overturned how democrats really galvanized many parts of their base. and ultimately, they got independent voters and swing voters because of that too. i would imagine you will see something similar independent voters reacting to this, voters of color and young voters in particular, turnout in response of how angry they are at these recent rulings. >> alexei mckenna, thank you so much for covering wide-ranging issues with us. that wraps up this hour. i am lindsay in for yasmin. i will be back tomorrow at two pm eastern. symone starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> greetings, everyone. you are watching symone. the supreme ends its term with a controversial decision that will have a profound effect on countless americans, including members of the lgbtq+ committee community, and anyone for pursuing a college degree. the court struck down programs

designed to create diverse student bodies at our countries colleges and universities. we're going to talk about why that ruling is so much better than just a college admission process. plus, the conservative-leaning court also presided president biden's debt forgiveness plan was unlawful, which means payments will default again soon. we are talking to biden's domestic policy chief about what the president can do to still give americans some form of relief for their student loan debt and much more. and when it comes to this idea of color blindness -- the conservatives want you to believe is their way of not seeing race as a factor in legislation or policymaking. well, i say they are lying. i'll explain why later this hour. i am symone sanders-townsend, folks, live from new orleans, today. hey essence. and i have got something to say. ♪ ♪ ♪

>> elections have consequences, and supreme court rulings have ramifications. millions of americans will soon feel the consequences of this nation's highest court final say of decision this term. on thursday, the court book 35 years of precedent, banning colleges and universities from considering race as a factor for admissions. the six conservative justices ruled these policies violated the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment, issuing a joint ruling into cases against the university of north carolina and harvard university, after petitioners said race conscious admissions at the colleges discriminated against white and asian american students. now, notably, the decision only addressed race, not any other protected class, and certainly not legacy admission policies that overwhelmingly favor white students. nevertheless, justice clarence thomas hailed the ruling as a

victory for meritocracy, describing race conscious admissions policies, that he himself benefited from, as rudderless, race based preferences designed to ensure a particular racial mix in their entering classes. well, justice ketanji brown jackson talked about that claim in her dissent, writing, those who demand that no one think about race refuse to see, much less solve for the elephant in the room, the race linked disparities that continue to impede achievement to our nation's greatest potential. the disconnect from reality that informed this decision will have consequences far beyond the reaches of a college campus. the new york times is already siding royal lawyers, diversity experts, and political activists across the spectrum, warning that, quote, the ruling will discourage corporations from putting in place ambitious diversity policies in hiring and promotion, or prompting them to rein in existing policies by encouraging lawsuits under the existing

legal standard. now, the court, well, it was not done. on friday, the justices ruled that the act does not allow the second secretary of education in the power to cancel student loan debt in the wake of the covid-19 pandemic. this is a move that stops president biden's ambitious student loan forgiveness plan in its tracks, and at least 43 million americans still saddled with more than 1.7 trillion dollars in debt hanging in the balance. the president has about to pursue forgiveness to another law, a higher education act, who warned it would take longer. and to not be outdone by their own decisions in a blow to lgbtq rights, the court found a website designer, who petitioned based on hypothetical, and by hypothetical, i mean made-up, or roger imaginary, a gay couple who never requested her services, did not create a website for same-sex couples. the decision only addressed services that were inherently expressive, with support

qualified as speech. but it leaves the door open to more discrimination. that's right, people. in just two days, the court that reversed roe once again left more americans vulnerable to discrimination, and entrenched millions further into a cycle of segregated prosperity. in his exclusive interview with nicole wallace on thursday, biden addressed the disturbing pattern. >> let's take a look at overruling roe versus wade, take a look at the decisions made, take a look at how it's ruled on a number of issues that are have been precedent for 50, 60 years sometimes. they crossed the board. the vast majority of american people don't agree with a lot of the decisions scotus is making. >> so, how will the biden administration move forward on its agenda in the face of a court determined to stall it? joining me now to discuss and her first interview as the president's domestic policy adviser is neera tanden. welcome to you, neera.

let's start -- how is the administration now shifting its strategy especially when it comes to navigating that diminished moral, if you will, in the wake of these decisions? >> well, the president spoke directly to this. he strongly disagreed with those decisions, as he pointed out on thursday. these decisions are weak, affirmative action, other issues, i really without any precedent. these decisions are the ones in which the supreme court itself is refuting decades of precedent, and really going against the majority of americans. and so, he tasked us well ahead of these decisions to prepare, to prepare and ensure that we had a strong response. that is why on thursday, the president outlined his views on how colleges and universities should go forward. and he had specifically tasked the department of education and the department of justice, as

well as laid out his own views, corporations should not retreat from diversity. diversity is important to this country. it's a founding principle of our democracy. and it would be absolutely wrong. there is no excuse for turning back on diversity, and that is what the president laid out. he put forward, what he recommends to colleges, to use adversity as a standard, really look at geography, as well as particular hardships that students are facing, including racial discrimination. so, he really thinks that this is a time for us to move forward, to not be held back by this court, and to ensure that we still have paths, ensure that we have diverse leadership coming out of our colleges and universities. >> so, neera, a couple of questions about what the president laid out, specifically as it relates to that administration's guidance,

if you will, forthcoming guidance, to corporations, schools, private sector, what are the conversations that you are all having with the private sector? because this has far-reaching implications. it is not just college admissions. we are talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives within corporations. we are talking about potentially programs that recruit at hbcus and minorities serving institutions as well? >> look, we've been in good conversation with allies for months. and we also recognize that there has been a concerted attack on diversity, equity, and inclusion practices. there is a concerted attack aimed at corporations, aimed at universities. this is part and parcel of an effort to really turn back the clock. so, that's why the president specifically said on thursday that this should not be an excuse. we've engaged with universities. we have engaged with some

rights allies. we have engage with corporations and other leaders. we should remember that some of the largest companies in the country filed an amicus brief on behalf of affirmative action. also, many former generals filed an amicus brief in support of affirmative action as well, because they recognize that having diverse employees, diverse military is important to our goals as a country. and so, as, again, as the president said, we should not use this. there is no reason to use this as an excuse to go backwards. companies should not fall victim to the attacks of the right on diversity. and really, there's a lot of grounds to move forward. >> neera, in the president's interview with nicole wallace, he stayed consistent in his opposition to expanding the court. he warned that it would even politicize it.

but isn't the court already politicized, the damage is already done? >> well, i completely understand, and the president completely understands the frustration with the court. and of course, he's voiced it himself. yesterday, he talked about that, the decision on student debt was wrongly decided. that this is a court that does act time and time again against the views of the majority of americans and really pushing our rights backwards instead of forwards. he appreciates the frustration. he does recognize, and has argued, that there is a significant downside to efforts to reshape the court. and we have to understand those consequences, but you know, we all recognize that there is that frustration. and we hope that you will see some decisions this cycle, or this session of the court, where it didn't seem to and

hear a little bit more to president. and we hope that the court itself will recognize how out of step and how unpopular it's become by being so out of step with the majority of americans. >> neera, i just think about the fact that next are, we know the justices are going to be deciding another wave of consequential cases. one of those cases will actually include whether people who are under restraining orders for domestic violence can keep firearms. i think it does beg the question, is there any supreme court reform that the president is willing to consider? maybe not ready to endorse, but is he willing to consider in a reform -- >> you know, the president had a supreme court commission, a commission on the federal courts, and they laid out a variety of ideas. of course, the president will always examine the facts and look at policies, has the court is a really critical component

of our democracy. i think this is a very hard issue to balance. and so, i don't forestall the option that there would be steps to be taken down the road. but i have to say clearly, the president's view is that this time, there are grave consequences to weakening a judiciary, that is an important part of democracy going forward. and so, there is an issue that we all have to balance. and he believes that the best option would be for the court itself to recognize that when it a pence precedent as it did in its decision on affirmative action 45 years of precedent, it weakens itself in the eyes of the country. >> before i let you go, neera, one of the other things that supreme court weighed in on this week was again this hypothetical made up case of a web designer. and i did not know that the court trafficked in hypotheticals. in the wake of that ruling, what will the white house be doing to inflate lgbtq+ folks

from further discrimination? the court has signaled in many different ways that they are essentially, there are people who are concerned that obergefell is on the line, a landmark decision that codified same-sex marriage? >> this is a time where we also recognize that the experience of lgbtq americans, many are feeling under attack, conservative politicians are launching attacks across the country. there have been over 500 legislations filed that really target lgbtq americans in state legislatures across the country. that is why, earlier this month, the president outlined a series of initiatives to protect the lgbtq community, tasking that department of justice, doj wide initiative to protect lgbtq americans. the department of justice has actually been engaged in

litigation, and that has borne fruit, and really, striking down laws that are really focused on taking away rights from lgbtq americans, some laws targeting the transgender community. so, the president will do everything he can to ensure that we protect all americans. and it is unfortunate that the supreme court would choose to be a defender of equal protection, has become a bulwark against it. >> all right, neera tanden, think you very much for your time. i look forward to chatting you again very soon. appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> up next, folks -- how will america's colleges maintain a commitment to diversity now that the supreme court, frankly made it that much harder? well, the new president of -- college joins me next to answer that, and to share her message to students, after this crazy chaotic week. but, first, our best colleague is here, my colleague richard

lui with today's other top news stories. richard, what do you have? >> what a week, symone. good afternoon to you. some stories we are watching for you on this saturday. mass arrests and protests raging in france. this fourth night of chaos is a response to police killing a 17 year old boy during a traffic stop. his funeral was this morning. france interior ministry saying 1400 arrests were made, and 70 police officers injured so far. biden administration report says the state department failed to plan or respond quickly enough to the collapse of afghanistan. the review blames that the trump and biden administration's efforts before and after the august 2021 departure of u.s. forces, the u.s. evacuated an estimated 124,000 afghans from the country thereafter. and extreme heat and unhealthy air cast a shadow over the fourth of july holiday weekend. parts of the south and those are brutal heat waves, including brutal digitized in southern california. some of the northeast could also see more unhealthy air quality due to ongoing

wildfires in canada. we've got more symone for you right after this break. ♪ ♪ ♪ r heritage is ingrained in our skin. and even when we metamorphosize into our new evolved form, we carry that spirit with us. because you can take alfa romeo out of italy. but you best believe, you can't take the italy out of an alfa romeo. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist

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switch today. education rulings this week come out and challenging moment for educators. there are a number of republican lawmakers restricting lessons on black history. parent groups are protesting over so-called critical race theory. and books are being banned from

classrooms and libraries. the removal of race conscious admissions policies and that striking down of president biden's student loan forgiveness program, they're adding another threat to diversity and education, and challenges for administrators, as justice ketanji brown jackson wrote in her dissent, quote, deeming raced irrelevant in law does not make it so in life. although former race linked legal barriers are gone, race still matters to the lived experiences of all americans in many ways, and today's ruling makes things worse not better. joining me now to discuss is the new president of mount holy all college, danielle hawley, who previously served as the dean of howard university school of law. today, president holly becomes the first black woman to serve as president of mount holy oak college. congratulations to you, madam president. i know it's your first day. but i could imagine you had been anticipating these rulings from the court. what is your plan for maintaining a commitment to

diversity while still following the letter of the law? >> you know, i think most colleges and universities began preparing for these rulings over a year ago, when we know that the supreme court was planning to issue these cases. the supreme court decided race conscious admissions were constitutional many times over, so when the court composition change, and they took these cases, the presumption was they would overturn affirmative action and that's exactly what we saw them do. so we at holyoke we have a very strong plan for being able to maintain our commitment to racial and ethnic diversity. and in fact, all kinds of diversity, which is, first, stick to our values admission. we know that having a richly diverse student body is the cornerstone of what makes what we do here at mount holyoke special, so keeping that value is the first thing that colleges and universities can do to overcome the many obstacles that have been set up by the supreme court in this ruling. >> it's my understanding that

in the wake of this ruling, you, like many other presidents across the country of universities and colleges, sent a message to students and faculty. what did that message say? >> you know, my message to students and faculty said mount holyoke is a place that empowers you. and it's a place that empowers students to be the best of who they are. and that means, the whole student. as justice jackson said, and i thought the quote that you showed is so important, is that we know whether or not the supreme court deems race to be important in the law. and we saw justice roberts, you know, in a really tone deaf way, saying, we have to eliminate discrimination by eliminating all racial discrimination. and eliminating structural racism and the impact of race it has on the lives of everyday people doesn't happen with a wave of a wand. we know that is it it's necessary to really think about who students are in terms of their whole person. and that race is a huge part of

whether students have access to equal opportunity in k-12. whether they will have access to scholarship money to be able to come to college, all of those things are impacted by the lived experiences of our students, and that includes the racial and ethnic backgrounds. >> i want to turn to student loans, if you will, in the wake of the ruling from the supreme court, president biden responded -- i just spoke with his domestic policy adviser neera tanden about this. so, the new biden well forgiveness plan, he announced a 12 month forbearance option, and a revised income based repayment plan that lowers the payment capita on the loans to 5% of disposable income. it also eliminates the interest not covered by borrowers payments. it also begets forgiveness to borrowers with loans of $12,000 or less after ten years. do you think this new plan goes far enough? and what effect -- do you see

it having a substantial effect on folks who are low income, with loans, who really do need forgiveness to get out from under the weight of that? >> i really think it's important that president biden stated his continuing commitment to relieving students from's loans. we know that student loan debt disproportionately impact people of color and people from low income communities. so, while it's not exactly what we would have wanted to see in terms of the debt relief program that came from the heroes act, i think the commitment to try this again under the higher education act, and the steps that biden announced yesterday i think are two important pieces that we have. what we don't want to see affirmative action rulings do, and the student debt ruling do together is to discourage students of color, particularly black, latino, latina students from either thinking about higher education. and we've seen that the access to higher education is really

an issue for both of those communities. and i think it's important that president biden at least take the steps that he can right now, as they are figuring out how to move forward to the higher education act to have some relief for students of color, for all students, but i think particularly the communities that are impacted most by these questions of student debt. >> danielle holley, the new president of mount holyoke college, thank you very much for your time. >> thank you for having me. >> absolutely. up next, folks, we've been talking about it. but we have some legal minds. i've got a really great panel to unpack that consequences of the last two days and some of the biggest questions that we still have, like how much good those supreme court rulings bolster that war that's already been raged against diversity, equity, and inclusion programs. and how about how these decisions will be enforced? stick around. ♪ ♪ ♪ got myplan, the game-changing new plan that lets her pick exactly

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parenthood versus casey, and we affirmed many times that casey's precedent on precedent. >> they are constrained by the words of the constitution. they are constrained by the president of other justices that become part of the rule of law that they must apply. >> if i stick with this later is declining what the law is but what they would like it to be the very idea of a government for the people and for the people would be at risk.

>> now, what you just heard were three conservative, now supreme court justices, during confirmation hearings. and they were speaking of the importance of precedent. precedent is a principle or will establish in a prior supreme court decision. and it is something that justices have historically used as a guide before issuing their own rulings in similar cases. so, the decision to overturn precedence is never, or should never be taken lightly. but with the reversal of roe v. wade, planned parenthood versus casey, and the most recent banning of race conscious college admissions practices, we are seeing a court of north by the justice of its predecessors. six consecutive justices appear to be standing, ready to abandon long-standing precedent and the will of the people the court claims to serve. here now to discuss, if i got that right, and the impact of these rulings are paul butler.

he is a former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, and a teacher. fall is in the classroom. and elie mystal is here. he is a justice correspondent for the nation. i always like when you are introduced, because one can argue the nation is the country not just the patriot you are for, elie. i'm gonna start with you. i want to get your reaction to the scope of these rulings, the impact on the country. but i don't know if you got a chance to listen to my interview with neera tanden. and in that interview, she noted that the president had a commission to look at the supreme court and what to do. you know, he is thoroughly and thoughtfully thinking about this issue. but i do want to note for folks that the commission was not asked to provide policy ideas or recommendations but they were tasked to produce a count for the role of the supreme court. and i also think the impact of any changes that could come about to it. your thoughts on this? because i think you have some.

>> yeah, no, that commission was not tasked -- it was not filled with the right people or tasked with the right mandate. joe biden yesterday or friday said that he doesn't want to expand the court because he doesn't want to see it become politicized. was he paying attention this week. did he see what just happened? i mean there is no more politicization than you can have in this court where in the affirmative action decision, they overturned a policy, not a federal mandate, a policy used by colleges and universities declaring that unconstitutional in direct contravention of the points of the 14th amendment. you can't get more political than that. certainly in the lgbtq case that we saw, what we have is neil gourds gorsuch and the six conservatives creating a new exception to public accommodations lost. public accommodation, that's why people who look like us can't go into a store and get served. those are those laws. and neil gorsuch now says that,

no, no, no, if jesus tells you that you can't serve people, then all of a sudden, that becomes a new way to puncture secular public accommodation laws, and then, certainly, there is no more political decision than student debt relief decision where biden used an authorization from congress to relieve 400 billion dollars of debt to 43 million americans, and the court simply didn't like the policy. so, they ignored biden's authority. they ignored the will of congress and threw the policy away. those are three hyper political decisions. so, biden thinks that he's worried about the court becoming political, don't worry, mister president, because that court has left the barn 23 years ago. >> yeah, paul, lot of folks would say that the court is already politicized. we talked about this commission, that commission, that racial report they issued.

and basically, they did endorsed an advisory code code of ethics for the court, something that we have talked about, advising changes in the management of the court's emergency docket, recommending public audio of the court arguments and opinion and ounce months to be simultaneously released. that last part is at least happening. but when it comes to these decisions that are of consequential changes to peoples lives, i just have to think that the legal community at least right now is saying that something may need to be done, right? >> the question is what. if you read justice sotomayor's dissent in the lgbt case, it's brilliant. she knows that whenever a group that's been shut out finally gets constitutional protections, there is always a conservative backlash. it happened in a civil rights movement. it happened in the women's rights movement.

and now, it's happening in the lgbtq community. the difference now, justice sotomayor says, is that at one time, we had a brave supreme court justices who were willing to follow the constitution. but now, we have justices like alito, thomas, and neil gorsuch who want to return us to the bad old days when straight white men ran the country. >> let's talk specifically about some of these cases. in the admissions case, elie, chief justice roberts assured in the majority opinion that students could still discuss in admissions essays, for example, how race has impacted their lives. but it was news to me that college admission essays were actually on the purview of the highest court in the land. >> well, symone, they are not. and you are right to point out that it's kind of ridiculous for roberts to say that you still consider diversity. i'm just taking away that tool with which you use to consider

diversity, affirmative action. but i want to say this other point, symone, right? we've all written college essays, you know? my college essay did not talk about the way racism affected me and my life, because one of the things i want to talk about, right? i want to talk about my academic accomplishments. i didn't want to waste time in my-limited word count essay explaining what racism is to an admissions counselor. that's a heavy burden. in law, we call that burden shifting from a job that should be done by the admissions folks to the shoulders of 17 and 18 year old black kids who have a lot of other things they might want to express, other than explaining the historical 16 19 effects of racism on their president, you know, high school lives. so, again, roberts opinion there, it is a assaulting, on top of it being a misrepresentation of the 14th amendment and the law. >> i had something to say on

this show a little while back, on may 13th, about just that impact of a lot of these decisions. i want you to hear what i said specifically about the decision on race conscious admissions policy. >> if the supreme court decides that race conscious decision-making or policies are unconstitutional, then everything from special government contracts and programs for minority-owned businesses, to targeted corporate recruitment, hbcus, all in jeopardy. medical institutions, and they would need to figure out how to include a diversity in their workforce without liability. lawmakers, they can argue that specialized disciplines like african americans, or latin american history our race conscious, and therefore, illegal. >> paul, what do you think? without being too dramatic -- was i being too traumatic? >> you are spot on, symone. not even to elementary or high schools, but it's going to have

a chilling effect on any institution that has used diversity to try to compensate for decades of shutting out people of color. the same day that the case was decided, law firms sent emails to companies, saying that they needed to reevaluate their diversity and inclusion programs that same day. and this decision is going to have a chilling effect that many institutions, which frankly who are not all that committed to diversity in the first place. now, they may eliminate recruiting programs and scholarships design for people of color, just because they are scared that they are going to get sued. >> okay, i want to move this to the long case, because the biden administration will now pursue forgiveness to the higher education act, that is a change. and i want to call attention to justice elena kagan's dissent in this case. this is what she wrote. she says, the court, by

deciding this case, exercises authority it does not have. it violates the constitution. elie, this is a justice saying that they've everybody she sits on was acting unconstitutionally in deciding the case. what is the significance of that statement? >> she's absolutely right. and not only were they violating their constitutional mandate, the supreme court, they were also violating themselves. one of the points that i've made is that if you look at john roberts history, when it comes to executive power during national emergencies, the nebraska case, the student loan case, is not the most famous roberts ruling on that case. the most famous roberts ruling is the muslim ban. and what we saw during the muslim ban was donald trump than people based on the country that they come from, if that country happens to be a majority muslim nation. and john roberts said that was a fine use of national emergency powers, literally saying that trump did not need an explicit mandate from congress to be allowed to do that under the immigration act.

now, fast forward to a president not trying to be bigoted towards people, but a president trying to help people, then all of a sudden, john roberts, same guy, they are related, same guy, he says no, no, no, the president can do that unless congress explicitly mandates that he can. note the heroes act that biden used, said specifically, and i'm quoting, the secretary of education can wave or modify student financial structures right? that's what biden did. he modified, he waved $10,000 worth of debt. roberts says no, no, no, you need to be more explicit to grant a power from congress to do that. this court is off the chain. like, i don't know how to say it. they are not bound by logic or reason or facts or the constitution. they are unbound, and they're gonna keep doing this until people stop them. >> if i had edges, they would be gone. elie mystal, paul butler, thank

you both very much. coming up, y'all, i think it's very clear that a number of republican politicians, even some supreme court justices, people, maybe in your community, under the impression that america is a color blind nation. i'm going to explain exactly why they are wrong, next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ it tastes totally off-limits. but with only 4 grams of net carbs in every delicious serving, you've got the green light. better starts with breyers. every day, more dog people are deciding it's time for a fresh approach to pet food. developed with vets. made from real meat and veggies. portioned for your dog. and delivered right to your door. it's smarter, healthier pet food.

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we're not gonna try to give you up by your skin color. >> there's a theme to what you just heard, color blindness. color blindness is an ideology that frankly conservatives have used since at least in the 1970s as an argument against affirmative action. for example, southern journalist james patrick, who was a former arch secretary segura segregationist, he supported color blindness in order to oppose affirmative action and school busing. he accuses opponents of being the ones with the racist attitude since they refused to move past the color issue. neil patrick mast his bigotry and color blindness and went on to become a nationally syndicated columnist a celebrity commentator on television news programs. he even appeared as a host on 60 minutes. this idea of color blindness, folks, is actually an extension, not the opposite, but an

extension of white supremacist ideology, and an extension of racism. it is a form of racism, as justice ketanji brown jackson wrote in her dissent to the affirmative action ruling that we've been discussing throughout the show today. america has never been colour-blind. and frankly, we need to stop kidding ourselves. i'm a black woman, as i like to say one word, the color blind belief, ideology, this notion that we are all the same, we're not. people are different. and our differences are what make us stronger. people bringing their whole selves to every room that they enter, every table that they sit at, every job that they take makes a difference. but, you and i both know that people of color, it's happened too many of us who are people of color. i remember very vividly in 2015

working on my first presidential campaign, going to a dinner with some senior members of the team and some consultants, and during a conversation, talking about campaigns, a consultant looked at me and said to my face, well, you are only here because you are black! i was thinking about that. i asked, was you serious? he said, yes, let's just be honest. no one's gonna pay you much money again for a very long time. you need to go out and get some experience, perhaps, and the next cycle you need to be done with this race. you are here because you are black. it wasn't the first time that someone had asserted i was only at the table because i was a person of color, but the person that said this to me assumed that i was not qualified for the job i was hired for. he assumed that i did not did the work to sit at the table that i was sitting at. he incorrectly assumed that affirmative action gives people

who haven't done any work. i hear this story emits this entire conversation about color blindness which i just feel is a dishonest attempt to push the conversation we should be having to the site. and the conversation we should be having is that at a time when the very history -- we are books are being banned, where children are being tall lies in classrooms about the founding of our nation. it is imperative that we speak truth. and the truth is you and i both know that america has never been colour-blind. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. morphosize into our new evolved form, we carry that spirit with us.

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entrepreneurs, creators, and business leaders. i recently sat down with -- the editorial lead for forbes beal k, and i served out by asking him why forbes thought it was time to launch this new space right now. here's what he had to say. >> because the time is. now you don't do things until there right, and i think forbes saw the time was right to launch this. -- we were talking about the promise to black communities after post george -- and tried to align, hey, what can we do to at least cover some news from the business side. and look at the black lens, the black perspective on the business side. it just made sense, and so we launched it. for me i was in tulsa in january of 2023, and had a chance -- it was the first time owes of her down that way. and i had a chance to get really into black wall street experience. and from that, it just kind of festered and it went on and on in this momentum was there. >> so, you talk about the

report. forbes cited findings from dig day that showed the fight -- many companies are still mostly white people, also said in a pew sorry , are still white. so, would you consider forbes be a die initiative? >> no. i wouldn't consider that. >> it is not a die in a ship. how would you describe it? >> i would describe it as a platform -- when we talk about business, not enough businesses cover the black perspective. with that, we can cover g.i. initiatives but listen, this is still forbes at the end of the day and what forbes is as a magazine. a news magazine. so be covering news items and looking at the g.i. initiatives. not just companies like banks like citibank, or bank of america, but also the nfl and the nba. i come from a sports background so you want to hold them accountable. you want to hold people accountable looking at the dna ships that they promised to the black community and people of color, at the same time doing other things. profiles on black executives that people might not know

about. companies from black people that people not know about. exposure, because this exposure you know very well. it can help them maybe sell their company, it maybe become millionaires and billionaires. so you want to give them that platform and forbes being one of the leading businesses in all of the world, i think it is the for perfect place to do it. >> i am glad you cleared that up that this is not a dei and issued if if you will, but it is important to understand that this is from as you said, a black lens. a black perspective. this -- you were launching this amid a political climate that is really vilifying initiatives such as these. calling them divisive. is that something that you thought about on the team discussed prior to this launch? >> no. i think we did a great job, led by chief officer -- in identifying what we have is a key advisory council, right? and within that advisory county -- we have political figures in there. one of them was the -- we had people on her team that

were going to allow us watch -- because they're going to lead. us one of the things that you talk about culture, right? forbes bok is that culture. we're trying to intersect sports, music, hollywood, all of it. because again, it's forbes. this is not doing anything outside of what forbes already does, right? events, holding panels and doing all of that. just doing it from a black lens. and so these political issues, will touch on. if there are other designer ships, will touch on them. but we also want to be a hard-core, we're also having to look at the positive stories. the profiles and again those people out there that may not have -- want to be able to find them that voice. that forbes may not have targeted in the past, now they have a platform. while also honoring the community that was already there before forbes be okay. >> dick up thanks to joe barr young, to learn more about forbes to be okay go to forbes

.com slash forbes be okay. and that's it for me folks. thank you for watching symone. from new orleans on this saturday, i'm simone sanders townsend. paul's takes nation with -- starts right after a very short break. after a very shor break. break. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪

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