munitions. they're running out of that ammunition. it was not an easy decision, and it's not -- we're not signatories of that agreement, but it took me a while to be convinced to do it. >> president joe biden defending his decision to send cluster munitions to ukraine. it comes as there is growing pressure from nato allies to speed up the membership process for the war-torn country. meanwhile, president bide biden is in london this morning. he is meeting now with the uk prime minister. later today, we will sit down with king charles. it's all part of a busy week in europe that includes a nato summit. back here at home, republicans in iowa are making an interesting choice for the date of the 2024 presidential caucuses. we'll have the party's response to questions about that decision. as for the candidates, we'll read from columnist peggy

noonan's new piece on whether trump will soon reach his waterloo. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, july 10th. it's good to be back. >> wonderful to be back. we were gone? i never knew. >> we were gone for a week. we have the host of "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. former aide to the george w. bush state department, elise jordan. and "the washington post"'s david ignatius. pulitzer prize winning historian jon meacham is with us this morning. moments ago, president bide anne rivalled at 10 downing street in london where he was met at the door by united kingdom prime minister rishi sunak. president biden is holding meetings in the morning with the pm ahead of a trip to windsor castle this afternoon. while there, he'll meet with the newly crowned king charles for the first time since he ascended

the throne. this afternoon, the two will participate in a climate engagement at the castle before president biden leaves for the nato summit, beginning tomorrow in lithuania. >> let's go to london right now and get the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire. also, white house bureau chief at "politico." he is, of course, at buckingham palace to tell you about the boston red sox's five game winning streak. one game behind the yankees going to the all star break. two games behind in the wild card chase. what say the new king, jonathan lemire? also, secondly, talk about the meeting between the president and the prime minister. this is going to be their sixth meeting in six months. obviously, nato membership at the forefront. then, of course, king charles iii always -- his focus has always been on the environment. we've just endured three, four of the hottest days in history

of the world since it's been recorded. that obviously has to be on the front of many peoples' minds there. >> good morning, guys. coming live from the official katty kay position for "morning joe" at the gate at buckingham palace. the changing of the guard happening over my shoulder as we speak. >> nice. >> this is, indeed, the president's first day here in europe. i traveled with him last night on air force one here. as you saw, he arrived at number ten to meet with rishi sunak. the war in ukraine is part of today's conversation. there is a difference of opinion on the cluster bombs. the u.s. signed off on sending the munitions to ukraine as part of the war effort. the uk is one of the countries who signed a treaty that prevents doing that. aides tell me they don't think it'll be a major flash point of tension there. as mentioned, the president will meet with the king later today. king charles, environmental

issues, climate change has always been at the forefront of his public agenda. the president will use the meeting today to try to create a public/private partnership to help on the issues. the two men, i'm told, have a kinship. both waited a long time to ascend to the most powerful positions in their country and have warm relations from previous meetings on the international stage. you're right, joe, this is a preclude to the nato summit in lithuania. ukraine not expected to gain admission to the alliance any time soon, but that will be a topic of conversation, as will be sweden. we can dive into that, as well as the number one topic on both sides of the pond, those surging boston red sox as we head into the break. >> of course, of course. >> looking perhaps to make the wild card one. >> doing well. >> surprisingly so, mika, frankly. >> i'm surprised. >> surprisingly so. king charles iii, of course, after talking about the

environment will say, buy or sell? buy or sell at the deadline? keep us informed. we'll be coming back to you often on that. >> thanks, lemire. >> david ignatius, of course, you spent many years talking to dr. brzezinski about ukraine. it was an obsession of his for decades. you all talked about it at length, the possibility of ukraine becoming a member of nato. obviously, the president says they can't right now because that would mean war with russia which they're trying to avoid. let's talk about that. also, i think, right now more relevant because it's more possible, the fact that you have turkey standing in the way of sweden, who would be a forceful, important, powerful member of nato as an addition. talk about the possibility of joe biden possibly making progress on getting sweden into the nato alliance. >> joe, i had an unusual

opportunity to walk through each of these key issues that will be facing president biden when he arrives in vilnius with his national security adviser jake sullivan. auspicious, ominous rooms, the secretary's old rooms in talk about these issues. the nato summit, the big issue before it, the president has made clear he doesn't think this is the time to admit a country that's at war with russia. nato would perhaps imply that they should immediately come to that country's aid with the full commitment, article v, a pledge to use nuclear weapons. neither biden nor most nato members are ready to do that. some countries, the baltic countries, want a timetable. okay, he can't come now, but let's give ukraine a timetable

for when they can. biden is reluctant, as is germany. then sweden's membership. nato is on the way to it being arguably one of the strongest alliances in history, but turkey has been blocking sweden. i was assured by the national security adviser, jake sullivan, these problems with turkey are being resolved. it is notable president biden called erdogan, the president of turkey, on sunday. he's going to meet him in vilnius on tuesday. there is a feeling this may be worked out this week, and if not, soon. there is a general feeling that the big issues, although there will be some signs of controversy, basically are understood on all sides. the key, i would just conclude, is how does nato come out of this summit with a real sense that it has a strategy that's not simply for sustaining kyiv for as long as it takes, but for winning. russia is weak.

russia is in disarray. if there was a moment to have a strategy, to have a push to get to a different status for ukraine, a victory in this conflict, it's right now. joe, you have a new piece in "the atlantic," out moments ago, and it is on my favorite topic, where america stands with the world as the nato summit starts. you write this. america is doing just fine. you argue, quote, uncle sam deserves a modern day atticus finch. liberals once attacked the pentagon's top brass, but now it is republican members of congress who longingly swoon over russia's manly military while trashing u.s. generals and our men and women in uniform. those gop attacks come despite the fact that america's military is more powerful today relative to the rest of the world than at any time since the second world

war. unlike in years past, american allies no longer grouse about the u.s. leading from behind or burrowing itself into a self-defeating america first hole. instead, the u.s. is first among equals in a dynamic and expanding nato alliance that just added a new member with more than 800 miles of russian border, and that has provided a devastating response to vladimir putin's illegal invasion of ukraine. looking east, the united states has finally begun its pivot to asia, strengthening military cooperation with japan, the philippines, guam, south korea and australia. the current disruption in u.s.-sino relations may have less to do with spy balloons and diplomatic missteps than with xi jinping's rational fear of being remmed in by an increasingly muscular u.s. military presence

surrounded the south china sea. president joe biden's recent diplomatic overtures toward india were likewise calculated to contain china's regional ambitions. childhood poverty has dropped to the lowest level on record. teenage pregnancy has done the same. the u.s. dollar has experienced generational highs other the past year. unemployment recently hit a 54-year low. the number of job openings this past year also hit record highs. overall, the u.s. economy continues to surge forward despite economists' dire predictions. america's gdp grew to $25 trillion last year. texas has a bigger economy than russia, and although california is routinely rebuked by right-wing critics, it has the fourth strongest economy in the world, stronger than britain's,

france's, canada's or india's. the united states and its european allies collectively run an economic machine that doubles china's stagnating output. despite record debt levels, a stubborn case of inflation, and other structural challenges, american capitalism continues to drive and dominate the world economy. though a fulsome defense of uncle sam often requires dialectical thinking. but remember this, even with all of its failings, america has fed and freed more human beings than any other country in history. and despite the blather that cable news hosts spit at you daily, your country is doing pretty damn well. and i think it is fair to say, joe, biden has led that international effort. >> well, he certainly has. i mean, this is something i was also saying during the trump administration, during the obama

administration, during the bush administration. i've been saying it for quite some time. not on the foreign policy side, because i will say, on the foreign policy side, joe biden has done extraordinarily well. afghanistan the one challenge, which i discuss also in this column. >> right. >> it was done -- it was promised by the past three presidents to do the same thing, and 70% of americans supported joe biden doing that when he did it. even 55% of americans supported him after he did it. the purpose, though, of this column wasn't to talk about joe biden or donald trump or anybody else. it was to talk about america. jon meacham, as i was going through the fourth of july reading, it was, oh, 75% of americans think we're going in the wrong direction. i could find another poll, though, that said 75% of americans say their economic standing is good or excellent right now. there's this bizarre disconnect

between perception and reality. i also go down so many things in this column about, for instance, republicans now have become the new lefties, trashing, you know, college campuses, doing everything but taking over, you know, president's offices and universities. despite the fact every year, our universities and colleges are ranked the best in the world and the most powerful people in the world desperately try to get their children into our universities. the smartest kids on the planet come to our universities. yet, they're constantly trashed as woke and weak. we hear all of this, jon, and there's just a massive disconnect. the fact is, the united states is the most powerful, most productive, most successful country on the planet, and yet we never hear that from our politicians. year in and year out.

>> well, there's -- i think one of the great disconnects that you've pointed out is between people who talk about these things publicly, people who poll on them, and then, in a cycle, then talk about the polling results, and what people genuinely think. my own sense is that part of the wages of having such a radically polarized political class, which is to say those who have an economic, cultural and often idealogical stake in an unfolding political drama, because of that polarization, it's not anyone's interest to say what you just said. because what's interesting about, hey, everything's good? yeah, there are problems, we should work on it. you know, that's not going to get people outraged. it's not going to guarantee

advertisers, that people are going to tune in. you need on the right, you need to think that the world is ending and that president biden bizarrely is leading this -- these end times. on the left, you have to be perpetually on edge about fascism at home. and there is a hugely legitimate reason to worry about fascism at home. because the only threat, the main threat to the world, the american state that you just described is internal, right? it's that we will gnaw on ourselves. we will let appetite and ambition overcome a kind of constitutional order where we're not perfect but we're trying to get a little more perfect, and where democratic capitalism can,

in fact, create prosper the i and possibility for others. i just think that part of the -- i think the main problem, and i think this helps explain the president's polling numbers, is that there's little incentive in a polarized political climate to say what you just said, however true it is. i think that's what the case that has to be made again and again. it may be the people who decide the 2024 election are not watching us this morning, are not tuned into the minute to minute, but who are, in about five or six states and are going to assess the state of the nation sometime next year. i think that that's not necessarily a bad thing. where it is -- where it creates a cost, though, what we're seeing this week with president

biden going to nato, with this unfolding story, is this is why we have presidents. this is why we need serious people who are president. because i was looking at the map you had. look at -- look at that. look at the size of russia, the size of nato. this is great power stuff that can go -- look at that. >> amazing. >> it's amazing. >> don't you want a grown-up sitting there to make the call? >> nobody would have imagined that map, jon meacham, in 1981, in 1991 when the soviet union collapsed. even in 2000 or even in 2017 when there was a president who was trying to undo nato. it is extraordinary, what has happened. of course, vladimir putin is responsible for most of it by his missteps. but no, you're exactly right, that is an incredible map to behold.

as admiral stavridis said, we've turned the baltic sea into the nato lake. it's unbelievable. reverend al, i also talk about challenges that we've had as a country moving toward a more perfect union. talk about how the author of the declaration of independence was a slave holder. the drafter of the constitution a slave holder. yet, it was abraham lincoln who used thomas jefferson's declaration of independence specifically for the argument to grant emancipation to slaves in 1863. then it was martin luther king who used that same declaration as a, quote, promissory note for all americans. and that pressure, what martin luther king did 60 years ago next month, holding the -- basically holding the declaration of independence up to jfk, to members of congress,

to all americans, saying, "this is our promissory note, and it is time that it is paid off." well, it was paid off a year later in the civil rights act and two years later in the voting rights act. so we are -- oh, and by the way, madison, the slave holder, madison's constitution held donald trump and held others like donald trump in check 240 years later. so we are a very imperfect union, but as you say all the time, we are still moving toward being a more perfect union. >> we are an imperfect nation, but it is our job to try and perfect this nation and move away from those imperfections. and we have seen in history people across lines of race, religion and gender, it has moved toward that. as you talk about martin luther king 100 years after the 1863

emancipation proclamation, and as you know, his son martin iii and andre king and i are going back with a huge march there this august. why did dr. king go to the lincoln memorial? it comes out of right you were writing about in "the atlantic." he didn't go to the washington monument. he didn't go to the jefferson memorial. he went to the lincoln memorial because that's where the promise came from. he said, "mr. lincoln, you promised," and he raised the promise from that declaration. in his speech, we go to the end of the speech, the climax of what we would say of a sermon, "i have a dream," but the content was to make america live up to the promise. we still are moving toward that promise. and i think we made some progress. i think we need more to go. contrast that with a donald trump, who when he moved into the oval office, he hung up a picture in the oval office of andrew jackson, who was an

avowed segregationist and one that advocated slavery and states rights. so when you contrast biden, who is trying to continue that trajectory, to a trump, who the in the spirit of andrew jackson, that's what the american public is going to have to deal with next year. >> while we're talking about nato, we have another view on nato from somebody from the -- >> from my husband to my brother. my brother writes, "ukraine needs nato membership, not an israel model." that'd be, for example, what israel has as a ten-year model. my brother, ian, not mark, the former secretary of defense for europe and nato, policy and senior fellow at the atlantic council writes, in part, this, "this approach, an alternative to ukraine's membership in nato, is a mistaken application in

israel's geopolitical circumstances, one that would indefinitely perpetuate russia's aggression. israel's adversaries in the islamic world are not major powers. kyiv confronts a far more significant adversary. moscow's determination to obliterate ukraine and its history far exceeds the collective intensity of israel's adversaries. as long as nato is not fully committed to defending the security of ukraine, putin will continue his violent quest, especially if he believes continuing the conflict is the key to preventing ukrainian membership in the alliance. putin must not be given an indefinite veto over transatlantic security. granting nato membership to ukraine is critical to ensuring it wins the war against russia quickly and decisively. it is the most unambiguous way to demonstrate to putin that

supporting ukraine is unachievable and wasteful. it is the most reliable way to assure such aggression never happens again. >> what is most fascinating, elise jordan, in the argument is it was an argument mika's father has made off and on at times. it's a question that's vexed american foreign policy leaders for quite a very long time. not just because of the threat from russia but because of the challenges internally in ukraine, as well. but right now, ian brzezinski, anne applebaum, lieutenant colonel vindman, and a lot of republicans are saying that joe biden needs to actually go further, be stronger, and admit ukraine into nato right now. what are your thoughts? >> it was interesting to me that president biden struck such a hard line, saying now was not the time, given that putin is at

a point of weakness. the ukrainians are armed pretty much as well as they've been at any point in the war and are expected to have a great offensive going forward. and so putin is really at a weak point, and so why not keep the pressure going there? it was odd to me that that was one of -- that that was such a strong statement. while i'm not necessarily sure that ukraine should be admitted right now, just completely dismissing the possibility down the road seems like that plays into putin's hand at a time when he's weak. >> right. yup. >> david ignatius, let me ask you that, because it struck me the same way. it's kind of like when he called -- when joe biden called vladimir putin a killer, i was like, okay, he is. maybe not the most diplomatic language. when he called xi a dictator right after poor tony blinken

had just gone to visit xi, sort of straightened up the covers and, you know, tucked in the bed to get that alliance sort of neat and orderly, at least on the right path again. it was, you know, messed up by that. i was curious, do you think that was deliberate yesterday? when joe biden acted as forcefully. could he have used more diplomatic language? >> well, you know, i think this is his view. it is important that our allies know exactly what the u.s. view is. there is a bit of a split in nato now. the baltic states, poland, the countries that are closest to russia, that feel the threat of putin most directly, would like more of a commitment. they'd like -- if not immediate membership, everybody accepts that's not really feasible, they'd like a timetable for membership. biden has requested that and has argued instead, the security of

ukraine is going to be dependent on two things. ukraine's own military power. ukraine is going to have the strongest army in europe coming out of this war. ukraine is going to need weapons. it's going to need f-16s. it's going to need more tanks so that it really is this power that can prevent russia from ever, ever doing it again. secondly, like israel, it is going to need an american guarantee. when people talk about the israel model that mika's brother, ian, rejected, what they mean is the commitment the united states has made to israel for decades, that you will have a quantitative and qualitative edge in military weapons as far ahead as we can see, against your arab enemies. it is an absolute commitment, and it's been kept by every president. i think ukraine is going to have as strong a lobby in america for its future defense needs as israel does. i felt the president was just

saying what, you know, everybody knows about the u.s. position. it's important for us not to be ambiguous. the one thing this alliance doesn't need is america trying to make nice to people and say things people want to hear. i would make the point, going into this summit, there's a little bit of talk about, oh, our internal envisions and conflicting ideas about the future. i hope nato pulls together and says, "russia has never been weaker than it is now. ukraine has never opinion stronger as it presses its offensive than it is now. it needs all the help we can give. anything we might wish we'd done if their counteroffensive fails at the end of the year, let's do now. let's give them the weapons they need. they just did that with cluster bombs." they were running out of ammunition, folks. that won't happen now thanks to biden's decision, which was not an easy one. well, still ahead on

"morning joe," continued coverage of president biden overseas in london today ahead of this week's nato summit. at top of mind for leaders at the alliance will be ukraine, as we've been discussing, where president zelenskyy is calling b.s. on donald trump's claims he would end the war in a single day. meanwhile, the former president returned to the campaign trail over the weekend with sharpened attacks against his political opponents. we'll show you his new comments about ron desantis, desantis. plus, why republicans in iowa have decided to hold the first in the nation caucus on a federal holiday. and tomorrow morning, 2024 republican presidential candidate, former new jersey governor chris christie will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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new talenti gelato and sorbetto mini bars. ♪♪ about three years later, they said to him, will you run against the president? he said, "i have no comment on that." i said, "he has no comment? that means he's running." i said, "that son of a [ bleep ] is running." i got him elected. so i'm in the a big fan of his, and he is highly overrated. he also has no personality. that helps, right? as a politician, you have to have personality. you saw where he wants to change his name. it's desantis. he wants to go desantis. you don't do it in the middle of a campaign. >> i actually think he has that backwards. >> i'm confused. >> spent his entire life calling himself desantis, then changed it to desantis. >> i have to agree. anyhow, donald trump returning to the campaign trail this week wednesday -- weekend with a trip

to a church. he is blaming the media for his lackluster showing in a republican primary poll. on fox news yesterday, the florida governor was asked about a "politico" article that quotes a top spokesperson for desantis' superpac as saying his campaign is, quote, facing an uphill battle. adding that they're way behind in national polling. here was desantis' response to that. >> these are narratives. the media does not want me to be the nominee. i think that's very, very clear. why? because they know i'll beat biden. even more importantly, they know i will actually deliver on all these things. we will stop the invasion at the border. we'll take on the drug cartels. we'll curtail the administrative state. we'll get spending under control. we'll do all the things that they don't want to see done, and so they're going to continue

doing the type of narrative. we understand this is a state by state process. we've had incredible support in the early states, building an organization, signing up the key people that you need to be able to compete in a place like iowa. we just launched our mamas movement. my wife was in iowa with governor kim reynolds launching that. parents, particularly moms, i think, are going to be the secret weapon both in this primary and the general election. nobody has been a better champion for those folks than me. >> interesting. columnist peggy noonan has a new opinion piece for "the wall street journal" entitled, "may trump soon reach his waterloo." she writes in part, quote, "this weekend, i reread paul johnson's napoleon, which came out in 2002, par of his series of brief lives. johnson writes the cult of napoleon in a way that is now tert innocent. the consult of bonaparte was originally wide but it did not last.

it had power in the moment but it passed. reality settled in. history made its judgments. the cultists changed the subject, or added nuance when pressed to explain their previous support. back to now, chris christie could easily defeat joe biden. so could several of the gop candidates now in the field. donald trump wouldn't, for one big reason: his special superpower is that he is the only republican who will unite and rally the democratic base and drive independents away." >> true that. >> hello. >> "a sad thing is that many bright trump supporters sense this, and the case against him, but can't concede it and break from him. this weekend at a party, one of mr. trump's new york supporters, a former office holder, quickly made his way to me to speak of his hero. he referred to the abraham accords and the economy and said, surely you can admit he

was a good president. he was all wound up, so i spoke slowly. i will tell you what he is: he is a bad man. i know it, and if i were a less courteous person, i would say that you know it, too. he was startled, didn't reply, and literally took a step back. because, i think, he does know it. political cults are never good, often rise, always pass. many it this time come sooner rather than later." >> it's interesting. >> it's a great piece. >> this will pass. this, too, shall pass. we're not exactly sure when, but when it passes, it will pass fairly quickly. jon meacham, i've said that for quite some time. that when it passes, he will not slowly fade away.

it will be a precipitous drop. but we're not exactly sure what time that will be. i will say, and i'm curious because you also live in a red state surrounded by trump supporters or former trump supporters, republicans. i must say, i keep being surprised by the number of former trump supporters who voted for him in 2016 and some of whom even voted for him in 2020, do not like the man. i mean, these are people voting for him in '16, voted for him in '20, and they're exhausted by him. they're angered by him. they're angered. >> they don't know where to go. >> they don't know exactly where to go. they don't really know this desantis guy. it's very interesting. this is one of the few times in my life that overwhelming anecdotal evidence is just not matching what i'm seeing in poll numbers. overwhelming anecdotal evidence that i'm seeing is, i just

haven't met a trump voters who voted for him in 2016 that says they'll vote for him in 2024. they're angry. they've had enough. he exhausts them, and they don't want to lose anymore. >> yeah. they don't. but here's the great question about whether this movement is defeated and does become part of the heap of history and whether we can talk about it in terms of autopsy as opposed to unfolding reality. are enough americans willing to vote against trump no matter what? that means republicans in a general election. are they willing to vote for the democratic nominee with whom they may disagree on issues of policy but whom they believe to be fundamentally

constitutionalist. do you want a constitutional president, which is what president biden is, however imperfect he may be, or do you want a proven insurrectionist? when framed that way, seems to me that tax policy and evs kind of take their proper place in the scope of things. but that's what -- that's, to me, the great question here, is there a principled partisanship in the country? will people, can people put the constitution ahead of particular policy issues? if they can't, if as peggy wrote about, if the people who still sort of say, "oh, he was a great president and he is better than biden," you know, whatever story they tell themselves, if that's the story they tell themselves

all the way to the ballot box in '24, then i'm not sure this is over. if they can, then it probably is. but it's a pretty straightforward question. do you believe in the constitution? more than 48 months of policy? >> yeah, and elise, it's interesting. the people we were talking to this weekend just said, well, we stayed home in 2020. are we going to have to stay home in 2024? said, well, what do you think of ron desantis, chris christie? they're like, we haven't heard that much about them. it's interesting that, right now, trump does eclipse them all. that's the one name they've heard. a lot of republicans just, again -- >> not in a good way. >> -- not going to vote for him. but they may not vote for anybody. they may just stay home again.

>> right. >> again, as we've been saying for some time, that spells doom for republicans next fall. >> joe, i would argue, though, that biden needs those republicans. he needs a slight sliver. >> yeah. >> 5% to 6% of those never trumpers, he needs them to propel to victory. it'll come down to a hundred thousand votes in pennsylvania and wisconsin the end of the day. the way jon meacham is framing the way the narrative should be, are you going to vote for an insurrectionist? are you anti-constitution? it's the framing democrats should adopt. right now, i see republicans who are creating narratives. they're creating narratives about a biden crime family, narratives about a stolen election. they're creating narratives that just aren't being combatted with the same strength because

democrats are talking about policy, which i love policy. but if you want to win, you've got to talk about where the conversation is. >> all right. jon meacham, thank you so much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. coming up on "morning joe," a look inside the house gop's plan to go after fbi and the doj. our next guest reports it goes far beyond just trying to impeach attorney general merrick garland. speaking of house republicans, still not clear where marjorie taylor greene stands with the freedom caucus. >> is she in? >> i don't know. we'll go through the developments and much more. >> trying to kick her out, right? >> ahead on "morning joe." 4hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is 6:47 on the east coast. 3:47 a.m. out west where people are just waking up right now. doing their yoga and -- what's that drink that they sent us? >> cumbuchu? >> i don't know. that's what they're drinking. >> i think they're still sleep ing on the west coast. >> no, people like ari are up. >> is that what you wanted to say? >> it was interesting. we were showing the capitol. i got distracted by what they drink on the west coast. >> yeah. >> it's like, house republicans, they work so hard day in and day out to make democrats' lives easier politically. what are they doing? now, they're attacking america's premier law enforcement agency.

they're attacking the very people who protect us from the islamic terrorists that they've warned us about for so many years. they're attacking the same people that tried to ship fentanyl into this country and kill our children. the same people who are trying to stop drug gangs every single day. that break up white collar crime rings. people who are trying to steal your parents' and grandparents' money on telephones through these scams. that's what the fbi does every year. the doj, of course, helps, as well. republicans, they're at war with them because they actually tried to stop donald trump from stealing nuclear secrets and keeping them from the united states government. so i think the democrats should send them a big basket of --

>> thank you, a bouquet. >> -- edible flowers or something. >> specifically, it's house republicans who are considering taking action against the fbi and department of justice. according to a new report from "politico," quote, that push will become a cornerstone of republicans' ajen that in a chaotic back half of the year. speaker kevin mccarthy has already threatened to explore impeaching attorney general merrick garland. conservatives have also gone after fbi director christopher wray, weighing whether to force a vote to boot him from office. additionally, some conservatives who believe the agencies have targeted republicans are eager to cut the law agencies' budgets. with us, the writer of this article. and ali vitali, who took on "way

too early" duties this morning. thank you, ali. jordan, starting with you, what is the strategy republicans are taking? >> you'll see this play out in three ways going to the back half of the year. this week, christopher wray is going to be before the house judiciary committee justifying, so that'll give us a flavor. then they have investigations. they've got the impeachment chatter around the attorney general. they are looking at using the government funding legislation that is going to come to a head as we head to the back half of the year. then they've got the surveillance debate, which has some bipartisan overtones, but you're going to see it be a vehicle for some of the party's frustrations with the fbi, in particular. >> you know, ali, it is fascinating. we were talking earlier in the show about how these house republicans are trashing u.s. generals now. some are trashing u.s. troops. now, they're trashing the fbi. they're trashing the doj, all

because of donald trump's perceived slights from these agencies. in the fbi's case, because they actually had to go in to get the nuclear secrets and the other military's secrets he'd stolen from the u.s. government. >> yes. >> i expect there has to be consternation between house republicans and certainly senate republicans in this war against law enforcement. >> there definitely are because we're both old enough to remember when republicans were going after democrats for defund the police. here, you have some people saying that they should be defunding either prosecutors or the fbi in some cases. i mean, this is now so topsy-turvy with the way republicans are talking about law, this is not where they want the focus to be. you talk to senate republicans who say they want this to be a conversation about how they've stopped various points of the biden agenda but also found ways to work with him on things going

forward. that's not a focus on impeaching christopher wray or attorney general merrick garland. instead, that's a focus on permitting reform. that's some of the things we'll see coming down the pike line in the defense act. that's where the senate side of the building wants to be. on the other side of the building, we see the red meat stuff we see on the campaign trail with trump and the other 2024 presidential contenders, continuing to fight the culture wars, pushing forward on abortion restrictions and, of course, that's nothing to say of the impeachment battles. i'd also note this week as they come back to town, we have to figure out what you were talking about earlier, which is, is marjorie taylor greene in or out of the house freedom caucus? what is stunning about that is the freedom caucus is so powerful in this current republican conference, and they're basically kicking her out, a, because she had colorful conversations with some colleagues, like lauren boebert, but, b, because she's almost too helpful of an ally to kevin mccarthy, who is technically on

paper the leader of this entire conference but is out of step, of course, with where the freedom caucus wants him to be. >> wow. >> bring your cabucha to washington. >> she's on it. >> thank you, ali. >> david ignatius, it is fascinating and bizarre these house republicans, this is what i was talking about in "the atlantic" column, they've switched sides with leftists from the '60s. they hate the fbi. they hate the department of justice. they and their allies call the chairman of the joint chiefs a stupid pig. if that doesn't sound like something shouted by a group trying to levitate the pentagon in '69. really, they've changed sides, and this is such a political loser. you do wonder why kevin mccarthy

or others can't say, guys, women, back off. this is going to cost us control of the house. >> joe, i think you know the answer better than i. your republican party has become a populist, anti-elitist party, and it wants to blame everything on elitist politicians who got us into this mess, on blue state democrats and all the things that they do wrong. it wants to focus on cultural issues. president biden is a president trying to actually make the political system work, passing infrastructure legislation, getting things done that affect our ability to make semiconductor chips and our ability to compete in the world economy. didn't get much credit for that. one thing i find when i look at the polling is that americans on both sides of the aisle say

we're going in the wrong direction as a country. to get back to the way we started this hour, your article in "the atlantic" is right in arguing the person who can lead the country has got to be the person who says things aren't that bad in america. we are not as crippled and broken a country as you hear from republicans and sometimes from democrats, too. we're actually a strong country. that message, weirdly in this time of division, seems very, very difficult to sound. that's part of the problem. people don't see that, don't see that clear middle way through american life, where things aren't going in the wrong direction. >> so, jordain, how will this play out? do we expect house republicans to try to slash the fbi's budget? when they do, do they expect

senate republicans to go along? i can't think of more than three or four who would. >> i think this is some of the concerns we're hearing from more establishment, moderate house republicans, is that they are spending a lot of political energy right now trying to get these cuts through their cuts, which they need to pass with 218 republican votes, sort of an internal discussion. but they'll say, you know, these are never going to make it past a democratic controlled senate. they're never going to get biden's signature. do we end up in a similar situation you saw house republicans in after the debt ceiling? where the right flank doesn't vote for the bills. they're mad when the deal is finally made. are they back in sort of a situation they found themselves in, where the floor was shut down for a week earlier this year. >> "politico's" jordain carney,

thank you for being on. >> she's right. there is battle in the house. but mitch mcconnell, john thune, other republicans, they're not going to try to kick out christopher wray or slash law enforcement budgets. they never will. >> it is like the conversation noonan had with the voter, they know. this morning, it's not clear if marjorie taylor greene is or is not a member of the house freedom caucus. >> so confused. america wants to know. >> it's been two weeks since members of the far right group voted to remove the georgia congresswoman. since then, greene has reportedly not responded to multiple attempts by caucus chair perry and other top members to communicate with her. >> is this a scene out of "seinfeld" where george is fired but he never acknowledges it? >> she's too young. i'm not. >> i know exactly that episode. >> hysterical. >> oh my god, that was smart of

george costanza. >> is this a costanza-like strategy? >> is she costanza-ing the house freedom caucus? i don't know. this has been one of the most vexing stories. it's taking advantage of the fact that not everyone is in the same capitol complex to stop something from happening which eventually will be happening, being kicked out of the house freedom caucus. the dynamics of this congress are so fascinating. now that republicans have the power of the gavel, we're even watching the far right side of this conference start to splinter off. i mean, again, i didn't see marjorie taylor greene ever being a tight ally of kevin mccarthy, but you see her there on the screen from during the speaker battle, the debt ceiling battle. she's paid attacks with the people she came up with in the freedom caucus, the lauren boeberts and the matt gaetzes. in some ways, it weakensthey've.

they've done well-being a consistent thorn in the side of republican leaders. the more that splitter off for getting what they need for back home, it becomes a problem for the freedom caucus. for marjorie taylor greene, i think she's looking to the future. it is stunning she didn't get kicked out for the jewish space laser comments or incendiary things she's said, but she's kicked out for working with mccarthy. >> so weird. >> yeah. >> jason alexander will be on the show friday. so excited. speaking of costanza. >> perfect. >> on friday on "morning joe." >> that's nice. >> ali vitali, thank you very much. we'll see you again tomorrow morning. >> yeah. >> on "way too early." really appreciate it. >> thanks, guys. look, it's the top of the hour. the first went so quickly. >> so quickly. >> only three more to go on this monday, july 10th. david ignatius, reverend al sharpton and elise jordan are still with us.

joining the conversation, we have u.s. national editor at "the financial times," ed luce joins us. our top story that hour, president biden is now on his way to windsor castle after wrapping up a meeting this morning with uk prime minister rishi sunak. it comes ahead of this week's highly anticipated nato summit in lithuania. shortly after arriving, president biden sat down in the garden with sunak, and the two enjoyed some tea but did not answer questions. now, the president is on his way to meet with newly crowned king charles at windsor castle. the two will participate in a climate discussion later today. >> let's bring in correspondent josh lederman. what is the president hoping to get from not only the prime minister but what is he expecting to talk to the king about? >> good morning, joe. this first stop on the president's trip is the easy

part. he had the meeting this morning with rishi sunak, the prime minister, a chance to show off the close u.s. and uk relationship. he talked jokingly about how they've been meeting pretty much once a month. in his meeting with the king, it'll be his first opportunity to sit down with the king since he was car nated. they'll do the climate event that mika mentioned, which is an issue close to both of their hearts. the king, when he was prince charles, worked on it for years. really, the hard, difficult work will come after the president wraps up that meeting and heads to lithuania later in the day today for that nato summit with a real cloud hanging over his head, over the controversial u.s. decision to send cluster bombs to the ukrainians. many of the allies he's meeting with banned cluster bombs under the oslo convention. many expressed publicly their concerns of the u.s. providing weaponry to ukraine that has the possibility to injure or kill

innocent civilians. the more difficult part will come when the allies try to figure out how to deal with this issue of ukraine's insistence that it should be let soon into the nato alliance. president biden speaking on cnn over the weekend about whether he feels ukraine is ready. take a listen. >> i don't think it is ready for membership in nato. holding nato together is really critical. i don't think there is unanimity in nato about whether or not to bring ukraine into the nato family now. at this moment, in the middle of a war. >> when it comes to what will make this a successful foreign trip for president biden and the allies, there are a few things that come to mind. one, if they are able to paper over, come up with a fig leaf of sorts on that issue of ukraine's nato membership, there has been talk about maybe offering security assurances to ukraine in lieu of actual admission, if they are able to at least find some way to signal that ukraine

will eventually be in nato. if they can come up with real commitments in terms of defense products to ukraine, the f-16s the ukrainians want training on very quickly or other types of security assistance, that could be a win. finally, president biden hoping for a breakthrough in the next few days on the issue of letting sweden into nato. that was supposed to happen alongside finland. it did not as a result partially of objections from hungary. most notably turkey, with a flurry of diplomacy, including president biden speaking with president erdogan on air force one on the way here. secretary blinken has been speaking with his turkish counterpart. the nato secretary general aims to bring the swedish and turkish leaders together for a joint summit with nato secretary general stoltenberg in vilnius to try to find a breakthrough. that would show the nato alliance is holding strong and

expanding as we surpass this 500 mark day of this war. >> john letterman from katty kay's perch, as jonathan lemire said earlier, we appreciate it. david ignatius, you could repeat for our viewers in the 77:00 hor what you said last hour, the national security adviser, the confidence that we are going to be able to work out a deal with erdogan in turkey to get sweden into nato. >> i spoke with jake sullivan, the national security adviser, at some length on friday with a small group of journalists on this question, will sweden enter nato, making it as strong in a way as it has ever been. his answer was unambiguous. yes, it'll happen. it could take a while. it could be resolved this week because of the meetings between erdogan, biden and others.

it may wait some weeks more than that. he had no doubt in his mind it was going to happen. i think that's significant. i think on the larger question, joe, of this summit and whether it'll have unity among nato allies, i think that there's going to be some difference about the timetable for ukrainian admission. i would expect, you know, an emotional embrace of our brave ukrainian allies in the fight. commitments to them for additional weapons, additional support of all kinds. thinking about biden, the criticism we hear of him sometimes, as we heads to vilnius, that he is not doing enough for ukraine. he is elected president to do two things in this regard. help ukraine fight off this terrible invasion from russia, and avoid world war iii with russia and the united states. those are his two jobs. it's not -- it's a delicate

process, and so far as i think most observers can tell, he is doing it pretty well. >> yeah, certainly seems that way. ed luce, let's talk about biden's trip. we know that he has met with the prime minister six times in six months. we don't expect a lot new from that meeting, but i was struck by the timing of biden's first -- the president's first visit with king charles iii, in that king charles has bristled, according to sources that we know, that spent time with the king, has bristled that he's not been able to be quite as active on environmental issues as he would like as king. as opposed to prince. but the timing, i would say, is fortuitous, is it not? an american president is coming to talk to him a week after we recorded three, four of our hottest days since recordkeeping

has begun. >> yeah, i mean, charles has been focused on climate change, on the environment since the 1970s, since biden became a senator. biden, of course, has a track record on this, too. they see very much eye to eye. at the climate change summit in glasgow a couple years ago, they spoke about it. biden was complimentary and said, "we need you in this fight." it is charles' number one passion. of course, as king, as monarch, you're not supposed to have views on anything. but the idea that charles is suddenly going to disarm and decide he is neutral on whether global warming is important or not is farfetched. so he is pressing on this issue, and it is exclusively what they're going to be talking about add windsor today when biden goes to windsor. there is tabloid nonsense, as

there always is in this country, that america isn't paying enough attention to britain. this is biden's fifth trip to britain in 2 1/2 years. >> okay. >> i don't think he's been to any other country five times. there is sort of thin skinned neediness of the british tabloid media. i wish it would vanish. unfortunately, it is background noise, but you should pay no attention. >> these leaders -- >> five trips. >> -- have met six times in the past six months. ed, you have a great piece in "the financial times." fascinating, on bidenomics. i wanted to pull a part from it. talk about bidenomics. you bring up something that's fascinating, something not many are talking about and they haven't noticed. in two years, joe biden passed more bipartisan legislation, more meaningful legislation to

shape the economy than bill clinton did in his eight or barack obama did in his eight years. so in two years. i'm sure those gentlemen might not agree, but everybody would. >> that's amazing. >> he did more in two years than those two presidents did in 16 years, as far as significant legislation that could change the direction of the economy and did. >> he did. in that respect, he really is. if you remember back to the beginning of biden's administration, we were debating, is he going to be an fdr because of the drama of the circumstances with covid? is he going to be a jiminy jimmy carter and not have a coherent economic legacy? or will he be an lbj, a lyndon bates johnson? he is proving himself much like lbj because of his senate experience, because of his legislative feel.

he is proving himself to be as productive as lbj in terms of getting bills passed. in a way, playing lbj to barack obama's jfk in that respect. none of the eloquence of an obama, but perhaps a lot more of a track record to show for it. in terms of how do you define bidenomics, i would say it's a simple definition. not reaganomics. a belief that there's got to be more than a trickle down to get the middle class going again. there has to be federal intervention. that's what we've been seeing, a big infrastructure bill, semiconductor bill. of course, the inflation reduction act. these are major pieces of legislation. >> you know, it is fascinating, reverend al, that we've been talking about the united states,

how it's been doing globally. strongly than it has been, the military relevant to the rest of the world. diplomatically, nato is stronger than it's ever been. you look economically, and we talked about it before, unemployment is at record low. black unemployment for black americans at record low. one stat a couple months ago that unemployment rate for black menlolower than the unemploymen rate for white men. there has been extraordinary progress or so many fronts. and there is no doubt. you read ed's piece, you walk away understanding this is the most significant president in his first two years since ronald reagan when it comes to shaping the economy. the question is, why is that not filtering through to voters? >> i think the messaging of that leaves a lot to be desired because there really is a significant achievement,

significant legislation, and clearly joe biden and the biden/harris presidency has delivered in many ways from infrastructure to inflation reduction, et cetera. and the unemployment numbers even in the black community. i think you must also recognize what is going to really, i think, energize a lot of support for them, is what is happening in contrast. when you see the affirmative action decision of the supreme court and you see the cancelling of the forgiveness of student loans, and donald trump jumps out there and reminds everybody, "i put three of those justices on the court. i did a third of the court," i think that's going to energize the base as well as the substance of passing that legislation. so if anything is going to help energize a turnout for joe biden

and kamala harris, it will be donald trump on top of substances, like putting salt on your meat. i think the more he talks, i think the more joe biden will benefit from it. don't get in his way, mr. biden. >> yeah. elise, the same question goes to you. i wonder if the successes of this presidency are not translating, are democrats not doing their job, or are people just not tuning in yet to the election process? >> mika, i think ed nails it in his piece when he says the middle class is not feeling the benefits of biden's economics. the agenda is basically at the mercy of the federal reserve, which is described as mildly hawkish, which is really true. without the middle class feeling impact and all americans still seeing the impact of inflation

in their everyday lives when they go to buy pretty much anything, it makes it difficult to get any other part of the message across. >> ed, this is david ignatius. i have one question for you as we end our discussion. at the end of this week in vilnius where we'll have lots of tableaus of the western leaders and all those terrible group photographs that seem required, what do you think the actual net result will be in terms of western support for ukraine, ukraine's ability to win this war soon, and a position in the west to deal with a russia that really is in radical fragmentation now? >> that's a very good question. i mean, what you were saying earlier about the warm, emotional embrace, there is no doubt there will be strong optics with zelenskyy and the 31

nato leaders that are going to be there in vilnius. that's a lot of countries. there are also non-nato guests from the asia pacific region, japan, australia. this is a big tableau in its support for ukraine. ukraine is not going to join nato, and there's not going to be -- i mean, this summit, and there won't be a timetable for when it will join nato. but the direction is absolutely clear. to some extent, the nato membership is a bit of a red herring. i mean, the primary security challenge of our age, as leaders will make clear in vilnius, is to beat russia in ukraine. there will be no doubt there is consensus on that question in vilnius. i think the timing of nato membership for ukraine, it's been given too much air time.

the nature and the strength of western support across the board is going to be reaffirmed and be not open to question. >> u.s. national editor at "the financial times," ed luce, thank you very much for coming on this morning. and "the washington post"'s david ignatius, thank you, as well. some other political news to get to, the iowa republican party will told its first in the nation caucus on january 15th of next year. that date is martin luther king jr. day and three weeks earlier than past contests. when asked why the gop caucus would be held on that federal holiday, the chairman of the iowa republican party said, quote, we see this as honoring the legacy of martin luther king. republicans are keeping the same general framework for their 2024 primaries they've used in recent years, but the democratic

national committee has revoked iowa's first contest status. the state had technical glitches in the caucuses, leading to several days delay before a winner was announced. president biden finished fourth in that contest. the committee has since named south carolina, where biden's campaign kicked into high gear, as the first contest of the primary which will vote on february 3rd. in response to the gop's announcement, the iowa democratic party said it had no input on the date but is committed to doing what is good for democracy. rev, what is your take? >> well, i think if you want to really insult people, you can say that the republican primary and republican caucus in iowa continuing or honoring the legacy of martin luther king, and every candidate that's

announced so far is against affirmative action, has been against women's right to choose, every civil rights issue that dr. king stood for. dr. king's speech, joe talks about it in "the atlantic," we were talking about his "atlantic" article in the first hour, was about fulfilling the promise of america, the promissory note. that is affirmative action. either the republicans are mocking dr. king or never have really read dr. king, they just heard about the holiday. >> it seems rather insulting. still ahead on "morning joe," the director of the cia lays out what is needed today and tomorrow from u.s. intelligence. we'll go through that and get analysis from a former senior operations officer with the cia. plus, new reporting on donald trump's attempts to use the irs against former fbi officials. and we'll get an update on

jack smith's expansive special counsel investigation into january 6th. also ahead, the latest in an escalating beef between tech billionaires, whew, as twitter's elon musk lashes out, sort of, at meta's mark zuckerberg. what is that? i don't know what that is. >> and then, like, zuckerberg, over 70 million downloads of his new app. >> i have a feeling we have a new platform. >> yeah. >> it's called threads. >> yeah. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> it's incredible. joe. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. >> it's incrediblesymptoms. with my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. but just ok isn't ok. and i was done settling. if you still have symptoms after a tnf blocker like humira or enbrel,

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i can't believe it. 24 past the hour. elon musk is stepping up his attacks against meta founder mark zuckerberg after the company -- >> what else can he do, by the way? >> he's mad. >> over 70 million downloads of threads in three days. >> this was a rival to twitter that zuckerberg launched. it's called threads. i know we talked about it a lot on the show last week, but the app, which launched just five days ago, is breaking records for the number of sign-ups. >> wow. >> as of this morning, threads already has over 100 million users. >> come on, man. >> twitter, which launched in 2006, took years to get to the million user mark. those numbers appear to be further straining the relationship between musk and zuckerberg. >> remember they were going to fight, then i think -- >> listen. >> -- musk's mother, i think, rightly, very smartly, she's very smart lady, said, no, no. >> no fighting, boys. >> no fighting.

>> on saturday, fast food chain wendy's posted on threads, hey @zuck, you should go to space to make him mad. zuck responded with a laughing emoji. musk responded by calling zuckerberg a cuk, is that bad? what is that word? >> i don't know. >> i hope it stays peaceful, though. >> i hope it does. >> i'm not sure about it, still trying it out. >> elise, have you tried threads? >> i forgot my apple password, and i need to reset it. i do need to get on threads, though. >> oh, my lord, that's what i would do. i'd be like, oh, no password. >> every time. >> have you tried it, rev? >> i am on threads, always a believe in threading this

country together. >> exactly. >> aw. >> you know, it's early. it's far more positive, obviously, than twitter. >> it? . >> problem with twitter -- >> it changed. it became a mess. >> i always said, no matter what you said about twitter, it was the best newsfeed. >> i loved it. >> you could scroll down and in five minutes could get news. >> everything. >> know where you were based on who you were following. that's changed radically now. >> commercials. >> also, the verified changed now, so it is very strange. you used to go from the people who actually move the news, influenced the news because they were in congress or the senate or in the white house or wherever they were, they wrote for the biggest papers in the world. or they were the best opinion shapers and thinkers, whether connected to media or not. you could find out what they were saying by going to your verified. now, verified has been turned into, at times, some of the most

aggressive, negative forces in all of twitter. take those things away, and that's why so many people who make news are jumping to threads. threads has to figure out how to also have that. they have their recommendations, and it is not limited to who you follow. they need to get to a point where that threads news feed, anybody can scroll down and, in five minutes, find what they need to find. >> i agree. >> it's not there yet. >> i will say, though, it almost feels like elon musk is purposefully trying to sink twitter. some of the decisions just seem so bad. >> yeah. i think the one last week, where he was going to limit the number of tweets people could get, when kara swisher said he was intentionally taking it, that may have been with him understanding what was about to fall, what shoe was about to fall with threads.

kara swisher thinks he is deliberately driving it into the ground and it is able to be bought for a cheaper price. i don't really know. i kept asking her why this guy was taking over twitter. it makes absolutely no sense at all. kara responded, well, he does what he wants to do. but you're supposed to, like, have lawyers and other people around saying, "don't do this. this is bad." >> yeah. >> he did it. it's a $44 billion, i think, i think it is a $44 billion mistake. he is an extraordinarily inventive creative, whether you look at spacex, tesla. boy, it'd be great to see him focus in those areas. >> this is a mess. >> instead of trying to provoke all the time. >> yeah. >> he has a lot to give the world. police responded to an alleged assault during a meeting

of michigan republicans. the republican county chair told "the detroit news" he was attacked on saturday by james chatman, a republican from wayne county. according to dejung, he was slammed into the chair as soon as he opened the door to the meeting room. he said he suffered broken ribs in the scuffle and plans to press charges. what the what is going on there? >> what the what? >> that is nuts. >> elise, again, this is the problem with the republican party. everybody obviously is focused on joe biden falls off a bike. at night, sometimes he stutters a little bit more. he walks a little too stiffly. you've got a republican party that -- i think this is the most underreported story because everybody is obsessed with how donald trump is at 45% or at

48%. what they don't report on is that 25% of republicans say they will never, ever vote for him under any circumstances. that is a party divided and as the first republican president said, a house divided against ims cannot stand. michigan, yet another example, the state party is at war with one another. >> well, some of what happens at the state level is just crazy. you look at what is going to happen at the national level, though, and the rnc doesn't seem to be doing anything to exert any power to force donald trump out of the race. it's questionable, what they could do, since the bylaws would have had to have been agreed upon, i guess, at the last convention, but you would think that they could do something to at least ensure donald trump has to participate in debates if he wants to be the party's candidate. they aren't doing that.

it's bizarre to me. earlier, peggy noonan's comparison was to napoleon's cult of personality. a lot of stalin reading lately seems so similar to the cult of stalin, when it comes to the cult of trump. up is down and right is wrong. >> yeah, the cult of personality, it leads to one political loss after another political loss after another political loss. if this guy were winning, it'd still be terrible they were following a neofascist, but he's not winning. he continues to take them over the cliff. reverend al, this latest fight sounds like a southern baptist deacon's meeting. >> come on. >> ribs and kicks in the groin. >> i don't think so. >> maybe i exaggerate a little bit, but i know southern baptist preachers would deacons' meeti.

this is a party in disarray. >> definitely a party in disarray. it reminds me of the northern preacher meetings. anyway, it is clear to me that the potential talented candidates, like a nikki haley or tim scott, can't break through because he is sucking up all the oxygen in the room in terms of media space and attention, and his fights with desantis and his misinformation that he puts out every day. so even the candidates that could be really a threat to the biden/harris ticket can't break through. the best thing that could happen to biden and harris is this cult lasts at least through november of '4. >> all right. >> '24. >> tim scott, a lot of people watching the show will disagree with a lot of what he believes

in, but tim scott is an extraordinarily persuasive messenger for the republican party. he talks about the american dream. he had a father who, when he was on the sidewalks in south carolina in the 1920s, had to step off the sidewalk, couldn't look a white man in the eyes that he was passing by, and talks about how his grandfather never lost faith in the american dream. his family never lost faith in the american dream. here, you have a united states senator from south carolina who is running for president. it is a very strong, very persuasive message. but that message is never getting out. >> no. >> none of the messages are getting out right now because, again, donald trump is sucking up the oxygen in the room. coming up, the new warnings from civil rights groups on the amount of misinformation the 2024 election could see thanks to a ruling from a federal judge.

plus, what donald trump's former chief of staff reportedly told a grand jury about investigating two former fbi officials who were involved in the russia probe. that's all ahead on "morning joe." it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention.

social media companies like twitter have been cutting their content moderation staff and as researchers are pulling back on disinformation. the move comes alongside the rise of artificial intelligence, which may give bad actors the ability to put more effective

misinformation on the internet. we're learning new details about the d.c. based grand jury investigating former president donald trump's attempts to stop the transfer of power after his 2020 election loss. a new nbc news analysis reveals the grand jury has heard testimony from dozens of witnesses in the wide-ranging investigation that has examined the former president's conduct, spanning from the time before election day through the january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol. the witnesses called indicate that special counsel -- the special counsel probe has focused specifically on the so-called fake electors' scheme, in which false slates of electors from states trump lost would assert that he won. a total of 84 electors in seven swing states signed documents falsely declaring trump the

winner. former vice president pence is the highest profile witness to appear before the grand jury so far. he testified in late april after a court order to comply with a subpoena. just over a month before he announced he was challenging trump for president in 2024. former trump attorney rudy giuliani could soon lose his license to practice law in washington, d.c. on friday, a d.c. bar association disciplinary panel recommended giuliani's disbarment over his, quote, utter disregard for facts and the reckless lawsuit he filed to disqualify some votes in pennsylvania while trying to help former president trump overturn the 2020 election. according to the panel, giuliani, quote, claimed massive election fraud but had no evidence of it. the group goes on to say that by

prosecuting that destructive case, mr. giuliani, a sworn officer of the court, forfeited his right to practice law. the committee's findings will go to the full disciplinary board. if the board agrees, the matter will be sent to the d.c. court of appeals. the appeals court has final say regarding whether or not giuliani's license should be revoked. an attorney for giuliani says they plan to appeal the decision of the board on professional responsibility and, if necessary, the courts. >> i would say rudy giuliani and his attorneys are facing an uphill battle here. >> yeah. >> i suspect -- >> a smidge. >> -- going up to the top of the d.c. circuit. i suspect that that ruling will be upheld. let's bring in senior operations officer with the cia, mac polymeropoulos. thank you for being with us. last week, william burns published an article, "what u.s.

intelligence needs to do today and tomorrow," and then burns writes in part this, we face an equal threat to the international order and indeed the lives and livelihoods of our people from shared or transnational challenges of which the climate crisis poses the most clear and present danger. these two threats, geopolitical and transnational, are impossible to disentangle. competition makes cooperation more difficult, but we have to do more in a powerful force. a revolution in technology more profound than the industrial revolution or the dawn of the nuclear age. let me stop right there. there is more to read. i'm just going to stop there, though, because, marc, with this new technology coming on board, and it's been with us for some time, but a.i. is expanding exponentially now. if you mix russian disinformation, which the cia director talked about, combine

that with this a.i. revolution, which is every bit as dangerous as the dawn of the atomic age. we're going to be talking about "oppenheimer," the movie, an awful lot and what the u.s. government did to contain the proliferation of atomic secrets and later nuclear secrets. you look at this hands off approach that this federal judge is suggesting from last week. he is just opening the door to vladimir putin, to north koreans, to anybody, the chinese, to anybody else who wishes to do us ill, not only in 2024 but every day after that election. >> so i think this piece by bill burns was remarkable. you know, he is a titan of the national security team for president biden. he is someone who is admired by our allies. he is respected and feared by our enemies, and he has a key

intangible on this, the ear of the president. when bill burns speakspeaks, it behooves us to listen. he laid out challenges. some are, obviously, obvious. the challenge of china and russia. joe, what you talked about, as well, disinformation, a.i. i get a sense that burns is certainly up to the task, and, again, he is someone who has helped transform the intelligence community. there is a piece in the op-ed which i think is really important. this goes to a lot of what we talked about on "morning joe" the last several weeks and months, and it has to do with china. burns talks about strengthening our intelligence communication channels. think about that. even on this program today, we talked about the worry that the u.s. and china don't have a poll id military to military relationship. burns gets it. does this mean we're soft on china? no. we are up creasing the number of our mandarin speakers. we are spying on china. the idea we have channels, intelligence channels to deal with the chinese, really important in terms of managing

crises. there will be another spy balloon. i think burns recognizes that. >> talk about, though, when you read through burns' piece, talk about what he considers the greatest challenge, what he's most concerned about. >> so he talked about china as being the long-term pacing threat. russia is our immediate threat. again, he talked about technology, as well. and he also -- >> by the way, let's break that up really quickly, marc. i'm sorry. you brought up such a great point. he said our most immediate threat may be russia right now, but don't let that take your eyes off the long-term threat, which is china. mika, right now, what are we watching? >> president biden, who is being greeted by king charles iii at windsor castle. they're just walking in. we'll watch those pictures live while we continue our discussion. >> we're going -- yeah, going to continue the discussion. there's no doubt, though, those two leaders are going to be

talking about the environmental crisis that, of course, king charles iii has been focused on since the 1970s. also, bill burns says it is one of the great threats in coming years. but again, marc, going back to what we were saying, burns wanted americans to understand that while russia is the short-term concern right now, we shouldn't take our eye off the ball when it comes to china because that is our long-term strategic challenge. >> absolutely. you know, the u.s. government can sometimes act as an aircraft carrier. it takes a long time to pivot and move. but i think burns has really pushed the cia in that direction. there is a china mission center now, an entire unit devoted to china. again, better language capability, training more officers and analysts to work the chinese target. we have intelligence relationships around the world.

you know, designed specifically to collect on china, unilaterally with our spies and our partners. we also have to speak to the chinese. bill burns is the consummate diplomat. he is ambassador several times over. he served in senior positions at the state department. he has practiced what we call intelligence diplomacy, so he understands. china is a threat. it is our long-term concern, but we also have to talk to them. again, this is a subject we've spoken a lot about on this show here, of the need to have open communication channels. that's a good thing. >> i was struck by burns' analysis that the number -- that the second challenge after china is the challenge of pandemics and of, frankly, climate change. consider that we spent the last, you know -- go back 20 years ago, 2003, and our posture was

in the middle east primarily and how many resources we spent in iraq, which today, right now, i had to look at the temperature, it's 113 degrees. how is he leading a shift of u.s. intelligence from focusing on the middle east to the rest of the world, which poses a far more greater threat? >> i think he said something in the piece which was quite telling. he looked out across his office right now, you know, in northern virginia, and it was hazy. these wildfires that are sweeping in from canada. he understands there's the transnational issues. the pandemic which affected the world in a profound fashion. climate, as well. think about that from intelligence collection. in the past, you know, who would we want, who are we interested in? maybe it was a russian military officer, iranian nuclear scientist. you know, maybe it was a north korean missile engineer. how about if the u.s. intelligence flexes on things such as scientists, such as those working at things such as

the wuhan lab in china. what if we had better collection on that before? i think it is a reflection of the world in 2023 and beyond. again, the national security establishment moves slowly, but i think it is moving in the right direction. >> marc polymeropoulos, former senior right directions. >> mark, thank you very much for joining us. so we are watching president biden and king charles iii during the ceremony's welcoming the u.s. president to windsor castle. we'll continue our live coverage right here on "morning joe" after a quick break. after a qui. more shopping? you should watch your spending honey. i'm saving with liberty mutual, mom. they customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. check it out, you could save $700 dollars just by switching. ooooh, i'll look into that. let me put a reminder on my phone.

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love-15. ladies and gentlemen. please if you are opening a bottle of champagne, don't do

it -- >> oh, don't you love that. that is from an australia umpire looking after this match. >> nicest wimbledon warning i've ever heard. >> and that unique warning yesterday after a fan uncorked a bottle of champagne just as a player was about to serve. not cool. and on day 7, the 17-year-old russian advanced to the fourth round for the first time in her young career. andreeva now the youngest woman to make it to the last 16 at wimbledon since then 15-year-old coco gauff did back in 2019. and jessica pegula became just the fifth american in 25 years to reach the quarter finals at all four majors. meanwhile top ranked iga

advanced to her first wimbledon quarter final with a three set win over 14th seeded bencic. on the men's side, tiafa was upset in straight sets, and novak djokovic secured a two set lead before play was called about a half hour ahead of the 11:00 curfew. we'll have more ahead. also some live pictures from windsor castle where president biden is meeting with king charles iii. this is the first time the two have met since charles was crowned as king. we'll get a live report coming up from london. plus chris matthews joins the political discussion. also ahead, christopher nolan's new blockbuster oppenheimer opens in theaters next week. and this morning we will debut an exclusive behind the scenes

look at the making of the film. we'll hear directly from the movie's stars including killian murphy, matt damon, emily blunt and robert downey jr. mily blunt and robert downey jr

welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, july 10. ahead this hour, ukraine's president calls out donald trump. we'll show you what he said about trump's claims that he could end russia's invasion. i believe he said in one day. >> right. >> speaking of trump, is the former president due for his waterloo moment. we'll dig into that new piece in the "wall street journal" written by the great peggy noonan. and a live report from capitol hill on deadlines lawmakers face.

and what is going on with marjorie taylor greene. is she kicked out? >> she's adopted the costanza strategy. and speaking of which, your dream comes true this friday. >> it does. i don't know if i should tell them the awkward way in which i have watched seinfeld. and jason alexander plays a huge role in my life. >> why don't you tell dwornlg george costanza that when he comes here on friday. >> i'm sure he will love it. >> well, you can talk about it. >> i'll discuss it with him. and reverend al sharpton and elyse jordan are still with us. and joining the conversation, we have former msnbc host chris matthews is joining the conversation. great to have you on board. >> and we have job meeting with king charles iii before he gets

together with nato members. david ignatius earlier talked about how biden is going to this nato meeting with nato not only stronger than it has ever been but quite possibly the strongest alliance in the history of the world. and the biden white house quite confident that they can move erdogan to admit sweden in. guys, do we have the map? let's show chris the map. it is extraordinary what vladimir putin has done to himself but also what joe biden and nato has been able to manage. and that is a russia that is completely surrounded by nato allies. you look at the balkan sea as the admiral said, that is now the nato-like. >> you and me can put everything on the table starting at 6:00. it is all on the table now. tom friedman, i guess a couple

months ago, said joe biden has united nato has never before. his promise of uniting the united states, that is the challenge. and i know that richard haass said the other day in leaving the office -- leaving his post council of foreign relations, he said biggest challenge in the world today is us. so interesting how this whom thing is polarized. we're doing a great job in world leadership. level of fdr or eisenhower. we're building nato as it was built to be when it was first formed to stop russia's advancement and look at where we stopped him, at ukraine. that is where we stopped him. and balkans. s extraordinary what blinken and jake sullivan and the president have done. they are doing a great job. but here at home, this distinction where people can't say what you said in your article for the atlantic, they can't breathe it, they can't believe it, which is everything

is doing pretty well. we have inflation that has continued but it is going down. everything is going swimmingly. and we can't say so because on the left if you say that, you are not as scared enough of trump as you should be, and on the right you don't hate liberals and the establishment as much as you are supposed to. it is so disjointed about common sense thinking. >> it is weird. i know this goes against what most people in washington think. but actually common sense and somebody strong enough to not be afraid to bring this country together, i mean, americans are just hungering for it. and you look where america is right now and the fact that nobody is able to say this. our military, you remember the book from '87 i believe it was, david kennedy's rise and fall of the great powers.

he always said power was measured in a country's relative strength to the rest of the word. by that standard, america is stronger now militarily than anytime since world war ii. economically we're stronger than the rest of the world. there is not a close second. and chris, you start talking like americans go it is so horrible. texas has an economy larger than russia's. california -- which by the way, california is supposed to be like this marxist worth place in the world to live. fourth largest economy in the world. california's economy is bigger than france's, than great britain's, than canada's, than rising india. i could go down the list. our schools and universities, greatest on the planet. year in and year out. every international ranking.

we're at the top. and yet there is this -- by the way, in our economy jobs rates at an all-time low. and unemployment rates. three-fourths of americans say hey, we're doing pretty well. so where is that disconnect and what does the biden administration do, what does any administration do with this negativity? >> well, you could take it back to 1963 and the speech this west berlin. we may have problem, but we never had to build walls to keep people in. everybody in the world who gets sick that is death threatening, they come to the united states to get healed. that is a fact. our medicine, forget the issue with financing in many cases, but our medicine is supreme. our universities. prep schools, that is what they

want to do. and another thing that you are not missing, perhaps missing in your numbers in your article, if you deal with regular people in the retail level, you will notice a lot of people working today, and i say this very positively, would normally not be working. we have an unemployment rate so low that lot of people who are marginal getting jobs or getting through interviews have been able to get to work and they are there meeting with you at the front end, you meeting them as a customer. a lot of people working today that weren't working five years ago or ever. and that is a good thing. that is what every liberal has wanted. every liberal has said we want to push unemployment down so the people are marginal, that didn't get the great educations they deserve, didn't get the breaks in life, didn't get any offer, they are working. and they are working today. that is a fact. you can meet them at any retail level. and that is what liberals

wanted. >> joe wrote in the atlantic and we'll read a significant portion of it in the next block. but meanwhile ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is pushing back on donald trump's claim that he'd be able to end the war in ukraine within 24 hours. in an interview with abc news, zelenskyy said that trump already had an opportunity to end the war between ukraine and russia and missed his chance. >> translator: this desire should be based on some real life experience. it looks as if donald trump had already these 24 hours once in his time. we were at war. not full-scale war, but we were at war. and i assume he had the time at his disposal, but he must have had some other priorities. >> i mean, the priority -- >> fabulous. >> the priority was shaking down

zelenskyy. >> for dirt. >> again, just to speak slowly to trumpists that still believe in conspiracy theories about the first impeachment, congress passed legislation to send defensive weapons to ukraine. donald trump blocked those weapons to go to ukraine because he said that he wanted zelenskyy to get dirt on his political opponent and on his political opponent's family. that is the guy that says, oh, i could end this in a day? zelenskyy said he had hundreds of days to end this ongoing conflict since 2014. he never did it. in fact he did just the opposite. he actually blocked congress initially when they were trying to send weapons to ukraine. >> when congress was trying to send weapons to ukraine when it

could have made a real difference in deterring putin, donald trump was, exactly, he was politically playing games and using u.s. military might for political leverage. it wou b hilarious if it wasn't so sad. and i doubt there is even one single trump voter who actually believes that donald trump could solve this crisis in a day. they have gotten the package of his hyperbole is just built in at this point. >> i think also when you raise it, the whole idea of in the middle of this having to deal with this pompous brag dose i can't from trump, we are in the middle of a serious war.dose i can't from trump, we are in the middle of a serious war. there will be flack on biden in terms of the latest military decision

he's made in terms of the materials he's given them, but in the middle of it, the cluster bombs is what i'm trying to get in my head, in the middle of it though, to have trump with all of this is just not helpful. and i'm saying it as politely as i can. >> the chaos factor is what voters voted against in 2020 and gave president biden the margin to win, winning over independents, winning over disgruntled republicans. trump is just reminding voters of his volatility. >> and full outlying. peggy noonan has a new piece entitled may trump soon reach his waterloo. and she writes in part, this weekend i reread paul johnson's napoleon which came out in 2002, part of his series of brief lives. johnson results of the cult of

florida polian which is now pertinent. it was wide but it did not last. it had power in the moment, but it passed. reality settled in, history made its judgments. cultists changed the subject or added nuance when pressed to explain their previous support. back to now, chris christie could easily defeat joe biden. so could several of the gop candidates now in the field. donald trump wouldn't. for one big reason. his special super power is that he is the only republican who will you 00 night and rally democratic base and drive independents away. many bright trump supports sense this. but can't concede it and break away from him. this weekend at a party one of trump's supporters quickly made

his way to me to speak of his hero. he said surely he can admit he was a good president. he was all wound up, so i spoke slowly. i will tell you what he is. he is a bad man. i know it. and if you were a less courteous person, i would say that you know it too. he was startled. didn't reply. and literally took a step back. because i think he does know it. political cults are never good, often rise, always past. >> and i just have to correct something. when people go and the economy was so great. no, it was horrific. worst four years since hubert hoover. even before covid, he was responsible for so much. >> so many deaths.

>> the mishandling of covid, denying that it was coming, not preparing businesses. and then the shutdowns lasted longer because of it. and even before covid, he ranked seventh since 1960 in gdp. jimmy carter had gdp growth that was higher than donald trump's, but donald trump just kept repeating it over and over again and the news people would repeat it and people following him would repeat it. >> it is not true. >> he was not a good president when it came to the economy even though he helped the richest 0.01% in the world. in the country. and so, chris, there is peggy noonan talking about when the fever breaks. we've been wondering when that fever is going to break for some time. i'm not so sure it has to break all the way when you have 20%, 25% of republicans saying that they would never vote for him.

you know, you need 1% or 2% to swing this way or that in wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania for an election to completely get out of the reach of donald trump. >> yeah, i think it is the same seven or eight states that we saw in '16 and '20 that will decide this election, whether wisconsin, georgia and arizona or pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin. it is in that group of states that will make up their mind. i think trump is following a strategy, maybe i'd be right about this, but i think that he has been dragging along desantis as his main boxing partner, his sparring partner. i watched him yesterday in iowa. he really wants to keep one opponent out there, one opponent that he can beat in iowa and new hampshire and then get rid of them all. with christie coming on after him as a problem but not a real threat. i'm not sure that christie could beat him being a total trump opponent. whereas desantis is not really

an opponent. he is ready to jump on the ticket if he can, if not on the ticket, support him at the convention in milwaukee. i think that trump is trying to carry one opponent at a time and that is desantis. and i watched him do it in iowa with farmers issue, agricultural issues. he wants to keep one guy in the field against him so he can beat him early on. i think that is what he's up to. >> let me ask you about joe biden on the other side. we always talk about how he is the most underestimated guy, written off as finished after iowa, new hampshire in 2020. and joe biden has always been underestimated, always been mocked, ridiculed. going back to the '87 campaign. but under estimated there. he is too old to win in 2020. he ends up winning. and then underestimated, this poor old man thinks that he can get bipartisan legislation. he passes more in two years than

anybody else since reagan or lbj. and then it is, oh, but he's still too old, we'll get crushed during the midterms. he ends up having the best midterms -- first term midterm if you look at governors' races being picked up. go back to fdr's midterm to compare a president that did as well as he did. and then, you know, as soon as that, they are like, yeah, okay, great, well, he's still too old. and then he delivers a state of the union that works. but we hear it day in and day out. i know you hear it day in and day out. he's too old to run. and that is coming from a lot of democratic insiders. what do you think? >> well, insiders is a good phrase. it is the insiders that are chattering about the vice president and whether she should be on the ticket. but she will be on the ticket and he will be the nominee. it won't be bobby kennedy jr. it will be him. it will be a stark -- it is all

true, they are all facts on the tublg. trump said on abortion that he is trying to say that the evangelicals caused the whole problem with roe and everything. he was the one attacking roe. he was the one saying that there needs to be some form of punishment for women having an abortion. so this is him. it is him who was opposing any aid to ukraine. it was him, he keeps attacking himself. he is the villain, he has caused all the trouble politically for the republicans. they are on the wrong side of history with the russians. they should be embarrassed had they are supporting the russian, but they are. they are questioning nato. he wanted everyone to pony up more money to be a part of nato. he wanted fewer members. he is the bad guy. and that is an awful thing to say about another human being, but he is the villain of his own story. >> absolutely.

amen. and chris matthews, thank you very much. we appreciate you being on. >> always great talking to you. and so nearly two years after voting against the 2021 infrastructure bill, republicans are now welcoming the arrival of new federal money the measure brings to their states. as the "washington post" reports, nearly two years after congress finalized the first in a series of measures to improve the nation's aging infrastructure and combat climate change, some of the gop lawmakers are now welcoming the spending. they have privately courted newly available federal money to improve their local roads, bridges, pipes, ports and internet connections and publicly celebrated when their cities and states have secured a portion of the aid. the "post" continues the dynamic has created some uncomfortable contrasts since those same gop lawmakers still maintain that

president biden's legislative agenda has served as a drag on the nation's economy. worsening inflation. the white house meanwhile has seized on republicans shifting tone as part of its new campaign to promote bidenomics. you always remember biden saying i'll see you at the ground breaking. >> reverend al, how hypocritical. here you have all these republicans that were saying they were voting against this bill and that bill and yet they send out press releases and have press conferences when joe biden's legislation that they voted against, complained about, actually brings dollars to their district hes. >> and i thought it was very good politically and showed good political skills when the president reminded people that the senator from alabama that was taking bows voted against

the legislation. and then when president biden goes last week as mika referred to and said by the way i'm cutting the ribbon in marjorie taylor greene's district, that will provide jobs. i mean, it will be hard to counter a guy that delivers and you are voting against what he delivered. >> these people. let's bring in senior national political reporter sahil kapur. he is following major deadlines coming up soon including a government funding battle sparking new fears of a shutdown. what is the latest? >> well, congress is back today after a few weeks off and they have some big deadlines staring them in the face. let's put up the three most significant one all for september 30. they have to fund the development, they have to pass a new farm bill, and they have to reauthorization the faa. the one generating a lot of fear at the moment is the government

funding issue specifically because the house and senate are operating on two very different paths. house republicans are moving forward with appropriations that funds the government at a lower level than the budget caps agreed to in that resident limit law that passed in june. a lot of ultra conservatives are not happy with that agreement and they are pushing for passing a government funding bill at a lower level. in addition house republicans have already begun to move as part of the legislation, conservative policies including abortion restrictions, anti-lgbtq measures, as well as repealing parts of president biden's "inflation reduction act." why? put up what congressman chip roy said. he says they are not happy with the deal saying we have major disagreements with both how and what occurred with respect to the debt ceiling increase so now trying to put the band back together again. and speaker kevin mccarthy and the top house operator have

green lit the effort to move forward with a lower funding deal. in the senate they are operating in a very different way. they are moving forward with budget caps agreed to in the deal and moving on a bipartisan basis without anything that either side considers a poison pill. senator schumer emphasized the bipartisan nature of the work saying in the senate we are working diligently through regular order on a bipartisan basis to advance appropriation bills. also in the senate note that patty murray and susan collins are issuing joints statements, passing operations bills on unanimous vote, determined to move forward on a bipartisan basis. and if you read between the lines, they are signaling that the senate will reassert itself after it took a back seat in the debt limit fight. one of these trains will have to swerve or we're headed for a crash and a shutdown. >> sahil kapur, thank you very much for your reporting.

still ahead on "morning joe," as promised, we'll read from joe's new piece in the "atlantic" entitled america is doing just fine. plus we'll dig into the big debate in europe right now about whether ukraine should be granted nato membership now or after the war. e war. humpty dumpty does it with a great fall. wonderful pistachios. get crackin' from prom dresses to workouts and new adventures you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in the past they may be missing vaccination for meningitis b. although uncommon, up to 1 in 5 survivors of meningitis will have long term consequences. now as you're thinking about

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welcome back. we've been talking about this week's nato summit and america's place on the world stage. joe has a new piece for the "atlantic" published just this morning entitled america is doing just fine. in which you argue that, quote, uncle sam deserves a modern day atticus finch to argue his case before the american people. and liberals once gained favor by attacking the pentagon's top

brass but now it is republican members of congress who longingly swoon over russia's manly military while trashing u.s. generals and our men and women in uniform. those gop attacks come despite the fact that america's military is more powerful today relative to the rest of the world than at anytime since the second world war. unlike in years past, american allies no longer grouse about the u.s. leading from behind or burrowing itself into a self-defeating america first hole. instead, the u.s. is first among equals in a dynamic and expanding nato alliance that just added a new member with more than 800 miles of russian border and that has provided a devastating response to vladimir putin's illegal invasion of ukraine. looking east, the united states has finally begun its pivot to asia, strengthening military

cooperation with japan, the philippines, guam, south korea and australia. the current disruption this u.s.-sino relations may have less do with spy balloons and diplomatic missteps than with xi jinping's rational fear of being hemmed in by u.s. military presence. president biden's recent diplomatic overtures independent india were likewise calculated to contain ambitions. childhood poverty has dropped to the lowest level on record. teenage pregnancy has done the same. the u.s. dollar has experienced generational highs the past year. unemployment recently hit a 54 year low. the number of job openings this past year also hit record highs. overall, the u.s. economy continues to surge forward despite economists dire

predictions. america's gdp grew to $25 trillion last year. texas has a bigger economy than russia. and although california is routinely rebuked by right wing critics, it has the fourth strongest economy in the world, stronger than britain, france or india. the united states and its european allies collectively run an economic machine that doubles china's stagnating output. despite record debt levels, stubborn inflation and other structural challenges, american capitalism continues to drive and dominate the world economy. though fulsome defense of uncle sam often requires die electricity cal thinking. but remember even with all of its failings, america as fed and freed more human beings than any

other country in history. and your country is doing pretty damn well. we'll talk more about this in our 9:00 a.m. hour when doug brinkley joins the conversation. also ahead, donald trump and ron desantis aren't just battling for voters in iowa, they are battling for the state's governor too. we'll talk to the reporter behind that story in the "new york times" when "morning joe" comes right back. when "morning " comes right back

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welcome back. we read from joe's "atlantic" column in the last block. and my brother ian has new piece out at well entitled ukraine needs nato membership not an israel model. former u.s. deputy writes in part this approach, an alternative to ukraine's

membership in nato, is a mistaken application of israel's geopolitical circumstances one that would indefinitely perpetuate russia's aggression. israel's adversaries are not major powers. kyiv confronts a far more significant adversary. moscow's determination to obliterate ukraine and its history far exceeds the collective intensity of israel's adversaries. as long as nato is not fully committed to defending the security of ukraine, putin will continue his violent quest especially if he believes continuing the conflict is the key to preventing ukrainian membership in the alliance. putin must not be given indefinite veto. granting nato membership to ukraine is critical to ensuring it wins the war against russia quickly and decisively. it is the most unambiguous way

to demonstrate to putin that suborning ukraine is unachievable and wasteful and most reliable way to ensure such aggression never happens again. >> and what is so fascinating about that argument, ian brzezinski's father made off and on at times. a question that vexed american foreign policy leaders for quite a very long time. not just because of the threat from russia, but because of the challenges internally in ukraine. but right now ian brzezinski and colonel vinminute, a lot of republicans are saying that joe biden needs to actually go further, be stronger, and admit ukraine into nato right now. what are your thoughts? >> it was interesting to me that president biden struck such a

hard line saying now is not the time given putin is at a point of weakness. and ukrainians are armed pretty much as well as they have been at any point in the war. and are expected to have a great offensive going forward. and so putin is really at a weak point. so why not keep the pressure going there. it was odd to me that that was one of -- that that was such a strong statement. and while i'm not necessarily sure that ukraine should be admitted right now, just completely dismissing the possibility down the road seems like that plays into putin's hand at a time when he's weak. coming up, we'll go live to london where president biden is meeting with leaders there ahead of the nato summit in lithuania. a full preview of his jam-packed schedule is straight ahead on "morning joe." on "morning joe."

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it is like house republicans, they work so hard day in and day out to make democrats' lives easier politically. right? so now what are they doing, now they are attacking america's premiere law enforcement agency. they are attacking the very people who protect us from the islamic terrorists that they have warned us about for so many years. they are attacking the same people that try to ship fentanyl into this country and kill our children. those same people who are trying to stop that every single day, that stop drug gangs every

single day. that break up white collar crime rings. and people who are trying to steal your parents and grandparents' money on telephones with all the scams. that is what the fbi does every day and the doj of course helps as well. but republicans are at war with them because they actually tried to stop donald trump from stealing nuclear secrets and keeping they will from the united states government. so i think that the democrats should send them a big baket of edible flowers or something. >> specifically house republicans who are reportedly considering taking action against the fbi and department of justice. according to a new report from politico, that push will become a cornerstone of republicans' agenda in a chaotic back half of the year.

speaker kevin mccarthy has already threatened to explore impeaching attorney general merrick garland. conservatives have also gone after fbi director christopher wray weighing whether to force a vote to recommend booting him from office. additionally some conservatives who believe that agencies have targeted republicans are eager to cut the law agency's budgets. for more, let's bring in the reporter behind this piece and also with us correspondent ali vitali who took on "way too early" duties this morning. thank you. and jordan, let's start with you. what is the strategy these house republicans are taking? >> yeah, so you will see this sort of play out in three ways going into the back half of the year. this week christopher wray will be before the judiciary committee testifying. and they have investigations,

impeachment chatter around the attorney general. they are looking at using government funding legislation that will kind of come to a head as we head towards the back half of the year. and then they have the surveillance debate which has bipartisan overtones but you will see it be a vehicle for some of the party's frustrations with the fbi in particular. >> and we were talking earlier in the show about how these house republicans are trashing u.s. generals now, some are trashing u.s. troops. now they are trashing the fbi, trashing the doj all because of donald trump's perceived slights from these agencies. and in the fbi's case because they actually had to go into get the huge clear secrets and other military secret that's had stolen from the u.s. government. i would guess there has to be some consternation among other house republicans and certainly among senate republicans in this war against law enforcement.

>> there definitely are. because we're both old enough to remember when republicans were going after democrats for defund the police. and here you have some people saying that they should be defunding either prosecutors or the fbi in some cases. this is now so topsy-turvy with the way republicans are talking about law enforcement that certainly i have heard it from moderate republicans who have to defend tough seats this the house or in the senate that this is not where they want their focus to be. instead you talk to senate republicans who say they want this to be a conversation about how they have stopped various points of the biden agenda, but also found ways to work with him on things going forward. that is not a focus on impeaching christopher wray or merrick garland, instead that is a focus on permitting reform and something down the pipeline in the defense authorization act. that is where the focus wants to be on the senate side. but on the house republican side, we're seeing a focus of

the red meat stuff that we talk about with trump, continuing to fight culture wars, pushing forward on abortion restrictions and nothing to say of the impeachment battles. and this week we have to figure out what you were talking about earlier, which is marjorie taylor greene this or out of the house freedom caucus. and the freedom caucus is so powerful in this current republican conference and they are basically kicking her out because she had colorful conversations with some of her colleagues like lauren boebert, but, she's also too much of an ally with kevin mccarthy who this entire conference -- >> coming up, a behind the scenes look at the making of "oppenheimer" about the father of the atomic bomb. we'll play it for you first right here on "morning joe." n ""

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i am in search of another planet in the universe where life exists. i can't see this planet with my naked eyes or even with the most powerful telescopes that we currently possess, but i know that it's there. and understanding contradictions that occur in nature will help us find it. i'm an african-american female astronomer and an actor who loves to wear makeup and read fashion magazines. i am uniquely positioned to understand contradictions in nature and how they can inform our search for the next planet where life exists. my organization rising star girls teaches astronomy to middle schoolgirls of color,

using theater, writing and visual arts. that's another contradiction. science and art don't often go together, but interweaving them can help these girls to maybe one day join the astronomers that are full of contradictions and discover we are truly not alone in the universe. >> during her 2016 ted talk discussing her work as an astronomer and her search for life in the greater universe. she details all of this in her new book entitled "life on other planets, a memoir of finding my place in the universe." it tells a story of how to create a life that has space for love, wonder and joy while digging into the question are we alone. dr. shields joins us now.

congratulations on the book. in the book do we get closer to the answer or closer to the important facets of life, including joy? >> i'm so honored to be here. the answer is all of the above. you get to understand what our place in the universe can be and is and how so much of what we plan and want and dream for ourselves can start with how we feel about ourselves, whether we are into science or art or something that we haven't quite allowed to be present in our lives. there's truly this infinite amount of possibilities. >> this is also somewhat of a personal story. tell us a little bit about your connection to all of this, what drives your passion to find these answers. >> yes. so i've always felt like a bit of a rare magical unicorn in

that i had these two things that i loved, astronomy and acting and they were seemingly very far apart. as the book shows, there was a long path i took to realizing that i didn't have to figure out how to combine the two. however, it was important for me to accept that i had this background and it was nontraditional and i could do it differently. just because i didn't have a role model for what i wanted to do didn't mean that i couldn't do it. i could be my own role model. i wanted other people out there who may have multiple interests or might have left a dream somewhere along the way and they're coming back to it a little later in life or they have this feeling of being called to do something they're not yet doing. i wanted them to know they're not alone. i realized i'm not as much of a

rare magical unicorn as i thought i was. i receive e-mails from people all over the world. they have to embrace their whole selves and their full potential. >> can i just say this is one of those moments on the show where it's so special to be here because you have someone so dynamic like dr. shields. you are one of only 26 black women who ever receive a phd in astrophysics. >> true. >> that's incredible. you also have your msa in acting. with your career did you ever have an aha moment where you realized you could combine the two passions of acting and your love of the stars and the world above. >> i did. >> great book. >> so i started my phd program

in astronomy right out of undergrad. during that first year i was divided because i had done acting and had seen how much i love that. so i left. there was a lot of self-doubt. i listened to some comments that i internalized and let that feed that self-doubt. then i went away and did the other dream, acting. coming back over a decade later to astronomy, i felt like i had to sweep that acting side, the humanities side under the rug to be taken seriously as a scientist. i had a mentor during that second phd program in astronomy tell me, your theater background is your super power. it was like a light bulb went off in my head. i didn't have to ignore it or deny it. i could own it. it's with my background and i was going to be an astronomer

like no human being is powerful enough to tell me that i don't belong in this field. i get to decide that. with the universe's help, if i'm meant to be here, i could trust i was there for a reason. unless i was given a sign i wasn't supposed to be there by someone other than a human, i could continue to do that. then that shift in my mind changed everything, because i was able to see how the acting background fuelled the work that i did as a scientist. we give talks a lot about astronomy. that acting training allows me to transmit the wonder and the awe that i first discovered as a child in the universe with my students. >> the book is entitled "life on

other planets, a memoir of finding my place in the universe." what an amazing story and an amazing book. thanks for being on this morning. >> thank you so much. >> good to have you. it's the top of our fourth hour now of "morning joe," 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. ahead, donald trump and florida governor ron desantis have been spending time with voters in iowa, also trying to win the support of the state's governor kim reynolds as well. plus, more fallout from the pga tour's partnership with liv golf, a prominent tour board member is resigning over the deal. later on this hour, an exclusive behind the scenes look at the making of "oppenheimer." it's debuting first right here on "morning joe." >> what an incredible movie. i got to see a screening.

>> emily blunt. >> robert downey jr. christopher nolan, extraordinary director. but we have sort of a first look, exclusive first look at the movie we're going to play for you a little bit later this hour. first, we're following this morning's developing news out of england, where president biden arrived at windsor castle not long ago and was greeted by king charles iii. the two stood for a rendition of the star spangled banner before walking out to inspect the troops assembled to welcome the president. this is the first time president biden has met with now kick charles since he ascended to the

throne. president biden heads to lithuania for tomorrow's nato summit. let's bring in peter alexander live outside buckingham palace. >> reporter: good morning. the president arriving late yesterday and early today beginning his visit with a face-to-face meeting with the british prime minister sunak at 10 downing street. the president right now is meeting with king charles. he missed the king being crowned back in may. the first lady came in the president's stead. the real focus of their conversation is on the topic of those climate initiatives. as you noted, the president later today is going to head to lithuania for that nato summit in lithuania, just a few hundred

miles away from the fighting in ukraine. the summit comes at a key time as ukraine has been struggling to get traction in the counteroffensive in that country and as vladimir putin is seeing cracks in his military leadership after that recent rebellion by the head of the wagner group. so president biden will be there trying to solidify the west, nato support for ukraine at this critical time. he did douse president zelenskyy's bid to try to have ukraine added to nato. it's possible zelenskyy arrives for the summit. he's threatened that he may not go if he doesn't get a real signal from the nato allies that they will be allowing ukraine in. the president saying he doesn't think nato is ready right now, noting that in the middle of the war if ukraine joined nato, they would begin a world war of some kind. speaking to bill taylor, the

former u.s. ambassador to ukraine, he says what ukraine is looking for is not to be added to nato right now, but a concrete signal that they will be added in the future. and the decision to send those cluster munitions, that controversial weapon to ukraine. it refers to these explosives, these bomblets. it's controversial because not all of them explode. it's been banned by 100 countries, the u.k. and france included among others. president biden saying this is a temporary move to try to help the ukrainians right now because it's critical for them since

they're running low on ammunition. >> trying to get erdogan's turkey to allow sweden to become a member of nato, the white house seems to think that is tied up. how is the nato alliance? are most members still standing shoulder to shoulder with ukraine? >> reporter: there certainly are divisions in terms of their willingness to stay with this, recognizing the real impact and the real concern as we head into the 2024 election at home that the president needs to fortify this effort now, get all the aid that he can now. when 2024 comes, a lot of these allies realize this war effort has to reach its conclusion in the not too distant future.

president biden will face those real questions. i don't think the topic of cluster munitions is going to be top of mind and maybe not even the issue of whether ukraine is allowed to join nato right now. there is a real sense and concern among some of the allies specifically relating to the counteroffensive and what real progress is being made right now by the ukrainians, with the concern if this continues to draw that there's a real sense there is no good exit without continuing to take more and more resources away from western allies. >> thank you very much for that report. let's bring in professor of history at rice university doug brinkley.

>> we're all technically challenged. doug brinkley, it seems that every summer we see presidents going back to when we were younger men going back to seeing reagan on the 40 th anniversary of d day. it seems presidents go back and get to europe in this case for this nato meeting. talk about, if you will, where we stand today compared to, say, five years ago with an ever expanding, ever vital nato and an ever strengthening united states. >> you mentioned ronald reagan when he went to europe in 1984. he was, like biden, up for reelection. he had in february of '84 a 27%

approval rating in foreign policy. by the time he went to normandy and gave the speeches, both times just like we're watching king charles iii right now, reagan shot up in the polls as a foreign policy president. for biden, in addition to talking climate change with king charles iii and getting sweden into nato, he needs to come back with a feeling that he is the representative of global democracy, that the european alliance is going well and that understand his presidency he continued what bill clinton started, which was nato enlargement. if you look at the map you're putting up, you'll see ukraine is looking quite isolated there with a united europe and then russia. it's been a significant foreign policy presence of joe biden. just doesn't always garner the

media credit it deserves. >> it's not jingoism to talk about the abject failure of president putin's effort in ukraine. it's made finland and sweden, countries that would have never moved to join nato, move. could you put into historical perspective for us the grand failure of this invasion and just how historically people will view it 20, 40, 100 years from now? >> the soviet union made a mistake when they invaded afghanistan and paid for it mightily. in some ways it contributed to the breakup of the soviet union in 1991.

this overreach, this russian expansion is going to be seen as one of the great boondoggles of all time. president putin right now as we speak, his russian army, if you get wounded, you can't even get treated. they don't even have mash-like units to take care of their own soldiers. he's proving to have a military that's second or third rank, not first rank. he's done the unthinkable of totally united europe, in many ways the world against him. i was glad to see this opening now with china, small but with yellen and john kerry going there on climate talks and with blinken's work. if biden can pull off a dialogue that we're with china and get china to back off russia just a little bit, putin is utterly isolated. it's ukraine forever as far as the nato alliances. >> when you talk about president

biden just being able to say there's some dialogue starting with china, secretary of treasury yellen just leaving there, and you see what happened with prigozhin and apparently putin looking weaker than people thought, does this give also a climate for biden to be able to emerge even stronger as he's there meeting with nato, because you have putin being challenged in terms of his omnipotence as well as the little opening in china? does this give a better platform for biden? >> it's a great question, reverend al. what richard nixon did quite astutely was his triangulation with china when he went in 1972. it infuriated russia. any time there's a thaw in our tensions with china, it's putin's worst day.

it's not biden himself making the visit to china, but he sent yellen over there to start talking real. i think there's a connection between that and john kerry talking climate in a serious way with china. as we're sitting here, we have king charles iii and joe biden talking climate. so there's a feeling that the united states isn't doing badly in the foreign policy arena. we are still are the leader. biden deserves a lot of credit for that. he's so far i think very astutely played the ukraine situation. no, ukraine cannot become part of nato. a war on one country is a war on another in nato. i believe biden is doing everything he can to fortify ukraine, which is a good thing. >> let's talk about president biden's goals when it comes to the environment, which obviously

your recent book looks at the environmental activism, but also with the temperatures here in the states at record levels from around the world and also biden meeting with king charles right now talking about climate change. >> you know, mika, king charles iii has been on the climate issue for 50 years. he was talking climate in a big time way before al gore. if there's one issue that he's really informed and passionate about, this is this. but what does it mean? how many conferences can we have? how many summits? meanwhile, the world is just burning. hopefully biden will come away from this meeting with nato with a renewed commitment of looking at the global security issues related to climate, meaning, how it's going to affect the poorer nations of the world and what

can we do to speed up getting off of fossil fuels. >> doug, thank you for that. we're going to move to politics now. the iowa republican party will hold its first in the nation caucus on january 15th of next year. that date is martin luther king, jr. day. when asked about why the gop caucus would be held on that federal holiday, the chairman of the iowa republican party said, quote, we see this as honoring the legacy of martin luther king, jr. >> meanwhile, republican candidates are not only looking to win over voters there, but the state republican governor as well. >> on thursday governor kim reynolds took part in an event with the wife of ron desantis, casey desantis, following several recent appearances with the florida governor himself. just one day later, when donald trump campaigned in the state, reynolds was noticeably absent

let's bring in national political reporter from the "new york times" shane goldmacher. he's part of the "new york times" team. what's going on with the governo clearly absent for trump. was that purposeful? >> the reason we're talking about iowa is it is the first state and it is where ron desantis and his allies want to stop donald trump's momentum. the governor has been giving help to ron desantis. she's appeared with him three times in the state already. she just appeared with his wife. she wasn't there with donald trump when he was just there. this story is about the fight with kim reynolds, the very popular republican governor of iowa. she has pledged technical

neutrality. the trump team is saying this is neutrality in name only and she's beginning to put her thumb on the scale for ron desantis. >> iowa really is where desantis has to stop donald trump and show momentum if he has any hope at all in this republican primary. what was the sense you got from talking to republican activists in iowa? >> the sense is the same in iowa and nationally at the moment, which is that donald trump is far ahead in this race. you're right, the desantis team has bet big on iowa. his super pac has a facility just outside the outskirts of des moines where they're training what they say is more than 2,000 doorknockers to try to get caucus voters. it is a small town operation in iowa. not that many people vote.

the desantis people say, trump may be popular, but we're going to go door to door and try to win over these votes. >> doug brinkley, just wondering what this republican field is looking like to you. there's trump and then there's the others. with ron desantis having some trouble. >> ron desantis has not run a very distinguished campaign. he seems to be a child, goofing around all the time, saying kind of inane things. iowa is a must for him. let's make the leap that trump wins iowa. i think trump will win new hampshire and south carolina. those are two good states for trump. everything is about iowa. can somebody really beat donald trump in that state when there are that many people running? it seems unlikely.

but desantis, who was supposed to be the great challenger seems to thus far be disappointing his donors. >> you know, reverend al, you followed the twists and turns of politics from iowa to new hampshire to south carolina to the white house. things change so quickly. i mean, at this point in the 2008 campaign, being the summer of 2007, every article written said that john mccain was finished, his campaign was going bankrupt, they were having to fire people, that there was no way he was going to win. instead that was our first year on the air and we were all talking about giuliani versus clinton. ended up, of course, being mccain and obama. anything can change over the next year, can't it? >> oh, absolutely. let's not forget we may see one

or two more indictments on donald trump and what will be the impact there. we may see all kinds of things happen. you can have others that can still enter the race. i think none of this means, though, that this will help desantis rise. it could help some of the other candidates. you look at the array of candidates. so for us to sit here today and act like it's over and not have seen what happens when jack smith finishes his investigation, what happens in georgia and do some of the voters start saying, well, i can deal with a guy that was indicted twice, but if he's indicted four what we don't know. the thing that i think professor brinkley brings up is just because your main act may not

have the band together doesn't mean your opening act is ready for prime time. that's the problem desantis is having. he's a bad opening act. i wasn't put him in the show right now. he can't sing. >> he can't hear the music. >> changing the name. i don't get it. presidential historian doug brinkley, thank you for being on this morning. coming up on "morning joe," dom chu joins us live for the resignation of a prominent pga tour board member over the proposed merger with the saudi-backed liv circuit. plus, meta's answer to twitter is drawing users at a record pace. the latest surrounding the new threads app. threads app. >

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look at that. a sunny morning in los angeles. it's 6:26. >> finally, the sun. >> the dodger in first place going into the all star break. more senior citizens in the united states are dealing with substance use disorder. >> a study based off a federal survey last year found 2% of medicare beneficiaries 65 and older reported a substance use disorder. that's about 900,000 seniors.

more than 87% of them said they abused alcohol. over 8% said they abused opioids, primarily prescription pain relievers. only 6% said they made an effort to seek treatment. former at&t executive randall stephenson has resigned his position on the pga tour's influential policy board. in a letter dated saturday, he writes he has serious concerns about the tour's controversial partnership with the saudi backed liv golf circuit. the resignation comes just days before pga tour officials are scheduled to testify before a key senate subcommittee tomorrow. >> jay monaghan, of course, the head of the pga, who was so concerned when liv first started off, was really upset that golfers would golf for a country that he said was responsible for september 11th.

>> now something's changed, i guess. >> he's the guy that connected it, but i guess he's fine with the money now. >> a controversial relationship. let's bring in cnbc's dom chu for more. >> the randall stephenson story is huge with regard to the type of person who is now kind of casting a little bit more of light on what's been happening with liv and the pga tour. stephenson was former ceo of at&t, which is still a title sponsor of two pga tour events. the resignation comes after 12 years of service on that policy board that you mentioned. what's interesting is the resignation letter from the board that was obtained by the post talked not just about concerns about the finances, about the proposed merger, this funding from saudi arabia's public investment fund, but also

because of the death of journalist jamal khashoggi, which was reportedly part of the reason why stephenson could not support the merger. also on the social media front, i don't know if you guys are active yet on threads, but it has garnered over 100 million users since going live just this past wednesday. it's signed up users faster than even chat gpt. it get 100 million users. instagram has over 2 billion active users. you can just sign up on threads via instagram. >> dom, can i stop you there for a second? they're sitting at 100 million.

twitter was already having economic problems before this happened. you had a $44 billion buy. he brought in somebody that we know and like very much who was going to straighten things out. she's been given just a mammoth job. it seems to me an almost impossible job, because there's been one disruption after another disruption. twitter has, what, 300 million users it's been building since 2006, 2007. threads picked up a third of that in a weekend. >> it's not just that. from a business standpoint, it's always been about the advertising money coming out of facebook and meta. meta is known for being a juggernaut when it comes to online advertising. twitter has been an advertising supported business, but it hasn't been nearly the kind of

powerhouse when it comes to that kind of thing that facebook, that instagram, whatsapp, now threads and everything else has for meta platforms. to bring in somebody like lynn linda yaccarino. to have somebody like that come in is a signal that you want to make your business abouttizing. this is very much a situation where twitter, privately held by elon musk, and linda yaccarino are the david in this scenario trying to go after a goliath. threads is threat enough that elon musk has now threatened to sue meta platforms because they say they've taken trade secrets to make this whole threads predict out there. it's also about the personalities involved. we talk about this kind of cage match that's maybe going to

happen between mark zuckerberg and elon musk. musk was active this weekend on twitter, kind of going after zuckerberg on a number of fronts, personal attacks in some ways. this is very much a drama that's playing out because of the personalities involved, much more than the businesses here. of course, we're talking about two of the richest people in the world in history. it's something that's going to be kind of curious. advertisers are going to have to take note, only because you wonder whether or not this kind of attention is something that corporate advertisers really do want, guys. >> you started talking about yellen in china. finish that thought, if you could. >> so we've wrapped up the visit. the treasury secretary has become the second high profile member to make the trek over to china. antony blinken, the secretary of state, did it last month.

ten hours is roughly what she had in terms of meetings and high-level talks. she met with finance ministers, the heads of the bank of china, the chinese premier. the message was that secretary yellen said there's always going to be disagreements between these two countries, but that communication lines have to and should remain open. by the way, this was a sentiment echoed for the record by former remarks by china's ministry of finance. it seems like this was a productive trip. i don't believe anybody characterized any breakthrough happening, but it's still a move in the right direction. >> cnbc's dom chu, thank you very much. still ahead, a "morning joe" exclusive. we're bringing you a behind the scenes look at the making of christopher nolan's new epic black buster "oppenheimer" next right here on "morning joe." "o right here on "morning joe."

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. ♪♪ ten, nine, eight -- >> oppenheimer was saying to himself, i must remain conscious. i must remain conscious. >> seconds are hours. >> five, four, three, two -- >> and all of a sudden -- [ explosion ] >> -- the whole place lit up. >> that was a clip from the documentary titled "end all war, oppenheimer and the atomic bomb" which aired on msnbc last night. the anniversary of that fateful successful test in 1945. the documentary is now streaming

on peacock. next friday is the premier of "oppenheimer," an extraordinary film. i had an opportunity to see in imax. it was breathtaking, unlike any other movie i've seen in terms of completely absorbing the viewer into the movie experience. it's a new blockbuster film by christopher nolan. has a stellar ensemble cast and takes a look at this complicated man behind this pivotal moment in history. here's a look at the making of "oppenheimer". >> this is a national emergency. our work here will ensure a peace mankind has never seen. >> the world will remember this day. >> this is arguably the most

important story of our time. >> the stakes really couldn't be any higher. >> it's profound, but it's told in a very human way. >> everything chris nolan has done has been a prelude to this. >> it's not a film. this is an experience. it is a heart in your mouth thriller. >> i've been interested in oppenheimer's story for a long time. at some time, i learned this key piece of information. they were dealing with the very small possibility that when they pushed that button, it would set fire to the atmosphere of the earth and destroy the entire planet, and yet they pushed that button. i wanted to take the audience into that extraordinary moment in human history. >> three, two, one, zero. >> all of america's industrial might and scientific innovation

connected here, a secret laboratory. >> cillian playing oppenheimer was the center piece of the film. i knew he was going to need the most extraordinary ensemble around him. >> the people involved in the manhattan project were charismatic individuals. >> the world that oppenheimer inhabits is filled with rock star scientists. because we have all these fantastic actors, you really buy that. >> it felt like i was playing sports with some of the best athletes. every single person comes to set knowing they have been hired because somewhere along the line chris thought you did a good job. this goes for the crew as well. >> action! >> my preference is to always do things in camera as much as possible. that's a big challenge to bring the reality of the thing there for the actors. >> every crew member on this film has to adjust their work for the imax screen.

>> imax can contain 18k resolution per frame, which is by far more than any digital camera. it gets thrown up on a gigantic screen. the quality is unprecedented. >> this is the story of america in the 20th century. i think it can be painted on that big of a canvas. what better way to do that than with imax cameras. >> why would we go to the middle of nowhere? >> i always try to use real locations as much as possible. the more things can just be real and the better they'll feel to the audience. >> there's no studio work on this film. everything is location. the sets were built in such a way that they felt incredibly authentic. >> this is very important. i based all of this on research. we built all of these buildings

360. we wanted to feel like you are right there. you are in this. this is happening, this is real, this isn't a back lot. >> it's the most transporting thing when you're there and it looks exactly like los alamos 1940s looked. no detail has been overlooked. >> we shot in oppenheimer's house, in los alamos, in princeton. >> walking through princeton, it's really very funny, because people were walking around like -- [ laughter ] >> shooting those scenes, playing the characters who really had versions of these events happen there, you just get a real charge out of it, you know? >> this is a matter of life and death. i can perform this miracle. >> when you do chris's movies, things that when you read a script you think would be visual

effects, you know you're going to be doing this stuff practically. >> they had to fill the world of quantum physics. it was one big science project. i was very jealous. >> we did a lot of experimentation and came up with very interesting analog methods of how to approach this, all of which was leading to the trinity test, which had to feel nightmarish and terrifying in a way that computer graphics can't do. >> what we were able to get into the finished film, to me, is extraordinarily beautiful, but also very frightening. >> working with this whole team was such a great camaraderie and with the commonality of we are going to get this on camera. i love chris's dedication to that. >> it really speaks to chris and the way he directs. all of the energy goes around the camera. like, we're all here to do the same thing.

>> chris makes films for theaters, for movie going audiences. >> you want to see that as it's designed to be seen. >> it makes you gasp. you're right in their experience. >> this is, i think, a definitive moment in the history of modern film making. do yourself a favor and go see this on as big a screen as you can. >> the sound design and the scorehe emotionality of it, this is an unforgettable experience in the theater. >> you gave men the power to destroy themselves. >> the story is monumental and epic and extraordinary. it really has to be seen on a big screen to be believed. ♪♪

>> you know, we've been in an age of streaming since covid. this is like being thrown right back into the water. it's just an extraordinary experience. seeing it in imax, i don't usually see things in imax. the experience takes you in. there's one moment that i fixated on where you have a pilot who's flying and he said he looked up and there was a german shooting b-2 rockets and you see the rockets going overhead and you feel it from the back of the theater moving

forward and you feel it behind you before you see it up on the screen. if you have the opportunity to watch this in an imax theater, i've been a massive fan of movies in movie theaters my entire life. i can tell you this is an experience unlike any other that you have seen so far. i think it's going to be revolutionary in the of filmmaking, especially in theaters. i had a chance to sit down with director christopher nolan and the stars of the movie, cillian murphy, robert downey jr., emily blunt. a new special is going to be monday at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. next, we're going to be joined by the stars of the new musical "rock and roll man."

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♪ ♪ that was a look at the new musical "rock & roll man," a profile of alan freed, the man who popularized the phrase "rock 'n' roll." and now let's bring in two stars of the tony nominated show, constantine maroulis and emery award winner joe pantoliano. joe, i have to start with you. we had this huge "oppenheimier" deal and christopher nolan. then they break to you.

and i go, wait a second! >> i came here to tell you that you have to go watch the new christopher nolan movie. >> i would just say, i remember leaving the theaters going man, i don't know who cooked that up, but that dude is special. i mean, how crazy is that? christopher nolan's career. >> amazing. and we're playing just down the block from the theater. you come see us first and then go see the movie. >> it's very good tie-in. he's keeping it short. so constantine, you play this guy, it's an absolutely legendary figure in rock 'n' roll. but alan was playing r&b music in cleveland, in new york, and he called it rock 'n' roll. and man, it changed so much in the history of pop culture, didn't it? >> absolutely.

a true disrupter. someone that was just a journeyman deejay in cleveland until really leo mince and he connected at the record rendezvous, sort of the founding place of rock 'n' roll where kids were just hanging out after school, black kids, white kids, listening to records. it's unbelievable to think that not even a lifetime ago that was something that, you know, they were not allowed to do. we had segregation in this country, and he wanted to push through that. believed in the artistry and music, and was, like i said, a crusader and disrupter and knew what was at stake and pushed through that and played against the government's will, and everyone came after him for it, for sure. >> you know, james brown was like a father to me. you talked about alan freed on and on.

alan freed was to them like a freedom fighter, because he kind of brought them out of a segregated -- i mean, they used to tell me stories, i met james brown, i was a teenager. they told me of stories they played in venues where they couldn't get dressed in the dressing rooms because of segregation, they had to get dressed in the bus. alan froed change that. >> absolutely. sort of the villain in our show, the antagonist is j. edgar hoover. there were riots in boston. he basically promoted desegregated shows during segregation, and just said, i'm doing this. >> hoover came after him with a scandal. >> joe, i wanted to ask you about the role of hoover in this story. how did hoover factor into this crazy drama?

>> you know, the hip-hop, we know hoover's history and who he was. he was going after people that, you know, that he was closeted about it. the idea that they, in that time, the religious sect, everybody was demonizing rock 'n' roll. and alan freed, who was jewish, they created this -- these lies about him and destroyed him. they virtually destroyed him. he was dead by the time he was 42. the interesting thing, this story is a fever dream. alan is dying. this is moments before alan dies, and in his dream, he has this trial, the trial of -- that hoover represents. he's the prosecutor, and the attorney representing alan freed is little richard. so you know, the music is -- all of the music, all of the

dancing, it's magnificent way to tell a story. because it jumps ten years of his life. >> yeah. you know, we sort of take you back through that incredible time, the early part of his career. we see the climax, we see the fall. yes, of this flawed man. but in the end, his children, his several wives, by 43 he was gone. they were all there for him. they would celebrate him, and we have gotten to know the surviving family. his son, lance, has been a great part of this. again, we're telling a two-hour musical. we don't get to tell every detail of the story. it's very complex. but we are having a great time. we have something very special here. we feel it's an important story. the music is incredible from that era. the '50s music elicits this vibe, this joyous time in our lives. >> and the artists that are representing these famous people, bo diddley, you know,

eric b. turner. >> little richard, chuck barry, there's the great jerry lee, and they all play different parts. it's a massive broadway show in an off broadway space. it's where i started "rock of ages" before we transferred to broadway. each night, we're learning new things. and joey pants, just such a legend. i wish you could hear the stories in the dressing room. that's the best part of the whole thing. joe, you play with a bunch of musicians, i know. we know so many friends in common. >> well, that's fantastic. i would love to talk to you about that sometime soon. we've got to go see this thing. >> absolutely. let's do it together. >> we'll find a place.

it's a little crammed -- >> it's like the scene in the boat when they all come pouring out, that's our dressing room. >> here's the deal, rev, we'll go. joey pants will tell his story and you'll tell those james brown stories that you never tell on tv that i say you should write a book about. the new musical "rock & roll man" is now playing at the new world stages in new york city. constantine, thank you so much. joe, thank you, as well. can't wait to see this. rev, final thought? >> i think that it's great to end on alan fred. as we talk a lot about where the country is divided, every once in a while we need somebody in culture that brings us together. in his own way, flaws and all, alan freed did that. >> joe, great minds think alike. during the break, i was talking to the rev about how he needs to

write a book with his james brown stories. >> he's going to have to do it. they're just unbelievable stories. rev, you know what? call it fiction. change the names to protect the not so innocent. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. ♪ ♪ hello. thank you so much for joining us. hope you had a wonderful weekend. it's 10:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera reporting from new york. we have multiple breaking news stories this morning. as joe biden begins a big week overseas, he's there in the united kingdom as we speak meeting with one of america's oldest allies and wrapping up a meeting there with the king himself. he departs this hour for lithuania in a high-stakes nato summit, followed by a trip to finland, the newest member of that alliance. i'll speak with the