listen on screen right here. this is part of our on going digital initiative. so i hope you'll give it a listen because it's something we wanted to do to mark the coverage last week we definitely talked about the majority opinion. this is a chance to hear from a forthright dissent. "the reid out" with joy reid is up next. ♪♪ tonight on "the reid out" -- >> american people as a whole recognize that we have in the past been wrong of deprooiing certain minor tis of their constitutional rights. and when we make the decision to see that they will in the future have these rights, then i think i'll be on the way to solving most of our domestic problems. >> that was retired republican former governor and supreme court chief justice earl warren,

back in 1969. today, conservative justices are acting like a super legislative body to roll back rights, pushing a right wing agenda that the majority of americans do not want. also tonight, the culture of violence in america. and how the powerful gun lobbyists created a permission structure where it's not just about the right to own guns, it's fair game to use them. and sinking in the polls. ron desantis is now pushing his vulgar, hate-filled anti-lgbtq message all across america in lieu of any actual policy proposals to help the american people. but we begin tonight with the supreme court, which now days is acting more like a super congress, with last week's rulings on affirmative action and lgbtq rights and on everything from voting rights to women's right, labor policies and guns, they acted like unelected politicians and not a court. it's the result of a long game

from a right wing that recognizes that they have lost the culture wars. so instead, they say fine. we can't win at the ballot box. here is how we'll enact ultraconservative policies, the court. it's not just what they personally want, idealogically. it is what the billionaires who fund them want, to bypass the public and let these six people do the work for them. as my friend and colleague writes, today's conservative justices are happily imposing their reactionary legislative vision on america. not just by interpreting laws, but by effectively rewriting them in order to implement unpopular policies. they could never get passed through congress. separations of powers be damned. unlike the courts of the last century, this court has completely given away the capacity to surprise. you know how each of these right wing justices are going to rule. they do exactly what you think they're going to do, most of the time. that wasn't always the case. during the court presided over

by chief justice earl warren from 1953 to 1969, americans could genuinely wonder how the justices might rule on any given case. and you couldn't guess based on who nominated them or how conservative they were. take associate justice hugo black, who had been a member of the kkk as a younger man. yet was part of a unanimous -- was part of unanimous rulings in favor of school desegregation and legalizing interracial marriage. or justice harry blackman, nominated by richard nixon who wrote the majority opinion enshrining abortion protections in roe v. wade and two reagan nominees and bush nominee who joined with the majority upholding reproductive rights 20 years later during the court presided over by chief justice william rehnquist. another republican nominee on the court took his conservative colleagues to task for they decision in bush v gore, justice john paul stevens. the right has since succeeded in

making a court that will never surprise them again. thanks to its bench of hard right ied logs served up by the federalist society. they have just in the last year on the john roberts court succeeded in erasing 70 years of protected rights for women, black americans sh lgbtq people and not just because the people who put them on the court are ideologs but because they themselves are ideologs. donald trump put his stamp on the court with three justices, including amy coney barrett. before justice barrett was picked for the federal courts and jammed on to the court despite an impending election, she was a paid speaker five times at the black stone legal fellowship. a summer program established to inspire a distinctly christian world view in every area of law. the blackstone program is run by alliance defending freedom. now if you're not familiar with the alliance defending freedom or adf, you are familiar with

their work. they've been designated an anti-lgbtq hate group. the adfers and the colorado baker who refused to make a cake for the gay couple and been involved in the barrage of anti-transgender bills being considered in states across the country. the adf also wrote the mississippi law behind the supreme court's decision throwing out 50 years of reproductive freedom in dobbs versus jackson's women's health. and now they're behind the current case to kill the abortion bill mifepristone an effort funded by billionaires whose names you have heard or or who don't want you to hear them. the shadowy's donor trust and the charles koch constitute. they scored a victory in the name of christianity thanks to this supreme court. representing the evangelical web designer never made wedding websites but didn't want to make hypothetical sites for lgbtq couples who didn't exist. the alliance defending freedom

wasn't the only shady group backed by right wing billionaires to have the court do its bidding, turning back the clock last week the court also ruled in favor of students for fair admissions, in killing affirmative action in college admissions except students for fair admissions involved no students just white conservative activist named ed blum who worked waged a long war against anything race based in public life. blum orchestrated the challenges that led to shelby county versus holder. the court ruling that gutted black voting rights. and later, recruited white student abigail fisher in his previous unsuccessful attempt to kill affirmative action in a case against the university of texas. after that loss, he pivoted at one point telling a chinese american group in houston, quote, i needed asian plaintiffs but he didn't find any. no asian american students testified against affirmative

action. the asian students who did testify did so in favor of affirmative action. but that didn't matter to this court. it helped that the dean of the school of legislative jurisprudence, clarence thomas, had his own long desire to kill the program he himself benefitted from and thus to pull the ladder up behind him. the same clarence thomas whose own votes in cases like citizens united pushed dark money into our politics and whose billionaire benefactors do more than just pay for financial goodies and treats for him personally. they also hate the things that he and his right wing colleagues are so eager to overturn. namely, the will of the people. the will of the people apparently be damned. joining me now is michael kirk, documentary film maker and drerkt of the pbs front line documentary clearance and ginni thomas, politics, power and the supreme court. and david jolly, msnbc political analyst and former republican congressman who is no longer affiliated with the party. thank you both for being here. michael kirk, i want to start with you.

i watched your documentary. it was fascinating. i want to play a clip from it for those who haven't seen it yet. i recommend everybody watch it. this was something new to me. the nexus between clarence thomas and one rush limbaugh. take a listen. >> thomas told people he stopped reading mainstream news. instead, he relied on two primary sources -- his wife and rush limbaugh. >> he would listen to rush limbaugh as he was doing the long commute and he would have court staff tape record it so he could listen to it when he was commuting. >> you're attempt to assuage all your white guilt by supporting obama is worthless because you know he's not a real black. if any race of people should not have guilt about slavery, it's caucasians. >> the two became close friends. >> the fear was clarence thomas' confirmed he then becomes the most powerful influential black

man in america, and he is not a democrat and he's not a liberal. >> michael kirk, it seems to me that the current supreme court is now a court of rush limbaugh's dreams. how did the right build that? >> well, it's -- as you totally set up perfectly, there's a war in the country. it's a closer war as we know. but it's also a political and a war of our -- about our institutions and in our institutions and the results of what our institutions yield. lot of trouble about presidency, a lot of trouble about konks but only in the last 40 years or so has the supreme court come up for and then put in play largely by, as you appropriately say, joy, wealthy individuals who are represent the republican party but also represented change in america and they've been hunting justices and people who would suit that role for the last 40

years. starting with robert's case long ago. leading to the creation of the federalist society and then the selection of certain justices waiting for the right time, all under the tutelage of a name you didn't mention, a film i also called about mitch mcconnell and the power of mcconnell to know when to hold him and when to fold them. and it's been fascinating to watch. and it is part and parcel of, i think, the last great fight in our democracy over an institution that people are increasingly feeling it's just not what it used to be. it's not fair that justices are compromised in lots of ways, especially the conservative justices. and there's no calling them to do for it for what they've done. so it's a kind of tragic thing that's happening inside the court. and god knows what we used to

think of as settled law is now open -- it's open season on everything that has ever been passed before. and it comes from -- it comes from these justices who are not only id logically driven, but are in a war and are warriors in that battle. >> you know, david jolly, you know, the be jork situation was late reagan achgs, 1987 and clarence thomas comes along in 1992. and i think one could argue perjured himself on the bench. it seems from that era on what we've had is every justice perjuring themselves. no one wants to be suitor. back when you were republican you heard that name thrown around, justice suitor who surprised people. he ruled in surprising ways. people thought he would be conservative. earl warren was a conservative, republican of california. yet i think of the loving case an all-white nine white guys, right, nine white men, many of whom were conservatives gave a

9-0 ruling in loving. the justices used to surprise you. but it seems to me that after suitor, the right said we're never going to be surprised again. if they have to perjure themselves, they'll get on this court and get rid of roe v. wade, check. get rid of lgbtq rights, check. they're on the way to doing that. they're rolling back the warren court and the 20th century. what do you make of the fact that republicans don't seem to believe they can do that through persuasion? they don't believe their case is strong enough to make through the political process that they're deciding this court is going to do it for them? >> yeah. this has been a ideological strategy decades in the making as you laid out. the anxiety of many americans they feel now that the supreme court is outside of the reach of accountability. that the current justices, whether they senate did not have strong enough oversight during the confirmation hearings the american people say, wait a minute, the court is going in a direction that i'm not

necessarily comfortable with. and i think we have to rift of an era off of this, joy, for democrats in particular, i know there's a hesitation on expanding the court. i am a recent convert to this, but if you consider, if you believe, that truly we're in a moment where democracy and our rights are falling, if you will, and we're a nation that suffered the injury of january 6th, that we have a presidential candidate who may win who is promising retribution for the next four years that we seen a court roll back civil rights, voting rights, protections of equality and certain fundamental rights we believed we had, if democracy is in that much peril, it is not a big case to make to expand the number of seats on the court. and there is historical precedence for it, right? we know that the constitution doesn't say there has to be nine. the number of court justices has changed, i believe, six times. it's been 150 years since. there's currently 13 appellate circuits or appellate districts you can align the justices with the number of appellate

districts as once was done in history. i think democrats can make the case substantively on protection of rights but also a clear analytical case for why this is an era in which we can consider expanding the court. and then the passionate arguments about mcconnell stopping merrick garland and green lighting barrett are just fuel to the fire for what is a rational argument to protect democracy and protect our rights today. >> yeah. you know, michael, having studied the court and done these documentaries, looking at it, they have no ethics rules. they don't have to live by any of the normal ethic rules that city council people have to live by. is there a sense that you've gotten of what changes would actually make the court less of a mini congress? >> well, absolutely. history has taught us that the supreme court should be -- they think of themselves as philosopher kings. they should be above the day to

day struggle of the law. the fact is as the former congressman said, there is a move and the move seems to be gaining steam to do something about the court. either term limits, make the court bigger, make the court smaller, don't replace justices maybe when they leave. make it completely different. and that is, i think, a move that's under way, whether it will actually happen, whether congress -- because it's still going to have to be congress and still going to have people and we know from watching and reading the newspapers everyday that congress is a blood feud up there. and it's now made its way to the court. i don't see how it all works its way out. you know, i just -- i talk to everybody, been there, followed it for years. and i don't see a positive way that this ends legislatively until the congress and the american people stand up and say, hang on. let's do something about this.

and i haven't seen that movement really take fire yet. but it is happening. people are talking about it in a way they didn't five or ten years ago. >> all right. we are out of time, david, i'll let you get a very quick word. how do democrats get people to be fired up about it? >> i'm an optimist. democrats make a bold legislative agenda going into '24 on affirmative action, on student loans, on lgbt protections, voting rights, civil rights and say not only will we legislate within the current parameters we have been given by the court, we're asking you, the voter, to allow us to expand the court as well. it's a bold agenda and voters will respond to. >> michael kirk and david jolly, thank you both very much. y'all should watch that documentary clearance and ginny. it is really good. up next on "the reidout" -- how american gun manufacturers encouraged not just owning guns but using them. "the reidout" continues after this. but using them "the reidout" continues after this i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, let me put a reminder on my phone.

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the long holiday weekend shattered some records, scientists believe that july 4th may have been one of the hottest days in about 125,000 years. and as the world was suffering under intense heat, the u.s. was suffering, again, from extreme violence. according to the gun violence archive, at least 17 mass shootings were recorded across the country over the fourth of july holiday weekend. yesterday, nine people were shot outside a holiday party in washington, d.c. on monday night, a shooter in a

bullet proof vest randomly opened fire in philadelphia, killing five people and wounding a toddler and a teenager. that same night, three people were killed and eight wounded when a few men just started shooting into a massive crowd in a suburb outside of ft. worth, texas. on sunday, 30 people were shot, two fatally, at a block party in baltimore. aleah gonzalez was one of the victims. she was only 18. >> she was amazing. she was going to be so big. and her star is so bright. >> he was the best sister i could ever ask for. and i miss her so bad. >> sadly, there is nothing more quintessentially american than fireworks and gun violence. so far we've had more than 350 mass shootings this year. according to a recent survey, around 1 in 5 americans has lost a family member to gun violence.

1 in 5. more than half of american adults have said that they or a family member have experienced a gun-related incident, more than half. violence, terror and trauma doesn't happen in a vacuum. this country is awash with guns and the gun lobby is using its power to both increase access to them and to expand gun owner's right to shoot first and ask questions later. on july 2nd, florida allowed permitless carry. florida after hosting a string of gut-wrenching mass shootings has leaned into its permissive stand your ground laws. carolina light literally wrote the book on these laws writes for the tampa bay times florida has become a stand your ground hell scape which lethal violence can be shoe horned into a tidy narrative of armed good guys deflecting a multitude of suspicious bad guys.

those bad guys are pool cleaner, ride sharing customers, furniture delivery people and sometimes neighbors. joining me now is ryan buss, a former executive in the firearms industry, now a senior adviser to the gifford's gun violence prevention group and author of "gunfight" my battle against the industry that radicalized america. i'm so glad you're available to talk with us today. i have to say i did not go out on july 4th an would not. it seems insane to me to be blunt in america because america is awash with guns and now people don't just have them, they seem to want to shoot people with them and use them for whatever, you know. what do you think has changed in this country? which has always had a lot of guns in the recent years to make a shooting gallery. >> well, thanks for having me, joy. you know, a lot of ways i'm sorry to be here. but i think a lot has changed, especially in the last 20 years. we have doubled the number of guns in our society in the last

20 years. and i think this really is the test of our democracy. the right to own firearms is an immensely powerful thing. in fact, nothing is more targeted at the ability to remove the life, liberty and pursuit of fellow citizens in a second or two, dozens of them as we have seen sthan the right to own firearms. we double the number of firearms, you would think we would want to double the commensurate responsibility along with those firearms because if we don't do that, i think we can see, right, we are stress testing our democracy here. especially this philadelphia case. that brings to mind the sort of changes i've seen in the firearms industry. 20 years ago, there was no sort of tactical gear that was sold or advertised by the industry. and by the way, tactical means planned, offensive military operation. so, like this kid in philadelphia does, he plans to do this. he gets the gear. he purchases. he researched. he has two guns. one of them a ghost gun, by the way, without a serial number. and then he goes out and

essentially executes a planned military operation. and i don't think that's by accident. the industry now almost exclusively markets tactical gear, in other words, it's for planned, aggressive, offensive operations. >> and the thing is that when ever there's a mass shooting, like, for instance, there's more violent incidences against asian americans because donald trump pinned covid on china. and so the gun industry goes, oh, asian-americans, buy more guns. when ever there's a mass shooting, you see people buy more guns. and now i don't know how anybody can be a doordasher. i don't know how anybody can do a job where they have to deliver to someone's home or deliver amazon. ringing a doorbell is deadly now. the industry has also encouraged not -- the stand your ground laws say don't just have a gun, shoot someone. use it. somebody rings your doorbell, shoot them because we'll protect you under the law. >> yeah. so, look, fear sells guns. if you don't believe that, think of yourself being fearful enough

to even kwhully need to protect yourself or your family. eventually anyone will go purchase a gun if you feel fearful enough. i appreciate the right to defend one's self. my question is, are we really making the choices to live in a country where a kid in kansas city, as you noticed, as you note, knocks on a door to find his siblings and you have this guy so fear-filled and armed in his house that he shoots the kid? i mean, is that really the country we want to live in? because we are making choices that are placing us further and further down that line. and i really think that these are the by-products of this radicalized republican approach where short-term gain for elections is worth any outcome, right? we can increase the fear. we can increase the conspiracy. who cares. as long as we win one more election. who cares what it does to the democracy. well, we might want to start caring. >> people are sitting home main lining fox and getting these false impressions that certain groups of people, particularly black and brown people, are

inherently dangerous. when somebody black knocks on your door, boom, you just shoot them. right? i wonder about an industry that also is showing children with guns. they're marking the idea that little kids should have guns. and then little kids show up to their schools with guns. the industry wants this, right? apparently you asked the question, i think the answer is yes. i think there are certain percentages of americans that do want this to be the way we live. i think the gun industry in general does want it. >> well, i can tell you a dozen or 15 years ago, the industry was a different place much like our politics were. they were imperfect, but they there were norms of responsibility across which people knew not to step. now there is a large segment of the marketing in the firearms industry that says you shouldn't be ready to defend yourself. you should be ready for offensive action against your fellow citizens, right? we are arming ourselves for potential civil war or as some of the stuff you note, i liken to a storm creating its own weather. if you have enough people buying guns to scare enough people then the other people will get guns

and then it just spins and spins like a hurricane sucking up water. and that's a dangerous place to be when we're decreasing responsibility and we're increasing freedom at a rapid rate, like those things have to balance out. we're out of balance right now. >> yeah, indeed. very well said. i pronounced your names wrong. ryan busse. please come back. valuable opportunity to speak with you. thank you. still ahead, maga republicans continue to take the low road with their rhetoric on july 4th. we'll be right back.

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we all have our different thoughts on the fourth of july and weather and how to celebrate the adoption of declaration of independence was not the triumph for most people than it was for the slave owning founders. we can stipulate to that. still, whether you view the day as much-needed day off or fireworks fueled day. each marks the day in their own way. this year in the republican party made interesting choices. the party itself took to twitter to honor the day but seemed to show their true patriotic spirit for liberia. you see the difference there, republicans? the u.s. flag has 13 stripes and

50 stars where as the liberian flag that you used has 11 stripes and one star. you see the difference? and i would be happy to explain why the flags are so similar, but i know how much you hate all the scary slavery-related history stuff, so i won't bother. meanwhile, as is customary, many of the republican presidential candidates participated in local parades in early voting states like iowa and new hampshire. however, the leading republican candidate was not out among the voters but squirrelled away at his new jersey golf club. posting on his social media page. donald trump's july 4th celebration including posting an image with his head superimposed on george washington's body as well as one that included the words, f-biden. and he didn't use f, which he posted at 2:24 in the morning. i mean, does melania hang out with him at all? any way, he also continued his

attacks on the doj and special counsel jack smith over their various investigations into his alleged crimes, that included today, that continued today i should say with trump calling on people to take to the streets. even more deranged post, trump made completely unhinged claims against the biden family regarding a truly bizarre occurrence. a small bag of cocaine found in the white house. yes, we live in that timeline. he went after hunter biden of course and referred to jack smith as a crack head. which i promise you he is not. no, i'm not making this up. joining me now to make this all kind of make sense, i guess, is maria, president and ceo and april ryan, white house correspondent for the grills will o, both are msnbc contributors. you win the short straw, april ryan, of explaining -- >> used to be. still am. >> long-time, og white house

correspondent. >> 26 years. still counting, yes. >> and still counting and covered many, many presidents. please do explain to me the former president. i mean, this guy was the president of the whole united states. but his lack of just basic dignity and decorum, have you, having covered many presidents, experienced anything like that before from any of the others? >> joy, this president the former president, who many believe could be president again and that's real, you cannot explain the thought process of that president, former president. think about what he tweeted. you know, we would hear rantings within the white house about different little things, things that didn't make sense. joy, there is a segment of society that loves this. they love the fact that he goes

against what people perceive as the other. jack smith, can you say anybody else, right? >> wait, can i say april ryan. can we say april ryan? let's play it. let's play the tape. roll the tape. >> oh, boy. >> go ahead. take it. >> well, i'll give you voters -- i will give you voter suppression. you just have to -- sit down please. sit down. i didn't call you. i didn't call you. i didn't call you. i'm not responding. i'm responding to -- excuse me. i'm not responding to you. i'm talking to this gentleman. will you please sit down. excuse me. excuse me. would you please sit down. please, go ahead. very hostile. such a hostile media. it's so sad. you ask me about -- no. you rudely interrupted him. you rudely interrupted him. same thing with april ryan. i watched her get up. i mean, you talk about somebody that's a loser. she doesn't know what the hell she's doing. she's very nasty. and she shouldn't be.

>> i mean, april, those -- >> i can laugh now. i can laugh now. >> i know you were not laughing then, but the reality is abusing a black woman, professional journalist, is part of why people like him. it's racist. it's misogynist. it's his brand. but it is not a dignified performance by a president of the united states. >> you know, let me say this in a very highbrow i guess you will say way when they go low, you go high way according to michelle obama who he also talked about as well, former first lady of the united states. that president has a problem -- had a problem yesterday and today with anyone who asks him something either he doesn't know or he doesn't want to confront. okay? at that time let me take you back to that press conference. it was literally after the midterm election. and there was concern about

voter suppression. and i had -- i was like two to three rows back. and it was -- sir, what about voter suppression. he said i'll give you voter suppression. he responded to me. and when a president responds to you out of respect for the office, you stand and give him that respect. but yet as a 50 some-year-old woman he told me to sit down. a mother, upstanding person in the community. and then the next day they had pulled jim acosta's press pass and i was the next one they wanted to. but i'm still here, five presidents around still counting. >> and mta, the thing about it is that the question for the biden team i guess at this point is how do you respond to that in a country that is easily bored and is easily entertained by somebody like that. >> i think one of the things that we don't laugh at these issues. when he was going after april ryan, when he was going after jim acosta, he was going after

the fourth estate. he was trying to make fun of and intimidate journalists so they were not in positions to ask the hard questions. he didn't want transparency. and what he showed us yesterday on july 4th was his lack of patriotism, his lack of ability to bring people together. and there should be no voter in america that forgets who he really is. he is a divider who peddles in lies and division because he doesn't want us to be smart about what he is about. and what he is about is just himself. he's not about democracy. he's not about -- he's not about policy. and i would just end with this, you know, when he has this superimposed face of himself on george washington, for every person who served in the military, they should take umbrage with that because there's a man who dodged military service over bone spurs because he didn't want to actually fight for the country that so many have sacrificed for. and yesterday was the day of

patriotism and he forgot that most americans were weary of him and so good for him to remind us who he is, as we enter 2024. >> i'm going to bring you back -- hold that thought. we are out of time. but i'm going to bring you both back later. we're going to reassemble this dynamic duo for more segments. we're out of time. thank you. coming up, a new desantis political ad has conservative lgbtq groups up in arms and for good reason. you literally have to see it to believe it. we'll show it to you when we're back after this quick break. >> and want to use the bathroom --. >> and want to use the bathroom --.

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ron desantis' mission to make america florida isn't going so well. i mean, how does a man who took on mickey mouse and lost win the u.s. presidency? things look so bleak, even his own super pac spokesman steve cortez sounded the alarm on a thing called twitter spaces, which i guess elon expects you to pay for. saying, quote, right now in national polling we are way behind. it's an uphill battle but clearly donald trump is the run away front-runner. yikes. so kind of makes sense that desantis released what is possibly the most bizarre ad in political history. warning to our viewers, this is, indeed, real life. >> make america great again. >> psych! ♪♪

>> congratulations, ron desantis. mission accomplished. you win. ♪♪ >> what the -- i mean, what is up with the laser beam eyeballs, ron? are you okay? of course america is thirsty for a candidate spliced with footage of oily bodybuilders and oily sad achilles which by the way is giving in sell tiktok. jokes aside, the ads gross on trance phobia is so extreme. >> you've got some strange imagery of ron desantis being between two oiled-up hunky-type of men. i mean, the ad smacked of both homophobia and homoeroticism at the same time. so anybody who is a political

professional looks at that is really just very confused as to what the point of this ad was and what the intention of it was. >> i mean, yeah. it kind of sums up how most americans feel about the entire campaign to begin with. confused. because the florida blueprint is a prototype they reject. the war on woke is a fight they never signed up for which is why the supreme court supermajority had to use a fake case to legalize discrimination against gay people. someone missed the memo. ron thinks running on hating gay and trans people and weaponizing the government against them and doing a weird ad is a winning campaign tactic. why it never will be, next. gn t. why it never will be, next

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the strangeness of trying to prove your manhood by putting up a video that's places images of you in between oiled up shirtless bodybuilders. who are you trying to help? who are you trying to make

better off? and what public policy problems do you get up in the warm morning thinking about how to solve? >> and with that, the first openly gay cabinet secretary dropped the mic on baby maga lgbtq ad. the ad serves as ron desantis's latest effort to use homophobia to boost his campaign. joining us is host of the clay cane show and michelangelo senior, any host of the michelangelo senior really show. also on sirius xm, a whole series of exam excitement here. mike, i've got to go to you first. we've all internally, all day been trying to explain what this ad is, and my producer just gave me the best answer. it's somebody who is running a super hyper local campaign whose references no one would understand outside of florida. i don't even know what that and is supposed to be. it looks like an ad for, like,

a nightclub or something. can you explain it? what do you take from the ad? >> okay, well, let me give you a couple of ideas of what they're trying to do. first of all, he's desperate. and he is trying to out-hate trump so he's doing two things. he's trying to show that trump is to pro lgbtq, which is insane because some trump was the most anti-lgbtq president. he finds a couple of things that trump sent in 2016 puts them in their. the second thing he's trying to do, which we're all saying is bizarro, weird, crazy, he's trying to reach the incels the nick fuentes clout crowd, the massage in a stick, there homophobic and straight connect with them. all of that imagery, the bodybuilders, christian bail is the american psycho connecting with the ugly alpha male staff. he's trying to get those people on board his campaign. and he thinks everybody else will just say, i don't know

what that is, or won't notice it, i will say it's just crazy. >> you know, klay, i guess getting the incel vote is i guess a way to get the republican nomination. it's weird. are the incels, is that, i mean, as a democratic strategist, are you winning willing to concede the incel vote rhonda santas? >> that would be a mistake. when i was watching the ad, the first thing i thought was, the lady protests too much. i mean, i don't understand the obsession that desantis has with the lgbtq community. getting to larry craig, if you don't know that is looking up. it's disturbing, but what's interesting is that when republicans bomb in the polls, which he is, they go for that southern strategy two point oh tactic. this is the gavers of the willie horner. and he's hoping it will incentivize his base. i hope that it won't. i hope that incel base is not fire enough. but the truth of the matter, you don't know. you never know with gop voters.

they elected trump. >> the thing about it is, michelangelo if you look at the polling that's majority of people, even florida plurality of republicans have come to accept lgbtq people as being worthy of living their lives without discrimination. 71% support gay marriage. that would not even true ten years ago. the only issues that are a little underwater issues regarding trans. but the majority, even people who mostly believe jet transgender people and have rights. that's an issue that feels very retro. what do you make of the fact that not just desantis but even a supreme court, there is an obsession with rolling back gay rights, an obsession with trans people. what do you think that comes from? and what do you think the purpose of it is? it isn't winning new voters over. >> now. for desantis in a general election, this is a disaster. but everything he has done, the six-week abortion ban, everything, it has just been

about trying to make inroads with that base. he'll deal with it later, which i don't know, you saw his numbers, it's pretty clear. what is happening with the supreme court, this is all the reverberation of what donald trump did, right? the damage he did is incalculable, and they are speaking for a minority of americans. this is minority rule. we are seeing it in action. it's only going to get worse if we don't stand up and fight really hard. >> and calais, that is the thing. there is this sort of desperation to rollback the culture culture, the idea that people want to know more history, people are terrified of books. but the anti-lgbtq thing feels particularly aggressive. all the way to the supreme court. is there a concern among democrats that that might somehow resonate with people in a general election? because it doesn't seem like it would. and younger people are done. like, they're not gonna get younger voters this way at all.

>> i think it's important the democrats really capitalize on this. i don't think they should avoid it. i think they should face it head on and show how vaseful this is. and if i could mention real quick, that log cabin republican, they are the gavers black voters for trump. so i hope that they realize that they are coming for you. maybe you didn't care in the voting rights act was gutted in 2013, didn't hear about affirmative action, don't care about roe v. wade, they're coming for same-sex marriage. they're coming for lgbt to q folks. that's the issue now. we sometimes don't care until it impacts us personally. so kind allowed when i heard the head of that particular gay republican group. you are on the list to, whether or not you know. it >> and michelangelo, that feels, to me, very real. i think people are killing themselves if they think the supreme court's not gonna come for all of us. >> clarence thomas gave a signal a dodge decision. he said they wanted to revisit that. what we just saw last week was

a catastrophe for rights. they are on a radical role. and we've got to do everything we can to stop them. >> everybody is on the menu except white christian conservatives. wake up everybody. stay. woke clay cane, michelangelo signorile thank you very much. that's it for the readout. all in with chris hayes starts right now. al>> tonight on all in. >> is there anything desantis could do to win over your support? >> no. >> the desperate quest to capture the soul of the republican party through hate and division. >> he's a bad candidate. he is not good. people don't like him. that has been proven to be the case. >> then the, how two states found one trump judge to score a massive fourth of july victory for misinformation. plus, and donald trump's codefendant heads to court, what we are learning from newly-unredacted mar-a-lago search