you think may help with amy's case please call 440871 if you have any information you think may help with amy's case please call 440-871-1234. investigators are offering a $50,000 reward for information that leads to an arrest and conviction. >> that is all for this edition of dateline. i am andrea canning. thank you for watching. he was so good at understanding how to comfort other people. >> he was counseling women who were very vulnerable. >> a popular pastor, hiding something wicked. >> they found text messages. i love you, i can't wait to see you. it was like somebody put a hole right through your heart. >> lust, lies, adultery. was there more? >> there was blood everywhere. >> there was something fishy. >> you have a pattern of behavior. >> just how far ahead this man of god fallen? >> you have a wolf in sheep's

clothing. it was the minister. ♪ ♪ >> the man of the cloth, inspiring from the pulpit. burying the faithful periods he officiated over my son. >> counseling over the troubled. >> he was so good at understanding how to comfort other people. >> what if the minister is expected to be not a man of god at all? >> the minister role? >> the minister role. he was hiding behind that hat. >> a stranger in robes, caring got the devils business. >> i believe he prayed on

vulnerable people. >> laying on hands where he said it. >> he would -- right into their bedroom. >> just who was he? reverend shermer was a small- town methodist preacher in eastern pennsylvania. >> he was our friend, our confident. just an all-around, good guy. >> he had seen the fresh young pastor going to an accomplished pastor. >> all the things he held my friends with the years. >> he watched his friend raise his family. >> they sang together many, many times. it seemed like the all-american couple. >> my mom and dad were people who love each other, cared for each other.

just a very close family. a deep sadness fell over them in 1979 when a.b.'s wife suddenly died. his daughter recalls their father being over with grief. >> it was a hard year after. >> he was a sad guy? >> life goes on, and their father did meet someone who would become their stepmother. a recently divorced woman named becky who shared his love for running of the outdoors. >> they seemed like they were best friends. they had this closeness. >> betty was loved by everyone. her sister remembers how she made changes are instantly comfortable >> no matter who you were, it was always, hello. you got a hug. everybody got a hug. >> added everything, betty was enormously proud of her grown son.

>> first impressions count, what was your first impression of a.b. schirmer? >> he was a pastor, so i had respect for him right away. >> in fact, it was the reverend, his stepfather, who officiated at his wedding. he had embrace his new wives big family. they were thrilled with happiness after coming out of a long marriage that had soured. betty's mother was just delighted that her father had find such a fine, upstanding man. >> he was so nice. >> with this fresh chapter in his life, a.b. took a new posting as the pastor of the readers united methodist church. it was about two hours away from his old church. nate said his mother was homesick first. >> she was upset initially. just being so far away from not only myself, but also the rest of her family, as well.

>> he says betty found comfort in a.b.'s congregation. they were happy to welcome her. the always fun and happy pastor's wife. >> she was always doing something. >> samantha had attended sunday school at the church from the time she was knee-high. she remembers how close the pastor and his wife use to be. >> the church members would say, oh, betty and a.b. don't do anything apart. they are always together. >> that is how life went for the next years. death was stalking the pastor yet again. >> we came down the road and spotted a vehicle. >> it was a warm july night, sometime close to 2:00 a.m. stanley dickerson and his girlfriend were driving down the road when they noticed a pt cruiser off the show dirt, jammed against the guardrail. >> there was smoke. we slowed up next to the

vehicle. being so dark and with the windows being up, we couldn't tell what was going on inside. >> dickerson got out of his car he knocked on the driver side to see if he could help. the man rolled down the window, it was a.b. schirmer. >> he said, i'm fine. i don't think my wife is. i think my wife is hurt. >> when he turned on the light, there was a blood everywhere in the car. >> betty was like in the passenger seat, shivering and covered in blood. the pastor appeared to be in shock, staring blankly. >> i said, what are you doing? he said his wife had a problem with the mouth. may be a toothache. he had to bring her to the hospital. that is what he was doing out in the road early in the morning. >> dickerson called 911. they needed an endless fast. >> the car hit a guardrail. she seems to be hurt pretty bad. >> emts arrived within minutes. betty was taken to the national

trauma center. -- rushed away to her bedside, totally unprepared for what he would find. >> it was shocking. she was in very bad shape? >> i wasn't expecting her to look as bad as she did. >> could you even recognize her, nate? >> no, i couldn't. >> that bad? >> that bad. yes. >> betty schirmer was on life support and her family was being summoned. >> coming up -- >> as you touched her hand, with her fingers giving anything back? >> no, none. i whispered in her ear that i love her. i hope she could hear me. >> add -- betty's bedside, everyone was in tears.

according to her son, everyone except her husband. >> no crying, no praying. anything like that. >> when dateline continues. ti would make her skin so uncomfortable. i was always so itchy especially when i was hot. now my skin doesn't itch as much. now we're staying ahead of her eczema. there's a power inside all of us to live our passion. and dupixent works on the inside to help heal your skin from within. it helps block a key source of inflammation inside the body that can cause eczema. so, they can have clearer skin and less itch. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don't change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. healing from within is a wonderful thing. ask your child's eczema specialist how dupixent can help heal their skin from within.

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♪♪ she had always been there for them. betty's mom and most of her eight brothers and sisters had gathered at her bedside. she looked all tubes, bandages, swollen bruising. >> we were all in shock. it was just horrible. >> betty's youngest sister was at her bedside in intensive care. just two weeks before, they had celebrated the birthday they shared. they said their goodbyes after a nice lunch. >> you remember what the last words were? >> that we had to make sure we keep doing this, every year on our birthday. and that she loves us. [ crying ] >> her only son, nate, got to the hospital as fast as he

could, bringing a holiday photo of his mom and happier times. mother, son, and grandson. >> she looked so happy. i had placed that in her hand to hold. >> were her fingers giving anything back? >> no. >> i put the picture in her hand, whispered that i love her. hope she could hear me. >> a solemn vigil began, a life -- amid intensive care. >> hugging, crying together, saying some prayers. >> at the hospital, betty's husband of seven years seems to the family at times, oddly distant. perhaps they thought he was still in shock. after all, he walked away virtually unscathed from the car crash and left his wife on life support. >> no crying, no praying,

anything like that. >> his daughter from his first marriage remembered his father behind himself with grief. >> he was upset. he was sobbing with one of betty's sister, sobbing. >> according to official reports, the pastor said he was doing about 50 in his pt cruiser in the air for that happened. a dear he said had darted out into the road and he swerved into the guardrail. betty slammed into the windshield. they noted that the airplanes had deployed. >> i question a.b.. would you mean she didn't have her see but on? she always wears it. >> betty, moments before the crash, had made the decision to unbuckle her bill. less than 24 hours after she'd been rushed to the hospital, she died. nate's mother was gone, the

mother who built sand castles, taught him how to ride his bike. nate loved his mother so much. >> i was overwhelmed with grief, crying. i was hoping to hear something, but there was nothing there. >> giving the pastor's account of a relatively high speed crash and the arriving officers, the coroner ruled betty's death an accident caused by severe head injuries. there would be no autopsy. betty had told nate that her mother wanted to be cremated. it was the next day. very quick >> at the funeral, a b selected -- >> he picked out one with a deer on it. >> a deer? >> a deer that sent them into the guardrail and caused the

car accident? >> yeah. >> odd choice, but nate reminded himself that his mother loved nature. they jogged together at parks. a.b. said she always enjoyed seeing the deer. that's help them take care of the funeral arrangements. her daughter, samantha, who was 16 at the time, remembers it well. >> the morning of the service, i went over early and was helping her with, you know, last minute details. >> the church was packed as people rode to -- the late becky. nothing was heard from the pastor a.b. schirmer. he sat in the pews and listened. he presided over so many funerals, but told friends that this was one he couldn't bear to speak at. in the receiving line, the preacher stood next to his stepson nate. one of them was cindy.

>> he said, nate, i would like to introduce you to my church secretary. this is cindy. he said to me, we have a little inside joke between us. it is at the church year. he said, i go by a.b., and she is known as c. d. then they said abcd, then kind of chuckled about it. >> i thought that was kind of odd at the time. >> nate wondered about the relationship between the pastor's assistant, sidney's daughter had questions of her own. she noticed her parents drifting apart in the months before the accident. >> did your mom seem different? >> yes, she seemed much more distant. >> her father, joe, who struggled with alcohol, has steadied his self on the foundation of the church. he even made a desk for the pastor's maker office. >> it had three crosses on the front.

>> now, he was back hitting the bottle. was the growing distance between cindy and her husband the reason why she and her boss, the reverend a.b. schirmer, seemed to spend so much time together. >> she needed somebody to talk to. you know? what better than your pastor. >> samantha would suit wonder whether the pastor's ministry was not so much godly as a was in person. ♪ ♪ coming up, samantha plays teenage detective. the surprise of what she finds. >> i went to my mom's phone and found text messages. >> things like? >> i love you. i can't wait to see you. you look very nice today. i'm sorry, that isn't normal. >> when dateline continues. e your living space. with two times the natural essential oil it's time to raise your fragrance expectations.

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♪♪ in the weeks after the death of the pastor's wife in a car accident, samantha wondered why her mother was spending so much time with her boss, the reverend a.b. schirmer. what in the road was going on? >> i was looking through my mom's phone. i found text messages. >> things like? >> i love you. can't wait to see you. you look very nice today. i'm sorry, that isn't normal. >> even at 16, samantha knew it wasn't right for her mother to

be -- with a recently widowed pastor. she became explicit. she decided to set things right by confronting her pastor in a roundabout way, using a fake email address, she wrote one of those, i know who you are and know what you are doing kind of messages. >> i basically said that someone knew what was about was going on and that he should stop, or is going to take it to the church. at that point, i didn't want to cause an uproar. is one of my family back. >> it didn't take the pastor long to figure out that is assistant, sidney's daughter, was behind it. samantha was summoned to a meeting in the pastor's office. her, the reverend, and her mother. >> how tough is that? >> very, very difficult. i had to just keep my mouth shut. >> two great authority figures in your life telling you you are out of line? >> yeah.

>> yeah, we are just friends, how dare you? >> samantha didn't believe a word of what she is being told. she has suspicions of the affair with her mother and pastor. >> at that point, i didn't have any other choice. i wasn't going to tell my dad. a cut and at that point. >> she could only protect her dad for so long. when sidney and a.b. went on a day trip together, joe got wind of it. >> he called me like, what is going on? what's going on with a.b. and your mother? what do i say? at that point, he was like, he said, is she in love with him? i said, i think so. >> joe waited in the driveway for them to return and confronted both his wife and a.b.. samantha's mother came clean, telling her husband what she

felt an emotional attachment to the pastor, the relationship had not yet turned physical. >> she said, i will try to work on things. my dad was trying his hardest to work on things, get the marriage back on track. >> joe no longer trusted his wife of 18 years. his sister, rose, found out later that he was monitoring sidney's every move. >> he was tracking her telephone messages, how long she was talking, what number she was talking to. >> joe didn't like what he saw. >> there she was, calling him. >> yeah. >> joe drove his daughter out to the horse farm for a talk >> i was young, i didn't know what to tell him. at that point, i think he just knew things were going to work out. >> for a man who struggled with

depression, the world was becoming an even darker place. >> at that point, -- was very important. my belief is thought his wife was going to leave him. without his family, he wouldn't have any reason to live. >> the next afternoon, samantha says her mother called her in a panic. the pastor told sydney he threatened to kill not only himself, but maybe samantha and her brother, too. >> she told me that my dad had taken it out of his dresser and taking it to work. >> she instructed her not to go home that night, that she might be in danger. the 16-year-old didn't know what to think. she had always been a daddy's girl, loved him beyond measure. she obeyed her mom and took refuge at an aunt's house.

>> he keeps calling sydney and begging her, you know i would never hurt you or the kids. you know that. >> we can only imagine the storm that was in his mind on the night of october 20th, 2008. alone, brutal, he drove to the methodist church, smashed a rock into a glass panel to the rear door of the church, said down in the reverence chair and took out his gun. >> he said at the desk that he made? >> is it possible he was going to kill the pastor? >> yes, or at least threaten him. >> but the pastor wasn't coming. sydney apparently warned a.b.. he went out of town. >> he went to a motel. >> who knows how long joe sat in the chair before he pulled the trigger? they found him the next morning

slumped, the bullet had gone through his skull and deflected off the upper part of a window frame. joe sister knew something terrible had happened when her husband walked into her office that morning. >> said, what? how could that happen? it is like someone just put a hole right through your heart. i just couldn't believe anything like that could happen. >> sydney broke the news to samantha and her brother. >> your dad decided he didn't want to be any anymore. my brother said, where did he go? it didn't sink in. then she said, your father took his life. >> at the office in the church? >> yeah.

>> what a dramatic statement that was? >> yeah. definitely the biggest statement. >> her father was on the verge of filing a formal complaint with the church that could get a.b. schirmer fire. he didn't believe a suicide note, but there was one thing he wanted people to know. >> he put all the cell phone records, the contact for the bishop of the church, and his -- under my bed. >> so kind of his case he was building against the pastor? >> yeah. >> rose they do need to see inside his briefcase to understand what had happened. she said cindy shamelessly told her about the love triangle. >> i watched her face. i felt like she was the woman that was awakened in some way that had not ever felt that before in my life.

>> rose could not believe it. >> this is a pastor. he can't step back and with the two of them work it out? he can't help himself? how could he do this? >> the pastor was about to face more than the crime of the heart. >> i was afraid that they should investigate him to find out if he's done this to other people. >> she set in motion an investigation that could not only get him bounced, but could also potentially put the preacher away for a very long time. had he broken not only the seventh commandment, the one about adultery, but the sixth commandment, as well? the one for bidding murder? coming up -- >> he has no conscience. he doesn't care about anything but his own self.

>> row starts digging into the pastor's past and is stunned by what she discovers. >> there were things that make the hair on the back of your neck stand up. >> that is when dateline continues. pilling, and stretching. so you can wear them as long as you love them.

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cindy seemed to be moving on very quick after the suicide of her husband, joe, in late october 2008. her family said it wasn't two weeks before she packed up her belongings and went to the

salvation army. the pastor's assistant was now free to be with the man she loves. he had been a widower since losing his wife in a car wreck that summer. cindy's daughter samantha says her mom and a.b. picked up together just days after her dad suicide. >> my mom went away the next weekend to go see him. to be hurting, have just lost her father, and have your mom go off, visiting her lover, i guess. >> joe's sister, rose, the onetime counselor, tried not to judge her sister-in-law. she was head over here split the pastor. still, she thought he had a lot of explaining to do, like why hadn't he called the police when he threatened to kill himself and possibly even his family?

>> when you threatens someone's life, or your own, you supposed to call the authorities. >> a said, being a pastor, he didn't even do that? >> instead, he left them to spiral out of control. rose was haunted by thoughts of her brothers final act. >> he pulled it. he couldn't stand the pressure. i felt really bad when he sat in the room by himself. i know how much his guts were turned inside out. >> rose was determined to give her dead brother a voice. seven days after, she drafted a letter of complaint. he had violated his pledge to be a man of god, she wrote, and asked that he be held accountable for his negligence. >> my aunt simply wanted investigated. there is something fishy when a pastor of the church has an affair.

>> rose says he didn't even try to defend himself. he resigned from the church. >> he was a broken man when they left her office. >> and he was done with the church? >> he had to get it within a certain amount of time. he wasn't supposed to talk to anybody. not make contact with them or anything. he was just supposed to leave, and that was it. >> there was one churchgoer, he couldn't stay away from. samantha's mother. months after, the onetime river and was dropping by her house for dinner. >> you didn't like him? >> i felt as if my family was invaded. >> before samantha knew it, dinners are turning into overnight stays. >> he started bringing overnight bags.

that is on panic really said in for me. >> samantha would later view a.b. with the scouts were spending more and more time with her dead brother's family. >> i think he had no conscience. he doesn't care about anything. >> what he did know is that roast is hadn't ratted him out to the church, a few days after she milked that letter, she made a call to the police. she had a conch, she told investigators. not about her brother suicide, but about the car accident that killed the pastor's wife. she said it was cindy who had originally told her about the accident that killed betty, the pastor's wife. >> he was taking her to the hospital, than a deer ran out. i said, the d dear hit the car?

she said, no. i said, oh. >> the story of the car accident struck her as odd. the more she uncovered, the more suspicious she began. >> there were things that were very disturbing. they make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. >> one of the cups -- >> i immediately thought, i need to look at this. >> the patrolman's report seemed cut and dry, that she had died after hitting her head. betty's husband, reverend -- a.b. schirmer. they had given a specific account of the trash. >> he told a very similar story that he told the officer. but he put a major twist on it.

to try to justify, i believe, the severe injuries that she sustained. he made it sound that the vehicle spun out of control and that she went flying because she was unrestrained. all of a sudden, there is a tear, you swerve. 45 minutes away, who doesn't know anything about himself, that would be normal. >> and you were taking the account of the methodist minister? >> that's correct. >> they have photos from the crime scene. when he pulled them up, he immediately noticed they did match the story told by the pastor. the car was only minimally banged up. the airbase hadn't even deployed. it turned out the officer who had written a the report got that important detail wrong. and the department wondered why they didn't see any tire marks

on the road. >> there should have been, and there weren't. >> through his eyes, there were zero evidence indicating a high- speed wreck occurred. sheets of their multiple skull fractures and two huge gashes on her head. it just didn't fit for the detective. >> there is no way they would sustain the kind of head trauma. >> coming up, investigators noticed something else about the quarters. >> the impact was so minor that they didn't go out flying all over the place. >> and it wasn't just the corns the didn't seem to add up. >> i got to a photograph of the button seat. i immediately noticed it doesn't make sense. i had a moment where it is, oh my god.

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it was hard to believe that this search in the poconos had become the setting for a murder investigation. james wagner was diving into the late-night car accident, wondering why pictures of the supposedly high-speed crash

didn't seem to match the account of the driver, reverend a.b. schirmer, whose wife had died. the passenger who called 911 the night of the accident to see if he had any further information that might help explain the discrepancies. >> by looking at the car, they didn't seem to be any real damage. >> the good samaritan impression confirmed with the consecutive detective conference. it seemed way out of torsion to the minor fender bender. >> she was shivering, not really conscious. >> he believed thinking it was strange that the passenger was staring at the windshield, making no effort. >> he made no attempt to get out the car. that is something you would expect. someone who was with their wife who was potentially dying. >> even more unusual, detective wagner relied the reverend

waited on them to dial 911. he could've called himself. >> never made a 911 call. >> wagner kept looking at the photos. >> i got to a photograph of the blood in the seat. i immediately noticed it doesn't make sense. i had one of those moments where , oh my god. this is it. >> betty's car seat was splattered with blood. the detective thought it shouldn't have been. if she was initially injured while ceding in the seat, how did it get -- >> if she sustained the woman in that crash, she would have been bleeding on her self. from her body, her legs, and her but in that seat. >> the only logical way to explain the blood, the detective thought, was if she had been injured and bleeding before she got into the car. >> what i saw as evidence that told me immediately that it had

nothing to do with the deer and slamming into the windshield. >> absolutely not. >> as the investigation was ramping up, members were wrestling, reliving her final days. things just weren't added up. >> i could tell there was something was wrong. i just couldn't put my finger on it. >> the stepfather had given him his well after the funeral. type inside it was a posted note. >> it said for all the pain of cause you, i'm sorry. free to soar, truly free. the word free was underlined. >> what is going on?

>> obviously, there was something going on behind closed doors. no one else was aware of it. >> they were taken aback by what they saw. >> did you see any tears that night? >> never. >> they thought at times he had acted more like a party host. >> just out of the blue, just like this. like they just had a newborn baby or something. >> two months after the accident, he took a.b. out to lunch. she was surprised to find her brother i'm also happy. >> whole time, he was texting. he said, her name is c. d. his name was a.b.. >> did you wonder who this was? >> yeah, she was just having too much fun. >> two other things that out,

things that seemed out of character for their's sister. >> my mom would always say, seatbelts save lives. she would always make sure that i put it on before we would go. >> that it makes sense when he said she was not buckled up? >> i didn't know what to think. that was unlike my mom. >> and then there was a.b.'s petition to have her cremated? >> he said, my mother chose to be cremated. my sister did not agree with it. >> police have been pulled in to help detective wagner with the case. they took a second look at the speed bag. the pastors of the responding officer he was traveling between 50-55 miles an hour when the crash occurred. in one of the accident photos, investigators noticed something odd. when they look at the change holder, almost all the quarters remained neatly in place.

>> the impact was so minor that they didn't go flying all over the place. they were just where they had been. >> correct. >> an expert look at the case, concluding that the pt cruiser speed at the point of impact was maybe half of what he had claimed. >> at the time he collided with the guardrail, it was less than a 25 miles an hour. >> this was a low-speed accident? >> correct. >> investigators believe the pastor staged the accident to cover-up the killing of his wife. five months after, one set of investigators asked to come down to the state police barracks for a talk while a separate team of officers, and crime scene techs headed to take a look around at the place where a.b. had lived with betty. >> as important was putting him under and -- under a roof to know where he was. >> the cops were about to blow

the case wide open. >> where do you think he is? >> he is a sick, sick man. >> do you think he is a killer? >> i do. yeah. >> coming up, a break in the case. >> i walk in the back door, i come up and i immediately noticed blood drops at the post right above the wall. i was shocked. i cannot believe it. >> turns out, there is someone who doesn't think the pastor is a killer. >> i would just say they were what he would expect to see in a motor vehicle collision. >> when dateline continues. for softness and resilience, without the price tag. if you know... you know it's pantene. ♪ (cheery music) - they get it. they know how it works... and more importantly... it works for them. - i don't have any anxiety about money anymore.

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hypocrites. >> is hard to believe that somebody would commit violent crimes such as this. >> in december 2008, about a month after they began reviewing his that -- betty's death, they asked a.b. schirmer to meet with them. he thought he was going to answer questions about the suicide in his church office. investigators had other ideas. >> you bring him in for a sitdown, meanwhile, you will go in and crime tech way to look and see what has happened. >> while he was in an interrogation room, a team of crime scene technician swept into the church. video cameras rolling. they were looking for any evidence that betty had been attacked before she got into the car. a.b. had moved up about a month before, but they were concerned he could still get access. they

scoured every inch of the basement and found nothing incriminating. what they discovered in the garage they discovered was -- >> i walk in the back door, i immediately noticed blood drops near the post right above the stairwell. i was shocked. i cannot believe it. >> do you say, time-out? you guys have got to get in here? >> i did. i called one of the troopers. i said, i have blood here. we could not believe there was visual blood there. >> matches one or two blood drops, wagner could see clusters of blood, visible to the naked eye. it looked to him as if someone had been trying to clean it up. >> i could see evidence. >> it looked deluded. it looked fated, cleanup efforts. >> they sprayed the garage with a criminal -- they said a

ghostly trail of blood appeared, leaving from the back door to where the car would have been parked. >> you could see her already injured. >> physically loaded and put into that passenger seat. >> >> the state trooper never tired was also at the scene. >> of course, and i have to figure out who's blood. >> even before they had that lab confirmation, interviewing schirmer, the pastor, telling of the break through discovery. >> you are saying, we've got blood out here.

>> yes. he first denies that he had blood in the garage, or blood anywhere. when confronted about this blood in the garage, he comes up with a story about how she cut herself moving wood. >> he told police betty had helped them move a pyre of firewood at the garage. he said the step collects -- stack collapsed. sure enough, the investigators did find a pile of wet outside on church grounds. what they found hidden belief would only raise more questions. coming up, did he make a slip during his interrogation. >> that is what i believe he did. >> another wife and another

suspicious accident. investigators dig into details and make a discovery. >> of the case was still pending and undetermined with no outcomes. >> when dateline continues. prime day is coming july 11th and 12th. with two days of epic deals exclusively for prime members, you'll feel like a big deal. ♪ deals from toys to home and kitchen. it's on prime day.

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>> but investigators believed that jules had died after tumbling down a flight of basement stairs. >> i didn't know what had n' happened down there. i needed to find out whether jules' death was suspicious in any way. >> kathy knew the story better than most. a good friend of jules, she was in the pews for most of the tenure in lebanon, pennsylvania. >> how did the congregation receive him? >> great. they loved him. he was reinstated over and over again. >> and a.b. and jules ' daughters remember their parents being devoted not only to the church but to each other. >> did you see little affection, holding hands, caressing? >> yes, ledefinitely. >> and their dad adored them. julie and amy remember how he was the one who got them off to

school in the morning. >> he would come in and say it's time to get up. it we would say okay. >> and yet, beyond their devoted dad, they knew there was a side that his daughters and even most church members did not see. kathy's husband and a.b. were bowling buddies. >> he would . often come home a say what a horrible temper he er had. he said he would kick the aisle where the bulls came back if he bowled badly. >> it was not just the flashes of temper at the bowling alley w that caught the attention. he said that his constant flirting with women was slowing the game down. >> when it was his turn to bowl he wasn't there. >> so the men had a different perspective on a.b.. >> yes. my father, too, was there. he would say something doesn't feel right. >> according to what? >> with a.b.. they would see him with more

than one woman there . that was fishy. >> even at church, kathy noticed that a.b. seemed overly attentive to female members of the congregation. in the months leading up to jules' death, she said there was one woman in particular parishioners were whispering about. >> at that point, one arfemale the church that you would see him with in the corner talking was being taken care of in the church. >> meanwhile, as kathy sighed, > her best friend to was frozen out. >> he never hugged her. i don't know if i ever saw him hold her hand, actually. >> one disappointment towered over the others. for months, joel had been looking forward to a trip to new york city to see the phantom of the opera. she had bought tickets to

surprise a.b., but when the ., time came he announced that he was not going. he had a wedding to officiate. >> did that break her heart when he said he wasn't going? >> pretty much. she called me up and said it is all i want and he is not going to come. so will you come with me? sure. i will. >> during jules' favorite song, kathy remembered jules calling a.b. so he could listen in but she en could not reach him. >> she tried to see him where he was and to tell him, this is the song and i wanted you to be here. he did tonot answer. it was later in the evening and she asked me, do you think that if he did have a wedding and was invited to the dinner afterward, that he would be home by now? i just agreed with her, yes. i would think he would be. >> was the mouse playing while

the cat was away? >> kathy had her suspicions. did you ever talk to jule? >> i did not. i did not. i did not want to hurt her. >> that the whole issue of a.b.'s suspected cheating soon became moot. m not long after that trip to new york city, jules was found sprawled at the bottom of the th basement steps in the parsonage with a vacuum cleaner cord wrapped around her leg. a.b. told the emt he discovered her when he came back from running. jule was taken to the e.r. en with multiple fractures to her h skull. kathy immediately went to tuthe hospital. >> counted sheila? >> terrible. her head was all wrapped up with gauze. >> her daughters kept vigil at their mother's bedside.

>> i guess you knew there would not be a good outcome. >> yes. a pretty much got that feeling. i still pray for a miracle. >> there would be no miraculousd recovery for the 51-year-old wife and mother. jules' injuries were insurmountable. julie and amy remember their father falling apart when the decision was made to turn off life support. >> i remember it was a sunny day and he said it was a beautiful day but it was not a beautiful day, and he wanted his wife back. for some reason that just really sticks out in my mind, because i think it was the way it was said. he was just so sad. >> jule was buried and mourned by the congregation. some people said the church was never quite the same without jule behind the organ. she and her sister told a.b. how much they missed her. >> we talked about how sad it

is that she is not there , and we miss all the music and everything that she did. his statement to us was, well, you will just have to get over it. >> the reverend apparently took his own advice. two years later he decided thate it was time to move on. a new chapter of his life with a new parish in the poconos and a new wife, betty. kathy met her just one time. >> i was thinking while, maybe she is good for him because jule did not like to jog. he found someone that has his likes. but as i walked away, i thought, wow. already? >> yet the rumors about his first marriage, the fall down the stairs, did not mean much to detective wagner until he to called his counterparts in lebanon with a question. had anyone there ever inquired about jule schirmer 's death? >> they told me that the case was left still pending and

undetermined with no outcome. >> the closer he looked, the more he started to see chilling parallels with betty's death. >> what would the story of the autopsy revealed about how jule schirmer died? coming up -- >> did it role as a homicide? they didn't know. >> but perhaps there was one er person who did know. when dateline continues.

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the reverend schirmer 's second wife betty had succumbed to head injuries in 2008. investigators were curious to learn that so had his first wife. >> you have a pattern of behavior. wives of turn up suspiciously

dead. >> yes. >> mike mancuso found the old jule schirmer case troubling. something just did not add up. >> it is strange that this woman vacuumed these steps twice a week every week for 14 years. one step at a time, nice and slow, then she not only falls but suffered 14 different impacts to the head on her way down. >> according to the authorities, two hours away in lebanon, pennsylvania, an autopsy have been performed a decade before after she was said to have tumbled down a set of basement stairs. the forensic pathologist was dr. wayne ross. >> you did the original autopsy. >> i did. >> what was your opinion about what happened to her? >> traumatic brain injury. >> even back then, there had been doubts that jules' injury and the trauma to her head were consistent with the story of a fall. jules' manner of death had been

listed as undetermined. >> they did not rule that an accident or homicide. they ruled it as we don't know. >> the pathologist have been so concerned about his findings that he suggested authorities take a closer look, but that never happened. a local corner, mistakenly as it turned out, told police that jule had fallen down the stairs after suffering a heart attack. >> they decided to close the investigation. >> a decade later that old case was suddenly very relevant. later in the investigation the prosecutor would make an interesting move. he would ask dr. ross to analyze the records for both women. unlike jule, betty had not been autopsied, but c.a.t. scan images of her brain had been taken at the hospital. the pathologist would be definitive in his conclusions. >> the injuries noted are wholly inconsistent with an

injury where the airbags did not deploy. >> there were two wounds on the side of her head with 3-d models of her skull. >> these two images here are huge. >> dr. ross was convinced that betty had been murdered, and brutally so. >> she has fractures on the right side of her skull and swelling and breathing to her brain. >> what kind of murder weapon with the killer have used? dr. ross had an idea. >> it was my opinion that she had been struck multiple times on her head with an object with a lot of weight to it. a crowbar or something. he was swinging for the fences essentially, and hit her hard at least twice in this area and caused the damage. >> the real stunner, for the

pathologist the injury was eerily reminiscent of that other schirmer case he had seen so long ago. >> there are two lacerations here. oh my goodness. it looked exactly like jule schirmer. >> dr. ross compare the injuries side by side. >> when you compare the two of them, the similarities are striking. the similarities are to the right side of the head on both jule and betty. it is all happening right here on both women. >> in deaf, he thought, they could have been twins. investigators also found what they believed were other similarities. signs of a cleanup. bloodstains from the garage in the poconos and a story of bloodstains at the foot of the basement stairs in the case of jules. back in 1999, detectives learned, her brother had been

so long that the sight of his sister that he went over to see what had happened. he thought the blood had been cleaned up. >> what happened to all the blood? schirmer says the emts stayed behind and cleaned it up. he said that's bull. i ran ambulance. i know that did not happen. schirmer does not respond. >> investigators thought the other big similarity in the two deaths were the rumors about av's behavior with other women. >> you think she is aware? >> hopefully aware. >> the prosecutor thought divorce could've been a problem for the pastor. >> i think it would have maybe been a stain on his reputation. he was very conscious of how he appeared to others. remember, he is up on high and counseling. he is the person every looks up to, so he certainly would not have wanted that. >> when detectives looked at

his computer they saw that he had a secret life. was a part of a motive for murder, a reason to get rid of not one but two wives? >> coming up, a strange pastime for a pastor. >> he was addicted to pornography. >> obsessed with it. >> when dateline continues. rinv l that can dramatically relieve ra and psa symptoms, including fatigue for some. it can stop joint damage. and in psa, can leave skin clear or almost clear. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin cancer; death, heart attack, stroke, and tears in the stomach or intestines occurred. people 50 and older with at least one heart disease risk factor have higher risks.

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he stood before his congregation as a man of the cloth and betty was devoted

husband. but behind parsonage doors, investigators believed that a.b. schirmer had been keeping some dark secrets. for more than a year, a team of investigators have been working to build a case against the former pastor. he said that his friend did not understand why he was being targeted by investigators. >> he told me he did not know why. he said there is nothing there and they won't find anything. >> but investigators thought they were finding plenty. by now they were trying to connect the dots between the death of his second wife betty and his first wife jule and zeroing in on a motive for murder after they examined the hard drive on the reverend's computer. >> obsessed with sex. obsessed with it. thousands of sites. ran the gamut.

>> trooper phil barletta said that the number of his searches was telling. >> he was addicted to pornography, as evident by his computers. addicted to the chase of sexuality. >> as they dug deeper they found emails indicating to them that a.b.'s sexual targets were not virtual, but sometimes very real members. kathy would tell people about his suspected affairs during his first marriage, and there was reason to believe that a.b. had run around on betty, too. >> he would find women who were vulnerable and he would basically counsel his way right into their bedrooms. >> investigator wendy could see

the trail of women extending back for decades. >> there was never a period of this man's life or he has not got some woman on the hook. we look back into the '70s and '80s and you can see the pattern repeating itself over and over again. >> but even if the pastor was a chronic philanderer, as investigators thought, why was that a reason for killing his wives? it seemed he had been cheating on them for years. why resort to murder? investigators thought something must have changed. there was a sense that betty was a troubled woman just before the car accident. >> there was a noticeable lack outgoing with the church that they took note of. >> remember this post it note that the pastor had attached to the birthday card, the son had come upon it during his box of keepsakes. the one that said he was sorry

for the pain he caused her but soon she could sort three. >> how do you read that? >> it can only mean, in this context, that there was an understanding that the marriage was at an end. that was stated to her last birthday, which was the end of june, 2008. she was ashes by july 17th. >> but still, they had to wonder if they believe the pastor had staged a car crash. why? maybe they theorize that the timing had to do with things. what if she had asked the pastor for a potentially career- crushing divorce? >> he is man of the pulpit. he is a man of the cloth. he does not want to jeopardize it. a breakup of his marriage, he could not tolerate that. >> the prosecutor thought that cindy's affections for the

pastor were maybe becoming dangerously apparent. >> she was infatuated with the reverend. just mentioning his name a big smile would come across her face. >> two days after betty's car accident, cindy sent her condolences to the pastor, signing her email love you. he replied love you, too. the prosecutor was also struck by this photo that he said was taken the weekend of the memorial service. >> newseum and i was smiling. this one photo in particular where he is cooking up a load of scrapple, and he has that look on his face. relaxed and at ease. >> things would get more complicated when cindy's husband joe shot himself, heartbroken that his wife was involved with the reverend. his suicide allowed cindy in the pastor to finally be free together. by going through the records,

they track that increasingly steamy relationship. she said that the credit card receipts revealed rendezvous's in local hotels. >> they were having an intimate relationship. you also see that there are overnight hotel stays and things like that. >> there were also smoldering emails to each other. cindy wrote unimaginable is the only word that even comes close to describing last night. i have occupied this body for 40 some years, and trust me, this is not normal for me. a.b. wrote, i am very hungry for you. your body is fantastic. schirmer even confided in cindy how happy he was with her. he said his relationship with betty have been missing something. for the past two years, we did not have sex, he wrote.

>> he was basically saying she wasn't good anymore, so goodbye betty, hello, cindy. >> it was not only hello cindy, but hello samantha and her little brother. more than a year after joe's suicide, samantha members the pastor being there almost all the time. >> what was he like around the house? >> very moody. he kept to himself. he did not want to be bothered with my brother or i. >> watching from afar, she was distressed by the thought of the pastor living with her brother's dead wife and children. >> the decisions he was making don't add up. you just don't do that. >> later that summer, they announce their engagement.

their daughter samantha was terrified. she called the police, ranting that her mother would become the third late mrs. reverend a.b. schirmer. investigators agreed and decided they could not wait any longer to arrest the former pastor. with what they saw as another potential woman at risk, they decided to make their move. on december 13th, 2010, detective wagner knocked on the front door of cindy's house. >> cindy's son came to the door and i asked him where mr. schirmer was. he said he was in the kitchen. as i started to approach, he ran out the back door and ran right into trooper maynard. >> it appears he was trying to make a getaway. >> it appears so. >> the deepest secrets were about to be revealed to all. he would stand trial in a case that would leave a small pennsylvania town abuzz with

ungodly charges. prosecutors seem to have a strong case. >> when dateline continues. for softness and resilienc wit. if you know... you know it's pantene. [ tires screeching ] jordana, easy on the gas. i gotta wrap this commercial, i think i'm late on my payment. it's okay, the general gives you a break. yeah, we let you pick your own due date. good to know, because this next scene might take a while. for a great low rate, go with the general.

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the prosecutor had no doubt that a.b. schirmer was a dangerous character. >> i believe that he is a sociopathic type of guy who will do whatever he wants to do , and he has. that includes murder. >> in this turn-of-the-century courthouse in the pocono mountains, a.b. schirmer would stand trial for killing his wife betty. he pleaded not guilty to first- degree murder. sitting behind him in the courtroom would be his daughter's. they had no doubt that their dad was innocent. >> you are forcefully behind

your dad. is that right? >> that is correct. >> never had a whisper of a doubt? >> no. >> it had been more than four years since their stepmom had been found bleeding and unconscious. now it was time for a jury to hear the evidence against schirmer and decide whether he was a murderer. a lot of the prosecutors' case was circumstantial. there was no murder weapon, no eyewitness, no confession to the crime. even though the case had challenges, the prosecutor had won a key victory before the trial had even started. the former pastor was not on trial for jules' death, but a prosecutor said that the similarities can be pointed out between how she and betty had died. >> blunt force trauma to the head, brain damage, brain dead. injury patterns remarkably similar from the same type of object, a long, cylindrical object. >> this is a deck of cards being turned over and just replayed.

>> right. >> while the prosecutor would describe the crushing blows that he believed killed both wives, this prosecution would focus on betty. all in all it was tough testimony for betty's family to listen to without going to pieces. >> i could not stop crying. how long did she suffer? >> the prosecutors asked the jury to use common sense about his version of events. he played these computer animations of the car crash. remember that a.b. had told police he had been traveling at around 50 miles per hour when the accident happened. >> at 35 miles per hour the car would completely travel right through the guard rail. >> the prosecutors said the reconstruction proved the pastor was driving slowly when the car struck the guardrail, too slowly for betty to have been fatally injured. they believed that the accident

had been staged by the pastor. a bogus racket would also explain his behavior in the car with no call to 911 and no attempt to aid his injured wife. then there was his inappropriate behavior at the hospital, prosecutors said, like this remark to a nurse. >> he said the defendant said what a pretty woman, betsy was and she had a nice ass, too. >>'s computer was weighted down with searches for . one woman said she had had an ongoing affair with him. the womanizing, the emotional entanglement with his church assistant had added up to a crumbling marriage, the prosecutor told the jury.

a.b., he said, responded the only way he knew how. >> there is an underlying violence within him that comes out. >> violence that had been mapped out in blood on the floor of the parsonage garage. he had a theory about how the crime had occurred. >> she was beaten in the house, beaten to the point of brain death. he takes her and dresses her and carries her. she is only about 100 pounds, out the door and into the garage. >> what happened next, the prosecutor said, became increasingly clear as investigators of the pt cruiser into the garage. they marked pink dots where blood had been found. later, investigators created this diagram that shows a trail of blood leading from the garage door to the passenger side. >> he walks around the side of the car, sets her down, opens the door, puts her in the car,

then he backs out and concoct his little crash. >> but after seven days of testimony was finally the pastor's defense attorney's turn to present his case. brandon rush told the jury that sometimes accidents just happened. he argued that some of the forensic analysis was not based on sound science. the blood evidence in the car, he said, did not even match the prosecution version of events. >> if there was so much bleeding, there should have been blood straight across the entire windshield. >> the defense pathologist told the jury that the head injuries were inconsistent with a blow from something like a crowbar, and that that he had suffered internal injuries consistent with a car wreck. >> this is from the right side of the chest hitting a

dashboard, so there is no explanation for that. >> as for the blood on the passenger seat, the defense maintained that it was not blood from a beating that occurred before she got in the car, as the prosecution charge. >> when you hear that testimony, there was a point in time where her head was actively bleeding. >> the defense attorneys assailed the analysis of the blood in the garage. if a.b. schirmer had in fact cleaned up , the pastor would have done a much better job. would he really have left blood drops in the garage for the world to see? >> he could have really cleaned this up if he wanted to clean it up. it was not cleaned up. >> what's more, he said, the experts had exaggerated the amount of blood found on the garage floor. >> they took photos that were out of focus. >> yes. >> the defense attorney argued that the investigators had been too quick to denounce the

explanation about getting a scratch from the woodpile. they were simply looking at the wrong stack of wood, they said. >> mr. schirmer told him to look in the wood line for the wood . if you look in the background of his own photo, you can see a woodpile in the tree line. >> what's more, the defense attorney maintained that everyone was misconstruing his behavior. his daughters told the jury that it was his work as a reverend that accounted for his demeanor that day. >> he had been a pastor for many people who had gone through tragedy. he is so good at understanding how to comfort other people. >> they said their father was overcome. and remember that photo of him smiling while he cooked scrapple just days after betty was gone? it was far from being evidence

of his indifference to betty's death. >> it is taken out of context. >> in fact, their marriage was strong, argued the defense. >> their relationship seemed good. we were able to establish that there was no problem. >> there were no allegations of violence in that marriage. >> no. >> but remember the post-it note that he had written a apologizing for pain he had caused her? while the prosecutor said the post-it show that the marriage was on the brink, the defense attorney said they were rather the words of a caring husband, one who knew that his job was preventing his wife from seeing her family as much as she would like. >> maybe the reason why he put that in there was simply, i wanted to express to her that i had caused her hardship and pain by having this job.

you are so far away from your children. grandchildren. >> bottom line, argued the defense attorney, abie loved his wife and had no reason to want her dead. >> are we talking about a ton of money from an insurance company? >> there is no life insurance. >> the only thing he was guilty of, they argued, were some all too human mistakes. >> a lot of things that are inappropriate do not make him a murderer. >> you will do the walk of shame but that does not make him a killer? is that your argument? >> right. >> perhaps the best person to argue that was a.b. schirmer himself. he took the stand in his own defense. he turned to face the jury and admitted to having an affair, but he denied killing his wife. his daughters watched. >> how do you think he told his

story? >> i think he was truthful. >> betty's son was less convinced. >> i was full of anger. i know he wasn't telling the truth. >> truth. the finding of facts. that was the job. the time was at hand to see where it had evolved. coming up, the verdict. but first, the prosecution offers one final clue to prove the pastor was a killer. when dateline continues. just visiting a special seent. i can't say who it is, but let's just say she bundled her dream house and her dream car for round-the-clock protection with progressive. oh. she has another house in malibu.

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reverend a.b. schirmer stood accused of a brutal crime, bludgeoning to death his second wife and staging a car accident to cover his tracks. in his closing argument, the

prosecutor tried to expose schirmer, the sinister minister. >> he is kind of like a predator. he will look at people's vulnerabilities and try to get in their heads. >> the prosecutor offered one final clue that he said was a death blow to the pastor's story. look closely at the photos of the accident scene, the prosecutors said. one investigator had noticed something was missing, something that betty would've had with her. >> she goes to the hospital, what should we do? she would grab her purse. i stopped and i said wait a minute. >> it was a crucial prop, the prosecutor argued, that a.b. had forgotten to throw in the car. but the defense attorney in his final statement told the jurors that this was no fake scene. he urged the jurors not to punish the reverend because of his self-confessed sins.

murder, he said, was not on that list. >> they need to focus on the forensics and not the -- buying into the idea that he is a bad person and therefore he did a bad thing. >> now it would be up to a panel of strangers to decide his fate. while the jury deliberated, betty and jule's children waited. a.b. 's stepson was convinced of his guilt, but his daughters were adamantly convinced of his innocence. they had lost their mother and what they now lose their father, too? >> i don't have self-pity, regardless of what happened. >> his fiancee cindy waited anxiously, too, and so to the prosecutor. >> in your line of work, anything can happen. >> absolutely. >> after an hour and a half of deliberation, the jurors had reached a verdict.

betty's family took their seats in the courtroom. then the verdict. guilty of first-degree murder. >> they started crying. >> for betty's family, the moment was bittersweet. fresh waves of grief for her loss and their brother-in-law's betrayal. >> thinking of him sitting at thanksgiving tables and stopping by and seeing the grandchildren was all a front? >> i think it was. >> what did a.b. schirmer do to your family? >> i think it broke our hearts. >> she really cared for that guy. >> on the other side of the courtroom, a.b.'s daughters

could not believe it. >> it is another tragedy to hear that. i was just so sad, just crying and devastated. i still hear it in my head replaying. the verdict. i don't agree. >> i know regardless of what the jury said, that he would never hurt betty. >> how do you feel right now? >> cindy had no comment for reporters. >> no reaction at all? >> she was still standing by her man. >> she still loves him. she has given him $600 a month as long as he has been incarcerated. >> samantha, how do you conjure up a new mother-daughter relationship? >> it simple. she is family.

she gets along with me in every way possible but at the end of the day she is still my mother. >> you love her? >> yeah. >> but who samantha is really living for these days is her late father. she says she dedicates every day to making him proud heard >> everything i do is for him now. i hope he is proud of me. >> in the sense of getting justice? >> yeah. going through everything. going to school. being successful. everything that i wanted to do, he believed i could do it. >> samantha says she has found forgiveness for the man who could not become her new stepdad, but betty's son nate was not there yet. >> i don't think i will be able to say these words. >> who is this guy, nate? >> the sinister minister. he presents himself as a pastor and a man of the community, but

we all know now that there were skeletons in the closet and things going on beyond the scenes. >> a.b. schirmer was sentenced to life in prison without parole. his defense attorney appealed the verdict, arguing, among other things, that the death of his first wife should never have been a part of betty's trial. the pennsylvania supreme court denied his appeal, but as the former pastor was being taken off to jail, prosecutor told deputies he felt strangely calm. >> he could not understand what he felt so relaxed. i know why he felt so relaxed. he had been carrying this thing with him for many years. >> forgiveness is the provenance of the church. justice is the duty of the state. in 2014, a.b.

schirmer , the disgraced pastor, received an additional 20 to 40 years in prison for the murder of his first wife. he pleaded no contest but still insisted he was innocent, saying he took the plea to spare his family the pain of a second trial. detect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic

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♪♪ >> this sunday, the outsider. north dakota's govern our doug burgum is outspending his republican presidential rivals after entering the race just four weeks ago. >> i think the president of the united states has a ♪♪ this sunday, the outsider. north dakota's governer doug burgum is outspending his republican presidential rivals after entering the race just four weeks ago. >> i believe that the president of the united states has a defined set of things they're supposed to work on and it's not every culture, every topic.