clearing each of the ten obstacles with a smile on her face. >> i knew this was a once in a lifetime, so i just wanted to go for it. >> reporter: and her own admission becoming a hurdler was a leap. >> what's the difference between the two? >> i think a better question to this is what are the similarities. >> reporter: at the start, there was no doubt she was different. >> i said, no, no, no. that's not a mistake. that's me. i need to run for belgium. >> but she never gave up even as the field raced away, crossing the finish line a full 19 seconds after anyone else. but absolutely winning the day, not only saving her team's chances. >> i don't want to be famed. i just want to be known for my values. >> reporter: but giving us all a master class in sportsmanship and overcoming obstacles no matter how high.

christian dog ran, nbc news. >> teamwork making the dream work. and on that note, i wish you a good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc, thanks for staying up late. i will see you at the end of tomorrow. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> it's really good to have you here. before he became the editor of the most important english language magazine and the world, david remnick was a moscow correspondent for the washington post. he in fact won the pulitzer prize for his landmark 1993 book about the last time russia fell apart at the end of the soviet union. david remnick is gonna be here joining us live in just a few minutes, as we all try to make sense of this latest news that burst out this weekend. everybody in the world trying to figure out whether russia may be falling apart again, whether vladimir putin may be

teetering, after 23 years consolidated, increasingly dictatorial power in russia. again, david remnick will be joining us live on that story in just a moment. we are also keeping ice tonight on our own supreme court, where in the midst of their own serious and expanding ethics scandals among conservative justices on the court that court is nevertheless expected to show yet another round of hard right very controversial, possibly very unpopular rulings. l,we have got more on that ahead tonight, again, what is expected to be a big day in the court tomorrow. we're also watching one particular federal court in south florida. tonight, the trump appointed judge who will apparently be overseeing the federal criminal trial of former president trump, she issued an order about witnesses in trump's criminal case over the mishandling of classified documents after he left the presidency. you may remember, late last week, prosecutors gave trump's defense team and list of 84

witnesses, who may end up testifying in this case. prosecutors told the court in court documents that they had handed over that list of 84 witnesses to trump's defense. now, the reason they have done that is that it's part of a normal, sort of, pre trial process for criminal court, for a criminal case of this guy. but also specifically, trump and his co defendant, walt nauta, are explicitly and specifically not supposed to talk about the case with each other or with anybody else who might be called as a witness. so they need to know who else is gonna be called as a witness. so, prosecutors gave that list of 84 potential witnesses to trump's defense team. they also asked the judge overseeing the case to please put that list of potential witnesses under seal. please keep it secret. well, tonight, the judge issued an order declining to do that.

she turned down that request from prosecutors. we are gonna get some expert advice tonight in understanding the importance of that. bless, there's some other stuff to watch here. trump's codefendant, walt nauta, is going to get arraigned tomorrow. bless tomorrow as a day as judge in southern district of new york is considering trump's request to remove his other criminal case out of state court in new york and into federal court in sdny. that's the criminal case where he has been charged with more than 30 felonies under new york state law related to alleged business records from. we're gonna get some expert help in figuring out the importance of all of those matters tonight. but we have to have to start tonight with some breaking news related to special counsel's indictment of trump on those classified documents charges. one special counsel jack smith brought those 37 criminal charges against trump earlier this month in the classified documents case, remember, these were charges for willful

retention of national defense information at his home in florida, and also a false statement and obstruction. you might remember in the indictment, there was sort of at length detail given of a supposed audio recording of donald trump. oh, lordy, there are tapes. according to the indictment, and there is a tape from july 2021, when trump was at his golf club in bedminster, new jersey. and according to the indictment, trump in this recorded conversation, he is allegedly speaking with a writer who is working on a book about the trump administration. and according to the indictment, during that conversation, trump seems, at least, to show this writer some documents that he says are classified. now, you can't do that. a, you shouldn't have classified documents after you leave the presidency. but, b, you shouldn't be able to show them ever to somebody

who was not got proper security clearances and need to unseal them. the indictment quotes from this supposed tape describes trump showing the writer a piece of paper and allegedly saying, quote, i just found, isn't that amazing? it's like highly confidential, secret. there's a secret information. as president, i could have declassified it. now, i can't, you know, but this is still a secret. it is crazy, right? if you are inventing -- [laughter] like, cartoon level you did it wrong allegations for somebody mishandling classified information, like you would dream this up as a hypothetical to teach it to law students. imagine there was a tape in which the accused said, no, i'm not supposed to be showing this to you. it's really secret. but, look, here it is. and it is just a prosecutor's dream to have something like

this on tape. but all we could see the indictment was prosecutors allegation that this tape existed and that on the state trump said those things. trump said those thing s. and, you know, as an allegation, it is damning. the special counsel is alleging that trump improperly held on to classified information. he allegedly, his description of audio evidence of trump appearing to admit that it was in position of secret material, that it is not declassified. it's classified material. and he's nevertheless showing it to people who are absolutely not cleared to see it at this meeting, at his golf course. thanks to the indictment we've all read, the transcript transcript of that supposed recording. but now, tonight, we can all hear it because cnn tonight, and kudos to them for nailing this, cnn tonight has obtained the audio recording of donald trump in which he appears to

tell a writer that he is knowingly in possession of classified material. now, i should tell you that this is cnn's reporting. nbc news has not authenticated this recording. but if what cnn has obtained is legit, what it appears to be is the tape that is describing the indictment. the evidence that helped lay the groundwork for special counsel jack smith to indict donald trump. so, here it is. i'm gonna play the whole thing for you now. listen. >> these are bad, sick people. but -- >> that was your coup, you know, against you -- >> well, it started right at the -- >> like, when milley is talking about, oh, you are trying to do that, they were trying to do that before you were even sworn in. >> that's right. >> well, with milley, let me see that. i will show you an example. he said that i wanted to attack iran. isn't it amazing?

i have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. look, this was him. they presented me this, this is off the record, but they presented me this. this was him. this was the defense department and him. >> wow. >> we looked at some. this was him. this wasn't done by me, this was him. all sorts of stuff pages long, look -- let's see here. >> oh my gosh -- [laughter] >> i just found, isn't that amazing? this totally wins my case, you know. except it is highly confidential. [laughter] there is secret information. look at this. you attack and -- >> hillary would print that out all the time, you know -- [laughter] >> no, she would send it to anthony weiner. [laughter] the pervert. >> please print. >> by the way, isn't that incredible? >> i was just thinking because we were talking about it, and you know, he said, he wanted to

attack iran, and -- these are the papers. this was done by the military and given to me. i think we can probably, right? >> i don't know. we will have to see. yeah, we will have to try to -- >> declassify it. >> since president, i can declassify it. now i can't -- >> yeah, now we have a problem. >> isn't that interesting? it's so cool. i mean, it's looking at her, and you probably almost didn't believe me. but now you believe me. >> no, i believe you. >> it's incredible, right? they bring can you bring in some cokes in please. >> can you bring some cokes in please? that does give it at least a ring of authenticity, doesn't it? i will show you an example, look, all sorts of stuff, pages long, look, this was the defense department. all sorts of stuff, pages long, look. this is secret information, look, look at this. he wanted to attack iran. these are the papers.

trump has since tried to say in subsequent interviews, there was no document. i wasn't showing anything. it was just newspaper articles and magazine articles. this was the defense department. these are the papers. this was done by the military and given to me. i think we can probably right -- staffer: i don't know. we will have to see. trump: declassify it. trump: sees, as president, i could have declassified it. now i can't, you know, this is classified, isn't that interesting? can we get some cokes? i mean -- let's just fall on the specifics of this for a second. in jack smith bringing charges against trump, the sort of crux of the case, right, is that the prosecution has to be able to prove that trump had classified documents in his possession after he left the presidency,

right? that is the illegal activity alleged in the indictment. and here in this part of the tape is donald trump saying he had possession of classified information after leaving the presidency. >> except it is highly confidential -- >> yeah. >> this is secret information -- [laughter] >> highly confidential, this is secret information. ha ha ha, this is secret information, look, look, look at my secret information. it's one thing to sort of read these words as part of the indictment. it's another thing to hear it. another key part of jack smith's case against trump is proving not only trump had these documents in his possession, but that he knew that it was no longer in his power as an ex president to declassify them, right? so, again, part of his sort of purported defense, or part of his attempted defense, if you can even call it that, it

doesn't even seem that coherent, is to say yes, these things were classified. but i used my mind to declassify them. here he is on tape admitting that he does not have the power to declassify these things, and these are still classified. >> since i'm president, i can declassify them. you know i can't -- >> that would be a problem. >> isn't that interesting? >> as president, i could have declassified it. now i can't, you know. but this is classified. isn't that interesting? it is so cool. it's a lot of things. not sure cool is in the top 6000, but this is definitely the kind of thing that should end up in a federal criminal indictment. i'll give you that. like i said, cnn obtaining this audio tonight that appears to be the audio from 2021, that is referenced in the indictment brought against trump in federal criminal court in florida. this describes -- this is where

donald trump appears to show classified materials to a writer at his golf club in bedminster, new jersey. now, i should note we have reached out to trump's legal team and campaign for comment. but, so far, we have heard nothing back. trump has been charged with improperly taking material like this when he left the white house, and legally storing it at his home in mar-a-lago. the special counsel had described this conversation in detail in his indictment that he brought against trump earlier this month. but now, if this is what it purports to be, we are now able to hear it in full. joining us now is barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. she's a professor at the university of michigan school of law. barb, thank you so much for being with us tonight. i'm so glad we were able to get your for this story with this late breaking news. >> i'm glad to be here, rachel. >> so, let me just get your top line reaction. we obviously had some of this

tape described in the indictment line for line. there were some ellipses in the indictment, not every line that's on the state was reflected in the indictment. it strikes me as potentially important when trump says explicitly, these are the papers. which would seem to cast no doubt on whether or not he was actually holding papers that he was describing to this writer. as prosecutor, as a former prosecutor, as a lawyer, how do you hear this as evidence? >> i have two reactions to it. one, as a former prosecutor, it makes my hair stand on a bit to see this in the public domain. prosecutors try to keep this stuff safeguarded so that you can't have witness tampering and crowd sourcing of defenses. now that people can because this is in the public domain. but as a matter of evidence, this is some really powerful evidence. we have seen some verbatim quotes from this recording that was in the indictment. but to hear the whole thing

play out, i think, is incredible evidence. and at trial, it will not just be this recording that's played in a vacuum. they will have to authenticate this document with this recording with someone who was there. so, whether it is the biographer, the publisher, or one of the two staffers, one or more of them will have to be there. and one question i think they will be asked is, did you look at it? because it sounds like he's showing it to them, and they are actually reading it. so, i think it proves a couple of things. one, as you said, his knowledge and intent, which is important here, about that he is willfully violating the law. and the other is the incredible recklessness with which he is treating our national secrets. so it's a very powerful piece of evidence. >> and, barb, let me just ask you one of those points that you just made, about the fact that it seems, when you hear this back and forth, it seems like the person who he is in conversation with is looking at the documents. i mean, i got the sense, i got that as a vague impression from reading in the indictment.

hearing it, that seems much more clear. again, that part of the tape -- i have a big pile of papers. this thing just came up. look, this was him, he was talking about mark milley. they presented me this. this is off the record. but they presented me this. this was him. this was the defense department and him. and then, the person he is speaking to, the writer says, wow, as if they are looking at the thing that he is imploring the person to look at. this wasn't done by me, this was him. all sorts of stuff, pages long, look -- when the writer, the other person in the room says wow, it does appear that he wasn't just, you know, waving it in it distance showing that the paper existed, but rather asking that person to review the content of that material. and that, just as a lay person, it makes me wonder why dissemination of classified material wasn't charged. it does seem like they've got evidence that he showed it to at least one other person. >> yes, that's how it lands with me as well. and as we said, i think they're gonna call that witness here.

they got this recording from somebody. my guess is that it came through this grand jury subpoena, or request, from the person who was in the room recording it for the purpose of getting information for this biography. and so, certainly, it is a separate crime to disclose classified information to a person who is not authorized to receive it. that could be another charge. now, my guess is that this occurred in bedminster, i believe, in new jersey. so, it would be technically improper to charge it in florida because it's not the proper venue over there. but i know some have suggested, perhaps, this is a church prosecutor keeping it in their pocket, and that could be filed in a separate indictment in the district of new jersey. so, that's one possible theory for that. >> bartlett, me just also ask you about a few developments that are about to happen over the next, and in some cases, the next 24 hours. tomorrow, we are looking at walt nauta, trump's codefendant the classified documents case being arraigned in south florida. we are looking at sdny, a federal judge in southern

district of new york holding a hearing to decide whether or not trump's state criminal case in new york and be moved into federal court. we also just had an order from the judge in the classified documents case rejecting doj's, the prosecutor's request to keep the witness list under steele. in terms of, i know there's a lot of things happening all at once and a couple of different cases, but in any of these developments, any of these things that we're watching happening, and sort of laying those cases, signaling to you that anything strange is going on, anything concerning, or it would be developments in cases of these kinds? >> i think there are all sort of expected. certainly the nauta arraignment is nothing unusual. i think this is a usual question before the judge. i think it is likely to fail and the case will continue, there could be a surprise there. and the order with judge cannon, i know there has been some outright that the justice department is not heeding the

protection it wants. but there is a valid interest in the press, in seeing any kind of document that gets filed in court. so, i think the judge here is actually correctly noting that prosecutors are not required to file a witness list. i think they are doing it because the magistrate judge as a condition of release of donald trump, not to have any contact with any of the witnesses. so, they could share that document. and i believe they have shared the names of the witnesses. what i think they want is the clarity of finding the names, saying to the judge, hey, judge, here are the names. and if trump contact any of these people, you bet we're gonna be coming back to you and asking some sort of contempt order but asking that those names being kept under seal, understandably, wants to protect their identity. but i think what the judge is suggesting in that order is, look, you don't have to file this as a document with the court. and if you do, it should be a public document. by asking me to seal it, you are asking me to do something that is really against the public interest here and the press interest in having access

to coal court file documents. >> in other words, from the perspective of us, the public, if they don't file that list of witnesses with the court, we're not gonna get access to it. so, do it that way, rather than filing it in the court, and then stealing it. >> i think that's right. which strikes me as the right balance. >> barbara mcquade, invaluable to have you here tonight. thank you so much, barb. >> let's have some cokes. [laughter] >> we will send off some. all right, we'll be right back. stay with us. it kills 99% plaque bacteria. and forms an antibacterial shield. try parodontax active gum health mouthwash. hey bud. wow. what's all this? hawaii was too expensive so i brought it here. you know with priceline you could actually take that trip for less than all this. i made a horrible mistake. ♪ go to your happy price ♪ ♪ priceline ♪ when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you...

and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your healthcare provider about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your healthcare provider. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. no matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. talk to your healthcare provider today.

what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ wake up, achievers. onyou're making the most of every hour of your life. except the hours that you're sleeping.

so why do we leave so much untapped potential on the table? this is a next level bed, for a next level you. my circadian rhythm is kicking your circadian rhythms butt! it's not a competition. i know, but i'm still winning! so, it is a competition. the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is now only $899. >> it was a commercial flight, plus, 48-month financing on all smart beds. shop now only at sleep number a ryanair flight in may, two years ago, 2021. the ryanair flight took off from athens, greece, and its flew north. it was supposed to be a nonstop flight from greece to lithuania, about a three hour flight, three hours five minutes. but on that flight path, the last country that you fly over before you get to lithuania is the country of belarus.

and once that ryanair flight, that commercial flight, about 170 people on board, once that flight was over belarus, the government of better host contacted the plane and said, you cannot continue your flight. there's a security risk on board. we are sending a fighter jet to escort you down here now. you are not going to go to lithuania. we will not let you. you are in our airspace and we are gonna make you land in the capital of belarus instead in minutes. minsk. one woman who was on board the plane told abc news at the time that it was totally out of the blue for everybody on board the plane. she said the coup didn't say anything to the passengers about the plane being forced down and diverted to another country. she said the plane just suddenly plunged. she said, quote, we all, on the plane, panicked because we thought we were going to crash. this was a sudden dive, changing the altitude very drastically. it was very violent. i have never felt this on an airplane. everybody was in shock.

so, the fighter jet forces this passenger airplane down. it lands at minsk. nobody knows what. once they are on the ground, belarusian police stormed the plane and grab a guy. a 26-year-old blogger. he was the editor of a telegram channel that was critical of belarus's's dictator, and was supportive of the protests that have sprung up in that country, the previous year in 2020, after belarus's dictator really did appear to have lost an election, but he decided he was gonna stay in power anyway. and it is an amazing thing, right? in modern-day europe, this dictator used a mig fighter jet to force down a european commercial flight that wasn't even supposed to be landing in his country. he forced that plane down into his country specifically to get this get off the plane so they can throw him in prison. the belarusian dictator did

that. his name is alexander lukashenko. and even if you've never heard of lukashenko, even if you have never in your life given one thought to the country called belarus, i swear, he is exactly what you are imagining when you think to yourself, what does a belarusian dictator look like? just imagine, right? look, magic. exactly that guy, right? giant, like, comically oversized military hat, regulation size and shape, saddam style dictator mustache. he likes to be seen holding guns of all shapes and sizes, just randomly for no reason. it makes him feel like a big man. and especially when he was the big hat. during the nationwide protest against him in 2020 after he stalled that election, he put on fake military gear, the kind of generic like amazon prime branded stuff, that it's called

technical tactical because it has extra snaps. [laughter] he put on this little fake military suit and walked around to try to get tough guy points against the woman and students who were protesting against his dictatorship in 2020. alexander lukashenko is technically the elected president of belarus. but he was elected in 1994. and he's been there ever since. he's the longest serving dictator, i mean president, in europe. and it's not because he keeps getting reelected in free and fair elections. and forgive me for saying it this way, as a dictators go, alexander lukashenko is kind of a sad, sad not ball. he is as weak as he is brutal, which is a bad pairing that goes together all too often. for lukashenko, the main hallmark at the later stages of his reign as the longest standing dictator in europe is not just that he killed and

oppressive his own people, and aggregates all the wealth and potential of his country to himself and his family. it is that he is bowing and scraping subservient to vladimir putin and russia. he is as brutal as he is weak. but that relationship between lukashenko and putin has led to some real we are not, especially in recent months, especially after those protests that could have toppled lukashenko. but they didn't, especially after putin sent in forces to reinforce lukashenko against the people protesting against him in his own country. since then, lukashenko and putin appear to have been trying to create some kind of super state of their two countries. one in which belarus is sort of more or less willingly subsumed into russia. this has led, just within the past couple of weeks, to russia moving nuclear weapons into belarus.

now, that's a big deal. i mean, when the ussr dissolved in 1991, all the former soviet states, except for russia itself, gave up their nuclear weapons. this very recent, this month, transfer of nuclear weapons from russia into belarus, that's the first time russia has moved nuclear weapons outside its borders since the ussr collapse. and it's not like lukashenko is like a real stable genius in terms of, you know, feeling comfortable that he's now in control of these things. on the occasion of receiving these nuclear weapons, what did lukashenko do? well, he gave a bizarre statement to the press, in which he said, if any other country wants to join in this new union he's making with putin, they should just call him up. he said i'm not speaking for putin here. i'm just speaking for me. but he says he is pretty short they would be happy to take anyone, any other country. so, if you want to bring your country into this new union with russia and belarus,

lukashenko says in return for you joining their union, he will give your country nuclear weapons as a thank you. again, he said he wasn't speaking for putin, but he is pretty sure putin would go along with it. anybody who wants to join our club, i would give you nukes. this is within minutes of him getting nukes. so, i know this is not part of the world that we usually pay much attention to. there's no big western news boroughs in minsk that we are taking live shots from on monday night. but in recent months, things have been getting increasingly weird in that corner of the world, under that increasingly weird, weak, unstable dictator. and now, all of a sudden, that guy is a trusted authority, he is the calm hand, he is the man who the world is apparently interesting with stopping a civil war in the largest country on the planet. that guy. whether or not you are able to

pay close attention to the news this week and, as this all unfolded in lightning speed, we all know the basics of what happened, right? the crisis centers on this guy, yevgeny prigozhin. it prigozhin is an ex convict. he did years in prison for robbery. after getting out of prison, he became a businessman in st. petersburg. prigozhin came to vladimir putin's orbit very early on after putin became president of russia. and prigozhin became one of putin's favorites. he became kind of a mr. fix it for putin. he took on odd jobs, which is why there is this striking fbi wanted poster for yevgeny prigozhin. he was indicted by u.s. federal prosecutors after robert mueller's special counsel investigation assembled evidence that prigozhin ran it is social media troll farm that targeted the u.s. public in 2016, to try to make americans hail each other more than we already do, to support extremism of all kinds, to promote secessionist movements

in the united states, to promote violence in the united states, and most centrally, to try to get donald trump elected president of the united states in 2016. prigozhin was indicted by federal prosecutors for his role in running that operation around our 2016 election. there remains today a quarter million dollar reward for information leading to his arrest by u.s. authorities because he is under indictment in the united states. but that was, you know, one of the odd jobs he was able to do for his friend, vladimir putin. one of the other things he was able to do for his friend, vladimir, was billed putin a deniable profit army. so why would putin want a deniable private army, when he's got the russian army? well, it turns out it is helpful, handy sometimes, to have guys you don't necessarily claim as your national military. for example, there's a civil war underway in sudan right now. it might be weird or at least sort of difficult for the

russian government to explain why it was deploying regular russian in military groups, to assist one of the sites fighting in this civil war in sudan. it's much less controversy for the russian government. instead, this random, for profit, private army turns up there. the wagner group. they turned up to promote russian interests in the sudanese civil war with the russian government being able to say, we've got nothing to do with this. they've done the same thing in sudan, in libya, in mali, in syria, wherever russia wants to exert armed military influence, but they don't want to explain that that is what they are doing with the regular military. also, of course, ukraine. prigozhin's wagner group has had a lot of attention for its battlefield succession, successes in ukraine. but it's not like the wagner is fighting as an independent force. prigozhin's wagner mercenaries are basically a private augmentation, an adjunct to the

russian military. they rely on russian military infrastructure. they can't operate a whole wore their on their own. the russian military has to be there too. but that dynamic has created some friction. since the ukraine or started and russia's invasion of ukraine has gone so poorly from day one, prigozhin has taken on this sort of unsettling new role in russian politics, unsettling both for putin and for everybody else. he is essentially taking credit for all the russian military victories there have been in ukraine, and has gone after the russian military for all the russian failures. and at a time when regular russian citizens are being arrested and prosecuted just for describing russia's war in ukraine as a war, when irregular russian citizens are being arrested and prosecuted not just for holding up signs that say no to war, but literally for holding up blank signs that say nothing. when irregular russian citizens are facing years in prison for

making a strong against the war, or even making lists of russian casualties from that war. here is prigozhin, putin's got, winning this private military contractor company, talking to social media, like every day, showing corpses of russian fighters, screaming expletives against russian leadership, calling them criminals and worse, calling for them to be killed, saying the russian elite is corrupt and the war is a lie. why are they letting prigozhin do that? well, friday, apparently, he hit the end of this road. he announced, in effect, a mutiny. wagner fighters versus russia. wagner fighters took over a military outpost in russia, that is key to supplying russian forces in ukraine. they took it over without firing a shot. they were greeted warmly by the russian citizens of that town, in which that military garrison is located. and then wagner troops started to advance towards moscow,

saying out loud that that's where they were going. columns of wagner troops going hundreds of miles in a straight shot right at moscow. they got to within 150 miles of moscow. the whole world was bracing for a military coup in red square. putin himself reportedly fled, he left moscow as wagner fighters were closing in. and then, prigozhin and his wagner fighters turned around. because apparently, lukashenko, the doofus dictator of belarus, was the one who made the call. he made a call to prigozhin to offer a very strange off ramp to this very strange crisis. the end result is that prigozhin has gone to belarus to lukashenko's country to live out his days, i don't know. nobody seems to know exactly what's going to happen to him there, or to his wagner group fighters. are they all going to belarus with him? putin gave a speech to the

nation from an undisclosed location in which he appeared enraged, and said this was all betrayal and treason, and there would be no mercy. he just as quickly appears to back off that, and now gave a speech today, saying it is fine, those guys can just stay in belarus. so, obviously, there's many questions now. did putin almost just get toppled in russia? i mean, a hostile force, a hostile heavily armed force got within 150 miles of moscow, with apparently no resistance whatsoever. so, that doesn't seem good, even it if it was only a dry run, only address rehearsal. and what the heck is going on with this other country, with belarus, and lukashenko being in the middle of this? what happens with this immense well, experienced, well armed private army that just tried a mutiny against russian forces? and now, maybe they are cooling their heels in this neighboring

country, that is kind of forming a union with russia anyway. are they no longer fighting russia's failing war in ukraine? how did this all happened so fast, and what preach out is on the menu of things that may happen next? david remnick joins us live here next. stay with us. stay with us ♪♪ this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. a pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles.

sales tax. gas tax. californians pay some of the highest taxes in the nation. but now lawmakers are proposing a so-called “link tax” that would charge websites every time they link to a news article online. experts warn it could undermine the open internet,

punish local newspapers, while subsidizing hedge funds and big media corporations. >> before he became editor of so tell lawmakers: oppose ab886, because another new tax is the last thing we need. paid for by ccia. the new yorker magazine, david remnick was moscow correspondent for the washington post.

that experience helped form the basis of his pulitzer prize-winning book about the collapse of the soviet union. it doesn't look like we are now facing another russian collapse. but i think this weekend, we just went through the closest thing to it since the fall of the soviet union. joining us now live is david remnick. mr. remnick, it's really good to see. thanks for making time to be here with us today. >> great to see you, rachel. that was quite the wind up, the questions are all the right one. >> good. first of all, i do not expect that you will associate yourself with my term, doofus dictator, and i'm sort of sorry that i said that about mr. lukashenko. so, let that not be put on you, on your application -- >> he is just a doofus. >> i mean, yes. as brutal as he is weak and ridiculous. look, i mean, what do you think happened this week and? i get the sense that a lot of us were wondering if it was a coup and then it started to

look like it was a mutiny, which is something that happens within military forces. now, i'm not sure quite how to think of this. >> i think in foreign policy terms, they call this a grave miscalculation. what you had was a protegee of putin, somebody that grew up in putin's st. petersburg. they are contemporaries, these guys, they spent nine years in jail for breaking into apartments. that is yevgeny prigozhin. and when he got out of jail, he started selling hot dogs in a park. and then, he opened up some restaurants, and he was lucky enough to have a customer named vladimir putin, who became his patron. and to have vladimir putin as your patron, it turns out, is a very lucky thing. you become extremely wealthy, become extremely powerful, and you enter what's called putin world, this kind of personalist regime that all depends on the great dictator.

the problem is that one of his enterprises, the wagner group, who went to his head, because he's had some successes, so he thought in ukraine, he felt betrayed by the regular army. and he started speaking out like crazy on telegram and other memes, and people started hearing about this in russia, and i thought this was fantastic. here's this popular new guy who's winning some battles and ukraine, and he courses, just like putin used to before he got all fancy. and this went to prigozhin's head. and he thought that he could make a move on the defense secretary and the general staff and by implication of putin himself, and possibly to become a successor. do i think that he thought that he could enter red square and take over the kremlin like in some that movie, or like in august 1991? probably not. but he certainly thought that he was capable of raising his oat profile and power, and he

miscalculated that horribly. but nobody has miscalculated more horribly than putin himself now has three enemies, the ukrainian people who are embarrassing him now for a year and a half, the west, which used to hold him at least in careful regard, and now they see putin as a prime anime. and now, figures in the russian power structure itself so he is a war on three fronts. it is terribly expensive in life and treasure. and his power is now in greater jeopardy that it's ever been in those years. nobody wins. >> david remnick, i'm gonna take a quick break here. we have to take a break, and then i'm gonna come back. i have much more to ask you, including what's going to happen to prigozhin's private army, which we know -- which we don't know if he gets to take with him on his all expenses

paid trip to lovely minsk. we will be back with david remnick right after this. stay with us. with us and to know where you came from. doesn't that look like your papa? that's your great grandfather. it's like opening a whole 'nother world that we did not know existed. you finally have a face to a name. we're discovering together... it's been an amazing gift. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. we're discovering together... in my ozempic® tri-zone, i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. and you may lose weight. adults lost up to 14 pounds. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2,

or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may occur. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. join the millions already taking ozempic®. ask your health care provider about the ozempic® tri-zone. how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours. almost is just another word for not as good as mine. the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is now only $899. plus, 48-month financing on all smart beds. shop now only at sleep number

the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com how are folks 60 and older having fun these days?

family cookouts! [blowing] [dice roll] ♪ playing games! [party chatter] dancin in the par—! when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatment. research shows that taking h-i-v treatment as prescribed and getting to and staying undetectable prevents transmitting h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure.

rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your healthcare provider about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your healthcare provider. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. no matter where life takes you, biktarvy can go with you. talk to your healthcare provider today. >> we are back with david remnick, editor of the new yorker. david, they are sort of three indelible things that will be sort of changed forever, based on what happened this weekend in russia. one of them is prigozhin telling russia and telling the world that putin's war in ukraine is not for the reasons that he said it was. he said this war wasn't

intended to return our russian citizens, not to demilitarize or denazifying ukraine. -- someone telling the truth like that from his position in russia seems indelible. the prospect that putin left moscow when wagner troops were marching on to moscow's indelible. and the other thing that is indelible here is the fact that it's left unresolved what happened to the mutiny ring forces that prigozhin appears to have maybe brought with him to belarus. those who participated in the armed revolve are at large and we don't know what happens to this small military force right now. >> i think you've nailed it. i think you nailed it entirely. look at the contrast between the way zelenskyy reacted to an invading russian army. what did he do? remember his line? i don't need a ride. i need arms.

and he stayed on the streets of kyiv, and he took selfies, and he addressed that people with courage and good humor. as opposed to putin who disappeared for many, many hours at a time. i don't know that he fled moscow. usually, he or it's out of a compound outside of moscow, or a palace in sochi. it's not quite like the white house. but what's been punctured here in all three of the things that you express, and i think you are exactly right, is the wizard of oz-like sense of mystery and power and all knowing this that he projects to the russian people and directly through his propaganda. that is shattered, or at least badly, badly wounded. and for a dictator, for a dictator, that's everything. and now, that is in question. >> david remnick, editor of the new yorker, and a guy i most wanted to speak to with these unfolding events this weekend. david, thank you for making

time to be here. i appreciate it. >> great to speak with you, rachel. >> all right, we've got much more ahead for you tonight. do stay with us. do stay with us. with fasenra. fasenra is an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma. having too many eosinophils, a type of white blood cell, can cause inflammation and asthma symptoms. fasenra is designed to target and remove eosinophils and helps prevent asthma attacks. fasenra is 1 dose every 8 weeks. fasenra can help patients to breathe better. most patients did not have an asthma attack in the first year. and fasenra helps lower the use of oral steroids. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. get back to better breathing. and get back to your life. ask your doctor about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.

♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ cargurus. shop.buy.sell.online.

so, you've got the power of xfinity at home. now take it outside with xfinity mobile. ♪ like speed? it's the fastest mobile service around. with the best price for two lines of unlimited. only $30 bucks a line per month. that's hundreds in savings a year when you wave bye to the other guys. save hundreds a year on your wireless bill over t-mobile, at&t and verizon. and right now, get up to $1000 off select samsung phones. >> one last thing before i go. switch today.

i have a new podcast. it is called rachel maddow presents deja news. it's only six episodes altogether. episode number three just came out today. you know how republicans say the election was stolen, and it was all voter fraud, and they are sure they can prove it, but they never do. they ran that exact same play almost exactly the same way in the 1960s. it is uncanny, and it involves all the cast of characters that will surprise you, a bunch of people that are still shaping our politics even today. again, it is called deja news. episode three is out right now. it is free to listen wherever you get your podcasts. you can also just use your phone to scan that black and white box thingy -- right there. on your screen, if you scan