fundamentally important issues. and what we've done in our politics is create a situation where we're electing idiots. sb [ applause ] >> and so i don't look at it through the lens of is this what i should do or shouldn't do? i look at it through the lens of how do we elect serious people. and i don't think electing serious people can't be partisan. >> liz cheney with a statement on the politics. i wonder who she's talking about? perhaps the leaders facing federal charges connected with mishandling nuclear secrets? perhaps it's donald trump and others. this comes as we learn more about the doj's efforts to search trump's new jersey golf

clubs over concerns that more documents were stashed there. also ahead, a big win in the fight against the big lie. we'll go through the monumental decision from the supreme court and we'll get expert analysis on the situation in eastern europe following a failed revolt against vladimir putin. secretary of state, antony blinken will be on the show this morning. good morning and welcome to "morning joe," it is wednesday june 28th. with us we have the host of "way too early" jonathan lemire. u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay and white house editor for politico, sam stein. joe is is on assignment but willy and i are here and donald trump is rolling out yet another excuse for that leaked audio tape that appeared to have him showing up classified documents to people.

in an interview with fox news digital yesterday the former president professed his innocence and accused the media, even fox, of conspireing against him. here's a portion of the leaked tape from august of 2021, followed by trump's defense yesterday. >> wait a minute. let's see here. >> yeah. >> i just found -- isn't that amazing? this totally wins my case, you know. except it is like highly can feel, secret. secret this is secret information. this was done by the military, given to me. i think we can probably -- right? >> i don't know. we'll have to see. yeah, we'll have to try to -- >> declassify it. >> yeah. >> if i was president, i could declassify it. but now i can't. >> we have a problem. >> isn't that interesting? ? >> yeah. >> i had a desk full of newspapers, mostly newspaper

articles, copies of magazines, copies of stories having to do with many many subjects. and what was said was fine and perfectly. we did nothing wrong. we had a lot of papers stacked up p. you could hear the rustle of the paper and nobody said i did anything wrong, other than the fake news, which, of course, is fox, too. >> later in the day trump altered his defense again with a discussion with reporters. the former president claimed the plans he was discussing on the leaked tape was related to his real estate properties. he said, i would say it was bravado if you want to know the truth. i was talking, holding up the papers and talking about them. but i didn't have documents. did i use the word plans?

what i'm referring to is magazines, newspapers, plans of buildings. i had plans of buildings, you know. plans. i had plans -- i'm sorry. willie. he had me at, you could hear me at the rustle of the papers, of the iran plans. >> he has such contempt for his voters or assumes he hasn't heard the tape that what we calls on that tape from bedminster, a defense department document says -- sometimes you have to laugh at the absurd dy. it's plans for a golf course, a building he was working on. and he had a bit of a self-affirmation telling himself he's a legitimate person. >> you're not concerned with your voice on those recordings? >> my voice is fine. i didn't even see the recording.

>> are there any other recordings we should be concerned with? >> i don't know of any recordings that we should be concerned with because i don't do things right, i do it right, i'm a legitimate person. >> there's an element of stewart smalley there, i'm a legitimate person. >> i don't do things wrong. >> it also speaks to the impunity that he has operated with with his supporters, saying i can say these were plans for a golf course or a building despite what's on the tape and they'll buy it. >> it seems like it was an evolution, building plans, golf course, that's what it was. it's nonsensical and shows a lack of respect for the people who have followed him this far. he feels like he can say anything and they will believe it. >> it's true. >>le polling suggests that he's not wrong.

and a lot of republicans, elected officials, important figures, will follow him too. whether they believe it or not, they'll profess they do in order to not anger him or his voters. he's lived, for the most part, a political life of no consequence. gets away with whatever he wants. he did lose an election and the story there is he didn't and people believe it too. and he faces legal challenges where there will be consequences he can't just talk away. >> katty kay, we'll get to the speakership discussions yesterday. where he had to quickly clean up the mess and scramble and by some reports called donald trump and apologized. it speaks to no matter whether he's telling the truth or pretending a classified document is golf course plan he's

protected by people around him. >> the mccarthy story is fascinating. there are nobody shoes i would want to be in less than mccarthy's in washington. having to field from his members who want to show they're loyal to trump and having to tamp down all of those revolts in his own party at the moment. but i was struck like john about the -- it's almost like he's thinking in real time, maybe they were building plans, that doesn't sound right, let's go with golf plans. there's a question mark after the building plans. he hasn't decided. he's thinking real time what's my latest defense going to be. you watch the fox news interview, we only have the transcript of the abc one, it's low energy. to coin a phrase from trump, he's not fighting there, he's not the bombastic i'm right. if you were to read the body

language around that interview, that seemed to me someone who was aware of the problems they were in and scrambling around for answers and excuses. >> no question things have gotten more serious for donald trump. i guess he's counting on enough people buying his version of the story that he was rustling around with golf plans. we're learning new details about special counsel jack smith's investigation into former president donald trump's handling of nuclear secrets after leaving the white house. "the new york times" is reporting this morning the prosecutors working for smith have issued at least one subpoena for surveillance footage from bedminster golf club. that's where the conversation on tape took place. two sources familiar with the matter said that comes after the government's request for footage from mar-a-lago, but it's not clear what the footage shows or why prosecutors wanted to obtain it. prosecutors fought ago pitched battle with mr. trump's lawyers

late last year over how best to search the new jersey property. specifically they discussed executing a search warrant at bedminster last fall because they were concerned more documents were stashed there p. that's according to two people briefed on the matter. one of those people told the times the justice department did not have probable cause to obtain a warrant from a judge. let's bring in reporter for "the washington post" jackie alamini with new reporting on how the prosecutors are perhaps zeroing in on the former president's bedminster golf club. what more can you tell us? >> my colleagues and i that this piece of evidence that we have heard this week of trump brandishing documents did come late in the game really in recent months ahead of the 49

page indictment that jack smith and his team unveiled last month but was a key and trillion piece of evidence that expedited and spurred the charges against former president trump. as former law enforcement officials and current law enforcement officials told us yesterday there's no piece of evidence that's more powerful at the end of the day than someone talking about the potential crime they committed in their own voice and words and on tape. that being said we too reported that there was not enough evidence or probable cause or in terms of the public perception of it political coverage to execute a search warrant at bedminster and at that point the trump lawyers had sort of adjusted their posture and were trying to comply with the court's order to make sure they had attested in some way to make sure they had fully complied

with the may 2022 subpoena, asking for trump to be responsive to a request for returning all classified materials in his position. but even before the august raid of mar-a-lago, the legally executed search warrant had occurred, prosecutors already knew that trump was taking these boxes back and forth. there was a lot of evidence that they had already collected about his habits but they had also concluded that the bulk of the material still were at mar-a-lago. >> jackie, it's sam stein here, i guess the question that hands over the bedminster portion of this is, what would jack smith do with a new jersey setting? judge aileen cannon in florida is overseeing this case, she's appointed by trump, a history of ruling in favor of trump's team. the question is if she gets an

adversarial hearing in florida, if he went to bedminster, how does that work functionally, do they have a chance to do that if they have one court hearing going on in palm beach area? >> this is certainly a question that has been in the bloodstream that a lot of trump officials, quite frankly, have been hypothesizing about. and there is the possibility that if things were to go south in florida that the charges could be brought in new jersey under this idea that the venue, that a place where the crimes were, in part, committed, was in new jersey. that being said, as we've seen all along, the special counsel and the team in its entirety has been extremely strategic. there was a lot of decision making and deliberation about where to bring charges to begin with, even with the possibility that aileen cannon would be

overseeing the trial and the calculation made they would be most successful in florida bringing these charges there at the end of the day, despite it being potentially positive grounds for donald trump. but again, this is someone who i don't think would have brought these charges and this idea of even trump coming up with these excuses that he didn't have a classified document. you have to think that jack smith already has potential witnesses lined up to appear in court to say what exactly they saw at this meeting. >> one of the focuses of the special counsel in the mar-a-lago documents case is not the fact that they were there at the beach club but there was obstruction when the national archives and others tried to get them back. "the new york times" this morning talking about bedminster suggesting there was some of that at bedminster as well. the trump legal team had to have its arm twisted to look for documents and wouldn't sign a document saying we checked

everywhere, got their own people to look, didn't look in certain areas at bedminster. did it sound like the special counsel may be looking at obstruction at bedminster as well? >> that's something we don't have the reporting on at the moment and we get into the back and forth occurring between trump's legal team and prosecutors at that time. there was one person in particular who was raising questions and concerns about doing -- hiring an outside team to conduct a search at bedminster, a top adviser and in-house counsel to former president trump but at the end of the day, the search at bedminster was conducted by the team and no additional materials were found. but again, there was some hesitation and reticence and conversations that did occur about searching bedminster and some hesitation, but obviously

prosecutors did not litigate the matter further and ultimately execute a search warrant. but, as for those obstruction charges, that again, is not -- that is not something that we're seeing bear out just yet at least. >> many legal experts will say this man has been caught in a lie. and as katty kay pointed out, his body language really does reflect that. he looks exhausted and he's sort of -- these little lies are coming out here and there, a smattering of lies here and a smattering of lies there. he is running for his life, running from jail time. jackie alameny thank you very much. we'll move to the big lie now, a major ruling from the supreme court which made it more difficult for the big lie to repeat itself in 2024. the case, moore versus harper out of north carolina centered on a radical theory known as the

independent state legislature theory. it would have given state legislatures unchecked power over federal elections based on an extreme interpretation of the constitution's election clause. in a 6-3 ruling the supreme court rejected that anti-democratic theory with chief justice john roberts and justices brett kavanaugh and amy coney barrett siding with the liberals writing the elections clause does not insulate state legislators from the ordinary exercise of state judicial review. john eastman, a legal adviser to donald trump embraced this fringe theory as a way to overturn the 2020 election.

arguing that then vice president mike pence had the power to overturn the results. claiming it would leave legislature will be impotent to address questions of obvious illegality. joining us to delve deeper into the ruling, josh gurstein. talk to us if you could what was at stake? >> this was significant on two fronts one involving the 2024 presidential race and the possibility you could have seen republicans specifically former president trump put forward this effort to put state legislatures on steroids to say they could be

the ultimate ash or the of who won an election in their state and that could have led to post election chaos. that is the plan that the trump team tried to run in 2020 but got cut off at the pass and the supreme court through the reasoning of the ruling makes it seem that's less likely here. the second front is the issue of the control of u.s. house of representatives and this decision seemed to shift the ground in favor of democrats in the overall way until this the redistricting is held to set up the districts. >> so to put it a different way, josh, can you explain what could have been if this went -- if the outcome was different? >> if the outcome was different, you could have seen a situation where state legislatures were emboldened some of the legal theories you were discussing before coming from john eastman,

who's now facing a disbarment proceeding, could have seen much more potentially credible in 2024 if we had a nail biter presidential election there. the notion each state should be in a position to decide where electors are going to go rather than a recognition of the will of the voters is the kind of po throw the whole election into chaos and the special counsel stepped away from that ruling with the 6-3 ruling. >> people were holding their breath awaiting the announcement because of democracy and what could have been different in 2024. any surprises as you talked to people in terms of the 6-3 vote perhaps it was kavanaugh and amy coney barrett?

>> yeah. they took a slightly different nuanced opinion from roberts but it's still a 6-3 super majority and there aren't that many votes in play that puts state legislatures at the apex of deciding how this turned out. that wasn't the core issue it was more around redistricting and the power of state legislatures in other elections. but it cuts the case that some legal activists were trying to make to go back to a more old fashioned approach where there didn't need to be elections and the electors in each state could be picked by the political leader there is. >> one of the fringe thinkers, john eastman in an interview acknowledged this ruling would make what he tried to do in 2020 murkier, that was his word.

he tried to push pence to overturn the election results and therefore keep donald trump in office. put it simply, do we think as the next election is on the horizon, did things get a little safer, fairer, should americans feel more secure their vote will be heard this time around? >> yes. it seems to put the nail in the coffin. i would say it's not as murky as mr. eastman was suggesting although it is a benefit for eastman as i said in this disbarment, legal discipline proceedings that he's facing because they got three supreme court justices to say this is a credible theory. so it doesn't seem that fringe if you have three supreme court justices that landed in that camp. >> although those are the particularly conservative members of the supreme court. can i look at the states where

there is republican control, republican legislatures, and what specifically in light of 2020 and -- what this would mean for those states? the. >> remember, you had rudy giuliani going across the country appearing in front of conservative state legislatures, gop controlled state legislatures making the case for election fraud. if this ruling had gone the other way you would have seen those state legislatures become an electoral tribunal of some sort and this decision says the courts are the ones playing that role not state legislatures. so if you're looking for the trump operation to sort of rerun that playbook in 2024, it makes this particular play not look that enticing or likely to be successful. >> i think we've exhausted the questions on the moore decision

here, your brilliant analysis aside can you look at the next cases to come and put it in the context of what roberts is trying to do about what is a free falling public opinion about the state of the supreme court? >> there are two schools of where the supreme court is headed. this could be a last minute concession in a more liberal or pro democrat direction before we get the decisions we're expecting on affirmative action, for example, where the court's direction has been to pull back from affirmative action so we're thinking the conservative justices will hold sway there and bring an end to affirmative action, particularly in college admissions. you have biden's student loan debt there, and a case on lgbtq rights. so you could see conservatives run the table but if you look at

the table and think that's what roberts is pursuing here, you see him as the institutionalist trying to get the court out of the political spotlight and return things to an era where every decision was not seen as political. it's just not clear whether he has that power in every case. you have a 6-3 republican conservative supermajority on the court and as we saw on the dobbs decision last year it's impossible for the court to ignore what roberts is recommending. >> josh gerstein thank you for your reporting this morning. a few more stories to get to. former house speaker nancy pelosi will headline a fund-raiser for reuben giaga tomorrow as he campaigns for the seat held by kyrsten sinema.

pelosi has not formerly endorsed him, but kyrsten sinema left the democratic party and registered as an independent late last year, days after democrats reached a slim 51-49 majority in the senate. she has not said whether she will run for re-election in 2024. giago a four-term congressman and retired marine has been critical of kyrsten sinema and announced a bid for her seat in january. the arizona senate race is one of many that determines which party controls the senate next year. a new department of justice report said misconduct at the correctional facility in new york allowed jeffrey epstein to die by suicide. they failed to monitor ep seen

the every 30 minutes as required and lied about it. he was allowed extra clothing in his cell. and the prison failed to make sure he had a cell mate as recommended. two were criminally charged. and ryan sea crest is set to take over wheel of fortune, replacing pat sajak who announced plans to retire hosting the game show after 41 seasons. seacrest signed an agreement to host the show. he's best known for hosting "american idol" he also co-hosted the day time talk show "live with kelly and ryan" for six years. he also assumed hosting duties from "american top 40" from

casey casem in 2004. so seacrest in. >> it was always going to be seacrest. it always is. >> john, great guy, talented guy, prolific guy. the question is -- congratulations to ryan, a great gig. but what about van na, does she decide to stay? >> i should know that ryan seacrest taking over way too early tomorrow. he's adding to his portfolio, he's ambitious that seacrest. he can buy all the vowels he wants. vana white in contract negotiations wants a raise, pat sajak made more than she did. he has moved on, but she is part of the institution, let us hope she stays and guides

mr. seacrest into his next television adventure. >> i agree, she should know her value. still ahead on "morning joe," new details surrounding the short lived rebellion in russia over the weekend. including reported claims from the president of belarus about his role in swaying vladimir putin from killing the mercenary chief leading the revolt. plus what u.s. intelligence officials are saying about advanced knowledge of plans for the rebellion by one of putin's own generals. antony blinken is our guest this morning we'll speak to him about the situation in russia, the war in ukraine, and u.s. relations with china and much more. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. atching "mo" we'll be right back.

what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

(pensive music) (footsteps crunching) (pensive music) (birds tweeting) (pensive music) (broom sweeping) - [narrator] one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food. no family dinners, no special treats, no full bellies. all around the world, parents are struggling to feed their children. toddlers are suffering from acute malnutrition, which stunts their growth. kids are forced to drop out of school so they can help support their families. covid, conflict, inflation and climate

have ignited the worst famine in our lifetime. and we're fed up. fed up with the fact that hunger robs children of their childhood. fed up with the lack of progress. fed up with the injustice. help us brighten the lives of children all over the world by visiting getfedupnow.org. for as little as $10 a month, you can join save the children as we support children and families in desperate need of our help. now is the time to get fed up and give back. when you join the cause, your $10 monthly donation can help communities in need of life-saving treatments and nutrients, prevent children from dropping out of school. support our work with communities and governments to help children go from short-term surviving to long-term thriving. and now thanks to special government grants, every dollar you give before december 31st can multiply up to 10 times the impact. that means more food, water, medicine

and help for kids around the world. you'll also receive a free tote bag to share your support for children in need. childhood without food is unimaginable. get fed up. call us now or visit getfedupnow.org today. wake up, achievers. you're making the most of every hour of your life. except the hours that you're sleeping. so why do we leave so much untapped potential on the table? this is a next level bed, for a next level you. my circadian rhythm is kicking your circadian rhythms butt! it's not a competition. i know, but i'm still winning! so, it is a competition. the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is now only $899. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. shop now only at sleep number. tired muscles and joints were keeping me from my family. now i can be myself again. blue-emu supports healthy muscles and joints. blue-emu, it works fast, and you won't stink.

what a beautiful shot of washington d.c. at 32 past the hour. the pentagon has announced an additional $500 million aid package to ukraine. this will be the u.s. government's 41st financial lifeline to kyiv. the munitions will assist ukrainian troops in their counteroffensive. "the new york times" reports the u.s. will send more munition to ukraine from stockpiles including stinger and patriot air defense missiles guided rockets. belarus media reports that yevgeny prigozhin arrived in belarus yesterday.

according to "the new york times" president aleksandr lukashenko spoke with state media about his phone calls with vladimir putin as saturday's rebellion unfolded. he said that putin suggested they kill the wagner leader but lukashenko advised against it, telling putin a bad peace is better than any war before calling prigozhin himself to warn him that putin was going to squash him like a bug. two dynamics i have questions about, number one does prigozhin survive this and now lukashenko making himself look like the winner here? it seems like everybody is going to get under vladimir putin's skin. >> too many people taking too much credit from vladimir putin. we'll see how that goes. joining us now james devietis

and brian claus. good morning, admiral, dust has settled on this head spinning couple of days in russia where prigozhin is on the doorstep of russia, one day out, thinks he can get to the gates of the kremlin. suddenly a deal brokered by lukashenko in belarus brings it to an end. where does it go from here? >> let's inside out. ground zero is prigozhin. i think he's a dead man walking literally. sooner or later. and i would guess probably sooner putin will decide i never forgive, i never forget, and he will take out prigozhin. how that occurs exactly i don't know. but if i were yevgeny prigozhin i wouldn't stand near any open windows at high altitude. go one click out and you're with putin. this hurts putin, it doesn't take him apart or destroy him.

if he was a stock, putin's value has probably gone down about 30%. but he's not a penny stock he still has capability, will continue to maneuver and he comes out of this. here's the third ring of this russian inferno. he comes out of this with intel on those around him. the generals who apparently didn't try to stop prigozhin. the intelligence services how diligent were they in reporting to him on this? how many of the oligarchs jumped on their private jets and went flying away? how many stuck around and tried to support him. putin has gathered a lot of intelligence. so look for a real pogram to unfold to take out those that displeased the leader in the kremlin. >> there was reporting that putin's generals knew this was coming and didn't tell vladimir

putin. go to the fourth ring and that's ukraine. if you're president zelenskyy and his generals. you're watching what happened over the weekend and thinking what? >> feeling good. you're saying to yourself, confusion amongst my enemies. the old napoleon quote, when you're my height you love to quote napoleon, never interrupt your enemy when he's in the process of making a terrible mistake. that's what happened here. on the other hand this is not a strategic shift in what's happening on the ground. the ukrainians still have to drive home this counter offensive on the ground. i think there are high fives but now they're putting their shoulders back to work on the counteroffensive. >> brian you've been studying coups around the world for a decade. and when it comes to russia you where, everyone loyalist or not,

can see that putin has been openly attacked, which conveys weakness. putin's forces in ukraine will wonder whether they should get killed in seemingly futile war particularly when the biggest territorial gains of the war so far have been in russia. even if the coup fizzles it'll change internal politics, putin's behavior and the battlefield tactics in ukraine. there's no good guys when two criminals vow for control of a nuclear power. however if you're trying to understand the logic of coups, look out for whether the loyalists stay loyal or peel off towards those challenging him. if important figures abandon the regime en masse, putin is toast. what's the likely of that? are you going to see the people peel away or is the iron grip of

putin strong enough it's not going to do it. >> usually the dictator feels vulnerable, afraid, with good reason, and they begin to purge people. this is a tactic in the short term because it reasserts the iron grip of the dictator. if putin doesn't do this, if he doesn't kill off prigozhin or end up cracking down on potential enemies, then more people will challenge putin and more people will get thoughts in their head that maybe he is weak and it's time to move against him. this is going to be a precarious moment in russian politics where in the war putin probably wants to send a signal of strength as well. dictators have bad information spaces everyone lies to everybody else in a dictatorship and this is a way they get information when the cracks break they can see what everyone actually thinks. so this is where a lot of moving

pieces start to settle in the coming weeks. a quick look at what this might mean for prospects of negotiations around ukraine overshadowed by the dramatic events of the weekend in russia itself, there was a meeting in copenhagen, which was an important meeting you had brazil, india, and south africa attending to discuss ukraine. you had these nonaligned countries that we want to bring in the orbit of the west actually with the ukrainian officials. and we have the nato meeting coming up over the next few week's time. has what happened over the weekend impact any negotiations that might be taking place or do we have to watch how the counteroffensive plays out? >> there's an increased propensity, i hope, on the part

of russia and he's a unitary decision maker as you know, it has to shake him a little bit. and secondly, the circle around him is shaken by this. and i think that all of that might lead to a bit more of a propensity to come to the negotiating table. let's go all the way out in the circle to beijing. this is important for us to understand how all this is received by president xi. he has watched this buffoonery on the part russia for almost a year and a half. he is losing patience with that situation, knows this could end badly, is concerned about an escalation that cracks the global economy. he will put pressure on putin, i hope. on the other side it's a different burn rate. here it's our patience. how long are we willing to fund and support ukraine? i would argue we ought to make

that indefinite. there are others who might put pressure. so those two things you're right to pose the question. i think will begin to put pressure, in a positive way, towards a negotiation but not immediately. >> brian, sam stein here. i'm wondering if you, like me, were spending the weekend con templaing the idea that what comes after vladimir putin is worse we don't want to deal with wagner group as a de facto arm running russia. if you're in in the u.s. government, which is our way to look into this, what do you think -- how do you manage this? can you manage this? do you have any impact in trying to mitigate against the worst outcomes of a potential coup, or are you captive to events? >> i mean, coups normally produce dictatorships as well. you normally swap one for the other. and sometimes the knockdown effects can then be very negative because the new

dictator becomes pair enjoyed about the military, miscalculate make decisions out of fear. so there are no good guys here. i think the most likely outcome of a transition in russia is another dictatorship. the system has to change. the problem is anyone who can navigate their way to the top in russia has to be a murderous crook, effectively. in order to change that you have to change the levers of power. that means changing the top people in the military and security apparatus. it means changing the oligarch structure. that's not going to happen quickly. i think for the u.s. government and western allies, the key thing to look out for is the moments of change. you have to be ready. you have to be there to try to put your finger on the scale a little bit when the transition happens to encourage a better outcome. not to necessarily force it or anything like that but to say we are here to support you if you want to become more democratic, leave putin-ism behind this is

what we can give you. that is the approach when putin does fall. >> the president made clear that they communicated to moscow we had nothing to do with what was happening on saturday. they delivered that message. there's a school of thought though that putin was pushed to negotiate, something he didn't doing, in part because he didn't want to see violence erupt 100 miles from moscow, didn't want to see russians killing other russian. does that open up a window, the threat of violence in russia is something to make putin act? that's a red line they can nudge whether it is f-16s or a nod and wink to ukraine that it's okay to attack over the border? if. >> that's a smart observation. i know our friends at the cia are parsing all of that. the good news is we have a brilliant mind there in bill burns, ambassador burns. former ambassador to russia. director of the cia.

he's taking counsel with the rest of the national security team, jonathan. i think you're right, they will look for the nuances in what has occurred and play them forward. final thought, as you look at the events of this mutiny and you think back in history, go back 100 years ago to the russian revolution. go back to 1917 is when the czar falls but it's 1905 when the mutiny on the naval vessel occurs. that lights the fuse that ends up, to the professor's point, blowing up that particular dictator. the challenge and he's right, will be making the turn, making the transition, if that occurs. >> wow, retired admiral james the vie disthank you for being on. and professor and contributor for the atlantic magazine, brian

claus thank you as well. and coming up on "morning joe," speaker kevin mccarthy walks back comments about donald trump's presidential campaign after a moment of candor about the federally indicted candidate. and abortion, it's a word that president biden uses but he did last night. we'll tell you what he had to say about the issue. all ahead on "morning joe."

- you like that bone? i got a great price on it. - did you see my tail when that chewy box showed up? - oh, i saw it. - sorry about the vase. - can we just say vase like normal people? - fine. - i always wondered what it would be like to have a tail. - maybe you did one time. and maybe a thousand years from now, i'll be tail-less using that chewy app to get you great prices on treats. - i'm pretty sure it takes more than a thousand years- - vase. - pets aren't just pets. they're more. - vase! - [announcer] save more on what they love with everyday great prices at chewy. (air whooshing) (box thudding)

president biden weighed in on the issue of abortion during a fundraiser in maryland last night. speak to go a crowd of about 100 donors, biden criticized states that have passed laws restricting access to abortion.

according to "the hill," he defended reproductive rights saying quote, i'm a practicing catholic, i'm not big on abortion, but guess what, roe v. wade got it right. and jonathan lemire, while president biden may not dive into the issue, kamala harris has a strong voice on this. >> this is a dynamic the white house has set up. it's in part created because of the president's personal feelings about abortion. he went years without saying the word. he was explicit last night at the fundraiser in maryland, it's something he's not always comfortable talking about but clear that roe v. wade is the law. the white house has made the vice president the central voice on the issue. many around the west wing feel like it's the issue where she's really found her voice, she has been comfortable talking about this. she has been their leading advocate in terms of the call to defend women's health care, to defend reproductive rights, which she's been their fiercest critic of what the supreme court

did a year or so ago. she gave a couple of center piece speeches the last couple of days, and aides tell me that should continue, mika, and willie, as the presidential campaign ramps up and we know that abortion, much like it was in 2022 is going to loom large in the ballot in 2024. we look for the vice president to be out front on this. >> it's going to be the center piece of the campaign, with democrats emphasizing the issue. the first presidential campaign set to take place two months from now. not clear if donald trump will be on the stage. new reporting from nbc news finds the former president is leaning heavily towards skipping that first debate. that's according to interviews with more than a half dozen advisers. one source who has encouraged trump to take the stage said, quote, he's not going it debate unless he's forced to by changing polling. i disagree with it. it is what it is. trump has a 29 point advantage over second place ron desantis in the latest nbc news polling.

trump exploring options for counter polling. trump has not made a final decision but if he does not debate, i doubt he's staying home. so sam stein, the thing from donald trump is if i'm up by 30 points, why bother to debate. the people are with me. i don't have to make my case on the stage. i don't have to elevate ron desantis and give him the chance to come after me. i'll hold a big rally, and probably get more viewers, at least among my base. >> trump is wrong about a lot of stuff. he might be right about this one. there's not up side for him, potentially a lot of downside for stepping on the stage and have four or five people bludgeoning him for an hour half. he did this before, charity for

veterans, that's what he did in advance of the iowa caucuses, he did go on and lost the iowa caucuses in 2016. i don't think it was because he skipped the debate. in this case, he's way further ahead at this current juncture than he was back then, and so there's really very little incentive structure to do that, and this does raise questions about what the rnc does if he were to skip the debate because it would be a violation of the loyalty pledge, but also it could call into question their power and influence in organizing a primary. >> we're watching the rnc and whether they exercise their power and force donald trump to stick to the rules or like most republican organizations bend to him, but donald trump is not going to put himself in a situation where he doesn't have complete control, and a debate stage, that's just not something he's going to put himself out there for if he doesn't have to. let's take a look at the morning papers, the rochester democrat and chronicle has a front page

feature on new york legislation that requires businesses to inform 9/11 survivors that they are eligible for medical coverage and compensation. supporters say people don't know about the state's program. for those who are exposed to toxins during the 2001 terrorist attacks. as of march this year, more than 38,000 civilian survivors and 85,000 first responders had signed up. the 9/11 notice act is now at the governor's desk. willie. in ohio, "the dayton daily news," highlights an increase in e-cigarette sales and a big one. sales jumped by 46% over the past three years. in january of 2020, about 15 million e-cigarettes were sold. that number went up to 23 million by december of last year. the surge is delivered by

non-tobacco flavor products, like menthol, marketed directly at teenagers. >> yeah, thanks a lot for that. and finally, "the south jersey times" leads with a push to provide tutors in all public schools, the expanding access to high tu toring access to meet with students three times a last week. the nation's report card showed a drop in reading and math scores in the wake of the pandemic. and coming up, we'll be joined by a biden administration official, adrienne elrod joins us with a preview of the president's speech today in chicago. where he is expected to discuss his economic policies. plus, as gop white house hopefuls campaign on promises to overall the department of justice, our next guest says the

sharp rhetoric isn't as radical as it sounds. we'll explain why ahead on "morning joe." d on "morning joe." imagine you're doing something you love. rsv could cut it short. ♪ rsv is a contagious virus that usually causes mild symptoms but can cause more severe infections that may lead to hospitalizations... ...in adults 60 and older... ...and adults with certain underlying conditions, like copd, asthma, or congestive heart failure. talk to your doctor and visit cutshortrsv.com. for too long, big oil companies have bought off politicians so they can get away with ripping us off. that's changing now. joe biden passed a plan to jumpstart clean energy production in america. it's creating good jobs that can't be outsourced and will lower energy costs. $1800. that's how much a new report says the inflation reduction act could save just the average american family on energy costs.

[narrator] learn how the inflation reduction act will save you money. first, there's an idea and you do something about it for the first time with godaddy. then before you know it, (it is a life changer...) you make your first sale. small business first. never stopped coming. (we did it!) and you have a partner that always puts you first way. (no way!) start today at godaddy.com. narrator: the man with the troublesome hemorrhoid enters the room. phil: excuse me? hillary: that wasn't me. narrator: said hillary, who's only taken 347 steps today. hillary: i cycled here. narrator: speaking of cycles, mary's period is due to start in three days. mary: how do they know so much about us? narrator: your all sharing health data without realizing it. that's how i know about kevin's rash. who's next? wait... what's that in your hand? no, no, stop!

oh you're no fun. [lock clicks shut] ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

it is the top of the hour, welcome back to "morning joe." it's wednesday, june 28th. jonathan lemire and katty kay are still with us and joining the conversation, we have former u.s. senator now an nbc news and msnbc political analyst, claire mccaskill joining us. also with us, msnbc contributor, mike barnicle is here. let's begin with the stepped up criticism by donald trump of his republican challengers in the 2024 race, and a key ally in congress as well, although he kind of crawled back. ron desantis responded to a question about january 6th. while nikki haley hit the former president for a narrow focus on china. but then there's speaker kevin

mccarthy who seemed to give an honest answer about trump's presidential prospects. >> if this election is about biden's failures and our vision for the future, we are going to win. if it's about relitigating things that happened two, three years ago, we're going to lose. and so i can tell you this -- [ applause ] -- i can tell you this, i can point you to tallahassee, florida, on i believe, january 5th, 2023, we had a transition of power from my first administration to any second because i won reelection in a historic fashion, and at the end of the day, we need to win, and we need to get this done. i wasn't anywhere near washington that day, i have nothing to do with what happened that day. obviously i didn't enjoy seeing

what happened, but we've got to go forward on this stuff. we cannot be looking backwards and be mired in the past. >> president trump was almost singularly focused on our trade relationship with china. he was right about our trade abuses. it was and still is a critical issue. but trump did too little about the rest of the chinese threat. he did not effectively rally our allies against the chinese threat. even the trade deal he signed came up short when china predictably failed to live up to its commitments. he also showed moral weakness in his zeal to befriend president xi, trump congratulated the communist party on its 70th anniversary of conquering china. that sent a wrong message to the world. chinese communism must be

condemned, never congratulated. >> it makes it complicated if he's got all of these trials and all of this stuff overhanging. >> it makes it complicated, also helps him. >> can he win that election? >> can he win that election? he can. is he the strongest to win the election. i don't know that answer. >> that was so good, but then later yesterday in an interview with breitbart news, mccarthy seemed to walk that back, claim ing that trump is stronger today than he was in 2016 so it was going so well, claire mccaskill, your thoughts. >> this is another moment that kevin mccarthy shows how incredibly weak he is. this is a man who had to contort himself into an unrecognizable shape to become speaker of the house. this is someone who elevated the

idiots that liz cheney referred to, like marjorie taylor greene and lauren boebert, i can't even say her name, which is probably a good name. he elevated them to positions of power and respect within his caucus, so this is not surprising that he let slip a truth and then immediately got pounded by the folks at mar-a-lago or bedminster or whatever golf course he's at today that that was unacceptable, and he came back with his tail between his legs, totally dominated by a disgraced, a totally disgraced former president. >> and it's a measure of how little these rivals criticized donald trump when we're counting ron desantis saying simply, i didn't enjoy seeing what happened on january 6th. criticism of donald trump, all of this comes, of course, the reason you're seeing some light criticism is because of all the legal trouble surrounding donald

trump and some perceived weakness, the former presidential rolling out yesterday another excuse after leaked audio tape appeared to show him showing off classified material to people without security clearance. in an interview with fox news digital, the former president professed his innocence and accused the media, even fox itself of conspiring against him. here first is a portion of the leaked tape from august of 2021, so you can remember what he did say followed by trump's odd defense yesterday. >> wait a minute, let's see here. >> oh, my gosh. >> i just found -- isn't that amazing, this totally wins my case, you know, except it is highly confidential, secret. this is secret information. done by the military, given to me. i think we can probably -- right? >> we'll have to see. we'll have to --

>> declassify, see as president, i could declassify it, now i can't. isn't that interest something. >> i had a whole desk full of lots of papers, mostly newspaper articles, copies of magazines, copies of different plans, stories, having to do with many many subjects and what was said was absolutely fine and very perfectly, we did nothing wrong. this is a whole hoax. we had a lot of papers stacked up, in fact, you could hear the rustle of the paper, and nobody said i did anything wrong, except for fake news, which of course is fox too. >> you're not concerned with your own voice on those record ings. >> my voice is fine. >> are there any other recordings we should be concerned of? >> i don't know of any recordings you should be concerned with because i don't do things wrong. i do things right. i'm a legitimate person. >> i'm a legitimate person. >> later in the day, trump

altered his defense again, this is where it starts to get strange. in a conversation with reporters from semafor and abc news, the plans he was referring to despite calling them defense department documents were related to real estate properties and not, in fact, u.s. military plans for a potential attack on iran. trump told the journalist, i would say it was bravado, if you want to know the truth, i was talking and holding up papers and talking about them. i didn't have any documents. did i use the word plans? what i'm referring to is magazines, newspapers, plans of buildings, i had plans of buildings, you know, building plans, i had plans of a golf course. mike barnicle, making it up as he goes along, as we have said already this morning, this is a man who knows he can say anything, and as long as he says it's a hoax and a witch hunt and a product of fake news, his followers will buy the story and his lead over ron desantis will,

in fact, increase. >> both things are true. his lead will increase, his opponents will slowly disappear in the distance. they look like political leading into the clip. he lies about everything. of course everyone is going to believe these were plans fo to build a new pro shop. it is what it is, and we continue to cover it every single day, this parade of lies coming from a former president of the united states, and by the way, he is no right now, i would say, and everyone would say, the odds on choice to be the republican nominee for president of the united states. i mean, his nearest opponent supposedly is ron desantis, the former governor of florida, who was up in new hampshire earlier in week, and talked incessantly, 90% of the time, i'm told, about florida, and not about fentanyl, things like that, local issues,

where are we going, where am i going to take you, part of a campaign, critical to any candidate, but not apparently to ron desantis. he just wants to talk about florida. >> yeah, his whole pitch is that he wants to make the rest of america more like florida. we'll see if the rest of america is more on board with that. we had some republican voices taking on trump a little bit. desantis, that was muted about january 6th, but nikki haley, a little bit on china. chris christie is out there, he's taking on trump. so very few are. time is going to run out at some point. do you sense any momentum here that they will start taking the fight to trump more or are they going to dance around the edges which to this point has made trump's lead grow. >> listen to nikki haley, she takes on the one issue of china, calling it morally wrong for congratulating xi, but clinging

to her script for dear life as if somehow reading it will help her get through these criticisms. chris christie is interesting because his poll numbers have gone from 1% to 5%. he's the only republican in the bottom tier who seems to be enjoying something of a boost in polls and that must be related to his attacks on donald trump because it's the only thing he's going to do. is it ever going to get him to 40%? it seems unlikely. the moment the field is so divided and so unwilling to take on trump, and all the time, even with all of the legal problems that trump is having for the moment, those legal problems are helping trump raise money and appearing to give him consolidation in the polls, let's see what happens as we get into the election, and see how the legal cases play out with swing voters in atlanta, in phoenix, in wisconsin, but for the moment, he seems to be benefitting from the rest of the field not attacking him and the legal problems which are

allowing him to paint himself as a victim. >> so when it comes to the republican race for the presidency, several of the contenders are talking tough about their plans to overhaul the department of justice. >> we're going to clean house across all the senior levels of the department of justice and the fbi. >> and, you know, with me, you know, you get a new fbi director on day one. that will happen. >> as president of the united states, i would purge all of the injustices and impurities in our system. >> joining us now, senior writer "the dispatch," david drucker with more reporting on this. if you could tell us about their plans to overhaul the doj. in fact, let me read a part of your piece. david has this piece entitled "gop contenders overhype plans to overhaul the doj," most presidential contenders are

promising big changes at the department of justice if they win the white house. clean house, some say, completely overhaul say others, their plans may sound radical and unprecedented. they're not. every new president effectively fires senior personnel at the department of justice and their deputies, numbering in the hundreds upon taking office. i think, david, though, the concern here, i'll stop right there, is that donald trump sort of had a different approach to this. and considered people in the department of justice and, for example, his attorney general, he assumed that they were sort of his attorneys. >> right, so if you look at how donald trump tried to run the justice department, it's understandable why some people are concerned about what he might do in a second term. i think what we saw at doj in the first term, though, shows you the limits of how much a president is able to meddle because of the law, because of regulations of the doj. i think the point that i wanted

to emphasize, mika, was not the presidents and their new attorneys general do not have and deputies and u.s. attorneys do not have prosecutorial discretion and that can change with every new president. they can bring cases and choose not to bring other cases, but just to point out that when -- and it was curious to me because of all the concern that republican voters have about how trump is being treated by the department of justice, when you hear these candidates talk about sweeping everybody out, cleaning house, bringing in a whole new group that's going to do things differently, this whole new group may do things differently. number one they're going to be constrained by the law, number two, this goes on every time we have a changing of the guard, at least from a partisan perspective. a republican president comes in, they appoint a whole new fleet of u.s. attorneys, a whole new fleet of senior and middle management leaders at the department of justice, the attorney general, all of the deputies, when a democratic president comes in, they do the

same thing, and this is just a part of what happens when when we have a change in government. the hype doesn't really match reality in that may make changes, but they're going to be changes that the american people may not like the prosecutorial decisions, the policy decisions, but they're not going to have any issues with these changes from a constitutional perspective, and that's in large part because the career attorneys at doj are protected by civil service law, and unless you get congress to approve changes in civil service law, it's very hard to as one of the contenders has said, it's very hard to gut the bureaucracy at the department of justice because of how our laws are set up. >> yeah, david, also, talk about the reality that many of the jobs that do turn over with each administration are, in fact,

confirmed by the senate. so that, for example, right now, there are many jurisdictions that do not have u.s. attorneys because the republicans are refusing to confirm them. my state is a good example. we have no u.s. attorneys in missouri right now. they're all acting and not permanent replacements because the senators in missouri are refusing to cooperate. speak to that and the problems that go with that, but also i want to make sure you delineate what civil service protections fbi agents have. because really what a lot of these candidates are talking about is trying to rebuild or redo or start over with the fbi. talk about the problems associated with the fbi in particular. >> well, let's take two of those issues, one at a time, first of all, u.s. attorneys are of course federal prosecutors. occasionally there are holdovers. the biden administration under

attorney general merrick garland chose to leave david weiss, the attorney for delaware in place because he's in the middle of handling the hunter biden investigation and they didn't want to have any sense of impropriety by bringing in something new and taking out somebody appointed by a republican president because of when the investigation started during the trump administration. some of these attorneys are left in place. by and large, federal prosecutors are changed out, and when you have a senate so evenly divided it can be hard to get senate confirmation for many positions. in the old days, when it took 60 votes, things could be difficult no matter what. it only takes 51 votes for executive branch employees. it can be difficult when democrats have a 51 vote majority last cycle or 50 now.

even though fbi directors have ten-year terms, the president can fire the fbi director and replace them. it's a senate confirmed position. this can have an impact on a lot of the senior leadership and middle management at the fbi. but anybody that is career is going to have the same civil service protections. and again, it's not that laws can't change. it's not that you're going to find 60 votes in the senate, even if republicans control the house, even if republicans control the senate to change civil service law in that manner. there are things, senator, you can do. you can move civil service employees, and i report this in "the dispatch," you can move them to new positions and rubber room them, count widgets is for

the rest of your career here. there's things you can do, but wholesale gutting, when i talk to veterans of the department of justic democrats and republicans, they just said it's not going to happen. what they said to focus on is prosecutorial discretion and policies that inform that that a new president brings in. >> senior writer for the dispatc david drucker, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. so 40 years after regan omics, coining the term bidenomics, about building upwards from the middle and lower classes, instead of expecting money to trickle down from the country's wealthiest people. part of the plan includes the $53 billion chips and science act, which provides incentives for domestic chip manufacturing. the president is expected to talk about this in a big way in his speech today in chicago.

here with a preview, the director of external and government affairs for the u.s. department of commerce chips for america program, adrienne elrod. what can we expect to hear from president biden today? >> well, you know, mika, anita dunn, senior white house adviser was on your show earlier this week talking about the fact that they are coining this as bidenomics, investing in the middle class. under president biden's leadership we have seen 13 million jobs created, we have seen record unemployment rates that have remained consistent, so i think he's going to be high lying -- highlighting that, and talking about the four major economic bills that passed under president biden's leadership, including the chips and science act, how those bills are going to translate to improving the lives of the american people. a lot of those bills are going to create and are creating

manufacturing jobs. and in particular, mika, i'm focused on the chips and science act, and chips implementation, if president biden has taken office. we have seen over $500 billion in private sector investment in the united states, $200 billion of that, mika, is invested in chips and science companies and semiconductor companies. i think he's going to be talking about how his legislative accomplishments are translating to improving the lives of the american people. >> it's been a familiar refrain for the white house. i feel like they're not getting public credit for the work they have done on the economy. in fact, polls suggest that voters trust republicans and even donald trump more on the economy than they do president biden at least to this point. so this is, you know, one way to get credit. you put your name on it. talk to us a little bit, there's risk attached to that, too. we're still a year and a half from the election. there are certainly encouraging signs in the economy right now. there's always the possibility, some analysts say a recession is still possible. maybe it's next year sometime, but with americans, inflation

still higher than people would like. americans still feel uneasy about the economy, is there a chance the president may end up getting not the credit he looks, but rather the blame? absolutely not. again, you have to go out and sell your policies, and i think that's where the white house is being really smart. of course we at the commerce department, secretary raimondo, surrogates are fanning out to sell the policies. look, to your point, i think sometimes when the american people are watching the news or tuning in to watch what's happening at the national level and what's getting passed in congress, they're not always understanding how that's translating to their lives. when the administration is sending out surrogates, not just the president, but the vice president and high level administration, to the heartland, to the coast, now they have announced 20 states they are doing in this investing america tour, and they're actually taking this message to the american people.

they're getting those strong local headlines making sure that people across the country understand that president biden and his leadership is responsible for these major policies that are going to impact their lives. and they're also explaining how these policies translate to the lives of american people. it's an incredibly smart policy. this administration has so much to brag on in terms of how their policies are improving the economy, and again, lemire, i'm looking at some of the unemployment rates in the key states where the semiconductor industry is investing, some of the unemployment rates are 2.9%, so there's a lot to talk about, and now the administration is going to go out and sell it. >> adrienne, as you just pointed out, unemployment is at lows in many places, bridges are being

repaired, roads being paved, the economy, outwardly, as you pass by it on a daily basis in your car, looking at stores coming back. i guess today the president is going to be in chicago talking about all of this, simple question, as usual for me, what took you so long to start boasting about this? >> i think the president has been boasting about this, to your point, mike, you've got to go out there and sell this to the american people. you have to go into the communities and sell this. the administration has done an investing in america tour. this is a second one. i think this is something you're going to see throughout the administration going forward that we're going to have surrogates out there talking about this. you know, into these local communities, it's critically important, and, mike, one of the great things i want to touch on on the chips act and implementation. one of the things we're seeing not just with chips but the inflation reduction act with infrastructure jobs being created, these are jobs that

don't require a four-year college degree. a lot of jobs you can get with the technical training from high school, with an apprenticeship and that's a huge revolution compared to where we were, you know, five, six years ago, even a couple of years ago. we are looking at really reimagining what america's industrial policy looks like, and you're going to see, i think, the administration talking a lot more about this. >> we'll be watching president biden today. adrienne elrod, thank you very much. adrienne is director of external and government affairs for the u.s. department of commerce's c.h.i.p.s program. thank you, adrienne, and still ahead on "morning joe," more signs pointing to the dangers of social media. we're digging into a troubling new reporting just released by the antidefamation league showing a dramatic rise in online harassment. plus, the latest in the aftermath of the short-lived rebellion in russia over the weekend, including new u.s. sanctions targeting the wagner mercenary group. plus, secretary of state,

antony blinken, will be joining the conversation to talk about all of that. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. hat. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

i brought in ensure max protein with 30g of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that. -everyone: woo hoo! ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. enter the nourishing moments giveaway for a chance to win $10,000.

i will be a travel influencer... hey, i thought you were on vacation? it's too expensive. use priceline, they've got deals no one else has. what about work? i got you. looking great you guys! ♪ go to your happy price ♪ ♪ priceline ♪

a new reporting released just this morning reveals online hate is reaching record highs, the antidefamation league is out with the annual online hate and harassment report revealing rates of harassment have increased dramatically over the past year. 51%, according to the new survey of teens reported some form of online harassment. that's up from just 36% in 2022. and 33% of all adults experienced online abuse. that is up 10 points from just a year ago. in fact, rates of harassment have increased by every measure and every demographic in the past 12 months. joining us now, the vice president of technology and society of the antidefamation

league, yail eisenstadt, teenagers, jewish people, black people, lgbtq, transgender people, all experiencing an increase, and in some cases a dramatic increase in online harassment. you can take us through the numbers but also what's at the root of this? why is it accelerating so quickly? >> sure you hit the key numbers already, so just to emphasize, this is a dramatic increase over previous years, highest number we have seen since we started this survey for adults, teens have dramatically increased how much hate and abuse they're seeing online, and we really also looked at transgender respondents this year just due to how much antitransgender legislation and rhetoric is existing as well in the world. the root of this, it's two

things, listen, it's society, it's what's happening. it's hate in the world, but it's also social media platforms are not taking the necessary steps to protect the people who use their services every day. and that's just been made abundantly clear, not only in the numbers we're seeing, but even if you look what's happening in these companies, laying off their trust and safety people, record layoffs over the last year matched with record rises in online hate and harassment. >> we should tell our viewers, you are abundantly qualified to analyze this from that point of view, the social media companies, because you looked at facebook for a long time, and in fact, left because of some of the red flags you threw up about what was happening at facebook. why is it so difficult internally, instagram, facebook, meta, twitter, all of them to monitor and squash the most aggressive online hate, the kind you're describing in this survey? >> so i would argue it's not so difficult. it's a question of priorities.

so you're right, when i worked at facebook, i was there actually looking at elections integrity, which involved a lot of political inflammatory rhetoric, including hate speech and it was a question of what the company decided to prioritize, and to be very clear, we're talking about asking companies to just enforce their own rules. they have rules against hate speech, and it's just more and more becoming clear that they do not prioritize users and whether it's because it's not profitable to do, so whether it's because they would rather sweep it under the rug, or whether it's because there's no actual pressure from government or others to do anything about this, all of those things are contributing to what's happening. >> so let's talk about twitter in particular for a moment, where the new regime there, and it's certainly just anecdotally, you could just tell, the voices are different on twitter than they were before elon musk took over. the numbers back it up. is there any recommendations in

particular for that site, which this weekend was a reminder of how people, when there's news out there, people turn to it t the russia incident, and yet we're seeing -- you're greeted with venom. what can be done there? >> with twitter, it's particularly complicated because not only has ownership changed and the rules have changed and the vast majority of employees who used to work at twitter specifically in trust and safety whose role it was to protect users and enforce antihate policies, most of them have been -- yes, numbers rose on twitter as well, and what we would like to see is be explicit about what the antihate policies are and how they're going to enforce it. there's no true incentive for this company to do that because there's no actual transparency requirements at all from the federal government, so i bring that up because it's not a question of saying government

should say what is or is not online. but at the very least, we should demand that there's transparent reporting from these companies, showing us, did you enforce your policies that you have told users are what you are going to protect us against when we use your platforms. >> for whatever reason, there hasn't been that will in congress to push hard in this. in fairness, there are senators on both sides actually trying to get legislation through to do things yael is talking about but haven't made it very far. >> congress has been particularly bad at regulating tech. partially that is because tech has moved so quickly, it's hard to keep up with it. partially because they don't have the expertise in government that is necessary to actually do a good job regulating. but let's talk a minute about the legislation. i know there's a piece of legislation that would limit the ability to use algorithms on

teens and younger children, in order to remove them from the dangerous cycle of ugly that is so profitable in these social media companies. can you speak about that legislation, and how well are the various groups that care about this and parents that care about this, how well are they doing at lobbying the members of congress to really put pressure on them? >> so when it comes to lobbying, i'll start there and work backwards, there is no way to be as resourced as the big tech lobby itself. i want to be very clear. it's astronomical numbers for the tech lobby. that said, i do think that we need to have parents and everyone who cares about these issues make sure that they make it a priority when they're talking to their lawmakers. i mean, i want to really really put this in context. you know, at the antidefamation league, we have been tracking anti-semitic incidents for over four decades, and this past year

was highest rate we have seen since we've been monitoring those numbers. so this is not just happening in a vacuum. we know that online hate, whether it be targeted at teenagers, adults, jewish people, muslims, lgbtq plus people, all of whom we studied in this particular report, that starts us down a dangerous path to real world violence. you only have to look at pittsburgh, buffalo, club q, all of those mass shooters were exposed to this kind of hate and conspiracy theories online. i would just hope that more people in society would pressure their lawmakers to at the very least figure out how do we put some sort of guardrails so the companies claim they're protecting us actually do. >> this all sounds dark and depressing and some people throw up their hands and say the social media genie is out of the bottle, there's nothing we can do, and i think what they should

focus on and you make it clear in the report, there are solutions, maybe not to solve it completely, but we don't have to accept that our teenage daughters are depressed and have bad self-image because of social media, we don't have to accept that all the groups you laid out are going to be haassed because that's the way it is. there are solutions, and you lay it out in your report. people feel helpless, it's such this big problem. i'll give you granular examples of things that can be done. for years we have been recommending basic ways to design your platforms to actually support targets of abuse. let people report the abuse. actually respond to the reports. the companies will tell you they're too big, they're too hard, again, it's just not their priority. if people don't know what doxxing is, when someone putting your personal information online to try to incite harm against you. we have been working across the country, with states to pass

antidoxxing legislation. we would love to see the federal government step up and create anti doxxing legislation as a tool to protect people. there are different things we can do that don't just rely on the platforms themselves, doing things out of their own goodwill. >> this is a big issue. we appreciate your focus on it in this new report. vice president of technology and society at the antidefamation league, yael eisenstat, we appreciate it. >> thank you. the big issues airlines are facing with a big holiday weekend and airports getting backed up out there. "morning joe" coming right back. backed up out there. "morning joe" coming right back. for copd, ask your doctor about breztri.

breztri gives you better breathing, symptom improvement, and helps prevent flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vison changes, or eye pain occur. if you have copd ask your doctor about breztri. he snores like an angry rhino. you've never heard an angry rhino. vison changes, or eye pain occur. baby i hear one every night... every night. okay. i'll work on that. the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is now only $899. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. shop now only at sleep number. ♪ with wet amd, sometimes i worry my world is getting smaller because of my sight. but now, i can open up my world with vabysmo. vabysmo is the first fda-approved treatment for people with wet amd that improves vision

and delivers a chance for up to 4 months between treatments. which means doing more of what i love. ♪ vabysmo is the only treatment designed to block 2 causes of wet amd. vabysmo is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection or active swelling in or around your eye, or are allergic to it or any of its ingredients. treatments like vabysmo can cause eye infection or retinal detachment. vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. although uncommon, there is a potential risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. open up your world! a chance for up to 4 months between treatments with vabysmo. ask your doctor. hey, dad. i got an a on my book report. -and i scored a goal on ashley. -that's cool. and i went for a walk in the woods and i didn't get a single flea or tick on me. you are just the best. it's probably because of that flea and tick medicine you've been ordering from chewy. we are very proud of you. you never stop surprising us, bailey. right? i'm great. you are great. i wonder if bailey's ever done a book report.

be nice to your sister. what flea bit him? pets aren't just pets. they're more. this flea and tick season, trust america's #1 pet pharmacy. chewy.

♪♪ 43 past the hour. we are getting close to the holiday weekend. in fact, just days ahead of the

july 4th weekend, experts are warning of possible airline delays and even cancellations due to severe weather. nbc news correspondent tom costello has more. >> reporter: wednesday morning in the nation's airports. >> we have been here for a day and a half. >> a less than ideal lead up to what's expected to be the busiest time to travel this summer. >> this entire thing is the united line. >> reporter: along the east coast, long lines at some of the biggest hubs where passengers facing thousands of delays and cancellations. >> we have been here for like ten hours. >> reporter: among the most impacted, new york's three airports, jfk, laguardia, and newark. >> this is inhumane. it's actually passenger abuse, is what it is. >> reporter: high school classmates, cheryl giamo, and joe tanner spent the weekend in long island at their 40th reunion. they opted for a 26 hour train ride back to florida after their sunday flight home was cancelled. >> it turned out to be an

adventure. >> reporter: an air traffic control shortage is partly to blame. the ceo of united which has its own staffing issues says the faa failed us this weekend. united requested the faa have a ground stop so the airline could catch its breath. the faa is facing 2,500 controllers retiring this year and last and a time line of up to three years to train and certify new controllers. >> we appreciate you flying with us. appreciate your patient. >> reporter: volatile summer weather is always the wild card and thunderstorms could be a possibility heading into the long holiday weekend where aaa says we could see nearly 51 million people on the country's skyways and highways. >> what people can expect on the roads, in the air, at the gas station, wherever they are is a lot of company. we have never had a forecast like this one. >> reporter: for the vast majority who will travel by car, good news at the pump, gas

prices are a dollar cheaper compared to last year. and hopper says domestic round trip air fares are also down. >> we'll be watching holiday travel, coming up, our next guest argues that the short lived revolt in russia by the leader of a mercenary group is a big win for ukraine. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe." ine. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪

i need it cool at night. you trying to ice me out of the bed? voltaren. the joy of movement. baby, only on game nights. you know you are retired right? am i? ya!

the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is now only $899. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. shop now only at sleep number. hey bud. wow. what's all this? hawaii was too expensive so i brought it here. you know with priceline you could actually take that trip for less than all this. i made a horrible mistake. ♪ go to your happy price ♪ ♪ priceline ♪ i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ go to your happy price ♪ ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks. skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor for crohn's that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. the majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms,

had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. we moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far. (chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch.

wagner group necessitates that putin relies wholly on the russian military.

outsourcing dirty wars to mercenaries is a dirty practice as war itself, and it increases long-term political risks. prigozhin extensively turned against putin because of the insufficient support of the russian military, and the strained ukrainians placed -- so the last 18 months has not gone as planned. how does this change the trajectory of the war, if you believe it does, going from here? >> i think we are all trying to figure out how it changes the

trajectory of the war and what is important to keep in mind is fundamentally this disadvantaged russia. the wagner group, many of their territory gains were built on the effectiveness of the wagner group, and this shows an internal weakness with regard to putin's hold over power inside of russia. this is fundamentally net positive for ukraine. the question now becomes how does ukraine rev leverage this on the battlefield. >> specifically in the downer offensive taking place, our understanding is the russians fixed some of the military problems they had early on and their defensive positions are pretty good now. what impact in ukraine's current

and ongoing offensive could specifically this debacle over the wagner group make? >> the capability has been taken away from the russian military, and one of the things the russians have been able to do effectively is to use these 25,000 wagner group fighters is to leverage them when using other con scripts out. now that we have this division within wagner, the russians have effectively lost that capability, and that's important to keep in mind. what is fundamentally a point to keep in mind, and this is additional to what is going on with the wagner group, and war is fundamentally politics. i think what we have just seen

is an important reminder that often times we think we are watching a war, and we keep to keep in mind we are watching a soap opera as well, and the outcome in ukraine is very much going to be determined on the internal mass nations. >> on that point, to this point, putin's grip on power has remained rather tight, and it was challenged this weekend and he's still in the kremlin, and the idea of politics, could there be a moment where something like this, and if ukraine was to take the fight to over the borders in russia, and that could change putin's point, and to this point they have not?

>> one of the things putin relied on is mercenary groups like wagner and the reason is because it out sources the war and pulls the war away from the populists so they are anesthetized to the costs, and now he will be more reliant on drawing from the population and the troops and it makes it more difficult for putin is prosecute the war, and so it's ultimately politics. >> i am curious about wagner troops. we are talking about 25,000 highly trained, and russia's military is very bad at

logistics and not as good at training like we thought we were, and do you think the 25,000 will come back and fight for russia, or are they out of the question now? >> what we have seen is the troops with wagner have been offered a variety of options. some have been told to go home, particularly the ones that participated in the coup, and others in the front have been offered contracts to be absorbed into the russian military, and there's a distinct capability they brought to be table, and the u.s. military is called a force multiplier and we have relied on groups like blackwater and others to outsource parts of a war that we don't want our

military to do. putin no longer has that capability, so even if the 25,000 troops are distributed through the russian military they will not be as effective as when they were altogether. >> contributing writer at the atlantic, thousand for being on the show this morning. and then cheney's blunt assessment with what is wrong with american politics today. and also the audio recording that appears to discuss trump discussing classified materials, we will show how he's spinning it. and antony blinken is our guest this morning. we have a lot to discuss with him. "morning joe" is coming right back. ng joe" is coming right back

are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup, find your new favorite bra today at knix.com ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) constant contact's advanced automation lets you send the right message at the right time,

every time. ( ♪♪ ) constant contact. helping the small stand tall. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job, you immediately get your shortlist of quality candidates, whose resumes on indeed match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. i brought in ensure max protein with 30g of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that. -everyone: woo hoo! ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. enter the nourishing moments giveaway for a chance to win $10,000.

i think that the country

right now faces hugely challenging and fundamentally important issues, and what we've done in our politics is create a situation where we're electing idiots. [ applause ] >> and so i don't look at it through the lens of, like, is this what i should do or shouldn't do, but i look at the lens of how do we elect serious people. i think electing serious people can't be partisan. >> former congresswoman liz cheney with a frank assessment on the state of american politics. i wonder who she is actually talking about? i think we know. perhaps leading republicans faced with charges of mishandling nuclear secrets, and

perhaps it's donald trump and others. there are concerns more documents were stashed at trump's new jersey golf course. and then going through the monumental decision from the supreme court, and then secretary of state, antony blinken will be on the show today. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." with us, we have the host of way too early, jonathan lemire, and catty kay, and white house editor for politico, sam stein. joe is on assignment but willie and i are here. donald trump is rolling out yet another excuse for that leaked

audiotape that appeared to him showing off, and in an interview yesterday the former president accused the media even fox of conspiring against him. he's a portion of the leaked tape followed by trump's defense yesterday. >> let's see, here. isn't that amazing. this totally wins my case, you know, except it's highly confidential and secret. this is secret information, and it was from the military given to me. i think we can probably -- right? >> we'll have to see. >> declassify it.

>> i had a whole deskful of papers, copies of magazine articles and newspaper magazines and what was said was fine and very perfectly -- we did nothing wrong. this is a whole hoax. we had a lot of papers stacked up. in fact, you could hear the rustle of the paper. >> the former president claimed the plans he was referring to on the leaked tape were related to his real estate properties, not u.s. military plans for a potential attack on iran. he told the journalist, i would say it's bravado if you want to know the truth. i was talking and i was just holding up the papers and talking about them, but i had no

document, i didn't have no documents, and did i use the words plans, i had plans of buildings, you know, plans, i had plans -- i'm sorry. willie, he had me at you could hear the rustle of the papers of the iran plans. >> he has such contempt of his voters and maybe assumes he -- his voters have not heard the tape, and in one of his interviews yesterday, he had a self affirmation telling himself that he's a legitimate person. let's listen. >> you are not concerned with your own voice on those

recordings? >> my voice was fine. i didn't see the recordings. >> are there any other recordings we should be concerned with? >> i am a legitimate person, i don't do things wrong, i do things right. >> i don't do things wrong, i do things right. i am a legitimate person. >> and the impunity of his supporters in the last several years, i could just say these plans for golf course despite what is on the tape, and they'll buy it. >> it's nonsensical and it shows a lack of respect for the people who have followed him this far,

and he feels like he can say anything and they will believe it. >> it's true. >> a lot of people do, and a lot of republicans, elected officials and important figures will follow him, too. and whether they actually believe it or not, they will profess they do in order to not anger him. he has lived a political life of no consequence, and he lost an election but he said he didn't, and the people believe that, too. now there will be consequences he can't just talk away. >> catty kay, it's a case in john's point where he dared step out and in a sideways way criticized donald trump's chances of wing the 2024 election, and then called trump to apologize. no matter if he's telling the

truth, which is a rare occasion, or that it's golf plans, and the people around him protect him. >> yeah, there's nobody's shoes i would want to be in less than mccarthy's shoes right now, and all the members want to show they are loyal to trump and having to tamp down the revolts in his party at the moment. i was struck like john was, and he was thinking about building plans, they were building plans and he's thinking in real time what is my latest defense going to be. you watch that fox news interview and we have the transcript, but it's low energy, to coin a phrase from mr. trump himself. he is not fighting there, and he

doesn't have his bombastic i'm absolutely right -- if you read the body language around that interview, that seemed to me it was somebody aware of the problems and was scrambling around with excuses. >> i guess he is counting on enough people buying his version of the story that he was just wrestling around with golf plans. we are learning new previously unreported details about special counsel jack smith's investigation into the handling of nuclear secrets after leaving the white house. prosecutors working for smith have issued one subpoena for surveillance footage from trump's bedminster golf club. that's where the conversation on the tape took place. that came sometime after the government's request of footage from mar-a-lago, and it's not clear why prosecutors wanted to

obtain it. "the times" also reporting that prosecutors fought a pitched battle late last year on how best to search the new jersey property, specifically investigators discussed executing a search warrant at bedminster last fall, and one of those people told the times the justice department did not have probable cause to obtain a warrant from a judge. let's bring in congressional investigator for "the posts," and she has information of how prosecutors are zeroing in on the new jersey golf club and adding details on why the fbi has not searched bedminster. >> well, my colleagues and i found this piece of evidence that we now have all heard this week of trump brandishing documents at his bedminster, new

jersey property, it came early in the game ahead of the 49-page document that jack smith and his team unveiled last month but was a key and critical piece of evidence that expedited and spurred the charges against former president donald trump as former law enforcement officials and current law enforcement officials told us yesterday that there's no powerful piece of evidence there, and that being said "the times" reported there was not enough evidence or probable cause or in terms of the sort of public perception of it, political cover to execute a search warrant at bedminster, and at that point the trump lawyers adjusted their posture and were trying to comply with the court's order to make sure

they attested in some way they fully complied with the may '22 subpoena asking for trump to be responsive to a request for returning all classified materials in his possession. but even before the august raid of mar-a-lago, the legally executed search warrant had occurred prosecutors already knew trump was taking these boxes back and forth, and there was evidence they collected about his evidence and they concluded the bulk of the material was at mar-a-lago. >> it's sam stein here. what would jack smith do with a new jersey setting? we all know the judge is appointed by trump and usually

in favor of trump's legal team, and could the special counsel go to new jersey and try to relitigate the cases? how would that work functionally? do they have the chance to do that if they have one court going on in the palm beach area? >> yes, sam, this is certainly a question that has been in the bloodstream that a lot of trump officials, quite frankly, have been hypothesizing about. if things were to go south in florida, the charges could be brought in new jersey under this idea that the venue that a place where the crimes were in part committed was in new jersey, and that being said, as we have seen all along the special counsel and the team in its entirety has been extremely strategic. there was a lot of decision making and deliberating about where to bring charges to begin

with, even with the possibility that aileen cannon would be overseeing the trial. the calculation that was made is they would be most successful in florida bringing the charges there at the end of the day despite it being potentially a positive ground for donald trump. again, this is somebody who i don't think would have brought the charges and the idea even of trump coming up with the excuses that he didn't have a classified document, you have to think that jack smith already has potential witnesses lined up to happen in court to say exactly what they saw at this meeting. coming up the supreme court struck down a legal theory that would have given state legislators widespread power to determine election rules. we'll talk about the impact of that important decision. plus, secretary of state, antony blinken, joins the conversation on the heels of the

short-lived rebellion in russia. that's all ahead on "morning joe." permission to dig in? granted. breyers carbsmart is so rich, so creamy, it tastes totally off-limits. but with only 4 grams of net carbs in every delicious serving, you've got the green light. better starts with breyers. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) ( ♪♪ )

( ♪♪ ) -awww. -awww. -awww. -nope. ( ♪♪ ) constant contact delivers the marketing tools your small business needs to keep up, excel, and grow. constant contact. helping the small stand tall. from prom dresses to workouts constant contact. and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. i brought in ensure max protein with 30g of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that. -everyone: woo hoo!

ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. enter the nourishing moments giveaway for a chance to win $10,000. sleepovers just aren't what they used to be. giveaway for a chance to win a house full of screens? basically no hiccups? you guys have no idea how good you've got it. how old are you? like, 80? back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. we don't get scared. oh, really? mom can see your search history.

that's what i thought. introducing the next generation 10g network. only from xfinity. so, you've got the power of xfinity at home. now take it outside with xfinity mobile. like speed? it's the fastest mobile service around. with the best price for two lines of unlimited. only $30 bucks a line per month. that's hundreds in savings a year when you wave bye to the other guys. save hundreds a year on your wireless bill over t-mobile, at&t and verizon. and right now, get up to $1000 off select samsung phones. switch today. he snores like an angry rhino. you've never heard an angry rhino. baby i hear one every night... every night.

okay. i'll work on that. the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is now only $899. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. shop now only at sleep number. a major ruling yesterday from the supreme court which made it more difficult for the big lie to repeat itself in 2024, the case moore versus harper based out of north carolina centered on a radical theory known as the independent state legislature theory. it would have given state legislators virtually unchecked power over federal elections based on an extreme interpretation of the constitution's elections clause. the supreme court rejected that anti-democratic theory with chief justice john roberts and justices brett kavanaugh and amy coney barrett signing with the liberals. in his opinion, the chief

justice writes, the elections clause does not insulate state legislators from the ordinary exercise of state judicial review, adding the framers recognized. a legal adviser to donald trump embraced the fringe theory as a way to overturn the 2020 election, arguing mike pence had the power, to refuse to certify the results. the ruling would prevent legislators from addressing illegality and fraud in a timely manner. joining us to delve deeper into the ruling, josh gerstein.

what was at stake? >> this is significant on two different fronts. one, the one you just mentioned involving the 2024 presidential race and the possibility that you could have seen republicans specifically former president trump put forward an effort to put state legislators on steroids so they could be the arbitrator of who won the election in their state and that could have led to the post election chaos, and that was the plan the trump team started to run in 2020 and got cut off at the pass, and the supreme court makes it seem like that's a lot less likely. and the second part is the control of the u.s. house of representatives and this decision seemed to shift the ground in favor of democrats in the overall way in which the

redistricting is held to set up the districts. >> to put it a different way, josh, can you explain what could have been if this went -- if the outcome was different? >> well, if the outcome was different, you could have seen a situation where state legislators were emboldened where some of the legal theories you were discussing before coming from john eastman who is facing a disbarment proceeding, could have seemed much more credible in 2024, and the notion that each state should be in a position through its legislature of where the votes could go, and it could throw the whole election into chaos. i think the supreme court stepped away from that possibility with the 6-3 ruling. >> a lot of people were holding

their breath waiting for this announcement because of what you just laid out in the democracy, and any surprises when you talk to people in the terms of the 6-3 vote, and maybe it was cavanaugh or amy coney barrett that tipped the balance here? >> it was surprising to see cavanaugh and barrett to vote with roberts, and that's still a 6-3 majority. that wasn't the core issue in the case. it was more around the issue of redistricting and the power of state legislators in other federal elections, and it undercuts the case that some

conservative legal activist were trying to go back to a more old-fashioned approach where there didn't even need to be elections and the electors in each state could pick the candidate there. >> and yesterday he acknowledged what he tried to do in 2020 murkier, and that was his word, and he was the one that pushed pence to deny the election results. should americans feel more confident their vote will be heard this time around? >> yeah, that's right, jonathan. it seems to put the nail in the coffin. it's not quite as murky as mr. eastman was suggesting, but it's a benefit in the disbarment or

legal discipline that he's facing, because, remember, they got three supreme court justices to say this was a credible theory, and there were three people that dissented from the roberts decision. >> although those are the particularly conservative members of the supreme court. can i look at states where there's republican legislators, swing states, arizona, georgia, north carolina and wisconsin, and what is specifically in the light of 2020 and what this would mean for those states? >> well, i mean, you remember you had rudy giuliani going across the country appearing in front of conservative state legislators, gop-controlled state legislators making the case for election fraud, and if this ruling had gone the other

way you would have seen the legislators basically become an electoral tribunal of some sort, and so in that sense if you are looking for the trump operation to sort of rerun that playbook in 2024, it makes this particular play not look that enticing or likely to be successful. coming up, actor in primetime, rupert friend, joins us to discuss this role in the new film "astroid city." "morning joe" is back in a moment. ductive writes

saying, quote, i am a practicing catholic and i am not big on abortion, but guess what? roe v. wade got it ride. while president biden may not often dive into the issue, kamala harris, the vice president has a very strong voice on this. >> this is the dynamic the white house set up and it's because of the president's personal feeling about abortion, and he went years without saying the word and he was explicit last night that it was not something he was always comfortable with but roe v. wade was the law. many around the west wing feel like it's the voice where harris has found her voice and she's been comfortable talking about

this and has been their leading advocate to defend women's health care and reproductive rights. when she gave a couple centerpiece speeches in the last couple of days around the dobbs anniversary, and that should continue, mika and willie, as the presidential campaign ramps up. we know abortion will loom charge in 2024, and look for the vice president to be out front on that. >> it's going to be a centerpiece of the campaign. the first presidential primary in that debate set to take less than two months from now, and it's not clear if donald trump will be on that stage, and there's news that trump is considering skipping that debate, and he said he's not going to debate unless he is

forced to by polling. trump has a 29-point advantage over second place ron desantis in the latest polling, and trump exploring options for counter programming during the first debate according to people in his deliberations, maybe a big rally. if he does not debate i doubt he's staying home. so the thinking from donald trump is, if i am up by 30 points, why bother to debate, the people are with me and i don't have to elevate ron desantis and get people to come after me, and i will just hold a rally and get more viewers, at least among my base. >> trump may be wrong about a lot, but he's write about this one, and having more or less six or seven people just bludgeoning him for an hour and a half. he did this before, if i recall

kraebgtly -- >> yeah. >> holding an event and holding a charity for veterans and it's questionable whether all the money got there, and he lost the iowa caucuses in 2016, and i don't think it's because he skipped the debate. he's way ahead at this juncture than he was back then. this does raise questions about what the rnc does if he was to skip the debate, because it's a violation of the loyalty pledge. >> this is going to be interesting, watching the rnc and whether they force donald trump to stick to the rules, or like most republican organizations, bend to him. donald trump will not put himself in a situation where he

doesn't have complete control and a debate stage is not something he will put himself out there for if he doesn't have to. let's look at the papers. a front page feature on new york legislation that requires businesses to inform 9/11 survivors they are eligible for medical care and compensation. many don't know about the affects of the toxins in the terrorists attacks. more than 38,000 civilian survivors and 85,000 first responders had signed up, and the 9/11 notice act is now at the governor's desk. willie? >> in "the daily," in january of 2020, about 15 million e-cigarettes were sold and went

up to nearly 23 million by the end of last year. the cdc reports the surge is driven by nontobacco flavored products, and it's marketed at teenagers. >> thanks for that. then providing tutors in all public schools, and it would allow school districts to pay for tutors, and last week there was a drop in reading and math scores among 13-year-olds in the wake of the pandemic. straight ahead, secretary of state, antony blinken, is standing by and joins our conversation next on "morning joe." "morning joe. somedays, i cover up because of my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now i feel free to bare my skin, thanks to skyrizi. ♪(uplifting music)♪

♪nothing is everything♪ i'm celebrating my clearer skin... my way. with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin, even at 5 years. and skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to clearer skin with skyrizi - this is my moment. there's nothing on my skin and that means everything! ♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time. ask your doctor about skyrizi, the #1 dermatologist-prescribed biologic in psoriasis. learn how abbvie could help you save. why do dermatologists choose dove? the dove beauty bar, is gentle. it not only cleans, it hydrates my skin. as a dermatologist, i want what's best for our skin.

with 1/4 moisturizing cream, dove is the #1 bar dermatologists use at home. the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com he snores like an angry rhino. you've never heard an angry rhino. with a partner that always puts you first. baby i hear one every night... every night. okay. i'll work on that. the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is now only $899. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. shop now only at sleep number. this is your summer to smile.

to raise your glass and reconnect. to reel in the fun and serve up great times. to help you get ready your aspen dental team is celebrating 25 years of affordable care with an epic summer of smiles event. right now, new patients without insurance get a free full exam and x-rays. plus, everyone can get 20% off their treatment plan. but hurry, because while these summer savings won't last, the memories you make together will. aspen dental. book today.

- we're taking the family to cancun. - i'm off to iceland. - how are we getting there? - with going. - going drops cheap flight deals in my inbox to anywhere. - anytime, like now. - where are you going? sign up for free at going.com.

it's 20 minutes before the top of the hour. following last week's rebellion in russia, the u.s. and its allies are working to respond to the largest threat to vladimir putin's reign since he came to power more than two decades ago. this, as putin's war against ukraine rages on with reports of at least nine people killed in a missile strike in the eastern part of the country yesterday. at home the white house announced another $500 million in aid for ukraine. china, of course, is also keeping a close eye on all of this as beijing steps up its own pressure campaign against taiwan. for more on all of this, let's bring in united states secretary of state, antony blinken. also with us, nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell. thank you both for joining us. given the war in ukraine, how is

the united states and nato allies viewing this rebellion in russia? how does it change the dynamic, the geopolitical dynamic? also, did the u.s. know this rebellion was coming? >> first of all, mika, good morning and great to be with you. this is and remains in many ways an extraordinary moment because i think it has further reveals the failure of russia's war in ukraine, both abroad and also at home. we are seeing cracks emerge in not what its doing on the ground in ukraine, but if you put it in perspective, it's extraordinary. 16 months ago when we were sitting here, russian forces were on the door steps of kyiv and they thought it would take kyiv, and now you have mercenaries in putin's own making he now has to be focussed on and worried about, and almost in a nutshell that epitomizes

the war in ukraine, and across the board this has been a failure for putin and we are seeing internal cracks emerge. >> there's no question putin's weakness and military has been exposed over the last year and a half, and when you use the term cracks internally, what does that mean? he has ruled for almost a quarter of a century at this point, and when you talk about those internal cracks, what do those look like and how does it knock him out of power? >> we don't want to speculate where this is going to go, but you had a direct challenge to putin's authority by prigozhin, and it's not as if you need a satellite to figure that out, if

you have a social media account you could see this debate and argument going on inside of russia for months about the prosecution of the war, and prigozhin himself questioned the very premises of the war whether nato or ukraine presented a threat to russia, which neither does. that's what i am talking about. where that goes and when and how it gets there, that's a matter of speculation. we are relentlessly focused on ukraine itself, making sure it has what it needs to defend itself and take back the territory russia has taken. >> do you believe there are forces inside of russia willing and also able to push him aside and have a regime change inside the country? >> these are decisions and choices for russians to make, not for us to make. as i said, what we are focused on is ukraine itself. but there's no doubt that what we have seen in the last 48 hours are profound questions

that putin is going to have to answer, both questions internally. we have had a lot of questions we had to answer externally. look where putin is now, and it has managed to strengthen nato and we have a new member and another new member on its way, and it has managed to alienate ukraine and unite the country at the same time. this is a failure for putin, and now that there are cracks showing up internally, that just magnetizes the problem. >> good morning. does the russian military help ukraine, or does a weakened vladimir putin encourage him to be more aggressive and increase

the assaults? he has superiority in the air and there's a lot of damage he can do, especially to the nuclear plant? >> the counter offensive is in the early days and you heard the ukrainian secretary of defense say just yesterday they have to commit the bulk of their forces to this effort, but we just announced additional assistance to ukraine yesterday and they have what they need to be successful to the extent that moscow is distracted by its own internal divisions, and that may help to the extent that the wagner forces themselves are no longer on the front lines, and they literally throw people into a meat grinder of putin's own making, but that has had some affect. there's opportunity for ukraine, but it's in the early days and i think it will play out over not the next few days but over the

next weeks and months. >> what is your early assessment as to how china views what has happened there, this rebellion, because up there the alliance and tactics for russia at this point? >> beijing has had to walk the line on this from day one, and diplomatically forwarding its false arguments around the world, and trying to present itself as a peacemaker, i think that is getting more and more challenging. having said that, when i was in china we had conversations about the russian aggression against ukraine and we agreed it was something we needed to keep talking about and there may come a point if there's an opening for diplomacy, and we will try and play a positive and productive role and that's maybe in the future, and i think some of the tensions between the duel roles that china is trying to

play are more and more apparent. >> you met with president xi just two weeks ago, and the handshake and everything that came with it, and a couple days later president biden said president xi was a dictator, and do you share that view, that he's a dictator? >> well, i went there to make sure we had open lines of communication and to make sure the competition we are in veers away from conflicts, and one of the things i said to one of chinese's counterparts, and i said we will do and say things you don't like and you say and do things we don't like. >> catty kay has a question for you, mr. secretary. >> i was struck by the degree to

which people were asking me about, one, whether donald trump would come back again and that raises concerns to the degree where allies might start hedging their policies around china and ukraine, wondering where america would head in 2024, and also the split between europe and america, and i was wondering what you are saying to try and bring them onboard with china and what you are saying to them about their concerns about donald trump coming back again possibly? >> first, great to see you, too. i hate to do this, but i have to differ with you. i think we have more convergence on the approach to china than we have seen in anytime in recent memory. if you look and listen to what senior leaders in europe is saying, including the head of the european union commission, we could be exchanging speeches and talking points because we

are on the same line in the challenge that china presents as well as what we are doing about it, and across the board we are working very closely together to deal with that challenge. in fact, one of the things that is evident to me from my conversations in china is they are concerned we have a unity of purpose and unity of action with european allies as well as in asia, and i don't see that changing. look, all we can do is focus on the moment we are in, and the responsibilities that we have right now. none of us have a crystal ball when it comes to it comes to politics. at the end of the day, the more successful we are, the more effective we are in delivering for our own people and demonstrating the policies working the more likely it will be to sustain in the future. >> mr. secretary, there's reporting that a big focus on your conversations in beijing were on taiwan with china, very concerned about a more

aggressive, more nationalistic, more independence minded president, politician being elected in the coming elections, and you were stating your own neutrality about the forward election. what is your perception about president xi time line of invading, trying to take over taiwan. he said in the next five years a year ago. now president xi has a third term. is that more imminent? >> the main concern we have had with beijing's approach to taiwan is that he seems bent on changing the status quo has prevailed for 60 years, a successful part of the relationship with china, making sure we can maintain peace and stability across the taiwan strait. making sure any differences were resolved peacefully, no one on either side engage instead unilateral effort to change the status quo, we have had concerns

going back to 2016, not just the last months that china was acting more aggressively when it comes to taiwan. we had a very direct, very lengthy conversation about this. they have concerns about our policy. i clarified to the extent it need to be clarified, our policy hasn't changed. we stand by our long standing china policy and our expectation is that any differences will be resolved peacefully. this is not just a concern for the united states. it's a concern for virtually the entire world. you've got 50% of the commercial container travel for trade going through that strait every single day. you've got 75% of the semiconductors that the world relies on for smartphones, automobiles, dish washers, made on taiwan. if there's a crisis of china's making over taiwan, and you took that offline, you'd have a global economic crisis. making it clear china will manage this responsibly. it's really important that we

have clear, candid, direct, lengthy exchanges on this so they know exactly where we're coming from and they can also share what concerns them. >> so mr. secretary, the president is heading overseas about two weeks' time going to europe, the nato summit, being the center piece, a preview of what is message is going to be there. finland is coming in. sweden is on the verge with turkey having objected in the past, and president erdogan having gained reelection, are you confident he's dropped, and could it even happen at the summit. >> first, jonathan, i think the message is clear, and it's been the message we have had all along, which is our greatest strength among allies is in our unity, and the unity we have seen from before day one of the russian aggression has been extraordinary, and i think some people had doubts about whether it could be sustained on the contrary, it's stronger than ever. and that can be seen in nato itself, which is stronger than its ever been. as you said, it's already admitted one new member,

finland, and i'm confident that sweden will be joining finland very soon, and we're working on that. that, too, has been a profound failure of putin's war of aggression against ukraine. it's extraordinary. no one would have imagined that finland and sweden would be members of nato. i don't think anyone would have imagined that nato itself would be growing stronger and stronger. and the irony is, nato has never presented a threat to putin. it doesn't have any designs on russia. it's a defensive alliance, and yet putin's obsession has created a stronger alliance. >> we're already 16 months into the war, february 24th of last year is when vladimir putin invaded. it's already been a long war. many people talking about potential off ramps for vladimir putin, ways to end this war in a peaceful manner, but the ukrainians say, well, we're not going to give up anything. we were the ones invaded. i'm not giving territory to vladimir putin for his war of aggression, as you gamed this

out and talked to leaders on both sides and in europe, what is a reasonable way, a reasonable path to peace from where we are right now. >> well, first, willie, you know, you're exactly right. we have one of these rare instances because so much of what we do around the world is in shades of gray. this is pretty black and white. you've got an aggressor, you've got a victim. one thing we can't lose sight of talking strategy, how does this end, we're talking the events of this weekend. we can't lose sight of what this actually means day in and day out, the human dimension. just yesterday, the russians we want at another civilian area in kramatorsk, an attack hundreds of miles from the front lines, early morning before dawn, civilian building destroyed by russian missiles.

a father runs to his children's room, opens the door to their room. sophia, 7 years old, opens the door, the room is gone, the kids are gone. two of the six children killed that one day in april. let's not lose sight of this. but stepping back from that, we've all been very clear that this ultimately is going to end with diplomacy, with a negotiation. the main impediment to that right now is president putin's conviction that he can somehow outlast ukraine and outlast the rest of us. that's not going to happen, and i think one of the things you'll see at nato is a demonstration of our enduring commitment to ukraine, not only in the moment, not only in the immediate in terms of helping with the counter offensive, but also in helping it build up over time, a strong deterrent and defense force so that putin can't repeat this in a year, two years, five years. the sooner president putin internalizes that, the sooner

there's a chance to get to a genuine negotiation. the terms of a settlement ultimately have to be up to the ukrainians. we know so basic principles, peace has to be just endurable. and by just, i mean it has to account for the basic principles at heart of the u.n. charter, territorial integrity, sovereignty, these have to mean something. we can't validate a seizure by force. that would be an attempted peace. >> i want to build on willie's point there, given the ukrainian determination, where are we in this war? are we still in the beginning stages? are we looking at another winter ahead? and is there any concern that the u.s. congress or support around the world might wane? >> everything i'm seeing, mika is that the support remains, it remains strong, it remains bipartisan. and it remains transatlantic, and beyond transatlantic, we have about 50 country, including

well beyond europe are all supporting ukraine, and my strong sense is that people remain deeply committed to this, deeply committed that ukraine remains committed to peace. no one can tell you when this is going to end. what i can tell you is our commitment is there and we're determined to make sure ukraine comes out in a good place, in a place that is genuinely just and durable. >> u.s. secretary of state, antony blinken, thank you very much for coming on "morning joe." and andrea mitchell, thank you as well. we'll see you at noon on "andrea mitchell reports" right here on msnbc. thank you both. and coming up, we're following president biden this morning as he travels to chicago for a major speech on the economy. also ahead, we'll be joined by an attorney who argued for yesterday's supreme court decision in that major election case. neal katyal is our guest this

morning. keep it right here on "morning joe." morning. keep it right here on "morning joe. my late father-in-law lit up a room, but his vision dimmed with age. he had amd. i didn't know it then, but it can progress to ga, an advanced form of the disease. his struggle with vision loss from amd made me want to help you see warning signs of ga. like straight lines that seem wavy, blurry, or missing visual spots that make it hard to see faces like this one, or trouble with low light that makes driving at night a real challenge. if you've been diagnosed with amd and notice vision changes, don't wait. ga is irreversible. it's important to catch it early. talk to your eye doctor about ga and learn more at gawontwait.com

♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪

i had a whole desk full of lots of papers, and mostly newspaper articles, copies of magazines, copies of different plans, copies of stories having to do with many many subjects, and what was said was absolutely fine and very perfectly. we did nothing wrong. this is a whole hoax. >> you're not concerned with your own voice on those recordings. >> my voice was fine. what i say say wrong on the recordings. i didn't see the recordings. >> are there any recordings we should be concerned with? . >> i don't know of any recordings you should be concerned with. i don't do things wrong, i do things right. i'm a legitimate person. >> what we have done in our politics is create a situation where we're electing idiots. and i look at it through the lens of how do we elect serious

people, and i think electing serious people can't be partisan. but, you know, because of the situation we're in, we have a major party candidate who's trying to unravel our democracy, and i don't say that lightly. we have to think about, all right, what kinds of alliances are necessary to defeat him. >> it's just past the top of the hour. you just heard of part of donald trump's evolving defense for the elite audio recordings, and then a blunt assessment from liz cheney on the state of american politics. clearly referencing the former president. also this hour, a massive legal victory against the big lie. the supreme court just rejected a radical election theory. we'll be joined by neal katyal who argued that case before the high court back in december.

speaking of elections, a big headline this morning out of the democratic primaries in new york city, a member of the central park five is declaring victory in the race to represent central harlem. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." a lot to cover this hour. donald trump is once again claiming that he did nothing wrong, despite a leaked audio tape that appears to capture him showing off classified material to people without security clearances at his golf club. nbc news national correspondent gabe gutierrez has the latest. >> this morning, donald trump is insisting that newly surfaced audio recording was illegally leaked and amounts to election interference. >> every time the radical left democrats marks his communist and fascist, indict me, i consider it a badge. >> reporter: in the recording obtained by nbc news the former president is heard discussing with aides and writers working on then chief of staff's mark meadow's memoir, what appears to

be a classified document from general mark milley about plans for an attack on iran. >> they presented me this. this was him. this was the defense department and him. >> in the recording from july of 2021, mr. trump acknowledges he had not declassified the document. >> it is, like, highly confidential, secret. this is secret information. >> reporter: mr. trump is charged with 37 federal criminal counts related to his handling of classified documents, boxes of them found throughout his mar-a-lago estate. he's pleaded not guilty. in a new interview, mr. trump saying he had no documents, and it was bravado. also telling fox news digital, he did nothing wrong. >> he had a whole desk full of lots of papers and newspaper articles, copies of magazines, copies of different plans, copies of stories. >> reporter: it comes as republicans are hoping to shift the spotlight to hunter biden who reached a plea deal resulting in no prison time, as a whistleblower is coming

forward with new allegations saying the investigation was hindered. >> there were certain investigative steps we weren't allowed to take that could have led us to president biden. >> irs supervisory agent, gary shapley telling cbs news, with hunter biden or anyone else, things would have been different. >> if this was any other person, they likely would have served their sentence. >> reporter: other experts say the tax charges are rarely brought against other offenders. meanwhile, liz cheney telling lester holt it's time for her party to move past trump. >> it's very clear for the republican party, you know, they have to choose. and the choice is whether or not you support the constitution or you support donald trump. >> nbc gabe gutierrez reporting,

and we have susan page, and former policy director for the 2012 mitt romney presidential campaign and chief policy adviser, lon he chen. i want to ask you about the comments about the classified documents. usually he spins things in a way that you could see how the base would eat it up, but here he appears to be grasp at one point even saying, you could hear the rustling of the papers, the classified documents, and it seems to me that republicans still want to kind of explain this away when legal experts like andrew weissmann say this is donald trump on tape describing the crime he committed. >> his defense seems kind of extemporaneous. it was like he was thinking out loud as he was describing this new bravado defense. i'm not sure that's got a big legal history to it. you know, one of the things we know with historians is they

give a lot of credit to contemporaneous accounts, diaries and more modern times, recordings at the moment, because it's before people have figured out what the consequences are going to be or what the politics are going to be or the legal ramifications might be. there's no reason to lie when you're helping mark meadows write his book. you get to the current time, and former president trump is giving an entirely different explanation than what we heard on that tape, and i think that, you know, you think about what that means to his base, also think about what that might mean to potential jurors who are considering the charges against him, mika. >> and you know, we heard a rambling defense, a separate interview from donald trump yesterday, a print interview where he said as he moved along, it was actually plans for buildings he was developing, and landing ultimately on plans for a golf course, despite the fact that he explicitly says on the tape that their defense department documents, none of

this has done much to erode the support at least among republicans for donald trump. one of his most loyal supporters, house speaker kevin mccarthy says he doesn't know if the former president is the republican party's strongest candidate for 2024. said that, then walked it back. here's first what he said on cnbc yesterday. >> makes it complicated if he's got all of these trials, and all of this stuff overhanging. >> it makes it complicated, also helps him when -- >> do you think he could win an election? >> can he win that election, yes, he can. the question is he the strongest to win the election? i don't know that answer. >> questioning if donald trump is the strongest, well, shortly after that interview, rolling stone says it began receiving unsolicited messages from donald trump's associates accusing mccarthy of being ungrateful to the former president, something we hear a lot from donald trump. when people are not grateful to him, then in an attempt seemingly to do damage control, mccarthy gave another interview with breitbart news where he claimed, quote, trump is

stronger today than he was in 2016. some reporting as well, that he called donald trump to to apologize yesterday, this episode yesterday illustrated where the party is. maybe they quietly believe, and sometimes it leaks out to cnbc that donald trump is not the best opponent to run against joe biden, and they can't say that out loud for fear of getting in trouble with the boss. >> as a republican, i'll tell you, donald trump is not the strongest candidate to go up against joe biden. i will say this, i think there's two separate conversations going on, willie, there's a legal conversation, and the former president is in significant trouble, and there's a political conversation. the former president has made an assessment that he's going to continue doing what he did throughout the entire term of his presidency, what he did when he ran for president the first time, which is essentially to bolster his standing with the republican base, and that seems to be working in that i don't think his numbers have eroded

very much. we'll see in the coming weeks and months whether that holds but i think that the danger for republicans here is you have someone who can become the nominee who will be unelectable with independents and moderates who you need to win the presidency. there's a little bit of a challenge in that i think while he has continued to be the front runner in the republican primary field, and i don't believe that has changed or will change, i do think it compromises pa party's ability to do two things, one is to win the presidency in 2024, the second to capture majorities in the house and senate, which i think other people in washington around the country have some concern about. >> let me stay with you. donald trump right now, we just saw what happened when kevin mccarthy dared criticize him for a second, he had to call and apologize within hours. some of the republican candidates on the trail who are also vying for the nomination have started to go after him. chris christie has a lot.

other than him, it's pretty rare. we heard from nikki haley on china. desantis has done it swooit once in a while. do you see any sort of sea change where more might need to take him on knowing they have to beat him? >> politics is a pure marketplace, right? people are going to react to whatever will sell well, i guess. and so the challenge is that for many of these candidates, they see the same numbers that all the rest of us see, and the numbers tell us that support for the former president is a significant factor in determining whether a republican primary voter will support a particular candidate. and so the challenge is the tight rope you have to walk between appearing as though you still are in theory supportive of trump, while at the same time trying to distinguish your own lane. it is a very difficult balancing act. it's very hard on the one hand

to run against someone, and on the other hand, say, well, i kind of like them, and i still support them, when the fundamental challenge is you've got someone who probably violated several federal laws. so i just don't think that this particular balance is going to shift until the republican primary electorate demonstrates that it's interested in moving on from trump. we're going to turn to a major ruling yelled from the supreme court, which made it more difficult for the big lie to repeat itself in 2024. the case, moore versus harper, based out of north carolina, centered on a radical theory known as the independent state legislature theory. it would have given state legislatures virtually unchecked power on federal elections based on an extreme interpretation of the constitution's election clause. in a 6-3 ruling, the supreme court rejected that antidemocratic theory with chief justice john roberts and

justices brett kavanaugh and amy coney barrett siding with the liberals. in his opinion, the chief justice writes, the elections clause does not insulate state legislatures, from the ordinary exercise of state judicial review, and the framers are the mere creatures of the state constitutions and cannot be greater than their creators. john eastman, a legal adviser to donald trump embraced this fringe theory as a way to overturn the 2020 election, arguing that then vice president mike pence had the power to refuse to certify the results. in an e-mail exchange with nbc news, eastman claimed the ruling would prevent legislatures from addressing illegality and fraud in a timely manner. when asked if the ruling invalidates the arguments he made in 2020, eastman wrote, quote, no, but it would be

murkier than it was previously. let's bring in the attorney who won that supreme court case. neal katyal, he's also an msnbc legal analyst. neal, i would love to hear what you think about eastman's comments on this, and what were the main considerations before the justices that made this 6-3, rather than unanimous. >> thank you, pleasure to be with you. john eastman can read supreme court decisions, as well as he can read the constitution. i don't think it's worth talking about his views quite honestly. basically, look, here's what happened in this decision. there was a legal theory that donald trump peddled that john eastman peddled, other republicans peddled in 2020 that state legislatures can do whatever they want. that's because remember there are about 60 court cases in the 2020 election. trump lost them all. they were all basically in state courts. and so this republican theory

that was now advantagesed before -- advanced before the supreme court, state legislature can do anything from redistricting, and pointing the fake slate of electors, and they can do without the state courts, without the state constitutions having any role in this whatsoever. it's just raw political power, and that's what supreme court resoundingly rejected yesterday in the chief justice's opinion, an opinion that was notably joined by two trump appointees, brett kavanaugh, and amy coney barrett. >> you know, neal, congratulations on this victory, and of course there were some analysts concerned it was possible it would go the other way. let me ask you this, is it encouraging that it was a super majority that it was a 6-3 decision or is it discouraging because that means three members of the supreme court were willing to embrace a doctrine that has been seen as quite extreme and fringe in the past? >> i think it's quite

encouraging. i mean, it's a signal to me that the supreme court with the solid 6 justice majority behind it, you only need five. that these six are going to resist attempts by state legislatures to mess with the integrity of future elections, including the 2024 election, and you're absolutely right, that many people thought we wouldn't be able to win this case. indeed, all of our allies, all of the other plaintiffs in the case, decided to go to the supreme court and tell them not to decide this case after it was argued. and they wanted to try and get rid of the case, and those arguments were so wrong, and so misguided and they stand as a powerful lesson, if you carefully study the united states supreme court's decisions, litigants can win cases that stand up for our democracy, and that's what happened. >> congratulations on winning this case. if we can bring it down to a ground level for people because it is so significant, what it might have looked like in 2024 and beyond. if you had lost this case at the

supreme court, what would elections look like in places like north carolina? >> super dangerous and scary. it would mean, first of all, state legislatures can write all of the maps for who votes, and they could, you know, exclude people, and empower certain people, like this election that this case had, it came from north carolina. it's an evenly divided state, so there would have been seven republicans and seven democrats if it were done normally but the way the republican state legislature did it, they gerrymandered it, it would have had ten or 11 republican seats and only three democratic ones, and that's just on the districting. it could be on anything, a state legislature could say, for example, no one can absentee vote, period, no one at all, or they could change the polling places in minority communities the day before the election, or any number of shenanigans, limited by their ingenuity and

the courts would have no role in policing that. the state legislatures could do anything they want. that's fundamentally un-american, that's what i said to the supreme court, go back, justices you claim to care about history of the constitution, the history of the country, go back and look, it's as clear as day. >> msnbc legal analyst, neal katyal, congratulations, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning and sharing your insights. susan page, and lanhee chen, thank you both as well for being on this morning. it's a time for a look at other stories making headlines this morning. ford motor plans to lay off at least a thousand salaried workers in north america. a spokesperson says the auto maker began notifying employees and engineering departments about the job cuts yesterday morning. ford has made several rounds of global layoffs over the past year including cutting 3,000 jobs in the u.s. last summer.

executives say the company's annual costs are higher than its rivals, coming in at about 7 to $8 billion. and smoke from canadian wildfires is blanketing chicago, and much of the great lakes region. tens of millions of residents are now dealing with unhealthy air quality conditions. last night, chicago and detroit were among the top three cities in the world with the worst air quality. officials say this could last for the next few days. new york is also expected to see hazy skies this week, and willie, we remember what that was like, you could barely see down the block in new york city. >> yeah, it was for a few days, and it looks like it's coming again. not looking forward to that. an extraordinary story out of new york this morning, a member of the exonerated central park five is on track to represent central harlem, the new york city council.

yusef salaam declared victory. he has 51% of the vote with 95% of the ballots counted. he likely will win if he remains above 50%, otherwise a rank choice system will kick in. he leads the current second place candidate by nearly twice as many votes. salaam, you'll remember, was 15 years old, when he was arrested in 1989, accused along with four other teenagers of beating and raping a woman in central park. members of the group served between five and 12 years in prison before dna evidence and a confession ultimately linked to serial rapist and murderer to the attack and the men were exonerated but not until after years of suffering. this is an amazing story, jonathan, anybody who grew up in the area like i did until the late '80s, early '90s. this was the story of the era. they were arrested, charged, convicted they went to jail, didn't do it. exonerated and now yusef salaam

it looks like is going to be on the new york city council. >> donald trump called for the death penalty of the five men. that did not happen. it's a remarkable story. we had him as a guest on "morning joe" a few months ago, and he spoke. this is someone who was so wronged by the system. he was dealt such injustice, he believed best way to change it was to do from within. he believed in the country, believed that things could change. he believed activism could happen, and prove effective change from within. this is a district where there's not going to be a republican challenger of any credibility if fall. he would win that seat, and that would be a remarkable moment. >> and he's very close to doing it right now. amazing story. coming up next, what secretary of state antony blinken had to say here just moments ago about the impact of the rebellion in russia, part of our conversation with america's top diplomat is just ahead. emmy nominated actor rupert friend joins us with a preview of the wes anderson film

everyone is talking about. it's called "asteroid city." you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. be right ba. are you still struggling with your bra? it's time for you to try knix. makers of the world's comfiest wireless bras. for revolutionary support without underwires, and sizes up to a g-cup,

find your new favorite bra today at knix.com more shopping? you should watch your spending honey. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that. let me put a reminder on my phone. save $700 dollars. pick up dad from airport? ohhhhhh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ - the company goes to the firstborn, audrey. the model train set is entrusted to todd. mr. marbles will receive recurring deliveries for all of his needs in perpetuity, thanks to autoship from chewy.

- i always loved that old man. - what's it say about the summer house? - yeah, the beach house- - the summer residence goes to mr. marbles. (mr. marbles chuckles) - plot twist! - i'm sorry, what? - doesn't make logistical sense. - unbelievable. - pets aren't just pets. they're more. - you got a train set, todd. - [announcer] save more on what they love and never run out with autoship from chewy. income tax. sales tax. gas tax. californians pay some of the highest taxes in the nation. but now lawmakers are proposing a so-called “link tax” that would charge websites every time they link to a news article online. experts warn it could undermine the open internet, punish local newspapers, while subsidizing hedge funds and big media corporations. so tell lawmakers: oppose ab886, because another new tax is the last thing we need. paid for by ccia.

welcome back, despite last week's rare uprising in russia, the violence in ukraine has shown no signs of slowing down. at least nine people were killed there yesterday, including three children when a missile slammed into a pizza restaurant in the eastern part of the country. last hour, we spoke with the united states secretary of state, antony blinken, and asked him about the ongoing war, and how it could be impacted by the political unrest in moscow. >> this is and it remains in many ways an extraordinary

moment because i think it's further revealed the failure of russia's war in ukraine, both abroad and also at home. and we're seeing some cracks emerge not just in what it's doing on the ground in ukraine, but back toward moscow. if you put this in perspective, it's really extraordinary. 16 months ago, if we were sitting here, russian forces were on the doorstep of kyiv. they thought they were going to erase ukraine from the map as an independent country. fast forward 16 months, you have forces heading toward moscow. look at where russia is now as a result of this aggression. weaker militarily, weaker economically, its standing in the world has plummeted. it's managed to get europe off of russian energy. it's managed to strengthen nato. we even have a new member and another new member on its way. it's managed to alienate virtually all of ukraine and unite the country at the same time. so across the board, this has been a strategic failure for putin. and to the extent that there are now cracks emerging internally,

that only magnifies the problem he's facing. >> you obviously met with president xi just under two weeks ago, had a meeting that you called productive, the handshake moment, a couple of days later, president biden referred to president xi as a dictator, do you share that view that he's a dictator? >> one of the reasons i went to china at the president's behest to make sure we had clear lines of communication, that we can work through our differences and see if we can find areas where it makes sense to cooperate. one of the things i said to our chinese counter parts is we are going to say, and we are going to do things that you don't like. you do and say a lot of things that we don't like, and wer going to have to work through that. >> does that make him a dictator? >> the president speaks for all of us, he speaks candidly, clearly. so much of what he's doing around the world, you have an

aggressor, you have a victim. one thing we can't lose sight of when we're talking about strategy, how does this end, the events of the weekend, what this means day in and day out, the human dimension, just yesterday, the russians went at another civilian area in kramatorsk, destroyed a pizzeria where people were eating a meal. pick one day in april, an attack on a city, hundreds of miles from the front lines, early morning, before dawn, civilian building destroyed by russian missiles. a father, dmitro, runs to his children's room, opens the door to their room, carillo, 17, sophia, 11 years old, opens the door, the room is gone, his kids are gone. two of the six children that one day in april. so let's not lose sight of this.

but stepping back from that, we've all been very clear that this ultimately is going to end with diplomacy, with a negotiation. the main impediment is president putin's conviction that he can somehow outlast ukraine and outlast the rest of us. that's not going to happen. and i think one of the things you'll see at nato is a demonstration of our enduring commitment to ukraine, not only in the moment, not only in the immediate in terms of helping with the counter offensive but also in helping it build up over time a strong deterrent and defense force so that putin can't repeat it in a year, two years, five years. the sooner president putin internalizes that, the sooner there's a chance to get to a genuine negotiation. >> u.s. secretary of state antony blinken on "morning joe" in the last hour. still ahead for the first time in 20 years ago the cdc is tracking local cases of malaria in the united states. we'll have the latest on the handful of patients with the disease.

that's next on "morning joe." te disease. that's next on "morning joe. from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. ♪ with wet amd, sometimes i worry my world vabysmo is the first fda-approved treatment for people with wet amd that improves vision and delivers a chance for up to 4 months between treatments. which means doing more of what i love. ♪

vabysmo is the only treatment designed to block 2 causes of wet amd. vabysmo is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection or active swelling in or around your eye, or are allergic to it or any of its ingredients. treatments like vabysmo can cause eye infection or retinal detachment. vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. although uncommon, there is a potential risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. open up your world! a chance for up to 4 months between treatments with vabysmo. ask your doctor. [whistle] rover! he will bark at you once, but then you're best friends for life. helicopter on your finger to get his attention like this. king king... ♪ he loves people. can't wait. ♪♪

6:34 in the morning, some clouds over l.a., but it's l.a., those will burn off. beautiful day, 9:34 in new york city. a record breaking heat wave continues to plague the southern united states with temperatures hitting triple digits for the third week in a row. at least 45 million americans now are under heat advisory today. nbc news correspondent sam brock has details. >> this morning, millions of people across the country waking up to scorching triple digit temperatures. >> i wish i could tell you i'm used to it after 45 years, but i'm not. it's still hot. >> reporter: with the heat wave in effect, the national weather service saying it's essential to limit heat exposure. ramping up check-ins, especially

in new orleans, that is facing record heat levels. >> this is unprecedented. we know the city of new orleans has been on the front lines of climate change, this is yet another example of that. extreme, excessive heat that we have never experienced before. >> reporter: the sizzling conditions, spreading to many other cities too including houston where triple digit temps buckled roads, and the electrical grid in texas breaking it's all time daily use record for june. >> trying to stay hydrated and stay in the shade as much as possible. >> reporter: to the north, canadian wildfire smoke once again impacting air quality in the u.s., both chicago and detroit were rated the worst air quality in the world on tuesday, that choking smoke expected to arrive in new york as early as today, while in turpin, oklahoma, a possible tornado tearing through this barn, threatening super cell clouds, with wind gusts topping 100 miles per hour, a stark contrast to the extreme heat that has some questioning whether it's worth going outside. >> i will not be leaving my

house unless i absolutely have to. 100 degrees is unbearable. >> nbc news's sam brock with that report. meanwhile, the cdc has issued a health alert to the public after five cases of malaria were reported within the u.s. over the last two months. nbc news correspondent blayne alexander has the details. >> reporter: they are the pesky part of summer time fun, from kids' camps to backyard barbecues, mosquitos are often the unwanted guest. but this morning, the cdc is sending a warning about mosquito transmitted malaria cases. it comes after state health officials have identified five locally acquired malaria cases in recent weeks. four in florida, one in texas, all transmitted by mosquito bites. >> what was different about this is these happened domestically, meaning people didn't travel abroad and come to the u.s., and then get diagnosed with malaria. >> officials say there's no

evidence the cases in the two states are linked. in florida, all four cases were detected in sarasota county, now the entire state is under a mosquito-borne illness advisory. malaria symptoms can be similar to the flu, fever, body aches and chills, as well as headaches and nausea and vomiting. malaria is treatable with the help of prescription drugs. >> we need physicians to understand that they should have some suspicion for malaria, and it's not difficult to diagnose, and it's not difficult to treat. >> reporter: the key, officials say, protection, that includes wearing epa approved insect repellents, covering up with long sleeves and pants, especially during dawn and dusk when mosquitos are most active. and getting rid of any standing water where mosquitos can lay eggs. >> and coming up on "morning joe," actor rupert friend is

standing by. he joins us with a look at the new movie, "asteroid city." that's next on "morning joe." w . that's next on "morning joe. somebody would ask her something and she would just walk right past them. she didn't know they were talking to her. i just could not hear. i was hesitant to get the hearing aids because of my short hair. but nobody even sees them. our nearly invisible hearing aids are just one reason we've been the brand leader for over 75 years. when i finally could hear for the first time, i started crying. i could hear everything. call 1-800-miracle and schedule your free hearing evaluation today. (fisher investments) in this market, you'll find fisher investments is different than other money managers. call 1-800-miracle and schedule (other money manager) different how? aren't we all just looking for the hottest stocks? (fisher investments) nope. we use diversified strategies to position our clients' portfolios for their long-term goals. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions for you, right? (fisher investments) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary,

obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money, only when your clients make more money? (fisher investments) yep. we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different.

hi, i'm tony hawk, and like many of you, i take a statin to reduce cholesterol, but statins can also deplete coq10 levels. that's why my doctor recommended qunol coq10. qunol has the number one cardiologist recommended form of coq10. qunol. the brand i trust.

how long can they keep us in asteroid city, the world will never be the same. >> what's out there? the meaning of life. >> don't tell my kids.

>> are you saying my mother died three weeks ago. let's say she's in heaven, it doesn't exist for me, of course, but you're an. >> i don't know if that included you but it included my daughter and your four children. >> sometimes i feel more at home outside the earth's atmosphere. >> wow, me too. >> that is just a part of the trailer for the new wes anderson film "asteroid city" which is in theaters now. anderson's 11th feature film. the guardian describes it has a meta tale set in a 1950s desert town with a starry cast and meticulous attention to detail. joining us now, a member of the starry cast, rupert friend who plays the character montana in the film. rupert, good morning, it's great to have you on with us. i have had a chance to see this movie, so cool visually, just like everything wes anderson does and is.

i know you're working with him on another film, to step into the universe of wes anderson, what does that mean to you as an actor? >> good morning, thanks for having me. it's an extraordinary experience. wes anderson has the most brilliant imagination, he's one of the most thoughtful, intelligent, writers and film makers working today. to step on a set that he's created is like stepping inside his mind, which is a beautiful place to go and work and play. >> tell us about this movie, the trailer indicates of course there appears to be an alien involved. for those who want to watch. give us a preview as to what we should expect beyond the usual wes anderson quirkiness. >> the movie centers on a grip of junior stargazers, gathered in the desert for a conference toward prizes and as you said, this is interrupted by an alien coming down, which forces this little town into quarantine. this disparate group of eclectic

characters are thrown together, and we're going to find everyone from my group, singing cowboys, to schoolteacher who has a cohort of children with her, and the parents of stargazers are thrown together, and have to effectively get along and discover perhaps what life is all about. >> this cast, as we're seeing these pictures roll by, tom hanks, scarlett johansson, jason schwarzman, it goes on and on, and it comes at you. i had a chance to interview scarlett johansson, and she was talking about the experience of making this where you all sort of went off together, i think to spain, correct me if i'm wrong, it was a little bit like being at camp together. is that fair to say? >> yeah, it's just right. we all lived together in a converted monastery in spain. it was covid, so we didn't really go anywhere else. we were eating together every night and playing music after dinner, and it really was, you're absolutely right, like a summer camp of sorts, and the

cast, aside from being extraordinarily talented was one of the most kind, friendly and supportive groups of people that i have ever had the honor to work with. >> rupert, i feel like i need to ask, this is about aliens. what do you think? are there -- do you believe in aliens, and if so, would they encounter us like this? >> would they encounter us like this? i hope they would see that we're all a very mixed up, wonderful eclectic bank of people down here on earth, and that they would see us all getting along is my hope. i'm not sure if i believe in the kind of proverbial little green men, but i think the idea that we are the only energetic or intelligence force in the universe is perhaps a little naive. >> bringing the heat with the hard hit questions and a strong answer from rupert friend. asteroid city is out now, starring rupert and a cast of

extraordinary stars. rupert, thank you so much. we've got live pictures of president biden right now at joint base andrews where he's about to depart for chicago. there he will make a major address on a thing called bidenomics, his vision for growing the economy. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." omy. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." how are folks 60 and older having fun these days? family cookouts! [blowing] [dice roll] ♪ playing games! [party chatter] dancin in the par—!

hi, i'm tony hawk, and like many of you, i take a statin to reduce cholesterol, but statins can also deplete coq10 levels. that's why my doctor recommended qunol coq10. qunol has the number one cardiologist recommended form of coq10. qunol. the brand i trust.

fundamental freedoms are under attack in our country today and there is a national agenda at play by these extremist so-called leaders. it will be a national ban on abortion. it is the tradition of our country to fight for freedom, to fight for rights... to fight for the ability of all people to be who they are and make decisions about their own lives and their bodies. and we will fight for the ideals of our country. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need.

that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ one fastball in the wrong spot for kopek, it could be 1-0 here. that is high, that is deep, that is gone, that is number 27 for shohei ohtani. >> left center field, it's gone! shohei ohtani with his second of the night! >> that is angels two-way

superstar shohei ohtani extending his mlb home run lead last night with numbers 27 and 28 for the season, but there's more. as pitcher, when he walked out to the mound, he struck out ten batters in 6 1/3 innings of work for a 4-2 win over the white sox. ohtani already has earned a starting spot on the american league all star team as the leading vote getter and designated hitter. also looked to be named an all star as both a pitcher and hitter for the third season in a row. we just can't come up with enough superlatives. superstar is not quite enough. once in a generation we throw around. this guy is once in a lifetime, two home runs in one game and also ten strikeouts as he goes out to the mound. it's just staggering what he's putting up again this year. >> once in a century. he's babe ruth. he is babe ruth, except he's doing both things at once, pitcher and hitter at the same time. shohei ohtani leads in home runs, rbis, slugging, and on ways percentage as a hitter.

he also leads the league in strikeouts per nine as a pitcher. >> impossible. >> what he's doing is impossible, and at least so far this year the angels have been successful. that's been the knock on them the last few years, even with ohtani and mike trout they haven't sniffed the playoffs. >> they're in the wild card, not by a lot. this was in pittsburgh against the padres. pirates left fielder, josh pa las ios racing to the corner, let's see this again, reaching backwards, oh, my gosh. kind of over ran it to rob juan soto of a would be home run in the seventh innings. pirates beat the padres 9-4. great catch there, long season for the big money padres. >> the padres one of the most disappointing teams in baseball. right now they're out of the playoffs. the only other team in contention for most disappointing, the new york mets who are eight or nine games out

of 500. >> painful for the mets fans in your family to hear that. >> oh, right. oh, dear, got to call my daughter. now to a look at the morning papers. we begin in california where the san francisco chronicle reports the city's office vacancy rate has hit a record high because of remote work and plunging tenant demand. according to preliminary real estate data, nearly 32% of offices remain empty downtown. willie. in minnesota, the star tribune has a front page feature on the united states seeing a rise in pedestrian deaths. according to the governor's highway safety association, at least 7,500 people were hit and killed while out walking last year. that's the highest number since 1981. several factors may have contributed to this including more risky driving during the pandemic, a lack of awareness and enforcement of laws meant to keep pedestrians safe. mika. charleston gazette-mail

report $200 million may have been stolen from a covid relief fund. that's according to an estimate from a federal watchdog. it found 17% of the money from the economic disaster alone and paycheck protection program were given to fraudulent actors. the federal government gave out more than a trillion dollars through these programs during the pandemic. and that does it for us this morning. for willie and me, seacrest out. >> seacrest in as you said. >> seacrest in and out. all right, after a quick final break. ght, after a quick final break. that's my husband... it's the inspire implant. he's not struggling with cpap anymore. all that rest is working wonders for him. inspire. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. from prom dresses learn mor to workoutsmportant safety information

and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination. meet the portable blender we can barely keep in stock. blendjet 2 gives you ice-crushing, big blender power on-the-go. so you can blend up a mouthwatering smoothie, protein shake, or latte wherever you are! recharge quickly with any usb port. best of all,

it even cleans itself! just blend water with a drop of soap. what are you waiting for? order yours now from blendjet.com before they sell out again! you founded your kayak company because you love the ocean- not spreadsheets. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire i will be a travel influencer... hey, i thought you were on vacation? it's too expensive. use priceline, they've got deals no one else has. what about work? i got you. looking great you guys! ♪ go to your happy price ♪ ♪ priceline ♪

sleepovers just aren't what they used to be. ♪a house full of screens?♪ basically no hiccups? you guys have no idea how good you've got it. how old are you? like, 80? back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. we don't get scared. oh, really? mom can see your search history. that's what i thought. introducing the next generation 10g network. only from xfinity.

hey, everything, it's 10:00 a.m. in the ea