washington. >> some black girl magic to take us off the air tonight. thanks so much, yamiche, for that. and on that note -- i wish you a good night. i am symone sanders-townsend in for stephanie ruhle. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> we start this evening with this -- get caught in a hot mess, call the don bono law. that is an ad for the legal services of the new florida lawyer who is representing former president trump's alleged coconspirator nauta in the mar-a-lago documents case. and just from a layman's perspective here, yes, it sure seems like mr. nauta is caught in a hot mess. today in miami, mr. nauta finally pleaded not guilty to the charges that he schemed

with trump to hide classified documents at trump's florida beach glove and then attempted to cover it all up. for weeks now, mr. nauta has been delaying this arraignment, claiming that he's had trouble finding local florida representation. and today we'll, we learned he has found that local representation, the dawn baton a law. we don't know for sure who is paying for mr. nauta's new local council but the other lawyer, the non local council that mr. nauta has had for a while who by the way was also in court today and entered mr. nauta's plea, that lawyer is an attorney named -- and we know from public disclosures that mr. woodward's law firm is being paid by former president trump political action committee save america. that matters because if the past is prolonged here, then the lawyers and who pays for the lawyers can make a world of a difference when it comes to actually getting at the truth.

>> i was in the vicinity of a conversation where i overheard the president say something to the effect of, you know, i don't care that they have weapons, they are not here to hurt me. take the effing mags away. let those people in, they can march the capitol from here. let the people in, take the effing mags away. >> remember cassidy hutchinson? she was a former top aide to trump's white house chief of staff, mark meadows. and cassidy hutchinson was one of the star witnesses for the january 6th investigation. she described how president trump not only knew the crowd gathering to hear the speech at the ellipse on january 6th had weapons, she testified that trump also did not want security to take those weapons away. she was in the west wing, she was the first hand witness to many of the key scenes leading up to, and on january 6th itself. but cassidy hutchinson was not always completely transparent with the january 6th committee. early on in the house investigation, hutchinson was represented by a lawyer named stephen passantino. and passantino's law firm was

paid by, take a guess, paid by trump's political action committee, save america. the same organization that has paid the law firm of the lawyer representing mr. nauta. and because of the extensive testimony that hutchinson gave to the house, we know exactly what kind of legal representation that trump world is playing paying for. mr. passantino, the lawyer, told hutchinson things like, we want you to focus on protecting the president. we all know you are loyal. he gave her legal advice like the less that you remember, the better. while instructing her not to look at calendars, or to look at timelines, or do anything that could jog her memory. that is the kind of legal advice the trump world was paying for. it has a distinctly pro trump bent, doesn't it? but because of how detailed mrs. hutchinson's testimony was, it ultimately, in the end, we know the exact moment that she

decided to flip. around june of last, year hutchinson believed that the house investigation might hold her in contempt of congress for not cooperating with them. this was the advice that her lawyer, again, paid for by a trump pact, this is the advice he gave at the time. there is a small element of risk in refusing to cooperate, but i think it's the best move for you. do you agree? it turns out, cassidy hutchinson did not agree. she described that moment explicitly as her breaking point, saying that it was then she knew she needed to sever her attorney client relationship with or without a new attorney. now we are re-counting all of this, because cat cassidy hutchinson and will not are strikingly similar characters. she was a trump loyalist, a top white house aides -- as of january, 2021, which is telling its own right. walt nauta is a navy veteran, former white house -- valet, who has done everything from fetch trump his diet coax to move his very important boxes around mar-a-lago.

and since trump and nauta we're co-indicted, that usual arrangement, they've been spotted together over and over again, attached at the hip. remember, both hutchinson and his legal fees were initially paid for by trump's save america pack. so far, he appears to taken -- that when that hutchinson started with. he is stonewalling investigators. for example, one of the crimes that he is charged for is lying to investigators. the indictments laid out like this. may of last year, the fbi asked nauta if they were aware of any boxes being brought to trump's home. he answered no. when asked if he had any information at all about where those boxes were kept, he responded, i wish i could tell you. i don't know, i don't i just don't know it is now very public knowledge that jack smith's office knows this is a lie. and they can prove it. they have security camera

footage of mr. nauta moving the boxes before making the statements. they've got text messages of mr. nauta's, where he talks about moving those boxes. again, before making the statements. but still today, walt nauta pleaded not guilty. i don't know if that was his own idea, or if that is the legal advice that he's getting. it was certainly a bold decision here. the very live question now is, how long will it walt nauta stick with that decision? will he make it all the way to a trial with the lawyer paid for by donald trump? joining us now to discuss is the former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan, msnbc legal analyst barbara mcquade, as well as david aaron former federal prosecutor and intelligence attorney with the u.s. department of justice. thank you both for being here. barb, i have a good set of theories about why walt nauta might be inclined to flip on

trump, but -- entertain the idea for a moment that he doesn't flip on trump. what are the incentives to staying in the good graces of trump world at this point? >> pleading guilty is a very personal decision. and sometimes it takes people up until the very end to be convinced that their guilt could be proved. i imagine when you are in a position like walt nauta's and you are working for donald trump perhaps, there is a motivation of loyalty. perhaps there is a thought that ultimately, any prison time would be a small portion of the rest of your life, and the rest of your life you could instead be rewarded by donald trump. there might be financial reasons, for reasons, there might be loyalty reasons. i don't think it's over. he can cooperate up until the time of the case goes to trial. i do think that he is probably blown his best chance, which would've been a pre-indictment plea if he is to plead guilty.

i think he would have to plead guilty as charged. and then he would hopefully see from the judge, exchange for the copper cooperation. once we've got into this point, i don't think the government needs his cooperation to secure the conviction of donald trump. >> dave, does it surprise you the walt nauta, his moving of the boxes is part of the affidavit for the search warrant. he has been kind of at the ground zero of this criminal indictment since day one. does it surprise you that he is pleading not guilty here? >> it doesn't surprise me at all. most defendants plead not guilty at their arraignment, and as barb said, negotiations can proceed from there. i do think that in this case, as the days have gone by, the usefulness to the potential, as a potential cooperator, is probably declining steadily. i think if he's going to make that decision to cooperate, he's about a year late. >> barb, what do you think of the peril that he faces legally speaking, given the fact that he's the only other person named in the first, at least initial criminal indictment from the doj.

what are the potential consequences here if he is found guilty? >> the penalties can be steep. the false statement charges, penalizing up to five years in prison. it's the conspiracy to obstruct justice that is the one penalized up to 20 years in prison. the sentencing guidelines usually bring that number to something lower, and i would imagine that if i were the lawyer from walt nauta, i would argue that he should be getting a reduction in the sentences, even a little -- nevertheless, i think he's looking at years in prison. there is still that incentive to plead guilty, in an effort to reduce that number. >> years in prison is not nothing. what is the legal representation he has? what's the new local council mister don? she's not a formal federal prosecutor. do you think that that has any effect on her inclination to strike a deal with the government if that is even in the cards in the future? >> i don't think so.

i think there are a lot of excellent defense attorneys that have been public defenders, who have not been prosecutors. several of them have cleaned my clock in the past. i think like any defense attorneys, you will assess the case against her client, she will see what those options are. see what the most advantageous way forward is, and advise her client. again, these decisions, at the end of the day, she can get the advice -- ultimately, her client has to decide what the best way forward is. >> i'm not meaning to suggest anything other than a capable lawyer. but i just mean dave, in terms of her ability and in the negotiations between former federal prosecutors and current federal prosecutors, at least colloquially, anecdotally speaking, seems to be more of a performer exercise then with whatever necessarily be with anybody who hadn't had that experience.

is there any validity to that? >> there is certainly a common language that former prosecutor and current prosecutor will have. in my experience, those relationships, they're really much more on a case by case basis, and you might be up against a former prosecutor who is going to yell at you all day, say that he knows how to do your job better than you do. that's not would be a good relationship. i have had excellent relationships with the defense attorneys who would never think of prosecuting somebody. so, you know, she spent a lot of time as a public defender dealing with prosecutors. i think she probably knows how to engage. also it's also important to remember that she's not alone here. she has at least one team member now, the team will grow. there will be plenty of opportunity for the personalities to work themselves out. >> barb, just to be clear, if there's any evidence that walt nauta council has not had walt nauta's best interest as a central concern, that could be caused to invest in the case. he wants to have adequate legal counsel of this, is that

correct? >> it is permissible for somebody else to pay your legal fees, but the duty of loyalty for a lawyer is to the client. it's an ethical duty that every lawyer has. regardless of who's paying the bills, you're supposed to act in the best interest of a client at all times. now, in the cassidy hutchinson, casey said earlier, you see how those incentives can cause people to do things differently than perhaps the ethics rules would suggest. for prosecutors, they are very reluctant to get in between a lawyer and her client, to do anything to disrupt that relationship. but if they were to get wind that something was amiss, what they could do is file a motion with the judge, for the judge to acquire exactly -- directly with that client as to whether they were satisfied with the representation. it would take a lot before that could happen, and that lawyers and prosecutors would put themselves in that situation.

>> just based on what we know from cassidy hutchinson, the advice she was giving seemed plainly not in her best interest, or in the interest of getting to the truth, but that's another matter. and yet there is no repercussions there, it seems like it's a really high bar to prove that your legal counsel was not acting in your best interest, but instead potentially the interests of the person paying the bills. in this case, donald trump. >> it's a difficult thing to decide to come between an attorney and client. and miss hutchinson, mr. nauta or our in very different positions. one is a witness before a congressional committee, another is now a defendant. they're in different postures. there was no judge to come between the witness, miss hutchinson, and the committee. she was really making that decision on her own. in a way, it's a good thing

from mr. nauta hear, there's a judge potentially to a whatever it needs to be made if it comes to that. >> that would be aileen cannon. we will see how this all plays out. barbara mcquade, david aaron, thank you both for joining us tonight. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> still ahead here tonight, calling 9/11 a hoax, it's not enough to get you kicked out of the far-right house freedom caucus, but calling your fellow member names, that is. that's next as ron desantis's campaign appears to falter, his state of florida is dealing with malaria, as in malaria. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ more shopping? you should watch your spending honey. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that. let me put a reminder on my phone. save $700 dollars.

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>> do you remember this moment? this was the house floor fight captured by c-span's cameras between former allies and current congresswoman marjorie taylor greene and lauren boebert. this happened just about two weeks ago. reporters claimed that during the dispute, the congresswoman called her colleague a word -- that rhymes with kits. marjorie taylor greene later called that reporting, impressively correct. it turns out that that incident was more than just a momentary feud. state political reports of the house freedom caucus, the far-right wing of the republican conference, has voted to kick out congresswoman

marjorie taylor greene. one member told politico that tensions had been brewing over the decision to side with house republican leadership, and against the far-right members on issues like the debt ceiling. the member called the incident with boebert the straw that broke the camel's back. it's the first time that the freedom caucus has ever booted a member from its ranks. the first time the camel has bucked, if you will. they've had plenty of other opportunities. the caucus previously unaired allowed members marjorie taylor greene and paul gosar remained members in good standing. despite both of them attending a conference hosted by non known white supremacist nick fuentes. marjorie taylor greene hasn't since moderated herself from any meaningful way, after, all the fight between her and congresswoman boebert was over which one of them would get to bring articles of impeachment against president biden. still, the woman who won one's

once suggested the 9/11 was a hoax, and blamed california wildfires on jewish space lasers, that win is now considered insufficiently radical in the eyes of house conservatives, which tells you everything you need to know about the chaos that speaker of the house kevin mccarthy is currently swimming in. politico reports this week that house republicans are now ramping up their fight against the fbi and the department of justice, including a renewed push to defund federal law enforcement. a move that not every republican is on board with. again, according to politico, in a recent closed-door meeting, conservative republican congressman ken buck of colorado privately urged his colleagues to be careful about how they talk about justice department funding, adding that i am not in favor of cutting doj. at the same time, some conservatives are pushing to bring articles of impeachment against attorney general merrick garland in what would be the first impeachment of a cabinet official in nearly 150 years. attorney general garland decided to testify before the house committee later this summer.

joining us now is brandon buck, former aide to house speaker's paul ryan and john boehner. brandon, there was a time in american politics where people let bygones be bygones. but it doesn't seem to be the case when it comes to what happened during the debt ceiling fight. i personally am surprised that the house freedom caucus is still so incensed over that deal. usually, is it not usually that once the speaker gets it done, everyone can move on? that doesn't seem to have happened here. >> i think it might have moved on, but they don't forget. and i think that's what kevin mccarthy's problem is here. some people gave him a pass, but even the ones who you might have been surprised that supported him of kind of said, well, we are going to look down to the appropriations, the actual spending of money later this year. and if we don't end up cutting spending much below this deal, then we're going to have a real problem. that's what marjorie taylor greene's problem is here. it's not so much that she's fighting with her colleagues, is that she's become an ally of

the speaker. she and folks at home could be excused for thinking that the freedom caucus exists primarily to advance conservative ideas. they are conservative, to be sure, but their bigger priority is screwing within with leadership. i've seen that plenty of times. and marjorie taylor greene has become not just an ally, but a shield from a lot of conservative criticism of the speaker. i think it probably in the view of the freedom caucus, she's become a pawn of the speaker. and at times, it's not just supporting kevin mccarthy for speaker, which she did, it's defending things like the debt limit deal. she has, at times, looked like a serious one which i think says more about the freedom caucus than it does about her. she's still a conspiracy theorist. it tells you the kind of challenge but kevin mccarthy is facing. they saw what happened, and they haven't forgotten. they're just waiting until the next opportunity to strike. >> and it bears mentioning that they could've scuttled the deal. they could've scuttled the debt

ceiling deal if they wanted to. could they not have? they had enough votes to make kevin mccarthy's life very complicated, and they didn't. now they are angry. and in some bizarre twilight zone version of congress, marjorie taylor greene was the adult in the room, and kevin mccarthy has now lost. to your point, how critical is she, slash was she in those fights they had to get the far right wing members of the conference on board? how much of the weapon, for lack of a better term, have they lost in, that she's been booted from the house freedom caucus? >> she'll be useful to him. what happened in the debt limit deal was that she helped kevin mccarthy make all of those people are relevant. the bill passed with a huge majority. they were really able to ignore the freedom caucus, they hate being ignored. everything that's going on. they were really able to pass without worrying about that. because they did have kunce conservative cover, not from marjorie taylor, green people and jim jordan, who used to be one of our biggest headaches. he was supporting it.

in the aftermath of that, that's when you saw them lashing out. they shut down the house floor for a week, they started making those demands. now they're making kevin with mccarthy pledge that he's going to be fighting for spending cuts lower than where we are in the, deal which is not going to happen. it's really just sitting him up for the fall. it's always for the next play, always looking down the road ways in which they can trip him up. they might have gotten a little outmaneuvered on the debt limit deal, and i think they're looking for revenge the next time around. >> they are having the big appropriations fight in september they can shut down the, government -- that almost seems like a foregone conclusion. in the meantime, they're going to defund the fbi and doj? that seems, in a word, cuckoo. and yet, how much is this something that the gop now actually has to consider inside of the house? >> if you've been telling your constituents for years that the doj is not just corrupt, but it is targeting people like you regular folks out in red america, they're going to do something about it. that's where we are now. there have been so much anger

built up, so many accusations made, that when the time comes to fund the doj, people are going to demand some type of action taken. and obviously, they're talking about other things like impeachment. there might be other release valve that they can use for this. at some, point the bill is going to come do with all of the promises that you've made. oversight is typically working in that you search for facts, then you reach the conclusion. here house republicans have reached their conclusion first. the doj is corrupt, now they're searching for facts tou back it up to do that case. so far, again, it's just setting up kevin mccarthy for failure. they're not going to be able to defund the doj. with all of, this if you shut it down, you do like crazy. >> and i would also say, what does it do? the republican party wraps itself in the mantle of being the party of law and order. they will be the party, potentially, that seeks to cut funding for the department of justice and the federal bureau investigations, and rallying around a candidate that might have multiple criminal, federal criminal indictments against him.

i mean the implication, is there not a price to pay for that among conservatives out in the country, swing voters in the country, independents in america? >> it's a four seat majority. five seat majority. there have been moderates pushing back, what are we doing? this is crazy stuff. it's not helping me to get reelected. that's not the culture of the house republican conference. the culture is to worry about feeding the base all the time. and they don't care about their swing district. people that put them into the majority. they often get overruled. i'm sure they'll get run over here. the big question will be whether four or five of these moderates stand up and say, i'm not voting for this. they usually don't fight back, but this could be an opportunity where they say that enough is enough. >> how many times can we slip on a banana peel before the joke is on us? i don't know. and yet, kevin mccarthy is still the speaker. brandon buck, former aide to speaker paul ryan, thanks for joining us tonight. good to see. >> thanks. >> still ahead here this evening, florida reports two

new cases of malaria today. cases that people got in florida. governor ron desantis has so politicized public health that his government cannot hire anybody for top jobs to manage public health. and as the right-wing goes nuts over a baggy of cocaine found at the white house, we'll get into the real history of drugs at the white house. coming up -- stay with us. keeps you dry? all of the things that you're looking for in a pad, that is always discreet. look at how it absorbs all of the liquid. and locking it right on in! you feel no wetness. - oh my gosh! - totally absorbed! i got to get some always discreet! my a1c was up here; now, it's down with rybelsus®. - oh my gosh! - totahis a1c?rbed! it's down with rybelsus®. my doctor told me rybelsus® lowered a1c better than a leading branded pill and that people taking rybelsus® lost more weight. i got to my a1c goal and lost some weight too.

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issued a mosquito alert after confirming four cases of malaria and sarasota county. >> concerns are growing as this marked the first time we are seeing local transmission in the u.s. in two decades. >> those cases discovered in sarasota and madison counties there is concern from self health officials that it could spread. >> malaria, a disease trans transmitted by mosquitoes, something that the united states eliminated in 1951. it is back at least in the state of florida. the cluster of cases in florida plus one case in texas are the first instances of locally transmitted malaria diagnosed in this country in 20 years. now, from time to time, you might hear about someone diagnosed with malaria in the u.s. after they caught it overseas. but it seems like this cluster originated in sarasota, florida. it came from there. and it's spreading. today alone two more cases were reported in sarasota racing florida's total case count to six. last week, the cdc issued a health advisory, warning about these cases, while issuing the

public that overall, the risk of contracting malaria in the u.s. remains low for most of the country. but florida epidemiologists are concerned because, well, florida is not the rest of the country, which is probably evident by now. but anyway, for starters, the person at the helm of florida's department of health's doctor joseph latypov. and you may remember him. he's the doctor governor ron desantis appointed as florida's surgeon general in september of 2021 right in the middle of the covid-19 pandemic. after doctor ladapo openly and incorrectly questioned the effectiveness of covid vaccines, after governor desantis and bounced his appointment, doctor ladapo announced there is nothing special about vaccines compared to any other measure. it has been treated almost like a religion. and that is just senseless. here before the that, dr. ladapo joined a controversial group of doctors as they gathered outside the supreme court to tell the american

public they definitely did not need social distancing or masks to stay safe. most recently, doctor ladapo was accused of personally altering data and that report about health risks for young men associated with the covid-19 vaccines. now, the anti-vax fearmongering here, it may be good politics for desantis and his team. but it's not exactly attracting the stars of the public health world to the state of florida. nbc news is exclusively reporting today that two of the top public health officials in the desantis administration's, the ones responsible for tracking and preventing the spread of transmittable diseases like malaria, they left their positions in recent months. and those positions remain vacant. nbc reports that the open positions include the head of the florida health department bureau of epidemiology, which oversees many of the state's core public health functions. a second keep, posted miss writer of the bureau surveillance division has been

vacant since march. we don't yet know why these officials left their positions but some experts believe that florida is having a hard time replacing them, because governor desantis and dr. ladapo have so politicized public health. meanwhile, the governor himself is spending very little time in florida these days. instead, he's been campaigning all over the country, including this past fourth of july weekend, when governor desantis was literally caught in the rain, as he marched in an independent state operate in new hampshire, that is in new hampshire, new hampshire, not new hampshire, florida, where there isn't currently a resurgence of malaria, at least as far as we know. desantis is trailing trump in national polls by roughly 30 percentage points. the gap that has widened significantly since desantis began actually meeting voters. back in desantis's camp, the talking points is that both would begin lead his way later on once he's done touring the country, at least that's what they told the times.

bryan griffin, as spokesman for the desantis campaign, said it is campaign is a marathon not a sprint. we will be victorious. now, okay, a lot can happen with enough time, including, by the way, the reemergence of malaria in florida after three decades. but desantis nomination at this point, it seems like kind of a long shot, at least right now. we will have more on that, i had, with a great clear mccaskill. caskill. with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup

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in injecting gender ideology into the mainstream where he was having men compete against women in this beauty pageants. i think that's totally fair game. >> as florida governor ron desantis, attempting to defend what we will generously call a bizarre ad shared by his campaign this week. the video, released on the last day of pride month, tries to paint donald trump as a woke ally of the lgbtq community. it also hypes ron desantis's efforts to restrict lgbtq rights. in between supercuts of shirtless men in the serial killer from american psycho. all of it set to a club soundtrack. the ad has not helped governor desantis. even log cabin republicans accused him of venturing into homophobic territory. it has given rise to a number of questions about the desantis campaign and its strategy, namely, what is it. because it is starting to seem

like the more people hear from governor ron desantis, the less they like him. republican primary polling averages show desantis trailing trump by more than 30%, a gap that has only widened as voters continues to meet desantis on the campaign trail. joining us now is claire mckascill, former democratic senator of missouri. thanks for joining. there's nobody i'd rather hear from in terms of assessing that ad that was shared by the desantis campaign. what do you make of it? and what does it tell you about what the campaign thinks of republican primary voters? >> well, the interesting thing here is, he has to have, and his team has to have, some

theory by which he takes votes from donald trump and he thinks the way to do that is to out-trump trump, go even further, spew more hate and bigoted language. and i've got to tell you, the biggest problem that desantis has is that, in order to be a con man, you have to have showmanship. now, we all know that donald trump is a con man. he is a huckster. he is somebody who thinks it's all about self promotion and marketing, and nothing about substance or policy. ron desantis is no showman. he doesn't have the personality to be a showman. he is awkward. frankly, he has the personality of kind of a dead frog. it is really not a guy that is going to light up a room or light up a hall or light up a rally with his showmanship. so how does he get those away from trump? i've got news for him. he's not. the people that are with trump now are not going anywhere.

they are certainly not going to abandon him for somebody who is just a wannabe of donald trump. and here's -- go ahead, alex. >> i was just going to say, i think, first of all, apologies to dead frogs everywhere, and secondly, it seems like what desantis cannot accomplish in terms of charm or wit or comedy or anything approaching warmth, he tries to make up with cruelty and meanness. it's like he's over compensating for a lack of personality and personalable skills by just trying to be the meanest, most aggressive, shirtless warrior out there. not that he's shirtless, but the people in his ads are shirtless. to me that seems like a bizarre calculation, because it does miss something central to trump, which is as abhorrent as a lot of trump's policies may be, and that he's a husker, he's also a very talented and magnetic campaigner. and what desantis seems to have

shortchange that part of the trump strategy, which is letting trump be trump may be repulsive to many people, but he also has a certain amount of basic magnetism for the people that love donald trump. >> yeah, and i think desantis has looked in the mirror and looked around a very close circle of people, and what he sees reflected is that he is wonderful, that he won florida by a big margin, therefore he's the guy. and he's not the guy. and the interesting thing here, alex, is that the hard thing about running for president is you have got to appeal to your base in a primary season in order to gain the nomination. but you have to do it in a way where you do not alienate independent voters or voters of the other party that maybe are not comfortable with their nominee. ron desantis is digging a hole he can't get out of. because with every time he spews hate, every time he uses

the heavy hand of government to take freedoms away from the lgbtq community or accuses public school teachers of being groomers and pedophiles, he is losing votes that are independents and republicans who don't like trump. so there's no strategy here for victory, for him to ever be president of the united states. >> if you -- i'm starting to smell a whiff of a jeb bush around ron desantis's campaign, which is, someone who is presumed front runner doesn't end up being a front runner at all, despite all the attention and resources. but i do wonder, because trump is in many way unpalatable, because there is a sense, though yet unproven, the republicans would be willing to switch coffees do you think donors hang with desantis longer than they normally would in a traditional campaign cycle with someone who isn't necessarily as filled with kryptonite as trump appears to

be? >> well, i think you've hit on a really important point. the jury is out whether ron desantis can raise the kind of money he's gonna need to raise. will he get the grassroots donations that in fact is donald trump's lifeline? trump has never really had the big donors coming in guns blazing for him. but ron desantis has had some big donors, but the question is are they going to stick with him as he continues to fumble everything he tries to do in this campaign? and what are these debates going to look like? if trump doesn't debate, chris christie is going to tear desantis up. if trump does debate, both chris christie and trump are going to tear desantis up. and guess who else is going to tear him up? he's number two. number three, four, five, six, seven, and eight are going to tear him up because they need to try to get up ahead of desantis to be the next alternative to donald trump. so he is in a terrible position

right now both in terms of his ability to raise money and, frankly, the fact that he's going to be a target of everybody running for president except him. >> if you are chris christie or nikki haley or tim scott, what is your, i mean -- where do you go right now, claire, seeing the weakness of ron desantis? >> i think if they're smart they're going to talk about the issues that people care about. and they're also going to talk about the you should never run fot president on a platform that is foundational with hate, that is foundational with dividing people. alex, everybody in america someone they love that is gay or lesbian. this is not 30, 40 years ago when people were not, so many people were afraid to come out and be honest with the world about the sexuality. not anymore. and it is mainstream now, and this country is not going back. i don't care what the supreme court says, i don't care what

clarence thomas says, i sure as hell don't care what ron desantis says. this is not going to work. and i actually think that if the other candidates talk about uniting people around the traditional values of the republican party, that's their best shot. it may not be a good one, because trump has got them all under a spell. >> hot tip, don't run on hate. straight from someone who knows politics. claire mccaskill, always a delight to see you. thank you for your time tonight. >> thanks, alex. >> we have one more story for you tonight. ♪ ♪ ♪ the right-wing conspiracy machine has fired up over a bag of cocaine found at the white house last weekend, but that is not the only coke to find itself at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. we are going to get into a brief history of presidential drugs, right after the break. ♪ ♪ ♪

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absolute field day after a bag of white powder which a lab test confirmed was cocaine was found in the white house on sunday. there is absolutely no evidence to suggest the president joe biden or his son hunter had anything to do with this. the president and his family were at camp david over the holiday weekend when a secret service official says officers discovered the suspicious powder during a routine patrol of white house premises. white house officials say that the bag of powder was found in a highly trafficked area.

vips go through there but so do escorted visitors and tourists as well as staff, military, and operations employees. and while officials have low expectations but they can identify who left this cocaine, investigators expect wrap up their forensic work by monday. but if you did not know it already, there is a fascinating and storied history of drugs and other illicit substances found in or near the seat of power, right here in the u.s., and i have exactly the perfect person to talk about this with. joining us with is lindsey travonski, provincial presidential historian. lindsey, thank you for making the time. this is not the first time that cocaine may have been found in the white house. can you talk a bit about the era of franklin delano roosevelt and what was happening then? >> absolutely. so cocaine used to be used in a

number of medications because it had has the effect of restricting blood vessels so for example franklin delano roosevelt had a lot of sinus problems in some reports suggest that one of the medicines doctors recommended was a diluted cocaine substance that would be swabbed on the inside of his each of his nostrils to help increase oxygen flow and reduce any blockages that he may or may not have had. >> what about, i mean, back in the day opium and cocaine were used in a lot of pharmacies for lack of a better word. they reasoned basis for a lot of bison. can you talk a bit more about that what was happening in the 18th and 19th centuries? >> absolutely. as you said, opium was a common ingredient in a lot of different medications. and one of the most frequent uses was called ladnum. this was something regularly prescribed for pain medication for pain tolerance of someone was ill or had trouble sleeping. so for example we know that two first ladies in the 19th century died while their husbands were in the white house, letitia tyler and

carolyn harrison. we don't know what they were prescribed but ladnum was so common at the time that's hard to imagine that was one of the things that suggested. similarly, one of my favorite colorful stories occurred in 1805, when one of the first and only impeachment proceedings of a supreme court justice took place. john randolph was in charge of the prosecution of that case. he had such bad stomach issues that his doctor prescribed him opium laced wine. and he was in so much pain that he basically was taking a sip of this concoction in between every single sentence. and by the end of the trial he could barely stand and was slurring his words because he had taken so much of this, what they thought of then, as medication. so it just goes to show how much our understanding of these things have changed. >> we still have the impeachment proceedings but we don't have the opium laced wine. was it a big deal that he was taking opium laced wine at the time? or was it just, oh there he goes again with the opium laced

wine? >> it wasn't such a big deal that he was taking the wine. rather the quantity is what people noted in the effect on him, because either he hadn't eaten much or he hadn't been sleeping well, and so everyone was noticing that he was not his best self on this particular day in the senate chambers. >> it's not so much the opium in your wine, it's just how much of it you are drinking. okay. i'm very glad we had this history lesson. lindsay chervinsky, thank you for your time and wisdom tonight. we appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. >> that is our show for this evening. we'll see you again tomorrow. and now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> alex, opium-laced wine is the last word. i am going home now. there is nothing left to say. [laughter] >> listen, we need it for the next impeachment proceeding, right? i mean, apparently that's what got america through it the last time. >> alex, you will deal with your own needs, and in that

situation, water, here it is, will do it for me. that will get me through it, i'm sure. >> you are a stronger man, lawrence. >> oh, no, no. opium-laced wine. i can't follow that, alex. i'm stuck here. [laughter] >> you certainly can and you will. >> thank you, alex. >> have a great show. >> thank you. >> yes, your honor. those are the only three words spoken by donald trump's codefendant walt nauta in miami today in an arraignment hearing that lasted only five minutes. nauta replied, yes, your honor, when judge edwin torres asked him if he had read the charges against him and consulted with an attorney. the delay in walt nauta's arraignment occurred because washington-based attorney stanley woodward took three weeks to find a local florida lawyer who would join the defense team as required by florida rules. walt nauta's local florida