a new wave of deadly attacks on civilians. >> does a weakened vladimir putin and a divided russian military help ukraine? >> to the extent moscow is distracted by its own internal divisions, it may help. it's early days. i think this will play out over the next weeks and months. president biden is in chicago to deliver a key economic policy address as the white house crafts a strategy to combat the growing concerns among voters over the president's age. good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in new york today. former president trump's explanation for the leaked audio

recording from bedminster, where he appears to be showing a classified document about the war in iran to people with security clearances at his new jersey golf resort -- or people without security clearances, of course. that's evolving by the day with two new lines of defense on tuesday. first in new hampshire, to fox news digital. >> a whole desk full of lots of papers, mostly newspaper articles, copies of magazines, copies of different plans, copies of stories having to do with many, many subjects. what was said was absolutely fine and very perfectly. we did nothing wrong. this is a whole hoax. >> then this aboard his plane saying -- >> another legal concern for team trump is that bedminster trump property, where aides say

he brought boxes of papers from mar-a-lago every summer, with "the new york times" reporting that jack smith's prosecutors have subpoenaed surveillance footage from his new jersey resort. considered a search warrant for more documents at the new jersey property that they thought might be there but lacked probable cause to get a warrant from a judge. joining me now, vaughn hillyard who has been covering the trump campaign, former u.s. attorney harry litman and phil rucker. vaughn, you were in new hampshire with the former president. he looked very subdued in that brief clip we saw. he keeps coming up with these different explanations for the bedminster audio, which is potentially very damaging. >> look, we started last august with his assertion that perhaps the fbi planted documents. over the course of the last ten months, it has been hard for me to keep track of his explanations and his own legal

defenses. a week ago, compared to the day before, and then the two explanations yesterday, when he was asked about, quote, plans he referenced, he said he was referring to his golf course plans and his, quote, building plans. he is crossing so many pieces of yarn that it's creating a knot that prosecutors are going to have to get through. i'm struggling based off the number of defenses. i have no doubt that for the department of justice, it's tougher. >> if it's difficult for the department of justice, harry, it's so difficult for the defense. >> very. i think they just display the knot to the jury. it says two things. even on the text, that's leaving aside everything from the tape itself is incredible, immaturity about serious -- what he represented to be a national security document first. it shows 12 different stories. that's not good for his credibility.

you present that to the jury. second, it completely obliterates not just the notion that he could declassify now, but the notion that he somehow magically declassified everything he took with him, it blows that out of the water. on the substance, that's why i think they showcased it pretty high in the indictment and even beyond that, it describes him as a guy who will completely play fast and loose with the most serious national secrets. >> there seems to be more of a focus on bedbedminster. they didn't go for a search warrant. one reason we can infer is they don't have the document. they probably have witness testimony about what was going on in the room. maybe it said top secret. maybe it didn't. according to other reporting, the document may be lost, quote unquote. >> i think you are 100%. even if there was a document, perhaps there's some -- they will ask witnesses, something

that said confidential. i think this is theater by trump. they don't have it. as to the probable cause, under the constitution, it has to be fresh. remember, this audiotape is from july 2021. by the time -- >> that's a good point. i didn't realize that. you as a former prosecutor and as an expert lawyer know that very well. it has to be fresh evidence. >> they would have gotten it if they could. they have to convince a math -- magistrate. >> phil, you have been covering this. you have written two incredible books. what we are watching is incredible. he is lashing out, true to form. in posts this morning and last night, he claimed that jack smith leaked the bedminister in 2021.

>> it wasn't audio part of the indictment. what's interesting is it contradicts what trump has been saying to try to explain that meeting. he said in the clip you just showed yesterday from new hampshire that these were papers or news clippings or magazine articles or whatever. it's very clear in the context of the conversation that we hear in audio that he is talking about these as secret, as classified documents, it's fairly sensitive national security. that's not a magazine article or a newspaper clipping. >> yeah. the other thing he said in that, we didn't use, was that he talked about it could be plans for his golf courses. vaughn, let's talk about january 6. it all gets back to january 6. ruy giuliani is now talking to them? >> yes. he met recently, we have

learned. an aide to him says he met with prosecutors from the special counsel's office. it was voluntary and conducted in a professional manner. rudy giuliani, as we watch the investigation, is a key lynchpin. there was that internal white house battle between sydnee powell, rudy giuliani over litigation in key states. he went to arizona, michigan. he spoke at the statehouse to the state senate in which he -- for rudy giuliani, he was a part of these conversations. to what extent was he telling the truth? he has been a defiant defender of donald trump. >> i want to mention comments

from an irs whistle-blower. a member of the team that investigated hunter garland. they have denied the claim that weiss was blocked from bringing tougher charges. shapley is telling cbs news he was directed to avoid leads involving joe biden as early as the months leading up to his election victory. let's watch. >> there were certain investigative steps we weren't allowed to take that could have led us to president biden. >> you wanted to take them? >> we needed to take them. >> you weren't allowed to take them? >> that's correct. >> harry, you know merrick garland. i don't know if you know david weiss. their denials have been fierce. david weiss was held over by the white house even though he was a

trump appointee. precisely because he was supposed to be independent and not interfered with about hunter, the president's son, and also there's plenty of reporting that the plea deal he got was a more serious criminal charge than average people would have gotten. what about this? >> all that that you have said is clearly true. it's very implausible for starters. i'm a whistle-blower lawyer. this guy is not a whistle-blower. a whistle-blower goes within the agency, follows the procedures, says something wrong has happened. this guy is just a complainer with maybe a political ax to grind or maybe just a professional -- >> normally, i defer and i just say agent or officer. >> i agree. they are in a great run of calling anything -- they want to expunge the impeachment. a whistle-blower means someone

who reports malfeasance. he didn't go through any process. there's no corroboration. it's implausible. that's my brief reaction. >> that's why we are so glad we have you and your expertise. i appreciate it. and vaughn, invaluable to have you here, knowing donald trump the way you do. thank you. >> thanks, andrea. breaking news from newfoundland. new images of the titan submersible recovered by the canadian coast guard after learning the five person crew on board the private deep sea tour were killed during the expedition. the company that owned and operated the sub has closed indefinitely in the days following the catastrophic implosion that made headlines around the world. the age-old issue, as he runs for a second term, president biden trying to make

light of voters' concerns about his advancing years. that's next when "andrea mitchell reports" is back in just 60 seconds. don't go away. we are right back right here on msnbc. first, there's an idea and you do something about it for the first time with godaddy. then before you know it, (it is a life changer...) you make your first sale. small business first. never stopped coming. (we did it!) and you have a partner that always puts you first way. (no way!) start today at godaddy.com. permission to dig in? granted. breyers carbsmart is so rich, so creamy,

it tastes totally off-limits. but with only 4 grams of net carbs in every delicious serving, you've got the green light. better starts with breyers. nbc news is reporting the white house has come up with a new strategy recently to deal with the age issue, amidst poll numbers in our poll showing two-thirds of voters have concerns about the president's age, something he can't do anything about. making self-deprecating jokes to try to diffuse the issue. biden has been cracking jokes about his age more often than usual. >> by the way, i've been doing this a long time. i know i don't look that old. i know. i'm a little under 103. i know i look like i'm still 29. think about it.

i know i'm 198 years old. after all, i believe in the first amendment. not just because my good friend jimmy madison wrote it. they say i'm ancient. i say, i'm wise. they say i'm over the hill. don lemon would say, that's a man in his prime. >> the new nbc poll shows 68% of all voters say they are concerned about president biden having the necessary mental and physical health to do the job. that includes 55% with major concerns. those numbers have grown since the 2020 campaign. donald trump is only three years younger than joe biden. voters seem to be less worried about trump's age. only 55% call that a major or moderate concern. joe biden is now 80 years old. if re-elected, he would be the oldest president in american history, turning 86 by the end of his second term. a position he is not shying away from. joining me now is nbc news chief white house correspondent and

weekend "today" co-anchor kristin welker, former republican congressman david jolly. many of those moments we heard were not scripted remarks. what's the strategy here? >> andrea, this is a new strategy by the president, i am told, to own the fact and the reality that, yes, if he is re-elected he will be the oldest president to serve. of course, that reporting comes from carol lee and mike memoli who noted he is making these types of jokes, trying to downplay the age issue. i spoke to a democratic source who is close with the white house and really pressed this person on those poll numbers, the fact there seems to be increasing concern about his fitness for office. the response from this person was, look at the results. look at the fact that he won in 2020, the fact that democrats had a strong showing in the

midterms. they say that is an indication of the fact that they believe these polls are not indicative of what we can expect from voters at the polls -- i mean, when they actually go to vote. the question becomes, andrea, is there a growing concern about some of these gaffs. he seems to confuse iraq with ukraine. i spoke to a white house official about that who downplayed that. look, presidents spend a lot of time talking. there will be moment wlz they confuse words. this has happened to every president in modern history. really trying to downplay those moments. there's no doubt those moments will be under heavy scrutiny. the president's strategy for countering all of that is to try to downplay it through these very lighthearted moments. we will see how effective that is. of course, he just touched down in chicago where he is going to put the focus on his economic policies. the white house says that's what they want to focus on, his

policies, what he plans to do with his second term. >> jim, you were a white house deputy chief of staff, you know how campaigns deal with these things. i covered the ronald reagan campaign. we remember that second debate after he had been meandering in the first and his humor about his age. >> i will not make age an issue of this campaign. i am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience. >> that literally changed the narrative the very next day after he had some really troubling headlines for the campaign. can joe biden do the same? >> absolutely. in politics, you either play offense or defense.

the administration is very smartly playing offense on the age issue in two ways. one, the self-deprecating humor, which i love. i think it's super smart. second, they are saying, yes, he is experienced. look at the historic amount of things this guy got done because he has this experience. i don't believe a race against donald trump next year -- donald trump is three years younger -- this is going to be a huge issue. it's an issue because we are comparing joe biden to the almighty. next year when we compare him to donald trump, that will be different. >> if donald trump is the nominee, which he is a prohibitive frontrunner right now. the president's approval is 43%. that's not enough to win a general election in most cases. there's another 10% who only, quote, somewhat disapprove of joe biden. they could play a major role in a potential biden/trump rematch

if trump is the nominee. >> sure. to pick up where jim left off, the other thing that decides elections is the contrast. that's largely jim's point. joe biden in a generic poll, do you favor or unfavor, what's your opinion of his handling of the economy, foreign policy, those numbers are important. a campaign pays attention to them. you want to be in the net positive. square up joe biden against a donald trump or a ron desantis and ask the person people, who do you trust to lead the nation for the next four years? joe biden promised to bring to the white house a presidency that was based on experience, re-establishing a steady hand in the white house, a presidency that reflected values and could show america we could get past the unsteady, arguably dangerous era of donald trump's presidency. joe biden delivered that. that will be the case he makes in contrast to donald trump, as the nominee again, or a

youthful, inexperienced ron desantis. >> there's growing indicators that donald trump might skip the first republican debate in milwaukee this august. our colleagues are reporting that trump might plan his own counterprogramming. as he did during the party's final debate in 2016. does trump have anything to gain by showing up? >> this is not all together a surprise. he has been signaling this, he has been teasing this for some time. from his perspective, he is the strong frontrunner at this point. this is the first debate in what will be a long series of debates. i have been told in talking to sources close to former president trump some advisers are telling him to sit this is out. to watch the competition and to come back with the second and third debate, for example, with strong retorts to what will undoubtedly be a lot of criticism of his record, although not of his legal challenges. so far, his challenge is walking a fine line when it comes to that.

>> thanks to all of you. power play. new reporting on who was in the crosshairs during the rebellion in russia. who knew about the revolt before it was launched? the man who has led the pentagon and cia in the past, leon panetta joining us with more on that next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." ext. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." r powermop. an all-in-one cleaning tool that gives you a mop and bucket clean in half the time. our new cleaning pad has hundreds of scrubbing strips- that absorb and lock dirt away, ( ♪♪ ) and it has a 360-degree swivel head- that goes places a regular mop just can't. so, you can clean your home faster than ever. don't mop harder, mop smarter, with the new swiffer powermop. i'll always take care of you. ♪ i'm gonna hold you forever... ♪

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wagner group leader yevgeny prigozhin planned to capture the two russian military leaders he has been opposing as part of the aborted mutiny. russian intelligence found out about the plot before it was to be executed. this according to "the wall street journal's" reporting. kristin welker asked the president whether prigozhin planned to capture russian military leaders. he said, quote, that remains to be seen.

tony blinken appearing today on "morning joe" was asked about putin's weaknesses. >> you had a direct challenge to putin's authority from prigozhin. >> does a weakened vladimir putin and a divided russian military help ukraine? >> to the extent that moscow is distracted by its own internal divisions, that may help. to the extent the wagner forces themselves are no longer on the front lines, that could help, because they have been effective. they literally throw people into a meat grinder of putin's own making. that's had some affect. >> joining me now is leon panetta, former defense secretary and cia director in the obama administration, former white house chief of staff to president clinton and i should say in welcoming you, happy birthday, mr. secretary.

thanks for spending part of that birthday with us. >> thank you, andrea. i've reached the stage when i don't count anymore. >> you may not be counting, but we had a whole segment talking about the age issue with joe biden. you are a walking advertisement in defiance of that issue. congratulations. >> thank you. >> let's start with whatblinken. he talked about the cracks in the kremlin. what does this mean for putin's future? >> there's no question that putin has been weakened. you had a coup that threatened to basically disrupt what was happening in russia. any leader wants to have stability and control and order,

particularly an autocrat. it does undermine his projection of authority in russia. there's no question he has been weakened by it. he is going to try to survive. he is surviving largely by continuing to lie about what really took place here and what really happened. it remains to be seen whether ultimately all of this is going to catch up with him. >> there's also, of course, division in the military. what is your reaction to the report in the "wall street journal" that wagner group leader prigozhin planned to capture military leaders? >> didn't surprise me. prigozhin has been pretty outspoken for a long period of time. to some extent, look, i think putin is paying a price for what he created here. after all, it was putin who established the wagner group, who gave prigozhin the money to be able to do the things he was

doing. he deployed him to asia, to africa, to the ukraine. and yet when prigozhin began to be very critical of putin and the military and the leadership in russia, putin didn't do very much. then when he tried to bring the wagner group into the russian army, the military, that's when prigozhin basically conducted the coup. putin bears a lot of blame here for what happened. the real question is whether or not at this point having labeled these people traitors but not taken any action against them at all, whether that ultimately is going to come back to haunt him. >> "the new york times" is reporting that belarus, lukashenko is the leader, who is a creature of putin, is now

saying openly that putin suggested killing prigozhin but that lukashenko urged him to avoid that, avoid a rough response. first of all, lukashenko is speaking out like this sends a certain signal. your thoughts about that? but also, is prigozhin really on a very short leash? >> well, again, you know, you have autocrats here basically trying to now tell their story according to their particular viewpoint. lukashenko is doing exactly that. he is showing that in many ways he was a hero here, that he was able to talk to putin, that he was able to talk to prigozhin. prigozhin wanted to be able to capture the two leaders in russia and have them turned over to him. lukashenko said, that's just not going to happen. there's probably no question that lukashenko did play a role

here in trying to calm down putin who probably wanted to kill prigozhin and try to give both of them a little room to try to be able to pull back from the brink. that's what's happened. but unfortunately, the real causes here of what resulted in this coup, the wagner group, prigozhin, putin's inability to gain control of that, all of that remains a reality that tells me that this remains still a very unpredictable situation in russia. >> with a weakened putin, i know we're talking about earlier about whether this actually plays to ukraine's benefit, but could it also prompt putin to become more aggressive if that's possible, and to be even worse using his air power and his advantage to go after ukraine?

>> well, it's the old story of a wounded tiger. right now, putin is wounded by virtue of what happened here with this coup. he is going to try to do everything necessary to try to prove that he is still in control and he is still in charge. if that means taking some kind of bold action, whether it's in the ukraine or elsewhere, he is going to try to do that. on the other hand, he also has to be careful. if he does something stupid and adds to his problems, it could very well spell the end of his regime in russia. yeah, it's a threat. we have to watch him closely as to how he reacts. but at the same time, i don't think putin is going to walk off a cliff by doing something that would really undermine his ability to maintain power in russia.

>> of course, the other major player is china. they had so much invested in putin. he was here this morning -- secretary blinken was here this morning and we asked him about china. what is your impression of their time line, president xi's time line regarding invading or trying to take over taiwan? cia director burns said it would be within the next five years. he said that a year ago. president xi has his third term. is that more imminent? >> the main concern that we have had with beijing's approach to taiwan is that it seems bent on changing the status quo that's prevailed for more than 50 years and has been a successful part of the relationship that we had with china, making sure we could maintain peace and stability across the taiwan strait, making sure any differences were resolved peacefully, that no one on either side engaged in any

unilateral effort to change the status quo. we have had concerns going back to 2016, not just the last months, that china was acting more aggressively when it comes to taiwan. we had a very direct, very lengthy conversation about this. they have concerns about our policy. i clarified to the extent it needed to be clarified that our policy hasn't changed. we abide by and stick to the longstanding one china policy. >> as a former defense secretary, how do you feel about the fact that china has not restored military to military communications? we have that with russia, even most recently. >> it's a concern. i recognize that there was an effort here, and it was an important effort to try to re-establish some kind of dialogue with china. i think we were successful in doing that. i think secretary blinken took the right steps in trying to see if we could try to maintain better relationships. but it's also clear that china

is not fully opening their arms to that relationship. and the fact that they haven't established communication on the military side concerns me, because that's the one place where any kind of miscalculation, any kind of stupid decision that's made by somebody who is either flying a reconnaissance plane or moving a destroyer across an area in the south china sea, if that mistake is made and there's no ability to communicate and try to cool things down, then it could result in an even greater conflict. i hope that we are able, ultimately, to re-establish those lines of communication. look, right now i think the greatest deterrent to china doing anything in taiwan, greatest deterrent is what's happening in ukraine and what just happened to putin with this

coup. i think xi is going to be very careful about taking any steps that could jeopardize his control in china. >> leon panetta, as always, thank you very much. happy birthday. >> thank you. it's the economy ahead of next year's election, president biden hitting the road to push his plan to grow jobs and lower inflation. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. e waa mitchell reports" on msnbc with skyrizi to treat my skin and joints, i'm getting into my groove. ♪(uplifting music)♪ along with significantly clearer skin... skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi 90% clearer skin

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they say it's all about the economy and shortly president biden is going to try to take control of his narrative on the economy in chicago. embracing what some have dubbed bidenomics. reaganomics focused on the trickle down theory. joining me is antonio delgato. it's great to meet you virtually. thank you for being here. >> good to be with you. >> house speaker mccarthy just tweeted calling bidenomics an economic disaster. trying to turn it against him. just as biden's predecessor flipped the term obamacare to his advantage. how does president biden plan to embrace bidenomics? >> it's important for folks to

understand what ultimately this is about is making sure rather than focusing on trickle down economics where we hope that if we give big tax breaks to the super rich and wealthy and big corporations, somehow it will make its way down to everyday americans, a flawed policy that has proven to fail. the new way forward is to create economic growth from the ground up. that means investment in infrastructure. that means investment in manufacturing. that means investment in green energy. growing the economy in that way creates actual jobs that pay good wages that are union oriented. they are sustainable for the foreseeable future. this is the work of the future. this is the type of economic plan that can close economic inequality as opposed to exacerbating it as we saw with the tax cuts proposed by trump and ultimately enacted, which added $2 trillion to our deficit. the vast majority of the benefit

going to the top 1%. these are the types of policies that are proven to be failing. ultimately, if we're going to close economic inequality, create a more just and fair society, one that provides opportunity for everyone, we have to invest. whether it's the infrastructure bill, whether it's the chips act, inflation reduction act, all of this is geared towards creating jobs and good paying jobs that are sustainable. >> lieutenant governor, the story is good. he has a good economic story to tell. inflation is trending down. >> 11 straight months. >> gdp is up. it's not translating to the polls. you have good jobs numbers. how does he try to persuade people when they are not feeling it and actually the core inflation is still a problem, which is the inflation that people see at the grocery store. >> listen, i think the inflation numbers, they are steady on the

decline 11 straight months. that's a good trend line. we have robust investment in green technology. the general public, as more projects come online in the infrastructure space, as more and more people benefit from investment in clean water infrastructure, benefit from investment in affordable high speed broadband access, which is a basic necessity in the 21st century, more and more people benefit from driving down paved roads and bridges that aren't crumbling and have good paying jobs, these things take time to unfold. what we are seeing is this investment coming back online. ultimately, we will see more and more success in that regard. it's incumbent upon us to communicate that to the public, to make sure we are highlighting the success stories. take, for example, the chips act and what it has done for central

new york. we have the largest chip manufacturing plant being built right here in new york. $100 billion invested over the next 20 years. tens of thousands of jobs being created. we are bringing manufacturing back, domestic production back to america. the president is ensuring that the materials that we are using for infrastructure are made in america. this is a critical, critical step forward. it's the way forward if we're going to actually create economic growth for everybody. >> the issue is to try to persuade people. a lot of those achievements are down the road. i under the challenge. >> it takes investment, a commitment. that's what he is doing. >> he has got people like you speaking out for him. we appreciate your you coming on today. thank you very much. >> my pleasure. thanks for having me. the warning signs, donald trump's chief antagonist in the republican party telling democrats not to underestimate

his push to return to the white house while urging voertz on the right to reject the former president. that's coming next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. mitchell reports." this is msnbc.

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yesterday and issued a warning to republicans and democrats. >> if the republican party continues down this path and moves towards, for example, nominating donald trump for the presidency, you know, i think that we have seen day after day after day the party go further and further down this path of not being salvageable. it's really important for democrats to take him seriously. you know, there could be a tendency i see sometimes for people on the democratic side to say, well, look, look, sure, yo, the republicans will nominate him. the republicans are a mess, but we'll be able to beat him in a general. and that is playing with fire. it's a risk we can't take. >> cheney yesterday also saying that republicans are, quote, electing idiots, and when asked about a presidential run of her own, she said she would not do anything that would help donald trump.

but left it sort of ambiguous. and joining me now, nbc news 2024 and capitol hill correspondent ali vitali on the campaign trail in new hampshire, and "politico" white house correspondent eugene daniels. so liz cheney calling on republicans to reject trump, but his lead only grew after the latest poll following the indictment. and speaker mccarthy is falling in line again after saying he was not the strongest of candidates in a general election, and he ended up doing a breitbart interview, and then fund-raising on his support for donald trump, and doing that without donald trump's permission incurring the wrath of the former president. >> reporter: yeah, look, nothing really underscores what the former congresswoman is saying about the state of her party in relation to the former president like what we're seeing from speaker kevin mccarthy just over the last 24 hours. on cnbc initially, his comments were wondering if trump were the

strongest in the field to go ahead into the general election in 2024. within hours we saw him, as you mentioned, reverse that according to "the new york times" calling the former president himself, and then of course those fund-raising text messages in trump's name. for mccarthy, though, i think what's important to remember since cheney left the republican conference it has only become more aligned in the mold of donald trump. the fact that her message hasn't changed since you and i and all of us were covering her on the january 6th committee, her message even about a potential presidential run is still the same, saying that she's not going to do it if it means helping trump. but i think for cheney and some of the other people who are sort of lingering on the sidelines right now, will they get in, won't they get in. i'm thinking of, for example, glenn youngkin, the governor of virginia, those are people who are going to wait until the fall, see what these debates look like, see where governor desantis is at and see if anything has moved at all. you look at the polls, and i know they're not predictive at

this point because it's early, but trump still has a real base of coalesced support, and he's regularly at the top of all these polls. >> and eugene, brad raffensperger just finished his interview with the special counsel jack smith, which led to the second impeachment vote and the committee which cheney was co-leading. here's what he said after in a statement after working with the -- talking to the special prosecutors. georgia is a national leader in election security, integrity, and access. failed candidates and their enablers have peddled false narratives about our elections for personal gain for a long time, and the voters of georgia aren't buying it. so that's a very tough statement against donald trump and the whole january 6th election

challenge. how were you reading this? >> yeah, that's not a guy that went in there and said nice things about donald trump, if he's saying that publicly, what he said privately is probably even harsher, right? and the politics of where this race is, this is a great example of where the legal aspects for donald trump lay at this point. he is someone who has all of these different cases that are pointed directly at him. he's been indicted twice. this is another investigation by special counsel jack smith, and raffensperger has been kind of a republican that people were hoping might run this time around because of the fact that he -- he's in a swing state like georgia. he is someone that has been antagonistic towards donald trump and still has won re-election at the same time. that was them hoping for a blueprint on how to do that is someone who throughout his time when he was secretary of state,

you know, we call it standing up to them. truly he was just doing his job, right? donald trump called him and asked him to go look for about 11,000 more votes than just one more vote than he needed to win it for them to flip the state. and raffensperger said no, and i think that is something that is going to stay around. it also shows on this investigation of law that this is what we would call like a big fish, raffensperger, he's someone that you would want to talk to after you dotted i's and crossed some t's. it also seems that the jack smith investigation is continuing to heat up and that might be moving much quicker on the other, and i think, you know, it is not going to matter these indictments, these legal woes unless these other candidates that are in there, not just raffensperger, not people like cheney who are actually going to be on the stage with are trump possibly, they have not done that yet. >> thanks very much to both of you, ali vitali, eugene daniels, and that does it for this

edition of "andrea mitchell reports." remember follow us online on facebook and on twitter @mitchellreports. thanks for being with us today. chris jansing reports starts after a short break. ris jansings after a short break. there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here. not so much here. if you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga can help you keep living life. ♪ farxiga ♪ and farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections in women and men, and low blood sugar. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death. a rare life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. farxiga can help you keep living life.

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a very good afternoon to all of you. i'm alex witt in for chris jansing hear at msnbc world headquarters in new york city. vanishing in smoke and