if he got across. >> democratic representative, adam smith of washington. thank you so much for being with us on the sunday. if getting prigozhin has dominated the news for the last 24 hours, what exactly is the man behind the arm rebellion in russia? nbc's richard engel will explain all of that for us next. plus, still to come, in americas former president, once again addressing his recent federal indictment during a campaign speech just last

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man who lived a short term rebellion against the russian government. his name, as you likely know by now, it is yevgeny prigozhin, founder of the walk no group, a mercenary force based in russia. he previously had close, if fraught, ties with vladimir putin. that is until this week. chief foreign correspondent, richard engel, has more on what we know about prigozhin and what drove him to turn against the kremlin. >> a senior u.s. official tells nbc news that the best way to understand what's happening now in russia is a mafia power struggle. yevgeny prigozhin is a cop show. amid level, in till now, loyal soldier that has risen through the ranks by doing special

tasks for his boss. president putin. first, it was food. prigozhin only a chain of restaurants, including the new haven and st. petersburg. putin and his early team uses a hang out, earning him the nickname, putin chef. over time, he learned to cater to putin's other needs. most americans know prigozhin from the disinformation on their social media feeds. he found it about far, of the internet research agency that according to the justice department so doubts about the legitimacy of the 2016 election, highlighted racial tensions in the united states, it promoted donald trump. in 2022, prigozhin reinvented himself again. and to a commander of a mercenary army, the wagner group. supplementing russian troops in ukraine, which were failing on the battlefield. he recruited thousands of convex, promising pardons in exchange for frontline service. thousands were sent to their

deaths, and according to the few who managed to escape, they were shot if they attempted to retreat. i asked ukrainian president zelenskyy about the group earlier this month. >> how do you describe wagner and what it's doing on the ground here? >> [interpreter] they are mercenaries interests. their killers, he said. prigozhin is also wretch. he uses his private army to prop up dictators in africa. in particular the president of the central african republic. in exchange, taking gold and blood diamonds worth half a billion dollars a year according to diplomats. with money, power, and in armed force, prigozhin has made enemies. he accuses russia's defense minister an army chief, driven by jealousy and treason, of denying wagner fighters ammunition. now, he wants revenge. after one of the most dramatic days in russia and decades, prigozhin reportedly agree to

some sort of exile in belarus. why? was it his only way to survive and keep his lucrative businesses in africa? or, as he just biding time? it's hard to believe that this murky power struggle is over. >> nbc news, richard bangle, thank you for that. up next, we'll turn our attention to the race of the white house and new nbc news poll which reveals how the federal indictment is affecting the former president and primary race. also, a potential general matchup against president biden. biden. r heritage is ingrained in our skin. and even when we metamorphosize into our new evolved form, we carry that spirit with us. because you can take alfa romeo out of italy. but you best believe, you can't take the italy out of an alfa romeo.

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>> when i was president, the world was stable and calm because america was respected and strong. now, as we see in russia and all of these other places, this whole world is on fire. this world is on fire. before i even arrive at the oval office, i will have the horrible war between russia and ukraine totally settled. i'd have it done in 24 hours. >> his followers, you can hear them clapping their, or responding to his promises, and they're not paid off, but rather energized by the indictments against him. brand-new nbc news polling just released this morning show the boost with his base with the republican primary field. the majority, 51% of republican primary voters, polled by nbc news, believe that donald trump is our choice amid the gop candidates. that's a 5% increase compared to nbc's poll in april. this is before he was indicted

by special prosecutor jack smith in the classified documents case. look at that, desantis, pence, haley, all down. joining me now to break down our findings in the latest poll, nbc news political correspondent, mark murray. mark, like so much about donald trump, the impacts of this indictment defies all previously believed to lhasa politics. tell us a little bit more about this new polling and what it tells us about how republicans are reacting. >> yeah, chris, i think the simplest explanation of why don't know trump's numbers have increased in this national republican or presidential primary is that republican primary voters really don't carol that much about the indictment. we asked a question, do you have concerns. 77% of republican primary voters say that they don't have concerns, or maybe just minor concerns. that's versus 55% of all registered voters who say,, yes i have major or moderate concerns about the most recent indictment. chris, one of the things that really stands out to me is just

a drop in altitude for ron desantis. you mentioned donald trump's numbers going up five points since april, well, desantis's numbers have gone down nine points since april. that really does kind of stand out. a time in which donald trump has had so much negative tension around him. now an important, no, chris this is a national poll. as we do know, the republican presidential primaries began in places like iowa, new hampshire, nevada, and south carolina. and how the races go there, remember, that's for a lot of these candidates are advertising, including ron desantis, how that race goes does impact the overall national race. this is just a national snapshot with the situation looks like about 5 to 6 months before we get into iowa and new hampshire. >> mark murray, thank you for that. i'm joined now by hayes brown, columnist and editor of msnbc daily. rick wilson, former gop strategist, cofounder of the lincoln project, and host of the podcast, the enemies list.

you're going to get to trump in just a minute, but can we talk about this precipitous drop for ron desantis. what is going on? >> a couple of factors there. one being that as the gop field expands, people are looking for someone other than trump, they're looking around a bit more. i feel like that has to be a factor here. also, desantis had a really terrible rollout for his campaign. i mean, you had the failed twitter launched, you had just him, i feel like he's been doing okay and retail politics, but given the way he's treated the press over the years, as the enemy, he's done himself no favor and getting positive coverage moving forward. it's just really hindered his campaign. he is now, you can see him start to go after trump. you see him start to try to really separate himself. for someone who's running to the right of trump, it's really fascinating how even people who are likely gop voters, who consider themselves very

conservative, still support trump over desantis. trump is really sort of shifted the way the gop primary base has thought about what it means to be conservative in a way that is not helping desantis right now. >> is there anything that surprises you about those numbers for donald trump? there was one school of thought, , right going into the season, that if there were escalating numbers of legal problems for him, it might start to have a cumulative effect. apparently it has, but on the other direction. >> you, know at this point, i have to hark back to the lessons of 2016. my former republican friends and colleagues would say, oh, well, he insulted john mccain. this will be what gets him. he had the vendors, this get him. he talked about crappy women, this is what gets them. these things in the republican base are now assets, not liabilities. they are a post rule of law party. they do not believe in the rule of law, or justice that should apply to donald trump. they believe that he is above that. they believe he has separate

from the law, and i'm not really shocked by it at all, chris. >> so,, rick would you say that if you are one of the other dozen candidates running for president, you've got to change the conversation. i, mean do you stick to strategy, which clearly isn't working, and maybe you wait and hope you have a moment at the debate, or a debate, or do you just have to, right, now reevaluate everything you're doing? >> again, those lessons in 2016 apply. if you're waiting for the debate to be a miracle, or where your focus groups and consultants write you a couple of one line zingers, and then trump can consume the entire stage and direct you, it's not going to work. miracles don't work in this business. look, rhonda santas is spending over $2 million a month right now in iowa, maybe more than that, trying to win one primary -- just like ted cruz dead. we see ted cruz is not now and will never be president. all of these candidates

fundamentally do not understand where the maga base is. they think they can say all the things the base likes, but the base wants to hear all those things for donald trump. it is not a possibility for any of these people to become donald trump. desantis himself has been probably the worst rowlatt of the well-funded candidate i've ever witnessed in been in politics for over 30 years. >> wow. that is quite a statement. hey, given that, if you are one of the other candidates who's not wrong desantis, do you look at it and say, okay, he is saying again, now i do have an opportunity, or, do you just, you know what rick says, except his truth that this is donald trump's party and they're sticking to it. >> that's the tough part here. on the one hand, you do have people like desantis who are trying to, they're trying to emulate trump to become a more refined version of him. people like nikki haley, tim scott, they're trying to play it for the more moderate base. they're trying to pull the

people who republicans have lost during general elections, but that's not going to help them right now during this primary season. i really don't know what, if i knew what the strategy was, or should be for them, i would be making a lot of money with him right now because i feel like -- >> quite, as joined them. >> right? they are kind of flailing right now trying to figure out what to do and so much of the people whose votes they rely on to find themselves based on this one person. how do you separate that person from the sort of policies you want to talk about? that's hard because a lot of their policies are still the same across the board. either they are super into the culture war, fighting, denigrating minorities and trans people, and trans kids, the desantis model, the kind of religious right model of pence, or they are trying to play for the, you know, suburban moms groups. none of it is trump. it's hard to break through that

shelf for them. i don't know where they're going to have to go from here. >> yeah, when chris christie tried the ladder in front of the faith and freedom coalition they got booed. there you go. you'll stick with me because we're going to continue this conversation after a very quick commercial break. commercial break enough was enough. i talked to an asthma specialist and found out my severe asthma is driven by eosinophils, a type of asthma nucala can help control. now, fewer asthma attacks and less oral steroids that's my nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions,

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calling this an editor of msnbc daily, and cofounder of the

lincoln project. there was a lot in this nbc poll i found fascinating. a key part for me showing a combined 44% of registered voters that will definitely or probably consider a third party or independent candidate -- you know, no labels have been flirting with the idea of throwing support behind a third party candidate, although they claim they wouldn't be a spoiler. rick, what is the possible opening here for someone who isn't trump or biden? >> well in the history of the united states, no single third party candidates has ever, not, all other party candidates have never come up with the election votes. that's throughout history. >> there've been spoilers. >> there is no chance for them to win. they can't get to two 70, but, what no labels is trying to do, they are now basically republican super back. there's death by republicans, they're getting their money from republicans, including harlan crow, clarence thomas's

sugar daddy. they are saying that they're going to put a conservative democrat on their cannon to pull votes from joe biden. last week they said that they would pull out if one desantis was the nominee because they are a republican super pac. they're looking for a spoiler to defeat joe biden no matter what their quasi-language, no matter what their do good are affected is. they are looking to kill off joe biden. that is all they're there for. anyone giving the money, he was not of republican, is a fool. >> as you know, no labels has said, as i'm sure you mention, they would not be a spoiler. that doesn't mean that they won't mount a candidate for some body. they've got real money. there is other people out there who might consider getting in. given the closest in the race, with the head to head matchup, with the margin an error between biden and trump, there's a real spoiler possibility there, isn't there? just statistically right now.

>> statistically, yes. there is a spoiler possibility. work is right that there is no real path, i, feel for anyone to get to actually winning the presidency through a campaign. i'm someone who on the whole thinks that it's kind of madness to want to run for president in the first place. to want to do it badly enough that you're going to ask you the two party system to jump into a race where are your defining characteristic is being not these two people. i think that is what the, i know that back in 2020, a lot of people voted for not really joe biden, but against arnold trump. trying to duplicate that through third-party run, i think that i can't track the logic of how that gets you to been in the white house. if you are someone who sees that polling and thanks to themselves there's a spot here for me to get into the national spotlight, to make a lot of headlines, to raise a lot of

money, to raise awareness of me as a political figure, then sure. that makes sense, you know, and a twisted sort of why free to jump into the race. if you look at this poll in and say 44% of people want someone other than these two, i can totally make up the other 6%, somehow, and eke my way into the white house. that someone is lying to you if they're trying to convince you that that's the case. >> unless i missed it, i think the one thing you kindly didn't mention potentially is a motivating factor is ego. that's a conversation for another day. so, where, eric let's talk about the issues. yesterday marked one year since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade and trump mentioned that during his speech yesterday at the faith an freedom conference. here it is. >> exactly one year ago today those justices -- in the supreme court's landmark decision, ending the constitution atrocity known as roe v wade. but i got it done and nobody

thought it was even a possibility. they've been fighting, good people, strong people, smart people, have been fighting for 50 years and never even came close to getting that. >> the question really is and how many people feel about this overwhelmingly, they support reproductive rights. unlike in 2022, they'll continue to vote for that issue because if that doesn't become a motivating factor among the left, then does that provide an opening for somebody on the right? >> well, what we've observed last year in 2022, it's 17 of the 22 races that we won last year. we notice in our survey work that the dobbs decision destroyed the republican women solidarity behind the republican candidate. it broke off 20 to 25% of republican women who said that i'm staying home, or in voting the other way.

this is something that the dog had the proverbial car for the republican party, and about how you feel about abortion, the national consensus on, it no one was comfortable with roe v. wade. it also didn't feel like a revolutionary and transgressive moment. the other part of this is the state legislatures around the country that are controlled by the republican party have been going farther and farther off the cliff with us. they're doing things like this six-week abortion ban, and they're doing things like criminalizing doctors for providing even medical advice about it. they're preventing rape victims from getting abortions. all of these things are way outside the polling mainstream. the republican party knows that. there are republicans in florida begging ron desantis not to sign the abortion ban because they know how bad it is even among their own base. >> rick wilson, hayes braun, great having you on the program. thank you. straight ahead, the latest on the aftermath of the

short-lived arme