and see into me the potential to be an asset to the student body, an asset to the college, and then ultimately an asset to the country. i hope that i am. i think that i am, but what i fear now is that because of this supreme court decision, they have put a lid on the dreams and potentials of millions of americans who could stand to benefit from the education that would come from it, and then stand to benefit from the reward that is come from hard work, and as a result of that, the nation is poorer for it. >> we've got to leave. thanks to all of you, and of course nicolle wallace will have the president live at 4:00 eastern, and "chris jansing reports" starts right now with lindsey reiser. ♪♪

good afternoon, i'm lindsey reiser in for chris jansing at msnbc headquarters in new york city. breaking news, affirmative action struck down. president biden as you just heard that finished speaking on the landmark supreme court decision and the potential long lasting consequences at colleges, universities, and students across this country. the court ruling on a pair of challenges to policies at harvard and unc, that the schools can no longer look at race during the admissions process. the vote was 6-3, and eddie glaude, reacting just after the decision about the lasting impact he says this will have on higher education. >> this was just one remedy, affirmative action, the only remedy to the legacy of discrimination in admissions in american higher education. one remedy. here they have taken it away. we have a small percentage of black and brown students in

elite institutions, that percentage will get even stronger. >> reactions are pouring in from students to members of congress to presidential contenders, including a former vice president mike pence. our own dasha burns caught up with him in ukraine. >> i'm grateful to see the conservative majority that we have built on the supreme court of the united states bring an end to most of affirmative action. look, we want to live in a color blind society. there may have been a time 50 years ago when we needed to affirmatively take steps to correct long-term racial bias in institutions of higher education. but i can tell you as the father of three college graduates, those days are long over. and i'm grateful today that the supreme court took us one step back to that america will judge every man and woman on the

content of their character and on their own achievement and leave race out of the consideration of admissions to hirer education. >> we'll have it all covered over the next two hours of "chris jansing reports." so let's go ahead and dig in to this landmark decision. chief justice john roberts writing the majority opinion here today saying the admissions programs lack sufficiently focussed and measurable objectives warranting the use of race, and that whoever well intentioned and implemented in good faith, the admissions programs fail each of the criteria university programs must comply with. on the other side, the liberal justices dissenting with some scathing words. justice ketanji brown jackson in the university of north carolina case writes, with let them eat cake obliviousness, the majority pulls the rip cord and announces color blindness for all by legal fiat, but deeming race irrelevant in law does not make it so in life. joining me now is nbc's allie

raffa near the white house, antonia hilton on the harvard university campus, and former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, paul butler. you're hearing realtime reaction from college students at harvard. what are you hearing? >> reporter: well, students tell me they are still processing this news, that it's come like a gut punch to the majority of them, even though they have had a lot of time to prepare for this moment, since the earliest stages of this lawsuit, people say they knew it was going to make its way to the supreme court and this result was likely. it still shocked many of them, and their concern is not so much for themselves but more for the generations of students coming up behind them, students like them who come from all kinds of communities. i spoke to one student who is to his knowledge, the only ecuadorian in his class who comes from a community in new mexico, and he's worried about what other kids like him who haven't listen looked at closely by universities like harvard, what is going to happen to them next. i want dwrou take a listen to a

conversation i had with that student, and a high schooler planning to apply to harvard this fall. >> i hope this is an opportunity to harvard to step up in recruitment and other efforts. i think it would also be wrong of me to say that i'm not scared. >> this is really bad for me because i feel like right now that they are abandoning -- i feel like it's taken a really bad part of me. right now it's only my college essay and my resume they're asking for. normally, for my personal background and my ethnicity, and everything that makes up me. >> reporter: that anxiety that you hear from vincent, the high schooler you heard from is a lot of what we have been hearing over the last several days as people prepared for this moment, that it's about students coming up behind the undergrads right now and this could change the ways in which they go about the application process. it's going to change the ways in which they dream about which

schools they can see themselves in in the future. in fact, when you look at what happened in california when their uc system did away with affirmative action, and there was a 50% drop in minority enrollment in elite colleges, part of a state system that all people, all taxpayers in california contribute to. that kind of drop is what they're afraid will happen here, and they saw a reduction of students of color who applied to the schools in the first place. who decided to to apply to harvard and unc, people not give my resume and my life experience a second look. that's going to be hard for us to fully grasp, although certainly no doubt researchers and academic institutions like this one are going to be studying this in the years to come, and that's sort of the major anxiety we're hearing right now. what happens for those who come up behind us. how does this change their behavior this coming fall, and

what do these campuses look like in the future. >> the president slammed the decision, essentially said the faith is now in these institutions to take in the totality of the student applying for admission into account. what else is your characterization of how the president reacted today? >> yeah, before we get into really the analysis of what he said, i want our viewers to take a listen to a bit of the speech he delivered in the roosevelt room before leaving to new york this afternoon. take a listen. >> today the court once again walked away from decades of precedent, and has made clear. the dissent states in today's decision quote rolls back decades of precedent and momentous progress. i agree with that statement from the dissent. the court has effectively ended affirmative action in college admissions and i strongly,

strongly disagree with the court's decision. >> reporter: later in this speech, he charged the department of education to study this issue more saying that this is not the last we're going to hear from him on this issue. he also offered guidance to u.s. colleges, urging them to consider other things in their admissions, things like prejudice and discrimination that students have had to endure. urging them to consider the hardships each one has talked about, where they grew up. he said our colleges and our country are stronger because of the diversity of our institutions. he also clarified the definition of affirmative action, debunking the thinking that this gives minorities an unfair advantage in college admissions. as far as where this goes from here, obviously these decisions, this consequential, have ripple effects through the campaign trail, as we see the 2024 campaign heating up.

it's going to be interesting to see how the biden campaign's tone shifts on this. we saw how much of a difference the aftermath of the overturning of roe v. wade had on the midterms. how that could potentially play into the 2024 election is going to be something to watch, especially as we hear just minutes ago the president making the case for how decades of precedent. decades of progress could potentially be lost without affirmative action being used in college admissions moving forward. >> i was struck at the end of our last hour, that conversation between andrea mitchell and jonathan capehart, and you wrote an op-ed, you got into yale university and harvard law school because of affirmative action. big picture here, what is the impact you think this will have on students? >> we know the dramatic and negative impact this will have based on the nine states that have already outlawed diversity in college admissions.

and ucla california's elite school, the enrollment of black and latinx students declined dramatically. there was a brief submitted by universities in this case that suggested that the number of black students at these schools is going to go down to 2%. yes, i'm taking this case as a black man who graduated with honors from harvard, after being admitted through the affirmative action process. i was as qualified as any of my excellent colleagues. the reality is before affirm tive action, we weren't present at the institutions, though we could do the work as well as anybody. now that the court has in effect overturned one of the most successful racial justice policies of all time, our country is at great risk of returning to those old days when

black and latinx and native folks, the people who built this country are shut out of the opportunity to learn at some of our country's best colleges. >> paul, if the decision doesn't rule out race entirely in admissions programs, what will that look like? what will schools and colleges, university, what will they be able to take into effect? >> so there's a line that suggests that even though you can't get points for being a member of a group that's been shut out for centuries, you can get points for overcoming segregation, for dealing with white supremacy in a way that still allows you to do well at schools like harvard and yale. again, this will be challenged. even that much. in part because this decision, it's pure politics. the constitution hasn't changed

since the supreme court's last decision in 2003 that approved affirmative action and the urgency of diversity for the future of this country hasn't changed. the only thing that's changed is the composition of the court and specifically the three justices that donald trump got to appoint. so this wasn't a legal decision. it was a power play, and today the court does for racial justice what it did last term for women's rights. it upends years of precedent and it turns back the clock on civil rights. >> i want to play you some of what a former law clerk for justice thomas and kavanaugh had to say about this earlier with my colleague andrea mitchell. >> i think that it's interesting in contrast to one of the big block buster opinions of last year, the dobbs opinion, that the court has not squarely expressly used the language of

overwhelming precedent. the chief justice keeps the opinion rights for six, and it tries to make a little bit more of a show of being consistent with past precedent on affirmative action. >> what do you make of that argument? that sort of flies in the face of what you just said. >> yeah, so i'm hoping that universities will find a way partially through the language in this board, to preserve the diversity in the classroom that's vitally needed. as a law professor, i think about how diversity has benefitted all of my students and what we will lose in the classroom when we have less black, latinx and native students. my colleagues in states that have abandoned affirmative action talk about what's lost in the educational experience when you talk about issues like racial profiling or civil rights with no black students in the classroom, no latinx students in

the classroom, and it's not just the black and latinx students whose education is undermined, it's everybody's. one of the problems of this opinion is that the court ignores the warnings from the experts, the university of officials, the fortune 500 ceos, the generals and military leaders who talked about howdy -- how diversity is one of the greatest strengths. >> julia, we have been having this discussion here. obviously of the implications here. i mean, we've had a little bit of time to look at the ruling. it is pretty lengthy. what are some of your biggest take aways here of what you read in both the decision and the dissent. >> reporter: first i want to tell you about why i'm here right now by the capitol and not outside the supreme court. there's been a suspicious package found. there was a man arrested walking up to the steps. we're not sure if he was a

protester of any sorts or where he fell because of this opinion coming down today. he was arrested and it's believed that the bag left behind may have been from him. they've cleared the area until they can make sure that that suspicious package is not safe. and they kept moving us back further and further. first we were just across the street. now they moved us all the way back. i'm fright in front of the capitol now. i wanted to let you know that. we'll continue to bring updates as the security situation unfolds. there will be a lot more ink spilled over this because there were windows left open in the end of the majority opinion by chief justice roberts saying they are ways whether it be discrimination or inspiration for someone to take race into factor of how it's affected their individual lives while not actually looking at race as a demographic that would give them a bump that they may have previously seen to get into some

of these exclusive universities and colleges. so i will say, though, that looking forward, you could see challenges based on that where some institutions may say, okay, we're going to go this way, based on that interpretation. there could be more challenges in years to come as they try to pinpoint the court more specifically here on how they can and cannot use race in trying to make for a more diverse student body. we have heard from the president, in a ruling like this and a ruling that you saw a year ago here, where they overturned roe and the dobbs decision, these are more decisions coming from a court that's tending to fall again and again along the lines of the parties that appointed them to be the justices. and more so than we saw probably ten, fifteen, 20 years ago, so another thing that could really rile people up. in fact, we're already hearing from students today across the country. we have spoken to some outside the supreme court.

of course we were disbursed from that. en there was an asian american group saying, these policies were actually discriminatory toward them. we were heard from people on the campus of unc where they said they were devastated by this decision, and what it could mean for future students. here's what they had to say. t t. okay. i guess we don't have that yet. but anyway, we will get you that as soon as we have sound for you to hear on that. but a lot of students we have seen, both here at the supreme court today and around the country reacting saying that they're worried about future students who will be coming in, if they're not able, if colleges are not able to look at race specifically when trying to have a diverse student body. >> julia ainsley, a lot of

moving parts. thanks to allie raffa and paul butler. those who have dedicated their lives to diversity and inclusion on college campuses, i'm going to talk to an associate dean at temple university. we're back in just 60 seconds. te university we're back in just 60 seconds. arthritis pain? we say not today. tylenol 8 hour arthritis pain has two layers of relief. the first is fast, the second is long-lasting. we give you your day back, so you can give it everything. tylenol. number one doctor recommended for arthritis pain. (bobby) my store and my design business?

number we're exploding.mended but my old internet, was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. welcome back, more on that breaking news from the supreme court, and what it could mean for the future of diversity inside the classroom with the loss of affirmative action. one student at unc has this message for admissions. >> i think this is a huge step back for being able to repair a lot of the structural inequalities that have existed for minority students across the country. if i had to say anything to unc admissions office, i would say that diversity is important, and you can see it in the initiatives that students have taken, past, present and future. you can see it in our day-to-day life on campus, in the

classrooms. >> i want to bring in donald p. harris, the associate dean for academic affairs, and equity, diversity, and inclusion liaison at temple university. first, i want to get your reaction to the decision. >> sure, thank you for having me. i think my reaction is that the opinion itself is not a surprise. the opinion saying that race cannot be considered as a factor in admissions. that's not a surprise. the court has been marching in this direction for some time. as one of nor previous guests noted, professor butler, there has been nothing that has changed in between the time of 2003 with grant or fisher, to now, the only thing that has changed is the composition of the court. we have super conservative court, and we have seen them now start dismantling decades and decades of precedent, and so the decision wasn't really a surprise. i would say, though, that

there's probably a bit more hope than i expected i would have. there's not much, but there's a part of the opinion where justice robert says race can be considered in particular context, so students are entitled to write about their race, and write about how their race affects their life experiences, how their race allows them to overcome adversity, and so that, and i don't think the court can tell the students they couldn't do that, but the important question is what do admissions officers do with that information. now, if they have this information, how can they tie it to one of the core qualities or values or missions of the school and use that to account for race, even though not using it as race as a plus factor in the way that the court says it cannot be used. >> that said, let's talk about what chief justice john roberts said. he said universities may consider, a quote discussion of

how race affected his or her life, so long as they are treated based on his or her experiences as an individual, not on the basis of race. how do schools even begin to distinguish that, and do you feel like this could have a chilling effect, that a school says, you know, i don't want to get sued or go against the supreme court decision. if i am considering this student's experience as part of the holistic picture. >> that's a great question, and that's what we're going to have to grapple with. this is the beginning because we're going to have to look to see the limits and boundaries, precisely for that reason. how can you talk about your life experiences without talking about race? and how can you talk about adversity, and overcoming significant adversity without talking about race. i think it's going to be really hard to part it in the way the court is suggesting you might be able to do so. i think what ultimately might

happen, so, for example, schools can consider lots of different things, lots of attributes for students, leadership skills, experiences, character, and so if you can tie those experiences, even though they're based on race, to one of those various values, then i think the courts, at least this court decision seems to uphold using race in that way. i have no doubt that we'll have other court -- or other cases that come before the court to tackle this very issue. when schools start looking at overcoming adversity or looking at life experiences or looking at leadership skills or looking at character, and it is somehow tied to race. of course a court is going to say that also is unconstitutional. i think that's the next step. the other next step if you permit me is we're going to have to see what limits there are on advancing or achieving diversity. the court didn't say that we cannot -- that diversity is not

a compelling interest and schools cannot achieve diversity for the value and benefits that it allows. what does that mean? i'm a liaison for diversity, equity and inclusion. does that mean that i can't put on programs for putting on diversity, we can't have a curriculum focused on diversity. that's something we're grapple with. >> donald harris, so good to talk to you. thank you. >> my pleasure. thank you. >> we're going to have much more on the breaking news from the supreme court coming up. i'll speak with judicial crisis network president kari severino who's calling this decision great and historic. that's next. is decision great and historic that's next. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated.

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right now conservative groups are hailing the supreme court decision striking down affirmative action. joining me now is carrie severino, president of the judicial crisis network. carrie, thank you for being with us on this. you have called this a great and historic decision. why? >> as the chief justice's majority opinion illustrates as well as the concurrences, that is an opinion that flows from the reasoning in brown v. board of education. it is informed by historic understandings of the constitution as trying to make equality between the races the 14th amendment equal protection clause requires that all races be treated equal, and the

decision, as well as the concurrences point out many instances in history where benign racism was invoked and excuses were given as a way that's harmful. the case in which japanese americans were interned and the court is saying we need to get out of racial classificatios all together with respect to education in particular, but obviously this is about the promise of the equal protection clause, so this really applies broadly to the government's treatment of race. >> when president biden says colleges are stronger when they're racially diverse, what do you say to those who argue that campuses will almost certainly become less diverse in the wake of this decision? >> there's at least nine different states that have laws in their books prohibiting race being considered in admissions, california has the longest history, and actually, we can see from their experience that it has resulted in a higher

number of black s.t.e.m. graduates and engineers and doctors and things because bringing people into colleges that they're not prepared for seems to be the main result of some of these racial preferences programs, as justice thomas's dissent points out. at the end of the day, it doesn't result in more minority applicants, not generally minorities, we know that asian americans are minority that in this case is being discriminated against in these policies, but black and hispanic applicants overall there were not more going to college, they were being redistributed to different colleges and often admitted to colleges where they were not as fully prepared and as a result didn't do as well, and weren't able to enter into some of the more challenging schools and careers. >> california, for example, berkeley and ucla did see declines of 40% immediately in the year after it was implemented in the enrollment of black and latinx students.

>> the research i'm pointing out is the end of the day, the results of that however, were that there were more black graduates in these difficult areas such as s.t.e.m. education because the problem wasn't there. >> we have had a couple of guests on the show who have said that this is essentially a composition of the court undoing decades of precedent. what do you say to that? >> well, as chief justice roberts clearly argues, the court is being more consistent with its precedent than the dissents. the dissents acknowledge that many of the arguments for using racism to try to create what they feel is the ideal student makeup actually is not supported by the court's precedent. the court has long been saying this is something we should be getting away from, and the most recent case said that this should not be allowed whatsoever after 25 years. >> in your fox news op-ed, you cite justice o'connor who said this should only be needed, affirmative action for 25 years or so. do you think we are in a place,

society-wise, vice president pence, former vice president pence said at the beginning of the show, the need for this no longer exists. do you agree with that? >> i think there never was a need to discriminate on the basis of race. i think that pernicious to our society. it perpetuates stereotypes about race and the idea that people of an individual race all agree on an idea. the court points out particularly when you point out the broad spectrum of experiences, different types of asian americans have. they talk about the difference of a black that grew up in manhattan and the segregated south, have very different perspectives and to throw them in the same bucket is perpetuating stereotypes. it's a zero sum game and indeniable that this is harming asian applicants in particular because they have much higher standards and being subjected to

the stereotypes they are boring, uninteresting, and that's not fair and not true. >> carrie severino, thank you for your time and perspective. many republicans cheering the supreme court's decision, while democrats are calling it a devastating blow. we are live on capitol hill following all of that reaction next. ol hill following alofl that reaction next my active psoriatic arthritis can make me feel like i'm losing my rhythm. with skyrizi to treat my skin and joints, i'm getting into my groove. ♪(uplifting music)♪ along with significantly clearer skin... skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. skyrizi attaches to and reduces a source of excess inflammation that can lead to skin and joint symptoms. with skyrizi 90% clearer skin and less joint pain are possible. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. thanks to skyrizi, there's

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on capitol hill, reaction to the supreme court's decision to overturn affirmative action in

college admissions has been swift. democratic senator cory booker called it a devastating blow to our education system. while his republican colleague senator tom cotton called affirmative action systemic discrimination and said admissions should be decided on merit, not by color of skin. the ruling is further proof that thanks to a majority conservative supreme court, elections have consequences so will that have an impact on the midterms? let's bring in nbc's ryan nobles on capitol hill, and former republican congressman david jolly and msnbc political analyst on the midterms and the general election. ryan, speaker kevin mccarthy said the ruling made the college admissions process a fairer equality under the law, what are you hearing on the hill that's striking to you? >> reporter: as you have pointed out the reaction to this decision from members of congress is falling along partisan lines. many democrats extremely worried about what this could potentially mean for minority

students looking to get into esteemed universities, while republicans believe that it is evening the playing field, but you're right, they're almost immediately pivoting to turning this into an election message, much like what we saw in the wake of the dobbs decision that overturned roe v. wade. you immediately saw democrats make this a clarion call in a ballot box in the upcoming midterm elections, and that was to a certain extent a successful enterprise. this is a little bit different, the ruling by the supreme court, there isn't really necessarily a straight way to solve this problem, if you view it as a problem through the legislative process. it's a much more declarative decision in that regard, it may make it more difficult to message in a midterm election. you can see democrats positioning themselves to talk about the court at large, you know, president biden already not calling it a normal court, and you can bet this is going to

be one of their primary messaging vehicles during the 2024 midterms which are now right around the corner. >> david, do you agree, is this a big deal politically, and we've heard people sort of compare it to the dobbs decision. do you think it will have that kind of galvanizing effect? >> i think it can be if democrats decide on exactly what the right message is, as ryan said. importantly, i think there are lessons that can be told from this on terms of elections mattering. the appointment and confirmation of judges, but how you use power when you have it, right? what mitch mcconnell did following the death of anthony scalia, and ruth bader ginsburg was hypocritical, but also helped shape this court. what do you do with power legislatively when you have it? i think this is where democrats have an opportunity. ryan's right, you can't legislate around the 14th amendment, but that one line at the end that justice roberts' opinion gives democrats that says that a person's experience with race can be used as a

consideration if they can articulate what that experience is, how it informs their life story. that provision can be legislated around, either expansively or restrictively. i think for democrats today, they can say, look, if we have the ability to legislate around that line, acknowledging that someone's own experience with race can empower them and inform their contributions to a university as democrats we will legislate that and write that into law. i think that's a message that can galvanize democratic voters. >> i want to ask you about an exchange between former vice president pence and our dasha burns, and he said, there may have been a time 50 years ago when this was needed, but he said, i can tell you as the father of three college graduates, those days are long over. politically, can something like that backfire on him for people who hear that and say, no, they're not. >> yeah, this is -- i'm afraid we're a divided nation, for republicans, the culture wars

that they have ignited in the past five years that trump and desantis and others are carrying on, really break down the hard questions around race, who we are as a nation, what are our values on this hard question of race, and that's where i think pence and others get it wrong. they see things as black and white. the truth is that cannot be the perspective in america. the court has given a slim opening for democrats to say we will deliver federal legislation protecting the inclusion of one's experience with race in consideration for university admissions. give us a chance as democrats to lead on this issue. >> i got less than a minute with you, david. as members of congress run for reelection, which party do you think is most likely to make this a prominent part of their campaign? or both? >> i don't think republicans will understand it, honestly. i think they're going to overreach, they're going to get it wrong on the facts. i think the court has given that opening. i think democrats can use this to galvanize and turn out democratic voters that say we

have two views of america that has always been the issue between democrats and republicans. follow us to an america that's more inclusive of everyone. >> ryan nobles and former congressman david jolly, thank you both. much more ahead, including a look inside the court as the historic decision was made, including how the justices interacted. one even calling out others by name. that's next. one enev calling ouy name that's next. (bobby) my store and my design business? we're exploding. but my old internet, was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide.

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we're learning more about what it was like in the room, as the high court handed down the affirmative action decision. justice clarence thomas read his concurring decision after chief justice john roberts made the original announcement saying the racial boxes into which universities place applicants are little more than stereotypes. this is not the 1860s or the 1960s. according to our reporter in the room at no point during thomas's lengthy concurrence did justice ketanji brown jackson look over at him. she looked ahead the whole time, and appeared angry. justice sonia sotomayor made her displeasure clear as well in a nearly 20 minute dissent, she called out chief justice roberts and chief justice thomas by name multiple times. she described the ruling as profoundly wrong and devastating, saying that the pursuit of diversity will gone despite the court. sotomayor quoted martin luther king saying, we shall overcome. i want to bring back paul butler, former federal prosecutor and professor at

georgetown school of law, and peter bake, "new york times" chief, and white house correspondent. you heard some of the details there. is ketanji brown jackson speaking on behalf of a group of voices that has never had representation on this bench before? >> she absolutely is. when justice jackson was confirmed, we knew that she would spend a lot of time writing dissents, pushing back against this hard right ultimate tra -- ultra conservative supreme court, and her opinion today confirms that she was the right woman for the job. it's eloquent and powerful, but most importantly, justice jackson schools the conservatives on the court about the legacy of white supremacy in this country, and how the whole history of fourth amendment is about trying to remedy that horrific legacy. and the point of the 14th

amendment was to create equal justice for black people. today's decision actually upends that history, so justice jackson challenges the conservatives on their own terms. she says they're not actually originalists or believers in the rule of law because if they were, they would have followed the 50 years of precedent on this issue, which supports diversity at colleges and universities. >> peter, after his remarks, president biden was asked if this is a rogue court, and he said, this is not a normal court. what does this decision mean for the reputation of the court moving forward? >> well, look, of course every court that moves society to the left or the right is going to seem illegitimate to those who have lost out, but the question here for a lot of legal analysts is moving things past, you know, settled law, what seems to be settled law, overturning precedent, rather than moving the court in a different direction, not just that, but

overturning precedent. we have seen it with dobbs a year ago with abortion rights. we have seen it obviously in this ruling today. we've seen it in several cases in terms of guns in the last few years, and that seemed to upend where things had been sort of decided and baked into the firment, if -- firmament, full. you hear president biden giving voice to that. it's going to appeal, i think, to democrats upset with the rulings, upset that donald trump was given three seats on the supreme court, and changed the makeup of it. a lot of democrats think this is a viable issue. he is an institutionalist, when he say he's not a normal court, he's very cautious in the way he attacks the court because he is still an institutionalist. a lot of people are advising him to go stronger and harder and

characterize the court as radical and extremist as part of next year's election. >> how unusual is it for justices to read their decision, and call one another out by name. >> so the calling one another out by name is unusual. it's not that they're reading decisions on important issues out loud to emphasize both the importance and how their faction, if you will, the hard right, like thomas and alito, it's not just opposition to affirmative action, but also opposition to school integration, and voting rights and basically any law or policy that's designed to address the centuries of discrimination that black people, brown people, native people have suffered, and so just like their reversal of roe v. wade last year, today

was a culmination of a long project by conservatives. the project had its origins in politics, and that's why donald trump has already responded to today's decision by saying this is a great day in america. this is actually a day where we saw the triumph of the right wing antiblack politics that people like donald trump have fomented. >> in the last segment, we had a discussion about whether this is an issue where you can galvanize voters. are you hearing this about your political sources, whether they will try and activate people ahead of the next election? >> yeah, no question about that. of course, obviously, and the affirmative action is, you know, an important part of the, you know, the philosophy of the democratic coalition, the idea that diversity is important goes to the heart of the message that democrats have embraced for years now, and i think that, you

know, that's something that president biden has appointed more black women to the federal appeals court than all of his predecessors combined. he'll point out that he appointed ketanji brown jackson, named the first running mate to be the first vice president of color, those are important issues to him and his coalition. you'll see him talk about this a lot. the question is whether it goes so far to talk about the legitimacy of the court. in a way that's where he becomes a little more skid irk, he's an institutionalist. he's been in office for so long. in terms of the attack on affirmative action. that's a core message you're going to hear in the months to come from democrats. >> paul butler, and peter baker, my thanks to both of you for joining us on this. we are staying on top of this breaking news. next hour, the polling around affirmative action, and how today's ruling might be received across the country. stick with us. might be received across the country stick with us.

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we begin this hour with our continued coverage of the breaking news from the supreme court. striking down affirmative action in college admissions as we know it. any moment now, the group who brought these cases against harvard university and the university of north carolina, the students for fair admissions will hold a press conference, you're looking at a live shot. we're going to bring this to you the moment it happens. we're also hearing reaction from president biden who voiced his