the 7th. exactly six months ago. a position he was elected to after a marathon session that involved 15 rounds of voting over four days. >> let's listen in, it looks like we are done with the voting. [applause] >> mccarthy's got the votes to win. >> smiling ear to ear, he got the bottom line he was looking for. >> it was a triumphant moment for mccarthy, who many new had one wanted, the draw for some time. but it was also a public embarrassment. the whole episode exposed the rift between the different factions of thre conference and the easy -- on these alliance among them. at one point a fight almost broke out on the house floor, but perhaps the most telling moment came as mccarthy made his way out of the capital, at around two a.m., after finally taking his oath of office during -- to talk to reporters to give a special thanks to a special someone.

>> i do want to especially thank president trump. i don't think anybody should doubt his influence. he was with me from the beginning. somebody wrote that out when he was there, and he was all in. >> given mccarthy maybe the speaker, but this is donald trump south. it's built on the back of trump republican acolytes whose job depends on the support of trump's own base. the dynamics that were on display during the four-day speakership battle have continued to play out in six months since. chaos caucus republicans, many of whom are trump loyalists, and some of whom participated in the attempt to deny mccarthy the speakership, brought the entire country to the brink of economic default just a few weeks ago. and encouraged by trump to stonewall efforts to reach a deal on the debt limit. but mccarthy's speakership so far will likely be remembered for republicans many efforts to avenge donald trump to take action against his critics, and to rewrite the narrative of his first presidential term in order to pave the way for his

reelection. in january, republicans quickly approved the so-called subcommittee on the weaponization of the federal government, chaired by jim jordan and seemingly created to legitimize trump's many grievances. days after that, mccarthy block democratic congressman adam schiff, and eric swalwell, from being appointed to the important and powerful intelligence committee. both men had served as impeachment managers and earned the former presidents i are. since then, schiff has been censured by house republicans. house republicans have also spent time calling for the impeachment of the attorney general, merrick garland's, and the homeland security secretary, alejandro mayorkas. attempts to introduce articles of impeachment against president biden, even incited an argument on the house floor between republican congresswoman lauren boebert and marjorie taylor greene, which led to greene being ousted from the right-wing republican freedom caucus. there's even an official attempt to expunge trump's two impeachments, an effort that has received the approval of kevin mccarthy, who told reporters quote, i think it's

appropriate. you should expunge it, because it never should have gone through. end quote. this is donald trump's house, and kevin mccarthy is living in that rent free. but trump's rhetoric against federal law enforcement agencies on the executive branch is having a real effect on the representatives of washington. it's pushed many republican presidential candidates further to the right. it's forced them to make a vow to clean house, if they get elected. >> i agency all work with, all work with all of them, but the ones we need to put some serious time into, department of justice, our intelligence agencies, and our state department. those have to be cleaned out. [applause] that's going to take more than just the top that's going to take senior management up, and making sure you have to make examples of people. >> you have to make examples of people. following trump's lead, republicans have been planning the justice department is filled with political lackeys who are biased against him.

people they allege, like the fbi director, chris wray, when the house returns to d.c. next week, wray will testify before and oversight hearing led by jim jordan and the judiciary committee and he's expected to be question about a number of things, including unverified allegations of a bribery scheme involving president biden. but it's worth remembering, chris wray was appointed by donald trump himself. in 2017, he called wray quote, an impeccably qualified individual. the tragedy of the republicans campaign against the justice department is they're chipping away at the legitimacy of the doj and the fbi and the public's faith in those organizations, and all the justice department is trying to do is hold to account the twice impeached, twice indicted republican front runner, who's risked our national security, weakend democracy, and remains under investigation. as trump continues to demean the men and women of the doj and the other members of the federal government, it's worth remembering with dubious and

now disgraced lawyers that trump recruited to help him overturn the 2020 election. just yesterday, a disciplinary panel unanimously recommended that rudy giuliani be disbarred for his role in those efforts, saying quote, his malicious and merit-less claims have done lasting damage. on wednesday, when wood was basically forced to retire amid disciplinary probes by the state bar of georgia, and sydney powell is seemingly under scrutiny by special counsel jack smith, as his investigation hones in on a chaotic oval office meeting during which trump and his allies discussed, among other things, appointing taboo how will as special counsel, powell was donald trump's lawyer, appointing powell as special counsel to investigate the baseless claims of election fraud. in many cases, claims powell herself was making. joining me now, eugene scott, senior politics reporter for axios and stuart stevens, senior adviser for the lincoln project, who was the chief strategist for mitt romney's

2012 presidential campaign. he's the author of the book, it was all a lie, how the republican party became donald trump. good morning, gentlemen, to both of you. thank you for being with us. eugene, let me start with you. today's republican party remains fractured. it is playing out in some very public ways already. kevin mccarthy has needed to walk a very fine lie, but six months in,, is he in better or worse standing than he was back in january in terms of being able to take some control of this bag of cats? >> well, that depends on which angle you look at it from. the reality is he wanted to be speaker, so he's still speaker, and he has not yet been impeached by his own caucus. [laughter] >> that's a low bar. >> it is an incredibly low bar, but the pc was hoping to enjoy, as leader of the house, he gets to enjoy and probably will not, and it's in part because of something i think a lot of people really do not understand about the gop that has been

true since trump came on the scene. ideologically, it's actually more diverse than people think. everyone is not on board the trump train. there are individuals who have backed him and supported ideas and policies of his, but the loyalty that some individuals in that party display it's not what everyone else displays, and that is going to lead constantly to conflict and disagreement and frustration when you are trying to lead this maybe not really broad group, but certainly broader group then you would have hoped to be, as a leader of a party. >> stuart, interesting, everybody is not on trump's train, but when it comes, let's go a little brother, the presidential campaign. you heard nikki haley. she's going after the justice department, that's low hanging fruit, by the way. she's going after the state department now. and she said, i can't believe she said it, you have to make examples of people. this is mussolini type talk. you have a few people in that very large field of people running for president, chris christie, asa hutchison, will

her, now a strong this thing, who are prepared to say this is all nonsense. this deep state bs is all nonsense. how about we actually govern and do things that matter to people? your opinion on this? >> look, i think the question here is, when you look at these house republicans, if a large criminal organization was running this instead of the republican party, how would they act any differently? if the mafia wasn't charged instead of the republican party, wouldn't they go after the doj? wouldn't they go after the fbi? what did they do everything they can to protect their boss? and what we're going to have in this primary is you do this in canada's out there, a couple of them, i'm not proud to say, our former clients of mine. -- they are going to present a different view, and we're going to see how the market response to that. we have a very clear idea if republicans want an alternative, because they're going to have an alternative. but i think that trump is what the republican party wants to be, which is why trump-ism and

the republican party are really the same thing now. >> eugene, what's happening in the house? there was a spat between marjorie taylor greene and lauren boebert and apparently, marjorie taylor greene got thrown out of the freedom caucus. it's kind of like prigozhin and putin. it's not one is right and one is wrong, they're just not exactly on the same side of who to impeach and who should actually bring the impeachment articles first. >> i think that's a perfect example, to individuals who i think outsiders look at and think are on the same page, but they fundamentally are. not marjorie taylor greene came in on the trump train, as a supporter of the former president, and very vocal backer of him moving forward. but very recently, especially when it came to kevin mccarthy's pursuit of house leadership, she became more aligned with him, and there is quite a few individuals in the freedom caucus who view their role as a consistent check on the gop leader, and marjorie

taylor greene does not view her rule asked that. so, whether or not she belongs in the freedom caucus has been a topic of debate for a while. we have found ourselves, or at, least getting to a place where enough individuals in that caucus have decided that she is no longer one of them. >> stuart, obviously, you -- >> go ahead. >> at the lincoln project, you were focusing on possibly some of these disaffected republicans, or republicans, as you said, are in the market who might want something different. they clearly exist. they're probably not most of the primary voters, but they clearly exist. when you look at the asa hutchison's or the chris christie's or the will herds, or even some of the others who might decide one day to carve out their own lane, is there some sense that there are enough of them to have any impact? what does success look like for you in the republican primary, that there are debates and that donald trump's on the stage with chris christie and asa hutchinson and will hurd and a couple of others, who are prepared to stand up to him? they are still nowhere close --

to where his numbers are, so what does success look like here? >> look, i think success would be if one of these candidates who is articulating a case against trump won. i don't think that's going to happen. so, then, after that, the question is, will these people support donald trump? and i think it's very important for those like christy, hutchinson, heard, who are out there making a case against donald trump. if donald trump is the nominee, or trump clone, one of the clone like desantis is the nominee, i think it's very difficult to reconcile what they're saying now about the importance of the country, if they don't support president biden. it's not enough to say i'm not going to support the nominee, you are going to have a choice here. it's a binary choice, and i think they have to step up and to a lot of us have done, who worked in the party, who are involved in the lincoln project and say, we have differences with the democratic party, but the really is only one party, a pro democracy party now. you need to support the democratic party so we can get

back to our cutting arguing about real policy. >> when you think about january 7th, right? 2021. there were lots of republicans on the right side of history that day, lots and lots of them said the right thing about -- lindsey graham talked about holding donald trump to account, kevin mccarthy talked about donald trump, mitch mcconnell talked about donald trump, and then it all just melted like a hot summer day. i think that's your point, right? take a position now, but then you've got to have that position six months from that were one year from now, depending on who the nominee is. >> you know, the essence of authoritarian movement is to seem to allow diversity, in the same we putin seems to allow diversity, but, ultimately when it counts, you have to fall in line. and that is what's happened in the republican party. it really is operated now as an off authoritarian movement instead of a wide, they first political party that represents different views. so, they all came back. i mean, it's incredible! you look at mitch mcconnell, he went out after voted not to convict trump, he gave an

impassioned speech why you should convict trump. and i think it's one of the reasons, when you look back at this period, it's going to be such a period of utter insanity for the party. there is no governing philosophy. there is no attempt to be a governing party. it's just a group of people who are attempting to gain power, so they can perpetuate power. and i think that's absolutely the definition of a syndicate, not a political party. >> guys, thanks very much. we appreciate your time this morning. eugene scott is a senior politics reporter for axios, steven -- >> is a senior adviser of the lincoln project and the author of the book, it was all. ally still ahead this hour, the conservative super majority on the supreme court has blown through decades of precedent and upheld the long held personal rights in the past two years. they're not done yet. we're going to look at the cases the court will be hearing next session and talk about why so many people worry about what is coming next. plus, today's meeting of the velshi banned book club features a widely bad novel, long boy by jonathan -- that packs a massive punch, grappling with serious topics, including fascism, sexual

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violence of the middle east. this week, israeli forces concluded today rate in the jenin refugee camp in the northern west bank. from monday through tuesday, israel carried out air strikes and sent roughly 1000 troops to the area to crack down on what they say were palestinian militants. marking the most substantial incursion into the west bank in two decades. at least 12 palestinians were killed in the bag, including several alleged militants, over 100 palestinian civilians were wounded. one israeli soldier was killed. israel's government claimed it was conducting a counterterrorism operation, but observers say whether or not that is true, the israeli government is currently deliberately intensifying an already exceedingly violent year throughout israel. and occupied palestinian territory in the west bank. the 48-hour incursion into the

refugee camp which saw many palestinian families fleeing their homes, reflects the pattern of violence that has become characteristic of the current right wing government in israel which is widely regarded as the most extreme in the country's history. the death toll in the west bank this year alone is alarmingly high according to the united nations. 112 palestinians were killed in the first five months of this year. those numbers are on track to surpass the 146 palestinians killed in all of 2022 which represented the highest toll in the past 15 years. analysts who spoke with the new york times warned that this week's incursion, quote, lacked any deeper strategy, and could even spur more violence and revenge attacks, and quote. that is exactly what followed. on tuesday, a palestinian man drove a vehicle into israeli civilians in tel aviv, injuring eight people. as the situation on the ground continues to deteriorate, under the leadership of israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu, observers warned that the region teeters on the edge of a

potential third antifa to. i'm joined by the co-director of breaking the silence. an organization of veteran soldiers who served in the israeli military since the start of the second intifada, and are routinely exposed to the reality of what it is like to enforce the occupation in the occupied west bank. it's good to see you again, thank you for being with. us i should tell our viewers, you sort of helped me through the west bank and understanding what that occupation looks like on the ground. when things like this happen in jenin, it becomes complicated for my viewers to understand, was this an effort to get rid of militants within the are really governments -- what they call terrorists? or was this something else. i think that heard from you is sometimes the line is blurred between actually rooting out people who are going to kill israeli civilians, and enforcing the occupation. >> yeah, so it's great to be, here and great to see you again,

i mean, i think we have to be clear here. the israeli government has not only the authority but the responsibility to protect its citizens. i think what we are seeing and what is unfolding in jenin and the north part of the west bank is very distorted concepts of security. and this distorted concept of security is based on the assumption that in order for the israeli citizens living in the occupied west bank, legally under international law, to live there, and to feel secure, basically palestinians have to feel insecure. so there are different ways that israel has been doing this and this is the m.o. of the israeli military for many years. many have remembered the operations during the second intifada. but also, in times that are not a prizes or as violent as the

second antifa, to the azores of the army routinely enters city centers and refugee camps. what we have seen in this last operation is an escalation. i think many have called this the gaza vacation of jenin. the beginning of the gaza vacation of jenin. referring to the gaza strip where a lot of the practices that we've seen and soldiers who have served in the gaza strip describes similar things in the latest operation, obviously in a smaller scale. but taking one area, one of the most densely populated areas, and basically shooting people out or knit making it unlivable for the people living, there that's exactly the practices we saw and gaza, airstrikes, just a month ago, the first air strike in the refugee camp, first one in 20 years. this operation, it is a very very dangerous reality that we

see unfolding, i don't think this is bringing israelis any security, additionally, to what you mentioned, another israeli was killed, another israeli socialist, killed and palestinians as well. security, this is not giving, us but definitely a promise for more and more of these operations. >> this is why i want everybody to meet you, i literally tell everyone i have this discussion with, go to the middle east, i will set you up with breaking the silence. and you can have this conversation. because the narrative, as it plays out in the night states on the ground, it's that israel needs to because secured, and that is a fact, there should be zero debate about that. a, israel needs to be secure, israel has some neighbors and leadership among those neighbors who believe that not to be true, they make threats about israel and israeli people and jews and being pushed into the sea. those two things are. real but there is this truth in the middle, and that is places

like jenin, in gaza for that matter, they are terrible places to live, often occupied, it's a refugee, camp it's occupied now for more than 55 years by people and their children. and their grandchildren, who are removed from their houses when the state of israel was formed. and they got no with -- their three generations of angry. the occupation creates a cycle of people who are angry, who then do things that threaten the safety of israelis. who then do things that threaten the safety of palestinians, it's a cycle that needs to break. >> and i think exactly on that point, i was part of that cycle. i was a paratrooper, i served exactly in those areas, that was in jenin, i was a snapshot of a sniper. part of what i did almost every night was home invasions, what we call straw windows, we use a private palestinian house as an

observation point, these are exactly the photos coming out of the janine refugee camp. and you mentioned cycles. when i was thinking about this, the entire week, week and a half, especially since we've seen this operation into need unfold. i can't stop thinking about the palestinians that i woke up in the middle of the night, that i frightened to death, handcuffed there, father used their living room as a military post, and thinking maybe one of these kids was one of the palestinians that went and attacked soldiers. this cycle that we can basically look -- most of the israeli governments, but definitely under this israeli government, they only promised they are giving us, their citizens, and palestinians under their control, is more deaf, it's more violence, and the dangerous dangerous steps this

government has taken already in interest to the occupation, moving forward with annexation, it is unfolding, this government basically backtracked on the disengagement law, disengagement from the gaza strip in the north of the west bank where janine is, this basically has opened the door for hundreds, if not thousands of settlers to settle exactly in these areas. >> and that is happening right now, it is useful to know that there are people like you in israel who are working towards that stopping. but for the moment, the momentum is on the other side. thanks very much for joining, us as always, for the work you do, the co-director of breaking the silence. still ahead, the supreme court just wrapped up another term of controversial rulings, it looks up they will pick up right where they left off, we will dig into the crucial case is set to be reviewed next term. s enter the viewed next term. nourishing moments giveaway for a chance to win

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with rulings that further upset long held precedent and personal rights. the conservative super majority on the court eliminated affirmative action in higher education, and we can lgbtq rights, this of course follows the last term that saw the end of the constitutional right to abortion. looking ahead to the upcoming supreme court term in october, it appears the court is not yet done. experts expect the courts to once again reshape the law in ways that are gonna change the fabric of american society. one of the biggest cases on the docket for the next term, senators around the law that keeps the guns out of the hands of people under domestic violence restraining orders. the case involved a texas man who was convicted under a 1994 law that prohibits him from possessing a firearm because he assaulted his girlfriend. the man argues that the law violates the constitution's second amendment this court's conservative majority already expanded gun rights in a landmark 2022 ruling that invalidated new york's limits on carrying concealed handguns

outside of the, home another case that will be heard next term is more versus united states, it raises the constitutionality of federal taxes provisions that target high earners, and preemptively block future federal tax increases on the richest americans and corporations, the case decides whether a federal tax provision passed in 2017 can require u.s. multinational corporations to pay taxes on profits earned by their foreign system deteriorates. before the law was enacted in 2017, multinational corporations were allowed to defer paying taxes on foreign profits until those profits were repatriated or brought back to the united states. this deferral system encourage companies to keep their earnings offshore. to avoid paying taxes on those earnings. however, under the new provision, the transition tax was introduced as a mechanism to address that. the provision required u.s. shareholders of certain foreign corporations to pay a onetime tax on the deferred foreign income.

the plaintiffs in this case say they received no actual income from their investments in an indian company, but they still got a tax bill. they sued, alleging that the tax was unconstitutional under the 16th amendment, which grants congress the power to levy and income tax, because they claim that their investment doesn't actually qualify as income, the case essentially revisits the laws definition of income, and whether individuals and companies must realize or receive profits from their investments before incurring taxes on them. there is a larger mode of driving this case, petitioners are attacking the trump era measure for the purposes of preventing democrats from implementing a federal tax on high corners in the future. they make no attempt to hide their motives, directly highlighting in their petition recent proposals from the biden administration to tax billionaires based on their assets and investments as opposed to their earned income. the court's decision to take up this case comes an interesting time for the, court to conservative justices facing intense scrutiny for accepting gifts from billionaires.

joining me now is justice correspondent for the nation. he was also and is also an attorney. and author of the book, allow me to retort. a black guy's guide to the constitution. ali, good to see you my, friend thank you for being with us. >> thanks for having, me ali, let's talk about guns. i thought maybe the one place we are making progress on gun safety in this country, and it's very little, and it's very slow, was the idea that people who might be a threat to themselves or others, as demonstrated in some fashion, like abuse, can have their guns temporarily or otherwise taken away from them. some guy in texas apparently disagrees with this and we're a little worried that the supreme court might agree with that guy. >> well, the real problem is a lot of guys in texas disagree with that, and all those guys set on the fifth circuit court of. appears this is the circuit that controls the mississippi alabama, some of it's not alabama, some of the states in louisiana, that circuit is more

conservative and draconian than a traffic court in singapore. one of the reasons this is up to the supreme court, it is u.s. be rahimi. might be that the supreme court could overturn the horrible fifth circuit ruling that put guns back in the hands of domestic abusers. because of the supreme courts bloodthirsty violent history when it comes to gun rights, at least with the conservative super majority. i don't know that they took up the case to overturn, it but i still want to hold on to a shred of hope that the reason why this case is up here is because the fifth circuit got it horribly wrong and maybe just maybe there are five votes on the supreme court to overturn the fifth circuit ruling. that is my hope >> some of the conservatives on the supreme court have a perverse view of liberalism. that the constitution should be examined as it was written. and likely intended at the time.

and as it relates to it's like a, moment there are a lot of people like me who don't come from this, country who are awfully confused about this interpretation of the second amendment because we're not running militias anymore. they're not actually allowed. if you wish to fight on behalf of your, state you have to join the national guard, but that doesn't look like that ever comes. up reasonable people who think that's not what they intended when they wrote that constitution, they don't seem to have any standing in this conversation. >> it is for liberalism, because to get to their blood for the city version of the second amendment, they have to exercise the first part of the amendment which says, regulated militia is necessary. that part they just pretend doesn't exist. and they only go to the rights to bear arms part. which is what it is designed to do. it is not an interpretive method. it is an outcome determinative method. when you apply originalism, liberalism, textualism, you are doing it because you want a certain outcome, the outcome that the conservative majority on the supreme court wants is for everybody to have guns. why they want that outcome?

it is horrible and probably something they need to question about themselves. but that is the outcome that they are driving towards when they implement their faux version of textualism. >> is anybody going to deal with the ethics issue on the supreme court? we all now know from reporting that there is an ethics problem on the supreme court. we all seem to know equally well that apparently no one can do anything about it. >> it is amazing to me that in the heat of the scandal, where they are going to go away for the summer to huddle with their corporate sponsors who talk about what they want to do next. the supreme court took out the tax case that you just talked about. when that case, i mean, folks, you've heard it i'm sure. corporations are people. well apparently, corporations are people right up until it's time for those people to act responsibly and pay their taxes. then all the sudden it's, actually, i'm a limited

liability entity. which does not realize profits until they pass through. i, mean like that's their argument, and for them to do that under the heat of the scandal, it really goes to show the depth of the ethics problem. because there is nobody who should be believe that the kinds of people who pay for these supreme court justices to go on trips and yachts and fishing trips, they don't have an interest in the united states, their names might not be on the, case harlan crow is not a little bit, but if you don't think he is an interest in how that rolls out, you are lying to yourself, and it's ridiculous that the court, in the heat of, that does not take any measure to dissuade the. public their following ethics, rules there are some roles that they care about that they're just going to go full speed ahead and pretend that you're taking it seriously.

it would dissuade some of us. ali, great to see you. thank you for joining. us justice correspondent for the nation and author of the, book allow me to retort. a black eyes guide to the constitution. today's meeting of the velshi banned book club's nearly upon. us i will speak with jonathan, author of today's feature, lawn. boy you are watching velshi on msnbc.

20 something, mike munoz, wants to write the next great american model -- about landscaping. for now who lives with a single mom and a special needs brother moving from job to job. today's velshi banned book club, lawn, boy it is the telling of mike, story it is a semi autobiographical coming of age story, lawn boy grapples with heavy topics including sexual orientation, family dynamics, opportunities for immigrants, classism and capitalism. at its, core lawn boy is a story of identity. as both a mexican american and

a gay, man he grapples with who is and who he loves. and yet, despite the serious subject matter, it manages to be funny and uplifting. relying on absurdist observations and sharp dialogue to lighten the load that, we as a reader, carry alongside mike. it ends a new beginning, mike has come to terms with his sexuality and identity. he is the hero of his own story. quote, whoever you, are whatever your last name, is wherever you came, from whichever way you, swing whatever standing in your, way just remember you are bigger than that. like the man, said you contain multitudes and quote. off the, page lawn boy has been given little room for the multitude's that it teaches, in september 2021, apparent arrived at a local school board meeting with a prepared speech in a white post recovered and sentences from the pages of lawn boy. she discovered that the book was listed a supplemental reading for her sons ap english class. in front of a crowd of parents and school board member she cited a few pages from lawn boy that describes a moment in our

protagonists journey to discover his sexuality. the passages written using strong but non explicit language. she was the first, not the, last this condemnation sparked a mass banning of lawn boy across the u.s.. some 35 school district in 20 states temporarily removed lawn boy from library shelves. at least four of those district banned that book until further notice. the entire book grapples with themes that a young reader wouldn't fully understand. but someone with advanced reading comprehension, remember this wasn't a peak last, where this all started, lawn boy is invaluable. high school age students can and should be having conversations about capitalism, classism, sexual identity, themes that lawn boy so beautifully captures and explores. this is become a common refrain on the velshi banned book club, one that is worth saying again, for a book that has faced such vitriol, lawn boy is written for readers with advanced reading comprehension.

a wide breadth of knowledge. in defensive lawn, boy the national coalition against censorship says this. quote, while not every book is right for every young reader, the role of school libraries as to allow students and parents to make choices according to their own interests, experiences, and family values. however, no parent, student or, community may impose their views, values or interests on others by restricting an entire communities access to particular books and quote. it's not all that surprising that lawn boy would spark a strong reaction, the vast majority of the titles challenged or banned across the country are written by or about people of color and members of the lgbtq+ community. one boy checks both of those. boxes lawn boy centers on the concept of multitude and nuance, the antithesis of those who wish to eliminate literature for students based on one single line, devoid of context. lawn boy is in so many ways the perfect target for anyone who wants to silence those two

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>> seven, there you go. you >> pretty much said it, all i'm ready, your summary of the novel is great. thank you for the mention thing that the book to husky. murray gets lost often. in the dialogue about this book, i grew up in punk bands in early 80s, so rattling cages is nothing new to me. and i knew what i wrote this book that i was dealing with some sort of sensitive and controversial divisive issues, i mean, wealth and equity, racial assumptions, the perils of late capitalism, and for me, front and center, the inherited equities of the american dream. so this isn't my first book, or my last book, that asked the same question, which is, has american made good on all its grand promises? and i'm just looking for a piece of the pie. he's finding one after another, a kodiak boot to the face. >> good cultural reference that my people will remember.

let's come down to the book, banning it comes down to a singular moment in lawn boy which fuels all the calls for. ban if you could go back, would you still include the passage the woman read in that texas call for banning? >> absolutely. and now, as you mention, it was presented to the school board in the meeting, devoid of any context, the context is very important in the scene, which is only about a paragraph long. but mike uses some very coarse language, not graphic, but course language, to describe a sexual experimentation he had with another ball weigh in his preteen years. he is, you know, intentionally using that very coarse language for the specific reason of shocking his best friend, who's really homophobic, who's been, without even knowing mike is nonbinary, teasing him about being a fake or whatever,

because he reads poetry. so he -- uses very coarse language to shock him. obviously the context is important, it was not graphic, language it's nothing you're not going to see in any art movie. >> towards the end of the book, my comes out to his mother. i want to read a quote from the book in which it, says mom, maybe you want to sit down. i said at, last she paused in her scrubbing. michael, what is wrong. well, it turns out that well, -- >> that? what >> mom, i'm gay. >> visibly relieved, she resume scrubbing the mirror. oh, thank god. i thought you had a tumor. mike goes on to reflect on his partner, andrews, much more negative coming out experience with his family, talk to me about this moment, this combination of much introspection that literally everybody who is gay goes through with their parents. sometimes it's a good experience, sometimes it's the

worst experience of their life. >> i would say mike is lucky because like all great moms, she just knows already, so i would say, sodas freddy, everybody but nick, everybody in his life into its it before mike. this is a story of her before for people who come out later in life. you, know i'm not gay myself, i'm cisgender white male, so what am i doing writing this book? well it was important for me to write this book because again, i just think even, myself there's a lot of privileges i take for granted. i think there is an inherent american myth us that the american dream is open for all of us, and we can all be whoever we want, and it's a lot harder for people of color and people of nonbinary persuasions, and i think there's a lot of obstacles that, just because people don't deal with, them they're unwilling to admit are there. i find it interesting that mike

has been acquitted endlessly, it seems, with holden caufield. for instance, the new york times, they called mike a holding call field for the new millennia, something like that. and i get, that i mean, it's a compliment, i get, it a young irreverent narrator who is disaffected. but really, mike is the complete antithesis of holden caufield, who is a wealthy -- he suffering from postwar american -- dropping out of prep schools, wandering around the upper east side of manhattan, paying visits to his professors, mike is scrounging for change in his couch cushion and pulling his own teeth out with pliers. so really, the antithesis, but this is the story wanted to tell. if anything, if i were to conceive holden caufield in this book, i would conceive writing the antithesis of holden caufield. >> let me ask you about a

moment that resonated with me, when mike was describing how important the library was to him. as younger person, it's relevant to a book club. quote, the library was the most stable thing in our lives. at the library, a little ferret of a kid like me had a chance. the only currency he needed was a library card. and quote. elaborate on that for me. >> well, this comes just directly from my life. i had a working single mom. i spent a lot of time in the library. and this of course is the 70s, when almost invariably, librarians were women. with translucent stockings, formidable women, they were like my sisters of mercy. i became and autodidact, i call it an autodidact at a young age, but really i have librarians to think that. technically i'm not and i don't i. dak -- librarians played a huge role in my development as a person. not only as a child but through adult.

i have many friends that are librarians. librarians are the ones that are really in the trenches going to bat for me here. i, mean i've had some threats, cyberattacks, it's been a big castle, very uncomfortable for me throughout the book banning process. but you know, it is the librarians and the educators that really were in the trenches fighting for me, risking losing their job, not with -- none of the benefits, if nothing else, at least i'm getting, look i'm on your show, i'm selling some books. these people are, and i've been there, firsthand i've seen it. we in idaho, i wasn't boise when the legislation, they're trying to push legislation, it was seven in the morning on the first day of spring break. something like that. they were actually trying to pass a bill that would make it illegal, you could sue a bookstore or library for being offended by their content. i mean, this is what librarians

and educators are up against. >> we will have the librarians on as well because you're absolutely right. we talk to authors, we realize it's librarians and teachers that are on the front lines of this thing we. >> they are my heroes. >> and they should be. >> thank you for reading, it it's a careful and thoughtful reading. >> what a pleasure. jonathan everson, the author of lawn boy, today's feature for the velshi banned book club. that is up for, me thanks for watching, stay right where you are. my friend alex witt is up next with reports.

>> a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome everyone to alex witt reports. developing this hour, a brand-new report reveals former trump chief of staff john kelly said the former president asked about having the irs look into fbi officials.