we're going to see just full on chaos from now until 2024. >> just like this 2020, the poll suggests voters who kind of dislike both candidates are still breaking for biden. that could be the difference. elise jordan, stick around for "morning joe." thanks for being with us this morning. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. this is the latest chapter in a book of failure that putin has written for himself. >> right. >> and for russia. economically, militarily, his standing in the world, all of those things have plummeted. now, with trouble brewing from within, as i said, this adds more questions that he has to find answers for. >> confusion and uncertainty in russia this morning after a failed revolt by the head of the wagner mercenary group. it was the most significant challenge to vladimir putin's authority in decades.

we'll go over what exactly happened and what it could mean for putin's leadership as well as the war in ukraine. plus, republicans continue to veer toward an electoral cliff, backing former president trump despite his mounting legal challenges, even as many voters are deeply disturbed by his multiple indictments. perhaps that's why president biden is leading trump in a 2024 matchup. and a year after the supreme court stripped away abortion rights, the high court's approval rating is in the basement at just 31%. we're breaking down the new poll numbers just ahead. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, june 26th. joe is off this morning. we begin with this weekend's developing news out of russia, where the head of the mercenary group, wagner, launched the most direct challenge to vladimir putin's grip on power in his 19 years as president.

it started on friday when yevgeny prigozhin, the leader of a private army, posted a video to social media. in it, he suggests the russian invasion of ukraine was launched under false pretenses before accusing the russian military leaders of bombing his own soldiers. prigozhin vowed to retaliate, and his forces began their movement east soon after. by early saturday morning, prigozhin's wagner group claimed control of a military command center in southern russia. video shows civilians filming soldiers and tanks on the streets of the russian city as more wagner forces continued their push north toward moscow. it came as russian president vladimir putin made a televised address, calling prigozhin's armed mutiny treason and threatening to punish anyone who turned against the russian

military. then on saturday night, just as quickly as the conflict began, it seemed to end with a belarusian state media announcing that its president, lukashenko, a close ally of putin, mediated an agreement where prigozhin agreed to stop the troops' march north and turn around. prigozhin would be exiled to belarus. a lot of questions here about the stability of russia and global stability, as well. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. former aide to the george w. bush state department, elise jordan. from the council on foreign relations, richard haass. editor of "the washington post," david ignatius is with us.

and chief international analyst and retired four star general james stavridis is with us. richard, let's get to you with what we understand so far on this. where is prigozhin right now? where is putin right now? what do you make of this deal they have struck? >> mika, what we don't know is at least as large as what we do know. we've not seen the details of the deal, so it's a little bit hard to know if and when it ever sees the light of day, who looks weak and who seems to have capitulated more. prigozhin apparently in belarus, though i haven't seen pictures of him there, may still be in russia. what is his political future? could he rally for another day? i don't rule it out. the most interesting thing he said was his criticism of the war in ukraine, essentially calling it a totally misguided war of choice based upon false pretenses. one of the things to watch for is whether that resonates, whether that picks up any

momentum. >> right. >> putin is obviously weaker, but there is weaker and there is weaker. weaker people may be dangerous. what might he do in ukraine? a weaker russia raises questions over control of nuclear weapons. he is weaker but he is not out. there's lots of things he can do, i think, to revive in terms of, for example, suddenly the russian government could be very generous toward the russian people, or he could crack down or other would-be warlords who might take him on. it is premature to be writing his political obituary at this point. >> at the same time, he's tapped into a narrative about the war that was percolating in russia. david ignatius, column in "the washington post" entitled "president vladimir putin looked into the abyss on saturday and blinked." david writes, in part, quote, after vowing revenge for what he called an armed mutiny, putin settled for a compromise.

the speed with which putin backed down suggests that his sense of vulnerability might be higher than analysts believed. putin might have saved his regime saturday, but this day will be remembered as part of the unraveling of russia as a great power, which will be putin's true legacy. what's notable about this mad 24 hours is that putin managed to diffuse the crisis without any military confrontation. he has been humbled by a headstrong crony, to be sure, but he is still in control. it was a close shave, not a decapitation. what comes next surely is more trouble for putin in ukraine. prigozhin told the truth flat out in the days before his march on moscow. ukraine didn't threaten russia as russia's invasion was unnecessary, a mistake of epic proportions. even putin, the ice man, can't freeze the burning truth of his

ukraine disaster. david, i wonder what this means for the war in ukraine, how the ukrainians are reacting. can they capitalize on this in any way? >> so this is, as secretary blinken said yesterday, a book of failure. it is a direct challenge, again quoting blinken, to putin's authority and his rule. what that means for ukraine right now is hard to predict, but it can't be anything good for russia. russia's command and control structure has been rocked. rebellion by the militia leader who was the fighting principle in bakhmut, the biggest of the last year, has been in open revolt. putin was forced into the compromise, as i said, because the situation on saturday was so uncertain. wagner forces, prigozhin's followers, were marching on moscow, and i'm told that the

army troops along the way were neither supporting nor hindering him. they were just watching, watching this army of rebels move toward moscow. so putin, i think, not knowing how he was going to stop this crisis, decided to diffuse it using his friend, president lukashenko of belarus. one point to note that's important today is that leading russian journals are reporting that the investigation of prigozhin continues. supposedly, this was a deal where charges would be dropped against prigozhin and he and his militia soldiers would be free to disperse, to disband. today's news suggests something different, a continuing vendetta by putin against this person who dared to challenge him. i wouldn't want to write a life insurance policy on yevgeny prigozhin today, wherever he is. >> exactly.

>> whether he is in belarus or still in rostov-on-don, in the south, we truly don't know. but, again, i think the fundamental point for ukraine and the world is that putin has been rocked. putin had to make this compromise because he simply didn't know what was coming next for putin. you know, the control freak, the ultimate autocrat, that was a most uncomfortable, intolerable situation, and he made a deal to get out of it. >> i think the quick deal, admiral stavridis, is so interesting. how powerful does putin look if he is cutting a deal at the last minute? we don't know where either of them are, both leaders, and that's the big question. also, will belarus really take prigozhin in? is he going to make it out alive? what about this shaky deal? also, what's the reaction from the russian population? we have to be looking at that. also, geopolitical reaction, including countries like china.

pick one, admiral stavridis. >> let's start with napoleon. you know, when you're 5'5" tall and a military guy, you love to quote napoleon, so i'm going to do so. napoleon said, "never interrupt your enemy when he is making a serious mistake." that's what we're seeing right here. so it's up side for ukraine, down side for russia. you know, putin, dictaor 101 would tell you, when you are challenged like that and you put on your undertaker suit and does the speech that says, "in five minutes, i'm going to crush this rebellion," and then you give the guy a pass to go to belarus of all places, i'm kind of with david ignatius on this one. if i were prigozhin, i wouldn't be standing near any open windows on high floors any time soon. >> exactly. >> a lot of these oligarchs end

up flying out of them. he could be doing that flight without wings pretty soon, i would say. so geopolitically, as you look around, as both david and richard said, yeah, putin is taking some hits here. i think they're actually quite serious. you see some tepid support from china. you see some conciliatory, friendly statements out of iran, but geopolitically, your cachet is power and your absolute control. certainly, putin has taken some hits there. i'll conclude with this. as you look across the firing line at ukraine and how this looks from kyiv, it really is high fives. it's the opportunity cost here of russian forces. it's the morale that is shaken from top to bottom in this military force. it's the intelligence opportunities. you see a lot.

you hear a lot in moments of crisis like this, as people get careless in their communications and pull out that personal cell phone. so putting it all together, great day in kyiv, terrible day in moscow. >> yeah. >> friends of russia are feeling diminished today, i would say. another thing to be watching, jonathan lemire, prigozhin has tapped into a narrative about the war in ukraine among the russian people. there already was concern. russian mothers worried about their sons. these fighters fighting along prisoners. the elite and how their reaction -- how they're reacting to this. the white house isn't going to get in the middle of this, but how is the white house gaming this out? >> yeah, well, to the admiral's point, u.s. intelligence picked up in recent weeks the growing dissatisfaction, the stress, the tension between the wagner group and the russian military of defrens. defense.

that said, the events caught them by surprise, as well, how fast it happened. european allies, don't say anything, don't spike the football, let this play out. we need to see where this goes. they're doing after assessments, but they do believe it is bad for putin and, therefore, good for the ukrainian war effort. they think there is a moment here. kyiv's counteroffensive has been slow to start. there is a chance with russia so distracted and infighting and we don't know what happens to prigozhin next, this might be a chance for them to make some real progress. we will see in the days ahead. elise jordan, i'm reminded of the old russian saying, never give your chef a private army, because that got real bad for vladimir putin over the last couple days. it comes -- the timing of this comes -- it's so beneficial for kyiv, it seems to be, not just because of the counteroffensive, but there started to be a little wobbles in washington among republicans as well as some foreign capitals, about how much longer can we support ukraine to this level? not that they were going to cut

funding entirely, but the war looks like it could drag on for years. a sense that with our own economies shaky, more in europe than here, how much longer can we do this? with the nato summit coming and russia looking so chaotic, this might be what the allies need to say, "we're going to double down and keep it going." >> the ukrainians are armed and prepared, this new offensive about to launch or already ongoing. i just want to ask admiral stavridis, how much of a ground advantage does this give ukraine? is putin going to have to move resources back to russia, back to the motherland from ukraine and give an opening there, especially when the ukrainians are probably as well armed as they've ever been in this fight? >> it's the right tactical question to be asking. the short answer is, we don't know yet. nobody does. frankly, we all ought to be quite humble with our predictive powers at this point. i will say, putin, if you put

yourself in his shoes, you want to kind of make sure you've got units you can really depend on. he's looking more at elite forces, his air force, in particular. he still is in control of that. his naval forces. he's going to want to consolidate, control and, above all, of the intelligence services, the people that are in close around him. those are not the units that are fighting tooth and nail on the front lines in ukraine. so, elise, i wish i could say, yeah, this "game of thrones" moment is going to unfold, and there's going to be a civil war in russia. doesn't look like it at the moment. if it does, then i think the entire russian war effort will collapse because putin would need to really start pulling troops. bottom line, i don't see a big tactical change as a result of this. this will play out as a series of strategic challenges for the

kremlin in the weeks and months ahead. >> richard haass has a new piece on substack entitled "all politika is local." you write, yes, the events came as a surprise, but there is also the argument or something like them were inevitable. putin rules with little legitimacy. he has de-institutionalized russia and his government. there are no checks, no balances. putin is something of a warlord, all of which makes it unsurprising that another warlord would ask why him and not me and challenge him. more surprising is how putin allowed an alternative to emerge and what this says about his rule. the consensus among most russia experts is that prigozhin's challenge has significantly weakened putin. maybe. but autocrats send to stay in power if they keep their nerve and maintain the loyalty of the military and security services.

so far at least, this appears to be the case. moscow 2023 is not as yet tehran 1979. maybe not, richard, but this is in the middle of a war with ukraine that has dragged out far longer than anybody expected. this insurrection, he lost control of two cities. this is a major humiliation to vladimir putin. >> look, no argument. you know, certainly, it shatters the putin argument that time was on his side. that was a big argument given your previous conversation in terms of the u.s. and europe. i think it makes it harder to argue that. yeah, there is -- i'm struck, you know, putin in his statements the other morning, mika, talked about 1917. he tried to frame it there. when i look at all this, you know, what i think of is something much more recent, which is the soviets in afghanistan. they went in there. it was a fiasco, and that's what

ultimately contributed to the dissolution of the soviet union. what is ironic and interesting here, not to mention tragic for ukraine, is putin went into ukraine thinking it'd be a cakewalk, thinking it'd bolster his position at home and internationally, but it's turned out anything but. again, prigozhin's critique of the war, i thought, was really, really interesting. we'll see whether it picks up support in the military, who are essentially dying for this adventure, whether it picks up support at home because there's all sorts of loss of life and, economically, it's been costly. again, to me, what's really interesting going forward is whether, at some point, putin, potentially with chinese push, decides it is time to cut his losses, and whether there's just maybe a positive thing here. put aside the question of whether putin survives politically. also ask the question what it means for ukraine. might this create a circumstance where putin defines success

down? at the end of the day, let's be blunt, putin cares much more about his own position at home than he does about ukraine. ukraine was a means to an end to strengthen his a position sat home. ultimately, what he cares most about is putin in russia. if he now decides that cutting his losses or defining success down in ukraine serves his political and personal interest at home, then i think this could potentially open up a new chapter. >> if putin were to do that, he's got some scapegoats he can point to. blame prigozhin, the ministry of defense, they led us astray. manage down victory and get out. that's possible. david ignatius, let's talk a little bit about the wagner group right now, which they played a key role here. certainly in the battle of bakhmut, other places. they were certainly successful, a little russian success they've had in this campaign. they're also the tip of the spear in places like africa. like, this is a significant entity. its future is very much in

doubt. there is chatter on wagner telegram channels, many are upset they turned around and didn't keep going to moscow. what is your best guess, where does wagner go from here and prigozhin, that really had impact across the globe? >> that's a key question, whether wagner can be, will be integrated into regular russian forces. the army or, as in their overseas deployments, some part of the special forces. there's no question that wagner has been the toughest front line in bakhmut. that was part of what made prigozhin so furious. we're doing the fighting. we're doing the dying. you guys -- he'd be referring to the minister of defense, shoygu -- you guys are sitting in moscow on your fat sofas while we are dying. you're not giving us enough

ammunition. you're not paying us enough. on and on, month after month, you were getting this from prigozhin, and it is true, his men were on the front lines. what happened in rostov-on-don, where his militia went when they captured the city. are they dispersing quietly? do they go back to their hometowns? do they reform their units? is there an attempt made to draw them into the russian army? those are the questions that i'm going to be following, in particular. overseas, these were largely, you know, financial deals. wagner militias were employed in africa because they stood to gain substantial wealth. mineral wealth, other special deals that kept them there. are those going to be renegotiated? make a final point about putin. when somebody's authority has been damaged in the way that putin's has, either they

retract, recognizing that they've got to govern more carefully, or more often, frankly, they lash out to show, i'm still here. i can still wreak enormous destruction. i think the concern for kyiv is that in coming days, yes, they have an opportunity with the weakened putin, but they also have a significant new threat. this is a cornered rattlesnake. this is somebody who could strike very violently at ukraine. so i think, again, to follow up admiral stavridis, making precise predictions about how this would go next is very tricky because there's so many different cross currents. >> i want to tap into a part of what you said there, david, with the admiral. admiral stavridis, the challenge to putin, i'm curious what you're watching more within his own military while he is enduring humiliation on the world stage.

humiliation that he has never experienced in his 19 years ruling. can we truly expect the wagner military forces to integrate with the russian forces, and what are the russian forces thinking at the point? what's the mood of the russian army? are there potential problems brewing there? >> the things i'm watching, number one, is where does prigozhin land? you know, if first prize was to conquer russia and march to moscow, and second prize is you live in belarus, not a really good deal. i'm kind of watching what happens within. here is something i learned watching "game of thrones." if you go for the king, you better kill the king. >> right. yevgeny's head, what pillow it sleeps on or what

pole it ends up on outside a city. watch shoygu, the minister of defense. i met him on several occasions. he is not an impressive figure in any dimension. he could be part of the collateral damage here. i think that would be an indicator. number three, as we've been talking about, watch for putin's next tactical set of moves. final thought here, the big game, the really big game are 6,000 nuclear weapons all over russia. i assure you, the pentagon, the supreme nato headquarters, the white house, everybody is asking not, where are the carriers? that's what presidents used to ask. these days, they may be asking, where are the nukes? who has access to them? as david said a moment ago,urkm >> precarious. retired four star general james stavridis, thank you very much.

we'll be following this throughout the morning. ahead on "morning joe," new reporting for what tipped the scale for prosecutors in the decision to pursue the classified documents case against donald trump. we'll have the latest on trump's mounting legal troubles and its impact on his white house campaign, as new polling shows the former president is building on his lead over the gop field despite his recent indictments. and democrats warn of a very real threat of trump winning in 2024. plus, republican primary contender chris christie gets booed for criticizing the former president. we'll show you his response to the conservative crowd. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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half past the hour, welcome back. christian conservatives will have a big role in the 2024 election, and many are still backing donald trump. fellow 2024 candidate and former new jersey governor chris christie was booed as he spoke at the conservative faith and freedom conference on friday. take a look at how the audience reacted when he began criticizing former president trump. >> he's let us down. he has let us down because he is unwilling. he is unwilling to take responsibility for any of the mistakes that were made. any of the faults that he has and any of the things that he's done. and that is not leadership,

everybody. that is a failure of leadership. [ crowd booing ] you can boo all you want. but here's the thing, our faith teaches us that people have to take responsibility for what they do. people have to stand up and take accountability for what they do. >> chris christie's campaign told nbc news the former governor wanted christians to see how their support of trump does not line up with their faith. joining us now, former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele and nbc news's vaughn hillyard. michael steele, i'll read from the faith and freedom mission statement. we believe it lies not in the government but the character of our people. chris christie was trying to tell them the truth about donald trump, and these members of the faith and freedom coalition were

not having it. >> yeah, it's amazing when your politics clashes into your rhetoric and your faith, especially rhetoric about your faith. i thought chris christie handled that expertly. he held up the mirror, which a number of us have been doing for a long time now. that is, trying to reflect back to them exactly what they look like and what they sound like and how it is incongruent with their stated values, their stated principles, their stated goals. and the fact and what's important to note about that was when he told them, "you can boo all you want. it's not going to change what you already know. it's not going to change that this is this contradiction with who you say what and who you are." what happened? they applauded him. they applauded. there were a couple of whoops there. they were in agreement with that, and that is the inherent

conflict inside the republican party and has been since those failed candidates in 2016 were unable to lock on that moment, like that, and say, "hey, i get this new thing. it's exciting and it's different and it's cool and it's dangerous and it's wild. but it's dangerous." >> yeah. >> "it's not good. it's not who we are." i thought he did a good job of holding that mirror up, mika, and letting them see exactly who they were. we have some new nbc polling to get to. vaughn hillyard, let's first talk about your reporting on democrats really concerned about 2024 and trump. >> this reporting stemmed from a lot of private conversations of democrats who are concerned heading into november of 2024. not with necessarily their side of the ticket, to be clear, but also an understanding of what donald trump and what kind of referring to the potent minority

brings here. that is where this new nbc polling makes it very clear just what that support for donald trump could look like in a general election. i had conversations with mandela barns, who narrowly lost his wisconsin senate race last year to ron johnson, a close ally to donald trump. i talked to tim ryan, who lost by a decent margin in the ohio senate race to trump ally j.d. vance. there are realities in these battleground states that in 2020, donald trump turned out a record number of votes on behalf of republican nominee. in each of the battleground states, more than any republican nominee ever. that's where these conversations are heading. if you look at the new numbers from nbc polling, this is where kind of that begins to open up that conversation. >> yeah. let's get to those numbers right now. despite facing federal charges, the new polling shows that donald trump is expanding his lead in the 2024 republican primary. in the latest nbc news survey, trump is the top choice of 51% of gop voters.

that's up from 46% in april. in second place with 22% is florida governor ron desantis, whose support has fallen by nine points since the last poll, which was taken before he officially entered the race. although trump remains popular among republicans, just 34% of all registered voters view him positively, while 56% view him negatively. 55% also say the recent charges against trump give them major or moderate concerns about the former president. as for his most likely 2024 general election opponent, incumbent president joe biden, 43% approve the job he is doing in office while 53% disapprove. that's essentially unchanged from april. and in a hypothetical 2024 matchup between biden and trump, the current president leads the former president 49% to 45%.

that's within the poll's margin of error. there you go, vaughn. it's bad headline after bad headline for trump, yet, general election is biden up next barely. i think there's always for any incumbent president, the economy loom answer issue. they've been getting good news on that lately, and we have a week's worth of events of biden talking about the economy this week. the poll really crystallizes the dynamic, right? trump is only increasing his grip on the republican party. for them, a lot of warning signs for next year. >> exactly. that is where the number, 49% for joe biden, 45% for donald trump, this is a national poll. you know what nbc news poll the final week before the 2020 election was? joe biden over donald trump by 10 percentage points. >> yeah. >> this is plurality voting. if we have potentially third-party candidates from cornell west to no labels, you don't know where the economy is heading. that is where in some of the numbers, yes, when you're looking at approval ratings for donald trump, they're not great, but when you have only 45% of

the country saying the classified documents indictment is either of minor concern or no concern at all, that is a glimpse into what donald trump has to work off of here. you are talking about a guy that, a country in which 35% of the country has a negative feeling toward the fbi here, for donald trump here. this is an opportunity to essentially make the case to allies, other republican elected officials, that, look, american, at least the republican party, are not turning against me despite all this here, and at least they have a foundation to work off. if you get 43%, 44% in a november election, that could be enough next november to win it. >> i want to go to my friend michael steele now, the former rnc chair who knows republican politics backwards and forwards. in 2016, there was still a little bit of delusional thinking, that at some point, oh, donald trump was going to go away. i think now, by this stage in the game, people aren't as

delusional, but people were surprised donald trump had such strength in this nbc poll. it's what so many people have been saying for a while now if you're really watching the republican electorate. what would it take, in your estimation, for donald trump not to be the 2024 nominee? >> an act of god. i don't know. think about it. this man, i mean, 37 count indictment. his numbers go up. yeah, this is baking itself in, in a way, that i just don't see any of these candidates that are running against him in this primary, not just chipping away, elise, but actually gaining enough sufficient ground to become a credible number two, to narrow the race to just two

people, that, you know, would excite and bring into the mix those republican voters who are about 60% of whom do not support or do not vote in primaries, republican primaries. that's a big number. there are lanes there that can be created for that. but i just don't see where that comes down at this point. donald trump is one of these political figures, once in a lifetime, unfortunately for us it's our lifetime, that has this kind of hold on a political party that, by the way, he could give two rats patooies about. this is going from one vehicle to the next. it's a petter driving political car for him, that he can manipulate the gears seamlessly, easily, and it's exampled in the polling that vaughn is sharing with us. this is the kind of hold he has.

so, yeah, who takes him out? i think even god almighty is saying, well, we may need to have a meeting on that, you know? >> michael steele, you know what that is, though, doing better, your conspiracy theory sticking, doing better as indictments pile up. i mean, some would call that a cult. some would call that fascist tendencies. >> yeah, he plays to that extraordinarily well. again, you know, how much of that is true belief and true intent by donald trump? you know, he's a transactional guy. what do i need in the transaction to make it work for me, right? the other side of it is, people believe that. they latch onto it. it picks, you know, a side for them that they're much more

inclined toward. that's how he locks it in. it's an amazing -- we're going to be studying this phenomenon for a long time, to better understand how this country, in all that we profess, can withstand this in the future. right now, at 49, 45, and, yeah, you can say what you want about joe biden's age. say all you want about democrats. this is less about them and a lot more about a country that's inclined toward some of the things donald trump is putting out there. >> david ignatius, as biden is navigating the threat of trump, some would call that-and-a-half navigating the threat of fascism, this is why a strongman in russia, putin, has been tweaked, challenged, poked, humiliated with an insurrection. what's your biggest worry about global stability as we move toward 2024?

>> i worry that other countries in the world will begin to hedge against the possibility that donald trump really could take the republican nomination and, indeed, win the presidency. they've been holding off. they've been surprised by biden's policies if not his political numbers, so there has been a reluctance to move in that direction. but i think you could begin to see some of it. i'm sure if you're vladimir putin, you're counting the days until our 2024 election, praying that donald trump will somehow rescue from this mess. i think this is a national character test, no other way to put it. as long as the republicans tolerate a person that has done the things trump has been accused of having done,

incredible indictments, as long as they don't call him out, allow him to lead the party, this is where we are. in the politics of grievance, which is what trump's game is, every attack that's made on you only adds to your luster. you know, for the grieved, that's why you like trump. they're down on him. well, that's an immature response to politics. somehow, the republican party has to get over it. if it doesn't, we're in trouble as a country. flat out. >> david ignatius, thank you very much. nbc's vaughn hillyard, thank you, as well, for your reporting this morning. coming up, new questions about how donald trump is paying for his growing personal legal bills as he dips into presidential campaign funds to cover legal defense fees. meanwhile, trump is promising to contribute to a legal fund for january 6th defendants. we'll show you his comments,

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beautiful shot of reagan national airport. boy, there was a ground stop last night which really confused travel for a lot of people. donald trump is using some of the funds raised for his presidential campaign to pay for his personal legal fees. the former president launched his campaign in november. one penny for every dollar raised online went to the pac save america which helps cover legal expenses. now, "the new york times" reports online disclosures show 10% of donations going to the pac. that's a little bit different. that change happened sometime in february or march. according to "the times," at least $1.5 million may have been

diverted to save america. the group has been paying bills related to various trump investigations since last year.? by the way, they're going to need more money if there are more indictments. >> mika, i found this to be the least surprising story line. obviously, donald trump is not going to pay for anything that he doesn't have to pay for. he figured out a way to get the cash, you know, to fund his legal troubles. i'm surprised he didn't even do it earlier. you just -- you remember at the end of 2020 campaign when there was something that set up old people to continue to make a recurring donation. it was scamming a lot of old people. i mean, this is just classic donald trump. any time you're contributing to him, you basically should just know that you're making a direct

contribution to whatever donald trump wants to do with your money. >> what might be most troubling is trump supporters would love that. former president trump promised to make a contribution to the legal fund supporting the rioters charged in the january 6th attack on the capitol. trump made the pledge at a fundraiser on behalf of those defendants which was hosted at his bedminster, new jersey, golf club by the patriot freedom project, a group founded by family members of those charged. trump's speech was filled with misinformation and conspiracy theories about the insurrection. jonathan lemire, your thoughts? you think it can't be more twisted, but this is twisted. >> bottom keeps getting lower. why not? he called january 6th a beautiful day. he promised to pardon most of the january 6th rioters. he has suggested he'll make a

contribution to the legal defense fund. let us not forget, he's appeared with a january 6th choir convict pause that's donald trump right now, richard haass. >> wow, convict choir. >> convict choir, which we should never lose sight of and bring it up at least once a week. this is where we are with january 6th. it's not just trump, though. some of the other republicans are saying they'd do the same thing. not the contribution to the legal defense fund, but desantis said he'd pardon some. pence said he probably wouldn't, nikki haley either. if january 6th continues to be normalized, like, what could it mean for the 2024 election? >> side note, the fact that donald trump would contribute to a defense fund, i'm not a lawyer, but these people could be called on to testify against him. he would potentially be paying money to people who could be

called upon by the justice department to testify against him. >> the only flaw with that, richard, is we're assuing donald trump is going to give away any of his own money. >> exactly. >> fair enough. the fact of regularizing january 6th, that's the single scariest thing. what is that? that is the use of violence for political purposes by non-state actors. that happens to be the textbook definition of terrorism. i spent three yeas as the u.s. envoy to northern ireland. before that, you had three decades of the troubles. what were the troubles? sporadic, decentralized political violence by these groups, provisional ira, loyalist groups, whatever you call them. if january 6th ever gets normalized in this country, we could have the american version of the troubles. we could have assassinations. we could have political rallies disrupted by people going into them, beating up people on the other side.

what january 6th should teach us is it can happen here. we are not somehow so exceptional, so different. plus, we're a country awash in guns. it's also very easy to go into any hardware store and buy the ingredients of explosives. we shouldn't fool ourselves. the fact the republican party and others are not prepared to delegitimize this, every religious leader on friday, saturday, sundays ought to be denouncing this sort of thing. there can be no space in american democracy for this sort of thing, or there won't be american democracy. >> i see a real challenge here, michael steele. i mean, you saw chris christie getting booed, trying to tell christians the truth about accountability, about the difference between right and wrong, and they were not having it to an extent when it comes to donald trump. this now, paying for the legal defense of j-6 protesters,

insurrectionists, that's a complete distortion or not just christian values, american values. >> it is. but i think to richard's point, i think, it is an important one, donald trump ain't putting any money out there for nobody. >> oh no. >> remember, this is the same guy who told people, "y'all go out and do all these bad things. don't worry, i'll pay your legal fees." right, he's not paying his own legal fees. you're paying his legal fees. we just talked about that. he's skimming 10% of every dollar you send him to pay his legal fees. he's not paying them. what the hell makes you think he is going to pay yours? what makes you think he is going to pay for your legal defense? but they don't care, and that goes back to the point i was making in the last segment. >> right. >> this is less about where the politics is and a lot more about where the american people see themselves. how they see the country. how they see their neighbors. hell, how they see their own

family members. i mean, this is what we're talking about. we're talking about such a stripping away of the essence of how we characterize ourselves and how we looked at our responsibilities as a country. not just to our friends and allies around the globe, but most especially the neighbor around the corner. when we see them as others, mika, that begins to strip away that humanity, that thing that would, in the past, have us look at january 6th aghast, outraged, and condemn any politician who would suggest otherwise. condemn any politician or particularly any party that would advocate letting those people off. we're beyond that now. now, we're seeing an embrace of it in a way we should be really concerned about, to richard's point. >> that's what i'm focused on.

i know donald trump's won't pay anybody's legal bills, but he'll get other people to. he will normalize supporting people who attacked our democratic process. that is more trump like, fascist like behavior that is taking hold in the mindset of his base, which is still very much there. richard haass, thank you very much for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest out of eastern europe this morning following a short-lived revolt led by a mercenary group in russia over the weekend, including what u.s. intelligence agencies knew about the wagner group's plans before it happened. plus, our next guest says the rebellion has exposed president vladimir putin's weakness. we'll explain and look at all the implications ahead on "morning joe."

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this is the top of the hour. look at that beautiful shot of new york city on this monday morning. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, june 26th. joe is on assignment this morning. jonathan lemire, elise jordan and michael steele are still with us. our top story this morning, of course, the breaking developments out of russia, where the head of the mercenary wagner group launched the most direct challenge to vladimir putin's grip on power in his 19 years as president. it started on friday when yevgeny prigozhin posted a video to social media. in it, he suggests russia's invasion of ukraine was launched under false pretenses, before accusing russian military

leaders of bombing his own soldiers. prigozhin vowed to retaliate, and his forces began their movements east. soon after and by early saturday morning, prigozhin's wagner group had claimed control of a military command center in southern russia. video shows civilians filming soldiers and tanks on the streets of the russian city, as other wagner forces continued their push north toward moscow. it came as russian president put putin made a televised address, calling prigozhin's army and his armed mutiny treason and threatening to punish anyone who turned against the russian military. then, on saturday night, just as quickly as the conflict began, it seemed to end with belarusian state media announcing that its president, alexander lukashenko, a close putin ally, had mediated an agreement where prigozhin agreed to stop his army's

advance north and turn around. in exchange, prigozhin would be exiled to belarus. none of that make sense. joining us now, the editor of "the new yorker," david remnick. former officer with the cia, marc polymeropoulos. and staff writer at the "atlantic," anne applebaum. anne, your piece, "putin is caught in his own trap." you write, democratic politicians spend a lot of time thinking about how to engage people and persuade them to vote, but a certain kind of autocrat of whom putin is the outstanding example seeks to convince people of the opposite. not to participate. not to care. not to follow politics at all. the propaganda used in putin's russia has been designed in part for this purpose, the constant provision of absurd, conflicting

explanations and ridiculous lies, the famous firehose of falsehoods, encouraging many people to believe there is no truth at all. the result is widespread cynicism. if you don't know what's true, after all, then there isn't anything you can do about it. protest is pointless. engagement is useless. but the side effect of apathy was on display yesterday, as well. for if no one cares about anything, that means they don't care about their supreme leader, his ideology or his war. russians haven't flocked to sign up to fight in ukraine. they haven't rallied around the troops in ukraine or held immotive ceremonies, marking their successes or deaths. they haven't openly condemned the war but haven't supported it

either. anne, perhaps russians might be hearing the narrative that the war in ukraine, they may have on questions about it. >> i was very struck by the attitudes of the crowds in rostov on saturday. you didn't see people resisting prigozhin. you didn't see the soldiers looking particularly worried about being there. they were going off to get coffee at the fast food restaurant that used to be called mcdonald's. you saw prig goesprigozhin sitt the local military commanders in their headquarters. you didn't see very much resistance. i can only conclude from that that people weren't ready to fight back, to stand up for their state or their leader. you saw the same thing with pri prigozhin's team of men who were on a normal highway, going toward moscow. they met a little fire at one point, but they got 500 miles into the country without major

resistance. again, my only conclusion is that neither the army nor anybody else was particularly willing to push back. one of prigozhin's messages has been, for the last several weeks and months actually, is that the war is being fought badly, that the people fighting are being badly treated, they don't have enough weapons or equipment. he even said on friday or just before he launched this crusade friday and saturday, he said, you know, "look, i don't even know why we are fighting this war. it is being fought because the commander of the military, the defense minister, wanted to have a higher rank. it is being fought because oligarchs wanted to make more money in eastern ukraine." he is offering a very different message from the one that putin is offering. as i said, you didn't see over the weekend that much pushback. >> david remnick, what are the

chances prigozhin survives this? this story isn't over. i don't sigh him going to belarus and living out the rest of his life there. we're watching the right now of this, where is he, where is putin? what shoe drops next? also, could you talk about the geopolitical implications here? whether he murders prigozhin and gets rid of him, the damage has been done. putin has been humiliated for the first time basically in his presidency. on the world stage and massively so. what geopolitical implications does this have? reaction from other countries like china. >> here, you have somebody who was believed to be the great wizard of oz, the great strategist, the chess grand master. now, the curtain has been ripped back, and he is very weak. he is confused. we still haven't heard from him, again, from moscow. it is not even clear he is in

moscow. his press secretary said he is dealing with papers. it is rather pathetic. he also witnesses his own population who now knows exactly what is going on. they are at war on three fronts, all due to vladimir putin. they're at war in ukraine against the ukrainians. they're at war against the west. now, in some ways, they're at war with each other. there's enormous conflict in the political and military establishments. this has all been exposed, and russians who are inclined to know about it know about it. those hundreds of thousands who have not already left the country. so i wouldn't take out any life insurance policies on yevgeny prigozhin. prigozhin is, in many ways, putin squared. prigozhin spent nine years in jail, has a criminal background, but he has succeeded in being, at first, a kind of military hero for a certain part of the

russian establishment, and now he exposes all the fissures, fractures. putin is now humiliated. if you saw the movie, "the death of stalin," about the early '50s, the eclipse of stalin and what happens then, they strike out. then when they die or they're eliminated from the scene, there is a huge power struggle. there's lots of clans and lots of factions in russian political life. if you think you're going to be succeeded by a great liberal, i'm afraid not. those people have been jailed. you have alexi navalny who is starving in jail, terrible pain and close to death. >> okay. jonathan lemire, the white house, obviously, watching this closely, and nato allies, as well, as they navigate supporting ukraine in the war

with now russia, that is experiencing instability, to put it lightly. >> yeah, u.s. officials and european capitals largely kept their mouth shut over the weekend, wanting to see what was going to unfold in moscow. perhaps we'll hear from the president on it later today. he has a public event. certainly, this is seen as encouraging for ukraine and seen as a moment where, perhaps, some doubts could be assuaged, doubts in other capitals, about how much longer can we support this effort? now, point to the tumult in russia. hey, it was our support for ukraine that led to russia's war going so badly, that led to this unrest in the country. the nato summit in lithuania in a couple weeks takes on heightened importance. marc, let's talk about the wagner group and what happens next. we don't know why prigozhin called this off. there was some agreement brokered with lukashenko, but we don't know the particulars. we don't know whether it was due to threats or inducements, why

prigozhin suddenly walked away from his march from moscow when he was a couple hundred miles away from the capital. the wagner group played a really important role in the war effort to this point. we don't know what happens to them now, where they are. we're not even quite sure what their leader is doing or if criminal charges have been dropped against him. there's reporting maybe they haven't been. do your best, your analysis as to what you think happens to the group. >> well, jonathan, it's a great question. let me paint you this scenario. how does the wagner group get integrated back into the russian military when the wagner group just killed multiple russian pilots, took down a bunch of aircraft the last 48 hours? there's a lot of questions on how this would occur. of course, there's reports today, as you noted, that perhaps the criminal proceedings against prigozhin, you know, may not have been dropped. we really don't know. you know, i think there was a lot of, you know, people's heads were spinning on saturday when all of a sudden, prigozhin, you know, stood down.

ultimately, what this shows, as has been noted by our other guests, is vladimir putin is not as strong as we all assessed. this is something, too, that i know anne has written quite extensively about. there's this conventional wisdom, or has been, in the west, the united states, leaks from u.s. officials, too, that this counteroffensive is so important because putin can outlast this. i think that has been shattered now. perhaps we can go back to, you know, the counteroffensive is important, but we actually, you know, u.s. and nato, western resolve along with ukrainian fighting prowess, we can outlast putin. that's something that i think, you know, really has to take hold. we'll see a lot of this discussion in two weeks at the nato summit, which is critical. >> and prigozhin was pretty empowered, obviously, to attempt what he attempted. otherwise, it would have been pure lunacy. he did sense some support. you've written a lot about the power of apathy in putin's

russia and how propaganda has impacted russians, in that they don't really bother to follow politics all that much, or they're just disengaged, dis-attached from it pause so many lies are swirling and it makes for a cynical outlook. do you think that is, you know, some of what prigozhin encountered as he really started to try to attempt this? >> my guess is, and it's only a guess, is that prigozhin must have expected more support. he may have even expected support from inside the kremlin. it's hard to imagine he would start marching on moscow if he didn't think anyone was going to open the gates of the city, metaphorically, and let him in. maybe that could even be one of the reasons why he decided to stop, he didn't get the reaction he anticipated. it could be that he -- you know, he has experienced a wave of popularity.

i mean, david remnick was saying this earlier, he speaks a message he thinks a lot of russians like, and he is probably surrounded by the kinds of people who like those messages, about power, strength ask, brutality and so on. maybe also, he expected more popular support than he got. as i said and as i wrote, you know, it is amazing that nobody was sort of blocking him, but it is also true that, you know, how big a popular movement can you create in russia right now either? i mean, either as a liberal democrat or as a brutal military commander or as putin himself. we're seeing a country where it is almost like people don't care what happens to it. >> marc polymeropoulos, i'm wondering what's happening inside the wagner forces and the russian forces. how do they integrate? does this humiliation of putin seep in and cause problems for putin in the military, given that he is in the middle of a hot war with ukraine that has

gone far longer than expected and has experienced far many more losses than expected? >> you know, mika, morale within fighting forces is something that's really important to build. it's critical to maintain. once you lose it, it's hard to get it back. you know, i served in afghanistan as a cia operations officer for a year. i oversaw our indigenous forces. this was something we focused on a great deal of time, and so if you're fighting, if you're a russian soldier fighting in ukraine right now, you're look looking back at the rear, at what's happening. this is hard to measure analytically, but it is something that's really important. at the end of the day, you know, ukraine is fighting for its survival, and the russian military, who are there destroy deployed in ukraine, they don't want to be there. they heard prigozhin's message about the foundations of the war

that putin has been espousing. this is something that should be taken of. there are ways to do this, and ukrainians have been brilliant on the information trolling the but zelenskyy said it yesterday and there has been plenty of twitter accounts in which it's really pushed the notion of, what are you doing here? turn around and go home. look at the chaos that is spreading. this gives the ukrainians certainly an opportunity, particularly on an issue of morale, which is hard to measure but really important. >> david, i want to talk to you a little bit, to expand out on the idea of not just the diplomatic and the military components, which are extremely important here, as we know and we've talked about, but there is a political thread that runs through this for the united states, as well. you've got the biden administration that has largely kind of, all right, let's see how this plays itself out. you know, the state department and other officials will have

their ears, you know, to the door to hear what's going on inside but not really step into the room so much at this point. you also have the politics of a presidential campaign where at least one of these presidential candidates is a huge fan of vladimir putin. assess if you will sort of the political dynamics from the u.s. side that could shape the narrative a little bit going forward as we get past this moment and then get into a political campaign. >> you're dealing with the highest stakes international politics imaginable because of the nuclear threat and because of the war itself. so many tens of thousands of people are getting killed and, quite frankly, i don't see an easy resolution to this war any time soon. i think we can all agree on that. if we look at the american political situation, it's not just donald trump who seems

friendly to putin. you have some of the leading contenders behind him, ron desantis, saying, "we have to evaluate this," and he is mouthing it all the way. the biden administration, i think we have to recognize that it's clear that we may not know much about the interworkings of north korea and some other places, but we know a hell of a lot about russia. time and again, our intelligence there has proved to be correct. that is assuring. but there's a limited amount of what we can do about the internal politics of russia. this is not something we can control. much less dimly understand it. so what comes after putin, if that's what we're facing? or how is putin going to react to his own humiliation? it's something that is not within our control. what is within our control is how we've played this, which is to be deeply involved, to be deeply supportive of ukraine, and at the same time, at the

same time, not have nato troops on the territory of ukraine. it's a very, very delicate balance. the next moves we're going to have to see are from moscow, most distinctly, not washington. >> we'll be watching for that any moment today, to see what the next moves are. david remnick, anne applebaum, marc polymeropoulos, thank you very much. of course, as we watch this unfold and ask these questions here in america, we have a former president indicted for stealing nuclear secrets. that's just another dimension of this whole thing. still ahead on "morning joe," one year after the supreme court decision to strip away abortion rights, polling shows support for the high court is dipping. we'll be joined by new york governor kathy hochul, who is working to strengthen access to reproductive health care in her state. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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rockefeller plaza for you this morning. 23 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." a new law gives doctors in new york state legal protections to now serve women in other states where abortion is banned. on friday, democratic governor kathy hochul signed a bill that legally protects doctors who prescribe and send abortion pills to patients living in other states where the procedure is outlawed. the new law essentially helps to expand medication abortion access nationwide by allowing more patients to end pregnancies without having to travel out of state. joining us now, the governkathy. also with us, the co-founder and ceo of all in together, lauren leader. great to have you both with us. governor hochul, i need to understand how this works.

it sounds like it protects the doctors, but what about the patients? >> we could protect the doctors in new york. when the patients go home, that's a different issue, talking about procedures performed in new york. we passed the shield law last year, before the dobbs decision had been passed, because it'd been leaked. we stepped up to make sure our providers would be protected if a woman comes to our state for services. half of all abortions are performed with the medication option, so we want to make sure we can allow our doctors to not be concerned about any liability against them, if they want to prescribe to someone out of state. we're protecting the doctors here in new york, but any patient who comes to new york, she will receive those services in person because we also have laws protecting against extradition or cooperation from our law enforcement with other states. we want to take a strong, bold move because we're fighting fire with fire now. that's exactly what's going on, and the republicans stop at nothing. we have to stand up and fight

back. >> so are they receiving the medication via telehealth, or do they have to come to new york? >> they don't have to come to new york. that's the beauty of how tele medicine has improved. for providers to have a conversation via zoom and have that basically patient conversation and prescribe based on the information they glean from the conversation, they can then prescribe it to the individual in another state. that's what we're protecting. we're protecting women's rights not just here in new york, but we have a moral responsibility to help women all over this country. >> and does this new law protect women -- for example, a woman in florida who receives a medication abortion through telehealth from new york, is she protected in her state for having that termination? >> she is not protected in her state from what the law enforcement authorities could do

there. but the doctor who prescribes it, because some of these states have these vigilante laws in place, and you can have bounty hunters, you know, run down our doctors. i mean, i'm sorry, these are new york doctors. they're keeping their hippocratic oath and providing services that, up until one year ago, were protected by the united states constitution. this is how we want to make sure we didn't have a deterrent. we're literally putting up a shield. it's a shield law. as i said friday, statue of liberty is in our harbor. we will be a safe haven for the women who come here. also, we're holding up a shield. the statue of liberty has a shield in her hand now to stop individuals who would try to prosecute or extradite our own doctors. >> lauren, you have a piece in "the chicago tribune" about the aftermath of dobbs. it draws on a poll that your non-profit commissioned. can you talk a bit about the findings of that poll and what you were looking into? >> yeah, look, it's an incredible -- there has been an

avalanche of polls running up to the dobbs anniversary. part of what we found, which i think was so important, is this huge divide between republican women and republican men on the issue of abortion, and on a bunch of levels. you're seeing -- we saw it in the nbc poll we talked about on friday and also in our polls. women are united across the political front in wanting government to stay out of their health care when it comes especially to the abortion pill, which is germain to what we passed in new york, but also in terms of their access to reproductive health care writ large. it's still a divisive issue, but it is more of a gender divisive issue. women across the spectrum mostly agree on this. >> governor, this is a health care issue but it is a political one. we are turning towards another election year. as you talk to democrats in your state and others, how much do you think abortion is going to loom large on the ballot a year from now? >> what's important to recognize is new yorkers know their rights are protected in our state as long as i'm governor.

there was a candidate last year who was vehemently opposed to women's rights. elections have consequence, even in the state of new york, a deep blue state, where anything can happen. we should never let our guard down. women need to show up at the polls and speak not just for themselves but women all across this country. that's what new york is positioned to do. cherish the rights we have. let people know they're protected in every way you can imagine, but also, we're the place for other women across america. >> governor hochul -- >> governor -- sorry. >> hold on one second, elise. i'm so sorry, my bad. but governor hochul, i'm curious, first of all, love what you're trying to do, to help women across the country who are in these horrendous situations, because they can't get the health care that they need. but this measure in new york would prohibit state law enforcement from cooperating with any out of state litigation against doctors who use

telehealth services to prescribe medication abortion or provide other reproductive health care. so if a woman is on a telehealth with a doctor, he or she is protected, but how does she get that medication in the state that she's in? because if she goes to a pharmacy, aren't they not going to give it to her? >> we can also have it sent to different clinics and providers. we are going to test this. >> i see. >> this has not been done before. it's not been enforced. i'm prepared to stand on the constitutional rights of the people in this country. we'll -- if someone sues us, we'll fight back, because we cannot be subgugated to people taking away women's rights. we're tired of this, tired of being victimized with people at war with women in the country, whether it's the supreme court of the united states, whether it's republicans in congress or republican governors.

my god, why don't they pay attention to the fact that women will be voting? more women vote than men. that's a good thing. there will be consequences when we take back the house next year and start letting people see that elections have consequences. >> they do. these governors who are imposing six-week bans, 15-week bans, they need to be voted out because, at this point, women are going to die or become sterilized because they can't get the health care you need. lauren, you've been jumping in. sorry to cut you off. lauren leader, you're next. >> sorry, mika. i talked to a doctor on friday who is involved in crafting this bill, and one of the things she shared to the question you asked about the mailing of the pills is that women today in the states where it is illegal or it is difficult to access, they're ordering pills from places like mexico. the benefit of a bill like the new york bill is hopefully the doctors can mail them directly to patients and they'll get them within a couple days.

governor, are you hopeful other states may follow suit? this seems like the innovation we need. i think a lot of lawmakers are struggling with how to respond to this crisis in ways that are legal, that are accessible. are you hopeful this will happen everywhere? >> new york is always happy to lead. the women's rights movement started here. abortion was legal in new york three years before roe v. wade. we're used to being leaders. yes, we have provided the template. we have the legislation. we have the language. we're happy to share that with any other governor who respects the rights of the women that they are respecting in their own states. we're happy to do it. happy to be the test case because we have no choice. again, this is a war we are in, and we have to use all the arsenal, all the assets we have to be able to win this on behalf of our women. >> so, governor, this bill takes effect immediately or when -- >> immediately. second i sign it.

doctors have patients desperately waiting for this. >> do me a favor, i'm curious as to what different aspects of this will play out as you try to make it happen, trying to get medication to women in other states, what challenges you run into and what solutions. i'd love for you to come back, even in a matter of days or weeks, to give us an update on where this stands and the impact that it is having. >> we certainly will. >> okay. governor kathy hochul, thank you very much. co-founder of all in together, lauren leader, thank you, as well. we appreciate you both coming on on this vital issue. coming up, the u.s. coast guard has ended search and rescue efforts following that submersible implosion last week. but an investigation into what happened during the expedition to the "titanic" is just getting under way. we'll have the new developments straight ahead on "morning joe."

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37 past the hour. we are learning new details about the investigation into the submersible that imploded last week while exploring the "titanic," killing all five passengers on board. nbc news correspondent emilie ikdea has the latest. >> reporter: with the multi-national inquiry already under way, this morning, the u.s. coast guard says it is convening a marine board of investigation, its highest investigaive body, to figure out what caused the disaster of "titan." >> the board will first and primarily work to determine the cause of this marine casualty and the five associated deaths. it can make recommendations to the proper authorities to pursue civil or criminal sanctions as necessary. >> reporter: authorities say they're reviewing data and voice recorders from the mother ship, polar prince, which chartered the sub out to the launch point, and conducting interviews with crew members. a research services that helped in the attempted rescue effort

shared these images of the remote vehicle from a recent dive. the recovery mission was remarkably difficult and risky. now, experts are focusing on the carbon fiber hull, amid allegations that stockton rush, amid the five killed in the underwater disaster, apparently ignored repeated warnings about the vessel. the company, closed indefinitely, says they have no additional information to share at this time. >> they didn't have any external bodies overseeing what they were doing. >> reporter: the mother of suleiman dawood who died on the "titan," opened up, saying she was originally supposed to be in the sub instead of her son. >> it was supposed to be shahzada and i going down, but i stepped back and gave the space to suleman because he wanted to go. >> reporter: christine dawood remembering her last moments with them. >> we just hugged and joked,

actually, because shahzada was so excited to go down. he was like a little child. i miss them. i really, really miss them. >> nbc's emilie ikdea with that report. time now for a look at the morning papers. "the stewart news" reports florida's new immigration law could lead to a mass exodus of workers in several industries. the law is set to take effect on july 1st. it creates new employment requirements that include random audits of businesses suspected of hiring workers that are not legal residents. 800,000 undocumented workers are estimated to live in florida. officials fear there will be a labor shortage that will leave crops unpicked, hotels short staffed, and construction sites idle. in north carolina, "the herald

sun" highlights a study on heart transplants. the researchers at duke university say using hearts that have stopped beating but are then reanimated by a machine work just as well as hearts from living donors. officials say this could expand the donor pool by about 30%. donor hearts typically come from patients determined to be brain dead. finally, "the times of trenton" reports traffic deaths in new jersey have dropped. according to the national highway traffic safety association, the state saw a nearly 11% decrease in fatalities in the first three months of the year. across the country, there was a 3% drop. the u.s. had been seeing an increase in traffic deaths since 2020. still ahead on "morning joe," why the fight for talk radio is uniting the most liberal and conservative senators. tom rogers joins us next with

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impeached twice during his time in office. the first was in 2019 over an attempt to shake down ukraine for political dirt on joe biden. he was then impeached again in 2021 for his actions ahead of

the january 6th insurrection. mccarthy told nbc news trump should never have been impeached, citing the durham report which raised questions about the fbi's investigation into the trump campaign's ties with russia. take a listen. >> mr. speaker, the proposal by mrs. greene and stefanik on expunging from the record, is that something you -- >> this is great, this is a great question. now, we find out what duham and the others, that the impeachment never should have happened. we find when durham -- >> does durham indicate the impeachment shouldn't have happened? >> exactly what he said, they shouldn't have gone forward based on the information they had. they knew the information wasn't true. >> trump wasn't impeached on anything related to durham. he was impeached on january 6th. nothing to do with durham. >> calm down. they started the very beginning -- okay.

you done asking the question so i can answer? he asked the question, and you both interrupted on that basis. i answer your questions, but don't interrupt me when i answer. is that a fair principle we can deal with each other? okay. so when you find out that they moved impeachment, they accused president trump at the very beginning of russia collusion. you found from every action of what they'd taken, especially adam schiff lying to the american public, i think it is appropriate, just as i thought before. you should expunge it. >> wow. michael steele, as nbc's garrett haake noted on "meet the press," you can expunge tuesday from the calendar, but that doesn't mean tuesday didn't happen. i mean, where do you begin here? >> that's always the -- that's always the point, mika. that's the point. you just create the confusion. you just throw crap up against the wall, and everybody is going to run around and try to figure

out, well, can they do that? what does it mean? the reality of it is, you're not -- you can't expunge the impeachment. yeah, you can take it out of the official congressional record, but it doesn't change history. it doesn't change what happened. it doesn't change the fact that you and a lot of republicans are on the record during that time talking about the very thing you said never happened and didn't exist. and they weren't saying it didn't happen and it didn't exist. so the reality of it is, this is just more confusion. again, for me, it just boils down to, how damn dumb and desperate do you have to be to continue to find a way to deep donald trump's behind out of trouble, as he keeps putting himself in trouble? i mean, look, all the stuff that we're talking about, mika, is stuff that trump did. nobody else but him. yet, these folks are just -- they're beside themselves. they bend themselves backwards and put their heads in very dark

places to protect this man. it's just astounding to me. he could care less about kevin. >> yeah. if he remembers kevin's name. >> yes. >> honestly, he could care less about kevin. don't know why he would put himself in that position. new bipartisan bill introduced in the senate aims to preserve a.m. radio. it comes as several manufacturers have already said they will no longer include the. companies like tesla and bmw say electric engines can interfere with the sound of a.m. stations. but our next guest says liberals and conservatives in the senate agree on this issue -- a.m. radio is worth saving. and joining us now, cnbc founder and "newsweek" editor at large tom rodgers. he's writing about this very

issue where there are, what, 82 million listeners? that's a lot of reach. >> you to get it, mika. 82 million people according to the national association of broadcasters listen so a.m. radio every month, and half of that is listening in cars. this is a big issue for the broadcast industry. what makes it fascinating is it touches media, politics, technology and climate all together, and you have very liberal massachusetts senator ed markey and right-wing conservative senator ted cruz agreeing on the issue. and that probably never happens. and what is at the heart of this is that you have a.m. radio stations, of which there are about 4,000 in the country, with formats where an awful lot of those stations are talk radio, conservative talk radio mostly at that, a lot of spanish

language stations, religious stations, agricultural stations. so this touches a lot of constituencies. as you said, a few manufacturers have said they're taking this out of new evs, but ford announced they oar going to take a.m. radio out of electric vehicles and new gas cars as well. so this is a huge issue for the broadcast industry. >> we should also note of course there's a public safety element of this, that the a.m. radio stations are often used to convey disaster situations, a tornado is coming. does congress have the authority to do this? can they step in and say you have to keep a.m. radios in your cars to private companies? >> i'm sure the car companies would challenge it, but the fcc probably could mandate this on a number of grounds. interestingly, gm has not committed itself. a number of the korean and japanese manufacturers have said they'll keep it.

the interesting thing about this is the radio stations have really begun to gin up their listeners on this. and the car manufacturers claim that the engines of electric cars interfere with the a.m. signal. the technology of that is questionable. you think progressives, though, would say, hey, we want more electric vehicles out there, we want to get the price down. if this is a cost issue, you'd think most progressives would say for climate purposes anything that reduces cost is good. but as you say, the federal emergency management issue here is the big one. former heads of fema have weighed in with transportation secretary buttigieg and said this would really be a problem for emergency relief. it's a huge element in terms of disaster preparation and all. >> tom, i do worry, though, if the manufacturers are saying that it changes the way the

vehicle operates, the electric motor, and there is interference, what do you say to that? i mean, i love a.m. radio. i think we need it. but at the same time, i don't want to have a bunch of malfunctioning electric vehicles. >> that's a good point. it makes me skeptical that you have toyota, nissan, a number of the japanese and korean car manufacturers who said they'll keep it in their electronic vehicles. so i'm sure a tesla could figure this out if elon took a little time off from twitter. he's figured out how to do space rockets. protecting against this electronic interference i'm sure is doable. look, when i was counsel to the house telecommunications committee early in my career, i thought anything that the a.m. radio broadcasters argued by way of policy was really luddite stuff that didn't resonate with

me. when you have seven former heads of fema agreeing on something, my tendency is, hey, it's a good idea to keep a.m. radio and elon could figure it out. >> tom, thanks for coming on the show this morning. we'll be reading the new piece online today for "newsweek." good to see you, tom. thank you. get this -- vanna white is showing no signs of slowing down after pat sajak announced his retirement from "wheel of fortune." of course. and after co-hosting alongside say him for more than four decades, white has requested a pay raise in her new deal. according to puck news, which first reported the stair, white has not received a pay increase in 18 years, though she has received some bonuses in that time. she reportedly makes about $3 million a year while pat sajak makes nearly five times that much. she temporarily took over

hosting duties while he went underwent emergency surgery for a blocked intestine back in 2019. according to "entertainment weekly," white has not yet reached a deal with the game show and i'm thinking that she needs to know her value a little bit in these negotiations. >> mika, maybe she read "know your value" and that's why she's negotiating. i hope she's doing it from a position of strength like you recommend in the book. she certainly deserves a raise. that's insane to me that she hasn't had one in 18 years, even though that is a pretty great paycheck. but she's a star. what would "wheel of fortune" be without vana white and pat sajak? >> exactly. >> she seems to be coming at it from a position of strength. they don't want to lose her. they need to up her pay. >> she's part of the brand. coming up, the fallout from this week's armed revolt in russia. what it means for vladimir

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this is just the latest chapter in a book of failure that putin has written for himself and for russia economically, militarily, its standing in the world. all of those things have plummeted. now, with trouble brewing from within, as i said, just adds more questions he has to find answers for. >> confusion and uncertainty in russia this morning after a failed revolt by the head of the wagner mercenary group. it was the most significant challenge to vladimir putin's authority in decades. we'll go over what exactly happened and what it could mean for putin's leadership as well as the war in ukraine. plus, republicans continue to veer toward an electoral agreement backing former president trump despite his mounting legal challenges, even as many voters are deeply disturbed by his multiple indictments. perhaps that's why president biden is leading trump in a 2024

matchup and a year after the supreme court stripped away abortion rights. the high court's approval rating is in the basement at just 31% we're breaking down the new poll numbers just ahead. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, june 26th. joe is off this morning. we begin with this weekend's developing news out of russia with the head of the mercenary group wagner launched the most direct challenge to vladimir putin's grip on power in his 19 years as president. it started on friday when yevgeny prigozhin, the leader of a private army, posted a video to social media. in it, he suggests the russian invasion of ukraine was launched under false pretenses before accusing the russian military leaders of bombing his own soldiers. prigozhin vowed to retaliate, and their forces began their

movement east soon after. by early saturday morning, prigozhin's wagner group had gained control of a military command center in southern russia. video shows civilians filming soldiers and tanks on the russian city of other wagner forces continuing their push north toward moscow. it comes as russian president vladimir putin made a televised address calling prigozhin's armed mutiny treason and threatening to punish anyone who turns against the russian military. then on saturday night, just as quickly as the conflict began, it seemed to end with a belarusian state media announcing that its president, alexander lukashenko, a close ally of putin, had immediate year to dated an agreement where prigozhin agreed to stop his army's advance north and turn around. in exchange, prigozhin would be exiled to belarus.

a lot of questions here about the stability of russia and global stability as well. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at political owe, jonathan lemire. former aide to the george w. bush state department, elise jordan. president of the council on foreign relations richard haass. editor for "the washington post," david ignatius is with us. and former supreme allied commander salve rhee das is here. where is prigozhin right now? where is putin right now? and what do you make of this deal they have struck? >> mika, what we don't know is at least as large as what we do know. we have not seen the details of deal, so it's hard to know if it does ever see the light of day

exactly who looks weak or seems to have capitulated more, prigozhin suppose lid apparently, and belarus, though i haven't seen pictures, may still be in russia. question is, you know, what's his political future. could he rally for another day? i don't rule that out. i thought the most interesting thing he said was his criticism of the war in ukraine, essentially calling it a totally misguided war of choice based upon false pretenses. one thing to watch is whether that resonates and picks up any momentum. putin is obviously weaker, but there's weaker and weaker. what does that mean? weakened people can be dangerous. a weaker russia raises questions with control over, for example, nuclear weapons. he's weaker but he's not out. there's lots of things i think he can do to revive in terms of, for example, suddenly the russian government could become very generous to the russian people or crack down against

other warlords who might take him on. i think it's simply premature to be writing his political obituary at this point. >> at the same time, he has tapped into a narrative about the war that certainly was percolating in russia. david ignatius, a column in "the washington post" entitled "president vladimir putin looked into the abyss on saturday -- and blinked." david writes in part, "after vowing revenge for what he called an armed mutiny, putin settled for a compromise, the speed with which putin backed down suggests that his sense of vulnerability might be higher than analysts believed. putin might have saved his regime saturday, but this day will be remembered as part of the unraveling of russia as a great power, which will be putin's true legacy. what's notable about this mad 24 hours is that putin managed to defuse the crisis without any big military confrontation.

he has been humbled by a head strong crony, to be sure, but he's still in control. it was a close shave, not a decapitation. what comes next, surely, is more trouble for putin in ukraine. prigozhin told the truth flat out in the days before his march on moscow. ukraine didn't threaten russia, and russia's invasion was unnecessary, a mistake of epic proportions, even putin, the iceman, can't freeze the burning truth of his ukraine disaster." and, david, i wonder what this means for the war in ukraine, how the ukrainians are reacting, can they capitalize on this in any way. >> so, secretary blinken said yesterday a book of failure. it's a direct challenge, again, quoting blinken, of putin's authority and his rule. what that means for ukraine right now is hard to predict, but it can't be anything good

for russia. russia's command and control structure has been rocked. a rebellion by the militia leader who was the principal fighting force in bakhmut, the biggest fight of the last year, has been an open revolt. putin was forced into the compromise, as i said, because the situation on saturday was so uncertain. wagner forces, prigozhin's followers, were marching on moscow. and i'm told that the army troops along the way were neither supporting nor hindering him. they were just watching, watching this army of rebels move toward moscow. so putin i think not knowing how he was going to stop this crisis decided to defuse it using his friend, president lukashenko of belarus. one point to note that's important today is that leading

russian journals are reporting that the investigation of prigozhin continues. supposedly, this was a deal where charges would be dropped against prigozhin and he and his militia soldiers would be free to disperse, to dispand. today's news suggests something different, a continuing vendetta by putin against this person who dared to challenge him. i would not be wanting to be writing a life insurance policy on yevgeny prigozhin today, wherever he is, whether he's in belarus or in rostov-on-don in the south. we truly don't know. again, the fundamental point for ukraine and the world is that putin has been rocked. putin had to make this compromise because he simply didn't know what was coming next for putin, you know, the control freak, the ultimate autocrat. that was a most uncomfortable

and intolerable situation, and he made a deal to get out of it. >> i think the quick deal, admiral stavridis, is how powerful does putin look if he's cutting a deal at the last minute? we don't know where either of them are, both leaders, and that's the big question. also, will belarus really take prigozhin in? is he going to make it out alive? what about the shaky deal? and what's the reaction from the russian population? we have tock looking at that and also geopolitical reaction, including countries like china. pick one, admiral stavridis. >> well, let's start with napoleon. when you're 5 5 tall and a military guy, you love to quote napoleon so i'll d so. he said never interrupt your enemy when he's making a serious mistake. that's what we're seeing right here. it's upside for ukraine, downside for russia.

and, you know, putin, dictator 101 would tell you when you are challenged like that and you put on your undertaker suit and do the speech that says in five minutes i'm going to crush this rebellion, and then you give the guy a pass to go to belarus of all places, i'm kind of with david ignatius on this one. if i were prigozhin, i wouldn't be standing near any open windows on high floors anytime soon. >> exactly. >> a lot of these oligarchs end up flying out of them. he could be doing that flight without wings pretty soon, i would say. so geopolitically, as you look around, as both david and richard said, yeah, putin is taking some hits here. i think they're actually quite serious. you see some tepid support from china. you see some conciliatory friendly statements coming out

of iran. but geopolitically, your cache is power and your absolute control, and certainly putin has taken some hits there. i'll conclude with this -- as you look across the firing line at ukraine and how this looks from kyiv, it really is high fives. it's the opportunity cost h of russian forces. it's the morale that is shaken from top to bottom in this military force. it's the intelligence opportunities. you see a lot. you hear a lot in moments of crisis like this as people get careless in their communications and pull out that personal cell phone. so putting it all together, great day in kyiv, terrible day in moscow. >> yeah. >> friends of russia are feeling diminished today, i would say. >> another thing to be watching, jonathan lemire, prigozhin has tapped into a narrative about the war in ukraine among the russian people.

there already was concern. russian mothers worried about their sons. these fighters fighting alongside prisoners, the elite and how they're reacting to this. i wonder, obviously the white house hands off, not going to get in the middle of this, but how is the white house gaming this out? >> yeah. well, to the admiral's point, u.s. intelligence had picked up in recent weeks the growing dissatisfaction and stress, the tension between the wagner group and the russian, minister of defense. that said, the events of the last weekend certainly caught them by surprise with how fast everything happened. officials kept their heads down. they were communicating with european allies. i don't don't say anything. don't spike the football. let this play out and see where it goes. they're still doing after-event assessments now, but they believe this is bad for putin and therefore good for ukrainian war efforts. they think there's a moment here that kyiv's counteroffensive has been a little slow to start. there's a chance with russia so distracted now, we don't know

what happens to prigozhin next, it's a chance for them to make some real progress, especially in the days ahead. i'm reminded of the old russian saying never give your chef a private army. the timing of this is so beneficial it seems for kyiv, not just because of the counteroffensive but there's starting to be little wobbles in washington by republicans as well as some foreign capitals on how much longer we can continue to support ukraine to this level, no that they're going to cut funding buyerly. but if the war dragons for years with our own shaky economy, how much longer can we do this? with the nato summit coming and russia looking so chaotic, this might be exactly what those allies need to see to say, you know what, we're going to double down and keep it going. >> the ukrainians are armed. they're prepared for this new offensive, already ongoing. i want to ask admiral stavridis

how much of a ground advantage does this give ukraine? is putin going to have to move resources back to russia, back to the mother land, from ukraine and give an opening there, especially when the ukrainians are probably as harmed as they've ever been in this fight? >> it's the right tactical question to be asking, and the short answer is we don't know yet. and nobody does. frankly, we all ought to be quite humble with our predictive powers at this point. but i will say that putin, if you put yourself in his shoes, you want to kind of make sure you've got units you can really depend on. he's looking more at elite forces, his air force in particular. he still is in control of that. his naval forces. he's going to want to consolidate, control, and above all the intelligence services, the people in close around him. those are not the units that are fighting tooth and nail on the

front lines in ukraine. so elise, i wish i could say yeah, this "game of thrones" moment is going to unfold and there will be a civil war in russia. doesn't look like it at the moment. if it does, then i think the entire russian war effort will collapse because putin would need to real huh start pulling troops. bottom line, i don't see a big tactical change as a result of this. this will play out as a series of strategic challenges for the kremlin in the weeks and months ahead. >> richard haass has a new piece on substack. you write in part, "yes, the events came as a surprise, but there is also the argument they or something like them were inevitable. putin rules with little ledge ma ti. he has deinstitutionalized russia and this government. there are no checks, no balances.

putin is something of a warlord, all of which makings it unsurprising that another warlord would ask, why him and not me? and challenge him. more surprising is how putin allowed an alternative to emerge and what this says about his role. the consensus among most russia experts is that prigozhin's challenge has significantly weakened putin. maybe. but autocrats tend to stay in power if they keep their nerve and maintain the loyalty of the military and security services. so far, at least, this appears to be case. moscow 2023 is not as yet tehran 1979." maybe not, richard, but this is in the middle of a hot war with ukraine that has dragged out far longer than anybody expected. this insurrection, he lost control of two cities. this is a major humiliation to vladimir putin. >> look, no argument.

and, you know, certainly it shatters the putin argument that time was on his side. that was a big argument given the previous conversation in terms of the u.s. and europe. i think it makes it harder to argue that. i'm struck -- you know, putin within his statements the other morning, mika, talked about 1917, and he tried to frame it there. i look at all this. what i think of is something much more recent, which is the soviets in afghanistan. they went in there, it was a fiasco, and that ultimately contributed to the dissolution of the soviet union. what's so ironic and interesting here, not to mention tragic for ukraine, is putin went into ukraine thinking it would be a cakewalk, thinking it would actually bolster his position at home and internationally, and it's turned out anything but. again, prigozhin's critique of the war i thought was really, really interesting. and we'll see whether it picks up support in the military who

are essentially dying for this adventure, whether it picks up support at home because there's all sorts of loss of life, and economically it's been costly. so to me, what's really interesting going forward is whether at some point putin, potentially with chinese push, decides it's time to cut his losses and whether there's just maybe a positive thing here. put aside the question of whether putin survives politically. also ask the question what it means for ukraine. might this create a circumstance where putin defines success down? because at the end of the day, let's be blunt, putin cares much ar about his own position at home than he does about ukraine. ukraine was a means to an end, to strengthen his position at home. but ultimately, what he cares most about is putin and russia. if he now decides that cutting his losses or defining success down in ukraine serves his political and personal interests at home, then i think this could potentially open up a new chapter.

>> if putin were to do that, he's got some scapegoats, prigozhin, ministry of defense. manage down victory and get out. david ignatius, let's talk about the wagner group right now, which, look, they played a bit of a key role here in certainly the battle of bakhmut, other places. it led to some of a little bit of russian success that they've had in this campaign, but they're also the tip of the spear in places like africa. this is a significant entity. its future is very much in doubt. there is some chatter on channels that they were upset they didn't turn & kept going to moscow. where do they think wagner goes, not just prigozhin, but this military force that has real impact across the globe? >> i think that's one of the key questions is whether wagner will be, can be integrated into regular russian forces, whether the army or as in their overseas

deployments, some part of the special forces. there's no question that wagner has been the toughest front line in book mute that was part of what made prigozhin so furious. we're doing the fighting. we're doing the dying. you guys, he would be referring typically to the minister of defense, you guys are sitting in moscow, you know, on your fat sofas while you're dying. you're not giving us enough ammunition. you're not paying us enough. on and on, month after month you were getting this from prigozhin. and it's true. his people were on the front lines. what's happening right now in rostov-on-don, which is where prigozhin's militia had gone when they captured the city, are they dispersing quietly? do they go back to their hometowns? do they reform their units? is there an attempt made to draw them into the russian army? those are the questions that i'm

going to be following in particular. overseas, these were largely, you know, financial deals. wagner militias were employed in africa because they stood to gain substantial wealth, mineral wealth, other special deals that kept them there. are those going to be renegotiated? let's make a final point about putin. when somebody's authority has been damaged in a way that putin's has, either they retract, recognizing that they've got to govern more carefully, or more often, frankly, they lash out to show i'm still here, i can still wreak enormous destruction. so i think the concern for kyiv is in coming days, yes, they have an opportunity to weaken putin, but they also have a significant new threat. this is a cornered rattlesnake. this is somebody who could strike very violently at

ukraine. so i think, again, to follow up with admiral stavridis, making precise predictions about how this will move next is very tricky because there are so many different crosscurrents. coming up, we'll get to the brand-new nbc polling that showed former president trump appearing to expand his 2024 gop primary lead despite his mounting legal troubles. as we go to break, here is some of r.e.m.'s hit strong "strange currencies," which is featured in the new season of "the bear" on fx. we'll be right back with more "morning joe."

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christian conservatives will have a big role in the 2024 election and many are still backing donald trump. former new jersey governor chris christie was booed as he spoke at the conservative faith and freedom conference on friday. take a look at how the audience reacted when he began criticizing former president trump. >> he's let us down. he's let us down because he's unwilling, he's unwilling to take responsibility for any of the mistakes that were made, any of the faults that he has, and any of the things that he's done.

and that is not leadership, everybody. that is a failure of leadership. [ boos ] you can boo all you want. but here's the thing. our faith teaches us that people have to take responsibility for what they do. people have to stand up and take accountability for what they do. [ cheers and applause ] >> chris christie's campaign told nbc news the former governor wanted christians to see how their support of trump does not line up with their faith. joining us now, former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele, and nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. michael steele, the faith and freedom coalition statement -- we believe the greatness of america lies not in the federal government but in the character of our people. chris christie was trying to tell them the truth about donald trump, and these members of the

faith and freedom coalition were not having it. >> yeah. it's amazing when your politics crash sboors your rhetoric and your faith, especially your rhetoric about your faith. and i thought chris christie handled that expertly. he held up the mirror, which a number of us have been doing for a long time now, and that is trying to reflect back to them exactly what they look like and what they sound like and how it is incongruent with their stated values, their stated principles, their stated goals. and what's important to note about that was when he told them, you can boo all you want, it's not going to change what you already know, it's not going to change that this is in contradiction with what and who you say you are. and what happened, they applauded him. they applauded. and there were a couple whoops

there. they were in agreement with that. and that is the inherent conflict inside the republican party and has been since those failed candidates in 2016 were unable to lock on that moment like that and say, hey, i get this new thing, it's exciting about it's different and it's cool and it's dangerous and it's to wild, but it's dangerous. all right? it's not good. it's not who we are. i thought he did a very good job in sort of holding that mirror up, mika, and letting them see exactly who they were. >> so, we have some new nbc polling to get to. vaughn hill yard, let's first talk about your reporting on democrats really concerned about 2024 and trump. >> this reporting stemmed from a lot of private conversations with democrats who are concerned heading into november of 2024 not with necessarily their side of the ticket to be clear, but also understanding of what

donald trump and -- kind of referring to as the potent minority brings here. and that is where this new nbc polling makes it very clear just what that support for donald trump could look like in a general election. i had conversations with mandela barnes, who narrowly lost his wisconsin senate race last year to ron johnson, a close ally of donald trump. i talked with tim ryan, who lost by a decent major in an ohio senate race to j.d. vance. there are realities in these battleground states that in 2020 donald trump turned out a record number of votes on behalf of a republican nominee in each of the battleground states, more than any republican nominee ever. coming up, president biden is expected to deliver a major speech on the economy during a trip to chicago this week. presidential adviser anita dunn joins us on that. - this is our premium platinum coverage map

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to despite facing federal charges, new polling shows that donald trump is expanding his lead in the 2024 republican primary. in the latest nbc news survey, trump is the top choice of 51% of gop voters. that's up from 46% in april. in second place with 22% is florida governor ron desantis, whose support has fallen by nine points since the last poll, which was taken before he officially entered the race. although trump remains popular among republicans, just 34% of all registered voters view him positively, while 56% view him negatively. 55% also say the recent charges gen trump give them major or moderate concerns about the former president. as for his most likely 2024

general election opponent, the incumbent president, joe biden, 43% approve of the job he is doing in office, while 53% disapprove. that's essentially unchanged from april. and in a hypothetical 2024 matchup between biden and trump, the current president leads the former president 49% to 45%. that's within the poll's margin of error. there you go, vaughn. it's bad headline after bad headline after bad headline for trump, yet general election is biden up just barely. i think there's always for any incumbent president, the economy is an issue. that's been good news lately. and we'll have a week's worth of events talking about that. that poll crystallizes the dynamic, trump is increasing his grip on the republican party, but for them, a lot of warning signs for next year. >> exactly. 49% for joe biden, 45% for donald trump. this is a national poll.

you know what the nbc news poll, the final week before the 2020 election, joe biden over donald trump by ten percentage points. this is plurality votings, and if we have third-party candidates from cornel west, no labels, you don't know where the economy is heading. in some of those numbers looking at the approval rating for trump, not great. but when you have only 45% of the country saying the classified documents indictment is either a minor concern or of no concern at all, that is a glimpse into what donald trump has to work off of here. you're talking about a guy and a country in which 35% of the country has a negative feeling towards the fbi here, for donald trump here, this is an opportunity to essentially make the case to allies, other republican elected officials that, look, americans, at least the republican party, are not turning against me despite all of this here, and at least they have a foundation to work off, because if you get 43%, 44% in a

november election, that could be enough next november. >> i want to go to my friend michael steele now, the former rnc chair who knows republican politics backwards and forwards. so, in 2016, there was still a little bit of delusional thinking that at some point oh, donald trump was going to go away. i think that now, by this stage in the game, people aren't as delusional. i'm surprised that people were surprised that donald trump had such strength in this nbc poll because it's what so many people have been saying for a while now, if you're really watching the republican electorate. >> so what would it take. in yourest mangs for donald trump not to be the 2024 nominee. >> an act of god? i don't know. think about it. this man is -- i mean, 37 indictments -- 37-count indictment. its numbers go up.

so, yeah, this is baking itself in in a way that i just don't see any of these candidates that are running against him in this primary, not just chipping away, elise, but actually gaining enough sufficient ground to become a credible number two, to narrow the race to just two people, that, you know, would excite and bring into the mix those republican voters who are about 60% of whom to do not support or do not vote in primaries, republican primaries. that's a big number. and there are lanes there that can be created for that. but i just don't see where that comes down at this point. donald trump is one of these political figures, once in a lifetime, unfortunately for us it's our lifetime, that has this kind of hold on a political party that, by the way, he could

give two rats' patooties about. this is like going from one vehicle to the next. it's a better driving political car for him that he can manipulate the gears seam lelsly, easily, and as exampled in the polling that vaughn is sharing with us, that this is the kind of hold he has. so, yeah, who takes him out? i think even god almighty is saying, well, we may need to have a meeting on that, you know? i don't know. >> michael, you know what that is is, though, doing better, your conspiracy theory sticking, doing better as indictments pile up. i mean, some would call that a cult. some would call that fascist tendencies. >> yeah. yeah. no, he plays to that extraordinarily well. and, again, you know, how much of that is true belief and true

intent by donald trump? you know, he's a transactional guy. what do i need in the transaction to make it work for me, right? but the other side of it is people believe that. they latch onto it. and it picks, you know, a side for them that they're much more inclined towards. and so that's how he locks it in. it's an amazing -- we're going to be studying this phenomenon for a long time to better understand how this country and all that we profess can withstand this in the future, because right now at 49-45 -- and, yeah, you could say what you want about joe biden's age, you can say all you want about democrats -- this is less about them and a lot more about a country that's inclined towards some of the things donald trump is putting out there. coming up, one of our next guests says the rebellion in

russia was one of the greatest challenges to vladimir putin's presidency. former ambassador to russia michael mcfaul joins us ahead with his takeaways.

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donald trump is using some of the funds raised for his presidential campaign to pay for his personal legal fees. when the former president launched his campaign in november, one penny for every dollar raised online went to the pac save america, which helps cover legal expenses. now "the new york times" reports online disclosures show 10% of donations going to the pac. that's a little bit different. that change happened sometime in february or march. according to "the times," at

least $1.5 million may have been diverted to save america. the group has been paying bills related to various trump investigations since last year. elise jordan, your thoughts. and by the way, they're going to need more money if there are more indictments. >> mika, i found this to be the least surprising story line. obviously, donald trump is not going to pay for anything that he doesn't have to pay for and figured out a way to get the cash to fund his legal troubles. i'm surprised he didn't even do it earlier. and remember at the end of the 2020 campaign when there was something that set up old people to continue to make a recurring donation, and it was scamming a lot of old people. this is just collapsing donald trump. anytime you're contributing to him you basically should just know that you're making a direct

in-kind contribution to whatever donald trump wants to do with your money. >> and the thing that might be most troubling is that trump supporters would love that. former president trump has promised to make a contribution to the legal fund supporting the rioters charged in the january 6th attack on the capitol. trump made the pledge at a fund-raiser on behalf of those defendants which was hosted at his bedminster, new jersey, golf club by the patriot freedom project, a group founded by family members of those chargedp founded by the family members of those charged. trump's speech was filled with misinformation and conspiracy theories about the insurrection. jonathan lemire, your thoughts. you think it can't get more twisted, but this is pretty twisted. >> the bottom just keeps getting lower. he called january 6th a beautiful day. he promised to pardon most of the january 6th rioters.

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pace, top corporate boards in the u.s. might not represent the nation's population until the year 2060. here to explain, maggie mcgrath and huma abedin. what did the study find? >> the big top line number is 44.7%. that is the percent of women currently serving on america's corporate boards. it's the highest ever rate up from 38% just three years ago. that's some of the good news. if you break out the number of women across all ethnic groups, we get a rate of 30.4%, a little under a third up from 26.5% three years ago. when you look at women of color,

that's where you see the progress stall. we have just 7.8% representation now. that's up from 5.7% three years ago. it's changing, but not fast enough. >> huma, let's dive in on that. for minority women who have historically lagged behind their white counterparts, what are the biggest take-aways? >> i thought one of the biggest take-aways in the last two years, the progress made for women of color and under represented minorities have been quite an improvement. the progress is also uneven. most of those board seats went to african-american women, so it was 86 of those seats went to african american women. 24 seats went to women of asian

american pacific islander heritage and only 14%, which i thought was a very surprising number even though the latino population is one of the fastest-growing parts of the population. i do think it's important to remind people that maybe this is one of the take-aways in this report is that the social activism that people have been participating in the last two years, particularly after the murder of george floyd in 2020 and post pandemic, companies really are looking to see how they can get a little bit more across the board diversity. so we just have to continue working at it. >> maggie, you're covering those efforts at forbes women. what can companies do to diversify their boards, to make inclusion an assumption, not just a nice to have and the

challenges they're facing? >> there are challenges. i spoke with heidi rosen. she's a veteran board director and a venture capitalist. her phone rings a lot with people inviting her to serve on boards. because she's busy, she advises or recommends these companies go to other women, perhaps younger women who don't have board experience, but have experience as ceos, cfos, operational experience that would make them terrific additions to any board. however, companies will tell her, oh, we're looking for someone who already has board experience. so her message and the message from other sources i've spoken to is we really have to appreciate the experience that women bring as founders and executives and operators even if they don't have prior board experience. >> bringing more women to the

table is what we talk about at the 30/50 summit every march in abu dhabi. we start by announcing our 50 over 50 lists. we start with the u.s. list, which is going to be announced in just a few weeks. before that, huma, we have a few judges we're going to announce for the 50 over 50 list. today we're unveiling a few more. who are they? >> helene gale is now serving as one of our judges. we're thrilled to have her. is she is currently the president of salmon college, a competitive hbcu. beyond that she is really one of our leading public health experts in this country. before that, she ran one of the oldest community foundations in the country.

she's an advocate on behalf of empowering women and girls around the world. she's a dynamic force and we're thrilled to have her be one of our judges. >> in addition to helene, i'm thrilled to say we have bobbi brown, one of the faces of the 2022 50 over 50 list. she's the founder of jones road beauty. she founded a company, sold it, signed a 25-year noncompete and started this career in her 60s. she brings entrepreneurial and operational experience that will help her identify people in fashion, beauty, retail and beyond. >> we'll be announced the u.s. list on august 1st. it is so good. maggie mcgrath and huma abedin, thank you both. we are one minute past the top of the hour on "morning

joe." it's just past 6:00 a.m. on the west coast and 9:00 a.m. on the east. we have a lot to get to this hour, including the latest on the events in russia, where this weekend saw a chaotic 24-hour armed rebellion led by a mercenary group against vladimir putin, their leader, taking on putin. we will delve into what it means not only for the future of the war in ukraine, but for the russian president himself. also ahead, fresh off its merger with the pga saudi arabia is setting its sight on a new sport, men's tennis. and later mark ruffalo will join us with a look at the new documentary that chronicles the lakota people's struggle to reclaim their land. joining us now, former white

house director of communications to obama, jen palmieri is here. jonathan lemire and elise jordan are back with us. the latest nbc news poll shows donald trump expanding his lead in the 2024 republican primary despite facing federal charges among other legal problems. while the former president remains popular among republicans, just over one-third of all registered voters view him positively. for more, let's bring in nbc news national political correspondent steve kornacki at the big board. >> a lot of interesting numbers as we look ahead to 2024, both in terms of the republican primary situation and then the question of whoever emerges on the republican side against joe biden, what dynamics would define that matchup. let's take a look at the president himself, joe biden. the bottom line number here when

it comes to his job approval rating in our poll, 43%. last time we took a poll back in april, biden was also at 43% there. any president seeking reelection at this point in his first term, to be at 43% is not a great place to be. we asked folks in this poll if they were concerned about biden's physical and mental health. more than two-thirds said it was a big or moderate concern to them, 68%. some signs of political vulnerability for joe biden. then you get to that question of he's not running against a blank slate. he'll end up running against somebody with a name. who would that person be? this is what the republican race looks like in our new poll here. donald trump with an outright majority in this poll, 51%. ron desantis is the only one

who's in double digits, but still that is a 29-point gap between trump and desantis. it really is notable when you go back to the beginning of this year, polling from this spring and back in january and december of last year, there were polls that had this trump/desantis race much closer. there were even polls out six months ago that had desantis ahead of trump. things have changed in favor of donald trump. there is as yet no sign of desantis reversing that trend and getting right back into a single-digit race with donald trump. it is notable desantis remains popular. these are with republican

voters. donald trump remains popular with republican voters. chris christie getting 5% support from republican voters. he's moved up enough where he could qualify for the debate, but still unpopular overall with republican voters. so is mike pence. then we asked republicans if it's just trump, if it's just desantis, if you had to choose, who would it be? overwhelmingly they're saying right now donald trump. they say they like desantis. they strongly prefer at this point trump to desantis to be their nominee. now we're looking at general election voters. what would that set up for the general election? joe biden, higher negatives than positives, under 40% positive. desantis starting to get very well known outside the republican party. high negatives, just 30% positive. donald trump 56% negative, just

34% positive. nobody's popular on this list, but the least unpopular on this list is joe biden. what does that translate into when we start to do trial heats here, who would you support if it were biden versus trump. biden 49 in our poll, trump 45. if it were biden versus ron desantis, 47-47. you see the weaknesses for biden, the profound unpopularity of donald trump and what you're looking at in our poll, there is a slight difference that could make all the difference in the world when it comes to a close election, just a difference of a couple points like that. while trump is behind biden by four points in our poll, bear in

mind the margin was four points in the popular vote in the 2020 presidential election, but in the electoral college trump still came within 44,000 votes of getting reelected in 2020 despite losing the popular vote by a margin that looked like this. bottom line, i think biden remains a vulnerable incumbent. the republican party for all the troubles donald trump has had in the first six months of this year, there's no sign of that grip on the republican party breaking, at least right now. >> steve kornacki, thank you very much for bringing us those polls. let's dive into them. jen palmieri, what stood out to you? >> the 43% approval rating for biden could be concerning at a different time, but this is a time where leaders are not very

popular and people are uncertain. it's a scary time. you know, emanuel macron got reelected in france with approval ratings in the low 30s. it's steady. i think that's fine. the durability of trump even in the face of the indictments is something to take in. i do still think it's too early to tell on the indictment front. i have talked to republican voters in iowa that are still concerned about trump's electability. that could start to wane, but it sure feels like desantis is not getting any kind of traction. thinking about this from the perspective of the biden white house after what's happened in russia over the weekend, 43% approval rating, not great, but steady. now i think they have the opportunity to build on that and kind of in the middle of this chaos on the world stage and

also at home, put some kind of structure around that. i would be arguing unparalleled experience at a time of chaos and uncertainty in the world stage. that is biden's strength. now, that number, about 68% of people being concerned about his age, that is a real concern people have. that is never going to go away. so how do you manage that? i think you lean into it. we saw president biden do it when he went to ireland. he talked about with my age comes wisdom. george washington said forgive me i have to put my spectacles on because my eyes have grown weary in service to my country, and that really brought people back to him. fdr, america has seen the most experienced leader of his time, the most physically challenged leader at this time at the most difficult time in the modern

world history, lead not just america but the world. i would lean into that. the age issue is always going to be there. lean into the wisdom, the experience. also, this is a very scary time and what happened in russia shows the scary time. >> and what is still happening. that story is not over, which we'll get to in just a moment. i'm worried, jen, about conspiracy theories sticking with voters and this effort to unimpeach donald trump. trump saying he wants to pay for the legal fees of january 6th rioters or get over people to, which would be more like him. and here's chris christie. he's trying to tell conservatives the truth at the faith and freedom coalition conference. take a look what happened. >> he's let us down. he has let us down because he's unwilling to take responsibility for any of the mistakes that were made, any of the faults

that he has and any of the things that he's done. that is not leadership, everybody. that is a failure of leadership. you can boo all you want, but here's the thing. our faith teaches us that people have to take responsibility for what they do. people have to stand up and take accountability for what they do. >> so just some applause at the end to take note up. this is what biden's up against. he can tout wisdom and experience, but if they're believing that donald trump is okay given everything that chris christie is laying out for them, they're on board. they're on board with conspiracy theories. they're on board with someone who has fascist tendencies, and they don't care what he's done. >> i think even chris christie broke through a little bit

there. i don't think chris christie thinks he's going to be the nominee. i think he thinks i'm the wrecking ball. even he broke through there a little bit. biden, what you have to do, show things work like the highway 95 that broke down a few weeks ago. it's back up, it's running. there's more of that to come. show tangible, real-life specific details of government working i think is the best antidote. >> i hope. >> it's asymmetric warfare, but i think the best you can do is break through with reality. we're going to get back to that in just a moment. we're learning more about the weekend's brief rebellion in russia. on saturday a former ally of russian president putin occupied one city and began advancing on moscow before a deal was brokered and the campaign was called off.

keir simmons has the details. >> reporter: reasserting authority, or trying to, this morning new video of russia's defense minister, the man who faced a mutiny this weekend, pictures overseeing the ukraine operation. sergei shoigu also controls russia's nuclear arsenal. other images have not been widely broadcast here. russians in the city of rostov-on-don cheering for the leader of this weekend's aborted rebellion, even taking selfies with yevgeny prigozhin. his insurrection bringing the country to the bring of chaos, his mercenary troops closing in on moscow. the deal was brokered by belarus leader lukashenko. apparently allowing the man behind the insurrection to go

unpunished and into exile. russian tv commenters are saying a senseless massacre was avoided with maturity. beijing saying it supports russia maintaining national stability. >> i think we've seen more cracks emerge in the russian facade. it is too soon to tell exactly where they go. >> some commentators in russia are calling for the mutiny leaders to be punished, even executed, pointing to president putin's reputation for not easily forgiving betrayal. >> prigozhin should be very careful around open windows in belarus. >> reporter: in rostov-on-don, tank tracks and questions. how can one in a situation where we are in conflict with another country have an internal war as well, this man says.

vladimir putin's power challenged like never before. on saturday the president called it a stab in the back. how will he and russia respond now? >> joining us now, writer and founding partner at puck, julia yaffi. former chief of staff jeremy bash. and former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul. ambassador, we'll start with you. just give us your reaction to a breathtaking couple of days there in russia. what do you think it means for vladimir putin right now? >> lots of wild chapters changed over the last 48 hours. you had a mutiny with mr. prigozhin. as they were marching to moscow,

not to overthrow putin, but to get rid of the corrupt military leaders. as they were marching to moscow, both sides blinked. putin didn't escalate. he negotiated. he cut a deal. i'm not sure if the deal is going to hold. we don't know the details. right now that mines prigozhin will go to belarus. his soldiers will either join the regular forces or most certainly disarm. that's part of the deal. i think the overlying message here is putin is not as invincible and as all powerful as we sometimes believe. and, secondly, this is very important with respect to the war in ukraine. we've had debate about what happens if we do this or that or provide this weapon or that weapon. well, putin is going to escalate. he's the rat in the corner and he can only escalate.

in this episode, he didn't escalate. he backed down, he negotiated. that doesn't mean he'll do that in ukraine. but the hypothesis that he'll always escalate and he needs to win somehow in ukraine, i think has been radically challenged by how he handled this crisis this weekend. >> this episode shows that putin isn't as all powerful and strong as we sometimes overestimate him to be. do you think this bolsters ukraine's standing among nato allies to convince them to keep supporting the mission in ukraine as some support had been questioned in recent months? >> yes. i think now is the time to double down our support for ukraine, both in washington and throughout the west. i was not somebody who thought that putin was invincible. in fact, the last 16 months have shown major strategic mistakes by putin. i think the biden administration has correctly pointed out that

this is another evidence, as if any more were needed, that putin's entire invasion of ukraine has been a fiasco. it has weakened putin at home and has strengthened support by nato allies and by the west for ukraine. now is a time to double down our support for ukraine, to send them additional advanced weaponry, to provide funding for them and to make clear that now is the time for them to make gains in their counteroffensive. if i were prigozhin, i would hire a food taster, because i don't think this is over yet. >> this story is certainly not over. how do you think this is going to shape attitudes in the russian military as it pertains to the war in ukraine that already might have been wobbly and among the russian people?

what are you hearing? >> what i'm hearing would kind of temper the triumphant narrative we've been hearing a lot in the u.s. yes, this has definitely shown putin's weakness. yes, it has shown he doesn't control everything and he is a master procrastinator. people have been howling about the prigozhin problem. i wrote about it in december. people have been talking about it ever since. this was an intelligence failure at home, a military failure, et cetera. but in the end, putin prevailed. and in the end, most people in moscow, including the elites, didn't join prigozhin. he was greeted clearly as a folk hero, as you're showing in rostov. but in the end, russia held. the putin regime held. now putin can show that, look,

the alternative to me is just as heinous as i've been telling you. it is fascism. it's going to make me look like a care bear. let's be clear. prigozhin is a torturer, murderer, is completely insane and fascist. and, two, putin can now do and probably will do what erdogan did after a failed coup back in the summer of 2016, which is clean up shop, purge whatever elements he thinks are disloyal or didn't function correctly in this emergency that unfolded over 24 hours and turn the screws on what's left of people who don't agree. i wouldn't even say the opposition, because they're all in jail or abroad, but whoever doesn't agree at home. again, i don't think this is over by any means and i don't

think it's as clear cut and triumphal as we've been making it out to be in the american media. >> ambassador mcfaul, i'll ask you to jump in as well. also in the mind of vladimir putin, he has been humiliated on the world stage. i just wonder if we may see something different from his behavior because we've never seen him in a situation like this in 19 years of his presidency. >> what i'm most interested in are what are the russian soldiers on the front line in ukraine thinking about this fiasco, about this mutiny. we don't know. i know the message prigozhin was sending to them that your leaders have lied to you. this is all a farce. there was no threat from nato. those are things said on this

show all the time. prigozhin was saying those things. you know who was echoing them yesterday? president zelenskyy. he also understands that is the crucial thing. will they continue to fight or will this be an opportunity for defections and rethinking what is the purpose of this war. we don't know the answer to that, but this is what i think we should be focused on. i know that is what the government in kyiv is focused on. >> michael mcfaul, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," president biden will travel this week to chicago, where he is expected to address the impact of his economic policies. senior biden advisor anita dunn will join us live from the white house with a look at what the administration has dubbed biden nommics. bed biden nommics. my active psoriatic arthritis can make me feel like i'm losing my rhythm. with skyrizi to treat my skin and joints, i'm getting into my groove. ♪(uplifting music)♪

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welcome back. it's 25 past the hour as the

2024 campaign season heats up. president biden is hitting the road on wednesday. the president will deliver what the white house is calling a major speech in chicago to highlight how his economic policies are paying dividends for the american people. for more, let's bring in white house senior advisor anita dunn. great to have you on. i guess we start by asking you to define bidenomics. >> thanks for having me on this morning. if reaganomics was based on the idea if you cut taxes for the wealthy at some point the remnants will trickle down to the working class and the middle class. bidenomics is the exact opposite. it says the way to grow the economy is to grow the middle class.

you invest in manufacturing, you invest in the kinds of jobs that are going to give people the chance to get ahead. you invest in american workers. you make sure they have the education and tools they need, because you give an american worker the tools, they can go anywhere. and you go after the idea that competition lowers prices and creates more room for competition and everybody to grow. it's about the investments in clean climate technology, in infrastructure across this country, in chips, in making sure the supply chain is here and making sure things are made in america by american workers. >> i know you can give me a number of reasons as to how and why it's working. and this president certainly has a lot of wins during this presidency as it pertains to the economy and creating jobs. but some would ask why it isn't

translating into more support for joe biden. >> i think what you're seeing right now is people are just starting to really feel the effects of these programs that were put in place the first two years of joe biden's presidency. he had a truly historic rate of success when it comes to major economic programs that are building the foundation and the infrastructure for america to lead the world, not just in innovation, but in manufacturing, in the number of jobs we've created in exports again. people are starting to feel that now. today the president will announce that we are ready to complete the process of making sure that every american in this country has high speed broadband. this is a huge thing for the 7% of people in this country, millions of people who don't have access to it. it's the most significant public investment probably, infrastructure investment since the rural electrification

program of the 1930s . this matters to people and they can feel these things. when a bridge gets rebuilt quickly on i-95 in philadelphia, you feel that. when the roads get widened so it doesn't take you as long to commute to your job, you feel those things. when your insulin that used to cost $200 a month costs $35 a month, you feel those things. we will be continuing throughout this summer to make the point this is really making a difference in people's lives in those communities that were hollowed out over the last 40 years where manufacturing moved overseas and people lost that sense of pride and hope and those factories are starting up again with the technologies of the future. that is bidenomics. >> we all understand there is a risk when you sort of self-brand your economic policy, particularly at a time when most

of the american public are still feeling uncertain about the economy. but you decided it was worth doing that anyway and you decided now was the time. why is it worth that risk if it could very easily be coopted by republicans? >> even if the economy is doing well, the republicans will say it's doing poorly. so we're not going to spend a huge amount of time worrying about them. the american people have seen the huge successes. they really need to understand why joe biden feels so strongly about transforming this economy so it works in the middle class and they need to understand that at the core of his value system and his beliefs is this idea that economic growth depends on the growth of the middle class. if you grow this economy from the middle out and the bottom up, not the top down, you give

working people a chance to get ahead. you make the middle class more successful, let them continue to grow. that's how we grow this economy. that is everything that underpins his program. so it's an appropriate time now that everything is in place and some of these huge effects are just starting to be felt to really go out and define for the american people what this is all about and why it's going to work for them. >> thank you very much for being on the show this morning. let's bring in andrew ross sorkin, who's live in colorado for the aspen ideas festival. nbc universal news group is the media partner of the festival. andrew, what are you looking at this morning? >> we're looking at the reaction really of the markets which has been quite muted to this mini moment of tension over the

weekend. there had been concern about what it would do to the market. there was expected volatility. you saw oil move up. all of that has actually been quite muted this morning. that is good news. i know it's strange to say the devil you know versus the devil you don't is how a number of market participants have been describing this situation. the big thing going forward is how this changes the relationship between russia and china. for now, the market is taking all of this quite in stride. >> saudi arabia made a big splash in the professional sports world a few weeks ago with the pga golf merger. looks like they're eyeing another sport, professional tennis. talk to us about it.

i guess it makes sense that it would be easier to do this when the athletes involved are independent contractors as opposed to in the team setting. >> we talked about this on the broadcast when this first happened with golf, we said this was going to be the first of many. in fact, what saudi might try to do is to pick off other sports. a lot of people talk about green washing. the phrase in the sports world is sports washing. is that what saudi is trying to do? the saudi ambassador was here yesterday with andrea mitchell. there's been lots of conversation about where they going and what they're trying to do. tennis is an easier one to pick off, because they are independent contractors. tennis as a business has been a challenging business quite broadly. so this may be the beginning of something larger. could they eventually go after nba players? it is possible.

i think in the immediate term what you're seeing is them talk to the atp about hosting events in saudi. that would be the beginning of this. the lesson, by the way, of the whole fight with the pga creating their own liv tournament and company, the lesson might be to try to do something earlier than that. we will see. we're going to talk to mary barr from general motors in a little bit. we have the ceo of chevron. we are a partner of the aspen institute. i just wanted to mention, jim crown, who was really an institution here, was killed yesterday in a tragic car

accident. jim crown was a trustee of the aspen institute, a friend of this event. you're looking at the aspen ski mountain behind me. the crown family owned this entire mountain and frankly this town. he was a board member of jp morgan chase. the crown family own a piece of rockefeller center, where nbc broadcasts from. it was his 70th birthday yesterday. i just wanted to wish my condolences to the family of the crowns and paula, his wife, on a tragic event and something that has been talked about a lot here this morning. >> i can imagine. thank you so much for bringing us that news. i am so sorry. thank you very much. and coming up, while donald

trump expands his lead over the 2024 gop field, a new column in national review asks can trump be defeated if you never say his name? we'll dig into that question next on "morning joe." we'll dign next on "morning joe." tired muscles and joints were keeping me from doing the things i loved most. not anymore. blue-emu gave me my freedom back. it supports healthy muscles and joints. blue-emu, it works fast, and you won't stink.

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if you don't win, there is no substitute for victory. we've developed a culture of losing in this party where we've had three successive elections with sub standard results. not in florida. we had a red wave in florida. we showed what it means to win and win big. for the first time in our state since the era of the civil war and you're not going to get a mulligan on the 2024 election and you're not going to be able to make any excuses about the 2024 election. the time for excuses is over. you're either get it done or yo

don't. >> that was ron desantis. rich lowry writes in part, ron desantis, honored the norm that has grown up among most republicans of never saying trump's name if they don't have something nice to say. i understand the calculation here. a lot of republicans are open to someone else, but don't want trump criticized. so you get this in between approach. it might make sense for now, but it's hard to see how it works in the long run. chris christie, who is on a very different path and has a different theory of the case was perfectly willing to get booed for criticizing trump and then go out and unapologetically make the case for what he's done. most republicans aren't ready to hear this, but christie is going

to get credit for his willingness to speak his mind and stand up for what he believes. >> i think chris christie is probably having some kind of impact. i don't know what the right thing to do here is if you're desantis. he got into the race a month ago. it is june. we are not going to start attacking the frontrunner in you know. we're going to try to do well in iowa and introduce him to people and keep him clean and not have him go after the man that's very popular in the republican party. is it really early? trump is at 51% in this poll. any time you're over 50 in a primary, it could be

insurmountable. >> i think desantis has blown his early bump that he got right after the last election, which he did win by a big margin, but he was running against charlie crist in florida. it wasn't that spectacular. so he has a tiny bump there where it seemed like he had a narrative of being on the rise. he's shaping up now to be the scott walker of 2024, someone who there was a lot of expectation behind but nothing to back it up. i think it is a problem that other candidates do not attack trump by name. i think you look at chris christie. yes, he might be at 5%, but he literally just joined the race and there are plenty over well known republicans in the race who aren't as high on the board. it's a bad tactic to let donald trump just be completely unscathed and not under attack.

coming up, a new documentary about a native american tribe in the quest to reclaim its land in the midwest. the creative forces behind that project join us next on "morning joe." t project join us next on "morning joe. ride it out with the tradeoffs of treating? or push through the pain and symptoms? with ubrelvy, there's another option. one dose works fast to eliminate migraine pain. treat it anytime, anywhere without worrying where you are or if it's too late. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief starts with u. ask about ubrelvy. learn how abbvie could help you save. generalized myasthenia gravis made my life a lot harder. but the picture started changing when i started on vyvgart. vyvgart is for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are anti-achr antibody positive. in a clinical trial, vyvgart significantly improved

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and i noticed that i had more cognitive clarity. memory is better. it's been about two years now and it's working for me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. at the center of all the treaties the lakota have signed with the united states government is the black hills. >> x marks an agreement. >> most tribes have treaties with the federal government and they're all under the war department. >> and another x marks this land as ours. this is our mecca, the most sacred place in the world. >> that's why the black hills are not for sale, because we're not for sale. >> when they illegally took the land for our people, it wasn't just the land itself that was taken.

it was part of a process to colonize. >> if you can make the people suffer by destroying their economic system and their languages and their culture, then you can try to conquer a people. >> a new documentary takes us back in time to the westward expansion of the united states and the battles that resulted in the loss of ancestral lands for native americans. the new documentary "lakota nation versus the united states" explores the fight of the lakota people to get back their home, the black hills. joining us the film's codirector laura thomas eling and mark ruffalo and sarah eagle heart. you might recognize mark ruffalo from his past work and activism.

i'll start with you, mark. what drew you to this project? >> you start to hear the alternative history. there's a history that most people in america learn in the history books, and then there's the history of the people who are on the other side of that history, who we don't hear from. i've come to know these people well and know this history and feel it's imperative people well and know this history. i feel it's imperative to the spirit of america to hear both sides of the story. this documentary does that. >> sarah, tell us about this place, why it matters so much and the story that we'll learn in this film. >> well, it's literally called the heart of everything by the

lakota people. the video you saw earlier of the circular whole is actually the place that we believe we emerged from as buffalo people. so that's part of our creation stories, part of our ceremonies. it's everything to us that you could ever imagine in this life. so that's why this land is so important to all of us. >> what was it like delving into such a complex and huge issue that you could have gone in so many different directions with, narrowing it to the scope of what you can have as a film? >> i think it was certainly daunting when you're looking at over 400 years of history. you're trying to make a movie that's two hours. but what really unified myself and my co-director jesse who unfortunately got stuck in these storms and is not here today, is we were both intimidated by the weight of doing justice to the history. but especially now when there's

a war on facts and history, that this was the right time to tell this story. >> i want to show another clip. here we take a glimpse at how hollywood created a racist stereotype of native americans. >> much of what we've learned about the battle for the plains comes from what we've seen in hollywood movies. when we saw the indian defending his land, we cheered for the white man soldiers. >> the best way to kill people is to dehumanize them, to make them into caricatures, whether it's peter pan, whether it's john ford's the searchers, which is considered not just the archetype of western movies, but one of the great american films. this is a classic hollywood trope that makes invasion look

like self-defense. >> jen. >> sarah, you're pushing against this hollywood trope. what is the story you want to tell about the lakota people? what is it you want to say about them? >> well, the importance of really telling the story from the lakota perspective is everything, especially if you live in somewhere like south dakota which is where i actually grew up on the reservation. understanding that our people are very strong, that we have this oral history that we pass down from generation to generation and that the fight for the black hills is something that we will never stop fighting for. it's our home place. it's our birthplace. it's the heart of all of our spirituality. when you see these hollywood tropes out there that really portray native americans as these either sexualized pocahontas versions of women which leads to issues like missing murdered indigenous

women or these other tropes where we're not even allowed to play ourselves in movies, it's ridiculous when you think about the actual issues happening in our community today. this is just the beginning of all those stories that need to be told. >> "lakota nation versus united states" will hope in new york on july 14th and in los angeles on july 21st. thank you all very much for bringing us the story, and we'll be right back with a look at the morning papers. with a look at te morning papers ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks. skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor for crohn's that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. the majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year.

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sales tax. gas tax. californians pay some of the highest taxes in the nation. but now lawmakers are proposing a so-called “link tax” that would charge websites every time they link to a news article online. experts warn it could undermine the open internet, punish local newspapers, while subsidizing hedge funds and big media corporations. so tell lawmakers: oppose ab886, because another new tax is the last thing we need. paid for by ccia. jackie: community schools are so important to us. this is truly what students need. cecily: no two community schools are alike because it goes by what is happening in the community. rafael: we want this to be a one-stop shop for our families that puts parents and students first. kenny: the health and wellness center is a part of our holistic approach. terry: medical, dental, vision, and mental health services. we're addressing the students' everyday needs. kenny: what we do allows them to be the best version of themselves. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education.

welcome back to a look at the morning papers. we begin in california where the san diego union tribune reports the city's auditor wants to create a centralized 311 system. san diego is one of four cities without a central number for non-emergency calls. instead calls are fielded to one of eight centers which the auditor says is inefficient. let's go to the lincoln journal star in nebraska which leads with a push to get more people interested in the health care industry. the state is creating an interactive health sciences curriculum for kids in grades 3-12. the move comes as a new report finds the state's hospitals have a job vacancy rate of 10% to 15%. in minnesota, the due lugt news tribune has a front page feature on the u.s. seeing an

increase in honey bee losses in part due to a deadly parasite. according to one survey, small and large commercial beekeepers are experiencing colony loss at different times of the year. still the department of agriculture says the bee population remains relatively stable. we'll be watching that, and i know what jonathan lemire, you want us to do right now, at least what you want me to do. buzz off. >> well done. mika, i can't top that. that's the perfect sendoff for the morning. well done. >> that does it for us this morning. chris jansing and katy tur pick up the coverage right now. now. good morning. it is 10:00 a.m. eastern. i'm chris jansing from new york. >> i'm katy tur with special coverage of what's h