it is a hard line to walk. she said on msnbc we have to get to know each other. this is a new vice chinese premier she's going to be meeting with who run it is economy out of beijing. she had a relationship with the previous premier. there's the semiconductors that can help china's a.i. industry, and they're beefing up the work on outbound investment, the executive order we've been waiting for. potentially, that can come as soon as the july, the end of july. for the treasury secretary, it'll be a difficult one. >> the white house hopeful of a meeting between president biden and president xi later this year, maybe at the g20 in india in september or in november at the pacific state summit in the united states. correspondent for bloomberg tv, ann marie horden, thank you so much. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this friday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. take a look at overruling

roe v. wade. take a look at the decision today. take a look at how it's -- how it's ruled on a number of issues that have been precedent for 50, 60 years sometimes. across the board, the vast majority of the american people don't agree with a lot of the decisions this court is making. >> that's president joe biden yesterday on msnbc, reacting to the supreme court overturning the use of affirmative action in college admissions. you know, willie, it was a fascinating interview. i have to say, though, a little concerned. the new york "washington post" -- "new york post," which is "morning joe's" paper of record -- also, people come up to me and ask why. it's simple. they won more pulitzer prizes collectively than all other newspapers. >> look it up. >> look it up if you don't believe me. that's why. anyway, -- don't look it up. they have on the cover online, like, joe biden walking off set,

right? it's like he got lost. kind of like barnicle. we ask him a question, and he walks off in the middle of a question because he wants to get to the airport. he asks like biden is confused. no, he's president of the united states. he said, "thank you, and i'm going to leave now." people do that to us all the time. they don't end up on the front page of the ""new york post."" i get it, he says, "god save the queen." i'm a sex pistols fan, too. i'm probably not going to end a speech with that. he confuses the rock and ukraine. i get all that stuff. but some of this stuff is just ridiculous. >> president biden talked to nicolle wallace at our studio in 30 rock. they had a cordial good-bye. nicolle reads the tease, and apparently he walks by and it's a headline now. you watch the newspaper of

record for "morning joe," articles suggesting there is an age problem, that he doddering and wanders, and he does misspeak, and we talk about that. that's not the most important thing that happened yesterday. we'll get into that. we'll turn the page even though the paper of record is our favorite. >> exactly. i don't know if people know this, but joe biden was misspeaking in 1987. in fact, he had to leave the presidential campaign in 1987 because misspeaking, well, that's just a thing he did and does. anyway, let's bring in some other people who do not misspeak. they are professionals, unlike me. former white house director of communications to president obama, jen palmieri. also the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's politics nation,shar. analyst john heilemann. and pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," eugene robinson.

we're going to be talking about affirmative action, landmark ruling yesterday. just a shocker for a lot of people. first, john heilemann, really quickly on politics, while we're talking about joe biden and biden getting knocked around, david brooks had a piece on why biden isn't getting the credit he deserves. he says, the misery index is a crude but effective way to measure the health of the economy. if you are a president running for re-election, you want the number as low as possible. when reagan won re-election 49 states, it was 11.4. when george w. bush did so, it was 9. barack obama, 9.5. for joe biden today, 7.7. biden should be cruising to an easy re-election victory. of course, you look at the numbers, he's not there. there is such a disconnect between the economy, his

economic numbers in just about every respect and those before him, especially donald trump. yet, the right track/wrong track is wildly askew, despite all the legislative accomplishments, just as a matter of record, he's put down there. it's really -- there is this huge divide between reality and, well, perception. >> obviously, it's a huge challenge for the white house and the re-election for the president, how do you fight through that? if only there were some magic elixir that would help to align reality and history with president biden's political standing and standing in the polls. i think two things are going on there, two that immediately come to mind, joe. my friend jen palmieri can speak to this as dramatically as

anyone, just how different the political world is today than it was even when barack obama ran for re-election in 2012. the degree of polarization is so much further off the charts. it was bad in 2012. it's been getting worse over the course of our lifetimes. in the last 30 years, the dominant factor in our politics, really, but it is the case now that, like, because the polarization is what it is, because the media landscape is dominated by extreme voices on both sides, in particular, the megaphone on the right is so loud, there's a distorting effect that bill clinton, that ronald reagan and george w. bush, george herbert walker bush, and barack obama didn't have to deal with to the extent joe biden did. the second factor which is, again, a central challenge for this re-elect, which is, fairly or not, is the case that americans look at all the good going on, looking at the state of their 401(k)s that have been going up the last three, four

months, are look at all the accomplishments and so on, and still continue to tell pollsters that the fact that joe biden's age, any president in his 80s, gives them pause. i think that's a challenge. hopefully from the biden perspective, hopefully it'll be a soluble challenge, but it does point to how stubborn that view is among a lot of people, including some people on the democratic side. let's start this hour with the landmark decisions, two from the supreme court yesterday, ending race-based affirmative action in the college admissions. the court ruled programs at the university of north carolina and harvard violate the equal protection clause of the constitution. the schools were accused of giving substantial preference to black and hispanic applicants while discriminating against asian-american students. the vote was 6-3 in the north carolina case, with all three of the liberal judges dissenting and 6-2 in the harvard ruling, because justice ketanji brown

jackson had to recuse herself. chief roberts stated, they lack sufficiently focused objectives warranting the use of race, with stereotyping and lacking meaningful end points. he gave admission offices an opening on the admission of race, writing, nothing in this opinion should be construed as prohibiting universities from considering an applicant's discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration or otherwise. justice ketanji brown jackson in the rebuttal wrote, with let them eat cake obliviousness today, they announce color blindness for all by legal fiat. but deeming race irrelevant in law does not make it so in life. the court noted the decision will not take effect immediately. in a concurring opinion, justice

brett kavanaugh wrote the ruling would apply to students first starting college in 2028. reverend sharpton, yesterday morning, you and i discussed this. you anticipated this ruling. most people expected it to go this way. you had begun to walk us through some of the follow-on effects from this decision. how are you looking at it this morning? >> well, i think it was as bad or worse than i had thought. clearly, the court, in my judgment, stuck a dagger in the back of many of us that feel that we need to continue to legally protect people that have had to deal with historic inequities. you must understand, affirmative action started under the nixon administration, written by arthur fletcher. this was a conservative remedy to equalize the fact that blacks by law couldn't go to certain schools. by law, they were enslaved. i mean, we are not talking about a custom here. we're talking about the law said

that we couldn't do certain things. i just spoke in jackson, mississippi, two weeks ago, where james meredith was in the audience. he's a much older man now. he was the first black to go to the university of mississippi. he had to be escorted in by the military. that's just a generation before me. i think we are trying to act as though, all of a sudden by some magic wand, everything is equal. when you look at the fact that affirmative action was voted out in the state of california and look at the numbers of blacks and hispanics now in those top schools, as governor gavin newsom brought up, it has gone down in high percentage points. so this is bad. it can also be used in the private sector, is my fear. to say it is unconstitutional to use race as a factor, they can

affect the programs that deal with diversity in employment and on boards. this could have devastating impact if we don't resist. let me say this, joe, when you refer to "the new york post," when the president left the studio from the cold, he came and met with me for 10, 15 minutes. he probably was looking for where his meetings were going to be when he was leaving. he was not stumbling around. the secret service was directing him. i think alex had the picture of him and i meeting here. he wasn't lost. i think "the post" was lost. >> yeah, he wasn't lost at all. i mean, you can see, again, him in a hurry to get out of the chair, get out and meet somebody really important. we all know that person, rev, was you. i got the picture from alex to prove it. as the rev was saying, even liberal states have voted out affirmative action, california,

washington state. the results, despite their best efforts in california, look at u.c. berkeley, numbers are down. they're doing everything they can to try to have, again, the numbers of their student body match up with the percentages of people in their state based on demographics, so they have a student body that represents the diversity of their state. california, they're still struggling to do it because affirmative action was banned statewide by a vote. this is, gene, obviously, affirmative action is -- people have complicated feelings, mixed emotions about it. it's unpopular with a majority of americans, even with asian-americans, hispanics, black americans. i noticed tyler austin hooper, a bates college professor, he wrote this in "the new york times" today about racial gaming. he helps kids get into college. he is a tutor, helps kids get into college also. the chinese and korean kids who

wanted to know how to make their application materials seem less chinese or korean. the rich, white kids wanted to be less white and less rich. the black kids wanted to come across as black enough. ditto for the latino and middle eastern kids. affirmative action is necessary to address the historical evils of slavery and its myriad afterlives. above all, that it is crucial counterbalance against a prevailing system of de facto white affirmative action that rewards many academically mediocre and wealthier students by having legacy parents or being good at rowing a boat. yet, i also believe that affirmative action, though necessary, has inadvertently helped create a race-obsessed american university culture. this is one of these issues, gene, that requires us to use dialectical thinking. there are -- it's an imperfect

system, but at the same time, it addresses, again, a lot of imperfections in america's past and present. >> right. affirmative action is or was the system that we were allowed to use to try to address some of the inequities of the past. a frank and honest attempt at remediation was never allowed. you had 350 years of slavery, jim crow segregation, discrimination, red lining, wage theft, you name it, and then you had the great civil rights legislation of the 1960s. you had, beginning in the nixon administration, a very limited sort of affirmative action like

program or philosophy. to begin to address some of those wrongs. quite suddenly, in the -- with the decision and moving forward, any sort of ability to honestly and frankly and openly try to remediate some of -- of the wrongs that were committed over centuries was taken away. since 2003, really the only justification that's been allowed for affirmative action in college admissions at least is diversity. not remediation for the many past wrongs that compounded them over the centuries. so, yes, people have tied themselves in knots to try to justify something that should

have been very frankly justified, and then you could have talked about time limiting. if you actually made an honest attempt to remediate some of what was done to from time to times over now 400 years. >> let's bring in supreme court correspondent at "the wall street journal" jess braven. thanks for being here. parse through this long opinion and what chief justice roberts said, which is effectively that race-based admissions policies violate the equal protection clause of the constitution. but, he said in an essay, a student of color can write about how his or her race has impacted his or her life, telling a story about their own individual experience rather than a broad experience about their race. what does that mean exactly? how does a college admissions

board take this ruling? by the way, many expected it to go this way for quite some time now. >> it means you can't make assumptions about anybody because of their race. that's what the chief justice was stressing. he said, you can't say, well, because this applicant is black or hispanic, you can assume they carry with them certain experiences or obstacles or what have you. he called that stereotypes. he did not rule out, as you say, that if someone has been affected in their own experience by their race, and he described whether it is obstacles overcame or a particular pride they take in it, if it is relevant to their personal experience, they can describe that and schools can consider that in admissions. they can't -- and this was the term that came up during the oral arguments last year -- they can't just check the box and look at it as automatically meeting something because an applicant is black or hispanic. >> jen palmieri, most colleges had been expecting it to go this way based on the arguments made

last fall. they heard the justices' questions. 6-3 in one case, 6-2 the other, didn't think the conservatives would side this way and write the opinion. colleges are ready for it. as gene and rev have been saying, we have experience with this in other states where racial preferences and affirmative action has been eliminated, that it objectively reduces the number of students of color that go into these schools. >> right. i mean, the margins are stark, too. i think that the california rights for black students now is a third of what it used to be. jess, both sotomayor and ketanji brown jackson said it is disingenuous to say the schools can consider whether it inspired them or set them back, that the

diversity could be taken into account, and the court specifically, you know, his opinion, controlling the pen, the chief justice, said it was not setting new precedent, not overturning precedent. how do you parse that argument from the minority side, that this is the chief justice being disingenuous, that race can be a factor in admissions? >> well, you know, it comes down to really a difference between the chief and the majority and the dissenters, about what -- excuse me -- what equal protection means under the constitution, right? from the chief's point of view, it has to be color blind. you can't make assumptions. people can talk about it in their essays. already they do. you had the commentary before, that some applicants emphasize their race or downplay it because they think it'll have an impact. is he being disingenuous? look, this is an important issue to chief justice john roberts.

it is as important to him as the abortion cases were to alito last year. eliminating racial preferences, as he sees it, has been a driving part of his jurisprudence for decades. you know, it's no surprise to them. it's not some new attitude that the chief justice has. in 2007 or '08, he wrote an opinion, getting rid of voluntary integration programs in k12 schools. this is really the second shoe to drop in his effort to implement what he sees as a color blind constitution. is he being disingenuous, or is it simply he wants to take race out of the picture in american society? he believes that's what the constitution requires. not everywhere. there are some exceptions in other areas of law, and we saw him uphold part of the voting rights act earlier this month, which may have some as a surprise to some people. i can't get inside his head. is he being disingenuous? i believe this is what john robert sincerely believes. >> let's talk about what got us here, the harvard case,

particularly. if i were listening to this conversation, i'd say, wait a second, you want to talk about what's been happening to us at harvard and in other schools. you had asian-americans openly being discriminated against because they were overrepresented in some schools because they had higher grades and, you know, there would be personality scores. i think it was the harvard case. personality numbers, so many were zeroed out to try to discriminate against asian-americans and keep their numbers down. you could have been an extraordinary student. you could have had extraordinary extracurricular activities. you could have been the model applicant for the process, but you were discriminated against by harvard. isn't that what got us here in the first place? >> well, harvard said, no, we're not discriminating against anybody, and these personality scores or what have you don't reflect discrimination. they reflect the views of the

interviewers or whoever. harvard certainly says, we're not discriminating against anybody. we're only giving kind of a plus to certain applicants, particularly black and hispanic. obviously, the allegation were they were discriminating, and because it's a zero sum game in college admissions, if somebody gets a plus, somebody else gets a minus. yes, some asian-americans felt they were being discriminated against. the chief justice looked at the fact that harvard maintained almost identical racial breakdowns of the entering class for years, evidence that they were juicing the numbers to make sure they stayed at certain proportions year after year. >> correspondent at "the wall street journal," jess bravin, thank you for walking us through it. let's bring in joyce vance now. she's an msnbc legal analyst. joyce, good morning. so as we said, not a big surprise here. most people expected this decision to come down this way, both decisions to come down this

way. what is your reaction to the legal argument made by chief justice roberts in the majority opinion? >> right. so the legal argument, there's a constitutional basis engaged here for saying that these programs that give a bump up to minority applicants have to come to an end and they have to come to an end now. unfortunately, that ignores some of the basic realities of the world we live in. justice jackson's dissent does an impeccable job of pointing that out. she says, in essence, the chief justice tries to decide by fiat that discrimination, that racial discrimination has come to an end in america, so there is no longer any need for these affirmative action programs. we hear an echo of justice roberts' decision in shelby county versus holder, the voting rights case. ten years ago, he said, "there's no longer any reason to have concern about racial discrimination in voting."

these old statistics about low registration and low turnout among black voters, they no longer tell the story. of course, history has proven that that opinion was dramatically shortsighted. in fact, we do have problems that continue to pervade the ability of black people to vote in american and that that decision made it worse, not better. i fear that's the outcome of the short-sighted analysis in these cases, where the chief justice says, in essence, this opinion puts a burden on black applicants and other minority applicants to write an essay that says, "hey, take a look at me. i've overcome diversity." the court says that this individualized factor can be considered. that imposes an awfully strong burden on your average 17 or 18-year-old writing their college application. instead of permitting colleges and universities when they make admissions decisions to look at

factors that contribute to stronger communities in the academic institutions, it places the burden back on individuals who, frankly, may or may not be able to carry that forward. >> joyce, i agree. i certainly agree with you and share your concerns. i do wonder, what's your response not just to the majority's facts they put forward about asian-americans being discriminated against, but asian-americans that talk about their children being discriminated against. asian-american students saying, "we are being discriminated against because this is a zero sum game." if you plus up one demographic group, you're going to subtract from another. time and time again, it's been asian-americans, certainly over the last decade. of course, you look at asian-americans who have not -- who faced a different kind of discrimination, but from internment camps, absolutely

horrific treatment throughout the years, this isn't exactly a demographic group who has been embraced throughout american history. what do you say to asian-american students and asian-american parents this morning who say, "okay, finally, my kids are going to get an equal chance and stop being minused, stop being zeroed out on the personality scores because of affirmative action"? >> so, joe, i think your comments are smart comments, and they point to how difficult and nuanced of a problem this is. because when you talk about college admissions, it is inherently a zero sum game. some students are admitted, other students are not admitted. the central question here is whether there's a legitimate interest that survives strict scrutiny in ensuring that black students are admitted, that the historic impacts of slavery and of discrimination don't continue into the modern era.

and although that's tough in some ways when you look across the groups, what we have to do is have legal rules that permit universities to make decisions that benefit the future. i don't mean to pretend that these decisions are any more easy or simple than they are, but the fact of the matter is, when you look at the law in this area, not just cases about affirmative action, but go back to brown versus board of education. when you think of whether there is a legitimate interest in ensuring that black students can go to college, that disadvantages can be taken in account of by universities, which, when you think about it, what doing, they're on some occasions giving applicants a bump up because of their background. other students get the bump ups, too. for instance, legacies. if your dad went to harvard, you get a bump up. if you're an athlete, you get a bump up. these are nuanced decisions that

consider a lot of different factors. all that affirmative action did was level the playing field, by permitting race to be considered as one of many factors used in a holisitc decision making process. that's what the supreme court has said can no longer be done. >> by the way, speaking of legacies, john heilemann, the majority pointed out this all could have been avoided if the universities had stopped giving preferential treatment to legacies and athletes. >> right. we're all familiar with this problem, and it's one of the more grotesque elements to the whole system of private university, the process of how they evaluate studestudents. the legacy problem has been a problem for a long time. joe, my question for -- as i listen to you and joyce talk about this, you know, the question that's been on

everybody's mind politically over the course of the last 24 hours is, like, to whether this will have the impact, this decision, that the decision -- the abortion decision did last year. there's been a lot of speculation from both directions. obviously, it's all just as before we saw the fallout from the abortion decision, we all were speculating about what impact it would have. obviously, it was in an extreme in one direction, which is to say the degree of outrage over it and the way it animated democratic voters, we saw the impact of that. i'm curious what you think about whether it is going to -- whether there is a similar pattern that could play out here. as i listen to you and joyce talk about it, it highlights to me at least on the politics why i'm at least a little skeptical about whether it can have that impact or not. affirmative action is such a complicated, nuanced question. groups are affected in such different ways. the abortion decision, it was very clear cut in some sense. a fundamental right that more than half of the population had

for 50 years was taken away. the notion people would rally the way they did around women's rights in that case, you could see the straight line. affirmative action has always been more complicated because it affects different groups differently, and the application of it is much more subtle and nuanced. there are groups who you would think would be allies who won't be on the politics for this. i'm curious whether this is another giant explosion in politics and will affect 2024, or rather, as i think, there's so much complexity around this issue, it's not likely to cut in as deeply and clearly as the abortion decision did. >> i think that the politics of this is it will cut deeply into black and brown voters. when you look at the decision, saying that we, in effect, are ending affirmative action, but not in military schools. you can go to the bunker but not the board room, someone wrote, through being educated properly.

a lot of people in the immediate reaction was saying to me, "this is racially targeted toward stopping our progress, stopping to, in a lot of ways, fix the historic discrimination." i think you will see that. i'm going to new orleans this weekend. the vice president is already there. largest gathering of blacks, "essence" magazine, i talked with the owner. people want to mobilize now. the other thing that is resonating with a lot of people is that this supreme court, a third of it, three out of the nine, were appointed by donald trump. voting matters. had there been more black turnout in certain places, we may not have had those justices. so i think that you're going to see over the weekend on into the august 26th march, a lot of people saying, "wait a minute, we are not going to have a country where you can get affirmative action to serve in

the military or go to military schools, but you can't have the documented evidence that you can give the kids a bump up to go to schools that parents and grandparents couldn't go to to help nurture their education." my mother had to drop out of school in alabama. she couldn't help me with her -- with my homework because she didn't have the skills. it was a continuation into these times, so you need to remedy what was done by law. i think that's going to energize a lot of black voters that might have sat on the fence, in terms of voting. >> gene robinson, in your piece in "the washington post" this morning, you say that this decision yesterday, both decisions, is ignorant of the past, but you also express concern for the future. as you think even beyond college

admissions, even beyond campus, the follow-on effects of this, what this means at the corporate level perhaps, if we see new lawsuits brought against corporations with dei programs and things like that, what are your concerns as you now look over the horizon based on this ruling? >> well, my concerns are the majority on the supreme court and where they're going with this. i wonder, i mean, justice roberts did exempt the military academies. he said that issue wasn't presented to them in this case, so they're not messing with that. but when we get lawsuits coming up, percolating up perhaps, that deal with perceived affirmative action, whether it is real or not in employment, hiring, promotions, wherever, what is this court going to do? i have great concerns about that, but we'll have to see.

two quick observations about this ruling. number one, when we talk about harvard and unc and these very selective schools, we're talking about choosing a freshman class from a huge pool of qualified applicants. harvard could assemble a perfectly fine, all white freshmen class or all asian freshmen class or all black freshmen class from the pool of qualified applicants. we're not talking about giving a place at harvard to somebody who is not qualified to be there. that's one point. the second point is about justice roberts sort of leaving the door open a crack and saying, well, nothing prohibits discussion of race in the essay, what he was essentially saying. the very next sentence, he kind

of takes it back and says, "but colleges are not allowed to do, through essays, what we forbid them to do through other means." it is very unclear, how the court is going to react if colleges go to root. >> colleges left to grapple with all this. we'll come back. msnbc legal analyst joyce vance, thank you so much, as always. ahead on "morning joe," yesterday's ruling on affirmative action programs not the only major decision handed down by the supreme court yesterday. we will go over the high court's opinion that makes it easier for employees to seek religious accommodation at work and look ahead to a couple more important decisions coming down today. plus, a look at another pair of decisions just hours from now, and a federal grand jury in miami reportedly still investigating aspects of the classified documents case against donald trump. we'll have the latest there. and the sky over new york city a bit hazy this morning as

wildfire smoke from canada blankets parts of the country again. we'll speak with a leading health expert about how to keep safe while all this is going on. you're watching "morning joe" on a friday morning. we'll be right back. from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated

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nominating contest for the first time in its nearly 20 year history. "the times" notes the koch network's goal, described indirectly in written internal communications, is to stop donald trump from winning the republican nomination. back in february, a top political official at the network vote a memo to activists saying, quote, it's time to have a president in 2025 who represents a new chapter. obviously, the koch network has been incredibly influential over the years in republican politics. they're trying to sink donald trump. unclear what it means, which presidential candidate it is focused on, backing, or if this is throwing money away because donald trump is running away with this thing. >> there's a lot we don't know yet here, willie. you're right, the koch network extraordinarily influential, though diminished a little in recent years. they've been opposed to trump for some time, and he has given

it right back. he also is less reliant on some of the big donors because he has proven so successful at those small donations, of raising money from his loyal followers, including getting them to pay for his legal defense fee on more than one occasion. we'll see here, though, that's still a big number, and it does symbolize that somehow, some, i stress, some republican-leaning institutions are really trying to move the party away from trump. largely because of electability reasons. they don't think he can win again in 2024. right now, the anti-trump movement hasn't really taken off. it's not clear if they coalesce around one of his rivals and who that might be. ron desantis was certainly the great hope among many republicans who wanted to find a different path away from trump. so far, his campaign has not achieved lift-off. he is 30 odd points behind trump in the polls. yes, it's early, but there's already a sense with republicans

i speak to here and across the country, a panic among never trump republicans, that the party is already hurtling toward nominating him again. >> in large part, the ron desantis train has taken a detour away from winning. it's had a horrible, horrible few months. let's look at this, john heilemann. when you have the koch network talking about pushing $70 million into the stop trump effort, reporters talking about how leonard leo, who, you know, just inherited over $1 billion for his political activities, is starting to spread money out behind ron desantis, it seems people with the most money in the republican party are uniting against trump in a way they didn't do in '16. >> ah, you know, they did and they didn't, joe. remember back in 2016, at least a lot of the people with the

most money were united behind jeb bush. maybe not -- we'll see how it plays out in this race. i mean, it's been this growing trend as we have observed over the course of the last few months, the republican donor class, from the circles of listening to karl rove, the people in the club for growth, the people now out front. we've known the kochs have been moving this direction for some months. they've now all decided they are definitely, definitely, definitely going to try to challenge trump. i think the problem is two-fold. one is that, you know, with whom? you talked about ron desantis having his detour. you can't beat donald trump with money. you have to beat trump with a candidate. a well financed candidate, as money is part of the solution, but you condition beat donald trump without a candidate. the problem right now at least is everybody and their mother is running in the republican nomination contest, a split

field helps donald trump. and the argument, the second point i want to make, the second point is the argument that the establishment forces on both the deep south on the left and now increasingly in what donald trump will surely attack as the establishment right are a raid against donald trump. it helps him, or his argument to his core followers, which is still the largest chunk, the plurality chunk of the republican base, it helps them with the argument that he is a persecuted figure, that he is a martyr, and that he is fighting for the little guy like them who are under siege from these various powerful forces. so it's not that -- if donald trump is going to get beaten, he'll get beaten by someone with a bunch of money. this is not in any way, i think, the guarantee that donald trump is going to go down, just because suddenly the kochs and others decided it's in their best interest and another candidate could win. in certain respect, it could help trump and hurting the republican party. >> as you say, you have to have

a candidate to beat donald trump. money is nice, but there's no candidate who has confronted him in a meaningful way yet. we'll see if that changes. coming up next here, it's been a rough start to the summer for millions of americans. some parts of texas have been among the hottest places on earth over the last few day. and you can see the impact the smoke from canadian wildfires is having again on new york city this morning. it's certainly not just new york. it is going from the midwest to the east coast. nbc medical contributor dr. gin gupta joins us next to talk about the health risks of this extreme weather. like the subway series menu. just buy any footlong in the app, and get one free. everyone loves free stuff chuck. can we get peyton a footlong? get it before it's gone. on the subway app. the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free

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welcome back to "morning joe." the smoke is back. not only in chicago but in new

york and along the coast. the air quality is affecting americans in chicago and across the east coast. texas, my lord, texas has been baking under a severe, early season heat wave. it is reaching triple digits this week. temperatures are rivaling the hottest locations on the planet, including the sahara desert and the persian gulf. it is spreading to the mississippi valley and parts of the southwest. much of the midwest and northeast are facing unhealthy air alerts this morning as wildfire smoke from canada blan blankets the region. let's bring in medical contributor dr. gupta to talk about what this means. he is a lung specialist and expert. let's get to the heat in a minute. horrible temperatures, especially in texas. first, let's talk about the smoke coming down from canada. how dangerous is it? >> joe, good morning.

thank you for highlighting this. this is something that we haven't had to talk about outside of the west coast of the united states in the months of july and august. the fact that the midwest, new york a few weeks ago is experiencing this, is bringing to light something critical here. air pollution, joe, in and of itself is the sixth leading cause of death worldwide. we don't talk about this a lot. the impact it can have on maternal health, we know if pregnant women breathe in air from wildfire smoke for a few days, it can result in preterm birth. we know children exposed to wildfire smoke, again, for a few day, might have lower lung volumes for the next ten years of their life, reduced immune systems. this is serious. there is clear things we can do to keep ourselves safe, but we are living in this era of wildfire smoke. we have to be prepared. >> it's a far more common occurrence, not just in the weeks ahead this summer, but

summers going forward because of the effects of climate change, the greater frequency of these wildfires and so on. so how can we as a country prepare to adjust to do this? what can we do in the short term to take better care of ourselves, to protect our lungs, but what are some things we need to do longer range, for people with vulnerabilities in particular, that this is the new reality? >> jonathan, i'm so glad you asked that. i think we have a graphic here for the viewers to look, to take them through. there are things you can do to keep yourself safe. first of all, go to airnow.gov. air now.g-o-v to check your report. it may seem hazy. the fact is you spend most of your life indoors. if it is hazy outside, make sure your indoor air quality is as clean as possible, so stay informed. if it is bad outside, it is risky to be bad inside. avoid physical aversion.

so many people still run when it is hazy outside. that's a bad thing to do, even if you are otherwise healthy. clean your indoor air. within the to make sure if you have an a/c, as an example, make sure you're cleaning the filter regularly. if you can, order a 10 or 13 filter. it'll catch the particles from the wildfire smoke much more effectively than the filters that are usually in place. that's vital. that's one of the most important things you can do. merv-13 filters. run your a/c as an additional point. if you have a/c, i know a lot don't, but if you have a/c, make sure the inset to the fresh air intake is set off. set it to recirculate. again, the merv-13 filter. you have asthma, copd, underlying health conditions, make sure you're feeling well, you have your inhalers and are

as optimized as possible. lastly, the masks we talked about the last 3 1/2 year, use them. n-95 doesn't protect you fully, but they're better than nothing. >> dr. gupta, good to see you. want to turn to the heat in texas. people in texas are used to be summertime being hot. this is 110 degrees, rivaling the temperatures in the sahara desert, the persian gulf right now, making texas among the hottest places on earth right now. the risks are obvious, but this has been going on -- this is sustained now for a long time. what are the people down there doing about it? how do they cope? >> this is difficult. again, a lot of these places have grid problems. if you have a/c, you have to utilize it. if you don't, there are shelters being put into place across the places in the southwest experiencing high heat. i know we don't have a ton of time. real quick, a lot of heat, it's not just heatstroke. there's cardiovascular compromise. we've seen heat impact maternal

health, resulting in preterm birth, and there is evidence that excessive heat leads to premature aging. there's a lot of ways in which heat is causing ill to humanity in ways we don't think about. important to get shelter publicly or, if you have it, at home. >> we want our friends down there to be safe and certainly check on your neighbors, as well. nbc news medical contributor dr. vin gupta, always great to have you on. thanks so much. some other stories making headlines this morning, the former sheriff's deputy who failed to confront the gunman in the parkland school shooting has been acquitted. yesterday, a jury found scott pederson not guilty of seven counts of child neglect, three counts of negligence, and one count of perjury. investigators accused him of retreating as the shooting unfolded inside marjorie stoneman douglas high school in florida in 2018. 17 people were killed in that attack. still ahead this morning, president joe biden is trying to change public perception about

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welcome back to "morning joe. it's morning. my name is joe. we're in the right place. there's the white house on friday, june the 30th. get this, half the year after today over, right? half the year.

2023, right? i'm still stuck in 1978, so this is a bit of a shock to me. anyway, let's bring in, for help through this existential crisis i'm having, jen palmieri, the reverend al sharpton, jonathan lemire still with us. jen, can you believe we're already halfway through 2023? >> i feel like the summer hasn't even started yet, right? i mean, it's been cold and smoky and not fun. but i'm also kind of excited for 2024. i mean, i just love a presidential year. >> yeah. well, i don't know, willie. i love most presidential years. i don't know. some of the buzz seems to be taken out of it for me. >> yeah, it'll be a big year. it'll be an important year. we have the paris olympics next

year, a year from now, looking forward to something to get excited about. there's a lot going on. we're going to be busy, joe. there will be no rest in 2024. >> jonathan lemire and i are excited, the end of 2023, we have an entire half of baseball season to look forward to with your boston red sox. >> yeah, it is stunning that tomorrow is july 1st, but i wish the year was going by even faster so we can get this season over with, joe. a lifeless outing from the sox. brian bayo had a no-hitter going, but we weren't hitting either. swept at home by the marlins. it is shaping up to be a long, smoky, disappointing summer up in boston. there's the infield hit, no-hitter in the eighth. bayo pitched great, but no one else on the team showed up.

yet another loss. >> another loss. rev, talk about what you're doing this weekend. it sounds pretty exciting, pretty important. >> well, the essence music festival, which is usually the largest gathering of blacks, sponsor sponsorsed by "essence" magazine. we have corporations doing economic deposits with black banks, to try to lift our communities with some economic policy. there's going to be a lot of message in the music, a lot of purpose in the party. 50 years of hip hop. some of the leading hip hop artists, but many of the civil rights leaders will be there. vice president harris is speaking today, was there yesterday. i'm excited about it. this is over 25 years now. i think this is this 26th year, and i spoke at every one of them. i don't intend to break my record any time soon.

>> very exciting weekend. willie, very timely weekend, as well, given the news yesterday out of the supreme court. yeah, let's start this hour with those landmark decisions from the supreme court, ending race-based affirmative action in college admissions. the court ruled programs at the university of north carolina and at harvard violate the equal protection clause of the constitution. the schools were accused of giving substantial preferences to black and hispanic applicants while discriminating against asian-american students. the vote was 6-3 in the north carolina case with three of the liberal judgments dissenting. 6-2 in the harvard ruling because justice ketanji brown jackson recused herself. america's top universities are reacting, promising to continue to pursue a diverse student body. one of the schools named in the case responded in a statement that reads, in part, caolina remains officially committed to

bringing together students with different experiences. while not the outcome we hoped for, we will carefully review the supreme court's decision and take any steps necessary to comply with the law. the president elect of harvard responded in a video message. >> we will comply with the court's decision, but it does not change our values. we continue to believe deeply that a thriving, diverse, intellectual community is essential to academic excellence and critical to shaping the next generation of leaders. >> let's bring into the conversation the president of wesleyan university, michael roth. also with us, associate professor of political science at fordham university, christina greer. president roth, you wrote a long response to the ruling, writing in part, quote, today's supreme court decision on the administration of race in college admissions is disappointing. appealing to a principle of color blindness, at odds with history and law, the court's

conservative ma jor tu says, "trust us," while it imposes its will on higher education policies. wesleyan remains deeply committed to admitting a class of students that will lead to a diverse learning community on our campus. by using a reducktive sense of how race is dealt with in college admissions, the conservative majority of the supreme court has challenged the university's ability to select and enroll a racially diverse class. president roth, help us. most people out there didn't read through every nook and cranny of the long opinion yesterday from chief justice roberts. from your side of this issue, as the president of a school that's trying to put together a diverse class that represents the united states, what does this change for you? how do you now approach admissions? how are things different for you this morning than they were yesterday? >> well, the supreme court has sent a strong signal to colleges and universities and to the whole country that we should be

following a color blind policy, while at the same time, the country is still racked by prejudice, discrimination obstacles put in front of people of color from a very young age. so this notion that we should have a color blind envelope for all our decisions flies in the face of the evidence we have, that some students have lots more advantages than others and that the country remains very much divided by race. so we have always followed an admissions policy that looks at race in context. that is, we look at racial disadvantages and privileges that other students have in the context that they experience in high school and what brings them to college and university. we're going to continue to do that. we're going to be very careful not to appear to emphasize race as opposed to other factors.

we don't think we've done that in the past. i see this as a government intrusion into admission policies, to defend a notion of color blindness that's at odds with the reality in the united states. >> as a practical question now, if you but yourself in the room with those admission counselors who are going through these applications, how does this change the way they look at an application? i mean, a student describes his or her race on the application, so what do you do with the information now? >> what we'll do is pretty much what we've done, is put the information in context. you know, it is certainly the case that there are some students of color who have had enormous advantages growing up. there are some people, students of color, who are from wealthy families and they have advantages. we put that in context, as we have in the past. the difference is we won't get that information at first glance. that won't be -- there won't be

a box to be checked. for us, that's never that important. we're 3,200 students. we can look at each application in great detail. we'll look at essays and other information from teachers and from the schools the students have attended, as we have in the past. i think the real issue will be for larger publics that have so many more applications, and they'll be deprived of a piece of information. i think the real issue here is that higher education and k through 12 education in the united states is still built on racial discrimination. the court is pretending that's not the case. the real issue isn't who gets into harvard or wesleyan. that's a tiny percentage of the students looking at colleges and universities. the real issue is how do we build a more equitable education system in the united states? this decision won't help us in that regard. >> professor greer, let's get your reaction to yesterday's

ruling, but moreover, just as you teach at fordham, how you have seen affirmative action shape the student body there and what its absence might do going forward? >> yeah, i mean, jonathan, you know, i have the privilege of being with students who are about 3 1/2 to 4 months in their intellectual journey. the whole point of upper-level education is for us to be in a classroom and tussle with ideas and not all agree. the whole point of education, especially a liberal arts education, isn't to have clones sort of thinking what i think or all thinking the same thing. the whole point of the intellectual journey is to strengthen your foundation. we can actually take ideas and look at them and see what you believe, what your parents believed, who are you? i'm trying to prepare you for the real -- for the world outside of the institution, so you can actually grapple l with

these things. i want to circle back to an important point president roth said. we have to look at this decision, which we knew was coming, it's a slow train coming into the station, but in the context of k through 12 education. we're focusing a lot, obviously, on the universities and the decision that affects us in upper-level education, but it's the inequity in the k through 12 situation we really must address. that leads us to these conversations when we're trying to build a really diverse classroom. that's diversity in all senses of the word. whether it is race, ethnicity, sexuality, geography, class, you name it. >> president roth, i'm wondering if in preparing for this decision coming out, you all looked at the experience of the uc system or university of michigan which, you know, went through this sort of, you know, negating of affirmative action a while ago and really struggled with it. >> yes, we did. we looked closely at those cases

and saw the declines, especially in black enrollment, immediately after the decisions were -- came forward. our admissions team has been trying to think about other ways in which we can build a diverse class. again, diversity isn't just racial diversity, as the professor just said. i published an article in the "wall street journal" a decade ago calling for affirmative action for conservatives at wesleyan, people who are applying to places like wesleyan who are from a conservative background, seemed to be disadvantaged in our admissions policies. i published that piece, somewhat tongue in cheek, because it pleased no one. conservatives said we don't need affirmative action, and liberals thought it was inappropriate to apply that to conservatives. the point is, people learn more when they learn from folks who don't agree with them. that's what we have to -- and have different life experiences than they have had. that's what we try to create at colleges and universities.

this will make it harder to do so. >> professor greer, we talked a little this morning, and i really want your thoughts about how this particular ruling, that really said race, trying to deal with race in these particular cases has implications in terms of race being a goal to correct past discrimination is unconstitutional. they cited the 14th amendment. i feel in a distorted way. and how this could have impact across more than just the schools and education. it could have impact in business contracts. it could have impact in terms of board seats and other things that those of us in the civil rights community fight for. because you can now cite and say, well, it's unconstitutional to consider race in these areas. talk about that.

and talk about the fact that we may get a second hit today if they come out against student loan debt. some of the same students that now got hit with affirmative action are having the rug pulled out from under them, may end up disproportionately from black and brown communities where the debt is put back in front of them, strangling them economically. >> yeah, rev. there are a few important points that you're making. you know, we talked about this on your show years ago when justice kavanaugh was appointed. we said, this is going to happen with this particular court. we know that conservatives have been working to dismantle affirmative action since 1960. they are steadfast and dedicated to dismantling it. this is where we are. it'll have great repercussions for african-american communities specifically, as you mentioned with student debt, because of

the lack of wealth cration we struggle with, because of the debt african-americans have coming from colleges and universities. as we think about this decision, though, we have to remember that all progress in america has taken many decades to either give us progress or regress. so i know many people are upset and frustrated, but this is where we sort of have to take a beat. we're allowed to be angry and frustrated, but we have to organize and get back to work to undo what has been done yesterday. >> associate professor of political science at fordham university, christina greer, thank you, as always. and president of wesleyan university, michael roth, great to have you on the show this morning, as well. we appreciate it. three weeks now after former president donald trump was indicted on charges of illegally retaining national security records and obstructing the government's effort to get them back, "the new york times" is reporting the federal grand jury still is investigating aspects of the case, according to people familiar with the matter.

in recent days, the grand jury issued a new batch of subpoenas to a handful of people connected to the probe. the paper points out prosecutors often continue investigating strands of a criminal case, even after charges have been brought. sometimes those efforts can go nowhere. most indictment investigations can result in additional charges against people who already have been accused of crimes in the case. the investigations also can be used to bring charges against new defendants. former president trump has pleaded not guilty to the 37 counts he currently faced in the case. we know now the identity of the key figure in jack smith's indictment against president trump in the documents case. the indictment highlights a meeting at trump's bedminster golf club in new jersey in august or september of 2021, when trump displayed a classified map to someone described as, quote, a representative of his political action committee. "new york times" reports the pac

representative was susie wiles, one of the top advisers for trump's re-election campaign. according to people briefed on the matter, first reported by abc news. at the same time, "the new york post" reports wiles also has a top post at a lobbying firm serving chinese entities that potentially pose a national security threat and help china commit human rights abuses. "the post" reports wiles' co-chair of mercury public affairs, which has taken millions of dollars in recent years from chinese companies. wiles has not responded to requests for comment. joe, that was one of the big questions, who was donald trump showing these classified documents to? now, we have the audio tape this week where we hear voices. a lot of ghostwriters for mark meadows memoir were talking with donald trump as he waved around documents he described as being from the department of defense. what's your take, though, on this revelation of connections, perhaps, to chinese business, chinese entities?

>> you know, the thing is, it's not -- it's not somebody who is a minor player on his campaign or a minor player who worked for him at the white house. it's somebody who has been a significant force in american politics for quite some time, especially in the state of florida. is helping donald trump's campaign. people often say, well, the trump campaign is being run in a more professional way than in 2016 or 2020. they point to suzy wiles. it is fascinating. it kind of cuts both way, jonathan lemire, in that if you're somebody like suzy wiles, the last thing you're going to do is lie to the fbi, you would think, lie to the fbi, lie to a grand jury, to try to cover up for donald trump. when he is doing something illegal and mishandling documents. it was a surprise her name came

out. "the new york post" attached her to a lobbying firm that lobbies for china and may cause a national security threat, especially if donald trump is passing information on to her. >> yeah. that is a link being explored by the probe, one that's still growing. despite charges already levied against trump, the grand jury is issing more subpoenas. this is someone who has gotten credit for how well he's done in the state of florida. also, the professionalism, if you will, that the 2024 campaign possesses that 2016 and 2020 did not. jen palmieri, let's get your take on this. yes, it's another moment of legal peril for donald trump, particularly related to susie wiles. she's the kind of person facing a dilemma about her own potential legal future, but

also, of course, having at least some degree of loyalty to donald trump. what do you make of the bind she's in? >> i've been in the bind. >> yes, you have. >> i've been in a situation. you know, politics often runs into department of justice investigations. on a few occasions, i've had to cooperate with the justice department, the fbi on legal matters involving former bosses of mine. so i have been -- here's what i know about susie wiles. she is not lying for anybody, right? this is not a person i know well, but she has, in terms of her professional reputation, you have to go forward. you have to be forthcoming. you have to tell them the truth. when you were in that situation, it's a little scary, too. you want to make sure that you are not -- not just answering truthfully, but being

forthcoming. and it's not -- you know, i think we're surprised when we see her name because you really -- it brings home how exposed trump is. it's not that surprising that susie wiles is somebody that the justice department is talking to, but then it makes you appreciate, oh, right, if they're talking to susie wiles, they're talking to everyone around him. two things about that, how exposed he is, because these are -- she's a serious person who is not going to take a bullet for donald trump. she's going to do the right thing here with the justice department. then also, if she was exposed to classified information, and apparently her firm has ties with china, who else saw classified information that might be relevant to people they lobby for or may, in fact, be foreign nationals themselves? you can imagine in the course of

the trial how the justice department, the prosecutors will start laying this out, to show how trump put us and our national security at risk. when you see the details, it clicks in, oh, right, they could really show the damage that he did not in the abstract, showing them, but how it could have exposed us beyond that circle. >> we've heard from the beginning that jack smith has more has more information than he's let on to. every prosecutor tells you that is always the case. here, we have a glimpse, just a brief glimpse of the recklessness that donald trump has shown with war plans, war plans. jonathan lemire, this is just -- or reverend al, i'll go to you, reverend al. this is when the tape recorder

is on for this book. we have no idea of all the days and weeks and months that we had some of america's most classified secrets, that he had nuclear secrets, secrets about america's weaknesses, that he had secrets about, you know, our war plans to attack. secrets on all of these things. we only know this because he let somebody record a conversation that he had. we learn in this brief second we have on tape, he's showing classified documents to a campaign manager. i wonder how much more information jack smith has through testimony about the documents and all people he's shown them to. >> there is no telling. given the record that all of us

know of jack smith, it would be safe to assume he has a lot more he is going to bring out. but i think that a lot of americans are beginning to see what many of us that have known donald trump before he was president know. the recklessness in donald trump, to be showing these classified documents, things that, as you said, joe, talk about about enemies of the country, potentially engaging in war, just to get braggadocious with somebody writing a book. they weren't secretly taping him. they were doing an interview for a memoir for his former chief of staff. he is so insecure and so in need of saying, "i'm legitimate, i'm valid, look at the information i have. i have really the head of the western world," and to have this kind of person in charge of the

country is a threat to all of us. i think those supporting him to go back to the white house ought to consider the mentaling of the man. >> you listen to the explanations he gives in interviews about what he was doing when it was evident by listening that he was showing these documents, and you understand that he knows he's cornered. if people want to go to jail for a decade, susie wiles, if she wants to lie, she can go to jail. the people who talked, and we've said this from the beginning, whether it's jack smith or whether it's the january 6th committee, they're all trumpers. they're all people that are around him. they're all people that have worked for him. if he lies, he will lie, and his

defense attorneys know, he just lies, he's going to get himself in even more trouble. the legal experts i talked to over the weeks, at times they were spectacle it would end badly for donald trump, all pointed to the tape that came up last week and said, "yeah, this is about as bad as it gets." they just -- they don't see a happy ending for donald trump in this battle with jack smith. >> yeah, it's getting real for a lot of people. this isn't going on a cable news show or a podcast or tweeting your support and lying for donald trump. there are real consequences, very real consequences you say, including jail time if you lie for them. joe, you sound spectacle of his explanation, that he was merely waving around plans to put in a new dogleg on one of the golf holes at bedminster.

you don't think that's what he was documents? >> most likely not. that's the thing, his explanations are so bad. what surprises me is how ill equipped he is to answer these questions when he is in interviews. every interview seems to be worse than the last. he looks more busted every time he goes onto the air. we've talked about it time and again. there's been admission every time donald trump goes into an interview. you know jack smith and his interviewers will use it against him. you get the sense when he thinks he'll be on tv, they get the popcorn, sit in front of the tv, eat and watch donald trump, see how much he is going to make their case be against him. >> just like in georgia, it's all on tape. there's not a lot of places to run and hide. you say, i'm a legitimate person and they were just plans for my new golf course. we'll continue this

conversation later. next on "morning joe," democratic governor wes moore of maryland will be our guest. he's a member of president biden's national advisory board for the 2024 campaign. we'll talk to governor moore about that and much more. plus, we are digging into an aggressive immigration law in florida. the impact already on the state's migrant workforce. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we'll be right back. the less t'. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.

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guess what? bidenomics is working. the pandemic was raging and our economy was reeling. supply chains were broken. millions of people unemployed. hundreds of thousands of small businesses on the verge of closing after so many had already closed. literally hundreds of thousands on the verge of closing. today, the u.s. has the highest economic growth rate, leading economies in the world.

the heist in the world. >> president iden touting the success of the economy, including in the state of maryland where private companies announced investments totaling $1 billion. meanwhile, in the public sector, maryland is experiencing a surge of investments in the state's infrastructure. joining us now to talk about those investments and much more, democratic governor wes moore. he's also a member of the biden/harris 2024 campaign national advisory board. governor, it is great to see you again. talk us through, if you can, what's happening in your state in maryland. >> great to see you. >> we're looking at the data point. historically low unemployment nationally. inflation ticking down. now, the president of the united states is saying, hey, things are getting better. when you look a how the country feels about the economy, the numbers are very low. let's bring it down to the state level. how are things looking there? >> yeah, it's important that people understand that progress

is not inevitable. it happens because we're intentional and deliberate about what we're investing in. the things we're seeing in maryland, in partnership with the biden administration, is we're investing in the things that work and the things where you're investing in the future. you're producing the results for now. for example, we're investing in mass transit and infrastructure. we're announcing an investment in the frederick douglass tunnel that will produce 30,000 jobs. we're putting the red line project back on, east-west transit, connecting people to opportunity in the baltimore region. we received a grant from the federal government for $267 million. i made a pledge to the people of my state, by the end of my term, i want to make sure we're fully wired in terms of internet access and wi-fi. this investment by the federal government is going to make that happen. we're investing in infrastructure, in people, by job retraining and job

re-skilling. yesterday, i was with the president's senior adviser for climate change in baltimore for a home retrofitting project that we're investing in together, giving individuals a pathway to work wages and wealth. making sure we're reducing barriers for businesses, for them to grow, thrive, and be more competitive. the numbers don't lie. we're seeing a measure of economic growth happening in the state of maryland. three great months of record growth in maryland. it is because we're moving in partnership with the federal government and the biden administration to be sure we're being intentional about making the results stick. >> governor, good morning. you just went through the progress being shown there in your state and certainly a lot of positive numbers economically nationally, as well. poll after poll suggests that voters still don't feel great about the economy. they feel like something is off. they have real worries. also, polls suggest, including by gallop, that they trust

republicans on the economy more than democrats. what do you make of that, and what could your party do to turn around those numbers? >> well, for people who express frustration, i think we have to acknowledge that frustration is real. it's underscored by a lot of not just historic but present challenges. we can't forget what we came out of. we can't forget about the economic and the psychological damage that happened to the average worker. i see it in maryland every day, going from western maryland to the shore, northern to southern, and it is real. we have to acknowledge it. the other thing is when people are looking at how we're moving in the state of maryland, moving in partnership with the biden administration, we're producing results. the plan we have is actually making sure we're focusing on job retraining and job re-skilling. knowing we have some of the best institutions in america here in the state of maryland. but not every one of our students need to attend one.

we'll create pathways for them to enter into a workforce. maryland is the first state in the country to office a service year option for high school graduates, to give them an opportunity to have experiential learning and knowing this gives a cushion for them as they're entering out of high school. knowing we can do things like build up and actually invest in neighborhoods and invest in communities in a way that's helping to address public safety. what we're seeing, frankly, from the other side oftentimes is not a plan, it's simply a playbook. the playbook is to tell people how bad things are, then to tell people you're the only ones that can solve it. now, a plan is being delivered and having results. >> governor, al sharpton. i want to ask you -- >> hey, rev. >> -- at this point, you're the only black governor in the country. i'd be interested in knowing your reaction to the supreme court's decision on affirmative action, particularly because i know your background of having

worked with a lot of young people and tried to get them toward getting a higher education. you and i worked together before you were governor in some of those areas. >> that's right. >> i know firsthand the sensitivity there. i also want to put in my question. as governor, you bring in the infrastructure money and others that the biden/harris administration has gotten through, you also wanted to have a fair amount of black and brown businesses be able to have access to contracts. does this ruling, that race is unconstitutional, chill some of those efforts in fear that you might -- the state could be sued if it has a certain target and has to back up, even though they did nothing to legacy of people that had affirmative legacy advances in education. it seems that they have done a devastating blow. i'd be interested in your reaction to both of those

questions. >> thanks, rev. you're right, i mean, this decision is not surprising by any stretch of the imagination when you know this court. i mean, elections have consequences. but the thing we know, even though it is not surprising, it's still deeply frustrating and maddening. the fact that the supreme court -- i mean, the constitution is supposed to be a living document that continues to grow to open up opportunity for people, right? that uses the constitutional legal basis to see more people and live up to the inherent values of this country. we're watching how this court is using it as a document to restrict, using it as a document to pull back. this decision is no different. the thing i know is, you know, i have spent not just the past 24 hours but even before them because we anticipated this court would make this decision, speaking with leaders in higher education throughout the state of maryland. we stand united in saying we believe that our institutions of higher education should be important and representative

mosaics of our society. if you really want to use them for what they're for, which is preparing people for the world they will inherit, it means making sure your campus exempliies and demonstrates the beautiful diversity of the environment they are going to walk into once they leave that campus. we are committed to it. we also know that we are already working to make sure that this will not have any forms of chilling impacts on the progress we are already making in terms of making sure there is minority business participation, women business participation, and veteran business participation in the economic growth and engine that's happening now in the state of maryland. >> as rev mentioned, governor moore spent his career before he was elected governor in poverty fighting and education. he knows of what he speaks. democratic governor of maryland, wes moore, great to have you on the show. happy fourth to you and your family. >> thank you. a looming contract deadline could see hollywood's biggest stars joining writers on the picket line.

before we go to break, this weekend on "sunday today" on nbc, my guest is academy award winner gwyneth paltrow. one of our favorite conversations, a summery fourth of july weekend spent with gwyneth paltrow, talking about her decision to walk away from an a-list hollywood career to launch her wildly successful lifestyle brand, goop. gwyneth paltrow this weekend on "sunday today." we'll be right back here on "morning joe." i brought in ensure max protein with 30g of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that. -everyone: woo hoo! ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. enter the nourishing moments giveaway for a chance to win $10,000.

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still kind of the middle of the night in l.a., 4:43 in the morning as you look at the skyline. 7:43 on the east coast as we roll into fourth of july weekend. as the screen actors guild negotiates a new contract,

actors said they would be willing to join hollywood's writers on the picket line. nbc news correspondent kaylee hartug has details. >> reporter: the screen actors guild may also go on strike. >> the i feel the whole town supports the writer. i think they're going to hang strong. it's really important. it affects all of us, and we stand with them. >> reporter: its contract with the alliance that represents movie and tv studios, including nbc universal, is set to expire tonight at midnight. sag actors president fran drescher spoke about it on "today." >> we have great hope we'll be able to arrive at an equitable agreement. we're not going to settle. >> reporter: her comments come after "deadline" reported more than 1,000 actors, including a-listers like meryl streep, jaquin phoenix and jennifer lawrence, signed add letter to union leaders, saying they are

prepared to strike. adding, this is not a moment to meet in the middle. >> this is the power of celebrity. we have the top, top talent, the highest paid people in hollywood, but we are willing to strike and say, "no, we are not going to compromise." >> reporter: among the actors' demands, higher pay, more residuals from streaming, and protection against the misuse of a.i. cgi technology is already used regularly, de-aging de niro and in "furious 7" to bring back the late paul walker. this could pause production on shows. >> reporter: season 4 of "emily in paris," "the penguin," and the final season of "stranger things" are already on hold. now, streamers like netflix are leaning into south korean shows to fill the void. networks are replaing scripted

series with reality tv and game shows. in a world without new scripts and actors on screen, more behind the scenes drama may be coming soon. >> just hours to go before that deadline hits. we could see writers on strike at midnight tonight. coming up on "morning joe," an anti-immigration bill set to go into effect in florida tomorrow. daniela pierre bravo joins us with a potential impact on one of the state's top industries. "morning joe" is coming right back. (wheezing) asthma isn't pretty. it's the moment when you realize that a good day... is about to become a bad one. but then, i remembered that the world is so much bigger than that, with trelegy. because one dose a day helps keep my asthma symptoms under control. and with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy helps improve lung function so i can breathe easier for a full 24 hours.

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american family on energy costs. [narrator] learn how the inflation reduction act will save you money. ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ ( ♪♪ ) constant contact's advanced automation lets you send the right message at the right time, every time. ( ♪♪ ) constant contact. helping the small stand tall. we moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far. (chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view.

do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch. a new immigration is set tot tomorrow. it centers around migrant workers who make up a large portion of the work force in the state's key industries. pierre bravo traveled to florida to investigate how the new law will affect the agriculture industry, of course, one of the

state's top economic drivers, and daniella joins us now. what did you learn? >> good morning. first of the effects of the bill have already started. immigrants without status are leaving the state and have left the state in fear of the new law. second, the implications of these immigrants leaving could extend beyond just individual cases. it could bring larger economic and labor concerns. >> translator: spinach, chill a little bit of everything. >> reporter: this woman is joined by other workers, coming from guatemala, but today she's doing it all on her own. >> translator: there were seven of us. the other seven already left. they all right left to other states. >> reporter: her colleagues have abandoned their life in florida in fear of governor desantis' new bill which will bring sweeping changes to the

immigration law when it takes effect on july 1st. >> we are acting on the strongest measures yet. we're proud of the legislature for stepping up and for getting this -- getting this done. >> reporter: among other provisions, it requires public and now private employers with 25 or more employees to use a federal e-verify system to confirm workers' immigration status, imposing strict penalties on employers who hire workers without status and criminalizing transporting undocumented immigrants across state lines. >> translator: in the pandemic, these workers were important. they were vital, and now they're being repaid by this slight from governor ron desantis. they're in panic. the news felt like an impact, a hurricane. like a tornado warning coming towards them. >> reporter: flor is one of the estimated 772,000 undocumented people living in florida, a large share of the agriculture

workers in the country. >> we know there's at least 130,000 seasonal and migrant farm workers who come here to work. now we know at least 60,000 of those workers are undocumented, but likely that is a conservative estimate. >> reporter: juan says he's already seen empty farms and, workers leave the state. >> i've seen it in homestead, palm beach, and in tampa. >> they're thought of as almost the employment of last resort, particularly for native or documented workers. given the situation in florida right now and really nationwide with our low unemployment rate, it's going to be even harder to convince people these are jobs worth taking. >> reporter: now having a hard time finding workers. she's had experience working with undocumented immigrants and worries a fear around the bill will drive even more workers away. >> translator: they're the ones with the experience. they're the ones who can tolerate the heat.

those with legal documents work in offices. it's not going to be easy. if they're leaving because of fear, it's not going to be easy to find more workers. if it's harder to find workers, business will go down. >> what happens especially for those seasonal workers that aren't set to come back until september, october? >> it's likely those workers, you know, they simply skip florida entirely on their sort of paths and when you have parts of that supply chain missing, it becomes much harder for the people who are left to do their job. you'll see further exits from the agricultural work, regardless of whether or not someone has a document status or not. >> what about the long-term consequences? >> a lot of the crops they produce could be produced in other states that are not going to have these same labor problems. if this sticks around and workers respond to it which we have evidence to say they will, it's going to likely change the geography of the agricultural production, particularly for the crops that florida is known for.

>> translator: what governor desantis has done is dehumanize immigration, of an underground world that already exists in florida and other states in the united states. >> reporter: i asked if she has plans to stay or leave in florida. >> translator: i'm not planning on leaving. i have my boy here. i have a son who was born here. i have a life here. leaving for another state is like starting from zero. >> i reached out to the governor's office for a response on addressing specifically economic concerns and labor shortage worries that we have been hearing from farm owners. their press secretary reiterated that this bill addresses only illegal immigration as they chose to word it, and that the bill is a solution to companies hiring them instead of floridians. but experts tell me, willie, that workers without status make

up around 40% or more of the agriculture industry in florida, many of whom work at one farm year-round, right? we'll have to see if migrant work force continues to shrink and what impact that might have on prices for consumers, willie. >> we'll keep on eye on this. thank you so much. still ahead here on "morning joe," back to our top story of the morning, breaking down the supreme court rulings, that overturned affirmative action in college admissions. also ahead, more than 100 million americans under an air quality alert right now as canadian wildfire smoke blankets a large swath of the country and other parts of the nation bake under intense heat. we'll talk to a health expert about how to protect yourself amid these dangerous conditions. "morning joe" is coming right back on a friday morning. "morning joe" is coming right back on a friday morning

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take a look at overruling roe v. wade.

take a look at the decision today. take a look at how it's ruled on a number of issues that have been precedent for 50, 60 years sometimes. across the board, the vast majority of the american people don't agree with a lot of the decisions these courts are making. >> that's president joe biden yesterday on msnbc reacting to the supreme court overturning the use of affirmative action in college admissions and, you know, willie, it was a fascinating interview. a little concerned. the "new york post" which of course, as you know, is "morning joe's" newspaper of record. people always come up to me on the street and say, why is it the "new york post"? it's very simple. they've won more pulitzer prizes collectively than any other newspaper. you can look that up. they have on the cover of online, like, joe biden walking

offset, right? it's like he kind of got lost and kind of, like, barnacle when we asked him a question and he walks off in the middle of the question because he wants to get to the airport and get back to boston. they act like biden was confused. no, he's just president of the united states. he said, thank you, and i'm going to leave now. people do that to us all the time, and they don't end up on the front page of the "new york post." i get it. he says, god save the queen. i mean, i'm a big sex pistols fan too. i won't end a speech with that. he confuses iraq and ukraine, and i get all of that stuff, but some of this stuff is just ridiculous. >> president biden talked to nicolle wallace at our studio at 30 rock. they had a cordial good-bye, and nicole is reading the tease to the next segment, and he walks by and that's it. there is a theme to certain newspaper, even the ones of record for "morning joe," or you

watch tv programs about joe biden suggesting there's an age problem, suggesting that he sort of dodders and wanders and he does misspeak and he talk about that all the time. it's probably not the most important thing that happened yesterday, and i think we'll get into some of that. >> yeah. >> we'll turn the page even though the paper of record is our favorite. >> exactly, and i don't know if people know this, but joe biden was misspeaking in 1987. in fact, he had to leave the presidential campaign in 1987 because misspeaking, well, that's just a thing he did. and does, and anyway, let's bring in other people who do not misspeak. they are professionals unlike me. former white house director of communications to president obama, jen palmieri, and also the host of msnbc's politics, al sharpton, and associate editor for "the washington post," eugene robinson. we're going to be talking about

affirmative action, the landmark ruling yesterday. just a shocker for a lot of people, but first, i just -- john, really quickly on politics, while we're talking about joe biden and biden getting knocked around, david brooks has a piece in the "new york times" this morning i thought was absolutely fascinating on why president biden isn't getting the credit he deserves and david writes this. the misery index is a crude, but effective way to measure the health of the economy. you add up the inflation rate and the unemployment rate, and a president running for re-election, and you want that number to be as low as possible. when reagan won the re-election, 39 states, it was 11.4. when barack obama did it, 9.5. for joe biden today, 7.7. biden should be cruising to an easy re-election victory. of course, you look at the numbers. he's just not -- there is such a disconnect between the economy -- his economic numbers,

in just about every respect and those before him, especially donald trump, and yet the right track/wrong track is wildly askew despite all the legislative accomplishments and a matter of record that he's put down there. it's really -- there is this huge divide between reality and well, perception. >> yeah, and obviously it's a huge challenge for the white house and for the committee to re-elect the president with a deal of how do you fight through that. if only there were, like, some magic elixir to help realign reality and history with president biden's standing -- his political standing and standing in the polls. i think there were two things going on, and two that come immediately to mind, and my friend jen palmieri can speak to this, maybe as dramatically as

anyone. just how different the world is today, the political world is today that it was even when barack obama ran for re-election in 2012. the degree of polarization is so much further off the charts. it was bad in 2012. it's been getting worse over the course of our lifetimes and it's a factor in our politics really. it's the case now that because the polarization is what it is, and because the media landscape is dominated by extreme voices on both sides and particularly the megaphone on the right is so loud, there's a distorting effect that bill clinton, that ronald reagan and george w. bush, and even barack obama didn't have to deal with to the extent that joe biden did, and then the second factor which is again, a central challenge for the re-elect which is fairly or not is the case that there are a lot of americans that are looking at the good that's going on. they're looking at the state of

their 401ks that have been going up, and all the things that have happened and all the accomplishments and so on, and still continue to tell pollster that is the fact of joe biden's age -- any president in his 80s gives them pause, and i think that's a challenge. hopefully from the biden perspective, hopefully it will be a solvable challenge, bit points to how stubborn that view is, including some people on the democratic side. >> all right. let's start this hour with the landmark decisions, two of them from the supreme court yesterday ending race-based affirmative action in college admissions. the court-ruled programs at the university of north carolina and at harvard violate the equal protection clause of the constitution. the schools were accused of giving substantial preference to black and hispanic applicants while discriminating against asian american students. the vote was 6-3 in the north carolina case with all three of the liberal judges dissenting and 6-2 in the harvard ruling because justice ketanji brown

jackson had to recuse herself. chief justice john roberts wrote the majority opinion stating both programs lack sufficiently focused and measurable objectives warranting the use of race. unavoidably employ race in a negative manner, involve stereotyping and lack meaningful end points. however, he did give admission offices an opening on the issue of race saying nothing should be construed from considering an applicant's discussion of how race affected his or her life be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise. justice ketanji brown jackson in the rebuttal wrote, with let them eat cake obliviousness today, the majority pulls the rip cord and announces this for all. deeming race irrelevant in law does not make it so in life. the court noted the decision will not take effect immediately. in a concurring opinion, justice

brett kavanaugh wrote the ruling would first apply to students starting college in 2028. so reverend sharpton, yesterday morning, and you and i discussed this. you anticipated this ruling. most people expected it to go this way. you had begun to walk us through some of the follow on effects from this decision. how are you looking at it this morning? >> well, i think that it was as bad or worse than i had thought. clearly the court in my judgment stuck a dagger in the back of many of us that feel that we need to continue to legally protect people that have had to deal with historic inequinequit. you must understand affirmative action started under the nixon administration written by rthur fletcher. this was after black by law couldn't go to certain schools, and by law were enslaved.

we are not talking about a custom here. we're talking about the law said we couldn't do certain things. i just spoke in jackson, mississippi two weeks ago where james meredith was in the audience. he's a much older man now. he was the first black to go to the university of mississippi. he had to be escorted in by the military, and that's just a generation before me. so i think that we are trying to act as though all of a sudden by some magic wand everything is equal. when you look at the fact that affirmative action was voted out in the state of california and look at the numbers of blacks and hispanics now in those top schools as governor gavin newsom brought up, it has gone down in high percentage points. so this is bad. it can also be used in the private sector is my fear because to say it is unconstitutional to have race as a factor, they can now affect

the minority contractors programs and programs that deal with diversity and employment and on boards. this could have devastating impact if we don't resist, and let me say this, joe, when you refer to the "new york post," when the president left this studio from nicolle, he came and met with me for about 10 or 15 minutes. he was probably looking for where his meetings were going to be when he was leaving. he was not stumbling around. the secret service was directing him. i think alex has a picture of him and i meeting. he wasn't lost. i think "the post" was lost. >> yeah, no. he wasn't lost at all. i mean, you could see -- you could see again, him in a hurry to get out of the chair and get out and meet somebody really important, and we all know that person, rev, was you. i get the picture from alex to prove it. as the rev was saying, even liberal states have voted out affirmative action. california, washington state.

the results despite their best efforts in california, you look at uc berkeley. the numbers are down. they're doing everything they can to try to have, again, the numbers of their student body just match up with the percentages of people in their state based on demographics so they have actually a student body that represents the diversity of their state. california, they're still struggling to do it because affirmative action was banned statewide by a vote, but this is, gene, is people have complicated feelings and mixed emotions about it. it's unpopular with a majority of americans even with asian americans, hispanics, black americans, but i noticed tyler austin hooper, a bates college professor, he wrote this in the "new york times" today about racial gaming. he helps kids get into college. he's a tutor and helps kids get

into college. the chinese and korean kids will want to know how to make their application seem less chinese or korean. the rich ones want to seem less rich and less white. the black kids wanted to make sure they came across as black enough. ditto for the latino and middle eastern kids. affirmative action is necessary to address the historical evils of slavery and its myriad afterlives and above all, that it is crucial counterbalancing and it's a prevailing system of de facto white affirmative action that rewards many academically mediocre and wealthy students by having legacy parents, being good at rowing a boat. they also believe that affirmative action though necessary has inadvertently helped create a warped and race-obsessed american university culture. this is one of the issues we talk about as it requires us to

use dialect thinking. at the same time, it redresses again, a lot of imperfections in america's past and present. >> right. affirmative action is or was the system that we were allowed to use to try to redress some of the inequities of the past because a sort of frank and honest attempt at remediation was never allowed. you had 350 years of slavery, jim crow segregation, discrimination, redlining, wage theft, you name it, and then you had the great civil rights legislation of the 1960s, and you had beginning in the nixon administration, a very limited sort of affirmative action

program or philosophy to begin to redress some of those wrongs, and then really quite suddenly in the -- with the decision, and then moving forward, any sort of ability to honestly and frankly and openly try to remediate some of the wrongs that were committed over centuries was taken away, and so since 2003, really the only justification that's been allowed for affirmative action and college admissions at least is diversity. not -- not remediation for the many past wrongs that compounded themselves over the centuries, and so yes. people have sort of tied themselves in knots to try to justify something that should

have been very frankly justified, and -- and then you could have talked about time limiting. if you actually made an honest attempt to remediate some of what was done to african americans -- >> right. >> -- over now 400 years. >> let's bring into the conversation supreme court correspondent of ""the wall street journal." help us parse through this opinion, and what chief justice roberts said which is that effectively race-based admissions policies violate the equal protection clause of the constitution, but he said,in an essay, a student of color can write about how his or her race has impacted his or her life telling a story about their own individual experience rather than a broad experience about their race. what does that mean exactly? how does a college admissions take this ruling?

which by the way, most have been expecting to go this way for some time now. >> well, it means that you can't make any assumptions about someone because of their race. that's what the chief justice was really stressing. he said, you can't say because this applicant is black or hispanic, you can't assume they carry with them some sort of experiences or obstacles or what have you. he called that stereotypes. he did not rule out as you say that if someone has been affected in their own experience by their race and he described whether it is obstacles overcame or particular pride they take in it, if it is relevant to their own personal experience, they're certainly able to describe that and schools can consider that in admissions. they just can't -- this is a term that came up during the oral arguments last year. they can't just check the box. they can't just look at it as automatically meeting something because an applicant is black or hispanic. >> and so jen palmieri as i said, most colleges had been expecting it to go this way

based on the arguments that were made actually last fall. they heard the justices' questions and they heard the conservatives and it didn't go that way. 6-3, and 6-2 the other would side this way and write this opinion. colleges are ready for it, but the problem is as gene and rev have been saying, we have experience with this in other states where racial preferences and affirmative action have been eliminated and it goes into these schools. >> really the margins are stark, too, right? it was that california for black students is a third of what it used to be. both sotomayor and ketanji brown jackson accused the chief justice of being disingenuous in saying that the schools could still consider race in terms of it being something that may have either inspired them or set them back, that that kind of

adversity could be taken into account, and the court specifically, you know, his opinion controlling the pen, the chief justice, said it was not setting new precedent, not overturning precedent, but how do you parse that argument from the minority side that this is the chief justice being disingenuous by making it appear that race could still be a factor in admissions? >> well, you know, it comes down to really the difference between the chief and the majority, and the dissenters about what -- excuse me. about what equal protection means under the constitution, right? so from the chief's point of view, it has to be color-blind. you can't make any assumptions, but people can talk about it in their essays and already they do. you have that commentary before that some apply cants, you know, emphasize their race or downplay it because they think it will have an impact.

is he being disingenuous? this is as important to him as the abortion case to alito last year. this has been a driving part of his position for decades. it's not some new attitude that the chief justice has. in 2007 or '08, he wrote an opinion getting rid of voluntary immigration programs in k-12 schools and this is the second shoe to drop in his effort to implement what he sees as a color-blind constitution. is he being disingenuous or does he want to take race out of the picture in american society? he believes that's what the constitution requires. not everywhere. there are some exceptions in other areas of law, and we saw him uphold part of the voting rights act earlier this month which may come as a surprise to some people. so i don't know. i can't get inside his head. i think this is what john roberts sincerely believes. >> yeah. let's just talk about what got

us here, the harvard case particularly. if i were another american listening to this conversation, i would say, wait a second. you want to talk about what's been happening to us at harvard and in other schools. you had asian americans openly being discriminated against because they were overrepresented in some schools because they had higher grades, and, you know, there would be personality scores and i think it was the harvard scores and the personality numbers where so many were just zeroed out to try to discriminate against asian americans and try to keep their numbers down on class. so you could have been an extraordinary student, could have had extraordinary extracurricular activities and could have been the model applicant for the process, but you were discriminated against by harvard. isn't that what got us here in the first place? >> well, harvard said, no, we're not discriminating against anybody, and these personality scores or what have you don't

reflect discrimination. they reflect the views of the interviewers or whoever. harvard says we're not discriminating against anybody. we're only giving kind of a plus to certain applicants, particularly black and hispanic applicants. the allegation was they were discriminating, and because, you know, it's a zero-sum game in college admissions, if somebody else gets a plus, then somebody gets a minus. yes, some asian americans felt they were being discriminated against,and the chief justice looked at the fact that harvard had sort of maintained the breakdown as evidence that they were use juicing the numbers to make sure they stayed at certain proportions year after year. coming up, we will continue our conversation on yesterday's supreme court rulings. former u.s. owner joyce vance joins us with her legal analysis of the majority opinion written by chief justice roberts. "morning joe" is coming right back. ts "morning joe" is coming right back

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let's bring in now, former u.s. attorney joyce vance. she's also an msnbc legal analyst. not a big surprise here. most people expected this decision to come down this way, both of these decisions to come down this way. what's your reaction to the legal argument made in the opinion? >> right. so the legal argument, there's a constitutional basis engaged here for saying that these programs that give a bump up to minority applicants have to come to an end and they have to come to an end now. unfortunately, that opinion

ignores some of the basic realities of the world that we live in, and justice jackson's dissent does an impeccable job of pointing that out. she says, in essence, the chief justice tries to decide that racial discrimination has come to an end in america, so there's no longer any need for these affirmative action programs. you know, we hear an echo here of justice roberts' decision in shelby county versus holder, where he says there's no longer any reason to have concern about racial discrimination in voting. these old statistics about low registration and low turnout among black voters, they no longer tell the story, and of course, history has proven that that opinion was dramatically short-sighted, that, in fact, we do have problems that continue to pervade the ability of black people to vote in america and that decision made it worse, not

better. i fear that that's the outcome of the short-sighted analysis in these cases where the chief justice says, in essence, this opinion puts a burden on black applicants and other minority applicants that write an essay that says, hey. look at me. i've overcome adversity, and they say this limited individualized factor can be considered. that imposes an awfully strong burden on your average 17-year-old or 18-year-old, writing their college application, and instead of permitting colleges and universities when they make admissions decisions to look at factors that contribute to stronger communities in these academic institutions, it places all of that burden back on individuals who frankly may or may not be able to carry that forward. >> so joyce, i agree. i certainly agree with you and share your concerns.

i do wonder what's your response not just to the majority's thoughts about asian americans being discriminated against, but asian americans talk about their children being discriminated against, and the students saying we are being discriminated against because this is a zero-sum game if you plus up one demographic group. you're going to subtract from another, and time and time again that's been asian americans certainly over the last decade, and of course, you look at asian americans who have not -- who have faced a different kind of discrimination, but from internment camps to just absolutely horrific treatment throughout the years, this isn't exactly a demographic group who has been -- who's been embraced throughout american history. so what do you say to american asian students and asian american parents who say, finally my kids are going to get an equal chance and stop being

minused, stop being zeroed out on the personality scores because of affirmative action? >> so joe, i think your comments are smart comments and they point to how difficult and nuanced of a problem this is because when you talk about college admissions, it's inherently a zero-sum game. some students are admitted. other students are not admitted and the central question here is whether there's a legitimate interest that survives strict scrutiny in ensures that black students are histoic impacts of slavery and discrimination don't continue into the modern era, and although that's tough in some way when is you look across the groups, what you have to do is have legal rules that permit universities to make decisions that benefit the future. i don't mean to pretend that these decisions are any more easier or simple than they are, but the fact of the matter is

when you look at the law in this area, not just cases about affirmative action, but when you go back to brown versus education, and you think about whether there's a legitimate interest in ensuring that black students can go to college, that disadvantages can be taken account of by universities which when you think about what they're doing, right? they're on some occasions giving some applicants a bump up because of their background. other students get those bump ups too. for instance, legacies. if your dad went to harvard, you get a before up. if you are an athlete, you get a bump up. these are nuanced decisions that consider a lot of different factors. all that affirmative action did was level the playing field by permitting race to be considered as one of many factors used in a wholistic decision-making process. that's what the supreme court has said can no longer be done. >> and by the way, speaking of legacies, john, the majority

also pointed out that this all could have been avoided if the universities had stopped giving preferential treatment to legacies and athletes. >> right, and i mean, you know, we're all familiar with this problem and it's really one of the more grotesque elements to the whole system of the university -- private university, the process of how they evaluate students and the legacy problem has been a problem for a long time, and joe, i guess my question for -- as i listen to you and joyce talk about this, the question that's been on everybody's mind politically over the course of the last 24 hours is whether this will have this kind of impact that the abortion decision there last year. there's been a lot of speculation from both directions. it's just for -- we saw the fallout from the abortion decision. we're all speculating about what impact it would have.

it was extreme in one direction which was to say that the degree of outrage over it in which it animated democratic voters. i'm curious about whether there's a similar pattern that could play out here as i listen to you and joyce talk about it. it highlights to me at least on the politics why i'm skeptical whether it would have that kind of impact or not. affirmative action is such a complicated, nuanced question. groups are affected in such different ways. the abortion decision was very clear-cut in some sense. a fundamental right that more than half of the population had for 50 years was taken away, and everybody -- the notion that people would rally the way they did around women's rights in that case, you could see the straight line. affirmative action is different because it affects different groups differently, and the application is much more nuanced and there are groups who you would think would be allies who won't be on the politics of this.

i'm curious about whether your. thought is this is another explosion in our politics and will affect 2024 or whether as i think this is -- there's so much complexity around this issue it's not going to cut as deeply as the abortion decision did. >> i think that the politics of this is it will cut deeply into black and brown voters. when you look at the decision saying that we in effect are ending affirmative action, but not in military schools. so in other words, you can go to the bunker -- i was reading someone wrote, but you can't go to the boardroom through being educated properly. a lot of people in the immediate reaction were saying to me, this is racially targeted towards stopping our progress, stopping to in many ways fix a lot of the historic discrimination. i think that you will see that i'm going to new orleans this weekend. the vice president's already

there. the largest gathering of black essence magazine. people want to mobilize now because the other thing that is resonating with a lot of people is that this supreme court, a third of it, 3 out of the 9 were appointed by donald trump, and voting matters, and that had there been more turnout in certain places, we may not have had those justices. you're going to see over the weekend on into the august 26th march, a lot of people saying, wait a minute. we are not going to have a country where you can get affirmative action to serve in the military or go to military schools, but you can't continue the documented evidence that it made a difference in our lives to have our children have a bump up to be able to go into schools that their parents and grandparents couldn't go to, and therefore couldn't help nurture their education. my mother -- my mother had to go

drop out of school in alabama. i was born in new york, but she was raised in alabama. she couldn't have homework because of educational skills. we're not talking about something just in 1800. it was a continuation into these times. so you need to remedy what was done by law, and i think that's going to energize a lot of black voters that might have sat on the fence. coming up, new reporting about the conservative coke koch network with the goal of defeating donald trump in 2024. "morning joe" is coming right back. 24 "morning joe" is coming right ckba power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades

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joining us now, the host of "way too early," jonathan lemere. i want to talk about charles

koch raiing more than $70 million ahead of the 2024 election in a push to sink donald trump. according to the "new york times," the network plans to do this for the first time in its nearly 20-year history. the koch network's goal described only indirectly in written internal communications is to stop donald trump from winning the republican nomination. back in february, a top political official in the network wrote a memo to donors and activists saying, it is time to, quote, have a president in 2025 who represents a new chapter. so obviously the koch network has been incredibly influential, john, over the years in republican politics pushing a bunch of money into elections they say they think can help to sink donald trump. unclear what that means, which presidential candidate it's focused on or backing, or if this is just throwing money away because donald trump is running away with this thing. >> there's a lot we don't know

yet here, will yet here,willie, but you're right. in recent years they have been opposed to trump for sometime, and he's given it right back and he also is less reliant on some of the big donors because he has proven so successful at those small donations and raising money from his loyal followers, including to get them to pay for his legal defense fee on more than one occasion. we'll see here though, that's a big number, and it does symbolize the somehow some -- i'll stress some republican-leaning institutions are really trying to move party away from trump. largely because of electability reasons. they don't think he can win again in 2024, but right now the anti-trump movement hasn't really taken off and it's not clear if they coalesce around one of his rivals and who that might be. ron desantis was certainly the great hope among many republicans who wanted to find a different path away from trump, and at least so far his campaign has not achieved liftoff.

he's 30-odd points behind trump in the polls and yes, it's early, but there's already a sense of real panic among the never trump republicans hurdling towards nominating him yet again. >> desantis has taken a detour away from winning. he has had a horrible few months. let's look at this, john. when you have the koch network talking about pushing $70 million into the stop trump effort, reporters talking about how leonard leo who, you know, inherited over a billion dollars for his political activities, is starting to spread money out behind ron desantis. it seems people with the most money in the republican party are uniting against trump in a way they didn't do in '16.

>> you know, they didn't -- they didn't, joe. you remember back in 2016 at least a lot of the people with the most money were united behind jeb bush, maybe not -- we'll see how it all plays out in this race. i mean, it's been this growing trend as we've observed over the course of the last few months. the republican donor class from the -- from the circles of those who listen to people like carl rove, the people out front, we've known the kochs have been kind of moving in this direction for some number of months. they kind of all have now decided they are definitely, definitely, definitely going to try to challenge trump. i think the problem is twofold. number one, with whom? you talked about ron desantis having his detour. you can't beat donald trump with money. you have to beat him with a candidate, and that candidate --

a well-financed candidate. money is part of the solution here, but you can't beat donald trump without a candidate, and the problem right now, at least everybody and their mother is running in the republican nomination process. a split field helps donald trump, and the argument -- the second point i want to make is the argument that the establishment forces on both in the deep state on the left and now increasingly in what donald trump will surely attack as the establishment right are against donald trump and it helps him or his argument to his core followers which is still the largest chunk, the plurality chunk of the republican base. it helps him with the argument that he's a persecuted figure, that he's a martyr, and he's fighting for the little guy like them who are all under siege from these very powerful forces. it's not that -- donald trump's going to get beaten, but by someone with a bunch of money, but this is not in any way i think it guarantees that donald trump will go down because suddenly the kochs and others have decided it's in their best

interest and a more electable candidate could win. in certain respects, it could end up helping trump and hurting the republican party. coming up, with extreme heat and wildfire smoke blanketing parts of the country today, we'll be joined by dr. vin gupta for what it means on health and safety this summer. "morning joe" is coming right back. his summer "morning joe" is coming right back i'm jayson. i'm living with hiv and i'm on cabenuva. it helps keep me undetectable. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva is two injections, given by my healthcare provider, every other month. it's really nice not to have to rush home and take a daily hiv pill. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or if you taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions,

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♪♪ scorching temperatures and bad air quality are impacting millions outside of chicago and the east coast. all across the country, texas has been baking under a severe early season heat wave. it's reaching triple digits this

week. temperatures there rival the hottest locations on the planet, including the sahara desert and parts of the persian gulf. much of the midwest and northeast are facing unhealthy air alerts this morning as wildfire smoke from canada blankets the region there. let's bring in dr. vin gupta to talk about what this all means. we'll get to the heat in a minute. just horrible temperatures, especially in texas. first of all, the smoke coming down from canada, how dangerous is it? >> good morning. this is something that we haven't had to talk about outside the west coast of the united states in the month of july and august. the fact that the midwest, new york just a few weeks ago was

experiencing this is bringing to light something critical here. air pollution is now the sixth leading cause of death world wide. we don't talk about this a lot, but the impact it can have on maternal health, pregnant women breathing in air for just a few days can result in preterm birth. this is serious. there is clear things we can do to keep ourselves safe, but we are living in this era of wildfire smoke. we have to be prepared. >> it's become a far more common occurrence as summer is going forward because of the effects of climate change, the greater frequency of these wildfires and so on. how can we as a country prepare to adjust to this? what can we do in the short-term

to take better care of oh our lungs, but what are some of the things we can do longer range for people with vulnerabilities if this is the new reality? >> i'm so glad you asked this. we have a graphic for the viewers. there are things you can do. first of all, go to airnow.gov to check your local air quality report. yes, it might seem hazy outside, but the fact is you spend most of your life indoors. if it's hazy outside, you want to make sure your indoor air quality is as clean as possible. if it's bad outside, it's likely to be risky inside. avoid physical exertion. don't go out and run if it's bad outside. clean your indoor air. look and see what type of ac

filter we have. if you can, order a filter that's going to catch the particles from the wildfire smoke more effectively than the filters usually in place. that's vital. if you have ac, make sure the inset to the fresh air intake is setting it to recirculate, that merk 13 filter. make sure you're feeling well, you have access to your inhalers. lastly use masks. they don't protect you fully, but they're better than nothing. >> coming up, we talk to erin

brockovich following that toxic train derailment earlier this year.

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he says this is not normal. what did you mean? >> it's more to unravel basic rights and decisions than any court in history. that's what i meant by not normal. >> i'm grateful to see the conservative majority we have built on the supreme court of the united states, bringing an end to most of affirmative action>> that is the absolute appropriate decision for the country. >> this is a day where we understand that being judged by the content of our character not the color of our skin is what our constitution wants.

>> reaction to the supreme court's rulings yesterday in affirmative action. it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast and 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. jonathan lemire is still with us. we have a member of the "new york times" editorial board maura gay. we have laura jarrett with the latest. >> reporter: a watershed moment on race in higher education. >> i think this is a huge step back. >> we can now rejoice over the fact that at least our kids can be judged based on their achievements and merits alone. >> reporter: the supreme court dealt a major blow to using race as criteria in admissions.

president biden condemning the ruling and the high court itself. >> is this a rogue court? >> this is not a normal court. >> reporter: the justices offering dramatically different views of the role of race in america. justice sotomayor delivering a blistering dissent from the bench for nearly 20 minutes. edward bloom, the conservative activist behind the lawsuits against the schools, praised the ruling. >> these obligations compel the removal of all racial and ethnic classification boxes from undergrad and post grad application forms. >> reporter: they may consider student essays about the impact of a student's race on one's

life. what if you're a black student who doesn't want to talk about it? >> we will comply with the court's decision but it does not change our values. >> reporter: for now, more questions than answers about what this decisions means in practice. >> let's bring in the president of the national constitution, senator jeffrey rosen. he's also a contributor at the atlantic. also josh gerstein. there's obviously a lot of significant cases this term, but yesterday is going to be the one that i think we're going to be talking about for some time. put it in perspective for us, if you will. >> well, joe, this is an issue that the supreme court has come back to again and again.

basically 50 years ago with the decision that essentially upheld some use of race as trying to improve diversity in high education. but as you know, there have been a lot of close calls for affirmative action here at the supreme court. justice kennedy, before he retired, saved the practice a couple of times. now you have a 6-3 conservative super majority. the writing was on the wall. >> before we get to the specifics of this case, let's talk about this court, the roberts court in the past couple of terms. joe biden was asked the question if it was a rogue court. he said it wasn't a normal court. of course, last year the term ended with overturning a 49-year roe precedent.

and of course yesterday 50-year precedent on affirmative action. talk about this court and historically the departures it's making from established law. >> when president biden said it wasn't a normal court, he meant in its eagerness to overturn precedent it was acting more radically than any court in recent memory. last term it looked like that indeed was going to be the 6-3 majority that was going to put a wrecking ball through precedents ranging from roe to affirmative action to the second amendment. what's interesting about this term, though, chief justice roberts in some way recreated the center. remember, he flipped from the conservatives in that important case involving voting rights and also in the extraordinarily important independent state

legislature case where he and k barrett ruled against allowing state legislatures to overturn presidential elections without review by state court. there's some limits to their willingness to overturn precedent. but there are many, many precedents on the chopping block looking forward. >> as jeff said, they have found the center on a lot of cases, not only a voting rights case in alabama, also a voting rights case in louisiana and again rejecting the radical trumpist theory on state legislatures having a monopoly say on election results. and this affirmative action case, obviously overturning 50

years of precedent and causing grave concerns, but politically this is a bit in the center, isn't it? >> in a way, yes and in a way, no. of course, the polls do show that many americans don't support affirmative action. that is a reality. at the same time i think that the ahistorical and frankly anti-black sentiment behind this particular court decision is far out of step with the views of the american people overall and where this country hopefully is going in the future. this is, i would say, as justice jackson said, it's a tragic moment for this country, because the court cannot by fiat simply create a colorblind america, as she said in her dissent.

the irony is there's nothing colorblind or race neutral about ignoring seven generations of white supremacy, racism, slavery, jim crow redemption that has disadvantaged black americans and many others and unfairly advantaged generations of mostly white students who are finding themselves at some of the nation's best institutions because they are legacy students. the fact that these decades of lawsuits have focused on black students in particular as being unworthy a remedy despite that history where the advantage afforded to legacy students who are overwhelmingly white males, you know, that says everything

we need to know about who is considered worthy in this country, about who is considered american, about our views on meritocracy. what does merit look like? i think it's a sad day. i think it's an ahistorical decision. i think unfortunately, as justice jackson said, it's actually going to delay having a society that we all want in which we are judged by the content of our character instead of the color of our skin. >> you know, following up on what mara said about legacy, this could have been resolved if these elite schools were willing to look past legacies and the special treatment they give to

athletes. that has skewed a lot of the numbers that actually caused this case to come about, but they refuse to put that fix in. this is, as mara said, certainly a terrible day for so many americans. if you look at the effects of 350 years of systemic racism in america, it's also for asian americans celebrating this because many asian americans have said openly and there have been many examples -- if you just look at the harvard case, asian americans unfairly discriminated against because of this need to fit a certain

number of people from a certain demographic into the student body. so many complex issues on affirmative action. >> no question about these elite universities who bend the rules for athletes for college sports or legacy students. we've heard some in the asian american community are very pleased with what happened, but others with real heartbreak and worry about what it could mean and could lead to a real decline in black and brown cases in college. we heard from president biden yesterday. he was asked if it was a rogue court. he paused, didn't say that, but said it was not a normal court. he was asked whether or not he'd heed calls from the left and

democrats to expand the court, that that has been something that had come up earlier in his term, revisited now. he expressed real reluctance to do that, thinking it would politicize the body more than it is now. what do you see happening now in the wake of yet another momentous decision that for many americans was upsetting? >> well, there really is a battle on the court between the institutionalist justices led by chief justice roberts who don't want the court to completely diverge from the center of america and justices thomas, gorsuch and alito who are willing to take the court to places it really hasn't been in modern memory. there are huge questions about race on the horizon, including whether it will be illegal for private employers to engage in race conscious hiring in the

corporate sphere. that's a crucial question of whether there's a majority of conservative justices for that position. but broadly, given the impossible of court packing, the fact that that is probably not going to pass congress even if president biden supported it, it all hinges on chief justice roberts and chief justice kavanaugh and his desire to ensure the court is viewed as nonpartisan to some degree at one of the most polarized times in american history. >> josh, this term not over yet. we're expecting a big ruling on student loans. talk about it. >> reporter: this could really be the most politically significant ruling of the year in terms of affecting people's votes. you have millions of people who have those outstanding student loans affected by president

biden's debt relief plan. the court is basically going to decide whether the president had the power to wipe out that debt or not. it could come down to some rather technical issues. it's unclear what skin the people who brought these cases to court have in the game. this is potentially maybe even more significant in the coming election cycle if democrats have a message that the republican supreme court took away debt relief for younger americans who have a lot of student loans. that's a big one we're waiting for today. then also a lgbtq rights case out of colorado involving the web designer who doesn't want to do work for same-sex weddings. it could be a pendulum swing back away from the gay marriage cases and the other case we've

seen from the supreme court on rights in the workplace for lgbtq americans toward maybe a more moderate, more conservative place on those issues. >> thank you so much. mara, i want to go back to you on, again, affirmative action and just how complicated the issue is. as you dig into it, you think you have a position on it. the further you dig into it, the more complex these issues come at you from all sides. i was talking to a conservative yesterday who has voted republican, i would guess, in just about every presidential election up until trump. she told me that years ago she was against affirmative action and she was glad when they assigned her to being against affirmative action. i don't have to finish the story, do i? by the end, she supported

affirmative action and she shocked herself. we've quoted tyler austin harper, who supports affirmative action, but wrote an op-ed in your paper this morning talking about supporting affirmative action, but talking about how it twists and distorts the issue of race on college campuses. you know, i hear people going yay for our side, boo for their side on this stuff. it just shows they haven't really dug into how complicated this issue has been through the years. >> that's true, joe. it's extremely complex. i actually attended the university of michigan in 2004 to 2008. i was there when the state banned affirmative action by ballot initiative. the percentage of black students at the university of michigan has plummeted since despite

enormous efforts to combat that. my hope is that regardless of where americans may be on the spectrum on this issue that we can all look at a common set of facts and history. i don't think you can consider the policy in a vacuum. we need to be honest about the fact that for decades, for generations there were state-sanctioned preferences for white male americans. also, jews were not allowed to go to many ivy league schools either. we need to talk about that openly and honestly. in my view, it was a perversion of the 14th amendment to essentially say that an attempt to remedy years of anti-black law is just as bad as the racism

itself. so i think we need to be honest about the history, the justices and the majority really were dismissive of that. i think they even said that jim crow was, quote, regrettable. so when you use language like that to talk about state-sanctioned tyranny and theft of native american lands, you're not being honest. >> right. you know, mara, you talked about what happened in michigan. same thing is happening at uc berkeley. california voters voted to ban affirmative action in california. you look at uc berkeley. they've done everything they could to try to keep the numbers up, and the numbers just are not representative. a lot of people will go to what is not going to be race.

we've got to focus on socioeconomic factors. black americans, if you look at the numbers, are disadvantaged for historical reasons. maybe that'll make a difference. let me read what the "wall street journal" wrote. colleges first look at socioeconomic status as an alternative to race given the significant overlap. it's a flawed proxy. there are more low income white house holds than there are low income black and hispanic households combined. when you say let's just go to socioeconomic, even those numbers are going to skew favoring whites because there are more whites in that area as well. so, again, i understand and i think this is the point. i continue to go on here and they keep telling me to move onto the next story. i understand we have a lot of stories to cover. i just want americans who are

watching who think this is simple and that there's a good decision to make and a bad decision to make, no. i think we can say here we have two flawed models that we have to choose from. both of them are flawed, but one actually recognizes 350 years of history. the other just brushes it away. >> yeah. listen, what we need to focus on is broadening the pie and stop pitting americans against each other. that includes allowing black americans to share in the prosperity of this country as full and equal citizens. that cannot be seen as an affront to white americans. there are people politically using that as a cudgel right now. >> no doubt about it. jonathan, we have more news obviously. it starts with the latest legal

news on donald trump and one of his top advisors. >> one of the top advisors for former president trump's reelection campaign is reportedly listed as a key figure in special counsel jack smith's indictment against trump in the classified documents case. abc first reported that suzy wiles as the person mentioned in the indictment who was present during a 2021 bedminster meeting when trump displayed a classified map. the new york post goes on to reveal that wiles also has a top post at a lobbying firm serving chinese entities that potentially pose a threat to national security. joining us now, state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg. great to see you again. first, the news that this grand jury in miami is still going on the classified documents case. more subpoenas have been issued.

suzy wiles, a pretty prominent person in republican politics, is in this dilemma because she has been identified as someone who was there when trump pulled out that classified document. >> the new subpoena shows that jack smith is not done. who could have figured that trump's personal attacks on jack smith and his family would have no effect on him. the investigation moves forward. the fact that suzy wiles is caught in it is a big deal. she ran his campaign in florida in 2016 and in 2020. she's one of his top national people. you could have the specter of trump's top political consultant testifying against him in a courtroom. i don't think she'll be charged with a crime unless he lied to investigators. but this is a script that would be too preposterous for a tv

show. suzy wiles went to work for ron desantis and they had a falling out. there's some bad blood between them. so now she's back working for trump, desantis's biggest rival, and here we are. >> what i'm curious about is the "washington post" talks about donald trump abusing his access to classified documents happened actually in new jersey. i'm curious why isn't there a grand jury in new jersey since that's where the actions happened? or can you have the grand jury in miami and then based on what the grand jury finds in miami, bring a case in new jersey? >> joe, if they're going to bring a case in new jersey, they're going to empanel a grand jury up there. this department of justice is good at keeping secrets. we didn't know about the south

florida grand jury until a short time before the indictments down there. we don't know there's no grand jury up in new jersey. we know there's been one in washington, d.c. i think of this as an insurance policy for jack smith and merrick garland. if judge cannon does things that are far outside the law, they could get another venue. they could seek an indictment in d.c., where the public there voted for trump with 5% of the vote, very blue area, or they could go to new jersey and do it there. there are some safety valves in case judge cannon gives the department of justice such a hard time. already it looks like there are so many delays the trump people are trying to have because that's their strategy. one of them is walt nauta, the codefendant, still hasn't found a local attorney and still hasn't had his arraignment.

>> why didn't he charge donald trump in the florida case with showing these documents? >> well, it's a good point. trump is being charged under the espionage act for the willful retention of the documents. there's another part of the espionage act that involves the dissemination. but the dissemination apparently occurred in new jersey at bedminster. >> in a way, that's more serious, though, right? the dissemination is actually the most serious part of it. again, if you're donald trump, you've got to be thinking this guy is not going to let me walk on the most serious charges. he hasn't charged donald trump yet for the worst things that he did if you look at the law. >> in a court of public opinion, i agree dissemination is worse than the willful retention, because you're showing our secrets to people who are

unauthorized. it's the same penalty under the espionaging act. you need to have the witnesses there to say, yeah, i saw it, he showed it to me. also trump's defense is now, oh, it's just bluster. i didn't show anything. maybe they're just golf course information or it could even be crossword puzzles. i think in the end they may bring those charges and it would be a real blow to donald trump and his attempt to say oh, this doesn't amount to anything, i didn't put anyone at risk. >> dave aronberg, thank you as always. coming up next, the new republican magazine is dissecting the 100 most significant political films of all time. we're going to have a look inside that special issue. plus, a record-setting

number of people are expected to travel for this fourth of july weekend, which will be a major task for the nation's already beleaguered airports. a live look at newark airport as we go to break. k at newark airps we go to break from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about all the vaccines your teen might need make sure you ask your doctor if your teen is missing meningitis b vaccination.

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i know i shouldn't be telling you this. i gave it to mr. sands. >> i beg your pardon? >> i gave it to stans. >> maurice stans, the head of finance for nixon? >> yes, in washington. now, what he did with it i really do not know. >> i see. were there any other checks now might be aware of? >> that's all i have to say.

>> mr. mcgregor. i'm sorry. thank you very much. >> don. >> yeah? >> carl bernstein on line one. >> i think i got a lead. >> i just hung up from him. it goes all the way to stans. he gave the check to stans for the committee to reelect. >> did he say that? >> he said it. i've got it in my notes. >> jesus! >> yes. >> fantastic. i'm coming home. >> i got to see that movie again. that was a scene from the 1976 oscar winning movie "all the

president's men." that classic film and 99 others were named to the new republic's list of the 100 most significant political films of all time. by my count, redford does okay on your list. i counted three redford movies, three days on the concord, all the president's men and this candidate. talk about all the president's men, how important that film was. >> well, one of our participating critics said it was a movie that showed the american people more than any over the importance of an independent press in keeping our democracy straight. i haven't watched it for a while. one of the great treats of having done this project is i now have about 70 movies to go watch. it's flawless from frame to

frame. it's so good. >> your number two movie, just a chilling movie with unfortunately a dark history. the manchurian candidate, such a chilling movie even now all these years later. but, of course, it got pulled from theaters, did it not, because it came out about the same time as jfk's assassination. >> that's right. it wasn't available to see for a long, long time. i lived in new york city in the '90s. i remember it came back to theaters for the first time in a long, long time. boy, what a great movie. that's my personal number one. especially that scene where they're brainwashed and they're sitting in the north korean sort of lab or whatever it is, but they're brainwashed to think they're sitting in that new

jersey women's garden club meeting is just a phenomenal scene. >> it really is. angela lansbury, it was a chilling performance. she scares you through the screen. maura, do you have any favorites on the list? >> oh yeah. for me it's always been the great dictator, the charlie chaplin film from 1940. when i was a kid, i played a lot of sports. my dad whenever i got injured, would set me up in front of the television specifically with charliechaplin. i have great memories of it. i'm so grateful for the message i got as a kid. he's a brilliant comedian. but really just the idea of empathy and joy as resistance. who doesn't love making fun of a dictator? full circle here, that's by far my favorite on the list.

i also love i am not your negro, which is a much more modern story, of course. >> yeah. i'm pretty proud of the way the list turned out in terms of the diversity of choices. we asked about 130 critics, 80 responded, top critics, "new york times," new yorker and so on. but we also sought a diverse group in terms of race, ethnicity and age. we ended up with classics like the great dictator and new films like i am not your negro. there's an emphasis on a certain period in the 20th century like the '60s and '70s. >> this is significant political films. that's why birth of a nation and triumph of will are on here. one of my favorites is do the right thing. on first blush, you'd say

political? that has nothing to do with washington, d.c. it is oh so political. tell us the importance. >> it came out in the summer of 1989. i was covering mayor politics as a reporter at that time. racial tensions were at what was then thought of as a big high. the movie just captured so much about what was happening in new york racially with that italian-owned pizza parlor in the black neighborhood of bed-stuy. it takes place in one day. boy, it just holds up so well. >> you know, there are two films on here that jump out to me. one is the newest film on the list "the death of stalin." another one is one of the older ones and sort of this idealized view of washington that i think

a lot of people carried with them for decades, and that of course "mr. smith goes to washington" with jimmy stewart playing the hero. >> yeah. "death of stalin" of course is done for jokes. but "mr. smith" is so enduring. life doesn't always work out like the movies do, but it's just inspiring to watch. his performance is fantastic. jean arthur is great, a great actress in her time. and claude rains as the bad guy, really fantastic as well. >> you can see the full list of the 100 most significant political films of all time in the new republic. coming up, residents of east

palestine ohio are still grappling with the effects of that toxic train derailment four months ago. we asked erin brockovich to come back and give us an update. she joins us next on "morning joe." she joins us next on "morning joe. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks. skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor for crohn's that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. the majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to.

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there are still experiencing headaches and nausea. new investigation of the accident suggest that is the decision to burn off the hazardous material on the train may not have been necessary. all this begs the question, when the constant media attention fades, will they get the help they need? we bring back erin brockovich, who's continued to work with the residents in east palestine. thank you so much for being here. we talk about the headaches and nausea that some of these residents are feeling. that may be the least of it. in my hometown there were toxins dumped into a body of water and 20 years later a disproportionate people around that body of water were getting cancer. i guess the question is when the media moves on, when the politicians go back to their

offices, how does a small town keep the focus on this and focus on making sure that environmental justice happens? >> well, it's a great question. and good morning, joe. thank you for having me on. it's really frustrating for this community. it's frustrating for communities across this country that this happens to, to keep up the fight and keep up with a total lack of transparency. what they're looking for is just the simple truth. we've gone through a situation where they said it was vinyl chloride, it was an open burn not a controlled burn, it's misinformation, it's in the water, it's not in the water. that in and of itself creates some of the worst scenarios for these people, because you're gaslighting them and telling them that was terrible spill,

but it really is a chemical that can't hurt you and life goes on. when they're still cleaning it up, when people still can't get back home, it breaks my heart when they call and say to me, so what are we going to do, just sit here and wait for the ten years to pass to get cancer? it's a terrible situation, and it stems from -- you said a real dirty word in my book, in your opening about infrastructure. this is something we won't talk about, that we're not looking at that is the root cause of so many of these derailments and our other environmental issues. if you were to be direct and honest with these people, it is vinyl chloride. it is dangerous. set guidelines, follow up on this community. you should have never let them back until it was all clear.

you could have saved yourself a lot of grief as an agency. you could have done the right thing by these people who are now scattered, misinformed, scared, upset, have nowhere to go. and when the media does move on and the politicians go back, they just think everything's fine when, in fact, it's not. you're right, we wake up ten, 15, 20 years later and we have a problem. public health is at serious risk here. i get very passionate and very frustrated by this. i've been doing this for 30 years and i have seen this same scenario play itself out across america in multiple cities in every single state. yet, we continue to do the same thing and lie, ignore it, cover it up and expect these people to

move on. east palestine is still suffering. >> it never works out that way, it seems. talk about with all of your experience, all the fights you've had through the years with moneyed interests, with corporate interests, talk about what the people of east palestine need and what we all need to do. what needs to be done? >> the railroads have them in hotels and they don't know where to send their kids to school. some of the kids are back in school. they're very concerned about their homes that they're still having to pay mortgage on. they come into a real financial crunch. what they need is the truth. it was vinyl chloride. they need the truth of what the levels are. they need guidance from their

local state officials, their local governor on what to do, where you could permanently put them. i mean, when we see massive hurricanes and destruction, oftentimes fema will come in, they'll set up housing, they will take care of school and finances. so they need critical things like that. but yet in this situation they've got none of it. they're scattered. they don't know where to go. they're terrified to go home. they feel like they're in financial ruin and they're dealing with their health issues. reporting that this is still happening helps give them support and motivation. they continue to show up at meetings. they're oftentimes told to leave the meetings, they can't be disruptive. they continue to get pushed

back. and at some point they just kind of break and don't know what to do. >> can you talk to us a little bit about the kind of community organizing that it takes to get the attention of local, state, federal officials to get help? unfortunately communities across the country have seen these kind of disasters big and small. what does that blueprint look like? what does a community do? >> i have learned in these communities every single time, the ones that break through is the one mom who's really upset she's been lied to and her child is at harm. they begin to organize. it's difficult because oftentimes they're left or move or oftentimes is afraid to speak up. and this is the one thing that i've seen happen, and it continues to happen to me. if you want to have a conversation about a chemical, an agency that isn't being

forthwith, regulations, failures of oversight, infrastructures, you're often pushed back on or they're intimidated and they don't want to come up and say anything because they think that they can't. they are continuing to go out there and try to show up, but it is about not -- oh, my gosh, this has happened to me so many times because you're told in these communities, well, you're not a doctor, and you're not a lawyer, and you're not a scientist, and you're really a stay at home mom, what would you know? that is maddening. you don't have to be any of that to be human to see you've been involved in a situation and your child's been harmed to speak up. a lot of times when these, especially women, mothers, find that center, that voice, and they'll come out and stay with it, they can get heard and they can get momentum. but it's not something that you can start in tomorrow.

it's a long haul, and it's a lot of determination, and you have to just keep coming back and keep coming back, and many communities will do that. you've seen the mothers in flint do that, and seven, eight years on, they're still showing up at city council. >> yes. and certainly they all have you, we have a little delay here, but i was going to say, they all have you to look to as an example of what happens when you are willing to fight back. consumer advocate and environmental activist, erin brockovich, thank you so much for being here, and i hope you'll come back soon. >> hey, you bet. how about you come out here, and we'll go take a tour of america, and you can really see what goes on in these towns. >> i would love to. i would love to. looking forward to it. thank you, erin, really appreciate it. and we'll be right back with final thoughts.

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welcome back to "morning

joe," you're looking at the supreme court, more cases going to be decided and reported on. we would expect in -- well, within the next hour or so, but jonathan lemire, we've been talking about -- i was just talking about the possibility of more challenges being brought against donald trump. in my post twitter world, because the commercials keep jumping up at me, i go through a lot of different sources. "the new york times" is first, always first. but i do go to drudge, and so i just checked on drudge really quickly to see what's at the top of that, and boom, 45 new possible charges, jonathan lemire, special counsel jack smith is reportedly ready to drop a hammer blow of up to 45 additional charges on donald trump in the classified documents case, prepared to bring additional charges in various jurisdictions against trump based in part multiple incriminating tapes of donald trump. the independent reported thursday quoting people familiar

with the matter. they're now writing a superseding indictment in part as a backup plan. but as i was saying to dave aronberg, forget the backup plan. if these are some of the most serious charges against him, why wouldn't -- i mean, this makes sense, this report, why wouldn't he bring more charges against trump? >> drudge report having a bit of a moment here, sort of a throwback with twitter taking such you have a dive. there is concern in trump world that i've talked to this week. they don't know specifically what it would be or where, and that's partially what makes them so anxious. there could be more charges here. we know that the grand jury is still active in miami. there could be additional charges there. there has been -- there's been some smoke coming, joe, you and i have both been told about it, maybe even a charge of dissemination as we know trump had those classified documents there. it just goes to show how much more legal peril he could be

facing. we're not even talking about georgia at this moment. >> and some more supreme court decisions coming out soon? >> yeah, that's right. i mean, i think the student loan decision is still pending, and you know, that's one that's going to affect the daily lives of millions of americans including friends of mine who are really considering, you know, changing jobs right now just so that they can afford these additional payments. so that is also going to add a layer of difficulty to the political season, i think, for republicans moving forward this summer. >> i completely agree with you. many of these supreme court cases that conservatives are hailing as big wins ends up at the ballot box as big losses. that does it for us this morning, ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. ♪♪

>> hello, you made it to friday. we have a big show just ahead. it is about 10:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york, and we're staying on top of breaking news at the supreme court. yet again today, any moment now we will get the final cases of an already monumental court term, tens of millions of americans will learn today if their student loans will be forgiven. the justices will also rule on a major case involving lgbtq+ rights and free speech on the last day of pride month. all this after the court gutted affirmative action in college admissions yesterday. we've seen this court fundamentally shift the way we live in this country and it may be on track to do so again. let's start at the court with nbc use julia ainsley. julia, what's the sense of anticipation like at the court this morning on this last day of the term with these two big cases still