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committee, jeremy harrison. thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. a lot to dig into here but i really want to start with -- we are just 18 months out from the 2024 election, not that far. what is the dmc doing now in swing states like arizona and georgia that are swing states like arizona and michigan that lay the groundwork that people can't see. >> back in january we change the primary calendar and i told him i said mr. president, i know you're doing the state of the union. let me give you the state of the dnc. we have never been stronger coming out of a midterm and going into a presidential election. one of the successful things we did was to invest in the infrastructure of the party.

we put $100 million on the ground and we didn't do it just a few months before the election. we actually put it on the ground a year, year and half and just to give folks contrast, in 2018 we put $30 million on the ground. we had the largest water protection program ever in the history of the dnc and much of that infrastructure we built in the senate and the governor races and the house races, that infrastructure is still there and we are building on it right now. when you ask somebody like john fetterman or josh a pero or catherine cortez vasto about what was the big difference, many of them will tell you the buzz for the dnc's early investment in the state to build that infrastructure was really the linchpin for them to win their election and that is the brainwork by which we go into this presidential election

in places like arizona, nevada, michigan. i feel really good about where we are going, and our effort to make sure we get joe biden and kamala harris elected and win races up and down the valley. >> one of the issues that comes up a lot is this issue of third- party candidates on the ballot. we are seeing outside beds seeking the green party nomination. we are seeing the potential are rumors that some might decide to run as third-party candidates. what is the dnc strategy to counter that threat because that could have an impact in determining the outcome of the election in 2024. >> as you know, the stakes in the selection could not be higher. you think about the contrast we have right now, you have a party fighting for freedom, for more rights and not less, and you see the most extreme republican

party i have ever seen in my lifetime. they are constantly chipping away at the freedoms and rights of all the american people, so this is not the time to experiment. this is not the time to play around in the margin and what we see is a lot of folks who want to be relevant and try to be relevant in the selections not looking at the big picture, that we are not going to -- we have to re-elect joe biden. we have to re-elect kamala harris because there is no third-party candidate that will win this election. it has never happened in the history of this country and it ain't going to start in 2024, so we have to stay focused on the fight that we have ahead, and that the threat we see about democracy and that is the extremists coming out of the republican party. >> you, of course, are a south carolina -- from south carolina, proud south carolinian, and is the first primary state, despite ongoing pushback from other states,

president biden is in south carolina this week reinforcing how important it is. it is diverse, but it is not a swing state, so my question for you is, why south carolina? why not georgia or north carolina? also diverse states representing the base, but more swing states. why is south carolina a better choice to be first? >> you know south carolina has been in the early state window now for almost two decades and if you look at the other early state parties were states during that time, iowa, new hampshire, nevada, south carolina has been the best indicator. i think the only primary in which south carolina did not choose the eventual nominee of the democratic party was when john edwards and john kerry ran, and the only reason for that is john edwards was a native of south carolina. south carolina has been the best indicator of who is eventually going to be the nominee of the democratic party , and why is that the case? it is the case because for decades, black voters have been

the backbone of the democratic party, and what happens in south carolina has a ripple effect. what happens in north carolina, georgia, mississippi, alabama, and across the country where there is significant african- american population. there is a statistic i love to use that says 90% of african- americans in this country can trace at least one ancestor from south carolina, and why is that? it is because 40% of enslaved people came into this country through the port of charleston, so it really is the glue for a lot of the african-american community. it has been the backbone for the democratic party. we have seen democracy as we saw in the last election and south carolinian voters, particularly the black vote will continue to do that is the first in the nation primary. >> there is a number of elected officials. they could've

changed anyway. president biden was not on the ballot there in a candidate like rfk junior who has started a campaign vote in the state also spread conspiracy theories but seem to have made at least in samples whether they are legit or not, some headway among democratic primary voters, so two questions here. one is new hampshire. how concerned are you about the impact in 2024? >> new hampshire is a very important state. for 50 years, new hampshire kicked off the process and the democratic party is a different party than it was 50 years ago.

we were a much more diverse party than we are, and so there is no state that has an ownership for how we kick this off. the one thing i often correct my friends in new hampshire in -- they like to say they are the first but they have always been second. iowa, then new hampshire. the only thing that has changed this time around -- they will still be the second contest, but it is south carolina then new hampshire and nevada following it up. so, the president is going to still compete in new hampshire in the general election, and we have given new hampshire as much time as they need in order to figure out the primary process, but the bottom line is this. south carolina is the official first in the primary state for the dnc going for the 2024 election site. >> what about rfk junior. is

new hampshire where he is making a play? is out there appearing on a range of right-wing outlets, spreading conspiracy theories. the dnc has endorsed joe biden, but he has made some headway at least in some polls, so what are you going to do about rfk junior? >> i think what we are going to do is continue to make sure the american people, particularly democrats, understand how joe biden and kamala harris have delivered for them. when i think back on this presidency and what president biden has done in the first two years with a 50-50 senate on a good day and less than a five seat majority in the house, this next presidential term that i think about, i think about lbj. this is one of the most successful presidencies in my lifetime starting with the american rescue plan to the infrastructure bill to the chips act to all of these things that we have done, transforming the judiciary. he put in almost 50 of the 100 judges, african-american, african-american women, more african-american of women on the appellate court and all

presidencies combined and i can go on and on on how beneficial this presidency has been to the american people. the reason why we go to the polls to vote for president is to get stuff done. tell me what president in our lifetime has gotten more done than joe biden house? >> jaime harrison, thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. up next, look at what it is going to take to mobilize progressive voters in 2024. i will ask how the latest supreme court rulings could factor into that goal. plus gavin newsom tells me how he is trying to boost democrats and republican-led states. enjoy 15+ blends before rapidly recharging via usb-c.

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people tend to support progressive causes and historically vote for democrats. that gap has only grown lighter after last year's midterm. in 2020, a whopping 50% of young people ages 18 to 29 turned out to vote, which was an 11 point increase from 2016, and even in 2022, about 27% of voters under the age of 30 cast a ballot during the midterm election, which traditionally has much lower turnouts. that is the highest turnout number in the last 30 years, and that made a huge difference for democrats. consider that 70% of voters between the ages of 18 and 29 voted for candidate john fetterman in pennsylvania compared to 55% of voters between the ages of 35 and 40. overall, 63% of young voters voted for democratic house candidates in last year's election. among voters of colors, it's an even bigger margin. 89% of black used, 69% of latino youth compared to 58% of

young white voters but there have also been a number of crushing blows to progressive priorities in the last couple of weeks because of the supreme court's decision on student loans and affirmative action. are those decisions energizing? are they debilitating? where will blame be placed? joining me now is congressman ro khanna of california, who has been a big champion for progressive causes that young people care about. he is a member of the congressional progressive caucus in the house and co- chair of bernie sanders' 2020 campaign. i want to start by getting your take on something a new york times analysis piece set about how the supreme court rulings offer democrats a potential way forward. it said quote, the court's decision could fuel broader outreach to the working-class voters who have drifted away from the party because of what they see as its elitism.

of course if you agree with that, how do you think democrats could use these recent rulings to more effectively reach out to working-class voters? >> well, the court is moving us backwards and young people, in particular, are outraged that the court is taking away the relief of student loans. they are moving to a time where colleges used to be just for the wealthy and largely white, so i do think this could energize young people in particular. on working-class voters, i think what the president is doing is biden now makes and saying i am delivering what trump promised. it's probably the most effective message we have. >> you said president biden should run on term limits for the supreme court, something a number of people have called for. a growing number of people. how does he connect something like that, that may sound a little bit obscure to voters, and getting them excited about the election and getting out?

>> voters know the court is out of touch with their lives, that the court is taking away their rights, taking away women's rights to control their own body, taking away student relief in terms of student loans. the president forgave the loans and then the supreme court took that money away. they see these justices and feel the ethical conflicts and say their enough with it. let's have a clean slate. this is something the president's own commission has recommended. >> you called for term limits. former speaker nancy pelosi has called for term limits. as you said, number of people who are not even democrats. you have stopped short of calling for court expansion, which a lot of progressive groups have been calling for. as we have seen these ethics violations and all of the rulings recently, have you rethought that at all? >> i said everything should be

on the table but i was recently watching the fdr miniseries and saw that even fdr had trouble with it, and so it is not an easy thing to do. often people see it as polarizing or partisan and i guess term limits is an easier first step that would reform the court -- calling for term limits and a judicial code of conduct, of ethics. even republicans in congress, if we go out and have someone buy us lunch, the vast majority of us would have to disclose it. i am just flabbergasted that the supreme court does not have any of those. >> you are absolutely right. the limits are so low for members of congress. anybody who works in the government. your fellow congress member has called for chief justice john reports to be subpoenaed by congress. would you support that? >> i would support hearings. i think the chief justice should testify. i have met the chief justice. i met him a couple years ago and he said he cared about the religious me of the court, the

legitimacy of democracy. if he cares about the legitimacy of democracy he should come testify. in past times, supreme court justices would meet with members of the senate. it used to be common. part of the problem is they are so cloistered and so out of touch they don't have a sense of what life is like so my plea to him would be for the good of democracy, come testify. >> if he doesn't, would you support getting a subpoena? >> i would refer to what the senate committee decides and i defer to senator schumer on that. >> let's talk a little bit about student loans. in the wake of the supreme court decision, the administration announced some steps including repayment plans tied to income, but they did not announce a pause or an extension of the pause. do you think the plan they have announced is enough, or did you

like to see them do more? >> it is a good first step, but they can and should do more. i had student loans growing up. i was fortunate to be able to pay them back, over hundred thousand. i don't think they should be forgiving loans for people like me who have done well, but we are talking about folks who are largely from working-class and middle-class families. under the highest education act, they should at least stop the interest payments. people who were promised this relief should not be having their interest accrued and they should extend the pause. under the higher education act, even with the debt relief deal, they are able to have another pause and i think that would show voters around the country that we are fighting for them. >> as you look to 2024 and as someone who has been very outspoken on progressive issues, what is your biggest concern looking ahead to 2024?

is there a message you would like to hear more from democrats or even the president to get people more excited about the election? >> two concerns. one, let's not take young voters for granted. they are never going to vote for donald trump or desantis, but we need them as energized as they were in 2020. the issues they care about our climate, the willow glen issue was a mistake, in my opinion. we've got to do far more than climate and fight for student loan relief so they know we are actually trying to improve their lives. the second thing i would say is what the president did in chicago. when trump ran around the country saying communities have been left out, people were wrong you know what? they were wrong. some of those places have not come back. but the president needs to say he is the one after 40 years who is writing the ship, who is bringing manufacturing back, was standing up for the working class. may have expressed grievances, but he is delivering and i think those two messages

combined will give him a decisive victory in 2024. >> congressman ro khanna, thank you so much for your time today. next, i take a walk with one of the most progressive voices. what is that play in the 2024 presidential race. plus california governor gavin newsom reflects on his daily routine as an elected official. w evolved form, we carry that spirit with us. because you can take alfa romeo out of italy. but you best believe, you can't take the italy out of an alfa romeo. okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. together we provide nutrients to support immune,

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used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez has made her mark in washington since being sworn into office in january of 2019. at that time, she was both the youngest woman and youngest latina to ever serve in congress. she has become a progressive voice people look to for guidance and reaction both in the capital and across the country. i got to chat with her recently about how she has made accountability a key part of

her mission as an elected official. here is a part of that conversation. you are in the minority in congress for the first time since were elected. it seems like you're kind of having fun being a bit of an agitator. are you enjoying that role? >> i think that holding those in power accountable is a fundamental part of our role, and part of a role that i draw on from my history in advocacy and organizing and activism, but it is also one that we can propose solutions while holding people accountable for the petitions they are making. so yeah, i think it has been an important role to play. >> you are also a politically astute observer. there is a presidential race happening right now. donald trump people think [indiscernible] is the easiest person for joe biden to run against.

the easiest potential republican nominee, i should say. >> i think there is something to be said about that. the dynamics of these races change from day-to-day. i think governor desantis has made some very large, critical errors, and i think he is weaker than -- >> what are the biggest errors, you think? >> well, you can't out trump trunk, and that is what he is really been trying to do. his attacks on teachers, on schools, on lgbt americans, i think go way too far in the state of florida, and i think that they are a profound political miscalculation and in overcompensation. he may be trying to win a base, but that base belongs to donald trump, and he has sacrificed, i think, the one thing that others may have thought would make him competitive, which is this idea that he would somehow be more rational than donald

trump, which he isn't. >> you are very familiar with surprising people and winning a primary. is there anyone in the republican field you would disagree with completely on policy issues but you think maybe they have something or maybe they could take on trump? >> i think in the house i see the dynamics and the political dynamics in the house very often mirror some of the political dynamics happening out in the country, and i think right now, the republican party is so disorganized that i really don't see someone that can unite that party even beyond donald trump, and so, to be honest, i don't, because the individuals that have wanted to appeal to people's cooler senses in the party have all been driven out. every republican voted for impeachment is no longer there, so i really struggle to find anybody that can both

accomplish that task and unite their party. >> i don't know if you like this or not, you've developed a reputation as a firebrand. what do people get wrong about you, or not know about you? >> i think very often, when i meet with colleagues or individuals i have not met with before, they are surprised that i do my homework a lot. i know when i had my first hearing -- >> are you a little nerdy and people don't know this? >> a little? it's like when i have my first hearing with michael cohen, people were surprised that i tried to ask substantive questions. i think there is this idea that you somehow cannot both be an effective communicator and

discuss and challenge the bounds of our political imagination on substantive grounds. i think you can do both and i think you should do both. >> i know you're not going to talk about 10 to 15 years from now, but in five years are you going to be in congress? >> maybe. you know, i have always tried to approach my service in a way of what i think would be best for people, and if it would be best for me to continue my service, then i will. if it is best for me to continue my service in a different form, then i hope to do that, as well. so, if you were not in congress , because you are passionate about a lot of things, what would you be doing? >> before i ever even thought about being in congress, i have always been passionate about teaching and writing, so maybe i would have been a teacher.

>> thank you to congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez for spending some time with me. more of my conversation with the congresswoman can be found on msnbc.com. next, governor gavin newsom shares the advice he would've given to himself before he was ever elected to office. i got an opportunity to hop on a tour bus to chat with two members of the band, the avett brothers. brothers. their long-term goals. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions for you, right? (fisher investments) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money, only when your clients make more money? (fisher investments) yep. we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. >> woman: why did i choose safelite? i love my electric car, so when my windshield got cracked,

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governor gavin newsom has been a key player in california politics for about two decades now. before he was elected as governor, he served as lieutenant governor. before that, he was mayor of san francisco. there has been some long- running speculation about his potential to be a democratic presidential candidate one day but he has recently gained attention for how he is pushed back against right-wing policy. just this week, the governor was in boise, idaho, where he quote, worked rooms like a democratic candidate without a national office. i recently got some insight into his ongoing red state tour when i spent the day with governor newsom in alabama and when he quickly shut down the suggestion he could be a possible presidential contender in 2024, he had a lot of other interesting things to say, particularly how he is hoping

his pac can help challenge gop leaders in other states. so you are rolling up your sleeves. you are putting money in. the democratic party is a huge umbrella. you have strong views on abortion rights, gun safety, on lgbtq plus rights in the range of other issues. when you are looking for candidates to support, are there certain bars they have to meet, certain positions they have to have? >> the fundamentals i use matter a lot. i'm looking for people of character, organizations that practice care and compassion, but i'm not looking for a litmus test. i've been on the right side of that with my party. i've been asking for forgiveness half my life with the democratic party because it's too much too soon. by the way, i disagree with that many parts, one body. the idea we have to have a peer litmus test is not part of the

lived reality. >> there is a great democratic candidate here or more who was a democrat, with you on healthcare, on lgbtq rights, but maybe was not quite where you are on guns. that's okay. >> absolutely, and so should everyone watching. are we that full of ourselves that we have to have everybody aligned to our unique perspective? everybody has a different set of eyes, different experiences, different backgrounds, different conditions that defined the terms of engagement but there are some universal values that define the party, and i think that is where we are really looking, building the party and institutions. i think more than falling in love with a candidate is building organizational muscle memory. >> over 20 years, looking back, what is the one big piece of advice he would have given to yourself before your ever in elected office? >> two things.

seek first to understand before you are understood, and there is humility in that. at the same time, back to the notion of conviction and intentionality. learn from yourself. learn from, don't follow others. i spent too much time trying to be like somebody else, trying to be like my hero, my mentor, and i think we all fall into that trap and it's a wonderful thing, but learning from, not following others allows you to express yourself with your own unique circumstances and backgrounds, and at the end of the day, i think the one universal here, be authentic. like tell me seriously, why are you here. people can see through it. they feel it in authenticity and i think all of us are prone to having people think we are inauthentic.

we are in a business where we are so quick to dismiss. >> as you reflect on what you have learned here from talking to these legislators, either different ways you're going to talk about issues like gun violence and the need for gun safety measures or abortion rights? is there a messaging and language issue, or is it more -- you say the same thing to everybody and there are more people with you then you think? >> the one thing i heard from everybody today is that they're so upset about desantis and so upset about the anger industry that surrounds the republican party. i don't even like to say his name, tucker carlson or the other -- they are all the same and what they are doing to divide the country. >> do you occasionally turn on fox and see what happens? >> no, not occasionally. every night. >> every night, and do you think democrats should still be appearing on fox or should they not be appearing? >> it contributes to the mental health crisis in the state so

on the basis of personal conditions i would not recommend it. my staff has white literally tried to have interventions with me about it. they say i'm too upset with it, but i need to understand it. >> you need to know what the other side thinks? >> i don't want to know what they think. i need to see the patterns. >> in texas, governor abbott. is he on your agenda? >> criminalizing doctors all in the name of freedom, one of the worst crime and murder rates in america and one of the worst mental health rates of any governor in america? i'm not so convinced about the merits of his leadership. how can the democratic party some of the top 10 dependents state that for bed are red states. the life expectancy in the south, and they are not expanding medicaid and prenatal

care it's jaw-dropping how they'll continue to get re- elected. it's beyond me. the mortality -- if you care about life then you look at life expectancy. you care about life in you having kids that are gunned down by weapons of war, spare me, all in the name of freedom as your banning books so again with all due respect, we should not be on the defensive. the republican party should be on their heels, not us. >> governor newsom is one of a number of democratic governors a lot of people will be watching over the coming years. coming up, numbers of the avett brothers explain how they navigate political differences and commonalities while on tour and as part of their everyday lives in their weekend routine. ♪ ♪ gain scent beads keep even the stinkiest stuff smelling fresh. ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists.

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♪ what a wonderful world. ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for asthma - because breathing should be beautiful. we are living in a time where misinformation is coming from the fact rafters and we need to bring you the facts every night. sometimes we lose sight of this, but we live in a very large country with lots of people and a lot of different points of view, and those

differences, especially now, can feel incredibly polarizing, but there are still some things despite our many differences that draw people together, like music. for over 20 years, the band, the avett brothers, have toured across the country bringing their music to a multi-general shall fan base. recently i had a chance to talk with the bands bassist and chalice. we discussed touring life in the commonalities in america avc from onstage. >> thank you guys so much for meeting up with me before your show. >> let's see the magic happen here.

>> i have done this enough times where i can eyeball this now. it takes a commitment to make coffee this way, which is why most people don't. it takes a long time. >> you spent a fair amount of time on this bus, or buses like it. does it begin to feel like him? >> this is home. more home sometimes than home does. >> touring exposes you to such a broad swath of people across the country. what have you observed over these years about the commonalities in america as you have been touring? >> just the visual aspect of being on stage and looking out, right? that is something that many people get to experience, and i feel like we are very fortunate to be able to be up there looking out on a crowd of people and see everyone smiling. when you see this thing where music is this unifying force, you know, in 2012 i remember looking out and you could see the crowd a good way, but in

the first three rows, 2012, there was a guy wearing the obama hope shirt and then maybe in front of joe, where joe is playing, there was a guy wearing the don't tread on me get one flag representing the tea party. >> i live in a split community, and the person who says hey man, you dropped your wallet, or the person you hold the door for, or the person you're dealing with, the people in your community, your kids' friends at school, their teachers, the people you deal with on a daily basis, it doesn't feel polarized. i think what happens is when we go to our phones or we go to the television, that is social media. that takes you to a different world. it's radicalizing in different

ways. >> other issues -- put the politics aside -- that you care about as human beings, that you watch and you worry about progress being made are not being made on? >> i feel like each of us, every citizen is a special interest group of one, and so look. crawford house, what's important to us? healthcare is important obviously. schools. our kids go to public school. education. public schools are a big issue but now it is guns. our children's safety and i think the superseding issue for me personally is democracy. if we don't have a stable democracy, we have nothing. we can't do anything. >> what about you? >> unchecked gun violence. equal rights, voting rights, and mental health. >> you both mentioned gun violence. i'm not going to ask you to analyze the politics of it, but culturally, why do you think there's such a disconnect on this issue? >> we are all brands on social media, and the brand can be

mistaken as an identity, and i think guns, for some people, and i want to tread just really lightly here, but i think guns have become part of our identity. >> like a cultural pride. >> it's not the guns. it's the, this is mine. and it's not just guns. you take many people people would say this is mine. you're not taking this from me and i think we just hit these moments where technology is changing and the world is changing and people get confused and they cling to things and we're just hoping we are going to have to work through the country. i think something we're missing in the conversation and the greater conversation that social media is nuance. it has all become this i am on this tim. they are on this team, and we are going to fight

in the middle and go back to our team regardless of who wins or loses. >> joe is right. people don't see nuance or maybe they don't want to see it. they want to be on a team, but nuance is everything. context is everything. >> my thanks to joe kwan and bob crawford and the entire avett brothers for showing me around their tour bus and reminding us of the power of music to unite us all. rchers ce underwater flourish. ♪ i brought in ensure max protein with 30g of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. uh... here i'll take that. -everyone: woo hoo! ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein, one gram of sugar. enter the nourishing moments giveaway for a chance to win $10,000. choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - giveaway for a chance to win 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine

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that does it for me today. be sure to follow the show on twitter, tiktok, and instagram, and you can now listen to every episode of the show as a podcast for free. follow the show and listen anytime on the go. we will be back here next sunday at noon eastern but stay where you are because there is much more news on msnbc ahead. . this is dateline. it has been a mystery for more than 30 years. who took amy?