good to be with you. i'm katy tur. do not sleep on jack smith or his office which looks to be working double time, gearing up for trial in the classified

documents case against donald trump, while also continue to go investigate the january 6th case. and on that, we have news. brad raffensperger, and rudy giuliani have now both been interviewed by prosecutors in the special counsel's office. one presumably talking about the receiving end of donald trump's alleged attempts to overturn the election results, the other the one who was allegedly help donald trump do the overturning. what could the georgia secretary of state tell jack smith's team, and what could the president'sf? we imagine their versions of events are quite different. so what might be the overlap. joyce vance is here to line it up for us. she'll also help us sort through news on the documents indictment, questions on why bedminster was not searched by the fbi. and how donald trump's latest defense that what you heard in that audio tape was all bravado might hold up in court. joining me now, nbc news justice

reporter, ryan reilly, and nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard with me in new york. tell us about brad raffensperger's interview. >> i was going through some of the individuals who have appeared before this grand jury at this point, and given what we know publicly, and the tape, the audio is the best thing you can refer to in this instance about donald trump trying and putting pressure on brad raffensperger to basically hand over the electoral college votes to the person who lost the state i think is the strongest evidence here, so, you know, i don't necessarily think he had to appear before the grand jury because of the available evidence that was already on the table, publicly available. play that audio before the grand jury, that sort of serves the same purpose but i'm curious to find out what exactly this discussion was about. it doesn't seem like we're going to get a ton more out of the

secretary of state's office. this could be forward planning about when they might need him. if this were to ever go to a trial, i think he would be one of the star witnesses in this case. you know, you have to bring in somebody to introduce that evidence. you have to put someone on the stand and confirm that this evidence was real, that this is how the conversation went and this was, you know, valid. i think that he could be a key witness, potentially if it gets to that point going forward. given the number of people we have seen appear before the grand jury already, i think, koun, july could be a good bet when we could see some of this come to fruition. >> let's talk about rudy giuliani, what might he have been talking to the special counsel's office about. i know there's the brad raffensperger, and rudy giuliani was involved in a broad effort across the country to change things. >> we don't know the scope of the special counsel's intent, whether it's targets donald trump or targeting the entire web around donald trump, including rudy giuliani.

that's why it's notable, an aide to giuliani telling me they met with prosecutors voluntarily, and it was conducted in a professional manner. rudy giuliani is such an interesting figure because he was a part of essentially every single wind up, the focus points of the special counsel's investigation down to the fact that he along with sidney powell, john eastman, that were representing donald trump legally and being paid by that save america pac, the fact is there are questions from the january 6th committee's work that we know is publicly available that rudy giuliani acknowledged that the voting machines, dominion machines didn't change the outcome of the election, but at the time, before january 6th, he was touting and filing lawsuits, and raising money for save america pac that he was getting paid for out of the election conspiracy theories. the question is what did rudy giuliani know, did he know, in fact, these were false

allegations of praud. refugee rudy giuliani was part of all of the conversations, to what extent has he shared conversations with prosecutor . >> tell me how rudy giuliani and brad raffensperger overlap in particular? >> rudy giuliani, we know from the beginning of this, he was a target of the investigation. we have seen court documents that showed they were looking for communications that other parties that got received subpoenas or having with rudy giuliani. so, you know, this idea of this being a voluntary meeting isn't the clearing the deck sort of scenario that i think rudy giuliani and his team are suggests. you don't typically bring a potential target before a grand jury because that's not fair to them, right? you don't force them to testify or use testimony that might be used against him. when we get closer to the calls about whether or not you're going to charge someone.

rudy giuliani is not in the clear here. we don't know the extent of where the investigation is head obviously, and we would nefrt never get ahead of that. he's someone that clearly prosecutors are very interested in. >> let me read a statement from raffensperger about this interview. he says georgia is a national leader in election security, integrity and access. failed candidates and their enablers have peddled false narratives about our elections for penl gain for a long time, and the voters of georgia are not buying it. he does not say donald trump's name. he does not say refugee rudy giuliani -- rudy giuliani's name there. we heard that audio of donald trump talking about a classified document, and it sounded like he was showing it to the people in the room. he was asked about it yet again, and he has yet another response.

>> did you think a golf course would be a part of this? because donald trump -- >> i suspend all of my predictions with donald trump. >> donald trump, of course, the audio recording. donald trump is suggesting that there were potentially iran counter attack plans that he was supposedly showing. that's on the audio tape. when asked specifically yesterday what he was referring to when he said plans, he said, wait, what about plans, and then went on to say, well, the plans i was talking about are building plans, and plans for golf courses here. i'm not one to determine whether donald trump was talking about his golf courses or not. all i know is this is the latest in ten months of him, after august of 2022 suggesting that the fbi planted tumts at his mar-a-lago estate to now he has attack plans, this is a tough position he's putting his own legal counsel in, and very well

would be a key suggestion as to why donald trump has had a hard time retaining counsel in this investigation. >> a diplomatic way to say it would be an evolution of answers. joining me now is former u.s. attorney and msnbc legal analyst, joyce vance, we have audio of donald trump responding to the audio of himself. let's play this sound byte. >> i had a whole desk full of lots of papers, and mostly newspaper articles. copies of magazines, copies of stories. having to do with many many subjects. and what was said was absolutely fine, and very perfectly. we did nothing wrong. this is a whole hoax gl you're not concerned with your voice on those recordings? >> my voice was fine. what did i say wrong on those recordings. >> reporter: are there any recordings we should be concerned with? >> i don't know of any

recordings you should be concerned with. i don't do things wrong. >> it was bravado if you want to know the truth. what i'm referring to is magazines, newspapers, plans of buildings. et cetera et cetera. i don't have classified documents is what he went on to say. does this explanation, defense that he is putting out there, that it was bravado, hold up in court? >> when your defense is you lied. when you're saying it's bravado, that's what you're saying, i lied, i made it up. it's not a great defense in a court of law. trump is used to getting away with shifting stories to fit the known facts in the court of public opinion. it won't work in front of a jury or judge. when you listen to the most

recent shift in his story, the tone is weak, it's very low energy. when you compare the statement, the jury will be able to hear and watch trump make, and compare to the earlier tapes, it is very clear that it's a fabrication that he's trying to deal with the facts that are known and come up with something newscast a defense and still legit mates his conduct. what he ends up saying is i'm a legitimate person. everything i did was perfect, but a jury will see and hear the evidence to the contrary. >> let me ask you about bedminster, that audio was reporting at bedminster, a portion of the indictment talks about boxes being taken to bedminster. it raises the question of why bedminster wasn't among those properties that were searched by the fbi. do you have an idea of why that might be? >> yeah, i think it's a really important question. when you think about the context here, we are talking about top secret documents, the government's most important

secrets, so the ground rule has to be that the fbi would have wanted to retrieve any documents that were sitting around. that leads us to conclude that the reason they didn't search is they lacked probable cause, and when you're developing probable cause to get a search warrant, you mitch mcconnell have to have reason to believe that evidence of a crime will be found in the location you want to search in, that evidence has to be fresh. fresh is a flexible term in some cases. the drugs need to have been there within the last, roughly week, a few days. they're so easy to move. with documents, courts will give prosecutors a little bit longer, but we're looking at this tape of a meeting in july of 2021, roughly. jack smith doesn't become the special counsel until november of the following year. we're not sure exactly when he got this tape, and when prosecutors began to focus on

bedminster. unless they had something fresher, it could have been tough to get a search warrant. >> i have two other questions on the january 6th investigation, and one of them is that the audio recording where donald trump is talking to brad raffensperger and asking him to find the number of votes he needs to win that state, is there wiggle room for trump in the language that he used on that call? it has been described as a slam dunk call. obviously people have said donald trump was telling brad raffensperger to pak up these -- make up these votes and let them win the state. is the audio clear or will there be a defense for donald trump's team there? >> ultimately that's a question that's up to a jury how they will view the tape. of course when you're donald trump, there's always wiggle room, even where it doesn't exist reasonably, we know he's going to manufacture it. this tape has always seemed very

clear in context. you don't just listen to the tape, in which case you could parse the words and trump might be able to say, i thought there were missing boxes of documents. in the context of pushing the big lie and when you listen in its entirety, where trump alternatively cajoles and threatened raffensperger, ultimately prosecutors have a strong argument to make to a jury that this is about perpetrating fraud, trying to win an election that trump had clearly lost when the votes were cancelled, it's criminal, not innocuous or legitimate. >> rudy giuliani was acting as donald trump's lawyer, filing cases to challenge results of elections. is there a scenario where just filing a case could be considered wrong doing if you're a lawyer? are you allowed to file anything? >> there are civil matters and there are criminal matters. if you file a frivolous lawsuit,

as a lawyer, you can be sanctioned by the court for filing that frivolous lawsuit. it is touch to view merely filing a lawsuit as an act of criminality. it might provide context for other conduct by giuliani. if all he had done was to file a lawsuit, then it's very unlikely that he would have become a subject of a criminal investigation. >> joyce thanks, that's not all he's accused of doing. appreciate you coming on and talking to us. >> exactly. carte dug himself a hole and kept on digging. what donald trump's team reportedly thought about the speaker's attempt to clean up his comment that trump might not be the strongest 2024 candidate for the gop. plus, who knew what when. new reporting on what a top russian general knew about yevgeny prigozhin's plans. and what do you do when most americans say you are too old to

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get exactly what you want, only pay for what you need. act now and get it for $25 when you bring your phones. it's your verizon. house speaker kevin mccarthy has been doing damage control since monday when he questioned whether donald trump was the gop's strongest candidate in 2024. team trump was reportedly so angry, mccarthy thought it necessary to call the former president to apologize according to several sources who spoke with the "new york times." mccarthy followed that call with a breitbart interview where he said trump is stronger today than he was in 2017. sources familiar said mccarthy's clean up was not enough, and to make matters worse, the speaker stepped in it defend. joining me now is nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles. what did he step in? >> reporter: well, it depends which part of this you're

talking about, katy, but the most recent part of it is after suggesting donald trump probably wasn't the strongest candidate, kevin mccarthy went on to tell breitbart, he thought he was in a stronger position than he was in the 2016 race, and then used this idea of him being the strongest candidate in a fundraising missive, which is something the trump team does not take kindly to, unless there's express written approval for the trump team to do it. kevin mccarthy has found himself on the wrong side of donald trump in the past 24 hours. it becomes a bigger problem for kevin mccarthy down the road because so much of the house republican caucus follows donald trump as their north satellite and radar. if a handful give kevin mccarthy as we have seen them do several times throughout his young speakership, that could make his life very difficult as we head into budget negotiations when they return back from recess, and then into the fall.

>> let me ask you about that because we have talked in the past about the small group of gop lawmakers who have been holding up legislation, refusing to let things go with the rules committee. this was their way of punishing kevin mccarthy for compromising with president biden on the debt deal. one of the rules was passed for a bill that republicans or the people on conservative said wanted about guns. do we have an indication of whether other legislation will be able to get out of the rules committee when they come back? >> at this point, katy, they seem to have reached some sort of compromise, where as long as they like the legislation, they'll allow the process to move forward. they also really want to use the power of the house republican conference to provide air cover for donald trump, and some of that may be uncomfortable, not only for kevin mccarthy, but those in districts where president biden won in 2020. take a look at the list of the

things that republicans from the freedom caucus and others would like to put through. they would like to expunge the impeachments of donald trump. they want to punish many democratic critics. they have censured adam schiff, there's talk of censuring someone like bennie thompson, the carry of the january 6th select committee. they're talking about impeachment of merrick garland, and alejandro mayorkas, the dh secretary. that's all on the tables for hem, and using the tools o. investigative committees, judiciary committee, to kind of, a, duoafter the current president, and also try and create legal executions for the former president donald trump as well. you'll notice that that long list of things, these priorities of the republican conference that i mentioned, katy, have nothing to do with passing legislation, right? it has nothing to do with

getting a budget over the finish hin. -- line. they're really just political messaging efforts by the republicans in the house of representatives and that's going become a problem for kevin mccarthy because they have to pass a budget by the end of september. he's going to have to compromise, have some of his guys take tough votes. the question is when they have to do something substantiative. the republicans in biden districts. ryan nobles, thank you so much. coming up next, vladimir putin survived prigozhin's rebillion. the biggest threat to his power two years of rule. does that make him stronger or weaker as russia's leader. plus, what message the white house is sending by keeping hunter biden very much in the public like. g hunter biden very much in the eye. public like. eye. ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists.

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. 11 people are dead including three children from a missile strike on a pizza parlor in kre kramatorsk, according to ukrainian officials. hitting multiple sites across the city, leaving 56 more injured. one witness says the attack came out of nowhere, no sirens, no warning, no time to take shelter. this attack is part of what

russia fears, what russia watchers fear that vladimir putin embarrassed by the wagner group's march to moscow will escalate brutality in ukraine, especially with news that one of his top russian generals may have known about yevgeny prigozhin's plans, according to reporting from the "new york times." joining me now from ukraine is raf sanchez. no sirens, no warning, how unusual is an attack that doesn't trigger the warning signs? >> reporter: well, katy, ukrainian officials are saying it is not a coincidence that this russian missile strike came as the kremlin is trying to regain footing following this weekend's rebellion. we heard from president zelenskyy a little bit earlier. he says ukraine is very closely following the arrival of prigozhin in neighboring belarus, which is just about 30 miles from where we are now. he said ukraine doesn't have any

indication that prigozhin is bringing a large mercenary force with him. but that they are taking all necessary precautions and we spoke earlier to the man in charge of some of those precautions. he's the governor of the region. >> what's your message to prigozhin or any other russian leader if they're thinking of trying to invade here. >> do not enter the territory, we will kill you here. we will defend our land, every meter of our land and the consequences for all russians that come to the region will be horrible. >> reporter: in terms of that missile strike in kramatorsk, the death toll has been rising all day. it's up to eleven, among the dead, twin sisters, anna and yuliya, they were 14 years old, just finished their school year, heading into the summer holiday, they were at the pizza restaurant, very popular in the city, with their family when the

missiles struck, and witnesses are saying there was no warning. >> raf sanchez, thank you very much, and joining me now is puck founding partner and war correspondent julia ioffe, let's talk about what this means for vladimir putin. in some respects this makes him stronger, surviving this attempt by prigozhin. why is that? prigozhin was the most powerful, most visible enemy he had for a long time, and i think it's no surprise that other people in the elite, in the defense ministry apparently knew about the plan. and the fact that he backed down, again, we don't know what really happened, but the fact that he backed down, that he has now taken this plea deal is in belarus with the fighters who followed him, again, it removes him from the playing field, and it's unclear who else would be a

potential rival to putin. in the wake of such an attempted coup, it's clear putin is going to attempt to purge the various military structures and security service structures to get rid of any potential rivals. a coup is a wonderful opportunity, and his very good friend erdogan can tell him all about that. >> so you think that what might happen with, i don't know, somebody who might have known about the attack beforehand might not come at this moment. it might come a little bit down the line. what about what happens to sergei shoigu? >> well, he was awarded with a new medal yesterday at a ceremony at the kremlin, which is putin's very clear way of telegraphing that he doesn't do anything that somebody demands of him publicly with the use of force. he does things on his own schedule, and if you demand things of him in that way, he is absolutely sure to do the

opposite. that said, i could totally see shoygu resigning, allegedly on his own a few months from now or a year from now, and making it seem like it had absolutely nothing to do with prigozhin's demand, but the fact that prigozhin demanded it, that he attempted a march on moscow to fulfill that demand is pretty much means that he's here to stay for a little while. >> can you bring us into the mindset of the russian people, you know, how they interpret the events of the past week? >> it's hard to say. it's a very closed society now full of fear. i think a lot of people in moscow, for example, had to make a choice, at least in their minds, as prigozhin was bearing down on moscow, it became clear to them, that even if before they had never had to choose between prigozhin, who was an arm of the state and putin, with

prigozhin bearing down on the capital with 25,000 hard-earned fighters, many of whom were criminals, former criminals are, they had to make a choice, and it's very clear, i think, that for a lot of them, putin was the devil they knew. they had gotten used to his regime. they had figured out a way to work around with it, to live with it. prigozhin had brought something new and brutal and unpredictable. i think that's another reason putin becomes stronger after this is that people once faced with this reality realized this is not a good alternative. >> he's known as a rapist and a murderer, according to your reporting. and you said something who said they spoke with putin, better than rapists and murderers. julia, thank you very much for joining us. we appreciate it. >> thank you, katy. coming up next, we can't

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think about it. i know i'm 198 years old. >> after all, i believe in the first amendment, not just because my good friend jimmy madison wrote it. >> i know i look like i'm still 29. by the way, i have been doing this a long time. i know i don't look that old. i know. i'm a little under 103. >> i was there for that jimmy madison joke, it was indeed funny. it might be the single greatest threat to his bid for reelection, his age, but in recent months, joe biden, the president has made his age a punch line, as you saw with jokes putting him anywhere at 93, 29 even, to 270. joining me now is chief "new york times," peter baker. jeffrey cat zenberg said harrison ford is still a super

star in his 80s. it sound like maybe the white house is getting that message? >> yeah, i mean, of course harrison ford has the advantage of really good special effects people, right. the president is trying to lean into it a little bit. he's been taking a page more from ronald reagan than harrison ford by making a joke out of it. of course, reagan stumbled in his 1984 reelection campaign, made a joke about it in his second debate with walter mondale, i won't take advantage of my opponent's youth and inexperience. people laughed. and biden is trying to diffuse the issue of age by making something of a punch line, self-deprecating, that's obviously hopeful on some level. we'll see if it makes a difference. polls suggest a great deal among many americans, including many democrats. for every joke he tells, there's an odd moment where people are looking at him saying is that an age related thing or just joe biden.

>> i want to put up polling, you mentioned the concerns. here is what our polling says about voters' concerns on biden's mental and physical health. 68% say they are concerned. 55% say they have major concerns. those are not great numbers. when you talk to, and i know you have had conversations as well. i've had conversations with democratic fundraisers who will come out of meetings with joe biden and say they are a little nervous with him running for president again, and they're nervous about what might happen. the white house hasn't directly responded to those nervy questions, but they're out there. >> they are out there, and they're pretty widespread. i think people in the white house would like to think it's just the media obsessing about it. the president at that dinner, in fact, we had a joke about the only people who cared about his age is "the new york times." the truth is, as you say, every time i talk to a democratic

operative, the white house will say, look, that's fine, okay, we get it, but let's talk about a track record, right, lots of important legislation, running the iraq war in effect from washington pretty successfully. you know, and, in fact, when compared to donald trump people will swallow whatever concerns they have about his age because it's certainly better than the alternative. that's the white house theory of the case, and there's something to be said for that. you're right, there's a lot of nervousness among democrats right now, and it's hard to put that to the side. >> let's bring in mike memoli. you're getting a whiff of bad air out there, cotalk to us. tell us about the white house's acknowledgment of age being an issue. >> reporter: katy this is not necessarily turning a liability into an asset.

about making lemonade out of lemons as one white house official put it to me last year, short of a time machine, there's nothing we can do about the fact that the president is 80 years old. the president sets a record as the oldest president in american history, and so what we've seen, though, is -- and peter is right to cite the ronald reagan example, self-deprecation is a winning formula in politics, the white house, to the extent this is a formal strategy to make light of the president's age to diffuse it with humor. it began last november as the president was about to turn 80 that we saw, of course, that moment at the correspondents dinner where it was most conspicuously written for the president to make that joke. but what's so interesting to me about is that so many of the settings in which the president has made these jokes lately, it's unscripted, him understanding what gets a good response from the crowd and leaning into it. it's something we have begun to see him do more and more, the president likes to respond to a crowd, and he senses this is

something that eliminates a point of tension with an audience, especially in a speech he may have made a gaffe of some kind or stuttered a bit in a way that draws attention to his age. this is something that i think we'll continue to see going forward, especially one of the settings, katy, where he's made this joke a lot is in fund raise ers and the president is in one after the bidenomics speech. >> explain his track record on the economy. >> reporter: it's interesting because we continue to see this disconnect between public polls that show the president's approval rating under water. that shows americans have a dim view of the direction of the country with what the white house thinks is a strong, legislative record of success, especially if you stack it up against his predecessors, and also some good economic data, right, that doesn't necessarily translate. this was an effort not necessarily to do what we have seen a lot lately. the president added infrastructure event, a ground

breaking or jobs announcement from a major tech giant as they use the c.h.i.p.s and science act. to comprehensively put all of what the president has done through his time in office into a speech that speaks to his political philosophy, right, they're calling it bidenomics which invokes, reaganomics, we have begun to reverse 40 decades of economic policy. this is his view growing the economy from the middle out and bottom up, is what he likes to say. >> let me ask you about hunter biden, cbs news, another interview with the irs whistleblower talking about limitations, he alleges were placed on the investigation into hunter biden. the white house has denied this. merrick garland has denied this. hunter biden has not been laying low. he's been very public. most recently at that state dinner with the indian prime minister, just the other night. what's the strategy there? >> exactly right. i don't know if it's a strategy, but it's definitely a message. the message from at least the president of the united states, i'm not going to shy away from

my son just because of these political issues and legal issues. remember, the state dinner came two days after hunter biden agreed to a plea deal where he would plead guilty to two tax misdemeanors and not contest a gun charge that ultimately would be disposed of through a diversion program with good behavior the next couple of years. but rather than keep a low profile, he shows up at the state dinner in a tux. he's not just at the dinner, he's quite the man about town, working the room, shaking hands, hugging people. there's a message to be sent here, a message that president biden seems to be saying is a defiant one. we're not going to, you know, abandon family because of all of this. there are some democrats who are nervous about it. they think that was a little brazen, a little unnecessary, poking the bear for no particular reason. it generated the predictable republican criticism, and the question is does hunter biden actually pose a real liability next year or is it just sort of an obsession of conservative

media and republican lawmakers. >> peter baker, mike memoli, gentlemen, thank you very much, and as we mentioned, president biden is in chicago today for a speech on the economy. tonight stephanie ruhle silts -- sits down with treasury secretary janet yellen, watch the 11th hour tonight at 11:00 p.m. eastern. coming up, guess what city this is, smoke from canada's wildfires is blowing back down over the united states. where it is right now, and where it is going next. where it is right now, and where it is going next

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few spots because of ozone. the worst of it is in the areas of wisconsin heading down through the midwest, it is now blowing through areas of kentucky, also through ohio. some of it has arrived in washington, d.c. you'll see it in your sunset today. you'll see that orange haze, you probably can notice it right now. as we go through tomorrow, everything kind of thins out a bit. it's not going to be as dense. when you get in the purple, that's the very unhealthy air for everyone. that's for children all the way through seniors. madison has some of the worst air quality, indianapolis, detroit, cleveland's not good either. everywhere in the midwest. all the smoke moved south yesterday. now the air is drifting and sitting. it's not moving much. that's why it's lingering in these same spots. a little bit is now moving through areas like pittsburgh into harrisburg. it's red, it's not the purple. we're good from albany to hartford through connecticut. tonight and tomorrow some will move to the northeast, but it

will not be as bad as what you're seeing in those pictures in the midwest. so as far as the heat goes, this is probably the second story, the story we've been covering for three weeks now. we're getting a little bit of a break in a few of our spots like del rio and laredo. now the heat is and humidity is shifting through the southeast. let's see who the hottest is right now. shreveport feels like 112 in the shade. think about what it feels like in the sun. i saw someone driving their car right now, you have to wear like oven mitts, it's so hot. 109 in corpus christi, too. the heat index, one of the things we worry about is the area that gets to 103. that's the dangerous stuff from dallas to wichita to little rock. what everyone wants to know is how long this is going to last. it does look like it lasts through the rest of the week. over the holiday weekend things go back to normal. st. louis, upper 80s to near 90. new orleans, you're going to be hot. you'll be in the mid-90s instead of 100s. the smoke a bigger deal today

than it will be tomorrow and then slowly our exceptional heat wave will go back to what we'd call typical summer times weather. >> bill karins, thank you very much even though it doesn't sound so great. coming up next, waits on a plane. >> we've been here for a day and a half. >> we've been here for like ten hours. >> this is inhumane. it's actually passenger abuse. >> makes you wish it was snakes on plane. travel is a mess today, what the faa says about when it will get better. er business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ (burke) a new car loses about ten percent of its value the minute

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>> reporter: you know, kat are y i think i got one of the last flights that managed to leave on time. look, i am feeling incredibly grateful because i've been talking to people who have in some cases slept here at logan airport for the last three days. the airport staff, they're handing out these very thin simple green cots to people. there are still kids and families taking naps on them this afternoon, and you know, with you talk to them, they are just palpably exhausted and angry. you know, there's over 800 cancellations in the country right now, but just out of this airport alone, more than 50. and people are frustrated. i mean, the holiday is about to come. people are trying to get out to important meetings in some cases or to family events. take a listen to a conversation that i had first with the woman who's been here for three days, and then with another gentleman whose flight has been canceled, and he can't figure out what his next steps are. >> i think they could do more for people.

this morning the line here was three hours, at least a place to sleep. i mean, the functions are nice. i could pay my own food, but saying here's a cot, i think that's a little rude. >> the only chance they had to give me was to fly me out on saturday, which is too far away, especially for me. i need to find a place to stay. a little bit of a nightmare. >> reporter: and katy, according to one estimate about 24 million americans are planning to take departing flights starting tomorrow through wednesday as part of the big fourth of july crush. so what we're seeing or potentially going to see starting tomorrow are the cascaing effects, people trying desperately to get rebooked on flights, and airlines as you mentioned, we're not just dealing with weather problems around the country, but also

with -- according to some experts -- air traffic controller shortages. and so these two things couldn't come at a more difficult time. we expect travel to break some records starting tomorrow. so experts are warning people, if you need to get on a plane in the next couple of days, show up to the airport very early. if you can, add in another travel day for the potential that you might be staying overnight someplace like an airport. if you don't want to be one of those people, try your best to plan ahead. >> load up your car and just drive there. antonia, thank you very much. that is going to do it for me today. luckily i'm not taking a flight home. "deadline white house" starts right now. ♪♪ hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. it's one of those days, no time to waste this afternoon. there's a lot going on incluing our top story, rudy giuliani and his attorney robert costello meeting with special counsel jack smith's investigators in