they will be able to do that at this point. investigation is ongoing. unlikely because how trafficked that area was? expect because of the high traffic and whether or not they will get any usable information from the sample. by kelly ohdonnel, thank you so much. that wraps it up for me. i'm lindsey reiser. i will see you back here tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. eastern. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. right now i'm andrea mitchell reporting. the fbi has immense video from mar-a-lago showing boxes of those classified documents removed before the search. this reveals more of the search warrant unsealed by a federal judge. where is -- the president of belarus says he didn't have them. where is he? he could have gone to moscow or maybe somebody else. is not on the territory of belarus. >> decision 2024, former vice president mike pence defending his actions on january 6th as will bulger pushes donald

trump's conspiracy theories. if it wasn't for your boat we would not have joe biden the white house. >> the constitution says you open and count votes. no more, no less but that's actually what the constitution says that no vice president in american history ever asserted the authority that you have been convinced that i had. spread the north dakota governor doug bergen joins me on why he is running and what he has to say about donald trump xp my visit to where was, mexico. and inspiring orchestra conductor is helping hundreds of young people find joy and purpose in the love of music. >> we see people that come from tijuana, here locally, and it's amazing to be able to share the culture. back we are saving lives. music saves lives. >> ♪ ♪

good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington, where learn more about the evidence that federal investigators used to get that were approved search warrant for mar-a-lago last summer. the new details made public by the florida judge include buses to permit concerns about the whereabouts of top-secret documents also, unsealed the gerty videos not made available to the public. showing trump personal aide walter nauta moving boxes out of a storage area where trump had previously acknowledged keeping classified documents. just one hour ago in florida mr. walter nauta making his initial court appearance and pleading not guilty during his arraignment in miami after two failed attempts to hire a florida lawyer for the proceedings. joining me now is in bc-garrett hick and joyce vance. garrett, what have you learned from what has been made public a lot in the last 24 hours?

a lot is still retracted, but that search warrant was a trove of new evidence for us. like a ton of detail about how the fbi and the justice department came to the conclusions that search on mar-a-lago that brought this case into the open public knowledge became necessary. they describe a month-long campaign of letters back and forth to the trump attorneys, the custodian of documents, trying to figure out what is there. and piece of evidence that really opens it up is the videotapes that you described in which investigators they vacancy walk not going to the storage room and boxes come out but not as many boxes come back and. a trump attorney attests, look, i turned over everything we've got. the fbi can watch the tape and say we know you didn't search all the boxes. it's clear that the evidence that kicked this into high gear. ultimately, lead to that raid that made us all aware of what was going on at mar-a-lago.>> where the attorneys there didn't sign the affidavit, but he tested to he thought it was altered over and he did that

not knowing. he was misled by his client. >> that seems to be the case that laid out in this affidavit, corcoran would not have been party to all knowledge about where these boxes were. he may have thought that everything that was in the storage room at the time it was searched was everything. we know from the indictment itself in this affidavit that this wasn't the case but it's not clear that corcoran knew this at the time, what he was told or not told. perhaps the majority of this document is still redacted but there's a lot the fbi and the doj know about this search that we still don't. that joyce vance, i should point out i believe nbc news was one of the litigants pressing for the reductions to be removed but what is your reaction to the revelation so far? and what the security videos could mean for warren nado who just pleaded guilty for that? >> it means, to answer the last part first, there will be an enormous amount of pressure on

walt nodded to cooperate with the government. if he does not, it's almost a certainty he will go to prison for years. he is part of the instruction of justice in this case those penalties are very significant. we know a lot of the information we are seeing in these newly unredacted bits of the affidavit from the indictment itself, but what this does is confirms our understanding that the evidence prosecutors have compiled here is thorough, detailed, overwhelming but they will have physical evidence in the form of video showing the number of boxes that were there but boxes that were removed, boxes that attorneys couldn't search. walter nauta and donald trump try to conceal them from the government. this new evidence only adds to the pressure that will mount on walt nodded at some point in these proceedings.:we see him still as the embodiment, he is well donald trump at every

stop. with that kind of relationship and presumably a lifetime guarantee for him and his family, whatever else might have been offered, they're not even supposed to talk about the case warning tonight in the closest possible way how could he actually have flipped? but it's a very interesting situation. the reporting suggests his lawyer is being paid for by one of trump's packs. there was also reporting trump had to approve his selection of a lawyer. we see how that works in other cases with trump's business cl with allen weisselberg who has continued to support trump, who has gone to prison for trump others have broken away. we saw cassidy hutchinson during the january six committee hearings pixi tells the story of how she felt compelled to stay trump, because she could not afford to pay for trump lawyer. that seems similar to the situation not it is in.

even his lawyer who is paid for by donald trump, in essence, has an obligation to represent while not a. and to bring too many offers the government makes it prosecutors suggest he should perhaps come in for a proper or there might be some way to resolve his situation, then his lawyers are obligated to bring that to him and let him decide for himself. >> garrett, you have watched this relationship up close but i want to ask you about that but also the campaign-finance hall, as the quarter ended. donald trump brought in a lot of money from his own fundraising, i guess. i'm from the super packed exec nauta and trump have been inseparable since trump has been out of office. i have covered numerous events where he is by his side. the idea that there is any daylight between them physically isn't there. on the campaign-finance front,

it's interesting, because this is another case in which the legal issues around donald trump and the campaign of donald trump art inextricably intertwined. the campaign is now saying they raised $35 million for their combined campaign and for the save america pact, which is interesting, because impact is being used in part to pay some of donald trump's legal fees and could potentially be being used to pay nauta's as well. we are in campaign-finance season. all of the campaigns try to get the most favorable tell they can tell about their fundraising. the time the trump campaign, this is coming from the top unofficial. what they are not things how much they're spending, what have left on hand, and what is a split between the campaign and the fact that all that information was to still come out. that topline number is enormous and likely dwarf anything else the field is able to bring in. that probably one of the reasons why, welcome a lot of reasons why the president is doing so many camping trips. not just today, but other trips. >> public perceptions of how big that number will be is a big story in early july, all the

time, and campaigns.>> builds more supporters. thank you so much. good to see you. joyce vance, to you, thank you so much. where is he? new questions about the whereabouts of the man at the center of that short-lived russian revolt but what the president of belarus told nbc news pick specs for nbc news exclusive. the secret back channel efforts by a group of former american officials trying to lay the groundwork for what they hope could be negotiations to end the war in ukraine. andrea mitchell reports is back in just 60 seconds. stay with us. you are watching msnbc.

when you really need to sleep. you reach for the really good stuff. zzzquil ultra helps you sleep better and longer when you need it most. its non-habit forming and powered by the makers of nyquil. exclusive fronts today as we follow the shifting balance between russia and ukraine. inside russia as well. and in belarus but we have all covered with our team around the world and here in washington. first, we start with mystery surrounding the whereabouts of the head of the wagner group,

the russian mercenary army. that has deepened today. if any pagosa has not been seen since his troops marched on moscow nearly 2 weeks ago. the president of belarus had offered him refuge as part of is a deal after they had that short-lived uprising. today he said pagosa is in russia. :where is he this morning? he could have gone to moscow or maybe somewhere else. he is not on the territory of belarus. like these images released by a russian news outlet report police searching his home in st. petersburg. and beaking news has not independently verified that video. joining me now from minsk, nbc news chief international correspondent spoke with the president of belarus today. what else do we know about his whereabouts? i should say come on this program two weeks ago, about two weeks ago, the said the head of the senate intelligence committee said he is in belarus

but that was you is intelligence at that stage. now lukashenko was a little bit , shall i say, ambivalent or ambiguous about it today? he was raising the question as to whether he is in russia. what is your take away? >> yeah. it might be that prigozhin was here in belarus when that was reported on your show, ondrea. we were at the presidential palace for this press conference, one of the few international news organizations invited to take part but what we learned was stunning. lukashenko, as you mentioned, in prigozhin, who, remember, is accused by lukashenko and president putin of getting cozy and causing a civil war in russia. in fact, he's in russia, lukashenko suspect that he's a free man and he and his forces may never come here to belarus but of course, we wanted to understand more about it but i tried to question him on the

details. take a listen. >> thank you very much for the conversation. can i encourage you as a conversation to give us more detail? what have you discussed with for goshen and president putin about what happens next? go have you reached any conclusions? people will be surprised and mystified that a man who you say is, say, could have caused a civil war in russia, is it still in russia.>> when we meet with putin we will discuss this topic but i will give you my point of view. i was here this point of view with putin as well. in order to redeem himself and redeem wagner i would send them to the hottest battle. pickle and redeem yourself. >> you show those images not confirmed by nbc news given to russian media of a raid on

promotion's home with packed bundles of dollar bills and fake passports. overnight there was a report on russian state tv discrediting for goshen talk about his criminal history. we might be seeing the grandma trying to reestablish putin's authority at a push to discredit prigozhin. what happened to the man himself ? that is still a question. there have been some twists and turns here in belarus and russia. i think it's incredible and hard to predict. >> thank you so much for you and thanks for being there in minsk. now to an nbc exclusive report. a good performance in yes senior u.s. national security officials have been holding secret talks with prominent russians believed to be close to the kremlin. to try to lay the groundwork for a potential negotiation to end the war in ukraine. russian foreign minister sergei lavrov met with members of the group in april that's according

to four former officials. joining now, the person who broke this story, josh letterman . let's talk about these talks what you know was discussed? >> the whole premise of these talks is compromise and building confidence between russia and the united states, which is very lacking right now. understandably, the participants in these talks have been very reluctant to disclose what they have discussed with russians, because they feel like that could lead to this channel of communication really shutting down. as you know well, the u.s. and its allies are really eager to see this were moving to a phase of peace negotiations but hopefully, by later this year as the u.s. presidential election approaches with questions about how republicans might support ukraine. and slower than expected progress by the

counteroffensive that ukraine has been conducting against russian forces there. the premise of these talks have been okay, the ukrainians probably unlikely in a peace deal to accept any of their territory permanently becoming part of russia. the russians probably unlikely to. up all of their troops and simply go home. what is a middle ground compromise, potentially looking like we, around the time of that multi-our meeting that sergei lavrov, the top russian dip diplomat, had in europe with former u.s. officials, several of them, richard hoff and charlie captain of the council on foreign relations penned a piece in the magazine foreign affairs where they describe the idea of taking some of the territory currently held by russia and ukraine and making it essentially a demilitarized zone for a period of time, possibly under u.n. control or some kind of a peacekeeper there. you can start to see how these groups of people in these

unofficial channels are starting to feel out what potential compromises could potentially be amenable both to moscow and washington. the big question is what would be amenable to ukraine? >> also, what would be amenable to putin. what was i in turkey when they were in the initial negotiations more than a year ago was that lavrov was there, but he didn't speak for putin. putin is so isolated that aside from solu, the defense chief, no one knows who is close to him anymore. >> you're absolutely right but one of the points that all of the space is familiar with these talks have emphasized to us is that at the end of the day there is one decision-maker in russia. if you are not speaking to people president putin you're not really speaking to the person that will ultimately call the shots here. at the same time, we haven't seen a lot of talks between, for tampa, president putin and

president biden. this is an effort to keep those channels of communication open. fascinating. thank you so much. russian jets harassed american drones in syria on wednesday. u.s. air force commanding officer said the russian aircraft engaged in unsafe and unprofessional behavior. joining me now is nbc pentagon correspondent, courtney cupey who has broken these stories. talk to us about what has happened but this is part of a pattern that we are seeing. >> earlier this year that same general who put out this demo, the head of all their forces in central command in the middle east area, he told us in an exclusive interview, in fact, this was happening nearly on a daily basis in the spring. it's not unprecedented but what's different about this case is we have been seeing, we saw yesterday, how aggressive these russian aircraft were with these u.s. drones. they dropped parachute flares. you can see it in the video but

that means they're essentially dropping a lighted flare right in front of these u.s. drones as they are flying. in one case, where the aircraft, these russian jets, let off its afterburner into one of the drones that obscured the pilot on the ground, my course, the pilot ability to apply it. it's potentially dangerous. another thing, something you talk about all the time on your show. the idea of communications between these countries. one place where the medication mine continued to be open was this decompression line over syria. that's u.s. military talking to the russian military, usually a kernel to a colonel, to make sure these instances don't get worse. >> what about what is happening with the u.s. navy? these tankers, these enormous tankers that have been threatened by iranian ships? >> it's another thing that we have seen happen. it has escalated a bit in recent months to the point where the u.s. navy has stepped up some of their patrols in the

area. what this is is iranian navy ships that come up close to these commercial vessels, in this case of yesterday commercial oil tankers, try to get them to stop and pull into territorial waters. with what the u.s. military tells us is to express an intent of aborting them and seizing the cargo. in both cases yesterday u.s. navy ships and surveillance aircraft overhead and chased off the iranian navy ships but not before, in one case near the coast of oman, shots were fired and the ship was damaged. >> this is, our adversaries working closely together as well, the iranians arming the russians and helping them with oil. thank you so much. republican challenger residential candidate, north dakota governor doug burnham joining the next and why he is one against donald trump. you are watching andrea mitchell reports on msnbc.

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if trump should win the primary , will you vote for him? >> i voted for him twice and he goes against biden i will absolutely vote for him. >> join me now, republican presidential candidates, doug berman, the governor of north carolina. -- north dakota. it's good to see you. first of all, --:good to see you. thanks for having me on the show. >> it's our pleasure. want to talk to all the candidates. you just said yesterday it's a no-brainer you would vote for donald trump if he is the nominee. that begs the question, what

about the indictments, the potential criminal trials for two impeachments? that does not give you any pods?>> we are running our campaign against joe biden and every other candidate in the republican field gets a chance to run their campaigns the way they want to be where very focused on three things that we are focused on the economy, which touches every american, energy policy, which is you cannot separate from the economy and you can't separate it from national security. right now the biden administration is 180 degrees wrong on all three of these, whether high interest rates, the fact that we are actually trying to buy energy from our adversaries versus selling to our allies. which is in part what led us to the whole mess we are in ukraine, because we let western europe, our traditional allies, become dependent on russian energy. national security if you spend most of the show talking about what's happening with china, iran, russia these are topics that need to be right and center . it is the reason why we are in this race but it's

the topics we will be talking about, we because we know this matters to every american.>> do you approve of her president trump's conduct on fabry six? i know you have criticized the violence, but what about donald trump did specifically, which has been established, generally sixth? >> i think what we are talking about is the future. we are in a spot where our competitors overseas, china, russia, everybody, love it when americans are divided. they love it when we are talking about the past but we love when we are talking about documents but i was in the private sector my entire career before i can governor. obviously, a country of our size and power, the world's largest economy, and we've got vice president pins, president biden, secretary of state hillary clinton, president trump, everybody having document management problems. the private sector you get document management systems and this doesn't happen. and then we can actually talk about the issues you were

talking about on this show that really affect our standing in the world. as president we won't have document management problems but we will focus on the things that matter going forward. we have got to be, we have to be looking to the future. america is hurting. we care deeply about the people of this country. we are wanting to be a uniter, not a divider but we are running to get people be focused on the things the federal government should be focused on and not all these distractions.>> governor, donald trump ran on, and elected businessman, i can fix things but we saw a lot of things that went wrong. arguably. do you see joe biden as alleged legitimate elected president? >> yes. i do. i think the difference, although i have been a businessman, i started from scratch but every job i had when i was a kid my dad was a world war ii veteran who passed away when i was, he served in the navy in world war ii, apart from my mom 2.5 years, lived to tell about it, in the pacific

war >> when he passed away when i was a freshman in high school i had a little farm ground and i used that start up capital for a software company, which we grew into a through 2000 person company but before that every job i had, working as a chimney sweep to pay my way through college, i had jobs we start at the end of the day, not the beginning of the day. i know what it's like to cut my a pay as a small business owner to pay my team members. we need a leader that understands technology, understands business, understands and has the character and the credibility that understands we have to treat taxpayers like customers and understands the job of president is not about yourself, it's about the people of america. we are in is to serve but we know that we got the leadership capability to build high- performing organizations in a changing economy. we have never had anyone run for president with a checked background. that is critically important

now, whether military defense, maintaining our edges as the number one economy, or whether it's making sure that we are creating economic opportunity for every american. that's part of the future that we have. we know we have got a lot to bring in competition is great for america. it's great for the republican party. we are excited to be part of this race back let me ask you about abortion. you signed into law in the strictest bands in the nation at six-week many people, the majority, believe that his extreme. >> welcome i support the dobbs decision. this return of the decision back to the states and what is right for north dakota will not work for california or new york. it doesn't even work for minnesota. i think that decision should remain in the states. >> i want to ask you also about gtq issues. lgbtq issues but you are against lgbtq rights. :that's not exactly true.

we believe every american needs to be respected and all of that. i'm not exactly sure what you are saying. we do support fairness in women's sports. we do support making sure we've got inclusive environments in what we do. i'm not exactly sure how you're making that statement.'s back wall,, well, do support some of the recent rulings, including the supreme court ruling that vote against a website? serving customers who are ? >> that's really about religious freedom. in america one of the things that has been a hallmark for our whole country is we have freedom from religion. we have freedom of speech but you can't have compelled speech in this country. you can't require people to say things they don't want to say. we've also got freedom from religion. not just freedom of religion. i support the spring court on that decision, because it's really about free speech and

religious freedom. :well, thank you very much, doug burgum but it's the beginning of a conversation on the campaign trail. thank you for joining us today.:thank you. getting back to the white house and investigation. new details about the cocaine found inside the white house but that's next. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. zeda so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪

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breaking news updating the

secret service investigation into trying to figure out who left a small bag of cocaine at the white house. nbc news has learned bag was found in the west wing on sunday. it will not be tested for dna and fingerprints. investigation could be completed by monday. joining me now is white house correspondent kelly ohdonnel. the big change is where this was found but it was found by my observation in a much more secure place with limited access place than that west wing reception area. it's still infrequently trafficked place, but it's down near the situation room down below. normal people, just average people, can't get in there with entry to northwest gate. >> let me bring you up-to-date with the reporting i have. what we have learned is there are two west wing entrances. you know that, i know that. are our audience. now the investigation has

progressed. the west executive entrance, which as you noted, is closer to the situation room and closer to the facilities for food and so forth, it also next to west executive drive. that's where the vice president vehicle is parked. however, it's a high-traffic area but by that i mean you do have people who work here in all kinds of jobs but not just clinical jobs but the military facilities, people who work for the operations of the white house. they do have the tours that go through their. if they are among the private tours with staffers as a sponsored member. very high-traffic. the fact that it's close to the situation room is notable. we had earlier been told that it's one level above and in the lobby area in the west wing closer to where the oval office is but this is download together important news is we

have been told investigation could take a couple of weeks for their revising that timeline. they say by monday, perhaps even earlier, they anticipate having reviewed all the important material they need to review. dna and fingerprinting testing has been going on. i told additional testing is happening today. that anything is that multiple officials are cautioning that it's unlikely, certainly possible, that there would be a resolution to this meeting, forensic evidence found that can identify an individual. scanning the video, doing the testing. they are preparing us for a result that will be no conclusive evidence found. that is still subject to change as the work continues but that should give people a sense of where this is. they are looking at what is available. they say it's a very small bag, limited ability to test it, because tests are done, whether dna or fingerprinting or other scientific type processes in the lab come at you further

degrade that sample, making it harder to get information. there scanning the videos. this was found in a copy of the lobby area of that pathway in. as you know, often security cameras and so forth are getting the big wide areas. an official sydney cameron would have had to been trained in on the cubbies and be able to see some right angles an individual dropping that packet. expectations are being lowered about an eventual conclusion here that would lead to an identity and even the potential for prosecution and a misdemeanor level for the amount of drug we are talking about. at the same time, this is unusual, to say the least. officials say they don't have any record of an illicit drug like this wound in the west wing or the white house before. it's truly rare. it has gotten a lot of interest in the public. again, the headline really is very well traveled area. we know a different location than what we have been saying for the timeline for the investigation

narrowing. :quick question if you have a second. if you come down from what i used to call the old executive august's office building, down those big steps, and cutting across to the white house for a meeting do you come in and normally i go up the steps to get to the rest of the west wing? all of this people from all of those other officers that would go through.'s back yes but they would go through that entrance. the ceremonial entrance where the marine stands is one level up. integrating of the landscape here, it's not a basement level, per se, but the west executive entrance. and the formal west wing lobby, which has cubbies as well and has some similar features, is closer to the oval office. :thanks so much, kelly ohdonnel. spent a biden administration is appealing a federal judge ruling on july 4th that severely limits the contact with social media companies because of the major national

security issue for many people with whom i have spoken as well as a health issue, public health issue. injunction is in response to a lawsuit by two republican attorneys general who argue the biden administration went too far in encouraging companies to moderate misinformation about covid vaccines. joining us is the president of the brandon center for justice. he has also worked in the west wing in the clinton administration. michael, from conversations i've had with national security officials this is a major issue for them in terms of election security. they are not under this ruling, this injunction, must the appeal is successful. and it will go to the higher court, presumably. they cannot notify people if they have a known instance of election interference. think about notifying our own contributor, andrew weissman, he was notifying people overseas that social media was

endangering the lives of people, of government officials overseas. >> it's an extraordinarily broad , even radical, ruling in many ways made by one trial judge before a trial and before there was even discovery in the case. listening to two very conservative republican attorneys general, basically, putting into the lot the conspiracy theory idea that somehow the government has been censoring social media and keeping conservative voices off practices densely very significant threat to the ability to stop election interference but we know that, for example, russia in 2016 made use of the social media platforms but we know there is massive potential to produce information that we know ai only takes that to the next level. what is willing says is that the state department come all

these public health doctors, entire department of public services, can't even talk to these companies. you have to protect the first amended. nobody should be ordering content off. it's a very, very far-reaching and potentially very damaging action by this one judge. :where do we stand on the request to stay the injunction? >> well, in a case like this, the government will and has rust to say let's not have this go into effect but in the meanwhile, meetings are getting canceled and lots of people are wondering what they are allowed to do under the law. this is what is called a nationwide injunction from one judge. it's being these days of use a lot by conservatives shopping for a judge to try to stop the biden administration from doing something. went from was present president there were liberal judges who made several really broad

nationwide rulings. the supreme court has never said whether these rulings are actually allowed. certainly, this led to the supreme court very quickly, because the impact that was so significant. again, if there is a serious allegation of a violation of the law were a violation of the first amendment, that's what the legal process is for. what this does is freeze everybody and declare things, in effect, illegal before the evidence is even out. that's why i think it reads more conspiracy theory than of fact. one example you are probably familiar with, one of the charges it makes is that dr. fauci came on your show to say that hydroxychloroquine was not an effective tool against covid and that somehow was deemed coercive of the social media platforms. i think there's a lot of stuff like that in here. 's back into. thank you very much. hitting a high note, how the power of music is saving

children's lives in a typically violent border city. that's next on "andrea mitchell reports". you are watching msnbc.

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getting sick lessons 15 hours a week on donated instruments. playing sounds like the impossible dream for teaching them life lessons about dreams they can achieve through teamwork and discipline. back ♪ ♪ expect the hospital playing the cello helped him overcome the grief when his father died from covid. >> it was like a winter all my sadness, anger, everything. my last took place to me. he listens to me every time that i play a song. >> for many of these kids music has provided a sanctuary.:while i'm playing i kind of forget everything and i'm in my own world. i can express and forget about all. it's like my safe place.:

the program, the brainchild of josi garcia, started in 2008 when war is was too overtaken by drugs and street gangs but then known as the murder capital of the world. had 500 students were as when they lost government funding and all but shut down. now struggling to rebuild with private funds, bringing music back to the kids. expect the gangs start with drugs, drinking, and even getting killed. i think the most important thing this program is that we're saving lives, music saves lives. >> music is helping break down the barriers between many of the children here and the children of el paso and the rest of the world. ♪♪ with music as the universal language with passion you can hear. >> it's truly amazing because here in the theaters, we see people that come from el paso, from chihuahua, it's truly amazing being able to share culture musically on a stage like this. >> reporter: the orchestra has traveled to tucson, arizona, and washington, d.c. >> for me it's part of my life now. i can't imagine my life without

it. >> reporter: reaching across borders, making their dreams possible. ♪♪ >> and when the program lost all federal money from mexico's government during the pandemic, the conductor helped spot support his family by opening a hamburger stand outside their home, something he still does as they try to keep the music program going in a place where he is making a huge difference. and our thanks to all of the people there. pence defense, meanwhile in iowa, a voter grilling the former vice president over his role on january 6th. the candidate's reaction. that's next on "angela mitchell reports" only on msnbc. reports" only on msnbc needs. she picks her perks and saves on every one. make your move to myplan. act now and get it for $25 when you bring your phones.

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in sioux city, iowa, yesterday, former vice president mike pence defended his actions

on january 6th after being confronted by a voter. >> if it wasn't for your vote, we would not have joe biden in the white house. that was a constitutional right that you had to send those votes back to the states. >> the states conduct our elections. you never want to let washington, d.c., run elections. constitution affords no authority for the vice president or anyone else to reject votes or return votes to the states. never been done before, should never be done in the future. i'm sorry, ma'am, but that's actually what the constitution says. president trump is wrong about my authority that day, and he's still wrong. >> joining me now are former democratic senator heidi heitkamp from north dakota, and now president of the university of chicago institute of politics, and former republican congressman from florida, david jolly. so david jolly, voters confronting candidates is always fascinating to watch. remember the john mccain moment.

mike pence was very firm about that. how is that answer going to help or hurt him in iowa? >> well, in today's republican party it probably doesn't hurt donald trump because what that actually tells you is the strength of donald trump's narrative and how the big lie has become dogma and conviction within the republican party. donald trump polling around 56%, mike pence around 6%. mike pence is going to stay on his conviction that he did the right thing. voters within the party remarkably, though, think that the big lie is true and that donald trump is right. >> and could that hurt mike pence? he's putting all of his eggs in the iowa basket. >> it certainly is. mike pence like other republican candidates is waiting for donald trump to wound himself. somehow the indictments or other factors bring donald trump down and mike pence is poised overtake him. we've yet to see that moment. >> and senator heitkamp, let's talk also about the money issue,

trump and his super pac are have now announced $35 million, some of which is going towards legal defense for both him and walt nauta we understand, but that's still a big haul. just the other day, $3 million for robert f. kennedy junior in just three days. there's a lot of money floating around. we see the president campaigning and raising money vigorously. what do you hear from the biden camp as to how they're doing? >> i mean, the real trick here is these small dollar donors who will continue to give to the former president repeatedly and make sure that he can stay in this race. it's interesting because during the fourth of july, every other candidate was out making their case. not donald trump. donald trump doesn't need to do that, but he does need to raise money, and how much of that is going to go for legal defense as opposed to any kind of political advertising remains to be seen. but you know, he's still very, very formidable.

on mike pence, guess what, mike pence took the vote. he has no other choice but to defend it, and i think congressman is absolutely right. it just shows how the big lie has become truth and dogma within the republican party. and if that's true with the majority of iowans, i don't think mike pence has a chance. >> and earlier i was talking to david bergen of course from your state, doug bergen, rather, the candidate for president now, the governor, and he defended his abortion law, the law he supported, which is a six-week ban, no exceptions. no exceptions i should say for rape or incest. >> i will tell you this, the republican party is caught in between a rock and a hard place. they know that being absolutely at a six-week ban is way too extreme for most americans, but they have used right to life movement over many, many cycles

to build the modern republican party, and that movement expects a very, very tough restrictions. now there's talk about trying to become republican party with a 15-week ban. it's not going to work because you're going to lose that portion of your base that has become single party voters. they're abortion voters, and they expect that protection will be afforded at conception. interestingly, andrea, this is where mike pence is, and it might win him some votes in iowa. >> and to david jolly, just very briefly the abortion issue, is that the best issue that the democrats have going for them right now in the general? >> it certainly provides the sharpest contrast that the republican party gave you a supreme court, the american voter a supreme court that rolled back protections that they have had for 50 years, and should they increase their power and leverage in washington, you could expect a federal ban reflecting as the senator said

either a 15-week ban or more restrictive. that is a contrast for voters. elections are decided by contrast, it's a good one for democrats to take in the next -- >> that's all we have time for today, to be continued. follow us online on facebook and twitter @mitchellreports. yasmin vossoughian starts right now. ♪♪ hey, everybody, good afternoon to you. i'm yasmin vossoughian in for chris jansing here at msnbc headquarters in new york city. another piece of the puzzle, authorities unsealed additional portions of the affidavit used to get permission to search donald trump's florida home last summer. and part of that newly disclosed evidence is this surveillance footage with walt nauta, the co-defendant in the classified documents case moving boxes just as he appeared in court today for his arraignment pleading not guilty. so what does this reveal a