gone prosay. usually lawyers advise you it's not a good idea but that's how this one played out so far. we'll hear in the next few weeks, next week likely, how this is going to play out. >> i can honestly say i've never heard anything like that. that's going to do it for us this hour. join us every weekday 1:00 to 3:00 p.m. eastern. our coverage continues now with katy tur reports. h katy tur reports good to be with you. i'm katy tur. first there were reports then there was a transcript in jack smith's indictment and now there is the full audio recording. nbc news has now obtained the tape of donald trump allegedly talking about a classified document he took with him from the white house while recording an interview for mark meadows

book. a ten secret document the special counsel argues the president showed four people in the room. a writer, publisher and two of his white house aides. >> these are bad, sick people. >> that was your cue, you know, against you. >> started -- >> talking about oh, we're going to try to -- no, they were trying to do that before you even were sworn in. that's right. >> with millie, i'll show you an example. he said that i wanted to attack iran. isn't that amazing, a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. look. it was him. they presented me this. this is off the record, but they presented me this. this was him. this was the defense department and him. we looked at him. this was him. this wasn't done by me. this was him. all sort of stuff.

pages. let's see here. >> yeah. >> isn't that amazing? this totally wins my case, you know. except it is highly confidential, secret. this is secret information. look at this. attack. >> hillary would print that out all the time. >> she send it to anthony weiner. >> yeah. >> by the way, isn't that incredible? >> yeah. >> just saying because we were talking about it and he said he wanted to attack iran and what. this was done by the military given to me. i think we can probably -- >> we'll have to see. have to try to -- >> declassify it. >> yeah. >> as president, i can declassify it but now i can't. >> now we have a problem. >> isn't that interesting.

>> so cool. and you probably almost didn't believe me but now you believe me. >> no, i believed you. >> it's incredible. bring some cokes in, please. >> so how damning is that tape and is there any wiggle room? if so, what else will the special counsel need from that room to lock their argument down in the face of whatever donald trump's defense team might argue. and might jack smith already have that evidence? after all, you've got to wonder how smith even knew about that tape in the first place. did someone in that room, someone who may have seen that document, tell him? joining me now is ryan riley and josh dossy. so that tape, ryan, tell us everything we know about it. >> it's pretty strong evidence. this was cited initially in jack smith's indictment and we knew generally what this sound, but it's a whole different thing hearing donald trump talk about

these classified documents. it sort of goes to his state of mind, his intent, using this classified materials to essentially settle political scores with i guess someone who doesn't particularly like. so using classified information in that way i think is something that you know, the prosecutors would basically play this for the jury and rest a lot of their case on it essentially because it really does speak to his state of mind and exactly what he was thinking and also goes to this idea that he knew what he was doing was wrong because you know, if you listen to it, he's saying he could have declassified this when he was president. he no longer can and there's even a little pushback it seems from an aide there about this idea he maybe didn't get it to them somehow and them thinking it wasn't such a great idea. i think it speaks to donald trump's state of mind and could be used going forward by prosecutors because it's just really strong evidence for them to present to a jury. >> josh, it's one thing to hear it in a transcript, to read

about the reports, but hearing this tape, is there reaction from donald trump? i know he reacted ahead of this to fox news saying he was just showing newspaper clippings. is there any reaction? >> i haven't seen anything other than him reposting arguments on truth social by various conservative commentators that were investigating the tape and saying it was taken out of context and other arguments. i think his team was still absorbing it. it came out last night. some of the lawyers and advisers around him had heard it before. this was not entirely new information to some of the people around him. maybe what he said on the tape, but i have not seen any sort of reaction from him yet. there seems to be various strategies they're trying here. one sort of decrying the leaks to the news media. two saying it showed him doing nothing wrong. putting out a statement last

night and that it was taken out of context. three, liken it to other investigations in the past. this isn't fully settled yet on how they want to fight back on him. i think partially because a lot of people around him who have known him for years sort of privately admitted today and last night when i was having conversations with people. it was not good fact for him. that tape was, a lot was just right out in the open. he says all the things they say. shows intent. shows state of mind. so i think they're still grappling with that. >> talk to me about the january 6th case. the other case that donald trump is stands to be indicted for both in georgia and potentially within the federal government again with jack smith about what's going on or what he did ahead of january 6th. in georgia specifically, brad raffensperger will be speaking to a grand jury about that phone

call that donald trump made asking to find the necessary votes. what can you tell us about that, josh? >> so the january 6th investigation is sort of barrelling forward on several different tracks. one is looking at a track by several of his lawyers to you know the fake elector effort they did after the election where they were trying to get others to come in and say they were with trump. then they're looking into wire fraud and whether if trump and his team knew if some of the claims they were making to raise money in tv ads and web ads were fault and extensively asking questions about that then a georgia investigation. if you look at the j 6 part of this investigation, a lot of the focus has been on the documents and boxes and mishandling of classified information and potential obstruction of justice and those charges. that jury is active in washington. they're taking new witnesses

every week. interviewing state officials, trump officials. interviewing really people on all sorts of topics. our report would indicate they've gotten e-mails and notes on the campaign and in the white house. they're really forging ahead. i think obviously it's too early to say if they'll bring charges or not but the investigation is incredibly active by all accounts. >> you know, we asked and now we have received donald trump has spoken to fox news digital about this audio tape and he's changed his story a bit. i'll read it. after the release of the audio tape of the conversation, trump tells fox quote that the desk full of papers were mostly newspaper clippings and other materials. he did not outright deny having a classified document but said what he told bair last week was quote absolutely fine and very perfectly.

end quote. trump continued according to fox digital, we had a lot of papers, a lot of papers stacked up. in fact, you hear the rustle of the paper. there's donald trump's most recent defense. gentlemen, thank you very much. joining me now is florida defense attorney, john sail. he served on the watergate team. turned down the opportunity to join donald trump's defense team last year. john, good to have you. >> nice to be here. >> if you were donald trump's defense team now and you heard that tape, what would be the argument you would make in court about it? >> whatever argument i'd make in court donald trump makes it harder and harder every time he goes on television. the government has filed a motion to 84 witnesses under seal. i think they need to amend that and make it 85 because now donald trump has become the best witness the government has, jack smith has, in order to likely

convict him. >> why do you say this? because the response he just gave about the papers or just the tape itself? >> just listen to it. he's committing the crime and in his own voice, you can read a transcript and you can explain it. you can say well, it was just bragging. well, he says look at the papers. let me show them to you. yes, he could say that well they were just magazines. if he says that, then he was lying to his own people. but they have witnesses who weren't in the grand jury. we don't know what they said. but since we know there are a lot of witnesses, 84 witnesses at a minimum, there are witnesses who are going to testify as to just what they were shown and those people did not have clearance. you know, president trump says this is about the presidential records act and it's not but in the court of public opinion, so what in he misstate it is law. but here, a jury is not going to think this is just a dispute about who possesses documents

and a bunch of magazines and golf shoes. that's nonsense. he's talking about iran. our battle plans. all of a sudden, the jury is going the say oh, my god, this is national defense information. what i would advise is you can't undo what's happened but looking ahead to georgia, where there's a tape and raffensperger is going in the grand jury, i would say mr. president, please don't say anything public about that. because we can defend that. there's an argument. but if you go on television and you say something and if they can prove it's false then as attorney general barr said, you'll be toast. >> wiggle room. i think there's been arguments that there's some wiggle room with what he said to raffensperger. find the votes doesn't necessarily mean make the votes up or produce them out of thin air, but find the votes because he was so sure there were votes there. although i think there are questions about the exact number he was using. but in this case where he's talking about the documents, is it also presumed that jack smith

has people inside that room describing what he was showing? >> we don't know what he has inside the room, but i sure think so. if one thing he's shown is that he's thorough and professional. president trump's real response to this has been calling names. he calls jack smith a thug. that doesn't advance the ball for him or no matter how much he talks about hillary clinton, he will not be able to do that at trial. so it would be a challenge, you know, i think lawyers are up for challenges, but representing mr. trump, you simply have to do your best to say mr. president, i know you're running for president and i know you need to defend yourself and i don't blame you but there's certain things, please don't talk about them because wiggle room isn't a bad thing. reasonable doubt, convincing one juror and we as defense lawyers but the more you make statements like that, the more difficult it is to create reasonable doubt.

>> so if they are able to successfully argue donald trump was in fact showing a classified document in that room to people who didn't have clearance, is that a slam dunk for the whole case? is it over? >> i think the difference is that jurors are going to care. they're going to all of a sudden think this hurts the national defense. talking about iran, you could jeopardize people's lives and donald trump on the core, on the tape says hey, this is cool. well, it's not cool, mr. president. not to talk about military plans to attack iran. you don't talk about that casually and you don't laugh about it. >> let me ask you about judge cannon's decision to deny jack smith's request to keep a list of 84 potential witnesses secret. 85 now, you joked about that. why would prosecutors want these names under wrap and why might the judge deny this?

>> there's two answers. they might want them under wraps because they don't want crazies to go after them. this is different. i had a lot of cases in the southern district of florida. we don't get witness lists like that. jack smith does not have to file them. all he has to do is give them to the defense team and he has a protective order and there's no need to file them. once you file something, there's a very compelling argument the public has a right to know it. things should not be under seal unless there's a darn good reason. just give to mr. trump's defense team with the protective order what the discovery is and there's no reason for them to be filed with the court. >> so he doesn't have to file. all he has to do is hand it over to trump's team, which would render this decision by cannon moot? >> i think so. she denied this request without prejudice. there is no reason to file names of witnesses with the court. it's between the parties

discovery. absent the court order. >> i know you said you predict this is going to start in the fall. jack smith has just asked for it to get moved from august to december 11th. when are we going to find an answer from cannon and is that your expectation that's when we'll see a trial? >> first of all, it is a fall. >> maybe a week or two before the fall. it's a variable. sure. yeah. i'll give it to you. >> i'll take it. i think judge cannon doesn't want to run into the case. the only thing that would prevent it from going is the issue with classified documents. she's going pursuant to the case manager and at the conference, they're going to talk about are the cloernss being expedited, how much time does it really need to review classified documents. why aren't redacted documents of summaries good enough?

she'll set a schedule and i think she's going to try if it's fair to both parties, to have this case set on or before when the government is asking for it to be tried. >> love having you on because you know florida and the way things work down there. also, you know when there's wiggle room and you'll tell me when there's wiggle room. appreciate it, jon sale. thank you very much. donald trump's attorneys are in court right now pushing to take the manhattan hush money case against trump out of d.a. bragg's hands. trump's legal team argues the case should move to federal court because they argue bragg is politically motivated and the alleged actions were related to trump's time as president. there are, federal. the d.a.'s office is opposing. up next, they failed. what a senate committee found the senate and law enforcement communities did not do ahead of

january 6th. zblfrmts plus, the president of belarus said he told the president not to rush on a decision to kill the head of the wagner group. what he says he then told prigozhin. and what state legislatures will not be able to do in the next presidential election. a major ruling from the supreme court today that indirectly protects federal election results. we are back in 60 seconds. lecti results. we are back in 60 seconds. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ )

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we kind of overuse the word scathing but it's a good way to describe this report. >> yeah, you're right. and in particular, the homeland security committee and the united states senate, the majority staff there, specifically places a lot of the blame on the fbi and department of the homeland security's intelligence and analysis department, which in part is responsible for taking in this information, interpreting it and then warning the various agencies about how they should respond leading up to an event such as what we saw on january 6th. among the other things that this report determined is that the failures were very similar to the lack of understanding the intelligence leading up to the 9/11 terrorist attacks back in 2001. they also truly believe that the capitol security, the local metropolitan police department would have been much better prepared had this intelligence been shared with a degree of specificity to these different

groups prior to january 6th and also goes to great pains to not absolve donald trump's role. they state he was fuelling much of the violence. listen to how the committee's chairman described it to me in an interview yesterday. >> there was a coordination between agencies. same thing that happened in 9/11. after the attack at the capitol and as we continue to pursue this investigation, you get a lot of finger pointing. every agency is pointing at the other saying they're the ones that dropped the ball and that's unacceptable. >> and gary peters also believes that the administration, these agencies, have to do a better job of sharing with congress exactly what they think went wrong and what they're going to do to fix it going forward. >> thank you very much. coming up, protecting elections. what the supreme court just did to make it harder for states to

overturn election results. first up, putin will squash you like a bug. the president of belarus describes what he said to get prigozhin to stand down. ith liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ the subway series? it's the perfect menu lineup. just give us a number, we got the rest. number three? the monster. six? the boss. fifteen? titan turkey. number one? the philly. oh, yeah, you probably don't want that one. look, i'm not in charge of naming the subs.

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after putin and prigozhin got their say in last night, this morning, the president of belarus described his role in what happened in russia over the weekend in a belarusian state tv

interview. he said he spoke to putin on saturday morning and talked about what to do with the wagner chief including potentially killing him. but lukashenko says he told putin not to rush his response. he then says he spoke with prigozhin and told him putin would quote squash him like a bug. state media in belarus says the now exiled wagner head is within their borders. joining me from moscow is keir simmons. that's quite a readout from lukashenko. what do we know about what prigozhin stands in the eyes of putin and what about the men he was leading? >> reporter: yeah. it's an interesting readout and makes sense, some of it. for example, president lukashenko talked about starting to reach prigozhin then finding him through the deputy defense

ministry of russia and we have that video of that. so some of it does seem to tie. i think what it does tell us and some of the other information we've gotten through in the past 24 hours is that maybe this was less of a -- and less an uprising and lid coming off rivalries of people around putin then others around putin trying to put the lid back on. we got from president putin today a picture of further picture of his anger at one point saying, at one point, he was allied to prigozhin, saying he paid prigozhin and his companies $2 billion in the past year to do various roles including of course running his wagner group now. you asked about where are they now. what happens now. again, it's difficult to know.

saying that prigozhin is in, is there in that country and the russians today saying that they will not prosecute soldiers from the wagner group and putin saying they can go to belarus or go back to their fans or join the russian military. so there are still lot of questions but i think some of the answers we have really begun to understand just by the fact so many people have been talking. most of all what we're seeing is the kremlin sending a message to russia that putin is in control. we've seen him standing in front of his security ranks officers praising them saying they helped divert a civil war. there's been a real effort to show, to make sure the optics are in place that president putin is asserting his authority. >> thank you very much. again for a moment on saturday, it looked like prigozhin might be leading a coup but a moment later, it was over.

and now prigozhin says his intention was never to overthrow putin. he said this in an audio released yesterday, but it did give russians along with the rest of the world, what happened on saturday, a glimpse at what the end of putin could look like. joining me now, the author of why coups fail, brian kloss. thanks for being here. again for a moment, it looked like prigozhin was leading a coup yesterday. what got him to turn around? why didn't that work? >> well we don't know for sure but we can speculate because dictators tend to use whatever leverage they have during coups and that can be family members, death threats. simply a menacing amount of force to show they're going to lose. that's because coups are not really about who has the superior force. they're basically pr battles where you're trying to create an

aura of inevitability. it's like a sports team. you have empty stadiums when the team is performing badly. as soon as it looks like they're going to make a run for the championship, everybody joins. that effect happens in successful coups. so what prigozhin was probably tieing to do was to create this aura of inevitability, i'm going to win, and hope all these elites were going to defect and join him and that could have caused putin's regime to collapse or for prigozhin to be able to extort concessions from putin. obviously that didn't happen and the longer it dragged on and the more it became likely that prigozhin was going to die, i suspect more leverage they had against him. >> there was talk about putin setting up a coup proof system. explain what this is. >> yeah, so two-thirds of dictators since world war ii have been toppled in coups. so when you have a dictator, the first thing you think about is

how to protect yourself from one and often you've come to power in a coup and you're aware this is the way you might meet your demise. sometimes it involves playing different factions off each other. so jockeying for position in favor in the regime. sometimes as simple as paying people handsomely so when guys with guns come, they fire back rather than shooting you. this sort of tra torian gulf around the dictator. other times you have elite special forces groups, which is what russia has as well, trying to protect putin to the end. there were certain measures putin had in place and on top of that, h e tried to assert dominance by saying he was in charge. this is something erdogan did, a facetime message to say i'm still in charge. it's because the timing is so important where that sort of moment of vulnerability is a very dangerous one and you want to show people i'm still in

control. >> you're still there. you talk about two-thirds of dictators being overthrown by coups since world war ii. used to be more common. but thailand is a place where this happens pretty consistently. explain what's going on in thailand. >> yeah, so there's different kinds of coups. a series. they've had many since 1932. the military gets together and says time's up and they get together anned turn on the government. there's no real resistance because the entire military has said it's time to go so there's no fight. this is different in russia and more standard as a strategy where it's a splintered group within part of the military security apparatus and those are more uncertain because you have two factions or more than two factions vying for power. and that's where things can go really wrong really quickly because everybody is operating in the sort of fog of war,

right? you can't go down to the local general's office and crack open a beer and say you know, what do you think about me overthrowing the government? would you be with me? because the second you do that, the secrecy goes away. everything you do the flying blind. you don't know who's lying and telling the truth. so you have a huge amount of miscalculation because everyone is operating on bad information which is why even someone like me who studies coups really had no idea how it was going to end on saturday because these things pivot wildly based on timing and luck and other chance events. >> is the instability now gone? is it stable? is putin out of the dark or we still in a moment where who knows what might happen? >> dictators operate on a myth. that everyone loves them and no one opposes them. when a plot is underway, it exposed that. everyone knows there's real dissent in russia and

splintering in the military. you can't put that back together. those cracks are still going tok visible. so what dictators tend to do in these situations is to make symbolic purges of their adversaries to try to reassert control and i wouldn't be surprised if putin tries to ramp up violence in ukraine to show he's a strong man. the most dangerous thing for him is if people think he's weak, more coup plotters will consider taking their shot or others will try to back rivals, et cetera. and there could be sort of this plot to overthrow him in the works. so it's a very fragile time for him and a very dangerous time for the world and one in which putin's next moves will be motivated by fear and paranoia. >> thank you very much. come up, the ruling was on gjere gerrymandering. and what it would mean to

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in a 6-3 ruling, the supreme court rejected north carolina republican lawmakers to grant more power to the state

legislation. while the focus was on gerrymandering, many were concerned a ruling in favor of republicans would have had a broad and dangerous consequence. joining me now, mark aalias. explain briefly the merits of what we saw today. >> this is a great case for democracy. the right wing had been pedaling this theory that in a nutshell said when state legislatures draw maps for federal races or pass laws that govern federal elections, congressional, senator, presidential, that somehow they're immune. they don't have to pay attention to state constitutions and the state judges don't have to see what they do.

they got rejected soundly. >> come 2024, there was building concern that a state legislature if this was proven, if this was upheld by the supreme court that a state legislature could say actually, we don't like the result of the election, we're going to put these results in instead. did i get that right? >> you did. this is a john eastman pick. the independent state legislature doctrine doesn't exist without eastman. as the lawyer who led more than 60 victories for joe biden against donald trump, this is a big relief. we were fighting those cases one by one. we were fighting these theories and to have the supreme court put this to rest so we don't have to worry about it in the future is a real advantage. >> when the court said listen, you can't overturn the result of the election or you can't submit new electors because you don't like the original ones, this is the supreme court saying this is

what the state court's rule is. they have the authority to do that. >> absolutely. so they said basically i think one thing directly, one indirectly. the first is where a state court says this is where the law is in our state or what our state constitutional requires, that's the end of the rope. so that's the first thing. the second is by inference and i think a pretty strong inference, it also says that the state legislatures are not these omnipotent entities and they can't decide to disregard election results because they don't like them and come up with new ones. that's what we faced when texas tried to go to the u.s. supreme court. that's what we faced when john eastman and other republican lawyers tried to convince courts and convince donald trump to disregard the electoral college results. is that the end of it because brett kavanaugh had an opinion as well where he said the court is likely to revisit this scope of what state authority has in terms of elections.

are you preparing for something else in the works? >> so look, i really think this is the end of the road and here's why. you point out this was a 6-3 decision so the fact kavanaugh filed a separate concurrence, he was alone in that which means there were five justices who didn't join the hey, maybe we want to revisit this. the second is when you look at the three, justice alito didn't opine on anything other than he didn't think the case was proper before the court. i don't put a lot of stock in the fact he would come along with the anti, where a strong anti isl view, but i think there are five justices that have spoken clearly, that they are done with this ridiculous theory. >> what does it say to you that chief justice john roberts was the one who wrote the majority opinion? >> i think that the chief justice wanted to put an exclamation point at the end of this.

he wrote also the allen b. milligan case that think firm was involved in just last week that created a black majority district in alabama. he wrote that decision. i think he wanted to put a period, an exclamation on section two of the voting rights act and i think this was the bookend to that. there are a lot of things justice roberts wants to do that are in my view, detrimental to the law and society, but i think elections, he wants to tell the court they're not in that business. >> thank you very much for joining us. we appreciate you laying out the stakes and what was avoided today. >> thank you. >> that was today's supreme court decision. affirmative action could be next. what decision colleges are preparing for. we'll explain. don't go anywhere. g for. we'll explain. don't agonywhere.

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had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. the supreme court is about to break for the summer holiday, which is why we are seeing a flood of important decisions. the next one could be a landmark ruling to strike down affirmative action. colleges are now bracing for what that would mean for the admissions process. joining me now is nbc news senior legal correspondent. we've been waiting for this for a while and in that time, you've gone out and explored what it would mean. >> we've talked to dozens of

administrators and they're very, very worried. the reason why is at least six of the justices seem very skeptical about using race even though since 1978, the court has said you can race in a limited way as a plus factor. essentially as one part of many different aspects of somebody's life. the court says if you want to create a diverse student body, you can take that into account. but now the court may completely reverse course and say you cannot use race at all when it comes to someone, you know, potentially applicant for you can't consider it at all. if they go that far, the schools have pointed to places that have already banned affirmative action like california and what you see in those places is the rates of students of black and hispanic drop right away by 50%. >> i was reading a piece in "the atlantic" by a man named bertrand who said he went to harvard. he's a black man, and he found that when he got there the

diversity was certainly diverse on race, but it wasn't diverse on income and background. while there was a lot of diversity, he didn't see a lot of people like him, poor, black kids making their way up to harvard. that's an argument that pushes back against the affirmative action process to say it helped, but it didn't help up and down the way it promised it would. >> it's one of the arguments you heard made by the lawyers who brought this case who sued harvard and north carolina saying essentially you can still use socioeconomic factors, you can use someone's zip code. you can even have an essay talking about all of the ways that things have sort of impacted your life and maybe class and race is all mixed up into that. you just can't use race alone. >> the author was bertrand cooper. so when they go forward is there a plan to start talking about using income or using -- >> yes. >> -- you know, zip code to try

to figure out a way to get a more interesting and diverse body of students in the school? are they finding ways to get around using race? >> that's what they're looking at right now. they're trying to come up with plan b. perhaps, you know, some of them we've sort of already scrapped. >> s.a.t. scores, i would have liked that. >> of course, everyone would. but the most sort of interesting one i think is the idea of getting rid of legacy because a place like harvard has depended a lot on creating that billion dollar and multibillion dollar endowment through legacy, and through donations of people who have gone for generations. maybe one of the things they would be open to if you can't use race anymore. >> got it, laura jarrett, we'll see what happens. thursday is the next decision day. >> thursday for sure, could be friday as well. coming up, kevin mccarthy does damage control after saying donald trump is not the strongest republican candidate. is it -- isn't necessarily the

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win that election? yeah, he can. >> you think he can? >> is he strongest to win that election? anybody can beat biden. can biden beat other people, yes, biden can beat him. >> speaker kevin mccarthy is now doing damage control claiming they were taken out of context, but were they? joining me now from concord, new hampshire, is nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. you're there because donald trump is there, ron desantis is there. they're about 40 miles apart. they're the two leaders, even though donald trump is leading by a large margin over desantis. but let's talk about mccarthy. i mean, it's interesting for him to waiver even a little bit on

donald trump. >> reporter: waver a little bit, he did that once after january 6th when he said that he bears some responsibility for the insurrection but then days later found himself back at mar-a-lago, stood for the photo with donald trump, and the house republican caucus seemed to be linking back up in arms with donald trump over the next three years. that's where we find ourselves with this. i think it's notable, in this house caucus there have been few republicans that have actually endorsed ron desantis, there's only one that has endorsed nikki haley. it's notable. the walkback hours later suggesting that donald trump is actually joe biden's biggest political opponent is notable. here for the folks here, actually, i think we have a little sound with some of them. maybe we can play some of it. i was asking folks about whether they were concerned whether donald trump was damaged as a general election candidate. take a listen. >> trump concern you guys about him politically going into the next year? >> i think -- >> there's new audio that came

out from a conversation he had -- >> i heard it this morning. >> what did you make of the audio? >> i don't know enough about it to comment. >> but it's not deterring you? >> not at all. >> i loved the cartoon showing the voice behind trump saying you're not going to withstand the tornados that are coming at you, and he said i am the tornado. >> reporter: so you got some folks that are defiantly defending donald trump, but you've also got some that are uncomfortable by the indictments as you heard from that second woman. they come to support the man. they say they will -- in the primary they will support him. of course there is going to be a contingency not in that boat. can kevin mccarthy sway some others? that's what we're figuring out in realtime. >> are the crowds you're seeing there today anything like the crowds in the past? are you seeing any difference? are they just as enthusiastic, just as big? >> they are. i looked around our team here in the middle of it. this is actually a republican

women's luncheon, you know, and there was no indication to me that this room of about 400 folks was going anywhere but to donald trump. there is not some ground swell movement away from him. kind of like, you know, eight years ago all of a sudden bernie sanders was a clear alternative to hillary clinton who saw folks consistently coming out wearing the paraphernalia. it's not like you're at an event like this that is supposed to be neutral and several of the leaders told us it's a neutral group. i just have little reason to believe that at least among republican party activists like the women in this room, that there is that much room here, katy. >> vaughn, thank you very much. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. if a picture is worth a thousand words, then a tape just mig