wagner forces who have borne the brunt many times of some of the most bloody fighting in ukraine are suddenly going to simply turn around and salute a set of at least military leaders that have demonstrated pretty much ineptness on the field. >> senator mark warner, chairman of the senate intelligence committee, thank you so much on all this breaking news. you just heard that we believe that prigozhin is in minsk in belarus. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." "chris jansing reports" starts right now. ♪ ♪ good day. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. where is vladimir putin? we do have new video of the russian president today, but we have no idea when it was recorded. where is the man who put the

whole world on a nerve's edge? yevgeny prigozhin out of sight. this is the last-known image of the wagner leader fleeing, striking a deal to go to belarus after leading an armed rebellion over the weekend. but is there a deal really? what does it say about his motive in that new audio recording? plus, the kremlin scrambling pro project control, releasing new video of vladimir putin today. we hadn't seen him in more than 48 hours since releasing a short statement during the most dramatic challenge to his power in decades. his whereabouts officially are still unknown since we don't know exactly when or where the video was recorded. president biden, though, making it clear in the last hour putin can't point fingers at his enemies. >> he gave no excuse to blame this on the west or blame this on nato.

we made clear that we were not involved, we had nothing to do with it. this is part of a struggle within russia's system. >> in about 15 minutes we'll hear from the u.s. state department with more on how the u.s. is responding. also at this hour, what the latest nbc news poll says about former president drum and his standing within his own party following the federal indictment. we begin with global uncertainty. the world looks different today than it has in decades. there's a potential power-altering crisis now under the control of russia. putin's grip on his nation and his people clearly diminished. at this hour a new audio message from yevgeny prigozhin denying a power grab saying, quote, we were going to demonstrate our protest and not the toppling of the power regime in the country. the gravity of putin's predicament not lost on u.s. secretary of state antony blinken. here he is sunday on "meet the

press." >> i think we've seen more cracks emerge in the russian facade. it's too soon to tell exactly where they go and when they get there. certainly we have all sorts of new questions that putin is going to have to address in the weeks and months ahead. >> so just how vulnerable right now is the russian leader? we, again, are still waiting to see him beyond that newly released video. maybe not new video. we don't know when. there's also video of the defense minister at the center of prigozhin's. released just days after the wagner leader sought to oust him from power. again, not immediately clear when either video was recorded. we'll bring in nbc's chief international correspondent keir simmons in moscow for us. it's just after 8:00 where you are. we haven't heard from putin

since saturday's fiery speech. what's the messaging from inside the kremlin and what's the mood inside the streets? >> reporter: you make a great point, chris. we haven't heard from president putin since saturday, since he described himself as being stabbed in the back. you showed that video which we think might have been recorded before this rebellion rocked russia. just contrast that with what you were describing there, this 11-minute audio statement from yevgeny prigozhin, the leader of the wagner group, which is absolutely stunning. it is now, of course, leading the narrative. although i don't think you'll be hearing it on russian state television. that statement he has made today talks about the fact that his army, his soldiers were not prepared as he had been told, as demanded by president putin and by the leadership here, were not prepared to sign up to join the russian military. so he is effectively saying that

he is not particularly interested in disbanding his wagner group. now, he talked about the deal that was done and the way that president lukashenko of belarus helped make that deal happen. and one piece of that he says in this audio recording. he said lukashenko extended his hand and offered to find ways for wagner to continue its work legally. so you now have prigozhin in exile in belarus making statements, insisting he will be able to continue his militia, having just turned around from potentially threatening moscow here. and even that act of sending his forces towards moscow, he says, well, i wasn't trying to oust president putin. in fact, what i've done is demonstrate that there are real problems in the security of russia. so it's an extraordinary statement, insisting he still supports president putin, but

questioning so many things that have happened in the past month, particularly with president putin's special military operation in ukraine. >> keir simmons, thank you so much. i want to bring in former deputy assistant secretary of defense evelyn farkas and retired lieutenant ben hodges. evelyn, i think keir laid it out so clearly, how unclear all this is, particularly now that we're just learning, we think, the whereabouts of prigozhin. what do you make of these late developments? >> right, chris. there's so much we don't know. clearly at this point it appears the russian government, at least they want to create the impression that prigozhin is alive. possibly he is alive and possibly he is in belarus. they have still a bit of a

crisis in dealing with the wagner group because these are hardened soldiers who are very loyal to prigozhin, especially those fighting with him in ukraine. it's hard to imagine they'd turn around and let themselves be commanded by regular russian military commanders whom by all accounts they don't have much respect for. then there's the global wagner operation, mostly located in africa and in the middle east. that's also been overseen prigozhin. for now the russian government may need him. >> do you agree with that, general? i want to give the exact quote andrea just spoke with senator warner, and what he said. this is just reports, he is in one of the only hotels in minsk without windows. >> chris, thanks. of course, i often align myself with evelyn's analysis as i've done for years.

i think it's worth keeping in mind that what we've seen the last 72 hours is not the kind of thing that occurs in annual army that believes it's on a path to victory. it exposes not only the fragility of putin's control, but also what's going on inside the military. if the report of shoigu being still on the job as defense minister is accurate, that clearly demonstrates that putin values loyalty over competence. in any other place, a guy like shoigu with all the vague yours in the production, the fact that he couldn't even stop a 400-vehicle convoy driving through russia two days ago, that level of incompetence is a good thing for ukraine. prigozhin -- i saw the tweet that senator warner was referencing, but you don't know if that's somebody being sarcastic as often happens on social media. but lukashenko seems to me to be

the big winner in this whole thing. he came out of nowhere, and now he just got a guy who is a big giant personality who could probably bring with him several thousand soldiers the way evelyn described them. and lukashenko probably has economic interests in africa of his own. this makes him a little bit more secure against a russian grab of belarus if this is accurate. >> all of which, evelyn, again, big asterisk on every single thing that we don't know. but it certainly does put to rest the idea that there was some sort of deal, any chaos is over and it's back to business as usual. >> that's right, chris. we have a lot of moving parts, things that we should question, things that we should watch. one part of it is prigozhin. let's not take our eye off the ball as the good general has never done.

the real place to be watching right now for the west, for the united states and our allies and partners is ukraine. what is going to be the impact right now on ukraine. there's a war going on there, and prigozhin is not going to save us from the reality there in ukraine, the fact that we have to continue helping ukraine with all of our equipment, with better equipment, with training, with intelligence and we can't take our eye off that ball. yes, there's a crisis in russia and putin is significantly weakened, but i don't foresee any sudden change in who is ruling russia. however, i will say if putin doesn't clamp down soon, there may be elites around him that might try to maneuver to take advantage of the situation. a lot of moving parts. i think for us we mainly meade to watch ukraine. we know our government is watching inside russia and watching the sensitive military sites, the nuclear sites. for the rest of it, we'll just have to see what we can find out

over time. >> from a military standpoint, general, what will you be watching for inukraine? a general analysis is that a counteroffensive has not exactly run over russia. having said that, is there an opportunity here that did not exist 72 hours ago? >> well, first of all, let's keep in mind for ukraine's counteroffensive, it has started, but the main attack has not started. about 20% of their forces have been committed so far. i think they're still looking for opportunit -- looking for vulnerabilities that they'll exploit with the several brigades they have that are waiting. i'm extremely bullish on ukraine's counteroffensive and the main attack when it does get started. for the russians, first of all, they're going to have to replace 25,000 troops. if that number of wagner troops is accurate, those guys are off

the table. they will not be very keen on getting integrated into the army as privates after having been paid mercenaries in better conditions. they'll have no interest in doing that, and the army hates mercenaries as much as they hate the czechins and fsb intelligence service. that's a big gap that the russian ministry of defense will have to fill. if i'm a russian soldier sitting in one of these trenches and i'm aware or growing aware of what's happening above me and behind me, you start thinking, man, i don't want to get killed here in what looks like a losing effort or might be about to collapse. no soldier wants to get killed or hurt in that kind of an environment. i think we'll see an impact on their morale. ukrainian defense minister already started communicating directly to russian soldiers saying you do not have to die here, your enemy is in moscow,

not in ukraine. >> one of the things, evelyn, that prigozhin said in his statement is that he asked his troops, do you want to integrate into the russian soldier. he said only 1% to 2% said they would want to do that. he is a master of disinformation. but given what you've just heard from the general and what you know about the situation on the ground, could that ring true to you, or at least something like it? >> it rings true to me, chris, because the one thing that distinguished prigozhin, aside from his real bloodthirstiness and brutality, although we did see that in other elements of the russian military, but the one thing that distinguished him is how outspoken he was on behalf of his troops in the field, right? no other russian commander was publicly advocating like that. and probably privately, also, not advocating for the regular conscripts because it's not part of the russian military culture to care about the conscripts.

they have a horrible history of, frankly, hazing the conscripts. i think the prigozhin warriors, they're not interested in fighting for some general that they think is more interested in pleasing the higher command than in looking out for them. >> general, we're out of time, but i want to ask you quickly, what do you think the chances are that prigozhin survives this? >> i think if it's true that he is with with lukashenko, he has a better chance of surviving, but he'll have to sleep with one eye open for the rest of his life. ahead for us, capitalizing on chaos. ukraine gets a morale boost from that russian rebellion, but will it translate to the battlefield? we're back in 60 seconds. battlel we're back in 60 seconds

we're now hearing interesting new reaction to the revolt in russia coming from

none other than ukrainian troops who greeted the news we're told with applause. one commander in the field saying any chaos and disorder on the enemy's side benefits us. there's also new reporting that ukraine's counteroffensive is facing its own fresh set of threats from russian land mines. nbc's raf sanchez is in kyiv. i'm also joined by retired colonel ben hodges. raf, prigozhin's group is credited with the most ruthless attacks so far, including the city of bakhmut. do we know where those troops have gone, are they in play? any immediate impact on the ground? all those questions. >> reporter: chris, most of those wagner mercenaries from the area around bakhmut had withdrawn already. big picture across the southern and eastern front where the

counteroffensive is raging, we have not seen any major breakthrough. we have yet to see the ukrainians find a way to capitalize in a big way on the chaos on the russian side. you can absolutely bet that officials here in kyiv very closely monitoring what's happening inside russia, looking for any weaknesses they may be able to exploit. ukrainians did announce this morning they had liberated another village in the southeast. this is the ninth village since the start of the counteroffensive. chris, they were hoping to be talking about liberating cities rather than villvillages. as you said, this is very difficult fighting. that said, we did speak with a ukrainian officer today. he said, look, even if this wagner rebellion is over for now, even if the russians aren't going into an all-out shooting match with each other, he's absolutely convinced the events of the last 48 hours have damaged russian morale and they will have an impact on russia's

ability to fight on the front line, especially with many of these conscripts who are sitting there wondering, as their leaders squabble among themselves, what thad ear doing in eat earn ukraine. >> how does this change the strategic approach to the war at this moment or does it? >> the things that are going to make their counteroffensive successful would be the destruction of the russian headquarters and russian logistics. so everything we can do to help them accomplish that with long-range precision weapons is going to reduce the damaging effect of the mind fields that they're having to clear. when they're at the minefield, they're getting hit by russian artillery. we've got to help them do that. then, of course, the information effort on the ukrainian side targeting russian soldiers saying, look, you don't have to

die here, your leaders do not care about you. this thing is not going to last forever. now is your chance. i think they're going to work hard to influence how ukrainian troops and leaders are thinking about things. in the meanwhile, they'll continue to go after headquarters and artillery and minimize or neutralize the only advantage the russians have. >> one of the biggest hurdles of ukraine's military is an incredible web of russian-laid land mines. quote, one senior u.s. military official said the fierce resistance has taken a toll on ukraine's weaponry. the united states committed 113 bradley fighting vehicles in march. at least 17 of them -- more than 15% -- have been damaged or destroyed in the fighting so far. are ukrainian troops in a position to take all this in stride? what is the concern you might be

hearing about this? give us an update from the perspective there on the ground. >> reporter: ukrainian officials from president zelenskyy on down have acknowledged progress has been slower than they hoped and this is very, very difficult fighting. in terms of the bradley vehicles, many of them were lost literally in the opening hours of this counteroffensive. there's a lot of video we have analyzed that show some of these bradley vehicles, they're designed to carry infantry quickly over a battlefield. they run into a minefield and then come under very intense russian fire. the ukrainians are very badly outgunned in the sky as they have this kind of aging flight of soviet era aircraft, helicopter gun ships. the russians have many more and much more advanced air power. at this point there really isn't much the ukrainians can do to match them in the skies. they say that's why it's so important that they get their hands on those american-made

f-16s which president biden has given the green light for the nato allies to supply. just on the minefields, chris, we spend a day with a ukrainian unit preparing to deploy to the front line in the east. they were training on american made m wraps, these are heavily armored vehicles used in iraq, afghanistan, syria, designed to withstand major explosions from mines, from ieds planted on the sides of roads. the ukrainians seemed to be having a bit more success in the last couple days bringing these m raps. the ministry said the ukrainians had paused and reset this counteroffensive, trying to take into account the painful lessons they learned in the first few days and figure out how to put them to better use on the battlefield. >> is it time, general, in understanding that even once commitments are made for --

let's say, if you commit a certain amount of weaponry to get where it's needed, but is it time and would you assume what's happening is there already is a reassessment by the u.s. and its allies that there may be things they can do if they see an opening, an opportunity that didn't exist three or four days ago? >> if you mean an opportunity to give of ukraine additional -- >> yes. >> first of all, i have to say, despite all the good things that the administration has done, i am still bewildered why they don't say we want ukraine to win and push to ukraine the specific capabilities that would make such a big difference. of course i'm talking about f-16s, the 300 kilometer-range weapons. why the administration continues to hold off on doing this i don't understand it. so that would make an immediate impact. it would enable to hit

headquarters and artillery and logistics much more effectively. if i may, the quote from some defense official about how many bradleys were damaged or lost, first of all, in the great scheme of things that is a very, very small number. i don't know how many of them were recovered and can be repaired. i would assume several of them could be repaired and put back into the fight. more importantly, the soldiers that are in these vehicles, i've been reading reports as you have that a lot of soldiers survived because of the equipment that they're in. the troops getting back in -- back into the fight, equipment being recovered and sent back into the fight and as you pointed out and raff pointed out, ukrainians are very good at learning and adapting. i have great optimism about what lies ahead for this offensive. >> lieutenant general ben hodges, raf sanchez, thank you both so much. new nbc news polling on how trump's federal indictment is

affecting his run for the white house. plus joe biden's diplomatic dilemma. what the president and administration is saying and isn't saying about the armed rebellion in russia. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc

somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪ ♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 5 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to clearer skin with skyrizi - this is my moment. there's nothing on my skin and that means everything!

♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time. ask your doctor about skyrizi, the #1 dermatologist-prescribed biologic in psoriasis. learn how abbvie could help you save. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food. (bobby) my store and my design business? we're exploding. but my old internet,

was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon.

(announcer) enough with the calorie counting, carb cutting, diet fatigue, and stress. just taking one golo release capsule with three balanced meals a day has been clinically proven to repair metabolism, optimize insulin levels, and balance the hormones that make weight loss easy. release works with your body, not against it, so you can put dieting behind you and go live your life. head to golo.com now to join the over 2 million people who have found the right way to lose weight and get healthier with golo. we have breaking news in the special counsel january 6th grand jury probe. nbc news has exclusive new reporting that five or six secret service agents have now

testified before that grand jury. the grand jury that will decide whether to indict the former president for his alleged role into the january 6th attack on the capitol. nbc's julia ainsley broke this story. julia, walk us through what you've learned and what it could mean for this investigation. >> we understand about five or six secret service agents were subpoenaed by the grand jury and they complied with that subpoena. they've now appeared. what that means is as this grand jury continues to deliberate, we know they met several times last week, they're getting closer to the heart of the matter, that being the former president's involvement in the january 6th insurrection. they want to hear from people like secret service agents. we don't know exactly who they've heard from yet, whether they could include tony or nad dough or bobby engel. the key event for this day, will want to know how cassidy hutchinson's testimony will hold up.

she testified. we'll want to know more about what was happening with the secret service detail around former vice president mike pence. a lot of that is missing because of the secret service text messages that never got saved and handed over as the department of homeland security inspector general announced a year ago. there's so many details we want to get from the secret service. there's this big black hole about exactly what they knew. we know how close they were to the president that day. we know the grand jury has been able to get some of those answers. that will play into a decision that may come at some point to indict the former president on that. of course, jack smith just recently indicted former president trump on his handling of classified documents at mar-a-lago. >> julia ainsley, thank you. my friend. through donald trump's many

legal woes and after his 37-count federal indictment, not only are republicans sticking with him, our new poll shows his support is growing while his top rival is actually losing ground. the former president has the support of 51% of gop primary voters. that's up five points since april. it comes mainly at the expense of florida governor ron desantis who dropped nine points in the same time period and now trails trump by almost 30. the poll also shows trump four points behind president biden in a hypothetical general election match-up. that is within the margin of error. so what does it all mean for the 2024 race? to help us break down the numbers, steve kornacki at the big board and matthew dowd, former chief strategist for the bush/cheney 2004 presidential campaign. steve, i know you've been digging into these poll numbers. what's your big-picture tway? >> a couple things, chris.

hard to ignore. the indictment of donald trump in the last few weeks, also coming within the last month or so, ron desantis formally getting into the race and really beginning his campaign. no evidence of any kind of a bump for desantis. as you say, no evidence that trump is taking any kind of a hit with republican voters in the wake of this indictment. the big picture dynamic in this republican race remains the same. it's donald trump very far out in front, and then ron desantis, the only other of the republican candidates who is in double digits. he's just over 20%. he's far behind trump. but nobody else is out of single digits here. notable, chris christie who is at zero in our last poll and making attacks on donald trump as a centerpiece of his campaign strategy moving up to 5% in this poll. we asked republican voters do you have a positive or negative

view of these candidates. a couple things stick out here. obviously donald trump very popular still with republicans. desantis' struggles are not because they don't like him. he's 60% positive, 17% negative, but he is still trailing trump by 30 points. christie i note here has gone from 0 to 5% support but remains, look, just 15% positive with republican voters. 42% negative. the former president mike pence who is also offered some pointed criticisms of donald trump, 33, 37. republican voters like trump and dance. we asked if it's just trump versus dance, who would you go for? trump with a 24-point advantage

over desantis when you reduce it to just those two. that's what desantis is up against here. if you expand it and look at this from the general election perspective, this is all voters, showed that head-to-head here, we asked all voters, positive or negative view of biden, of desantis, of trump, they are all unpopular, but joe biden is the least unpopular of the three. 39 positive, 48 negative. you see desantis developing, well known outside the republican party here. 16 points under water here. then you see trump. look at the negative number on trump, this is to do with all voters, sitting at 56% negative for donald trump. like you say, you look at those general election, biden up four over trump. we tried desantis, actually a tie. a slight difference here. biden with a four-point advantage when it's trump. it's a tie when it's dance. does that move republicans in

any way, the idea that desantis might be more competitive. he's trying to make that argument out there. one thing to keep in mind, when we look at the national horse race polls here, biden up four on trump in this poll. biden's national popular vote margin over trump in 2020 was four points, but when it actually came down to the electoral college math, the margin of victory for biden over trump spread out over three states, the decisive margin was just 42,000 votes. a four-point national popular vote victory for biden in 2020 that could become a trump victory in the electoral college with a switch of about 21,000 votes. that's worth keeping in mind as well. >> there's so much in that poll, thank you so much. matthew dowd, maybe there's money to be made if you print a bumper sticker that says "least unpopular." we'll suggest that maybe. to the point of this poll, here

is what occurred to me, and i need you to explain it to me. if you get a line of attacks against donald trump, you gain five points. if you get a 37-count federal indictment, you gain five points. explain. >> this might require some psychology of republican primary voters obviously in the course of this. i think that's what many republicans who didn't want donald trump and wanted some alternative, whether it was desantis or chris christie or mike pence thought he would begin to take on water as the indictments came. as you point out, the exact opposite is happening. to me, and steve noted this, the interesting one is the only one that's had a consistent point of attack is the only other than donald trump to gain. the problem with chris christie,

among the unpopularity with republicans, he has a lid. he gains in the lane of we don't want donald trump at all, we don't want donald trump, but there's a lid to it. the problem for everybody else who is trying to mirror donald trump and have soft criticism of that, donald trump overwhelmingly occupies that lane. one thing to keep in mind, chris, even with all the indictments and even with everything, donald trump never had more than a 15 or 14-point lead in 2016 in the primary, never had more than a 14 or 15-point lead in 2016. today he has nearly a 30-point lead, nearly a double advantage of what he had in 2016 when he won the nomination. that's the problem in this race for everybody that isn't donald trump. >> well, i would also add to that, half of republican primary voters said they would consider, would consider another leader

besides trump. even if you got all of those voters, if one person would -- will never happen -- donald trump still wins. >> that's like for dinner i say, well i'm going to have cheeseburgers, i'd consider pizza, but i really want cheeseburgers. they would consider someone other than donald trump but they really want donald trump as of right now. all of this, and it's interesting, your lead-in on the secret service agents testifying before january 6th, the only thing in my mind that can prevent donald trump from winning the nomination is some external event dents or damages his support and it finally falls. will the third or fourth or fifth indictment or will information come out? as of yet, the second and third things have only empowered him. to me that's the thing that republicans running against him are counting on, and i think

it's probably a dream, that something is going to come out that's going to so impact him he can't survive and, therefore, they'll look to somebody else. right now, donald trump is the dominant presence in this race. it's almost as if, chris, he's the incumbent president in this race running for renomination of his own party. that's what it seems like. >> matthew dowd, always great to have you on the program. thank you. up next, how the revolt in russia could reshape the geopolitical outlook for the west and maybe provide opportunity. we'll dive into the ramifications after the break on "chris jansing reports." "chris jansing reports." tourists that turn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs. that can be analyzed by ai in real time. ♪ so researchers can identify which areas are at risk. and help life underwater flourish.

♪

- i got the cabin for three days. it's gonna be sweet! and help life what? i'm 12 hours short. - have a fun weekend. - ♪ unnecessary action hero! unnecessary. ♪ - was that necessary? - no. neither is a blown weekend. with paycom, employees do their own payroll so you can fix problems before they become problems. - hmm! get paycom and make the unnecessary, unnecessary. - see you down the line. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment

as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid let's go straight to the state department and matt miller. he's taking questions on the revolt in russia. let's listen. >> in our assessment it remains a dynamic situation. it's unclear what the ultimate implications of what happened will be. as it relates to united states activities and interests, i'll speak to what we did over the weekend. number one, the president focused on convening allies and partners. you saw he had a call with members of the quad, secretary blinken had a call with members of the g7. he had a call with the secretary of -- with foreign minister lieu cava of ukraine, foreign

ministers of turkey and poland. we continue to have discussions with our allies and partners today. we also made clear to ukraine, as we made clear in conversations with our allies and partners that our steadfast support for ukraine will remain so no matter what happens in russia. i will say with respect to the activities of the weekend, obviously they were a significant step. it is certainly a new thing to see president putin's leadership directly challenged. it is a new thing to see yevgeny prigozhin directly questioning the rationale for this war and calling out that the war has been conducted essentially based on a lie, which is something that we have said previously, but we certainly haven't seen coming from russian officials previously. those are all significant steps, and what the implications of those are i think remains to be seen. >> you think prigozhin is a russian official? >> he is certainly a leader of

russian forces that have engaged on the battlefield or was. >> or was? >> i think it remains to be seen. we've seen the announcements. i think it remains to be seen the current or final disposition of wagner and yevgeny prigozhin. >> do you have any idea where he is right now? >> i don't have any assessment about his location. >> and then, last thing, do you think that this is going to have any kind of impact on the russian operations in ukraine or also on wagner activities outside of ukraine like in syria and africa? >> i think it's too soon to tell with respect to both of those questions. certainly the events we saw over the weekend where you sehwager in forces to some extent withdrawing from ukraine and instead marching on and

eventually october paying a russian city are a significant step. what happens to those wagner forces in the wake of the announcements on saturday and the last couple days? i think we just don't know the answer to that yet. we don't know what will happen to wagner in ukraine. we don't know what will happen to wagner in africa. i will say, as we've said before, obviously wherever we've seen wagner operate in the past, we've seen death and destruction follow in their wake. we have instituted policies to hold them accountable and counter their influence. to the extent wagner continues to operate in africa, ukraine, anywhere else in the world, any wagner successor organizations, pick up the mantle that wagner has carried, we'll take actions to hold either wagner or their successor accountable. >> ambassador tracy went to the foreign ministry or called the foreign ministry and there were communications here? what were they?

>> we had communications over the weekend -- actually i'll say we had communications on saturday with the russian government, both ambassador tracy and at other levels here in washington where we delivered two messages to them. number one, we expect russia to uphold its obligations to protect our embassy and protect diplomatic personnel who are in moscow. and, two, to reiterate what we said publicly, this is an internal russian affair in which the united states is not involved and will not be involved. >> thank you. andrea. >> matt, senator warner, obviously the chair of the intel committee told me on the air that they believe, he believes from reports he's seen that prigozhin is in minsk. do you have any indication of that as well? >> i don't have any assessment on his location, no. >> do you have any indication of what concessions he may have

received regarding shoigu or anything else for turning around? >> i do not. i do not. i would note in respect to that -- we've gotten a lot of o questions with respect to shoigu order gerasimov. the united states doesn't take a position on leadership of the russian federation, of the russian ministry of defense. our policies have been with respect to actions russia is taking. we want a russia not invading its nab o we want a russia that is not conducting malign influence operations across the world. that has always been our policy with russia, not the disposition of the ministry of defense or any other offices inside the country. >> the one on-the-record statement that came out on saturday was the confidence in the command and control of the

nuclear forces. i infer from that there's military-to-military communication, as one would expect, between us and the russians in contrast obviously to a different situation with china. >> i won't speak to any inferences. i'll let the pentagon speak to military-to-military communications, whether it happened or not. i will say, as the secretary sat yesterday, we did not see, do not see any change in the disposition of russian nuclear forces and have not changed the disposition of ours. >> the secretary did say in some of his interviews that putin's influence, power, whatever, has really been shaken by this, by the speech, the whole nexus of what has happened. can you speak to that? >> i will say, as i said a moment ago, this certainly was a new moment. if you think of the events of

the last few years. as the secretary said, 16 months ago the russian federation and vladimir putin envisioned russian forces would be taking kyiv. instead over the weekend we saw russian forces taking a russian ministry of defense office inside a russian city. we saw an entire pretext of this war being questioned openly, something we've done, what our allies and partners have done, something we have not seen inside the borders of russia. in fact, you can be thrown in jail for taking that step as an ordinary step inside russia. we saw yevgeny prigozhin directly questioning not just the ministry of defense officials, as he's done for some time, but really directly challenging president putin's leadership. those are all significant steps and a significant change from what we've seen certainly in the last 16 months, but over a number of years. what that means going forward, we don't know. >> vladimir putin, as you know him and as this administration knows him, tolerated this kind

of insubordination whether within the immediate future or long term, would he tolerate this kind of challenge to his authority? >> i would not ever want to speculate on how vladimir putin would respond to any event, certainly not an event inside russia. >> the diplomatic efforts that were made over the weekend, did russia respond from the u.s. diplomats, ambassador tracy and the others? >> i won't speak to the russian response, just the messages we delivered. >> i'm just asking you to say yes or no. >> it's a conversation. it wasn't a one-way conversation. we deliver and the other side hangs up. it was a conversation, yes. >> one thing that the secretary said over the weekend was that to the extent that russia is now distracted by what's happening internally in its country that could create an additional

advantage for the ukrainians. how exactly is the united states encouraging ukrainians to take advantage of this moment? >> i would frame it slightly differently. we continue to supply the ukrainians with the equipment they need to conduct the counter offensive and to defend themselves long term. we continue to have intelligence sharing channels with the ukrainians. we continue to have military channels, diplomatic channels that are open with ukraine. what the secretary was speaking to was the fact that you did see what wagner forces withdraw from ukraine, and instead move on a russian city. how that works out, what happens in the coming days with respect to wagner forces or other russian military force, i don't think we can say but certainly we are in close consultation with ukraine and the ukrainian military about the ongoing counter offensive.

>> last time white house and the state department said that prigozhin, what changes do you see between prigozhin and north korea, is there any change? >> i think it's too soon to tell. it's too early to tell how any of the existing wagner operations or wagner arrangements will change if at all moving forward. >> and the chinese foreign minister and the russian foreign minister had a meeting yesterday. do you know about the contents of their meetings? >> i do not know the contents of their meetings. i will reiterate what secretary blinken said when he was in beijing, and in a number of interviews afterwards, which is when we were in beijing, this is over a week ago now or a week ago, sunday and monday. the issue of ukraine and russia's invasion of ukraine did come up in our meetings, and secretary blinken was quite

clear with chinese officials that he met with that if they wanted to play a constructive role in helping find a just and lasting peace that recognized ukraine's territorial integrity and sovereignty, we would welcome them playing such a role but i don't have any readout of those meetings that took place. i'll come to you next. >> a photo op on that, do you think is there anything you can pause from chinese statements about the mutiny, and, i guess, do you think that this -- seeing this instability and the cracks in the russian regime might give china sort of a pause in their support for the russians over the war in ukraine. >> i wouldn't want to speculate on how they might read this situation. i would say that -- i would just reiterate what secretary blinken said directly in their meetings to them, we would urge them to

continue to not support russia with direct military assistance. we have made our concerns about potential support public in the past. we have not seen them take that step. they discussed that in their meetings. and whether it changes how they've approached this conflict or not, i don't know. but if they did want to play a constructive role that recognized the need to preserve ukraine's territorial integrity and sovereignty, it's a role that we would welcome them playing. >> could i ask you about the belarusian has there been any direct contact with the united states or lukashenko or people in the regime? >> not that i'm aware of. >> is there any message or any impact on relations? obviously they're already quite bad with lukashenko, but is this -- how do you see the fact that prigozhin supposedly is going to -- >> i think before i comment on that, i want to wait and see what actually happens, where

prigozhin actually does end up before i make any sort of speculative comment about what may occur. >> do you think it's possible he won't wind up in belarus? >> we don't have any assessment at this time. >> africa, the wagner operations there, you can't say what's going to happen but is there a message the united states has to companies, burkina faso, other countries that have partnered with wagner, what this unrest shows about wagner's activity . >> we continue to listen to this. if you're thinking of what is the messaging on this from this administration, he made a couple of points that he said these were significant steps, number one, new to see putin's leadership channel and the lead of some russian troops questioning the rationale from this war. what else did you take away from this briefing, evelyn?

>> well, i thought it was interesting that the u.s. government didn't have any additional information on where prigozhin is, and like most of us, they're watching to see what will happen to the worldwide wagner operations. i think if you're thinking geopolitically, that's actually really interesting because russia has expanded its influence in africa and in the middle east using the wagner mercenary group at a kind of arm's length approach. so because it's not technically the russian government, although they operate at the russian government's direction and to benefit the russian government, they have been able to provide support for strong men, strong rulers, autocrats in africa. they've become quite rich taking mineral wealth in exchange for their mercenary services, and that's extended russia's influence into areas where they hadn't been, really, since the cold war. so i think that is an interesting aspect to see what happens there. i also think it's interesting that the russians felt it was

necessary to send someone to beijing almost as fast as possible. obviously to try to reassure them that they had everything under control. >> so, and i should note that that question about whether or not prigozhin is indeed, as some reports suggested matt miller could not answer was asked by andrea mitchell. evelyn farkas, thank you so much, always great to have you on on the program. in our next hour, we are breaking down president biden first comments on this unfolding situation in russia. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on kavm kavp. you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on kavm kavp -- msnbc. bu -- msnbc. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon.

♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) constant contact's advanced automation lets you send the right message at the right time, every time. ( ♪♪ ) constant contact. helping the small stand tall. permission to dig in? granted. breyers carbsmart is so rich, so creamy, it tastes totally off-limits. but with only 4 grams of net carbs in every delicious serving, you've got the green light. better starts with breyers. there's a lot to cover in this second hour of "chris jansing reports," including the head of the wagner group releasing a new audio message for the first time since ending his armed rebellion calling it