exceed that figure. sam brock, nbc news. >> everybody be safe out there and enjoy your fourth. i'll lindsey reiser. i'll see you tomorrow. "the reid out" with joy reid starts right now. ♪♪ today on a special two-hour edition of "the reid out." >> there is also growing hostility to religion or at least the traditional religious beliefs that are contrary to the new moral code that is ascendent in some sectors. the challenge for those who want to protect religious liberty in the united states, europe and other similar places is the to cob vibs people who are not religion that religious liberty is worth special protection. >> justice samuel alito, utilizing his first amendment

rights la of the year to share his personal views about religion. but the problem is alito and the other right-wing justices are imposing their personal, moral and political beliefs on all of us. and new reports show how they're using made up plaintiffs in recent supreme court cases to do it. also tonight, new details on donald trump's efforts to over turn his election loss in arizona. amid new reporting that jack smith is giving close scrutiny to trump's clown car team of lawyers. plus america post dobbs. north carolina's 12 week abortion ban take effect as republicans in ohio make it much harder to protect abortion rights even though a majority of the ohioans support those protections. and we begin on the eve of the fourth of july. during a time in america where a lot of people are seeing their freedoms being taken away. and that is in large part due to

the supreme court of the united states. mainly the court's six conservative judges whose decisions last week peeling back some rights and protections americans have enjoyed for decades were tainted by corruption and no, i'm not talking about clarence thomas and samuel alito's fancy billionaire funded vacations. i'm talking about their total disregard for the idea of standing. the legal concept that lawsuits in any court can't just be brought on the grounds that an individual or group is unhappy with whatever the law is. that is not how it works. the plaintiff has to actually suffer some kind of injury. it is pretty basic stuff. but apparently six of the justices on the highest court in our country must have all missed that day in law school. as they've demonstrated in some of the latest rulings. 303 creative versus illness. the case that give businesses across country a green light to deny services to customers if

they are lgbtq. that was all based on a completely made-up scenario. plaintiff lori smith backed by the far right christian group alliance defending freedom sued the state of colorado because she wanted to make wedding websites some day, but didn't want to make them for gay couples because it goes against her religion. but here is the catch, no gay couple ever asked her to make a website for them. according to court filings from the plaintiff, a man named stewart contacted smith in september 2016 about his wedding to mike. he wrote that they would love some design work done for our in viets, place names, maybe even a website. well, the new republic reached out it this stewart to learn that he never once asked smith for any of this, he's not even gay. he's been married to a woman for 15 years. and that call with the new republic was the first time he had even heard about the case. meaning, what is now the law of

the land was all completely based on a hypothetical, whether or not they had standing was competely irrelevant, however, and this is a pattern. the case ending affirmative action for example was brought by another far right group. led by conservative activists ed blum who is white. that group, argued that harvard and the university of north carolina's policies discriminated against asian americans. but here is the weird thing, no asian american students came forward to testify to have experienced said discrimination. in fact, the ome students who testified were in favor of race conscious admissions. and with the student loan forgiveness decision, the court ruled in favor of six red states who were challenging president biden's executive order. not actual students who had loans or debt. but the supreme court doesn't care who the plaintiff might be. if they have any involvement with the case or if they even exist. if the plaintiffs don't have

standing, the six conservative justs will just plaque it up. whatever it takes. to keep handing down these draconian decisions that align with their political ideology and right wing religious views and that keep the right-wing billionaires who take care of them happy and filling up those private jets. joining me now is melissa grant, staff righter for the new republic. and dina bad ala from sirius xm and mia wiley president of the civil rights association. melissa, let's talk about this 303 case. because it seems to me that it is a case based on a completely pead up thing and in a man who didn't know he had any involvement with it and you're reporting on it. >> yeah. i started the reporting on it. this case is based on something even more made-up than this individual inquiry for a website.

the main claim in this case was that their client was not allowed to even advertise her business making wedding websites, which did not exist, so there is a business, it doesn't exist, she's not allowed to advertise that business and they said alleged by because of an anti-discrimination law and then in the midst of that, they bring this inquiry from a same-sex couple. they're trying to say this doesn't matter, we brought this on bigger grounds but two things to know about that. the much bigger grounds are actually even more imaginary than this inquiry that is possible. she has yet to advertise for this service. and they're saying it is a preenforcement challenge and yes, and they exist, and so this is something that was meant to affirm the religious rights of this woman, lori smith and people like her at the expanse of queer and trans feel.

they could spin it however they want, the person whose name is on the inquiry, stewart, he didn't make it. there is no genuine same-sex wedding inquiry behind this and she testified in court that there was. >> just to be clear, melissa, did you talk to stewart? >> yes. yes, i found stewart's contact information in the course of going through court filings. and when i spoke with him, i expected him to say, you know, oh, god, i've heard from a million reporters and here is another one. but he hadn't. no one had called him before. he had no knowledge that his name appeared in this court filing. he had actually heard of the case because by the time i called him, like last tuesday, the case had been argued at the supreme court and was in the news a little bit the end of the last year. so he knew about it in the context of his work as a designer. that is the other kind of ridiculous thing here. he's a designer. why would he be trying to hire another designer to make this

nonexistent wedding website. so he's somebody who supports lgbtq rights and abortion rights and anything that adf is for and this case is about, he stands against that. and it is just a very disorienting experience for someone who is truly a private person to, who reasons still unclear, his information now has become part of this case as if he is a real path of a same-sex couple. >> and he himself is not gay? >> correct. he's married to a woman and has been married to a woman more than a decade. and just a little anxious to get into the particulars because he is truly a private person and lot of people have been calling him. also given the reality of this case and who the adf has aligned with, i think his concerns toer harassment and backlash are pretty significant. and i think that i've spent a

lot of time texting with him and talking with him and my sense is there is no reason on earth that he would have placed this inquiry. and also to be very, very clear, i don't know for sure, it may come out that he did. even if that is the case, what adf is claiming, that this is a genuine inquiry, that is still false. >> okay. so i want to establish all of that, mia, before i ask how this is not a legal deeply unethical, and we'll come back to adf in a moment. but this sounds like a completely specious case. how could it come before the supreme court and how could they go through oral arguments and this entire case and that never come up? >> you know, melissa, thanks for that reporting because when you bring a case, you're supposed to have what is called a case or controversy. that means something has to actually have happened to you. it is part of what we think

about the courts, you have to have something called standing, which is that you are supposed to say that you have had some form of pap panel injury. and i think what melissa has walked us through is exactly the point of there was no case, there was no controversy, there was even any stated injury because she didn't have the business. and this did come up in lower courts. and adf kept changing its filings to try to assert that had had something there including months after it filed its original complaint, kind of updating it to show this alleged request that appears to be false, so i think at the end of the day, you know, you said it right, joy, when you said this isn't supposed to happen. you aren't supposed to be able to get to the supreme court without any factual case that demonstrates that you should be able to be in court in the first place. and on one level, if, in fact,

this was fabricated, it would be a felony because you have to affirm under oath that would make it perjury in it is untrue. and but i think the end of the day it goes back to your other point, is the supreme court wanted to take this case even though it blew in the face of decades of supreme court precedent that said, you know what, you don't have to open a business if you are religious and have strong views, you are allowed to have those views. but that doesn't mean you're allowed to deny anyone else service if you open a service business. and what it did is say, we don't care. >> well, i mean, we know that they're trying to enact their religious and political views. that is very clear. but the one more specific question before i bring dean in for you, mia, should there be and can there be sanctions against the attorneys? could they keep their bar licenses after making up a fake case and arguing it?

and can there be sanctions against the members of the supreme court who knowingly affirmed a case with -- with attestations that were lies? >> well, first, someone could always ask for disciplinary proceeding against the attorneys. of course, like all things, there has to be evidence that they in fact knew there were attestations that were not fact-based. but like all things, we want to see due process. but absolutely on sanctions. there is something called rule 11 in the federal courts where you could be sanctioned and actually fined money for not paying attention to the rules of the court. in terms of the supreme court, you know, as we know, we need ethics reform, as we know the only ray to really go after supreme court justices for wrongdoing is impeachment. and we are pushing very hard for ethics reform as a civil rights community as the leadership conference on civil and human

rights because we can't have a supreme court of the law of the land that the people can't trust. >> well you could get 67 members of the united states senate to think about your voting when you vote for the senate because if you got 67 democrats in there willing to impeach one more thor of them, they could win an impeachment. just like with the president. we talked about adf. that is alliance defending freedom and they're also behind the dobbs case which ended abortion rights and behind the five prist own. here is from the magazine in 2022 about this group alliance defending freedom. adf has received six figure sums from donor trust and donors capital fund, entities designed to hide the identity of the right-wing donors, the charles koch group also gave them $275,000 in 2020. your thoughts on fact that this

appears to be a billionaire-funded effort to take rights away with hidden donors paying for it. >> this is absolutely what it is. and all they're doing is giving their case to the supreme court knowing that if he said earlier about the -- these guys are talking about standing and case and controversy. of course they did. they know better. they don't care about the law in the supreme court any more. they care about political goals so the adf, they let the case get up and allow the supreme court justices to give political decision. the supreme court has moved down the street to the republican national committee and save us some money and walk down there. because the quinnipiac poll two weeks ago, 70% of americans look at this supreme court and say they're mostly motivated by politics. only 25% say law. so you don't need a law degrees any more. look at what the gop wants and what the donors want. look at what they're raising money on. and they're going to deliver it.

so you don't need to understand the law of intricacies, from a legal point of view where the originalism. it doesn't matter. it is purely politics at its worse. and impeaching supreme court justices, that is a tough one. in 2024, democrats must make reform in the supreme court, ethics rules and lifetime appointments ending and it will motivate people to come out and we need to make the court a court again. >> yeah, they could literally just, you know, get rid of the filibuster and expand the court and pass ethics rules. you don't need a law degree to be a great comedian or a commentator, but you happen to have one. so i'm going through a few more of these. you are a lawyer. this is the affirmative action case, no testimony from any asian american cases. the two cases did not feature testimony from any asian american plaintiff. students did testify in fave of

affirmative action. the group with fair admission the group that brought that case. freedom trust and the scathe foundation and bradley foundation were behind the billboards scaring people away from voting three years ago and $3 million from the dark money atm of the right and the koch and devos families among the major contributors. the loan servicer in the student loan case didn't want to be involved in it. one employee of the organization called mohia said are we the bad guys. they weren't involved in it. again, nobody was a plaintiff. and in adjudicating this is what justice kagen said. they have no business deciding and it blows through constitutional guardrails intended to keep courts acting like courts instead of like legislators. you're thoughts, dean, on the fact that this supreme court majority seems to be acting not

just in their political interest but in the interest of dark money from billionaires. who also fly them around the country. >> right. which this court made legal in citizens united, in a different composition and the same, but they ushers in dark money and the result is more and more americans, the record low confidence in the supreme court, which is not good for any of us. if we lose trust in our institutions, that -- what do they mean any more. and people start openingly ending affirmative action for colleges, a great washington post study shows that in states that they did that, it was underrepresentation of black and hispanic students and over representation of white students so it is anti-integration at its essence. >> an it is also goal. let's be clear. it is their goal. it is what they want.

that is their goal. thank you, excellent reporting. dean and mia, thank you both, me friends. and up next on "the reid out," aborg rights advocates are going all out to make sure abortion rights are on the ballot in november and the opponents are doing everything they could to keep that from happening. "the reid out" continues after this. eid out" continues after this lila: before i was diagnosed, there was nothing really to worry about. and then when i was diagnosed, there was just such a big weight put on my shoulders.

every night, i felt like maybe i won't wake up tomorrow. but there's no way that this is going to win. i'm winning. announcer: st jude children's research hospital works day after day to find cures and save the lives of children with cancer and other life-threatening diseases. beth stewart: there are treatments that were invented within the walls of this hospital that have continued to improve the cure rates for pediatric cancer, and st. jude's not going to stop until every single kid gets that chance to walk out of the doors of this hospital cancer free. lila: if it weren't for st. jude, i wouldn't be sitting here today. peter: this place has really shown us the strength of what can happen when so many people work together as one. people want to be a part of the cure. announcer: thanks to generous donors like you, families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food so they can focus on helping their child live.

for just $19 a month, you'll help us continue the life-saving research and treatment these kids need. join with your debit or credit card right now and we'll send you this st. jude t-shirt that you can proudly wear to show your support. christen: i think it's the most worthwhile place to put your money when it comes to childhood cancer. lachaka: because it takes a heart for somebody to say that i'm willing to give to st. jude so that they can help save more lives. that's huge. damon: our giving to st. jude is right up there with our mortgage. that's the priority that we put on giving to st. jude. announcer: please call or go online right now. become a partner in hope today. more shopping? you should watch your spending honey. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that.

let me put a reminder on my phone. save $700 dollars. pick up dad from airport? ohhhhhh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ hi, i'm jason and i've lost 202 pounds on golo. so the first time i ever seen a golo advertisement, i said, "yeah, whatever. there's no way this works like this." and threw it to the side. a couple weeks later, i seen it again after getting not so pleasant news from my physician. i was 424 pounds, and my doctor was recommending weight loss surgery. to avoid the surgery, i had to make a change. so i decided to go with golo and it's changed my life. when i first started golo and taking release, my cravings, they went away. and i was so surprised. you feel that your body is working and functioning the way it should be and you feel energized. golo has improved my life in so many ways. i'm able to stand and actually make dinner.

i'm able to clean my house. i'm able to do just simple tasks that a lot of people call simple, but when you're extremely heavy they're not so simple. golo is real and when you take release and follow the plan, it works. one year after roe v. wade reversal, the anti-abortion front is intensifying its war on women's bodies. in north carolina, a new law has

just gone into effect that restricts most abortions after 12 weeks bringing limit down from 20 weeks. anti-choice conservatives know abortion bans are unpopular among americans. remember, they're extremist stance cost them dearly in the midterms so they're relying on a tactic like voting rights. so they can't win, so they cheat. that is underway in several red states such as ohio where republican lawmakers set up an august special election to decide whether to make it harder to amend the state constitution. make no mistake, this scheme is about abortion. they could amend the state constitution with a simple majority of more than 50% of the vote. but this special election will decide whether future amendments will need the approval of 60% of the electorate. the move will make it harder for voters in november who will decide on a possible ballot measure to codify abortion rights in the state constitution. joining me now is kelly

copeland, executive director of pro-choice ohio. and erin haines, editor at large for the 19. thank you both for being here. let's talk about this. who is behind this move to make it a 60% threshold in ohio and do you agree, am i right or wrong, that this is about abortion? >> it is of course about abortion. just as you've said and just as they've admitted. we have a state that is controlled by a gerrymandered legislature and they don't want you to have a voice in your governments an that is why they've put this special election on the august ballot. because they know that ohio wans will amend our state constitution so we have guaranteed reproduction rights going forward and so they they're going to lose and i do too, and that is why they're trying to change the rules and putting on a special election on

in august, when people are on vacation because they want to ifrpg cha the rules. she want to say we've had 100 years of majority rule. one person one vote. but we're not going to do that any more. we're going to ask you to dilute your voice and only be able to pass things by 60%. it is the most clear indication i've ever seen from that this they know they're out of step with ohioans. >> let's go through this. the person who is behind this ohio amendment, according to cbs news, found that the republican effort is one flank at a coordinated nationwide campaignch this is cbs reporting. heavily funded by rich uline to raise the threshold to pass any citizen initiated amendment. he's based in chicago and he's a billionaire. republican mega donor who has supported groups involved in the january 6 effort and subsequent efforts to over turn elections. so erin, once again we come back

to the same kind of billionaires that want to restrict voter rights are also funding efforts to restrict abortion. your thoughts? >> yeah, joy, look, we are in a moment where we are having a conversation about the overall erosion of rights. the ohio case is something that we've been covering at the 19th as well as these abortion bans that are literally changing in realtime. i would direc anybody that is watching your show to watch -- to go to our website at 19 news.org with a dashboard laying out the situation state by state and updating on a daily basis as things change in state legislatures or in the courts. but you have both sides basically working overtime to outmaneuver the other on the other sides of dobbs, if anybody thought this was going to be over after that ruling, a year later, i think that we're very clear that, that is absolutely not the situation.

>> and so it is a florida bill that is underway to try to make it so that they -- that any citizen required initiative would need 66.67%. that failed to pass. it had passed the house but it made no headway in the senate. it would have required that. they're getting so extreme because it is very clear that ending abortion access is very politically unpopular. just in your reporting, is there any group of republicans in any state that has reacted to the unpopularity of this by trying to slow down? because it seems to me like they're -- their speeding it up. they're getting more aggressive about trying to ban abortion, the more women say we don't want it. >> yeah. it certainly doesn't seem to be the case, joy. and what we did not see happening in state legislatures in the wake of dobbs an in this past legislative session this year, you didn't see republican controlled legislatures who were passing laws to restrict abortion access, passing any

laws or any laws to really help the people who we know will be impacted by this, especially in states where we know maternal mortality rates are high. this is a discrepancy that the vice president continues to poin out to help understand what the stakes are heading into next year. but what people -- not only what people's access is to abortion but to reproductive care overall especially in that region of the country. you have north carolina just saturday passing a 12-week ban after a federal judge let that go forward. there are very few places in the south right now where people are able to get access to abortion in a timely manner and clinicians are worried about what impact that will have on safety and access to reproductive care. and akelly, you're also seeing ob/gyns leave the state

and those going through medical school, declining to take ressency because they could be sued for giving people health care. there is a 22-week ban right now. patients, because you have two back-to-back very far right wing anti-abortion governors back-to-back. your last two governors, republican governors. you have to make two trips in order to get an abortion and there has to be parental consent for minors. so ohio is already a tough tate to get an abortion. how is it going to try to get enough people, a critical mass to vote in this off year, off month election to make sure that you don't wind up with a 60% requirement to pass this initiative in november? >> well, you're so right. ohio is on the front lines of abortion rights in america this year and that is why the ohioans

for reproductive predom is a coalition of ohioans who have put together thousands and thousands of volunteers who have checked hundreds of thousands of signatures and we're going to make history on wednesday when we file those signatures to qualify for the ballot to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot in november for ohioans to be able to say, we will never again be under the tyranny of abortion restrictions like we have been this time last year where people were being forced to flee ohio. but that will never happen again. and that is why we really need everyone's help. we need people to visit us at ohioans for reproductive freedom.org to find out how to get involved in this campaign. we're mobilizing thousands of people and it would be great if people could chip in a few dollars because we're up against some billionaires would have no problem attacking democracy so that they could make the

decisions for all ohioans instead of us making them for ourselves. and we're determined, we are absolutely determined both to furn turn out to vote in august to vote no and then in november to vote yes. because there is no circumstance that we'll surrender to this tyranny and that we'll give up our body autonomy and that we won't fight for our friends and neighbors whose lives depend on these two votes this year. >> and i know you've interviewed the vice president and i'll let you go ahead because i want to find out what the administration thinks this is going to do to the overall look of the -- of this year's elections. but please. >> well, joy, i just want to pick up on the last point that was made. what we do know, in the wake of dobbs, you have had when abortion is on the ballot, they have been success. . they are 6 for 6 so for in ohio and it is the next one up. so with this move to try to make it harder, for the initiative to pass, because when the people

have had a chance to make their voices heard, in their respective states, that has been an effective means of pushing back against what the state legislatures, and what state and federal lawmakers in the gop want to happen. which is in contradiction to your earlier point and out of step with how the majority of americans feel and what they want to see in terms of reproductive access. >> indeed. it is an election mover and i think they could see that and there is a lot of other elections on that ballot so i think they're worried for good reason. thank you both very much. and up next, i spoke with pulse night band on wolf about his moving new memoir. we'll bring you that conversation next. we'll bring you that conversation next.

what causes a curve down there? can it be treated? stop typing, and start talking. it could be a medical condition called peyronie's disease, or pd. and it could be treated without surgery. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone. on the top of the pile! oh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ hi, i'm tony hawk, and like many of you, only pay for what you need. i take a statin to reduce cholesterol, but statins can also deplete coq10 levels. that's why my doctor recommended qunol coq10. qunol has the number one cardiologist recommended form of coq10. qunol. the brand i trust.

[music playing] subject 1: cancer is a long journey. it's overwhelming, but you just have to put your mind to it and fight. subject 2: it doesn't feel good because you can't play outside with other children. subject 3: as a parent, it is your job to protect your family. but here is something that i cannot do. i cannot fix this. i don't know if my daughter is going to be able to walk. i don't know if she's going to make it till tomorrow. [music playing] interviewer: you can join the battle to save lives by supporting st. jude children's research hospital. families never receive a bill from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food so they can focus on helping their child live. subject 4: childhood cancer, there's no escaping it. but st. jude is doing the work, continually researching

towards cures, giving more than just my child a chance at life. interviewer: please, call or go online right now and become a st. jude partner in hope for only $19 a month. subject 5: those donations really matter because we're not going to give up. and when you see other people not giving up on your child, it makes all the difference in the world. interviewer: when you call or go online with your credit or debit card right now, we'll send you this st. jude t-shirt. you can wear to show your support to help st. jude save the lives of these children. subject 6: st. jude is hope. even today after losing a child, it's still about the hope of tomorrow, because. childhood cancer has to end. interviewer: please, call or go online right now.

[music playing] okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. everyone: woo hoo! ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals. enter the $10,000 nourishing moments giveaway.

over the course of the past year, the united states of america has become an increasingly less safe place for the lgbtq community. weeks ago the human rights came for the first time declared a national state of emergency for lgbtq americans. a report from the anti-defamation league and glaad. said there have been more than 350 incidents of anti-lgbtq harassment or vandalism or

assault in the u.s. since last year. not to mention a record number of anti-lgbtq bills have been induced in republican controlled state houses across the country. many of which have become law. and ground zero for this anti-lgbtq movement is florida. led by its governor ron desantis who made it his entire goal to ban everything from drag shows to even just talking about sexuality in schools. this is the same state where the deadliest attack on the lgbtq community in modern history took place. when a gunman killed 49 people and injured 53 others at pulse nightclub in orlando. one of the survived of that attack brandon wolf said that inspired him to become an activist for lgbtq rights and to write his new book titled "a place for us" and he joins me now. >> it is great to see you.

>> and it is great to see you in person here and i want to first start talking -- go back a little bit. before we go to the book, to origins of how you became known is the worst way possible. >> yeah. >> the worst thing that could have happened to you happened. and you're reaction to that was to come out and speak for your friends and other people. i wonder in looking back on that now, and thinking about where we are in terms of lgbtq rights, how that feels for you to have that have been your start and have this be your reality? >> you know, when you lose someone you love very much, you go through a range of emotions. and i expected a lot of them, grief and pain, sometimes joy when you remember the best memories. but you also experience fear. you're afraid you're going to forget who they were and so you safe old voicemails so you remember how they sounded when they answered the phone and saved old t-shirts and remember how they smelled and i was deeply afraid that people wouldn't get to know them and they would only matter of how they died an not how they lived.

so when i look back sen years ago to fight for a world that my best friends would be proud of, one where they're remembered because of the beauty they brought to this world, i'm proud to share my story. i know things are tough. things are really challenging. but i'm so proud we're in a place where we could share our story authentically and unapologetically. and if book gets on to the ban block in governor ron desantis's florida, bring it on. >> oh, it will. let me read you an excerpt. this is describing pulse on the night of the shooting and this is you writing. in many ways pulse embodied the sense of community after i moved to orlando. it is the first time i held hands and -- an act of defiance that might have put me in ink daer almost anywhere else. it is the only spaces where i dare to let my guard down to be a little messy and unpolished afraid of who might be watching, hidden from sight, pulse was a place where i could be all of

myself, a safe space. that actually breaks my heard to read that because i wonder if a pulse could exist now in florida? >> well we do have safe spaces. and like safe spaces there -- throughout lgbtq people in this country, they're life lines that we carve out, refugees hidden away from a world that threatens violence and discrimination every time we walk out of the door. but i think those spaces are under siege right now. you have a governor again in ron desantis and his legislative allies that are doing everything they could to weaponize government against those spaces, threatening bars for hosting drag brunches and terrorizing members of community. it does feel like those spaces are under siege, but the truth is no matter ho you hard they try to erase them, no matter how hard they try to combat our existence, our visibility, we're not going anywhere and those spaces aren't going anywhere. we're going to create them. whether it is in someone's living room or around a kitchen

island or a place like pulse nightclub, we will create safe places for each other. >> and your journey has been a kid that felt out of place in the world to the white house, to the vice president's reception for pride. but one of the things that i was found more poignant was you did a tweet about how your grandma reacted to this book. because this book is very honest. >> yeah, it is. >> tell that story about how your grandma reacted when she read your book? >> my grandma is a beautiful, strong woman, as most grandmas are. and when i lost my mom at a young age, she really stepped in. and took care of us. and i built a deep meaningful bond with her. but i never really came out to her. like hoolly. because i was worried that might hurt her or damage our relationship and ultimately that drove a wedge went us. i moved away to orlando and lost

touch. so when she texted me reaching out asking if she could get a copy of thebook, i thought -- well i sent her a book and i signed it and a few days later she sent me a text message back and had so many lovely things to say as i noted many my tweet. but the most powerful words were we loved you then and we love you now. never underestimate the power of a grandma's love. >> well i love that and i think that is the message that hopefully the lgbtq community at large is reving both from your activism, from the ways in which you speak on program that's are lucky to have you. you're a hero of mine. and i cannot wait to finish reading your book. i'll probably cry through the whole thing so i won't have my makeup on. i want to let you close by giving advice to the next -- the next you. between gun violence, and anti-lgbtq hate, we are really at this terrifying inflection point in the country and there are ape lot of young people,

young brandons, they're probably very afraid. what advice would you give them? >> when i was a kid, people that i cared about said world will never be ready for someone like you. you will have to be black enough for one space and wight enough for another space and that was so isolating toer me. i spent so many years of my life looking for a place to belong. the reason i wrote this book so honestly is because i want the next generation of me to know they don't have to go in search of a place to belong, that they have everything they need, their perfectly exactly as they are. they have every tool in their tool box and the ome job is to live fully, proudly and authentically and unapologetically and i hope when they read this journey from start to finish they see themselves in it and they understand they could do anything they put their minds to. >> i know they will, even in florida. >> especially in florida. >> especially in florida. brandon wolf, you are a hero.

thank you very much. >> thank you. great to be here. >> and congratulations on book. >> thank you. >> book is called "a place for us." it is on screen. so everybody could get one. buy a copy and buy one for a friend. all right. up next, i recently smoke with merly evers williams about her on going activism as she marked 60 years since the assassination of her beloved husband, the most courageous naacp leader medgar evers. that is next.

- you like that bone? i got a great price on it. - did you see my tail when that chewy box showed up? - oh, i saw it. - sorry about the vase. - can we just say vase like normal people? - fine. - i always wondered what it would be like to have a tail. - maybe you did one time. and maybe a thousand years from now, i'll be tail-less using that chewy app to get you great prices on treats. - i'm pretty sure it takes more than a thousand years- - vase. - pets aren't just pets. they're more. - vase! - [announcer] save more on what they love with everyday great prices at chewy. (air whooshing) (box thudding)

♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪

fundamental freedoms are under attack in our country today and there is a national agenda at play by these extremist so-called leaders. it will be a national ban on abortion. it is the tradition of our country to fight for freedom, to fight for rights... to fight for the ability of all people to be who they are and make decisions about their own lives and their bodies. and we will fight for the ideals of our country.

at the supreme court's right-wing majority strips away the progress america made during the 20th century, you have to wonder how civil rights icons will think. like medgar evers who was assassinated outside of his home in jackson, mississippi. he was >> a sniper fired a single shot. the bullet hit him in the back, crashed through his body, through a window, into the house. >> as the mississippi field secretary for the naacp, he encouraged black americans, including terrorized sharecroppers, teachers, and college students, to register to vote. he protested segregation in education and launched an

investigation into the emmett till lynching. 60 years after his assassination, i sat down with his widow, merle evers williams. she shared what medgar evers would feel about things today. >> medgar evers was a devoted man who worked so hard and gave his life, actually, for his people, for his country. that he do on not take no for an answer. full speed ahead for those things that were true and necessary. not only for himself and his family, gut all of the families, and most of all his country. >> so much has changed in mississippi. the airport is called medgar evers airport. >> yes. >> what do you think he would think of the united states today?

>> i think medgar would be very disappointed with the politics. i think we all realize that there are changes that come and go. some good and some not so good. i do believe he would encourage more people to register and to vote. that was always a cause he embraced so strongly. i think he would be pleased to see more people of color devote themselves to their communities and what's going on around. i think medgar would be very restless right now. and i would say he should be. as i am and many other people. to be actively participant in change the when there is need to be. preserving what should be preserved.

of getting younger people more involved than they are now, i think would be an issue that he would gravitate to, if not start on his own. >> so i want to ask you a fun question. i happen to know that you and medgar loved motown. that you -- it was one of your bonds, that you loved to dance. i have to ask you, what was your song, your and medgars' song? >> oh, my goodness, i don't think i can give you one because we loved so many. we loved to dance. and whether it was fast, slow, medium, what have you. i really can't think of one in particular, because there were so many. but if you look back at records that came out in the '60s, late '50s and '60s, you could say,

there they are, there. so i can't come up with any one special one now. it's just that both of us were music lovers. and i still am to this day. >> i've asked what the most important thing is people should know about medgar evers. what's the most important thing people should know about merle evers williams? >> that i'm human. i'm prone to error. i try not to make errors. i'm very strong about what i believe in. and i will go to the nth degree to see that that happens or takes place. medgar was very much the same. as you know, he gave his life for freedom of his people and others as well. things have changed in the last,

what, ten years, the last five years. there's so many differences of opinion. i find myself asking the question, do we ever come together on any particular issue? the answer seems almost like, no. but perhaps that's good for our society, because we change, exchange ideas, rather than fight ideas. and that's very, very healthy, i believe. that's the joy i have of learning, still learning, and knowing that i'm alive. i can think. yeah, and i can speak. i can say what i have to say about it. and i don't have to feel ashamed about it. i don't have to hide about it. i can just be me and try to be

helpful, not only to myself but to others as well. >> is she not fabulous at 90? our special two-hour edition of "the reidout" continues in a moment with new reporting about trump's major effort to overturn his 2020 election defeat in arizona. as someone living with type 2 diabetes, i want to keep it real and talk about some risks. with type 2 diabetes you have up to 4 times greater risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. even at your a1c goal, you're still at risk ...which if ignored could bring you here... ...may put you in one of those... ...or even worse. too much? that's the point. get real about your risks and do something about it. talk to your health care provider about ways to lower your risk of stroke, heart attack, or death. learn more at getrealaboutdiabetes.com

♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i've never been healthier. only pay for what you need. shingles doesn't care. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today.

♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪

♪♪

welcome back to the second hour of a special edition of "the reidout." as donald trump was back on the campaign trail this weekend for his 2024 presidential bid, we're learning more about his efforts to overturn the results of the last presidential election. "the washington post" is reporting on trump's pressure campaign toward then arizona governor doug ducey. you may remember this infamous moment in november 2020 when governor ducey was in the midst of certifying president biden's win. when he received a call with the ring tone "hail to the chief" that he quickly sent to voicemail. we later learned it was trump himself on the other end of that call that ducey declined to answer. they later connected but ducey never said what the call was about. according to the "post," it was trump pushing to get the governor to overturn the election results. the "post" reports four people familiar with the call said trump spoke specifically about his shortfall of more than 10,000 votes in arizona and

espoused a range of false claims that he said would show he overwhelmingly won the election in the state and he encouraged ducey to study them, adding, two of those people say, trump repeatedly asked vice president mike pence to call ducey and prod him to find evidence to substantiate trump's claims of fraud. in an interview over the weekend, pence confirmed that he did check in with ducey but denied ever exerting any pressure. of course, it wouldn't be the only time trump would pressure a state official to overturn a state's election results. >> so, look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. because we won the state. >> i should note georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger med with investigators from jack smith's speaker of the house last week

in their investigation into trump's role in trying to reverse his 2020 defeat. the "post" also notes it's unclear if ducey has been contacted by smith's office over his call. and new reporting from "the wall street journal" indicates that the special counsel's investigation has taken a growing interest in the role trump's lawyers and other figures played in the efforts to overturn trump's loss, including creating slates of fake electors. that includes issuing subpoenas and asking questions centered on central key figures in those efforts like trump's so-called elite strike force of the kraken lady, sidney powell, rudy giuliani, jenna ellis, among others. the "journal" provided more details on the recent interview between federal prosecutors and giuliani, citing among other things of interest was a december 2020 meeting in the oval office during which powell pitched a plan to have the u.s. military seize control of the voting machines. also of interest was the role of lawyer john eastman, the brains,

if one wants to call it that, behind the fake electors memo. joining me is msnbc justice and legal analyst anthony kelly. he's a former doj spokesperson under attorney general merrick garland. charles colon, former prosecutor and nbc analyst. anthony, the sense that one gets in looking at all the different places that jack smith is looking and sort of burrowing is that there is a potential that there could be another active case against donald trump. based on a lot of things. we had been thinking it was more about perhaps a second fake documents -- showing, sorry, classifieds document case, maybe in new jersey, or specifically on the january 6th insurrection. this feels more about the pressure campaign. how do you see it? >> right. i think that's exactly right, joy. there is a lot we do not know about this investigation, and all of the lawyers you

mentioned -- giuliani and others -- they have a right to be concerned. but they shouldn't be surprised here. right? i think all of us know that there was a series of court rulings, about 60 different federal courts in the winter of 2020, that found that all of these election charges didn't have any real legal merit. and bill barr himself, then he was sitting in the seat as united states attorney general. he said very publicly to the associated press and to others that there wasn't enough fraud in the 2020 election to change the outcome of that election. so it shouldn't be really a surprise to any one of these lawyers. my hope that is what we are seeing from jack smith and his prosecutors, despite some of the rhetoric, right? they have in many cases -- trump

has called him to rage, he attacks this man's wife, jack smith's wife. what we are seeing is jack smith determined to pursue justice without fear or favor. and i think everyone who loves freedom and truth and law should be happy about that. and the last thing i'll say, joy, to your question, this justice department is following the facts wherever they lead. and that's what we should all hope for in any criminal investigation. >> you know, and there's also the case -- "making attorneys get attorneys" is what maga stands for. i wonder how fearful, charles, some of these attorneys ought to be. the jenna ellis, the strike force folks. because it does seem like they are -- like the justice department is zeroing back in on the fake electors scheme that a lot of trump's lawyers had something to do with.

>> well, joy, i'm not convinced that maga is not about to stand for "my attorneys got arrested" in a little while. it's really important that we identify the irony here. let's focus for a quick second on the fact that right now, donald trump is actively campaigning and peddling a narrative around the doj supposedly interfering with an election. when, in fact, he is also under investigation in multiple jurisdictions for having actually interfered in the last election. and so i just think the irony of that is important to point out to viewers and to the public. to understand that, as he peddles this narrative, if anyone knows what election interference is, it's actually him. because he's actually someone who in multiple states is under investigation for that. that being said, i do think that jack smith is doing what a prosecutor does, and that's as anthony pointed out, follow the facts wherever they take you. it's important to understand that this may be distinctly different from the georgia race

inasmuch as with that case, with raffensperger, we have the phone call, we have the recording, we know what was said, we know it was clear. whereas with this case, it's kind of left up to the interpretation of the different accounts and other people on the call. as to the degree of pressure which was being placed on donald trump. legally what that's going to mean is everything comes back to the timeline. what did you know at the time that you made these calls? and then, what was said on the actual calls? so i think that is going to be the linchpin that determines whether a prosecution moves forward wrts to arizona, as compared to georgia, where you have the actual recording and you know what was said. >> good point. to stay with you just a second, charles, the other thing is, right, we don't know what trump might have to fear from what mike pence or doug ducey might say to jack smith. but there are other people. former trump campaign official, mike roman, who was involved in efforts to put forward these

slates of electors, he potentially was involved. this was a white house official. then there is also a sort of female member of trump's orbit. who was actually apparently shown documents, maybe potentially in new jersey, who folks are talking about who is still involved in trump world. shafs a campaign aide, susie wiles, one of his most trusted advisers. she was leading his re-election effort and works for his pac. allegedly was shown a classified map in august or september of 2021. when people like that are getting dragged before jack smith's grand jury, how does that work when they're still in his orbit? >> it's a very big deal when you're talking about the fact that they're still connected to donald trump. because the question really becomes, as a prosecutor what is it going to take for you to fold? how much pressure is it going to take for you so begin to

understand if you do not cooperate, if you do not let us know what it is that you know, you could potentially be going down with a sinking ship. so the fact that they're still connected to donald trump is not only an education of his own bravado, but perhaps their level of allegiance, which for most people does not jive with common sense, inasmuch as you see this is a person being indicted at this point on the federal level by jack smith, on the local level by alvin bragg, and potentially forthcoming charges on the state level. so is this something that you want to continue to be associated with? or are you going to try to cut a deal with the doj, let them know what you know, basically get off this sinking ship? >> stephanie griffin, another former white house aide on the press side. this is what she says, not that she heard, but what she saw. take a look. >> look, you know donald trump. is it plausible trump was

showing classified documents to people in private meetings? >> the short answer is yes. i watched him show documents to people at mar-a-lago at the dining room patio. he has no respect for classified information, never did. >> i mean -- what's the over/under? literally everyone who worked around trump, everyone who's been in line with his pac, eventually being before this grand jury, it seems there are endless people that jack smith could talk to. >> there are endless people. and i just -- i shouldn't be surprised anymore when i hear stuff like that, but it still boggles the mind that this former president, this president, donald trump, could be so cavalier with our nation's -- some of our nation's top secrets. we're talking about things that at its core could put the men and women in our military at

risk. we're talking about people who could put our assets at risk. and the fact that he is going around in such a cavalier manner, showing things off on a patio, it just really speaks to the fact that he quite honestly shouldn't have had access to this information to start with. >> let me read to you, charles, a little bit from the indictment, the 37-count indictment. august or september of 2021, when he was no longer president, trump met in his office with a representative of his pac, during the meeting, trump commented an ongoing military operation in country "b" was not going well. trump showed the pac representative a classified map of country "b" and told the pac representative he should not be showing the map to the pac representative and not to get too close. that could be susie wiles, we don't know who that is, they don't name the person. are you surprised that, given all of that information, that donald trump was not charged with disseminating? or do you think that's something that could still happen?

>> i don't think that anything's off the table, joy. i think it's important to understand that jack smith is continuing to move very methodically in terms of how he conducts this investigation and gathers additional information. the fact that that nugget appeared in the current indictment does not in any way preclude him from moving forward with a prosecution around bedminster if it's found that there's enough evidence there to meet the probable cause threshold for indictment. as a former prosecutor, i can tell you, you want to make sure that you feel like you have enough to move forward beyond a reasonable doubt, the standard you would need at trial. if we see that level of information emerge with jack smith through the course of his investigation, that absolutely is something that we could see in the future. despite the fact that we haven't seen it now. there are a lot of things that jack smith is working on. just because we haven't heard anything about january 6th doesn't necessarily mean that's off the table. we have had an unprecedented amount of access and insight into the investigations that

this prosecutor has taking place because of the fact that investigative journalists have been doing a crack shot job getting these things out to the public. as investigations are occurring, you don't know what's going on, you don't know the direction a prosecutor is heading. it's important to understand jack smith could take this in a variety of different directions. i wouldn't say anything, bedminster included, is off the table. >> anthony, you know him, we don't, i don't. is he a guy that would potentially, particularly if that florida judge takes things sideways and seems to be trying to stuff the investigation into a closet, to open -- to do multiple additional indictments? potentially bedminster, potentially in d.c., all at the same time? >> sure, he absolutely could. i think there would have to be a type of triggering event. i defer to charles, who's the prosecutor here. a triggering event that would

make him try to go around the judge in that case or perhaps appeal to the 11th circuit or go to the district of new jersey. absolutely, i think the overarching goal is to pursue justice without fear or favor. to make sure that everyone and anyone who, with regard to the january 6th investigation, is criminally responsible. and with regard to the documents investigation, that people are held accountable for their crimes. >> and what would be that kind of a triggering event, charles, potentially? >> i think it would have to basically show that there was a substantial amount of documents that were being held in bedminster or that a significant amount of action pointing toward the illegality occurred at bedminster. we have evidence of one incident that we have seen dictated in the indictment, but if there are more, if that shows that that was also sort of a hub, if you

will, for storing classified documents after he was responsible for returning them to the national archives or refused, we could potentially see the same sort of action with respect to an indictment in place here in the northeast, as we have in florida. >> anthony kelly and charles coleman, coined a new -- what is it, my attorneys got arrested? at some point it could be "man, ain't getting a pardon." except that's a "p" at the end. i'm going to do this the rest of the day, charles coleman jr., anthony, thank you. next on "the reidout," the flawed false equivalence on republican attacks on the children of democratic presidents. news flash. unlike jared and ivanka, hunter biden and chelsea clinton were not members of their fathers' administrations.

lila: before i was diagnosed, there was nothing really to worry about. and then when i was diagnosed, there

was just such a big weight put on my shoulders. every night, i felt like maybe i won't wake up tomorrow. but there's no way that this is going to win. i'm winning. announcer: st jude children's research hospital works day after day to find cures and save the lives of children with cancer and other life-threatening diseases. beth stewart: there are treatments that were invented within the walls of this hospital that have continued to improve the cure rates for pediatric cancer, and st. jude's not going to stop until every single kid gets that chance to walk out of the doors of this hospital cancer free. lila: if it weren't for st. jude, i wouldn't be sitting here today. peter: this place has really shown us the strength of what can happen when so many people work together as one. people want to be a part of the cure. announcer: thanks to generous donors like you, families never receive a bill

from st. jude for treatment, travel, housing, or food so they can focus on helping their child live. for just $19 a month, you'll help us continue the life-saving research and treatment these kids need. join with your debit or credit card right now and we'll send you this st. jude t-shirt that you can proudly wear to show your support. christen: i think it's the most worthwhile place to put your money when it comes to childhood cancer. lachaka: because it takes a heart for somebody to say that i'm willing to give to st. jude so that they can help save more lives. that's huge. damon: our giving to st. jude is right up there with our mortgage. that's the priority that we put on giving to st. jude. announcer: please call or go online right now. become a partner in hope today.

december 18, 1972, a young mother took her three children to pick up a christmas tree. she and her 13-month-old daughter would never make it back home. her name was nelly o. biden, joe biden's first wife. their sons, beau and hunter, survived the den accident in which a tractor-trailer sideswiped their car. hunter biden, who was 3, suffered a fractured skull. beau, a year older, suffered multiple broken bones.

the boys got to grow up but beau biden died of brain cancer in 2015 at age 46. hunter has been transparent about his struggles, including his battle with addiction. and like millions of americans, he continues to struggle, including with the trauma of losing his mother, sister, and brother. two weeks ago, hunter biden agreed to plead guilty to a pair of tax-related misdemeanors tied to a probe and to his taxes and foreign business dealings, bringing a close to a five-year criminal investigation started during the trump administration with a trump-appointed prosecutor. president biden and first lady jill biden have repeatedly said that they love and support their son, while acknowledging that he has made mistakes. republicans are hardly satisfied with any of that and have done everything in their power to use hunter biden's past and his struggle with addiction as an anchor to try to drag down his father. angry that their guy, trump, was indicted for obscenely brazen

criminality, republicans have vowed an eye for an eye. they currently have multiple investigations into pretty much every aspect of hunter biden's businesses and finances. hunter biden has acknowledged his last name has afforded him opportunities most americans don't have. but he has denied any wrongdoing. >> i'm a human. you know what? did i make a mistake? well, maybe in the grand scheme of things, yeah. but did i make a mistake based upon some unethical lapse? absolutely not. they feel like they have the license to go out and say whatever they want. it feels to me like living in some kind of alless in wonderland. >> that doesn't satisfy republicans either. maybe in part because they actually seem to enjoy attacking the family members of democratic presidents. back in the early '90s when president bill clinton, while he was notching up bipartisan victories and balancing the budget, right-wingers were busy attacking his teenage daughter.

>> let's take a look, she who is the cute kid in the white house. no, no, no! that's not the kid. that's the kid. >> chelsea clinton recently noted how creepy it was that she was the obsession of so many adults. >> rush limbaugh and others, but notably rush limbaugh -- i think this is now somewhat well known -- like was quite vicious to me. said terrible things about my appearance and called me the white house dog repeatedly. >> how old were you at this point? >> i was 12, 13. and i remember thinking, like, this is just so, at best odd, at worst just wrong. why is this old man obsessed with me? this is so and creepy. >> and do you have your -- >> sasha and malia obama were even younger but this didn't spare them from insults being hurled their way by republicans

over their facial expressions or the clothes they wore. as for trump's adult children, ivanka trump and jared kushner, two fully grown babies with zero political experience, they were handed powerful positions in the trump white house with broad portfolios with not a peep from the republicans and their friends in right-wing media. during the white house years, they reported between $172 million and $640 million in outside income. they should have never been allowed to work at the white house, frankly. jared couldn't even get a security clearance until trump intervened. the department of justice reversed decades of precedent to grant trump's wish that his children be allowed to work in the white house and profit from it. if the republicans are so outraged about financial wrongdoing, you'd think they might want to investigate how jared skated out of the white house to a $2 billion investment from the saudi public investment

fund. which is run by mohammad bin salman, who had a u.s.-based journalist murdered with a bone saw, but you know, vive la difference. an important distinction. hunter biden has no role in the biden administration. he's a private citizen. republicans are investigating this private citizen and using information peddled by disgraced former new york city mayor, rudy giuliani, back in 2019, to literally persecute him. simply for being a biden. an obsession that got donald trump impeached for the first time. after the break, we'll untangle what republicans are claiming and how specious their accusations really are. scienti. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪

if you ever flip over to fox, there's a good chance you'll hear about hunter biden. because they seem to think he is the biggest existential crisis facing america. >> today, hunter biden's legal team tries to discredit the internal revenue service whistle-blowers. as house republicans want depositions from those involved in hunter's sweetheart plea deal. >> i think the president only really has two options. either he hands hunter over to the american public and to the department of justice, or he simply resigns and everybody forgets about it. ♪ the biden family ♪

>> okay. to boil it all down, republicans at fox accuse president biden of running a criminal enterprise, because basically that's what trump and his kids were doing while he was in the white house -- sorry, did i say that in my outside voice? specifically, republicans and their cable network accuse joe and hunter biden of accepting millions of dollars in cash to oust a former ukrainian prosecutor because he wanted to investigate hunter's role at an oil company called burisma. let's do a quick fact check. so when joe biden was vice president of the united states, during the obama administration, part of his portfolio was foreign policy. in that vein, he on behalf of the u.s. pushed for the removal of ukraine's top prosecutor. his name was victor shokin. not because he was investigating burisma, but because he was corrupt and wasn't pursuing corruption in the ukrainian government at the time. corruption that allowed russia

to manipulate and control ukraine. the push for ukraine to tackle corruption and therefore to stave off russian interference was a project of the entire west, europe and the u.s. not just joe biden. also, the evidence republicans claim to have of joe biden accepting a bribe does not appear to exist. if they have such evidence, they certainly haven't produced it. by the way, these claims have been investigated and investigated and dismissed. even by senate republicans. and because they cannot provide any evidence that joe and hunter biden were doing trump-style corruption, republicans are now targeting the plea deal hunter biden just struck on matters unrelated to any of this. in essence, they were accusing the trump-appointed prosecutor of cutting a sweetheart deal because the current attorney general, merrick garland, somehow limited his investigation into hunter, a claim the trump-appointed prosecutor denied. joining me is david corn,

"mother jones." susan persio, msnbc political analyst. david, you're a journalist. you've had opportunity to take a look at these apparently important claims for which joe biden should simply hand hunter over. just hand him over or resign. david weiss is the federal prosecutor in delaware. he is the trump-appointed prosecutor. his task was to spearhead this investigation. it started in 2018. the investigation initially focused on potential violations of tax and money laundering laws in hunter biden's foreign business dealings in china particularly. this guy had an unlimited budget. he had the mandate of the trump administration. and he had unlimited time. because obviously merrick garland ain't getting rid of nobody trump put in. if he had evidence that joe and hunter biden were taking bribes and doing crime, where is it? >> well, that's just it. we don't have any evidence. we've had many members of the

house republican caucus come out and make accusations, and then when you say, where's the evidence? they go, "we haven't gotten it yet." and they think that's an appropriate response and a legitimate response. it's really, you know, conclusions first, then investigate. a lot of this even tracks back to rudy giuliani working with a person who was identified as a russian agent, who identified this person as a russian agent? this ukrainian fellow who's giving all this information about hunter biden being corrupt? it was donald trump's own u.s. treasury department. they certified this fellow who was working with giuliani was a russian agent and sanctioned him for election united states. so this has deep roots in what seems to be a giuliani/russian disinformation camp like the john durham investigation.

remember how that was going to end up sending barack obama and hillary clinton to gitmo? they keep trying to weaponize these investigations to do political damage to their political foes. and they keep coming up relatively empty. and i would say hunter biden's business connections were worth a good look by a congressional committee, as would be jared kushner's own connections, trading on a family name. that's worth an investigation. but they can't even get that piece of this right. they go right to these deep state conspiracy theories for which they have no proof. >> right. it's the scattershot desperation that also tries to match information that we know is true about trump by saying, well, we can finding some worse about the bidens. it's why trump got impeached is that he was trying to prove the real collusion was ukraine colluing with the bidens because he was colluding with

russia. it's like whenever they get caught doing something on the republican side, they have to match it. talk about the way this has gone down this very weird road at which republicans are angry that they can't get hunter's nudes, that his nudes don't get published on twitter. it gets to a place where it's bananas. it's not even coherent anymore. the only piece that's coherent that is they're mad that ukraine was no longer under the thumb of russia, which is where apparently they want ukraine to always be. >> reporter: right, and let's not forget, also house republicans are saying that donald trump is incompetent. because he's not competent enough to get -- to assign a special prosecutor to investigate biden. oh, wait, he did. and guess what? as you said, they found nothing. and it's worth noting that he also said he felt no pressure by the department of justice to end his investigation or have any particular finding. so it's, you know -- the best i come, to joy, is that we went

from a trump administration of having alternative facts to a republican majority living in an alternative reality vr where they just get to flip the script and they think it's going to fly. ironically, those people, what they're really doing is putting the majority, the republican majority, at stake. they're not -- 19 republicans, freshmen republicans that came in, in biden-won districts, they're going to lose because no one can defend that kind of nonsense. the more they spew it, there's no logic for it. like i said, the best i can think of is the alternate universe. >> i mean, the thing is also, no one cares. other than people who watch fox, 2 million, 3 million a night, nobody knows who hunter biden is. then when you know the facts of him, it's actually sad. you know, a lot of americans are struggling with drug addiction. and so do they think that makes

him less relatable to families who might have someone dealing with addiction? he didn't pay his taxes. donald trump never paid taxes. i don't think he ever paid taxes. the things about him that you know make you kind of feel bad for him. rather than think he's a criminal. it's like they're not -- the only other thing people might know about him is that the guy who got fired from fox news, what was the guy, the 8:00 show? whatever his name was -- tucker. that he begged that same guy, he begged hunter biden to help him get his son into georgetown. that's the only other thing people know about this guy. >> yeah, and you know, it's really interesting that they're trying to villainize him. because you're right, he will come off as very sympathetic once -- if they continue to do so in a general election. and it's also worth noticing, not once did i see media go after donald trump's minor son, son who's a minor, under the age of 18.

his son, i don't even like mentioning his name, because it's not the right thing to do. his son has basically sailed through the last six years. i know there's been nonsense talk out there, but not mainstream. >> democrats wouldn't dare. he's a child. >> i mean, the thing here is that nobody -- >> go on. >> i'm sorry. the thing here is that they are making allegations that hunter biden was in cahoots with joe biden for tens of millions of dollars. nancy mace, house republican, came out of a meeting, said it's a crime family! where's the everyday? oh, we don't have the evidence. so they are -- you use the word desperation. they are desperately trying to link joe biden and damage his family reputation by bringing in hunter. listen, i think it's fair to investigate business dealings of

people close to the president. >> sure. >> but do it reasonably and responsibly. here they are thinking that they have a smoking gun, when they don't even have a water pistol. and i think, you know, it will mobilize and play to the far right, but it's not addressing the issues of student debt, inflation, or anything else out there that they claim the democrats aren't addressing. so it is very narrow casting. it's kind of the campaign of hatred that you see on fox. is of now, i do think they look foolish, the way durham looked foolish, the way rudy giuliani looked foolish, all these great investigators. they come up with disinformation and propaganda. at the end of the day, it doesn't move the needle politically. and that's kind of we they are now with hunter biden. >> chris christie, last word on this. your witness. >> the trump family have been involved in grifting for quite

some time. jared kushner, six months after he leaves the white house, gets $2 billion from the saudi sovereign wealth fund. when donald trump had put him in a position to be in the middle east. what was jared kushner doing in the middle east? we had rex tillerson and mike pompeo as secretaries of state, we didn't need jared kushner. he was put there to make those relationships, then he cashed in on those relationships when he left the office. what donald trump's doing now is just a continuation of what he's permitted his family to do over the entire course of his time as president. >> susan, you know, political malpractice to me, and you are a political strategist, could seem to be to serve up the opponents of your candidate to do what chris christie just did. because the more you talk about the so-called biden corruption, biden corrupt crime family, it just invites people who can do it, like chris disty, to do what he just did. your thoughts? >> yeah, chris christie's prosecuting donald trump. and that's what it comes down to. and i think he's gaining a lot of popularity for it.

so all this talk that donald trump wants to try and do about the bidens, good look with that because i think the case against donald trump, who wants to be president, he has to explain -- he's going to have to explain himself, which he can never do. i think it's pretty much, leave it to chris christie. >> and the worst nightmare donald trump could ever have is chris christie, a bully versus a bully. watch them fight. and let them fight. david koren and susan del persio, thank you both very much. coming up, i spoke with youssef salaam of the exonerated five about the karmic justice of his apparent vic tree in a new york city council race in harlem. july clearance. shop all the top grills and more up to 40% off. with smokin' fast shipping. and get wayfair deals so epic, it'll feel like you're getting away with something.

yes! so take summer into your own hands - and get extra outdoorsy with wayfair's fourth of july clearance. june 28 through july 5. ♪ wayfair you've got just what i need ♪

detect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects.

if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this: i stay undetectable with fewer medicines. ask your doctor about switching to dovato. i brought in ensure max protein with 30g of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that. -everyone: woo hoo! ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. enter the nourishing moments giveaway for a chance to win $10,000. what causes a curve down there? who can treat this?

stop typing, and start talking. it could be a medical condition called peyronie's disease, or pd. you're not alone, there is hope. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose and treat pd. visit makeapdplan.com today. having to be kidnapped from my home, as a 15-year-old child -- to be lodged in the belly of the beast -- i was gifted to turn that experience into the womb of america. i was gifted because i was able to see it for what it really was. a system that was trying to make me believe that i was my ancestors' wildest nightmare. but i am my ancestors' wildest

dreams. >> that was exonerated five member yusef salaam, declaring victory in the primary for harlem's city council seat after he appeared to win by a landslide. it is a stunning moment for salaam, who three decades ago was one of the five black teens who donald trump said should be put to death after they were falsely accused of raping a white woman in central park. now salaam will get to be an advocate for his community. while trump is facing two indictments with more than 30 counts each in federal court and in state court in new york. karma is real. yusef salaam joins me now. well, i have to start by saying, congratulations. i have to just -- you know, a point of personal privilege, it's such a wonderful feeling, having gotten to know you through the newspaper, as also a teenager, only a little older than you, and going through the agonizing hell from way outside in the safety of my auntie's

home. getting to cau to you now, in this situation, when you are about to represent harlem in the city council, it is a good feeling. i wonder what that feeling is like for you? >> you know, i'm still -- it's a dream. i'm still living -- i'm on cloud nine, i've got to tell you. you know, the memory of everything that i've gone through is full circle. being able to understand that that which i came through was to make sure that i was prepared for what the next journey would come, what would come on the journey, the store that opened up, the fact that i can speak truth to power, the fact that i power, the fact that i can carry the voices of people that counted out, pushed to the back, into the halls of power, my very own harlem home, this is such a beautiful thing for me, i'm really -- i'm still -- i'm still -- >> i can only imagine. i can only imagine. i wonder if you've had time to

step back and think about what your experience, the horrific experiences you had, but also the sort of galvanizing impact of the public rooting for you all and fighting for you all, and so many people who never let you all be forgotten, all the quay through your exoneration and subsequent cases against the city of new york. what has that taught you, that you are going to then bring to the table from all of those experiences as a representative of your community? >> you know, that's taught me that as a person who has ten children. many of my children in fact are part of the group of people who have rated new language that we are all trying to understand, things like yolo and things of that nature, right. and i remember when i first heard the term "yolo." immediately when it was explained to me, i realized in the young person's mind, when they've seen george floyd get

murdered, breonna taylor, eric gardner on staten island, it occurred to me in the young person's mind, they don't believe there is a tomorrow. so there is a certain sense of hopelessness that we're living through. here we are 34 years later looking at this whole trajectory of this experience, the arc of moral justice, if you will. here i was 15 years old, and now i'm 49. and i think what i represent really is it's possible that young people can look at a person like me and say if he was able to grow through something like that, i most definitely can get through anything, because if you can understand the why, all right, why did i go through that? why did i grow through that, right? i got to change that language. why did i grow through that? i grew through it in order to understand the system from the inside out, so that when the time came, i could really be an advocate for our people, understanding what the pain

points are. as i walked and said those who have been close to the pain have to have a seat at the table. and what better way the lead and to serve our people. >> amen to that. you took the ad that donald trump took out against you and your brothers, and you turned into it your own ad. and he said bring back the death penalty. what you said is that now that you've been indicted and are facing criminal charges, i do not resort to hatred, bias or racism as you once did, even though 34 years ago you actively called for my death and the death of four other innocent children, i wish you no harm. that is incredible grace. and you're a gracious man. and i wonder if your brothers sort of agree with that sort of sentiment of kind of moving past it, and whether you've talked to them since you won this resounding primary victory and what they think of all of this. >> i got to tell you, they are definitely oh my goodness, this is such a proud moment.

i've gotten so many cheers from our group, from my sacred brotherhood, that it's been amazing, amazing, amazing. you know, i'm quite aware of statements like our great james baldwin where he said to be african american is african without memory and american without privilege. so here we are. my words really is that i have hope. i have hope that we can one day become the united states of america as opposed to the divided states of america. hope that one day we will really be able to see equality, and in fact also experience equity, you know. so much has transpired. and much of it is really to get us to believe that we were second class citizens. even when i look at the documents that founded this country, we the people it starts. and if we take a pause, black and brown people, black people in general were not considered a whole human being. to have the community lift me

up, to have my brothers that i experienced this with, you know, be along for the ride. they're here for all of it. they enjoy it. they love it. i mean, it is so full circle. i got to tell you, i can't go anywhere now without someone saying can i take a picture with you? and i love that. because i represent that hope that we all need. i represent the fact that we have to begin to count on ourselves, bet on ourselves. we have to begin also to plan in 50 to 100-year cycles. because if we plan -- oh, we don't have a plan. if we say we're not guaranteed tomorrow and start living in hopelessness, continue hopeless living for five years. you will be in a hole that you can't get out of. you have to live in purpose and with purpose and although we are our ancestors' wildest dreams. that is a sermon. and the first time i got to finally meet you in person, i said can i take a picture with you? and the next time i see you, i want to take another picture with you. i'm so proud of you and so

excited for harlem and for new york and for all of us, for culture. yusef salaam, let me get it right, dr. yusef salaam, thank you. congratulations. >> oh, thank you so much. appreciate you so much. >> and that is tonight's "the reidout." have a great fourth of july. "the beat" is up next.

(wheezing) asthma isn't pretty. it's the moment when you realize that a good day... is about to become a bad one. but then, i remembered that the world is so much bigger than that, with trelegy. because one dose a day helps keep my asthma symptoms under control. and with 3 medicines in 1 inhaler, trelegy helps improve lung function so i can breathe easier for a full 24 hours. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. trelegy contains a medicine that increases risk of hospitalizations and death from asthma problems when used alone. when this medicine is used with an inhaled corticosteroid, like in trelegy, there is not a significant increased risk of these events. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase risk of thrush and infections. get emergency care for serious allergic reactions.

see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. ♪ what a wonderful world. ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for asthma - because breathing should be beautiful. so, you've got the power of xfinity at home. now take it outside with xfinity mobile. ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for asthma - like speed? it's the fastest mobile service around. with the best price for two lines of unlimited. only $30 bucks a line per month. that's hundreds in savings a year when you wave bye to the other guys. save hundreds a year on your wireless bill over t-mobile, at&t and verizon. and right now, get up to $1000 off select samsung phones. switch today. - [narrator] wounded warrior project helped me find the strength to go further than i ever thought possible. - [narrator] i was able to come outta my shell and really connect with others. - [narrator] so i can feel like part of a team, part of the community again. - [narrator] it's possible to live better. - [narrator] it's possible to have a voice and to be heard.

- [narrator] to feel understood. - [narrator] to find peace. - because i've experienced firsthand that anything is possible. (inspirational music) welcome to this two-hour edition of "the beat." i'm alicia menendez in for ari melber. two years