the first republican primary and caucuses. yesterday, the republican party of iowa announced that it will hold its first in the nation caucus on january the 15th, 2024. momentum is really going to pick up next month in the republican party holds its first primary debates in milwaukee on august 23rd. that will be the first real opportunity for the country to see most, or at least some, of the candidates. together. at least a dozen republicans will be competing to be the gop nominee in 2024, but only five of those declared candidates have met the requirements to qualify for the first debate so far. ron desantis, nikki haley, vivek ramaswamy, tim scott, and the former president, donald trump. the undisputed front runner in the race right now. that's difficult to overstate just how unusual this race is turning out to be. the republican front runner has already been impeached twice for abusing his powers presidents, yet he is running for that position again, and he is leading the pack by a lot.

not only that, he's been criminally indicted twice so far, he could face multiple trials in between campaign stops during primary season next year. essentially, on top of all of that, he appears to remain in control of the narrative and the eject cherie of this race. take for example the ways that those have responded to the criminal indictment last month, and how those responsive has a vault in the weeks since. have a promissory quickly made a pledge to pardon trump. tim scott said that the indictment is, quote, a serious case, but with serious allegations. at the same time, he condemned president biden and the justice department, alleging that they were targeting and hunting republicans. more interesting is how the talking points of a vote for trump's own former vice president, mike pence. shortly after the public learned about the indictment, pence said that he was, quote, deeply troubled but that no one is above the law. then, after the indictment was unsealed, he told cnbc, quote, this indictment contains

serious charges and i cannot defend what is alleged, and quote. now, pence is vowing to, quote, clean house at the highest level justice department. the very department, by the, way trying to hold donald trump accountable for what pence himself called serious charges. trump's criminal indictment in his enduring popularity among republicans and the base have forced the candidates to talk about the justice department on the campaign trail. more importantly, trump's attack on the justice department are resonating among that base of voters, and vowing to clean house at the doj. pence said that many americans have, quote, lost confidence in the justice department, probably because people like his former boss have relentlessly attacking its and decree. this is the snake eating its own tale, but more broadly, trump's attacks in the doj, once, again fuel republican skepticism of the people, the civil service to work across many agencies of federal government, and that is more palatable talking point that fits into a decades long

conservative effort to shrink the size of federal government, and diminish the influence of the so-called administrative state. campaign trail promises to clean house of the new drain the swamp. some candidates are seizing on that opportunity. on the campaign trail in new hampshire on friday, nikki haley said that in addition to the department of justice, she also believes that the intelligence agencies, in the state department, quote, have to be cleaned out. rhonda sanchez has also vowed to, quote, clean house, top to bottom at the fbi. on day one of his presidency, always a busy day, he would fire the fbi director, chris wright, a trump appointee who trump once called, quote, an impeccably qualified individual. recently, desantis has widened the scope of his housecleaning pledge. late last month, he told fox news that as president, he would seek to shut down the departments of education, commerce, and energy as well as the irs, the deep state, apparently runs deep.

joining me now is the latest candidates to trump's of the republican presidential primary race, the former texas congressman, will hurd. before he was a member of congress, he was a cia officer. he's also the author of the book, american reboot, an idealist guys are getting big things done. congressman, it is good to see you. we've got to spend a lot of time. >> it has, thanks for having me on. i'm sorry i couldn't be there in studio with. you >> will see that another time. i guess i want to ask, you in this very fractured race, we're sort of everyone other than donald trump, or ron desantis, are pulling in very low numbers, what is a success look like for you? >> well success, for, me is the. when the goal is to -- buy january 13th, when the first primary, republican primary is going to be held. the reality is, you know, most of the country is frustrated with the direction the country is going. most of the country doesn't want to see joe biden or donald trump on the ballot. they want something different.

we're faced with many generation defining challenge, as we need candidates addressing that. michael in announcing this, announcing around two weeks ago, is to say, hey, and up as enough, or going to do things a little different. the way when campaigns is simple. i do your voters, turn them out. that's what we plan on doing over the next six months. >> before you served in congress, you were cia officer. you're part of this administrative, stated this deep state, of the intelligence apparatus that needs to be cleaned out. what's that all about, why is this becoming so popular among some of your competitors? >> well there is a growing frustration between the american public and many of our agencies. in your lead up, you're absolutely right, it's because some of our senior leaders are criticizing them. there have been some very senior leaders that have made some mistakes within these agencies. one of the things that i try to remind people is that the leadership, and the rank-and-file, are two

different things. you know the men and women in the cia, the fbi, they're working hard every single day, putting themselves in harm's way, oftentimes been waif in the family in order to protect us, and keep us safe. so it's important to have that distinction. also, we have to remember those leaders of those organizations, with great power comes great responsibility in a level of transparency. especially when those decisions are unique, and have never been done. so there is, it's concerning when the american public lacks trust in institutions, but also those that are trying to build these institutions, and lead these institutions, they need to articulate their vision of how are they going to populate this. why are these agencies important? >> what about the actual recurring allegations that the department of justice, for instance, and the fbi, target

republican specifically, or unfairly, or not equally to the way they think about democrats. do you believe that to be true? >> well, let me be clear on doj prosecution of donald trump, especially when it comes to the classified documents that he had at his hotel. i think it's outrageous. yes, i recognize that were innocent until proven guilty. if even one of those allegations in the indictment is true, to me, that's someone who put himself in harm's way in order to collect many of those secrets that were in those documents. when it comes to the couple year, how cavaliere he is in treating those documents, that shows our capabilities. disinformation got into the wrong hands. it would lead to a loss of life. to the men and women that are surveying, and putting themselves in harm's way. to those that have family members serving in these

agencies, we should all be shocked in upset because of what's happening there. so this is, if this case goes forward, and these allegations are true, then he should, he's not above the law. that's point. 1.2 i think the frustration with the department of justice goes all the way back to 2016 election and the allegations with the russians. adam schiff would go off all the time talking about there is evidence of collusion, but none of that came forward in the mueller investigation. that is, that was the kind of beginning of the frustration. that's why i've been saying they department of justice needs to talk about transparency, or why they have done certain things and not others, so that they can show that they are not trying to, you know, target republicans, and let democrats off the hook.

there have been instances where senior leaders have done things that were not in normal practice. >> let me ask you about declaring your candidacy a couple of weeks ago, to an of weeks ago. the debate, the first debate is six weeks away. i want to ask you if you want to be on that stage. the moment you haven't met the requirements. one of those a stipulating, or signing a loyalty pledge that says that you will support whoever the candidate is. you are troubled by the idea of being donald trump, and you don't want to make a commitment to. that yesterday and stuart stevens on who said the people like, you and chris, christiane isa hutchinson, we're taking strong positions on this. it's morally correct, but would you stick with those stipulations if they don't allow you on the debate stage? >> look, my position is my position. yes, i am working in order to get the 40,000 donors, and making the case to 40,000

individual donors. hey, if you want to see someone on the stage who has experience in foreign policy, domestic policy, and technology, go to -- for america.com. give me at least $1 to get that on there. i'm not changing my opinion on the loyalty pledge. i cannot, i can't lie in order to get access to, a microphone. i can't do. it my issue is not with supporting the republican nominee. my issue is with supporting donald trump. donald trump is a proven loser. he hasn't won the elections as 2016. he lost the house in 2018. he lost the senate and the white house in 2020. he prevented the republicans from having the red wave in 2022. heck, he hasn't even agreed to sign the loyalty pledge either. you know, we all know, i've been telling republicans, if you elect donald trump for the republican nominee, then we are willingly given joe biden for more years because joe biden will be donald trump. that is my issue.

i'm sticking to my guns. in the end, i've taken one of, that is to protect and defend the constitution. i take one ply, did that's why put my hand on my heart, and pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states. i took one foul, that is to my amazing a wonderful wife. six months, ago and we got married. i'm going to keep it at that. >> congratulations on that. let's talk for a moment about abortion. it is not prove to be a winning political strategy for republicans. you said in the past that you would support a 15-week ban. which you actually support a federal legislative ban on abortion after 15 weeks? >> if congress put a 15-week ban on my desk i would sign it. right now, it looks like that is not a likelihood. one of the things i think that we should also be talking about is maternal health, neonatal health, access to birth control. it's crazy how, especially

black women that have a child, or childbearing in the united states, how often they die. it's like the stats are equivalent to places in the developing world. that's unacceptable. we should be concerned with that. we should be focusing on those issues as well. >> does it concern you the way that you've mentioned the things about abortion bans that concern you, but is it something that conservative republicans in particular leading into despite the fact that public support of the kinds of things that are happening in some states, including your, own are unpopular with voters at large. >> look, the way you win elections as by talking about issues that people want to hear about. what i've learned crisscrossing the country, in the last two and a half weeks, before that, people want to hear candidates that have a vision for the future, not complaining about the pass. they're talking about issues,

putting food on the table, roof over their head, making sure people are happy, healthy, safe. those, that's a way our focus should be. they're worried about making sure their kids have a great education. these are less an opportunity in november. with president biden's polling numbers so bad, we have an opportunity to win, and we have to put forward, republicans have to put forward, the right candidate in order to take advantage of his opportunity. >> so on the other side of the answer is would you tell your republican colleagues stop with the abortion stuff? it's actually going to be hurtful. >> well i don't tell anyone not to say anything, or do anything. if my republican colleagues are going to do and talk about what they want to talk about. that's not my responsibility to tell them what to do. i've outlined some of the issues that i think when he strategies, and things that i think we should be putting forward our vision of the future on. >> good to talk to, again thank you for joining us.

let us know when you're in, town will do this in studio. >> would love that. enjoy the rest of the day. >> former republican congressman, will hurd of texas, now a candidate for president in 2024. coming up, how antiabortion activists are trying to change the rules to preserve their power to ban abortion against the will of the majority of voters. plus, following the supreme court striking that affirmative action, the next battle over college admissions is taking hold. we're going to investigate legacy admissions, and why a new federal civil rights complaint is striking to illuminate that practice. up, next you new york city wants food delivery workers to be paid a livable minimum wage. seems fair enough, except the million dollar companies that employ them don't want to cough up the money. up the money mr. clean magic eraser powers through tough messes. so it makes it look like i spent hours cleaning! and you know i didn't. it makes my running shoe look like new. it's amazing! wow, it makes it look like...

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let's do the math. if an employee makes $7.24, $7.25 an hour for 40 hours a week, and they work 52 weeks a year, that employees annual salary comes up to $15,080 before taxes. that doesn't seem like a livable wage to you, it's because it isn't. it's even more unlivable if you reside in a major city like new york. now, most states, particularly blue states, have set their own minimum wage much higher, including new york. no one has to live on 7:25 an hour. in 2016, the state of new york enacted a series of wage increases to hike the statewide minimum wage to $15 an hour. even that is pushing it to the limit. if someone is working in new york city making $15 an hour, working 40 hours a week, for 52 weeks a year, their grand total is $31,200 before taxes. you don't pay a lot of tax if you actually earn that little money, but still, it's not very

much money. some viewers another part of the country might see this and think, what an improvement. but if you are new yorker you're probably shaking your head, because according to a study by start us, that the salary needed to live comfortably in new york and the new york metro area is $78,524. that is more than doubled the minimum wage that you can earn in the state. to make matters worse, smart asset also determined that at 100,000 dollar salary in new york city actually feels more like $36,000 because the steep taxes and the cost of living in the big apple. new york city is the thriving metropolis with more than 4.6 workers, not people, just workers. despite a law that says that everyone who works here should earn at least $15 an hour, the more than 60,000 food delivery couriers make far-left than that. according to the city of new york, those workers make an average of $7 and ten cents per hour before tips. again, that's $15,000 a year

before tips. once again, new york city is trying to fix this issue, passing a law that requires food delivery companies like grubhub, uber eats, and doordash to pay their careers a living minimum wage. the law says these companies must pay their delivery workers 50 cents for every minute they spend on a trip, or pay them a minimum of $17.96 an hour for the time they spend active on each app. that doesn't include tips. well, the multi million dollar companies are not on board with us. for major food delivery apps, grubhub, uber eats, jordan, rely, which together make up 99% of all food deliveries in new york city, are suing the city to try to get out of paying their delivery workers a minimum wage. the lawsuit argues that the move would be too expensive, adding to the costs that are paid by both customers and restaurants. the companies also say the law could be easily manipulated by workers for more pay if as many of them do, they use multiple food delivery platforms at the same time. that's a valid concern.

in a win for the delivery companies, just yesterday, a new york judge halted the law from going into effect. now, there was a time, not that long ago, when food delivery carriers were considered essential workers. when things got tough during those never independent mike lockdowns, new yorkers relied on food and grocery deliveries. businesses relied on takeout orders to keep the doors open when people couldn't come in the side there restaurants. when most of us were hunkered down to avoid the harmful wildfire smoke from canada, your food kept getting delivered by people who work outside. when it's raining, sweltering, freezing, it shows up at your door. these people put their lives in the line to put the -- amani saturating that point. in 2021, 18 food delivery workers died on the plot due to hit and runs, assaults, and attempted robberies. according to a report by workers justice project, 49% of respondents reported having

been in an accident or crashed while doing a delivery. of these workers, 75% said that they had paid for the medical care with their own personal funds. these food delivery services are a gold mine. between march 2021 in may 2022, up deliveries accounted for 15% of all new york city restaurant sales. get the people responsible for that are getting chewed up and spit out by the companies who are profiting off of their labor. having a minimum wage for our workers to allow our lives to run smoothly is the right thing to do. thin to do. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ so i didn't think i needed swiffer, until, i saw how easily it picked up my hair every time i dried it! only takes a minute. look at that! the heavy duty cloths are extra thick, for amazing trap & lock. even for his hair.

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help level the playing field for qualified applicants from historically underrepresented groups. now, another admissions policy is being targeted. one that arguably is had the opposite effect if affirmative action. it's the practice of legacy admission. when applicants get special preference in the emission process because their relatives go to the same school. applicants could also get special preferences that their family donates money to the school. legacy and donor base admissions are traditionally, disproportionately benefited wealthy and white students. this past week, a coalition of black and latino advocacy group spiraled of federal civil rights complaint against harvard university for its consideration of legacy and the admissions process. the complaint reads, quote, each year, harvard college grand special preference in its admission process to hundreds of mostly white students, not because of anything they have accomplished, but rather solely based on who the relatives are. the students who received the special preferences, donor legacy preferences, are significantly more likely to be accepted than other applicants,

and constitute up to 15% of harvard's admitted students. the students who received this preferential treatment, based solely on familial ties, or overwhelmingly white. nearly 70% of generated applicants are white, and nearly 70% of legacy applicants are also white. and quote. now those numbers speak for themselves, but if you're wondering how much more likely a legacy applicant is to be admitted than any other average applicants, a 2019 report analyzed harvard's admission data showing that students with at least one parent who attended harvard had an acceptance rate of 33.6% compared with 5.9% for non legacy students. harvard is mentioned by name in the complaint, it's not the only system, it's all the old school days of the system. according to a wall street journal report in 2020, a 56% of the top 250 institutions in america considered legacy and

their admissions. more on this, i'm joined by alan harris. he's a staff writer for the atlantic and the author of the book, the state much provide. why america's colleges have always been unequal, and how to set them. right adam, good to see you again. thanks for being with us today. >> thanks for having me. >> in terms of the merits of the, case how strong is this case when making this argument that harvard another selected universities need to get out of the business of legacy? >> you, know i think it's a pretty strong case. especially in light of what this sort of justices have said in terms of their hesitation around legacy admissions. this is a system where you mentioned something like five times, students with five times more likely to be admitted into a place like harvard if they had a parent who attended the university. you've seen several groups, you see president biden, you've seen advocacy groups, you've seen eva florent summers, the former president of harvard who had been in favor of legacy admissions, coming out in this

practice. clearly, disproportionately, benefits white students who are applying to the institution. i think they do have a strong case here. >> i want to read from something that darren hamilton wrote, published in the new york times, about how to fix college missions now. they write the racial disparities that led to race conscious admissions are not the result of a natural evolution, or a merit-based process grounded and work ethic, capability, or achievement, but rather are rooted in a legacy of discrimination in policy choices. that's the whole argument that we're talking about in favor of affirmative action. it applies here too because legacy serves to do, in many cases, the opposite of what affirmative action was trying to do. it's preserving what the status quo is in terms of admissions and student body at these universities. >> exactly. it's not an accident that our institutions looked the way that they do today. if you look at the granularity

of the ways that they tried to keep black students in particular, out of higher education emergency relief fund's, i have to think about superficial, in the 1940s, when the supreme court said the university of oklahoma's law school had to admit her, or created institution for her in order to attend law school in the state of oklahoma. the state of oklahoma, instead of admitting her to the university of oklahoma school of law, creates a law school, hires it's faculty, creates a curriculum in five days, and says it's equal to an institution that's been open for more than 50 years. when you think about the granularity of the ways that they kept black students in particular out of these institutions, and allowed white students to get into these institutions, now if you consider legacy admissions, well, this is still an equitable process, it's quite clear to me. >> since the civil rights movement we have had a very slow but growing group of non-traditional students getting into these highly selected universities. about 30% out the legacy applicants are not white.

what does this do to them? effort some arguments that are you now disadvantaged people who have finally gotten to break through that glass ceiling, and their kids? >> you know, i have heard that argument as well, right? i'll talk to people in those say, well, it's fascinating that just as we are starting to reach some of the benefits of legacy admissions, you are trying to take them away. i do think is that you're looking at the broader picture of, higher education emergency relief fund? these incredibly selective institutions that are now no longer able to consider recent emissions the way that they used to. i think that there does need to be a broader reconsideration of the ways that institutions are admitting and rolling students, even if it simply means admitting and unruly more students. i do think that there as a broader reconsideration happening now that one of the tools to have some equity in higher education has been eliminated. >> we have a lot more to talk about, what to continue this conversation. again thank you for being with

us. adam harris is a staffer for the atlantic, and the author of the important book, the state must provide, by america's colleges has always been an equally hot is that the right. president biden is now envoy to the united kingdom for meetings with king charles and prime minister rishi sunak before heading to lithuania for an important nato summit starting on tuesday. here's biden to pardon from delaware just a few minutes ago. russia and the worn ukraine are going to be the major, if not singular focus of those nato meetings. sweden's application to join the defense alliance, which is currently being blocked by turkey. another nation not in nato, switzerland, which is a long-standing process of neutrality, is the focus of today's velshi battle of the day. what's the best thing about switzerland? if you think you know, hit me up on social media. of the answer at the end of the show. right here, on velshi. , on velshi. otein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that. -everyone: woo hoo! ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. enter the nourishing moments giveaway for a chance to win $10,000.

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enough to the shooting of a 17 year old block teenager by a white police officer. >> we live in a complicated world. >> it doesn't seem that complicated to me. >> violence, mortality, it's the same story just a different name. >> that's a trailer for the 2018 movie, that you. give the film is based on the novel by the same name, by the author angie thomas. harold is one of the great young adult novels of our time, they hit you give centers around the 17 year old star jackson. she is divided on the middle by her white prep school, a predominantly black hole life. parts of the death of her best from at the hands of a police officer, facing pressure to appear before a grand jury, starts to worlds begin to converge over questions of justice and equality. the hate you give us a razor sharp look at what it means to be a black teenage girl

discovering who she is in a dangerous world. angie thomas is going to be joining me next week on the velshi banned book club to discuss the heartbreaking relevance of the hate you give. this is a big deal. we wanted to feature the hey you give since the inception of the velshi banned book club, well over a year ago. this interview is a long time in the mccain, and i really hope you'll enjoy a. pick up your copy today, and get rating. send us your questions and comments to my story at velshi dot com. that's my story at velshi.com. all right, up next, antiabortion republicans and one state have given up trying to convince voters to support their draconian abortion bans. instead, they're trying to change the democratic process so they went even if the majority doesn't support them. ty doesn't support them. heartburn all day and all night. prilosec otc reduces excess acid for 24 hours, blocking heartburn before it starts. one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

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ohio voters could amend the state constitution with a simple majority of more than 50% of the vote. the republican-led legislature now wants change. one month from now, ohio will hold a special election. there's only one issue on that ballot. whether future amendments to the constitution will instead need the approval of 60% of the electorate. now you might be wondering why ohio republicans are suddenly concerned about the percentage of votes that it takes to amend the state constitution. there is a cynical motive behind this effort. in november, ohio voters will decide whether to enshrine abortion rights into the state

constitution, which polina shown, 59% of ohio and support. ballot measures have become the new front in the state level battle over abortion rights when the supreme court overturned roe v. wade last year. so far, since roe is overturned, every time abortion rights of input to a popular vote on the state ballots in red, blue, and purple states alike, voters have chosen the side of abortion rights. it's not a coincidence that a few months before ohio was set to vote on an abortion rights measure that is supported by 59% of the states registered voters, republicans are suddenly trying to increase the threshold for passage of that measure to 60%. abortion in ohio is currently legal up to 22 weeks of pregnancy. in 2019, the republican-led legislature passed a law banning abortion after six weeks of pregnancy, before many women know that they are pregnant. a judge issued an injunction against the six-week ban in october of last year, reverting back to the 22-week ban. now you might remember that at

least one case that made news well that six-week ban was in effect. a ten-year-old rape victim who was forced to travel across state lines to get an abortion. now abortion rights advocates believe that the best option for protecting access in the long term is to put the question to voters. again, i'll remind, you -- support the legal abortion. antiabortion republicans, the same people who passed and signed into law an abortion ban so cruel and draconian that it left a child rape victim with no options, that antiabortion crowd is not trying to persuade anyone about anything. they're not trying to make antiabortion policy that would appeal to a broader base of the electorate. they're simply trying to change the rules so that they can resume say control over the bodies of women and girls against the will of the majority of ohio voters. joining me now is the democratic representative, cherice davids of kansas. she is one of the first native american woman to serve in congress. i'm also joined by david pepper, the former chairman of the ohio

democratic party. he's the author of several books, including saving democracy. a. uses manual for saving america. congresswoman, i want to talk with you because your state, which is not overwhelmingly conservative or democratic, it's, you have statewide officials who are democratic, you have a legislature that's republican. your state had this question put to them. they voted, before everyone else said, to say we don't want to write that we have taken away. that is the kind of thing that when you put this question to voters, even if they generally don't like the idea of abortion, they generally dislike having a write taken away more. >> yeah. not just that, i mean, it's good to be here and see you again. it's not just that, it's that people don't want politicians may gain very personal decisions for them. i think one of the things that comes to mind when listening to

what's happening in ohio is that what we're seeing is, frankly, extreme politicians trying to not just take away rights, but insert themselves into very personal decisions. i think that what we saw in kansas was an overwhelming push back against those extreme policies. i think what we're seeing right now is that continued recognition that, look, this is scary. there are so many people out there whose lives were immediately impacted when roe was overturned. i think that we're going to continue to see people showing up from across the political spectrum, the ideological spectrum, across demographics, and all across the country. and showing up to say, stop trying to take our rights away. stop trying to push these extreme agendas. we need to get stuff done. getting stuff done looks an awful lot like making sure that life is more affordable for people. not these extreme policies.

>> david, let's talk about what's going on in ohio right now. first of, all this is one of those august special elections. republicans themselves trying to get rid of these august special elections because one can assume that in august turnout is low for these things, the results tend to be exaggerated toward an extreme groups who will rally around a particular cause. republicans in like the idea of them in the first place, now they are using one to set up the outcome of the november vote on abortion in ohio. >> yeah, i mean, they actually wrote a law banning it. right now it's illegal to have one in ohio. the supreme court allowed them to do. at this august election violates the state of ohio. that's how lawless this. it is as you did in your perfect setup, they're desperate to get ahead of this november election because they're scared that what happened in kansas will happen here. the numbers are very strong here. they know that. they literally wrote their own law banning these elections to

change the rules. they know, they greatly fear that they would lose. otherwise think they probably would. that's why they're trying to change the rules, it's outrageous. >> congresswoman, let's talk about. this kansas was just one example. it was the earliest example. and the midterm elections last, year there were several other states that had a valid question as it related to abortion. places like michigan, they were specifically brought to enshrine abortion protections in the constitution. in other states, it was more like kansas. it was anti-abortion groups that are trying to put this question. regardless of who brought the question, and who the, what the voter population was, everybody came to the same conclusion. they don't want their rights taken away, or as you, said they don't want politicians getting involved in the stuff. it is the kind of thing can people try to enshrine abortion rights in the face of the fall of road to use these ballot measures, notwithstanding what they're trying to do in ohio, to get those rights? >> look, i think that's, of

course this is going to depend state to state. i think what you're going to see is the general public, and regular people, they're just not okay with all of these extreme policies. that's true in kansas, i think that's true and a lot of different places, as you, said we saw that on the ballot. and so many states. i think, look, for each state that needs to rally support against pushing for these extreme policies that were seen and the state legislatures, or if a bunch of people need to get together from across the puck back strung out demographics and ideologies, they need to get together to protect their rights. i think we're going to continue to see that happening all across the country. kansas is, of course, i'm very proud of my state. i feel like we showed up, demonstrated to people that when you build a coalition of people who want to maintain their rights, who want to push back against extreme policies,

it's absolutely possible. >> david what happens here? what's the only solution, is the only solution to have people turn out for vote that they normally wouldn't turn out for? a special election that has one question on it. because if those who want to do what they're trying to do in ohio succeed, there was a very good chance that the effort to and try to abortion rights in ohio in november will fail. it's on a possibility, because the 59% of voters say they supported, you may be able to get everybody out to get more than 60%. what do you see happening in ohio? >> well i'm he, say one thing is that this is not just an ohio thing. this is not written in ohio, i don't think that the state came up with this. this is a part of the national effort. my first book was called laboratories of autonomy. all of these states have the same playbook. if this succeeds in ohio, to raise a, standard it's common everywhere they can get. it if we have to crush it in ohio to give ourselves a chance to protect abortion access in

november, we also question ohio. my hope is that this basically says to the national republican effort that the folks, this is being funded by out of state billionaires, for, example i want this to be such a row that it stops this from happening in other states where i'm afraid it will happen if it doesn't and hear. the people of the states are a threat to the legislatures. if the people rise up, they can stop it. if ohio and other states, they're going to try to make it harder and harder for the people to weigh in, so we stop in ohio i hope we build momentum and stop it wherever. we're always learning from each other's successes failures, in the common in here, it'll be common in other states. >> congresswoman you're nodding at that. at this point people have the opportunity to check out what's going on. i guess that's the value of

having these conversations on tv, understanding that it's happening. this may be the opportunity to stop this in its tracks. >> yeah. i think david made such a good point when he says a lot of times, these are out of state billionaires. they're very wealthy individuals that are funding these efforts to frankly, to suppress the voices of the people who are, you know, for me, at home in kansas. again, another reason why i was so proud to see our state step up and push back against these extreme policies, and pull in for the folks in ohio for the same thing. >> david, you and i talked in a different context about different environments, particularly around, i think, tennessee that you and i have been talking, about those two young men got expelled from the legislature. the point you made is that a lot of these places, you may have a more balanced picture

statewide, and their statewide elections. a lot of these states there are gerrymandered situations that cause more public majorities, and supermajorities. peoples votes can be very important in instrumental if they understand that. and your opinion, and some of the states are gerrymandered republican majorities, is that a solvable problem with people showing up to vote? or have we gotten so far down but gerrymandering that it's, not states can be substantially more conservative and reckless and even congress again? >> right now it's a crisis. we have terrible gerrymandering, we have a crisis of uncontested, racism that is making the legislation not at all reflect the people. i keep saying that kansas is sort of the bat signals in the country, that the stakes are not nearly as extreme as their legislatures. the legislatures are drawn to allow extremists to exist in a world with no accountability. they passed laws completely out of touch with their own people. that is why i hope these ballot

initiatives can succeed, because that will really reflect the people. over the long term we can't accept it. i don't think it's easy, whether it's bringing ballot measures where you can and gerrymandering, like they did in michigan. we did it a few years ago in ohio. we can succeeded, but this laws the legislature ignored the constitution. even if they gerrymander, you should never accept half of them never being a post. they are living with no accountability. we don't run, we make that accountability so much worse. it fuels extremism because they can pass these crazy laws and there's nowhere knocking on their door the next election or putting that out. we have to take on the gerrymandering. even in the gerrymandered world is a lot to do to bring accountability back to the state houses that large they don't have any of it. this is making this where this extremism is bad. there's a lot we can do. in a longueuil mindset, we're

not going to solve it. >> you are actually evidence that some of these places are not what we think they are, politically, right? your own election in this district is not so overwhelmingly red. you exists through a court of appeal across party lines. >> yeah. i think, you know, dave it makes a good point. it's not just the policies but some of the politicians that were seen in some of the state legislatures. it's super majority in some cases that's the case here in kansas. we've got a lot of very extreme politicians who often are on contested, and various seats across the country. i love the idea that david is talking about. i often talk about that too, you know, we have to think long term about this stuff. the evidence is right here. our parents had, and our generation had more rights than

what currently is existing when it comes to choice in our country. it's unacceptable. we absolutely need to keep pushing to make sure that we are electing people who really match their district. whether that's at the state level, with the federal level. >> that level of accountability, by voters, is something we can actually do. every one of us can do that. whether the outcome is what you wanted to, be or not. the fact that you show, up you vote, and you let someone know, there is someone against, then the somebody in the ballot box to whom they have to answer. i appreciate the message that you both bring to our viewers. democratic representatives, davidson of kansas. david pepper, former chairman of the ohio democratic party. author of saving democracy, a users guide for every american. author of the important book, laboratories a vetocracy. worth picking up both of those and bring them. we'll be right back. ack. t turn into scientists. tourists photographing thousands of miles of remote coral reefs.

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