that -- whatever it is that motivates you to the poll, whether it is a concern about votes, whether it's a concern about voter suppression, which is still an issue that is in our country. whatever it takes, get to the barbara polls. and mcquade, basil i think that really should be the message. michaels, -- stevens. what a great penalty and my two hours. thank you for being here, much appreciated. that is going to do it for the special sunday edition of christiansen reports. make sure to join me tomorrow and every weekday from 1 to 3 pm eastern right here on msnbc. inside with jen psaki starts right now. >> an extraordinary armed rebellion and russia ends abruptly. the big questions remain. just how weekend's lattimer pond? is yevgeny prigozhin going to ride off into the sunset? perhaps most importantly, what does this all mean for the war in ukraine? joining us this hour, former

u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul, former nato supreme allied commander, james to read us, and cia analyst from congresswoman, elissa slotkin. later, my sunday exclusive with house speaker nancy pelosi. get her reflections on the one year anniversary of roe v. wade being overturned in the future of abortion rights in america. >> over just the last 48 hours, the yevgeny prigozhin a brutal shadow commander of mercenary forces staged a short-lived attempt to seize more power in russia. briefly taking control over rostov-on-don a key military logistics have on his way to march towards moscow. in the 11th hour, a shady and mysterious deal was struck by valery gerasimov valery gerasimov a leader of belarus that led putin in power, and to prigozhin packing his bags to

move to believers. we know the story is unlikely to end there. back in 1991, another russian leader, gorbachev, also survived a coup. he only relinquish power for months later. even a short-lived attempt to take over control the russian government exposes an added minimum, some instability and weakness within the kremlin. where does this all believe flooded more putin's grip on power? does this change anything for the ukrainian military on the front lines? does it embolden putin to be even more aggressive and brutal in the war? does it change the calculation of big global powers like china and india who have largely hung on the sidelines, or maybe doesn't at all. what happens next. this may all feel like something happening very far away, but the reactions of a weekend in a bold and authoritarian leader like putin can have significant impacts on the rest of the world. that's why we're going to spend most of the next two hours focused on this is some of the smartest people i know. let me start with how we got

here. over the last decade, yevgeny prigozhin built an army of mercenaries around the world. his troops have been tracked in the central african republic, sudan, libya, mozambique, syria, and yes, ukraine. that's where you might have heard of him. i first learned about him when i was the states spokesperson back in 2014, in russia invaded ukraine. back, them putin and the kremlin were denying publicly that they had sent military into ukraine. that's because they weren't technically russian military, prather definition. they were members of the wagner group. prigozhin's paid mercenaries hired by putin. the little green men that many of you have heard about at the time. prigozhin is a former convict to remain myself into a fact cat russian oligarchs through lucrative food contracts with the russian military, warning himself the nickname, the chef. he has shattered military commander started in ukraine, but he didn't play just in the world of combat. he also operated troll farms

that spread misinformation across europe in the united states, including around the 2016 election. and fact, he was indicted by special counsel robert mueller. prigozhin's trained killers have been fighting the war without being under the command of the russian military. there have been long growing tension going on here, even before friday. that growing rift emerged as prigozhin accused the minister of defense for failing to supply weaponry to fight the war. at one point even asked for a top russian general to face a firing squad. there's been dissatisfaction in the military in ukraine, including amongst the rake and file. for prigozhin, he capitalized on that unrest, on all of that. needless to say, he showed force this week not only leaves putin's future in question, but also that russia's military leadership. what is clear is that prigozhin saw a weakness, and an opportunity to deceive some sort of power. his rebellion might not be over, but president putin's hold on

power may never be the same. that can have far wider implications. i can think of no one better to start off our coverage today than michael mcfaul, he's the former u.s. ambassador into russia, and international affairs analyst for msnbc. you have been watching, covering, following putin for many years. the last 48 hours i think feel very strange, including that deal. let me start with just what do you make of all this? >> well i have been following them for a long time. we first met putin in 1991. that's how far back we go. he's never experienced a 48 hours like he just did. this is the biggest crisis of his time in power, since he became president in 2000. there are lots of weird things like you just described,, john about the deal that caused this to go away. then everyone back down. let's make no mistake, starting at 30,000 feet, when you have one armed force threatening to go to war with another armed

force, they're all supposed to be loyal to you, that's bad for vladimir putin. he emerges from this crisis much weaker than he was 48 hours ago. >> now you have been prolific on twitter about this, informing all of us. one of the things you said that struck me is, quote, when faced with a difficult decision of trying to stop the wagner mercenaries with major force, he backed down. how should that impact the way the world is fought in ukraine, and what did you think that was such an important piece to point out? >> well it's important points because this is been a debates within the biden administration, and within the nato alliance from the very beginning of the sport. from various moments in the war, when making a decision about this what better that weapon, there has been a decision made where we can't do that because that would be escalatory. putin will escalate. including, sometimes, people saying that he will use a nuclear weapon. second, throughout this war there has been lots of debate

about putin leading to save face. he needs exit ramps. before these metaphors 100 times. he'll never quite. yet, here we have a play of that. putin was very tough in his address to the russian people, by the way. we're going to squash these traders, we're going to give them justice. yet, hours later, he backed away. hours later, when he had the opportunity to escalate, and use his armed forces to bomb them on the road to moscow, he chose a different path. i'm not saying that he'll do the same in ukraine, we need to be careful about whether this is a lesson that will be applied exactly in ukraine, but the idea that the only thing we can do to end the war in ukraine is to give him a face saving way out, would use to translate to, by the way, giving him ukrainian territory, i think this whole episode has really undermined that hypothesis.

maybe putin will negotiate not when he's winning, not when he is given a gift of territory in ukraine, but when he's losing, as he just said yesterday. >> now given, that obviously there are is a range of assistance and military equipment that is being provided by different countries around the world. some more ambitious and aggressive than others. there is a nato meeting coming up in just a couple of weeks, do you anticipate any of these conversations change in about the kinds of assistance, the kind of military equipment that is going to be provided given putin's last 48 hours? >> i don't think so. i think they're locked in for the summit. both in terms of what equipment they're going to provide and what they're going to do vis-à-vis ukraine's aspiration to join the alliance. i think that it already has begun a new conversation about both of those things. for a couple of reasons. first of, all the threat from the, east ukraine, has become

much more volatile. much more unstable. the worst-case scenarios, of which i had don't personally associate with, i want to be clear about that, of disillusion, of the putin regime, the russian federation. this is a step towards a weaker russia, which suggests that ukraine needs more of a security guarantee from the west in order to deal with that neighbor. by the, way i'd be making the same argument if i was talking to choosing ping right now. he's worried about his partner in russia quitting the war sooner might be a way to stabilize russia, and even stabilize putin in power. i suspect that's going to be part of the conversation when the nato summit happens. >> now there have been rumors about a change in the ministry of defense leadership. i don't expect you to have any particular insight, although share with us if you do, but i was curious about how you think the kremlin, one of the conversations like today inside the kremlin about what's next,

and what the last 48 hours does to impact their own calculus? >> well first, there is lots of crumbling conversations that we still don't know a lot about. how is it that our intelligence officials knew about the coup attempt in mid june, but the russian intelligence didn't. that doesn't make any sense to me. how is it that prigozhin i announced that he was marching towards rostov, and i remember in realtime watching this thinking no way he's gonna go to downtown rostov and he was there within hours without firing a shot. how is it that within just a few hours lukashenko the leader of belarus, not knowing, as a mediator, by the, way our diplomatic negotiator, out of the blue, just hours, cut the deal with prigozhin? those are old negotiations the kremlin did that we still need to learn about. what i'm looking for going forward is, will, and what you just mentioned.

was it really part of the deal as it's been alleged? that in return for standing down, prigozhin got put into agreed to remove the people that he hates most of all, showing his minister of defense, in general -- the commander you mentioned, that would be shocking to me. another sign of weakness for putin. we still don't know. two, what i'm watching is what really are the parameters of mr. prigozhin's time in belarus. he hasn't been on his telegram channel since he announced that he's backing up, backing down. that is interesting to me. he's gone radio silence. is that part of the deal or not? we still don't know the details of that. >> ambassador michael mcfaul, so much to watch. so much over the next couple days. i know you'll be watching. thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. we have a huge our head. former nato supreme allied, james doritos joins me to discuss what this all means for the battlefield in ukraine.

plus, a conversation with the atlantic's anne applebaum about how damaging this weekend was for putin and his group and power. later, my one-on-one interview with house speaker, amrita pelosi. she had a lot on her mind about abortion rights and so much more. we're just getting started today, we'll be right back. ght back the rec league's self-crowned pickleball king. do you just bow down? no you de-thrown the king. pedialyte. 3x the electrolytes. want a worry-free way to kill bugs? zevo traps use light to attract and trap flying insects with no odor and no mess. they work continuously, so you don't have to. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly. ♪♪ when you're a small-business owner, your to-do list can be... a lot.

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vladimir putin's hold on power since he took control of russia and it was felt like an instant, with an agreement brokered by the leader of belarus with yevgeny prigozhin. according to the kremlin, criminal charges against prigozhin will be dropped in hill relocate to belarus. wagner soldiers who took place in the mini will be granted amnesty, and those who remained in their barracks will be offered a contract with the defense ministry. we'll see how many take them up on. that but will it mean for putin 's invasion now that the leader of his longtime group of paid

mercenaries just attempted a rebellion against his military leadership and maybe even him? joining me now is admirable james -- he is the former ally commander and msnbc chief analyst. thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. i really just wanted to start here with the impact of what we saw over the last 48 hours, specifically of the fact that it looks like no longer will there be fighters of the wagner group, at least in the size they've been and, on the battlefield. what do you think the impact of that will be? >> well it's enormous, good news for ukraine, jen. the most effective russian ground soldiers from day one in this conflict have been the wagner group. they know how to fight, a lot of them comes with real combat experience gains in as a series of illegal conflicts and africa. they're tough minded, they typically don't have a lot of ties back home.

to take that piece off the chessboard is nothing but good. i think your assessment is correct. you know, we're looking at prigozhin moving to belarus. first prize, conquer russia, second prize, you get to leave and belarus. arguably the least desirable place and all of europe. by the, way you're going to live under the thumb of alexander lukashenko who was a thug and a creature of vladimir putin. the point being, he will not be driving the forces of the wagner group in my view in the future. all of that takes a very important components, out of the gate. that's good for ukraine. one other point to debate here is the morale issue. are those russian soldiers, many of them can scraps, they watch all this and they have their phones, they're looking at the internet, they see all

this nonsense. it impacts them morale, their willingness to fight, their sense that there are in a just cause, which they're clearly not. all in, all a good couple days for kyiv, jen. >> you have spent, of course, decades commanding about this yourself. how would you take advantage of the last 48 hours if you were ukrainian military later. as you mentioned, it's taking a number of the most skilled battles fighters off the battlefield. the law to forgot where to go from here. what do you do if your zelenskyy and the ukrainian military commanders? >> i'll tell you three thanks. number one, you use this moment to really gather intelligence in all this confusion, a lot of the russians will be foolishly jumping on themself phones, there's a lot of exposed communication, you gather intelligence. number two, you use your along turn strike capability that we have provided to hopefully get in their hands very soon to continue to crack the logistics

base, particularly with the wagner fighter leading the battlefield. that is open. third and final, information cannot be flooding there waves. your machine is making sure every russian soldier gets to see the loop going over and over again of russian tanks charging at moscow. think how that's received. you do all those three things, jen, and then you continue to have this powerful counteroffensive. i think you'll see some real military opportunity as a result of all this in the week or so i had. >> there have been a number of rumors about the future of the leadership of the defense ministry of russia. given that they were the targets of prigozhin. do you expect that vice minister -- will remain in charge, and you expect changes? >> i don't think anybody knows

yet, but that is one of the markers that i'm watching very closely. i'm also watching prigozhin himself. you've heard mike mcfaul a few moments ago talking about his lack of communication. i think that's consistent with him been sidelined. i would not, to be honest, be surprised to see shoigu leave. you've served in government alongside, may you think about responsibility and accountability when military campaigns fail. we do that in the united states. our defense secretaries our service chiefs, our combat commanders, they would all have been fired by now after this real lack of performance. you know that. i would not be surprised to see shoigu move to the side as well. >> admirable james stavridis, thank you as always for sharing specific and helpful analysis with us. my next guest says things are

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with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. for a few hours on saturday, yevgeny prigozhin advance on moscow raise the brief but dramatic prospectives regime change in russia. the kremlin, of, course no stranger to revolutionary movements. most notably, the events in 1917, which gave rise to the soviet union after a millennium and projected civil war. it is televised speech during yesterday's short-lived insurrection, putin seemed to express this fear of exactly that. he specifically warned of a repeat of 1917. portraying it not as the glorious revolution of his beloved former empire, but as a destabilized in force that led, quote, russia is to kill the russian brothers. for some observers, it was an

odd analogy. both because of putin's well-known affinity for the soviet union, and because his grip on power at the time is extremely precarious. of course a potential civil war was averted, putin remains in place. at least for now. as my next guest noticed on twitter, things aren't going back to how they were before. i'm joined now by anne applebaum, russia expert, author, and staff writer at the atlantic. and, i want to start their. the last 48 hours have been a bit of a whirlwind. you tweeted that things aren't going to go back. tell us a bit more about why you think that, and what we should be watching for over the next couple of weeks. >> you are absolutely right. to start with, 1917. the person who brought that idea into the conversation yesterday was putin himself. he gave a short speech in which he portrayed the idea that this was a national emergency, that's yevgeny prigozhin who is marching on moscow was an enemy of the people. he was a trader, he had to be

arrested and crashed. people must not join him. they must stay away from him. and then some powers later, after our processes that were opaque and difficult to foresee, after prigozhin had already moved 500 miles into russia, had taken over a town, had occupied the military headquarters, an important military headquarters in southern russia, after that, after all, that suddenly it was fine. it was all over, and prigozhin was being forgiven in moving developers. there is just a disjunction between the morning and the afternoon. first of all, things have been that we weren't being told about. second of, all prigozhin had exposed just how weak putin's regime was. no one was there to get in the way of him. they didn't seem to be anyone bothered by him. there was lots of bystanders on the streets on the wagner group, waving at him, taking selfies.

it suddenly looked as if putin's control wasn't as complete as it seem to be just 48 hours ago. >> we know putin's been paranoid before, are you follow, you've covered him, you've watched him, you've written about him so closely. what do you anticipate that he's going to be like now? >> one of the interesting things about this moment was that he did not, at least so far, he did not blame the west. he did not say that this is a western plot, this is hillary clinton, which he said in the past, and this is not somebody's organize this. he spoke immediately about internal divisions in russia. that can only mean that he is aware that these divisions are real, and that it's going to be important to try to stop them. i would say that he has to pass in front of him right now. either a crack down, and we'll see a much higher level of aggression and russia that we haven't seen up until now, maybe locking people up, or we'll see more chaos as people look at what just happened and

say, wait a second, if prigozhin you can drive tanks into 200 mile range of moscow, many things are possible. >> prigozhin hadn't been secret about his distaste for the russian military leadership, fighting the war, how, are there are others that could be emboldened, potential rivals inside the kremlin at this point? >> i, mean you have to assume that there are dozens of rivals. a few weeks ago, somebody said to me what prigozhin is doing now is not trying to replace putin, but he's already engaged this competition about who follows him. you know, maybe that was true, maybe it just went wrong. maybe, anyone who sees how potentially weak the regime, as how much resistance there was, a little reaction there was from the army, from the security services, would have to say, right, i like my chances. >> what was so confusing for me watching this yesterday was all of a sudden it was over, and

prigozhin was moving to belarus. as you alluded, to this just so much we don't know. what did you make about that and not steal? what did you make of that announced oil, and one of the big questions in your mind about what exactly the details of that were? >> i'm afraid i just lost you. and, can you still hear me? >> now i can hear you. great, let me repeat my question. i was asking you because yesterday, if felt very abrupt. all of a sudden there is this deal, and prigozhin was moving to believers. there's a lot we don't know. what are the big questions he would love answers to? >> so as soon as that happened, almost everybody i know, everyone who watches russia, everyone who's in ukraine, everyone who pays attention in washington, was flabbergasted. all types of oddities. lukashenko is a stand in for

putin when he feel tweak lately. the sudden decision, some people think money was involved. maybe he was paid off. maybe that's what he wanted all along. maybe he made his point. maybe he became afraid that he wouldn't be able to take moscow after all, maybe he expected reinforcements that didn't arrive. there is clearly an enormous number of things we don't know. this always leads people to the direction of conspiracy theory. i actually don't want to go there because putin's reaction on saturday was the speech he gave, the language he used, it was so forceful that it's clear that he thought something real was happening. this wasn't a piece of theater, it was a real event. he clearly thought that it was important enough, whatever it costs, whatever the price he paid, you know, in money, your status, it was important for him to bring it to a tense. and, yeah many unanswered questions. that's an understatement. >> we've been watching the so

closely, obviously msnbc and other networks have been covering the so closely. i'm curious about the read and russia, from the russian people, what they made of the last 48 hours. what's your assessment of that? >> that's hard to know, because we don't have good information from russia. i would say the one interesting clue was that people who you saw on camera, they were being filmed, they were filming themselves in rostov which is where prigozhin occupied the military quarters. they were out on the street, they were happy to see the wagner people, they took selfies with them. they were bringing them food. when prigozhin drove away, they cheered and applauded. i mean this was not a group of people who were upset about seeing the regime replaced by a bunch of mercenary thugs. you know, putin has spent a lot of time and effort trying to create apathy in russia, he's persuaded people into politics is a dirty business, you don't to be involved.

they did the famous fire hood of falsehoods, they put different lies, a huge range of explanations for any given events on television. you know, a completely incoherent why. it's designed to make people feel like that nothing is true, that can only think, they better stay right. one of the effects of that is that people, you, know feel also pretty apathetic about the regime. about, you, know did anyone seem all that sad that there was a march on moscow? did they seem to stressed about it? that certainly wasn't visible yesterday. i mean obviously there is a kind of panic in moscow, people were worried. there were blockades. they were digging trenches. there were, you know, they were preparing to defend the city. i'm sure that many people anxious. were people upset that the leader was in trouble? i don't think so. >> anne applebaum, the first piece i read was the piece that you wrote in your analysis of this. i will always closely follow you as the story continues. thank you so much for joining me this afternoon.

congresswoman congresswoman elissa slotkin joins me after the break to discuss the -- about the rebellion rush. at, later the state of abortion access in our country. one year after roe v. wade was overturned by the supreme court, alaska house speaker nancy pelosi if she thinks a national bore's been banned is still a possibility of republicans regain control of the senate after -- we'll be back after a short break. break. a treehouse, ♪ ♪ honestly i don't care ♪ find the perfect vacation rental for you booking.com, booking. yeah.

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♪ this is knowing even superheroes... can use a sidekick. ♪ walgreens. members of congress have been weighing in on the historic significance of the unsettling events in russia over the last 48 hours. one perspective that really struck out to me was from democratic congresswoman, elissa slotkin. before being interested to serve in congress she was a cia analyst, and she held a number of intelligence positions under president bush and obama. she also served as the acting assistant secretary of defense for international security firms where she oversaw policy on russia.

she has a lot of experience on these issues. the congresswoman treated that she was upmost friday night watching everything on fold, saying, quote it is the clearest confirmation that the folly of putin's invasion of ukraine. congresswoman women illicit slotkin, joins me now. a new tweet on friday, you called it the folly of putin's invasion. do you think that it would be facing challenges to leadership if he had not invaded ukraine? >> no. i mean, i think that's the point. a year ago, or year and a half ago, he launched a full scale invasion of another nation thinking that, number one, his military had the capability to do, ednor to, that the international community in the united states specifically wouldn't rally, get organized, stay coherence, they're unified, he could wait us out. he would've taken back this country, in his mind, put him in the russian history is a great leader. a year and a half later, he's

defending himself, he's defending his leadership, he's having to make statements from bunker locations. he's having other heads of state negotiate deals with the guy who's threatening violence against him. it doesn't feel like a strong position for him to begin. i think it's just shows the real strategic mistake that he's made in trying to invade ukraine. i hope that the ukrainians are able to take advantage of it on the battlefield. >> given your extensive acronym national security, i want to ask you about these reports that nbc news has now confirmed the u.s. intelligence officials were aware that -- was prepared to take this military action against russia. they even breached republican leaders on this. they kept quiet publicly because they were worried, reportedly, that putin would accuse them of staging a coup. of course we've shown his capabilities in this regard in the past but what did you make of that decision for them not to provide that information

publicly? >> look, this isn't the united states fight, right? this is the first time we've had violence and conflict on russian soil between russians since the coup in 19, or attempted coup in the 90s. this is not, this is not for us to foment, to exaggerate, to try and fanned the flames. this is, we're watching. now we have a huge interest, as does the rest of the world because russia is a nuclear superpower, right? they have the ability to, when they became unstable, to be a really dangerous concern for the whole international community. this is a fight between russians, obviously. it's not like this was done in complete darkness. you know, prigozhin was talking about his complaints against putin in the regime for a while. i think he was given a pretty long leash. this is something that was played out in the open, not just behind closed doors. >> now, as you and i both now, even though it seems a little calm on the ground now, there

are a lot of conversations happening in the situation room, and the pentagon among your former colleagues. what's happening right now? what are they watching, what are you watching over the next couple of days here in russia and the ground there? >> and in ukraine to, i should say. >> yeah. i would say first and foremost, the preeminent concern has to be that this country that has nuclear weapons is still stable. you, know if you've worked on the u.s. russia relations, there are basically three really important people in that architecture. there's putin, there's a minister of defense, and the chief of the defense stuff. you've had people on your program today talking about what's going to happen in the ministry of defense, or the chief defense tap, will they be fired or let go? i thought it was important that people like chairman milley canceled his trip, that they're in the situation room, they're having this conversation behind closed doors because that is the biggest threats that we

have to be worried about, even if it's a low likelihood that something will happen. then, you know, in my mind, it's making sure that the ukrainians can potentially take advantage of some of these weaknesses on the battlefield. what does it mean that the wagner group is a little on its heels right now, what does it mean that they were on the front lines and now, maybe, their morale is going to be low? maybe they're going somewhere else. in my mind, these conversations are first and foremost about the nuclear threat, and then number two, about how to take advantage of this moment in ukraine. >> in light of that, i mean, in terms of how to take advantage of it, which is no doubt the conversation that's been had in capitals around the world in europe and here, do you think that anything should change about the u.s. posture in ukraine in terms of the type of aid or assistance the u.s. provides, or do you anticipate that changing those conversations say at the nato meeting that's coming up in a few weeks? >> well look, i've always been

an advocate for doing, to the limit of what we can do without standpoint american settles and on to the war because i think that it's important to punch putin in the mouth a few more times, change the status quo on the ground so that the ukrainians have a position of strength and feel comfortable coming to a negotiating table. right? that's what we're trying to get to. i think that there's a lot of hope that this summer offensive will be that game-changer on the ground. i've been supportive of not just the volume that we've been sending over there, but different types of weapons to help give them an advantage on the battlefield. now is a supporter of sending out f-16s, or training the pilots. you've got to change the status quo in order to move us to a different point in this war. i hope that, i mean, look, what happened in the last 48 hours 72 hours is a greatest indicator that we have that putin has made a strategic mistake. let's press with the ukrainians

now so we can put some points on the board to change the status quo. hopefully, see our way through this conflict and not just have it be like another decade long frozen conflict. >> congresswoman elissa slotkin, thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. next, my conversation with nancy pelosi as we mark one year since roe v. wade was overturned. she makes a little news when it comes to her views on the supreme court. that's coming up, after a quick break. r a quic break. aluations... and the results are in. subaru is the twenty twenty-three best mainstream automotive brand, according to consumer reports. and subaru has seven consumer reports recommended models. solterra, forester, outback, crosstrek, ascent, impreza, and legacy. it's easy to love a brand you can trust. it's easy to love a subaru. are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean?

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supreme court overturned roe v. wade. whether was the midterms last year, or the failed abortion ballot measures across the country one, thing has been very clear. americans are overwhelmingly against that ruling. a new nbc news poll shows that 61% of the voters disapprove of the dobbs decision that overturned roe. four women between the ages of 18 and 49, nearly 79% disapprove. among independent women, 60% disapprove. and even a third of republican women are against it. it's one of the rare political issues where there is generational agreement. so someone who understands the political and social fall out of the ruling is house speaker nancy pelosi. she was first elected to the house when roe v. wade had been the law of the land for 20

years. so it's safe to say that in her 30 plus years, she didn't think she would be rounding out her career in a country where a woman's right to choose was put at risk. >> so, we are sitting here, one year after a decision that impacted millions of americans across the country. and in your briefing, just after the dobbs decision, you said, quote, be aware of this, the republicans are plotting a nationwide abortion ban. they cannot be allowed to have a majority in congress to do that. now, we've seen the response from the american public since then. but how concerned are you, if republicans regain senate or the white house, they would push through an abortion ban. >> i feel quite certain they would. i think we should make sure they don't win the house, i work with hakeem jeffries to make sure that doesn't happen. and i feel it's definitely within grasp. if everyone said we are going to lose 30 or 40 seats last

time -- we lost five. everyone said you had the wrong message, they were saying you are going to owe an apology to the members, because dobbs is in the rearview mirror, but it wasn't. it was up front. right up in front for women in our country. we lost five, not 30, or 40. but we didn't want to lose those five. so we'll get them back. >> there's a lot of language being thrown out there by republicans running for president, about their plans on abortion. and i think it's so important for people to understand what they are actually saying. so governor rhonda santas signed into law in, the dark of night, as we all saw, or we didn't see, a six-week abortion ban. is that essentially a ban on abortion, given most women don't know their pregnant at that time? >> it is. i don't think we should get involved in dates and all of this. but if you take total ban, restrictions of that kind, many states in our country will have it in a very unhealthy

situation for women. in addition to which, the -- only a handful have voted to enable women to travel to seek reproductive health care. so it's disrespect to women, it's a point of privacy, it's a precedent of the court, and what the court did, one year ago, this was something that reversed what's been happening in our country since the beginning. our founders founded us on freedom and democracy. our founding document, the declaration was very clear in that regard. but the constitution was not. in terms of equality and the rest. but in their wisdom, they made it amendable, starting with the bill of rights. one thing and another. roe v. wade, and then marriage equality, and then a reversal. our country has always been

about expanding freedom. until now. this court, ignoring its own precedent, and the right of privacy in the constitution. so we have to reverse that, and congress has the right to do that. one way or another. and people have to know, what is at stake in the election. >> trump is taking credit for the dobbs decision. even recently posting, quote, i was able to kill roe v. wade, much to the shock of everyone. is this something you think democrats should be hanging around his neck more? >> yeah. because first of all, it's the hypocrisy of the first order. but without going into his -- shall we say, inconsistencies, to use the gentler word. yeah,, that's what he's saying, and i think that has clarity. and there are people in our country, and i respect their view on the issue of women's rights to abortion. but the same people in the congress, eight of them voted

for women having the right to contraception. eight. i think it was three maybe, or so, that voted for women to be able to travel and have access to reproductive health. so make no mistake, there is clarity on their side on this issue. and it is long, but it's right next to their base. >> i want to talk about the supreme court. because this week, propublica is out with a new report about justice alida failing to disclose -- this is after the reporting surrounding justice thomas and his wife, and you've been very outspoken about the fact that there is no ethics requirements. it's also a new quinnipiac poll that shows public approval of the court has dropped to 30%, which is shockingly low, and all-time low. are you concerned the supreme court has lost its legitimacy? >> i think they have the

opportunity to write some ethics rules for themselves. and that's what the chief justice has said. we can do it ourselves. i see no action being taken there. but nonetheless, that's what they've said. i give credit to senator whitehouse with the majority in the senate, he is able, in his committee, to point out what needs to be done, to have integrity. integrity on the court. it's shameful how justice thomas and justice alito have been so cavalier about their violations of what would be expected of a justice of the supreme court. here we have a body chosen for life, never have to run for office, nominated, confirmed, for life, with no accountability for their ethics behavior. 30% seems high. >> do you think there should be

changes, reforms, term limits? and expansion? >> it's been over 150 years since we've had an expansion of the court. it wasn't the time of lincoln that it went up to nine. so the subject of whether that should happen is a discussion. it's not a rallying cry. but it's a discussion. the president formed a commission, they did not recommend expansion of the court, that shouldn't be the end of it. but there certainly should be term limits. there certainly should be >> -- and if nothing else, there should be some ethical rules that would be followed. i had one justice tell me he thought the other justices were people of integrity, like clarence thomas. i'm like, get out of here. -- >> but some exciting news to end this hour with. our show will now be available as a podcast. you can search for inside with jen psaki wherever you get your

podcasts and, hit follow. you can check back tomorrow morning to listen to the show in its entirety. that does it for this hour, but stay right where you are, i'll be back with another hour as we continue digging into what's happening in russia. we'll also share more of my conversation with speaker pelosi. it's all coming up after this quick break. k break. you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence. from the network america relies on.

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