chaos -- >> does that mean -- >> donald trump better show up on that stage. if he doesn't, he's telling everybody he's afraid to defend his record and afraid to face the men and women on that stage. i don't want a coward being nominated against joe biden. >> a few of donald trump's challengers in in the 2024 presidential race with direct criticism of the former president. >> tough talk. >> yeah. a little bit. it comes as the department of justice will no longer defend him in a lawsuit. why the doj is backing off its previous decision. plus james comer doubles down on his -- >> wait a second. he's doubling down on his defense of a guy who illegally is an agent of the communist chinese government and illegally is funneling iranian oil to chinese communists and who is an

illegal arms dealer and lied to authorities about all of those things and now is actually on the run after being indicted? that's who james comer and the republican party is defending? >> that is. this so-called whistle-blower is now facing charges on all of that. >> that's interesting. >> we'll have more on that. >> interesting tact for any party. >> republican senator tommy tubberville of alabama is backing up on comments about white nationalists serving in the military -- >> wait. i'm confused here. you have the republicans in the house who are supporting a guy who like funnels illegally iranian oil to the communist chinese and is an illegal arms trafficker and illegal agent for the communist chinese and then

on the senate side, you have a 57, 58-year-old guy from alabama who refuses to call white nationalists racists? is this -- i guess -- i don't know, is this their 2024 strategy? >> and senator tuberville had been to be dragged kicking and screaming to that position. he said i define white nationalist one way you define it another way, finally yesterday under pressure, if you define them the way you're defining them they're racist. that's only one part of his day. the other part is threatening military readiness by holding up the appointments in the marine corps and beyond. he's on a roll. >> and doing that he's also preventing women from really wanting to join the military if they want to get health care while they're in there. it goes on and on and on with

that man. along with joe, willie and me, we have mike barnicle, susan page, and sam stein. >> so mike barnicle, let me just -- in the words of my grandma clark, let me just tear the rag off the churn and tell you, i always find all-star games to be horrifically boring but i sit and smile with everybody around the tv set, acting like i love this midsummer treat and really when they're sitting crossed leg in right field and sometimes lying back in the grass and talking to the announcers it's all too casual for my liking. i want pete rose, i think rose started a fight in the 1970s in an all-star game, going in spikes high into second base and starting a brawl. instead of these guys just kind

of -- you know, just kind of jogging around, taking it all in. am i wrong, mike? >> no, you're not wrong. neither was grammy clark. grammy clark was right, too, joe. and pete rose crashed into the plate, not second base and ended that catcher's career, basically, at that all-star's game. >> did he? that's not good. >> the all-star game last night was a terrible bore you're right. i fell asleep at the fifth, sixth innings. i was appalled by the uniforms they wore. the national league looked like they were working at a jiffy lube. just horrible. >> mike? >> yes. i'm angry! >> a jiffy lube. >> the thing is, willie, these are such incredible athletes, and they're really entertaining guys, you just look, the first

two flyouts steep to right and then deep to left. they're great athletes. i don't know they -- they need to do something to put a little bit of edge, competition in this game. i don't know what it is, though. >> this is always the problem with all-star games. you anticipate and then you can say it's certainly about the pro bowl they had to change format because that game was so bad, nba all-star game becomes a pick up game where nobody plays defense. i didn't mind mookie betts and freddy freeman talking to each other, they were great. >> they were great. >> they were great, but, yeah, if i'm honest i turned it off in the fourth inning. >> what about when they had the starting pitcher miced up? >> leave him alone. >> i was annoyed but mika will

tell you, i can do two, three, four, five things at a time. at a multitasker but when he's sitting there trying to figure out how to get batters out and sitting there talking doing color commentary on his next pitch, i started sweating for him. i will say, at that point it was like seeing the end of oppenheimer. i had no idea what was going to happen. >> yeah, no, i agree that's nerve-racking to say the least. i become a pool of sweat when someone is talking to me in an out, so i could not throw a baseball with that distraction. i will join the chorus, the game is a bore. i like the home run derby, feel like they spaced that up. i believe in japan, they have the contests during their version of the all-star game, who can lay down the best bunt and stuff like that. maybe that's where we should go, individual skill sets.

see who can throw the ball the furthest, hit the cut off man the most times, or something like that. but this nine-inning game is not watchable. >> i'm not sure the bunt contest is the solution. >> no, you have to watch it. it's so good. >> put an end to this. >> i was going to say, susan page, in the era of home runs i'm not sure the kids would watch, hey, johnny let's go in front of the tv at 9:30 p.m. at night and see how well they can bunt down the third baseline. >> it's so good. you guys are so so wrong. unbelievable. worst call ever. >> i'm putting an end to this. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. you guys went way too long -- >> that wasn't the top story? >> no. it was way too much. it wasn't good. except for mike barnicle. following major developments out of the nato summit in lithuania.

the alliance said it will invite ukraine to join but only when allies agree and conditions are met. these are live pictures of president zelenskyy addressing world leaders right now. the group did not give a time line or details on what those conditions would be. calling a pathway to membership for ukraine premature while it is at war with russia. as "the new york times" points out, it appears the president and like-minded allies have prevailed over poland and baltic nations that wanted a formal invitation for ukraine to join as soon as the war ends. >> we are in the middle of a hot war and a lot of people in the pentagon, in foreign policy community, inside the outside administration that have been saying for six months that, you

know, at some point they're going to need to figure out how to bring this war to an end because it was looking like it would end up in a stalemate and a lot of people in the administration were predicting what's happening with the spring offensive. so it shouldn't be a surprise that they're not going to wave this red flag in front of us russia at this point as they're trying to end the war. and also, there are, if you talked to leaders in the eu, they say yes, we want ukraine in, but they have to meet certain standards that we're not going to wave for anybody. i know it's frustrating for zelenskyy and those of us who support what ukraine is doing. but, you know, this is not going to be rushed, is it? >> no. in fact, if ukraine were part of nato now, would we not then have an obligation to be battling russia and, as president biden has said, wouldn't that be world

war iii? they did make some steps at the summit yesterday in telling ukraine when the war is over they can kind of jump the process, avoid the initial process for getting into nato, that was something. i think no surprise to ukraine, it's been the consistent position of the united states. the united states continues to say privately to ukraine there will have to be a diplomatic solution to the war, a diplomatic resolution, probably not a military one. and that's a hard -- that's a hard message in some ways for ukraine but probably the realistic one as we look ahead to what's going to happen with this war. >> let's go to the summit, nbc news white house correspondent, monica alba is there. we know president biden will mead with president zelenskyy in a bilateral meeting in a couple of hours from now. and the subject of the conversation will be perhaps president zelenskyy's

frustration that ukraine has not been admitted into nato. president biden, jake sullivan who we'll talk to later, the national security adviser, who say that day is coming but frankly the member states of nato don't want to be dragged into this war with russia. >> exactly. and that day isn't coming soon enough for president zelenskyy. i think you can expect him to continue to make his case for why ukraine should be fast tracked as a member nation for nato even though the u.s. and other countries have said plainly the time is not right because conditions haven't been met yet. from a security reform perspective and a democratic reform perspective. you saw yesterday before he got here president zelenskyy called this unprecedented. he said this kind of uncertainty says something about the weakness of this position. and ultimately the u.s. officials and the white house this morning are responding by

saying we agree this is unprecedented with how much support we're stepping up and giving to ukraine. yesterday the focus was on what ukraine was feeling. today will be the all about what they are going to get in the long term when it comes to security. and you're already seeing some of the nato countries pledging to train ukrainian pilots on the f-16 fighter jets. something we had talked about over and over again in recent months in terms of the u.s. delivering those after a lot of deliberation. and then i think you also expect to see president biden today continue to talk about the weaponry. the controversial cluster munitions that the u.s. is going to provide to ukraine and then the u.s. is going to say to ukraine individual countries are going to be able to make bilateral security agreements with them, ukraine will be raised to a new status at nato which means they can call a meeting with all of the member

countries, the newest being sweden and finland, which we expect to happen imminently which is a huge headline out of the summit as well. so continue to expect president biden to tout this unity, show of support, despite president zelenskyy saying thanks for all of that but we would like to see even more. >> we will see those two together in just a couple of hours from now. monica, thanks so much. mike, president biden will meet with president zelenskyy a short time from now. saying we have been with you from the beginning of the war, we'll be with you for as long as it takes to win this war, end this war, but not enough in this moment anyway for president zelenskyy, who says we want to be in nato. what do you expect president biden to say to him privately today? >> i think that the president of the united states is certainly aware that every single day zelenskyy puts his life on the line that he has been a noble and honorable and heroic leader of ukraine, given the country's

moral strength, physical strength and so outgoing he has managed to assemble a group of allies keeping the country alive. the president of the united states knows all of this. the president of the united states also knows that without the united states leadership, that strip of film we just showed with all the nato leaders on the stage grouped together, and they are together, that was stunning to vladimir putin 18 months ago. he never expected something like that to happen. and it happened because of joseph r. biden, that's the only reason it happened. bringing nato together in support of ukraine in addition to all of the incredible technical support, armorments, and intelligence support as well, that the united states has provided ukraine. so i think there's a balance in the conversation. and i think president zelenskyy clearly knows he has to show deep gratitude to the united states. this is not like applying to get

into augusta national. you have to wait your turn here. and they're involved in an active hot war each and every day. >> mike, i completely agree with your comments and your attitude here. >> you know, i have to say, it's always rich when this leader we've supported, zelenskyy, who i said on the show many times is a hero and he's acted in heroic ways from the beginning, a great example, compared him to church him, said at times he and his family were in greater danger than churchill and his family were. but when he starts attacking allies and when he starts talking about, quote, weakness, i must say it's a little rich and perhaps read a little bit of history from winston churchill and the way he worked fdr.

we've given ukraine $40 billion, twice as much as i believe europe combined. we've given them extraordinary amounts of munitions, we've given them extraordinary amounts of anti-aircraft weapons, tanks, jets, we're supporting it all and we do it gladly because we're not just doing it for the ukrainians we're doing it to defend freedom in europe and push back against an illegal and immoral invasion. we get all of that. but sam stein -- and i suppose perhaps we all would be saying what president zelenskyy is saying if we were in his position. but i will say, from joe biden's point of view and the point of view of many americans, we have a president and a congress that have been -- that have been walking on a razor's edge for a year and a half between balancing freedom and possibly

starting world war iii with a country that has more nuclear weapons than any other country on the planet. sometimes we can't just put our heads down and charge ahead like a bull in china shop. >> right. and this is what we asked white house spokesperson,emily simons this morning. is there any frustration over that zelenskyy comment yesterday which to your point seemed to have an absence of gratitude is the right word for what has been delivered so far to the country and diplomatically she side stepped the question saying everyone is on the same page and they have the same agreement where we should end up, it's just a different in timing and process. what we should consider here, hanging over the discussion of nato membership is that any

conclusion to this war will involve negotiation around ukraine nato membership. russia will not sign off if there's not an agreement that nato doesn't let ukraine in. so i think zelenskyy is saying we want to get in under the wire. and nato is looking at it thinking down the road we may need to play the card. i think that's the factor here as people gather in lithuania. >> what makes nato nato is that all of the countries in it agree and meet the same requirements. that's number one. for a country not a part of nato, they are doing well. they are getting the support of nato, unlike anyone has seen in the world. >> this is unprecedented. >> i think there's agreement on that.

at the same time, zelenskyy is going to fight for what he can get for his country and people. and he's also representing his people. and they want to see him fight for everything. >> again, if you're in had his position -- >> i do. >> -- and understand him pushing as far as he can push it, be careful about attacking a country that's given you $40 billion and an alliance that has kept the country afloat and kept him alive -- and i will say, right now it may not be nato membership but if the united states comes to you and starts to talk about the israel model it's not a bad model to follow. nobody is going to invade israel. no foreign country is going to invade israel without understanding they have to go through the united states. and that's been the case since 1948. so this is going to be messy, not perfect. as i said yesterday, if we want

to get to a resolution where you have a peace agreement. >> um-hum. >> and you stop future invasions of that area by russia and we actually, as a world community, actually stand by our word and protecting ukrainian sovereignty, unlike 2014, then that's going to mean we're going to bring in a lot of people around that peace table, including the chinese, to get a deal that at the end of the day protects ukraine not only for next year but for the next generation. and that's -- again, it's not going to be perfect. that's why few negotiations are. >> we have a lot more coming up on this. but turning to politics here at home. republican oversight committee chair james comer said he wants to call to gal louf, the so called whistle-blower who republicans claim expose allege

corruption by joe biden and his son hunter. that's despite the department of justice indicting louft for acting as an unregistered agent of china. he is currently on the run and considered a fugitive by the doj. he was arrested in february before skipping bail. congressman comer is questioning the timing of unsealing the indictment. >> wasn't the doj challenged to actually show the charges? >> yeah. >> a couple days ago, they said, why don't they show the charges. they show the charges and -- it's always a conspiracy theory. so you have james comer standing on the side, i suppose, of people who were what maybe spies for china? people that are engaging in illegal arms trafficking? people who are illegally funneling iranian oil to the

communist chinese? >> here's what comer told reporters yesterday followed by his appearance on fox news. >> he's a credible witness because he worked for cbsc just like hunter biden. i'm not saying innocent or guilty. i'm saying he worked for the same company that hunter biden worked for. and i want to know what the company did and -- if he has any knowledge of what role the bidens played. >> they were quick making the indictment unsealed. but at the end of the day you look at what they indicted him, they indicted him for being an unregistered foreign agent that's what hunter biden was doing, only hunter biden received hundreds of thousands dollars more than gal luft. i'm not saying gal luft is innocent but at the end of the

day, the thing the justice department indicted him on is one of the things that hunter biden should have been indicted on five years ago. the fact that the justice department moved so quickly on gal luft but didn't do anything with hunter biden is concerning. >> they were challenged to release the information of the indictment several days ago, if i'm not mistaken by the fugitive himself. the fugitive said, go ahead, go ahead and i dare you to. and they did and it was illegal arms trafficking which i guess comer is okay with. being an illegal agent for the communist chinese, which i guess comer is okay with. illegally funneling iranian oil to the communist chinese which i i guess comer is okay with. lying to the authorities about

all of these things which i guess comer is okay with. let's bring in jonathan last, jonathan, my god, talk about looking for love in all the wrong places. this comer guy. it's horrific. tell us who this gal luft is. this -- as you say this luft, this whistle-blower, this grifter, this spy, this illegal oil trafficker to the communist chinese party, who is he is? >> what you have to understand is that projection is the sincerist form of trump-ism. so gal luft is this guy who's codirector of a think tank in d.c. and he, like arthur brooks at a.i., he seems to spend his time running around, especially in china, doing work for the chinese government. so he -- his story -- this is

amazing, is that he is doing this perfectly legal stuff all above board for the chinese government's energy company and that his bosses at cefc tell him this hunter biden thing we're doing over here is supershady and because he's a patriot he decides he's going to the justice department, fbi, and spills the beans on the bad stuff that hunter biden is doing. so he has this meeting in brussels, when joe biden is not president correct me if i'm wrong, and he tells them all the things he has learned about the terrible, illegal things that hunter biden is doing. and then, because, i guess, donald trump's justice department is super apolitical, they decide not to do anything with it. and gal luft said they went and buried all the evidence that he

gave them. and he, in fact, told them, also, that the biden crime family had a mole inside the fbi, code named one-eye. this is all real. >> oh my god. >> it's crazy. >> so jonathan, take us back to 2019 is when gal luft goes and talks with the justice department. and donald trump's justice department, bill barr -- >> yes. >> -- they decide to do nothing with it, no connection between hunter biden, the bidens, anybody else? if. >> you have to ask yourself how far -- how deep does this conspiracy go, right? yes. so what he alleges that they went and they buried all of this. and -- but, you know, he has the goods and we all have to take his word for it as he's putting up videos from an undisclosed location because, again, he is a fugitive on the run. >> so jonathan, what does that mean now for the republicans

like james comer who are still doubling down on this guy, holding him up as the key to the entire investigation? are they going to stick by the guy? they have to find him first? but once they find him are they going to stick by him as the key to the alleged biden crime family? >> as a political matter, i don't think they can let go of it. they have to keep doubling down and doubling down. but the big missing piece on all of this, i'm happy to stipulate that hunter biden is a bad guy, may have committed crimes, and seems from the outside there's been a rigorous investigation of him. there is no evidence that joe biden is involved in any of this, right. show me one piece of evidence that the president is somehow involved. because that would be bad, right. but there doesn't seem to be any. i think the republicans have to keep doubling down and doubling down. because it's one more thing they can throw against the wall while

donald trump has been indicted himself a couple of times maybe another time or two before the election. this is one of the ways they keep muddying the water and pretending. i think they need hunter biden to help themselves pretend that the trump stuff isn't so bad, right? this is how they convince themselves he's just as bad as our guy. >> i'm old enough to remember when getting indicted hurt your credibility, didn't boost it. going back to fundamentals, where is luft and what are the odds that american law enforcement is going to get their hands on him? >> we don't know where he is. i have no idea myself. i mean, he seems to be presenting, in his 14 minute video he sent to the new york post if i was an innocent guy being prosecuted by the deep state i would reach out to "reuters," the ap, something like that. he sent it to "the new york

post" he said he plans to be on the run the rest of his life. so it's the long game. you can't make this stuff up. >> you can't. >> let me say, and willie i think at this point we need to let jonathan know that "the new york post" this afore mentioned newspaper is the paper of record for "morning joe." so if i were guilty, willie, of selling illegal iranian oil to the communist chinese. and if i were charged with being an illegal agent to the communist chinese government. and if i were charged illegally selling weapons and lying to authorities about it, willie, who would i go to first? >> you always go to the post. this morning they have a splash about matt harvey's new

girlfriend, i rest my case. >> i rest my guess. is that the headline? by the way, i'd send it there for the headlines. >> jonathan last, thank you. >> that said, we appreciate your time. >> and sam stein thank you as well. thanks for doing way too early this morning. >> are you really going to go to the mat over a bunting contest? do you really think a bunting contest is what american baseball needs? >> yes. >> good-bye, sam. thank you. >> good-bye. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll be joined by national security adviser jake sullivan ahead of president biden's meeting with ukrainian president zelenskyy this morning. plus a top u.s. general is warning about the far reaching impact of republican senator tommy tubberville's decision to

block military promotions over the abortion issue. also the iowa legislature passes a bill to ban most abortions after six weeks. we'll get a live report from that early voting state. >> i think iowa and ohio could be in play. i don't think i would have said that a year ago. >> and the latest on the severe flooding across the northeast and the federal government's response. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ht back. i'm your overly competitive brother. check. psych! and i'm about to steal this game from you just like i stole kelly carter in high school. you got no game dude, that's a foul! and now you're ready to settle the score. game over.

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welcome back. republican senator tommy tuberville of alabama is now backtracking on comments this week in which he said it's only some people's opinions that white nationalists are racists. it comes after an interview in may where he said he would be okay with white nationalists serving in the military. listen to that interview and then his remarks on monday. >> we are losing in the military so fast our readiness in terms of recruitment. and why? i can tell you why, because the democrats are attacking our military saying we need to get out the white extremists, the white nationalists, people that don't believe in our agenda, joe biden's agenda. they're destroying it. >> you mentioned the biden administration trying to prevent white nationalists from being in the military. do you believe they should allow

white nationalists in the military? >> they call them that. i call them americans. >> first of all, i'm totally against any type of racism. i was a football coach for 40 years, and i dealt and had opportunity to be around more minorities than anybody up here on this hill. white nationalists is just another word they want to use other than racism. >> but to be clear, you agree that white nationalists should not be serving in the u.s. military? is that what you're saying? >> if people think that a white nationalist is racist, i agree with that. >> white nationalist is someone who believes that the white race is superior to other races. >> that's some people's opinion. >> that's not opinion. >> pardon? >> what's your opinion? >> my opinion -- if someone wants to call them a white nationalist, it's an american. if that white nationalist is a racist, i'm totally against anything they want to do because i am 110% against racism.

>> after those remarks both leaders schumer and mcconnell criticized the alabama senator yesterday and soon after receiving backlash from both sides of the aisle for his comments, tuberville attempted to backtrack his remarks. >> the senator from alabama is wrong wrong wrong. the definition of white nationalism is not a matter of opinion. white nationalism, the ideology that one race is inherently superior to others. that people of color should be segregated, subject and relegated to second class is racist to the core. and if the senator to obscure white nationalism is very dangerous. i urge my republican colleges to press upon the senator from alabama, the destructive impact of his words and urge him to

apologize. >> do you have any concern that a member of your caucus, senator tuberville, has a hard time denouncing white nationalists? >> white supremacist is unacceptable in the military and our country. >> i'm totally against racism. if democrats say that a white nationalist is -- >> then i'm totally against white nationalists. but i'm not giving the definition but i'm against form of racism. always have been. i'm a football coach, dealt with more minorities than anybody in this building. made sure everybody had respect. >> he still didn't say that white nationalists are racists. >> he just made a wink. >> he said if that's somebody's definition. but this guy has lived in the

south for 50-something years, 55, 56, 57 years, he knows exactly what white nationalism is and he knows that white nationalists believe that black people and hispanic people and anybody who's not white, they are inferior because of their race. he understands that. so i'm not exactly sure why he still has not said that white nationalists are racists. but this idea that he backtracked -- no, he hasn't backtracked at all. >> there's a possibility that coach tuberville may still be under concussion protocol, who knows. but listen, joe, the problem is this guy's ignorance, senator tuberville of alabama, his ignorance is still impeding the promotions and the pay scale ups

for millions for hundreds of american military members and he does it every day, impeding progress in the united states military. impeding progress that, you know, a lot of families have problems with moving to one state or another because of the lack of health benefits for women and the fear of having to need reproductive services from doctors that won't be available to them. this guy is impeding all of that. in addition to what he's doing displaying his ignorance on a daily basis and as you pointed out, he has not changed his position. if you listen to his word, he has not changed his position. it's ignorant and definition of who senator tuberville is. >> yeah. and i would go further, unfortunately. i wish this was ignorance. that at least would explain it if he was just stupid. was just a stupid man. but he's not. he has lived in that state for a long time, he has served the

state, he has coached in the state. he knows exactly what he's saying. and he is speaking to white nationalists in that answer. sort of like stand back and stand by, where you're nonsensical but speaking to them. if democrats say that's the definition -- he knows the definition. and he will not condemn white nationalism, that's the bottom line. it's not ignorance. this was his point. the cruelty and the white nationalism was the point here. >> and he said democrats were criticizing him. republicans were criticizing him for it as well. >> but he brings it back to democrats and makes it political. no. >> the head of the republican party in the united states senate and others criticized him. and again i always like to talk about this country moving towards a more perfect union. there are a group of republicans that are taking at least their party -- their wing of the party

in reverse very quickly. it's 2023, and you have a united states senator that is refusing to call white nationalists racists. and only says if you -- that's what you say they are. >> that's what democrats say. >> that's what democrats say they are. this is again, just to remind you, how badly things have gotten in this party. it was not so long ago that an iowa congressman got kicked off of his committees by the republican party for saying things that were far less offensive than what tommy tuberville is saying every day. >> yes. let's bring in white house correspondent for politico eugene daniels, a "morning joe" senior contributor. what more are you hearing about this? tommy tuberville is in the news for white nationalisms and

keeping women in the military from receiving abortions and holding up nominations in the military as a result. >> there's a frustration in the republican party because of his failure to say anything against white nationalists in this country, in the military. because folks feel like it's distracting from what some of them agree with, he's trying to force the pentagon to get rid of this rule that they are allowing women and people who need abortions to travel and all of that. he's holding up these nominations because of it. as someone who played football until my college years. you can be a coach and still have some racism in you, i'll leave it there. he has moved the post, one from wanting a vote on this, and now he is standing firmer in the gap saying he wants the pentagon to completely retract this policy. it's unlikely that the pentagon is going to do that.

you talk to anyone within the administration, anyone in the pentagon in the department of defense, and they'll say it's unlikely that this is going to happen. so it leaves you at this stand still. and when you talk to a lot of these republicans what they say is, now the readiness, if he continues this, and you have the lack of one commandant and if that continues that effects the readiness of the military, which is what he said he's trying to stop. senator schumer could kind of get around tuberville, it would take a long time because each nomination would take days. and it would -- could further politicize the military and these nominations. i will say, folks are looking at mitch mcconnell to push him -- tuberville to do something different. mcconnell doesn't seem to agree with him holding these -- he obviously would step out and say

something against tuberville if necessary but he doesn't usually unless it's necessary, strong arm his colleagues, the folks in his conference, unless he feels like it's necessary. so it's unlikely we'll see how this actually ends any time soon. >> and senator mcconnell said he disagrees with what senator tuberville is doing, holding up the military promotions but one senator does have the power to do it in our system. susan page, part of the irony and richness is something that eugene just referred to. in the comments that we heard where tommy tuberville feels like the military is getting too woke, he believes it's hurting the military readiness while he has spent the last several weeks hurting our military readiness not getting the promotions through, now the system is so backed up it would take weeks to get these more than 100 promotions done and get people in the positions where they need to be in the military. >> this is no small matter.

i think about 250 military promotions are now blocked. this could involve new nominated members for the joint chiefs. it's affecting these military families. it makes it harder for them to get the assistance they need to move to a new assignment. so there are repercussions for his actions, which president biden yesterday called bizarre, may be in a way more serious than the repercussions from his words that so many people find offensive. >> all right. thank you susan for that. so coming up, what democratic voters are saying about president biden's age -- >> it's going -- parts of a focus group where asked specifically is he too old to be president because you hear from washington democrats real concerns. coming up a focus group that

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♪♪ live look at reagan national airport in washington d.c., it looks like the sun is going to be out today, which is nice, parts of the country especially the northeast under water with severe flooding this morning. we'll have more on that ahead. right now, we want to play for you part of focus group recently taken from political analyst mark halperin's wide world of news. he spoke with eight democratic voters about the questions surrounding president biden's age leading up to the 2024

presidential election. take a look. >> concern if he shows signs of aging between now and next november, the republicans could beat him in the presidential campaign. >> yeah. >> so everybody's concerned about that. how do you feel about president biden running for another four-year term. >> i have mixed feelings about it, i feel like he's really done a lot. my goal is that that trump is not president. >> i think he's actually done an incredible job. the age thing is not going to go away. i'll support him if he's the nominee. >> i don't have a problem with his age the good thing about him is he has age but he has lots of experience. >> i too will vote for him when he's, you know, the one that's probably going to be there, but i do have -- i just kind of worry -- i think he's very

strong, i think he's had a great political career. he's gone both sides of the aisle. he doesn't ostracize. the only thing about the age issue, it's concerning, but i mean, the other option scares me. i can deal with the age thing. >> one more question, this question of the president's mental capacity, raise your hand if you think his capacity is what or significantly lessened since he took office. raise your hand. all right, only two of you. the rest of you, just to be clear, he's exactly the same when he took office. >> for the most part. >> he's got the pressure on him now. >> you know, mike barnicle what

was unanimous here, they were going to vote for joe biden if joe biden was there. there was also respect and admiration for what he's done. some concern about age and that does track with what we hear from people in washington, d.c., but, again, though, no alternatives to joe biden. right now, they seem to be sticking with him. >> you know, that focus group tracks exactly what you hear from ordinary people when you're grocery shopping, putting gas in your car. exactly, exactly on those lines. people are concerned about his age. he's 81 years of age. he's president of the united states. maybe the most difficult job in the world. today he's overseas and he's the head of really the legitimate head of nato, having brought that group together.

he gets on a plane and flies back to washington, d.c., for another series of dreadful days that begin at 8:00 a.m. in the morning if he's lucky and ends at 9:00 p.m. at night if he's luck where. overnight intelligence reports that would scare any regular human being. all of that at 81. the plan for his campaign is to own his age, own the fact that he's 81, own the fact that, you know, he doesn't run as fast as he used to, he doesn't look as agile as he used to because of his age. he has a troubled foot. it makes it look worse than it is. at the end of the day, given his age, given his vast experience in government, given his knowledge about the president, his record that he achieved,

better than barack obama's first term, i think that's what he has to campaign on. own your age. say things like, when washington crossed the delaware i was there to help pull those boats in. that's how old i am. he needs to own his age. if he does it properly from his birth in scranton, pennsylvania, telling his life story in a shorter version, a briefer version, he could then say, i am you. i am the american citizen that you are. i have owned homes that i couldn't afford. i have maybe -- i almost had are cars repossessed. i've host two children. i know the pain that you feel on a daily basis. i'm joe biden. >> exactly. i can't agree more with that focus group, a conversation we

might have had with friends across the dinner table or across the country. people who really care about him. think he's doing a great job and he's going to be 82 when he's running. it's interesting, you mentioned, he has a foot problem, he grew up with a stutter, all those things, if you're one show on fox news, he fell off a bike, whatever it is, make it a huge issue. you talk to democrats who have voted for him and look at the alternative. susan page, the alternative is the same age, maybe one or two years younger it's not like donald trump if he wins the nomination is some spring chicken. to say the least. and, you know, his presidency was full of executive time and golfing and resting and watching tv, while joe biden has been working his you-know-what off

during this presidency, so he has the track record to match his age. to brag on it. >> you know, he doesn't have any choice not to own his age, he can't rewind the clock and become a younger guy. he can do two things. he can deal with this with humor, like knowing george washington, that's very disarming, that's not getting under his skin. at nato, he's showing himself as a vigorous leader, on top of things, able to deliver and unite this alliance, come back home, able to deal with economic concerns that worry many americans. he needs to joke and he needs to do and that's the only way forward in dealing with le hit mat concerns about his age. >> mika, people inside the white house, what's their view of how

to handle this. democrats, we all know, very supportive of joe biden when talked in private moments, that press conference was a little tough, hard to watch him walking across the lawn, democrats who like joe biden and when you ask them what the alternative might be, he beat donald trump once so they think he can do it again. >> i mean, anybody you talk to in the white house and on the small campaign or at the dnc who's operating as most of the biden campaign at this point, he's not getting younger, i think a couple of years ago when they first got in and republicans were doing this, day were worried. what's happened over the last few months is that aides around him said, you know what, forget

about it, talk about how old you are. he made jokes about his age at the white house correspondents dinner. what it tells people, like susan said, it doesn't bother him, he's not trying to hide from it. what he's trying to do i'm an elder statesman. i'm wise, i have experience, those kind of things. more importantly, the most important thing he can do is saying donald trump is not only around the same age i'm the only one that has beat him. and when you have a democratic party, both the voters and the elite of the party here in washington, d.c., who are terrified of what another four years of donald trump might mean that's a powerful and has been a very powerful argue lt for him to make, why you didn't see any democrats who probably would want to run in 2024 doing anything that people gavin newsom, gretchen whitmer, people

who have a big biography that would be appetizing to voters. that hasn't happened because they're so terrified and what democrats are doing now, and what the biden campaign is doing now, is also painting ron desantis and the entire republican party, how in trump's image they are, even if it's somebody else you should be scared of trumpism. they're doing a lot of work just in case it's not trump. >> thank you both so much. it was a fascinating focus group. i agree completely with mike and the others that they own the age, ronald reagan, washington crossing the delaware and biden was there pulling in the boats, ronald reagan famous said i knew thomas jefferson. that got big laughs in the second debate. again, there was a question about his age and he said he

wasn't going to use his opponent's age and experience against him. he played to that and it's disarming, the same thing joe biden needs to do and with reagan they also managed to schedule very carefully. >> yeah, i think his staff needs to own his age. i'm going to be honest. i don't think they do a good job helping out the president. i'm just saying, if you are managing a president's schedule and you're managing a president getting on and off stage, getting on and off planes, and yes, he's 80. you need to be there for him. you need to make a pathway and you better make sure he doesn't fall on a sandbag. these are things that are going to hurt him and played on a loop. let him do his job, his speeches, let him work on policy, his connections in

congress, unlike any president we have seen since, i don't know, clinton. but make sure your secret service, the staff, you're there and telling him what's next. don't take this as oh, he can't get from one place to another. when you're busy and you're on stage. i have done speeches. i'm so nervous. i'm doing the speech. when it's done, i don't know which way to go. i'm looking for direction. so do a better job because you can't have these video images of the president tripping or the president like going to wrong way, it's not going to work in this presidency, because his age is going to be factor. it's your job to make sure he gets from one place to another. you have to handle his schedule and where he goes. it makes me mad. >> with every president, you have different strengths and

weaknesses. if somebody were younger in the white house they would manage his expectations to make sure that that he never looked too young or inexperience. biden is getting up there, he's slowing down as mike said, lot of people forget, i think he broke or fractured his foot during the transition. he hasn't really been the same. his walk looks a lot differently. again -- >> that's the easy part? >> donald trump can't criticize joe biden if he's not putting in 12-hour days, because donald trump sat with executive time and watched cable news for the great part of his presidency. there are also a couple of other presidents who told us personally, we're not going tell their names, they like to get out of the oval office at 6:00 p.m. and go upstairs and watch tv. >> or go to bed by 9:00.

>> again, this is a management issue. i got to say this, we're past 7:00, wednesday, july 12th. i want to keep this conversation going. claire mccaskill and peter baker. >> claire, if you'd like to trash the all-star game being boring -- first, i want to talk about joe biden for a second, so fascinating, yes, in politics style is substance sometimes. perception is reality sometimes. i will say, though, you look at the nonsense that right wingers are saying right now, the one thing they're not talking about is how now joe biden has managed to get sweden into nato. >> i mean, hello. >> again, this is yet -- this is

yet another extraordinary achievement. brought the allies back together after donald trump spent four xwreers trashing them privately and publicly. >> joe biden has reunited the west because of the depth of his experience on stages in other countries. listen, this is a binary choice in america. the majority of america not only supports joe biden, most importantly supports his policies. they don't want weapons of military war being taken into schools to slaughter their children. they don't want rape victims to be forced to have a baby by the government. they don't want these things. so, by the way, let's compare these go guys. one is fat and out of shape and plays golf all day from a golf

cart and the other is in pretty good physical shape. you know, there's three years difference. really? we're going to use those three years as a deciding factor as to lead the most powerful country in the world? that's dumb. >> and two indictments. >> yeah, right. right. an indicted criminal. i'm waiting for a journalist to ask some republicans, would you tell us that rupert murdoch should step down? rupert murdoch is older than joe biden, right? so is warren buffett, they're running big big multinational corporations. that are revered by businessmen and republicans. i get it. i understand why people worry about it. but i think joe biden is in a commanding position right now especially since inflation keeps

coming down, manage the interest rates going into next year. i think they're going to bring a crook. >> so peter baker, i'm not going to ask you to call rupert murdoch this morning and ask him how he's doing, but i'm going to ask you, given your knowledge, your extensive knowledge of the white house staff and the presidency, including the presidency of joseph r. biden, the incumbent, what's your take on the incumbent's staff, the white house staff around him in terms of how they're protecting him or promoting him given the talk, the continuing talk about his age and does he look too frail, stuff like that, what are they doing in your mind or what you hear from your reporting, what are they doing to promote him effectively over those obstacle. >> reporter: they do try to protect him, they do.

look at his schedule for interest, public events are scheduled between 12:00 and 4:00 in the afternoon, from a best part of the day for him point of view, he does a hot viewer public events in the evening like president obama. they try to give him his weekends if they can. doesn't mean he doesn't have meetings on the weekend. but for the most part they try to protect his weekends as best they can. other things they can do. just last night, he skipped the nato leaders dinner, why did he skip it? the officials tell us, four busy times. he's skipped a dinner with international counterparts, why

are they scheduling him to go to these difference in the first time if it's pushing his boundaries. anyone would be exhausted on some of these trips. to mika's point, you have to be cognizant and make the best accommodations for him. he may resist that. they'd like to do more and he would say, no, i can do it. skipping the dinner after you agreed to go to it, sends a signal. joe, the accomplishments of the summit showing he's the leader, the undisputed heard on the world stage right now, wisdom comes with age, the last few days demonstrate that. that focus group is a big warning sign for them. >> the white house says president biden skipped that dinner last night because of four full days of official meetings. we'll go to nato summit.

but first, president biden's nominee for the joint chiefs of staff criticized republican senator tommy tuberville of alabama for his blockade of military promotions yesterday during a committee hearing. vowing to block them until the defense department that scrap is its policy for service members who have to travel out of state for abortion services. tuberville's protests keeping hundreds of military personnel from their new positions including the leader of the united states marine corps. now without a permanent chief for the first time in more than 150 years. here's what general brown said yesterday. >> several factors that i think as we're going through this and how we're working to mitigate the challenges the holes. for our young service members to

know who's in the position of leadership that's qualified, has the experience to be there, we have strong deputies at the same time they don't have the same level of experience going forward. my concern there is future retention. because we have more junior officers who will look up and say, if that's the challenge i'll have to deal with in the future, we'll lose talent because of those challenges. dm we'll lose talent. joining us a member of the house intelligence committee and former cia officer. congresswoman, thanks for being with us this morning. what's your assessment of the damage done already by this one-man blockade in. >> i represent quantico and tens of thousands of virginia's 7th

district. what this one senator is doing and has been able to do is just absolutely unthinkable and irresponsible. we heard general brown, we have to mitigate the challenges. the fact that we have military leaders mitigating the challenges posed by one single senator, when we have challenges they should be focused on mitigaing in form of our adversaries throughout the world, they should planning, ensuring our military readiness, it's unbelievable to me. it's irresponsible. it's outrageous and it needs to stop. it's dangerous the our nation. to our readiness. >> congresswoman, good morning. i'd like to talk to you about the house democrats have organized around trying to talk to the senators and explain that this whole situation has become

abusive. has there been any strategies about how you can put pressure on the democrats in the senate to stop allowing one senator to harm our military, to harm the department of justice, to harm our judiciary, it's gotten so abusive that many states like mine, we have no judges getting appointed, no u.s. attorneys because of one guy who decides he's going to run out the clock and not let this administration appoint members of the judiciary. what are you doing to get rid -- >> as you correctly note, this is a challenge, we have our own problems and challenges in the house of representatives. in the united states senate there needs to be action taken, for months just accepted that this one-man show could impact our military readiness can keep

promotions from happening, can ensure that we don't have the chosen leaders in positions across the country and across the world leading our armed services is just not acceptable. the fact that this is how the senate is functioning or not functioning at the moment needs to change. and certainly there are certainly quite a bit of house members who would like to see, you know if takes every single person on the floor for a vote, that would be painful for my counterparts in the senate, but these individuals need to be put in these positions and frankly what senator tuberville is doing is damaging and actions need to be taken to show that's not an appropriate use of senate time. >> congresswoman, what do you tell a constituent of yours who lives in northern virginia, member of military family, we all know that military service is difficult for the person

serving in military, particularly difficult for the families, with the moves every one or two years, whatever, a family comes to you, look it, we're on the verge of being transferred to a base in florida, a six-week termination of, you know, services for women, for reproduction services, what do you tell that particular family? >> women, you know, what's notable and my background is in national security, i was a cia officer and working closer with military members, what's most extraordinary of the men and women our our military servic is their willingness to accept assignments. sometimes, far from family, within the united states. but the military recognizes the

health care needs of family members and wants to be able to provide for family unit, the real challenge and what i'm hearing from constituents, a true circumstance, looking to be promoted, top position in another state, their family, including kids enrolling in new high schools, everyone is waiting to move states away as the parent is about to undertake command of a pretty noteworthy location, now the family is assuming they may stay in the d.c. area for a bit longer and wait in a holding pattern because the promotion, this transfer is on hold indefinitely, that's the impact. the readiness issue. but the families day in and day out sacrifice for their military service members loved ones through moving, through changing

schools, young kids, all of that is getting disrupted, in addition to the disservice in this case young marines are seeing at the top of the marine corps, the commandant position is unfilled because of a one-man show in the senate. our military members deserve more. >> absolutely. >> as you said the marine corps don't have a commandant for the first time in 150 years and you have men and women, you've got spouses and children, whose lives are being held up because you have one republican senator and a lot of other republicans who are letting him do this. who's playing culture warrior with the readiness of the united states military and what's so

prospsrtous, it's one person. it's important democrats need to force this issue especially on the commandant. stay there all night for five nights they need to get it done. still ahead, what ron desantis is saying about the possibility of being donald trump's running mate and how trump and his campaign are responding also ahead, iowa is the latest state to enact the abortion ban. jake sullivan is standing by in lithuania ahead of president biden's meeting with ukrainian president zelenskyy this morning. he joins the conversation right here on "morning joe." next, we're back in two minutes. .

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welcome president of ukraine, volodymyr zelenskyy. >> nato's secretary stoltenberg, the first of the new ukraine defense council during a summit in lithuania. >> after that statement, very moving statement, standing ovation, he krit sieszed the format of the all-star game. >> no, he didn't. >> there should be bunting contest. >> no, he didn't. one day nato rejected a plea from ukrainian president zelenskyy to immediately admit his country into the alliance, pushing that invitation down the road. joining us right now from the nato summit in lithuania, white house national security adviser, jake sullivan. >> why don't we start with

history that was made during this summit, the agreement by all parties that sweden, now, becomes a member of nato. suddenly the baltic sea is looking like the nato lake as was said. >> first of all, thanks for having me and greetings from lithuania, where this nato summit is unfolding. turkey agreed to send the ramification protocols for sweden to their parliament, meaning that sweden will become the 32nd member of nato and the significance of this, since last year, having finland and sweden, two historically nonaligned countries decide after decades they're going to join the nato alliance, it will make it larger than ever before, more energized than ever before and more united

than ever before. the baltic sea, we have finland in the alliance with a 800-mile boarder with russia that shows that what russia has done in ukraine and the response to the west to it has only complicated life for russia and thet will pay. >> so, jake, obviously there's the big issue of zelenskyy being concerned about the way ukraine is being framed in terms of its readiness for moim to nato right now. and president biden pushing it down the road. but the nato treaty has three requirements for membership. are they not meeting those requirements? >> well, every ally has to meet a set of standards with respect to democratic reforms that's

been true since the washington treaty came into existence 74 years ago, what president biden has said and other nato members have said, all 31 members signed on to in the commonique admitting ukraine today would mean that nato would be at war with russia. president biden said ukraine has made substantial steps on reforms and that further progress will put ukraine in a position where the alliance can invite it into membership. the alliance was clear yesterday, ukraine's future is in nato and we'll continue to work with ukraine on the path towards membership and today president zelenskyy made the point when he was standing with the u.n. secretary general he didn't get all that he wanted he

got a substantial package from nato. >> jake, good morning. fair to say that president zelenskyy was furious yesterday in a very public way calling nato weak, saying the failure to admit ukraine to nato invite further terror as he put it from russia. for a nation united states that's given some $40 billion and pledged new arms as you say and will be there until the end with ukraine, what do you expect the private conversation today between president biden and president zelenskyy to be like, what's the message, what's the response to that anger we saw from president zelenskyy yesterday? >> well, as you mentioned, president biden and president zelenskyy will meet, in a couple of hours in the building behind me, president biden will be straightforward, he'll say to

president zelenskyy, this is the my rational for the decision and this is support that the united states will provide you. just before they go into that meeting, president biden, the leaders of the g7 and president zelenskyy will all stand together before the cameras and announce a declaration of long-term security commitments where the united states based on a similar kind of approach we used with israel is going to make a firm commitment to ukraine that not just in this current conflict by over the long term we'll provide ukraine with the means it needs to defend itself and to deter future aggression. president biden will lay that out for president zelenskyy, he knows that president zelenskyy is leading a nation that's at war, under brutal assault day in and day out. he knows that president zelenskyy has strong views and isn't afraid to express those views, he president biden also is very straight forward and

candid with president zelenskyy. >> all right, white house national security adviser jake sullivan, thank you. as an american congratulations for getting another tough nato ally in this historic alliance. >> incredible work. >> peter baker, love to get your thoughts on what you just heard from the national security adviser. >> yeah, look, they're obviously trying to make the best they can of the rift with president zelenskyy, today indicated he was going in the same direction after yesterday's tough words, as we just talked about, today he's talking about how much he's grateful for the alliance and how close they have been, they're trying to find a way to move past the disagreement over membership. i mean, look, it's interesting, you heard from jake sullivan just there of course, is you know, trying to demonstrate that the alliance is still together,

even though there are some real frictions there, friction over the future of ukraine and the alliance. friction over the president's decision the other day to approve cluster munitions for this war, something you're hearing a real condemnation about on the part of some allies. they're managing to make the best of this. make a show of unity and force. send a message to moscow that the alliance won't be driven apart. what putin wanted to do a year and a half ago to invade ukraine, was to drive a wedge in nato instead he has a more unified nato. >> look at the support that zelenskyy is getting from the nato allies. >> i've got to say as we're looking at these pictures,

peter, one leader that's been absolutely fascinating, there's erdogan a man who followed his heart, let sweden into nato. >> lot of fighter jets. >> at the front, peter baker, you have the prime minister of italy who's suspected to be another pro-russian prop, a populist, a neo-fascist, i must say her position on ukraine and her position on even a lot of eu issues, very surprising, very mainstream. >> i think she surprised a lot of people. a lot of doubts when she took

office. one of the big powers seemed to be pulling away from the pro-russia solidarity, that's not been the case, of course we saw the passing most recently her partner who was pro-putin, one of putin's best friend in the west, his departure removes one of putin's best allies he could have had inside of nato. >> we're looking at the pictures of zelenskyy. peter baker, thank you for being with us. claire mccaskill, we're looking at these pictures of zelenskyy surrounded by european leaders and when historians write the history of this chapter. of european history of russian history and they talk about the grand failure, the epic

strategic failure the historical failure of vladimir putin to achieve the aims he was hoping to achieve while invading ukraine this is a picture they're going to show to prove just how historically wrong he was. >> yeah, you know, it's interesting to me because this relates back to our story about tommy tuberville in that exposed how weak his military was. they were not ready. they were not trained. they were not capable. it's weakened him forever on the world stage. it's an important moment in history. you know, what i'd like to point out, everyone's giving a lot of time and ink to the fact that zelenskyy went off yesterday and was angry and passionate about the failure of nato to let him in during the middle of a war,

everybody has to remember who he's speaking to first, every strong leader always speaks to his people first, not to the people in the room, not to the people that lead the other nations that are in fact saving his country in many ways but he was speaking to the ukrainian people, he was expressing to them how hard he's trying and how badly he wants to be a part of the west where democracy and human rights are respected. i understand why he went off yesterday. i predict he'll have a very good meeting with joe biden today. i think this will be a different tone. i understand he went off, anybody who has run for office and needs people should understand that fundamentally. >> i totally agree. totally agree. all right, coming up, the director of the atf is going to join us, we'll talk about all of

this with him, about the impact the bipartisan safer communities act, a gun law president biden signed just over a year ago. plus, we're not even halfway through july and it's already on track to be the hottest month in u.s. history, we'll get an update on the extreme summer temperatures for millions of americans. "morning joe" is coming right back. oming right back trying vapes to quit smoking might feel like progress, but with 3x more nicotine than a pack of cigarettes - vapes increase cravings - trapping you in an endless craving loop. nicorette reduces cravings until they're gone for good.

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a live picture of new york city. a good-looking wednesday morning. 7:39 in the morning. floodwaters in vermont beginning to recede a bit after residents saw two months of rain in just two days there. the disaster trapped people in their homes, closed roadways. as of yesterday morning, more

than 100 people have been rescued statewide. those efforts will last until the end of the week as they try to get to everyone quickly. the flash flooding began on monday, look at these pictures from montpelier. the governor says thousands of people have lost homes and businesses and they're worried about a dam near the state capital as well. meanwhile the southwest is bracing for record-break temperatures. over the weekend the nalgs weather service issued a warning that covers a good portion of southwestern arizona. the excessive heat warning came a week after record global temperatures. all right, a major gun rights organization is taking the atf to court. over its regulation of gun sales, the gun owners of america is suing over federal firearms

licenses inspection guidelines. the biden administration issued a zero tolerance policy for stores that violate regulations. after one infraction the atf can revoke a gun store's lie since, failing to do a background check or selling a gun to someone not legally allowed to own one. we'll talk about the bipartisan safer communities act in just a moment. but about this lawsuit, where does it stand right now? >> well, so, first of all, it's pending litigation, so i'm limited in what i can say, it just got filed in the last day or so, but i can talk about the role of atf in regulating firearm dealers, so we're

entrusted by congress with making sure that all of the many gun dealers across the country, the licensees are following the rule. team of inspectors go out and periodically conduct inspections of these firearm dealers. a majority are following the rules. some can't and unintentionally not following the rules, we try to help those get in compliance and a smaller group who are willfully violating the law. when individuals are running stores or gun stores are willfully violating the law and endangering public safety that atf has the authority and the responsibility to intervene and hold them accountable which could revocation and other things as well. we're out there enforcing laws that congresses ha asked us to enforce. >> so, i want to ask about gun

legislation, the bipartisan gun law that was signed a year ago amid mass shootings that happen on daily if not weekly basis, one year later, has that legislation -- has that law had an impact? >> the answer is yes, it's a start. but we have a long way to go in this country. it needs to be said the level of firearm violence in the united states is unacceptable. people, every time somebody proposes something to help, you know, you hear people say that won't solve the problem. the test is, does it make people in this country safer? i talked to victims and survivors of firearms violence all over the country they're facing very dangerous situations and people who think that this is part of who we are as americans are dead wrong. it's un-american.

it's not part of our american culture that people can't sit on the porch in their neighborhood or go to a country rock center or any of the places where we've seen these incidents happen. we need to be open to all solutions that help to protect americans. in the first year, mika, we've been on the ground with state and local bringing cases. the new straw purchasing and the trafficking statute that congress gave us. >> we need to look at all solutions. i'm curious about gun buybacks. i know it's small slice of it as an idea, but i don't hear much about that when we talk about the problem nationally, but when i was a reporter in local news i covered them. and they seemed to work and we're dealing with a country that has massive proliferation

of assault weapons out there, are buybacks are something that you would consider a good solution if. >> there's a lot of different opinions on this subject of buybacks. that's up to as you mentioned sort of state and local leaders to decide whether or not they want to implement those programs. they can as part of a broader application process, sometimes apply for funding. one of the things about this gun violence epidemic is that it's rally not a one size fits all approach. i go all over the country. i was in north dakota, new york, this problem looks way different in fargo than it does in manhattan and you got to give local law enforcement our partners enough leeway to address the problems the way they think is most effective in

their community. that's what we do at atf. the men and women at atf are incredible. they respond to every mass shooting. they respond to all of the cases that don't get on the news, right, 130 people are killed every day in the united states because of gun violence and atf is working with state and local partners, but it's different in places. >> director, good morning. as you know, it was a terrible weekend, fourth of july weekend a couple of weeks ago in baltimore, philadelphia, incidents all over the place that reminded us of this problem if our society, when you asked mayors of major cities what the problem is, in new york or illinois, where they have strong laws, it's the illegal guns. handgun violence in the country.

it's not somebody walking to a gun shop waiting for a background check. that's at the heart of what's happening in our city. >> there are two major i think pillars of the strategy to push back against this epidemic. one of them is do all the things we can, to identify the actual trigger pullers. most of the evidence shows that, you know, this many people commit crimes but a much smaller number. the good news is we can identify them using all sort of intelligence tools and we have to focus on them. and then repeat, right, they'll shoot over and over again. if you get one of them out of the community and in prison, punished them for the past thing they did you've interrupted the shooting cycle. the second part of the strategy

we have to stop or at least slow down the flow of firearm prs the legal firearms market into the black market the illegal firearms market. that's a multiprong strategy. part of it is what you asked me about making sure all gun dealers are following the rule and part of it is getting out there and bringing cases under the straw purchasing and trafficking. we did a case in florida just recently, 90 firearms headed for the mexican cartels, this is happening all over the country. a case in new jersey. manufacturing and distributing ghost guns illegally. part of that is us using our rules making authority to prevent people from breaking the law that congress passed. congress has said if you're in

the business of selling firearms for profit, you need to be running background checks and that applies to things that are readily convertible to being a gun. the president has been very specific about the fact that we need to increase under current law the number of background checks because that's a very effective way to deter people to get guns they're going to use in crimes. >> director, first of all, happy anniversary. secondly, you clearly you think about guns each and every day given your job. we live in this nation, we swim as ordinary citizens in an ocean of handguns. ghost guns, my question to you, what do you think drives this

passion for guns and guns and more guns? >> oh, gosh, you know. my career has been spent as a prosecutor, as a career prosecutor in the department of justice, i did cases with atf. i'm not -- i think a lot a lot violence, but i am also not a psychologist. look, i think a lot of different things drive this problem. it's not anyone thing. that's what makes it so hard to address, right? there are some people out there who have a passion for firearms and are law abiding citizens. we respect that and that's in the constitution. there are other people looking to make money and willing to break the rules to make money. there are other people who are very violent people that need guns that are tools of the trade and whether it's intimidation

and violence or mass shootings. there are other people that have mental health problems, what have you, that drive this. there's not any one solution. that's why the communities act had all these different kinds of efforts, a start at least, to deal with supporting states that want to do red flag laws and want to address mental illness issues, and trying to address all the different causes and not just one. it's just a start. we need to do more. at atf, the men and women, for get me, the 5,000-plus people that work at atf, they are not doing this for themselves but for the american people. they deserve our support. they are people doing a dangerous job. >> we thank them all for their service.

steve, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. coming up, pga tour representatives face a congressional grilling surrounding the proposed merger with the saudi-backed liv golf circuit. we will show you what they had to say on the controversial issue. and then georgia grand jury in georgia. we'll be right back. ight back. an ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv (janet) so much space!... now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. that open kitchen! (tanya) oooh definitely the one! (ethan) but how can you sell your house when we're stuck on a space station for months???!!! (brian) no guys, opendoor gives you the flexibility to sell and buy on your timeline. (janet) nice! (intercom) flightdeck, see you at the house warming.

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wow. the sunrise over dallas. what a beautiful shot as we come up on the top of the hour. pga representatives appeared before the senate committee yesterday on the golf's plans to surge. >> today's hearing is about much more than the game of golf.

it's about how a brutal repressive regime can buy influence. >> the tour plans to cut a deal with saudi-run liv golf. the pga tour initially fought back against what amounted to a hostile takeover but came to the table because they had no choice. >> money, rivers of money and a rational market force. >> that money is what has members of congress concerned. >> what are the amounts that have been discussed? >> north of $1 billion. >> they believe there's not enough money in the world that ignores the possible connection the saudis had to the attacks.

>> if any person had the remotest connection to an attack on our country and the murder of my friends, i am the last guy that would be sitting at a table with them. >> but he handed the report about the 9/11 attacks doesn't agree. >> nbc's ryan nebbles with that report. the republican chairman of the house oversight city continues to defend a key member in the biden family investigation, who faces now a federal indictment. we're back in 90 seconds.

welcome back to "morning joe." it's wednesday, july 12th. mike barnicle still with us. look at that beautiful shot of a sunny morning in washington, d.c. live pictures of the white house for you. this hour president biden is set to meet with ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy at the nato summit in lithuania, and it comes as the white house stands firmly behind the war-torn

nation while stopping just short of endorsing a plan for ukraine to join the alliance immediately. zelenskyy has not been shy about criticizing that approach. we asked jake sullivan about that dynamic last hour on "morning joe." >> the united states based on a similar kind of approach we used with israel will make a firm commitment to ukraine to not just in this current conflict, but over the long-term we will provide ukraine with the means to defend itself and to deter future aggression. president biden knows president zelenskyy is leading a nation at war and under assault day in and day out by a vicious military campaign, and he knows president zelenskyy has strong views and is not afraid to express those views, and president biden is very strayed forward and honest

with president zelenskyy, and that will be the character of the meeting they have. >> let's go to the summit in lithuania, and that's where we will find monica alba. >> reporter: i think this will be a critical face-to-face, willie, between the two leaders that have met several times in the last couple of months or so and you can expect they will come together and have a candid exchange. remember when president zelenskyy came to washington, d.c. in that very secretive trip, he addressed congress and he said thanks for everything so far but i need more. that has been the tone and the backdrop to the entirety of the relationship between the u.s. and ukraine. the u.s. has continued to support ukraine, and continued to pledge billions of dollars in aid, continued to supply them

with weaponry, and ukraine came into the summit wanting a commitment of a timeline of when they could join nato. they should be able to continue through that membership that process, and there's no guarantee of when that could happen especially with the raur continuing to raise on inside ukraine as it defends itself against russia, and it could take a long time potentially for ukraine to join the critical alliance. we will see in the next few hours the g7 leaders come together to pledge even more security assistance in the form of helping ukraine's military build itself up to the point where it could deter any future attack, and that's significant because that's among some of the aid we are seeing coming from other critical countries like france and germany.

other nato members saying they will help train ukrainian pilots to fly the f-16 fighter jets. and this is coming, of course, after the u.s. pledged to send the cluster munitions to ukraine. that's what the president will stress in his speech today as well, saying if president putin thought the west could be divided, he's never been more wrong given the unity and support here now. >> nbc's monica alba, thank you very much for joining us this morning. joining us now, new york time's opinion columnist, david french. >> i am checking to see how old david is. >> what? just ask him. >> i didn't know you were born in alabama.

>> i was basically born in alabama, and no more of the roll tide stuff. >> oh, my goodness. >> both of my parents go big blue. so i was checking your age because you and i for the most part, i am older than you, but you and i grew up in an era where the soviet union and totalitarianism pushed up against western democracy, american democracy, jeffersonian democracy, and the store line went down berlin, and that's the world we have known. that's why when i show you the map i'm about to show you right now, it's actually disorienting, because this is what freedom looks like now in green. you look at sweden, and finland

who famously stayed about as noncommittal as switterland, and look at that map and what putin has done. this is the sort of thing that happens over the next 10, 20, 30 years. talk about the momentous impact of what's happened in central and eastern europe over the last year and a half. >> yeah, it's -- it's a strategic disaster ultimately for vladimir putin. he successfully expanded nato in the effort to assert russian dominance in its near abroad, and that's what he has done, much of his army is in ruins in ukraine, and nato is stronger than it used to be, and over time ukraine itself might be in nato. i think it's important that

ukraine be in nato. i was in ukraine in may and spent time talking to ukrainian leaders, and i will tell you the stakes here. they are convinced that even if they win this war that there will be another attempt by russia to dominate ukraine unless ukraine is brought into nato. if ukraine is in nato, that means peace. it means peace in a very tangible way. i will never forget crossing the border on a train back from ukraine into poland, and the minute you hit poland, you get a sense of security and peace. nato membership means over the long-term peace and deterrence, not war and conflict. >> david, i would like to change the topic a little bit here based upon your last column from "the times" who truly threat

kwrepbts threatens the church, and it's not about the depth of beliefs, but the christian right, the christian nationalists have got a lot out of the trump administration, and they got a supreme court ruling that should please and satisfy them, but they seem to want a lot more increasingly. i am wondering about their eyesight when they look at trump, what do they see, a good man or a bad man? my question to you is, based upon your knowledge which is far greater than mine, what percent of their belief is in believability or connivance? >> a lot of connivance. with donald trump they had

access and power, and trump was shrewd about giving them an enormous of access, and you will see they have the oval office picture with donald trump and the thumbs up, and he gave them access to that room. he gave them access to power. and then the whole trumpist ethose is about wielding power, and i think if you talk to people that have real experience with the trump administration, they know who he is but they know they can use him to gain a level of access and authority that many other republican presidents wouldn't give them specifically. and many other republican presidents or republican candidates don't have the same authoritarian view of the world,

so they won't have that mind melt listening to the authoritarian voices. >> the middle class evangelical church, and southern baptist, and i'm not sure if you grew up in the southern baptist church, and many in the church rightfully felt under siege by the change in the '60s and '70s, but i am not talking about the racial change, but they saw the sexual revolution and they saw kids on college campuses burning their draft cards, and they saw all of this happening and felt under siege. if you want to see how people in the south and evangelicals and

southern conservatives were represented at that time, watch "dukes of hazard," or maybe the sheriff in "live and let die." that's what we grew up in and that's what influenced politics in time. this is something evangelical leaders have not done, they continue to whine about being the great oppressed when they are greater and politically collected than before, and it was all about religious freedoms under attack. that's all they say. the united states supreme court before trump began granting

unprecedented religious freedoms going back a decade or so. >> right. >> and they are pretending that didn't happen, and it's a great lie that they continue to shove down the throat of parishioners and politicians. >> yeah, it's pretty breathtaking. joe, it's not all 6-3 with the nominees opposing each other, the recent case was 9-0, and the term before that that involved a catholic agency was 9-0, and i can go through case after case that are 9-0, or 7-2, and that argument lacks a foundation in law right now that religious freedom is under mortal threat. what has happened is the emphasis in some quarters, not

everywhere, but in some quarters on the right is to emphasize authority but not so much liberty. which is we don't want you to leave us alone, that's liberty, and we want to control you, and that's authority. you see this in things like the book purges in school libraries, and the speech code passed by ron desantis, and you see this in the rise of christian nationalism where this is religious authority being asserted instead of religious liberty being defended, and religious liberty is secure to a draw degree we have never seen in history. >> republican james comer says he still wants to talk to gal looft -- >> wait, is he the guy that was smuggling iranian oil illegally to the communist chinese --

>> he's facing charges. >> the illegal spy or agent of the communist chinese? he illegally -- he illegally sold arms. he's an arms dealer? >> well, they are indicting him on charges of acting as an unregistered agent of china. >> where is he? >> they can't find him and he's on the run and considered a fugitive by the doj. he was arrested in february before skipping bail -- >> i don't want to hear from comer. >> you don't? >> no, what he says, he's like, oh, they just arrested him, willie, they just arrested him because he was saying bad things about hunter biden. no, it was because they have

evidence that he was illegally smuggling oil to the chinese, and he's an illegal agent of the communist chinese party. it's unbelievable the things that these republicans in the house, especially, are willing to just -- just look past if they will lie about hunter biden or somebody else. >> yeah, there's important chronology here, too, that he was arrested and charged before congressman comer and the oversight committee has ever heard of him, and now they are saying he is a source to get to the biden crime family, but this all happened before they were aware of him. dan golden of new york is a member of the house oversight committee. you and congressman jamie raskin wrote a letter, and they said we are concerned an official committee in the house of

representatives has been manipulated by an apparent con man. it appears as if mr.luft sought whistleblower protection, and mr. luft may be in furtherance of the ccps -- >> who is mr. luft? who is he not? >> he's not a whistleblower, and he's an alleged con man that brokered deals between china and iran, and was an unregistered

agency advancing the interest of the ccp in the united states, and very importantly is indicted on making false statements to the fbi, including in the very meeting that he provided information about hunter biden to the fbi. so the remarkable situation that we are in now is that the key whistleblower informant/witness in chairman comer's oversight investigation into the bogus allegations of the biden crime family and all that is actually somebody who has represented the interest of the ccp, has lied to the fbi and is a fugitive from justice, who is literally running away from accountability, from the united states court system, and upon receiving that information, chairman comer, we would naturally think, oh, boy, let's

hold back because this guy has zero credibility and he could be advancing nefarious interests. no, he's doubling down now and trying to continue to use this alleged criminal to support his bogus allegations. >> so congressman goldman, across the aisle from you, you have congressman comer, who is after the biden crime family, and my question to you is there has been a hint that perhaps with senator ron johnson and congressman comer they now want to offer immunity to mr. luft. how does that work? >> first of all, that won't happen and they won't go through it especially now that he has been charged.

senator johnson said he should receive immunity and that's after senator johnson knew mr. luft had been charged with crimes. it demonstrates where the conspiratorial republican party is right now, that they would want to give immunity to somebody charged with such serious crimes just to further their own politicized investigations. they are misusing and abusing the committee process, the official committees of the congress in order to try to make a political hit on the president. none of their allegations, nothing they have come up with, nothing they have said, connects to president biden. that's very important to remember. they can call it the biden crime family and all this stuff, but nothing they have found made any connection to president biden,

yet they will lump him in with anything they have to say. it's a disgrace to anybody that has done an investigation, and it's a disgrace to this institution. >> congressman don goldman of new york, thank you very much for being on this morning. >> thank you, dan. you have, again, you can't make this stuff up. you have republicans, now, again, defending a president, a former president who it certainly looks like has stolen nuclear secrets, he has stolen war plans to invade iran, who stolen documents talking about the weaknesses of the united states and how to exploit them, and lied to the fbi about it. they are defending him. now they are defending an international fugitive that illegally -- that illegally sold iranian oil, and doing the bidding of the communist chinese. i could go on and on.

this is beyond parody. republicans in my day would call it un-american. >> joe, i have been fielding messages and emails from people saying when you are going to talk about the, quote, biden crime family. >> you and ginni thomas communicate back and forth. is that what you are telling me? >> look, my position on this has been obvious. the outlets and people who spent years gaslighting us and lying to us during the trump administration and following the 2020 election are not the go-to reliable people that i will be looking to to illuminate the truth of american politics. when you watch something like this indictment and this source just kind of blow up and unravel, it's the least surprising thing in politics. look, that doesn't mean that

everybody in the biden family has integrity or operated with integrity. we have seen hunter biden's problems. they are obvious. every time the right wing media grabs on to something that everybody should fall in and pay close attention to the very serious claims, look, it's the old adage, fool me once, shame on you, and fool me twice, shame on me. look, these guys have been trying to fool us for years, and when you squander your credibility, you can't be critical of those -- >> you just made me miss george w. bush. it's remarkable what people

don't know about a little program called pep far. it was called the greatest program of his lifetime, a government program that saved 25 million lives in africa. i remember talking about it, and let's talk about the evangelical movement and how it has changed. i remember when i first started running in '93 and '94, there was a lot of talk about abortion and culture wars, and evangelical kids were talking about aids in africa and hunger, and they were what i call matthew:25 christians. how of that environment, george bush was moved to do everything

they could do about aids, and people made that their life mission, bono, aide workers, george w. bush saved 25 million lives in africa. it's coming up for reauthorization this fall, and i hope it's a no-brainer. most of the people around the table didn't know what it was, didn't understand what george w. bush has done. it is, isn't it, one of the most successful government programs of our lifetime >> yeah, it's one of the best things this country has ever done in its history, and it's not just a successful government program but one of the most successful things this country has done, and the phrase was both a reflection of bush's heart, and a reflection of how

many in the angelical community saw themselves in what they wanted in the conservative politics was compassion, and it grieves me to see so many of the same people who were advocate compassionut conservatism. there are millions of angelicals that are grieved by the change, and that's the tip of the sphere is this punitive pugaism. >> columnist for "the new york times," david french, thank you for being on this morning. still ahead, republican senator tommy tuberville, and we

will take a look at some of the fallout from his comments and how the senator isinto backtrack but not really. plus, what it means to be a war reporter. we will be joined by a long-time correspondent out with a new book detailing her journey along the front lines. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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welcome back. republican senator, tommy tuberville, of alabama is now backtracking on comments this week in which he said is only some peoples' opinion that white nationalists are racist, and he implied he would be okay with white nationalist serving in the

military, and take a look at that interview followed by his remarks on monday. >> we are losing in the military so fast, and the democrats are attacking our military, saying we need to get out the white extremist, the white nationalist -- >> you mentioned the biden administration trying to prevent the white nationalists from being in the military. do you believe they should be allowed in the military? >> they call them that, and i call them americans. first of all, i am totally against any type of racism, okay. i was a football coach for 40 years and i dealt and had an opportunity to be around more minorities than anybody on the hill. white nationalists is just another word they want to use

other than racism. >> you agree white nationalists should not be serving in the u.s. military, is that what you are saying? >> if people think white nationalists are racist, i agree with that. >> white nationalists are a group of people that believe white nationalists is somebody that beliefs the white race is superior. >> well, i am 110% against racism. >> after those remarks, both leaders, schumer and mcconnell criticized the alabama senator yesterday and soon after receiving backlash from both sides of the aisle for his comments, tuberville attempted to backtrack his remarks. >> the senator from alabama is wrong, wrong, wrong. the definition of white nationalism is not a matter of

opinion. white nationalism, the ideology that one race is inhairantly is superior to others is racist down to its rotten core. for the senator for alabama to obscure the racist nature of white nationalism is, indeed, very, very dangerous. i urge my republican colleagues to impress on that senator to ask him to apologize. >> white supremacy is unacceptable in the military and in our whole country. >> i'm totally against racism. if the democrats say that a

white nationalist, if they said that was racist, then i am totally against them, and i am against any form of racism, and i was a football coach and i dealt with more minorities than anybody here. >> he still didn't say that white nationalists are racist. he says, oh, if that's somebody's definition. but this guy has lived in the south for 50 something years, 55, 56, 57 years. he knows exactly what white nationalism is, and he knows that white nationalists believe that black people and hispanic people, and anybody who is not white, they are inferior because of their race. he understands that.

so i am not exactly sure why he still has not said that white nationalists are racist. but this idea that he is backtracking, no, he has not backtracked at all. >> well, he still might be under concussion protocol. who knows? but his ignorance is still impeding the promotions and the pay scale ups for millions and hundreds of votes for the military members, and he does it every day, impeding progress that a lot of families have problems with moving from one state to the other because of lack of health benefits for women and the fear of having to need reproductive services from

doctors that won't be available to them, and this guy is impeding all of that in addition to what he's doing, displaying his ignorance on the daily basis. it's ignorance and it's the definition of who senator tuberville is. >> i would go further, unfortunately. i wish this was ignorance. that would explain it if he was just stupid, if he was just a stupid man, but he's not. he lived in that state for a long time. he served the state. he has coached in the state. he knows exactly what he's saying, and he's speaking to white nationalists in that answer, sort of like stand back and stand by, where you are nonsensical and you are not speaking to them, no, he knows the definition and he will not

condemn white nationalism. it's not ignorance. this was his point. the cruelty and the white nationalism was the point here. >> and he said democrats were criticizing him, but republicans were criticizing him for that as well. >> well, he brings it back to the democrats and -- no. >> i always like to talk about this country moving towards a more perfect union, and there are a group of republicans that are taking, at least their wing of the party, in reverse very quickly. it's 2023 and you have a united states senator that is refusing to call white nationalists racists, and only says well, if that's what you say they are -- >> that's what democrats say they are. >> it was not so long ago that an iowa congressman got kicked

off all of his committees by the republican party for saying things that were far less offensive than what tuberville is saying every day. >> yes, let's bring in white house correspondent for politico and co-author of the playbook, eugene daniels. what are you hearing about this? tommy tuberville was not in the news just for white nationalism, but for holding up nominations and promotions in the military as a result. >> yeah, there's frustration in the republican party because of his failure to say anything against white nationalists in this country or in the military because folks get distracted from what some of them agree with, that he's trying to force the pentagon to get rid of the rule that they are allowing

women and people that needed abortions to travel and all that, and he's holding up the nominations because of it. i will say somebody that played football until my college years, you can be a college coach and still have racism in there. he has moved the goal post on this, and one starting with wanting a vote on this and rescinding this from the pentagon, and now he's standing further in the gap saying he wants the pentagon to retract the policy. you talk to anybody within the administration, and anybody in the pentagon, in the department of defense, and they will say it's unlikely this will happen, and so it leaves you at a stand still. when you talk to a lot of the republicans, what they say is now the readiness, if he continues this, and you have the lack of one calmen tkaupbt, if

that continues, that affects the readiness of the military, which is what he says he is trying to stop. senator schumer -- well, it could further politicize the military and these nominations. i will say folks were looking at mitch mcconnell to try to push tuberville to do something different, and mitch mcconnell doesn't agree with him holding these like this, and he doesn't usually unless necessary strong arm the colleagues and folks in his party unless necessary. >> senator mcconnell has said explicitly he disagrees with

what tuberville is doing, but part of the irony and richness is something eugene just referred to, which was in the comments we heard where tommy tuberville feels like the military is getting too woke, and he feels like it's hurting our military readiness, while he has spent the last few weeks, he's holding up the promotions. >> this is no small matter. i think 250 military promotions are blocked. this could involve new nominated members for the joint chiefs. it's affecting these military families. it makes it harder for them to get the assistance they need to move to a new location for a new assignment, and there are real repercussions from his actions, which, by the way, president

biden yesterday called bizarre, may be in a way more serious than the repercussions than his words. coming up, how president biden's meeting with president volodymyr zelenskyy could shape the war effort moving forward. that's straight ahead on "morning meeting." "morning joe." oe."

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♪ coming up, a live report from iowa where republicans are moving to sharply limit abortion rights. what the governor plans to do with a bill that bans the procedure after about six weeks of pregnancy. plus, the june inflation report is out this hour. nbc's stephanie ruhle joins us to break down the numbers, straight ahead on "morning joe."

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welcome back. the family of american journalist evan gershkovich who is detained in russia says president biden made a promise to help. the parents say the president promised to do, quote, whatever it takes to get their son out of a russian prison where he has been held for over 100 days. the great risks taken by journalists reporting overseas is the subject of a new memoir by longtime war correspondent jane ferguson, who describes the intense experiences she lived through during her 13 years reporting in the middle east. it's entitled "no ordinary assignment." it certainly is. jane, thank you very much for joining us. i want to know more about your

choice to become a war reporter. how did that come about? >> i grew up in a place where there was a low level conflict ongoing. i grew up in northern ireland where we, of course, had an ira insurgency against british rule. it was something that was a really intense part of my childhood. it was also something that people didn't talk about an awful lot. i grew up this very precocious kid asking a lot of questions about the sectarian society i was growing up in and also about insurgencies. in the process of writing this book, i think i looked back at that as a formative experience for me. he talked about how it was a fairly patriarchical area. i saw women reporting the news.

people really listening to their stories. i knew from a very young age that that's what i wanted to do. >> looking at the incredible work and your career, 13 years in the middle east covering the arab spring, the syrian civil war, the war in afghanistan, south sudanese civil war and yemen civil war. you were the only american broadcaster to remain at kabul airport through the entire evacuation crisis. time and time again, these were very dangerous assignments. can you talk about moments in your career where you were in danger? >> you bring up the fall of kabul. yes, these are dangerous assignments. they are also the moments that we really sign up for this work for. essentially, i couldn't think of a story that -- where it was more important to be on the ground helping people understand, helping the american

public that were watching our evening news broadcasts, what was happening to the afghans there. what it was like for the american soldiers standing at abbey gate every night. for me, that was a risk that was 100% worth taking, myself and my cameraman eric throughout those days. it's an example of u.s. foreign policy playing out in front of your eyes. a tragic moment in history. that was an extremely dangerous place to be standing every day, reporting from outside the abbey gate, reporting from outside kabul airport where thousands of stranded people were desperately trying to get in. i eventually was told that i had to get on the next c-17 plane out of there after ten days, because they were handing over the facility i was staying at with british soldiers to the taliban. within hours of getting toen that plane, the bomb went on that killed american soldiers and more afghan civilians. these are moments where you are reminded in your work that it's really just sometimes luck that gets you out of these places alive.

>> you know, you have covered so much desperation. moments of desperation for human beings. i wonder how you process that. you wrote about being in a makeshift hospital and witnessing a baby dying on a hospital bed. you said to stand in a hospital with a camera and not a stethoscope is grotesque. how do you process that feeling of being almost standing and viewing something but not engaging? >> this is something i think many foreign correspondents and war reporters grapple with. it's the fear that there is a futility sometimes to the work. is what i'm doing helping? this is something that i have struggled with throughout the years, especially when you are covering famine. on the one hand, us journalists, we know what we are doing on a broad scale is helping.

that we are contributing, that we are doing something. but i don't feel like i'm helping this one person right in front of me. that, i think, is what's very, very difficult. most people think the hardest part of the job must be lack of sleep, danger, food poisoning. it's never that. it's always the moments where you are fearful that you might be intruding and that you are not helping. i think it takes an act of faith that believe what you are doing is in some way additive. >> important to tell the story. the new memoir is entitled "no ordinary assignment." jane ferguson, congratulations on the book. thank you for writing it and sharing your stories. thank you for coming on the show this morning. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," a show of force aimed squarely at vladimir putin's war machine. president biden and ukrainian president zelenskyy to stand side by side at the nato summit in lithuania. we will go live to europe for a preview of their meeting,

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good afternoon. welcome to all of you. welcome to this first meeting of the nato ukraine council. this is truly an historic moment, allies and ukraine sitting side by side as equals to address our common mission of security. i'm really honored to welcome in our midst our dear friend volodymyr zelenskyy, president of ukraine. welcome to you. it's great to have you here. [ applause ] >> one of the big moments this morning from day two of the nato summit in lithuania. we will have more on the new security commitments to ukraine in just a moment. we are keeping an eye on wall street, which is reacting to new inflation numbers. we will break that data down.

>> it's really surprising numbers. >> what it says about the u.s. economy and how it could impact the fed's upcoming decision on interest rates. we will get a live report from iowa, the latest state to pass a near total ban on abortion. it's the top of the fourth hour of "morning joe." 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the east. mike barnicle with us. joining us now, professor of history at tulane university, the great walter isaacson. we have a lot to get to. willie? >> quite an introduction to live up. >> i go away a couple months and then she thinks you are great. we begin with the secretary day of the nato summit in vilnius, lithuania. the secretary-general unveiled a plan to bring ukraine closer to membership.

the plan will establish, quote, a new nato-ukraine council, reaffirming ukraine will become a member of nato and removing the requirement for the membership action plan. joining us live with more is monica alba. what's the latest there? i know we are waiting for the meeting between president biden and president zelenskyy. a significant step here from nato promising eventually to bring in ukraine. >> reporter: exactly, willie. we did see the president had an opportunity to greet president zelenskyy a little bit earlier over the course of the summit in a more informal manner. they did shake hands and exchange some pleasantries. the meat of the meeting and the actual bilateral that they're going to be having here shortly is going to be one where we do expect the ukrainian president to continue to thank the u.s. for the support that the country has given so far as it's in the midst of war, defending itself against russia, but also

pressing the case to continue to ask for more. it is things like that fast track to a nato membership, which was announced here in the last 24 hours or so, that president zelenskyy says he is grateful for. but it comes after he was really quite frustrated and wasn't shy at all about how disappointed he was that there wasn't going to be a quicker time line coming out of the meeting of world leaders. he has said he would like some certainty, because uncertainty connotes weakness. he is moderating that tone today. he is greeting world leaders saying he looks forward to the day when he can formally have ukraine be a part of nato. allies agree that certain conditions need to be met whether it comes to security reforms and when it comes to democratic reforms before that conversation can really take place. president biden and other major g7 leaders are going to be coming together to talk about the continued support and helping the ukrainian military build up to a place where they

can deter any future attacks. you are going to continue to see this security assistance. also news of ukrainian pilots trained by some of the nato countries for f-16 fighter jets supplied by the united states. that's set to take place we have learned next month. that process getting underway. something president zelenskyy said he was very grateful for. then later today, the president is going to give a major address here in vilnius where he will continue, we understand, from the white house, to directly address president putin in terms of what he assessed could happen at the beginning of the war and his attempt to divide the west over the invasion of ukraine and president biden is expected to say the unity and support for ukraine is stronger than ever and that the only person here who stands to lose is president putin. >> a lot still ahead. monica alba reporting live from the nato summit in lithuania. thanks so much.

walter, it's fascinating to hear president biden will address president putin in that speech later today. he is doing it on solid ground as he stands there with a nato alliance stronger than ever, adding sweden, adding finland before that and promising now eventually down the road to add ukraine. extraordinary what is happening in the last 16 to 18 months. >> it's a great triumph for president biden to hold nato together. it's one of the true failures of vladimir putin to try to enter this war and then realize that finland and now probably sweden are going to become part of nato. one of the great defeats for russia. i think biden is correct in my opinion to go slightly slow and cautious about ukraine membership into nato. it is a goal you want. but it is a long process. a process that's probably -- this will get me in some

trouble -- gotta include a negotiatd an end to the war. that's got to be part of the discussion. after this war, what exactly will ukraine's relationship with nato be? will it be a security guarantee? will it be full membership? >> we will be following that. we want to turn to the breaking news. inflation fell to the lowest rate in more than two years. the consumer price index for june shows prices eased to 3%. that's a notable cooldown from the 4% annual increase in may. >> let's bring in senior business analyst stephanie ruhle. the best inflation numbers since august of 2021. a real slowdown. this is what the fed, this is what the white house, this is what economists have been looking for for quite some time.

isn't it? >> it's what everybody should be. this is a moment to raise the roof for a bit. the annual rate last year of inflation this time was 9.1%. that is jaw dropping. that's so painful. we know what we were enduring a year ago. the fed has taken serious action. it has been difficult. we know over the last year, we have seen ten rate hikes, now putting rates just over 5%, which is tough. look at inflation. we are now around 3%. it's not ideal or perfect. why are people excited? where are you seeing the markets pop? it's another sign we are most likely going to have a soft landing. it's really difficult for the fed to sort of thread this needle. but as we get more data and as months go by, it's been a real positive. this is good news. >> what else is driving this? obviously the fed has taken great pains in raising interest rates to cool down the economy with more probably coming in the next few days.

what else is driving this cooldown in inflation? >> we are getting further and further away from the pandemic. the supply chain issues, people have gone back to work, productivity is up. we know how strong the jobs market is. all of this has been a net positive. it's not nirvana. housing costs, housing is expensive. look at your food prices. look at gas prices. things are moving in the right direction. that's really a big positive. >> i want to ask you about those two items you mentioned. i don't know whether they break it down in terms of inflation by subject. gas and food seem to be the drivers in terms of poll numbers when people react to the question of how are we doing as a country. things aren't great because basically i think they choose gas prices and food prices as

their index. >> because people see them and they feel them every day. house prices, those are locked in. you sign a lease a year ago. you set your mortgage. these take a long period of time to work out. your food prices, every week when you go to the grocery store, it's normally $60, why is it suddenly 80s? why are we at $100? gas prices, you see it flash by when you are on your way to work every day. you feel it at the pump. when things are going down like they have been over the last year, it's a positive. it just makes people's day to day lives easier. they are easier than where we were a year ago. >> it's walter here. what's entering to me is wage inflation. there was good news/bad news here, which is wage inflation has cooled, which i guess is good for the inflation rate. it's not good for raising the wages of the middle class. explain that to me.

>> listen, it's a tricky one. as much as we want to see wages go up, that's a net positive for workers, we also know when wages go up, higher prices get passed down to us. just this week, i was talking to a number of small businesses who we profiled during the pandemic who were struggling during the pandemic. now they are struggling again, because they are struggling to find workers. it's expensive to hire workers. small businesses are saying, we cannot pay up to bring workers in. workers are saying, if i don't get paid more, then i can't afford childcare, i can't afford my expensive rent. wages are very, very tricky. we want them to collectively go up. but when they go up too quickly, we know as consumers, we get passed on higher prices. that's difficult for all of us. >> stephanie ruhle making sense of the numbers for us. thank you. we will be watching you on msnbc. a year ago right now, inflation was 9.1%.

this morning, it sits at 3%. that's an extraordinary drop in 12 months. >> another incredible sign. >> it is. the goal is 2%. they want inflation at 2%. they are moving very close to that point. we have been having the discussion for a year, year and a half, was there going to be a soft landing? is there any way the fed could get the united states' economy through this, bring down inflation, suppress the red hot growth in the economy in a way that would not cause a recession? right now, i think you are going to see it on wall street for some time, there's a celebration for a lot of people thinking that just maybe there will be that soft landing. >> let's hope. overnight, lawmakers in iowa passed a controversial six week abortion ban. iowa governor kim reynolds convened a special legislative

session specifically to focus on passing this measure. protesters could be heard from inside the chamber of the state capital rallying in the halls on both sides of the issue. conservative lawmakers want governor ren oeld reynolds to s bill right away. >> one of the biggest changes we have seen politically when you look at the map across america politically has been the movement to the solid red column. former swing states like iowa, ohio, wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania, that's what elected donald trump in 2016. these extreme positions on abortion seen as extreme by the voters in the state, it has had a devastating impact in wisconsin. you have the members of the

wisconsin republican party saying we are in freefall. the legislature there was too stupid to amend a total abortion ban from i think the 1840s. we see now it's happening in iowa. we see stories out of ohio of 10-year-old girls raped and having to flee the state. again, we can debate theology, we can debate the morals of it. but just on pure politics, this really does seem if you look at what's happened in kansas and kentucky and wisconsin, looks like the republicans and the state legislatures are oblivious to the political tide sweeping the country since dobbs. >> you know, tides are going to sweep. you can't rail against the tides. what i think people on the left

or people -- democrats and those in favor of choice are got to do is take over state legislatures. i don't think democrats have focused as much as they should on winning back the legislatures. this is where all the action is happening. by the way, everything from gerrymandering to election laws to abortion laws happen in the legislatures. if you don't use this tide that you say is happening, this tide against the new abortion restrictions to win yourself back some of the legislatures, you really ought to go out of business as a party. >> for more on this, let's bring in shaquille brewsrth state cap. shaq, what's the latest there now? >> reporter: good morning. that 15-hour special session went late into the night. just had one goal, that was to pass new abortion legislation for the state of iowa. for republicans here, it was mission accomplished. the governor says she will sign

this legislation on friday as access to legal abortions nationwide continues to fall. >> shame on you! blood on your hands! >> reporter: iowa on the verge of enacting a ban on abortion. >> the bill has passed the senate. the title was agreed to. >> reporter: iowa lawmakers passing legislation blocking the procedure after the detection of cardiac activity. banning abortion at roughly six weeks before most women know they are pregnant. >> if they are not prepared to have a baby, they shouldn't have sex. >> reporter: iowa republicans passed a nearly identical version in 2018 that was blocked. but that came before the u.s. supreme court overturned roe v. wade and republicans hope a more conservative state supreme court will let this stand. what kind of impact would this

have? >> it would affect almost all the patients we see. >> reporter: the bill includes exemptions to protect the life of the mother and for rape and incest if reported to law enforcement, public health authorities or a doctor. >> if this bill becomes law, women will die in iowa. common sense has walked out the door. >> reporter: iowa's governor promising to sign the bill into law friday. iowa would become the 16th state restricting abortion access to six weeks or less. 14 of those states currently ban the procedure with few exceptions. >> as soon as that child is conceived, it's a child. it's alive. it matters. >> reporter: a march poll say people say it should be legal. the limited providers are scrambling saying they are unsure of what happens next. >> i want to continue to practicing medicine. i think the language is so vague that i need to know when i can

intervene to save a woman's life. >> reporter: this ban goes into affect immediately after being signed by the governor. kim reynolds says she will sign this friday. clinics have begun started moving back appointments. they are looking for out of state options for women seeking this care. one thing that we have seen is that this has already had an impact. this debate has had an impact over the past year. you welcome at minnesota, we learned that the number of iowans traveling to minnesota just last year tripled with the debate and with the prospect of abortion bans like this being passed. many lawmakers expect this to end up in the courts. planned parenthood signaling they may file a lawsuit. >> nbc's shaquille brewster, thank you. i talked about the politics of it. you can also talk about what

shaq talked about people going to minnesota. you can talk about economic development, women's health is the first issue. you can talk about decisions that are going to be made by businessowners whether to move into states or not based on a total ban of abortion. you are not only going to have a lot of women workers, you are going to have women who are spouses of men who might be moving to iowa or their partners moving to iowa. just saying, i'm not going there. >> republicans need to get real on this issue. they are not being honest at all. if the women in their lives or if they are women, they would want health care. they are denying access to life saving health care, health care that they will need or someone they love will need at some point in their life. they are being hypocrites. they are being liars. to bring up issues like some

candidates are -- i think chris christie talking about how democrats, they allow abortion in the ninth month. look at the data. okay? less than 1% of abortions in a third trimester are happening right now. when they do, it's a very difficult situation. they are treating women like they are stupid, like they don't know what to do with their bodies. they are treating doctors like they are stupid, like they don't know how to save a woman's life and how to make a good decision about trying to preserve life. but they are being hypocrites. they are not looking at the writing on the wall, because people across america and many of them are republicans, many of them are republican women husbands of republican women or sisters or aunts or daughters. they need this health care.

>> you look -- mike barnicle, going from the political side, you look at the iowa number. 60% of iowans want abortion to be legal. in most cases, some are most cases, 60%. these are the same sort of numbers we saw in michigan before gretchen whitmer rolled a victory there. before democrats took over the legislature there. the legislature, republicans had control of. those are the same numbers that we saw in wisconsin before a supreme court race that republicans and democrats said was the most important election in years on the state level. and yet, again, they just -- the legislators keep putting their heads down and going to the house floor saying things like, if you don't want a baby, if a woman doesn't want to have a baby, don't have sex.

wonder what his advice is to the man who actually had something to do with that as well. again, the obliviousness of these people and the consequences that are going to -- >> they are not oblivious. >> they will face politically, it's all breathtaking. >> you know, joe, we are talking once again about one of the more pivotal moments in public life for everyone. whether or not a woman lasse an abortion. it has been going on for decades. it continues. it's incredible that one political party in many states continues to go back at it in terms of offending women by taking the government and putting them not only into their bedrooms but into their doctor's offices. whether or not to have an abortion is an extremely personal, extremely individual choice. usually made only by a woman in

concert with her husband or her partner, but quite often by the woman alone. that's her right. that's her right to choose in terms of her own health what she does with her body. the republican party, republican legislatures in too many states have inflicted themselves upon that right, that woman's right. it's interesting to see how this plays out not morally but politically. they keep going back at this, taking a choice that a woman has had guaranteed by the -- not by the constitution but by supreme court decisions for over 50 years. that's been removed. she no longer has that. the families no longer have that. it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out in terms of dialogue. the next few months in a presidential campaign. >> if you want to talk about the

morality of it, you can talk about the morality of 10-year-old girls having to flee states after being raped. talk about people being victims of incest, young girls victims of incest that are going to be forced to have abortions. you can talk about women who are having to make horrible decisions, trying to figure out what they are going to do. >> becoming sterilized because they were forced to give birth to a baby that was not going to survive. >> just one horror story after another. women suffering. >> you can work on that morality. >> if you want to talk about morality, again, you can talk about that morality, you can have that debate, but i will say for the evangelical church, it's remarkable that baptists and evangelicals were pro-choice until 1980.

pro-choice until 1980. now they are claiming it is the cornerstone of a christian faith. it's not biblical. if we want morality, we can talk about it. i think this is about political expediency. there's no room for a discussion in iowa or in other places. again, in ohio, 10-year-old girls are fleeing after being raped because the state is going to compel them to have a forced birth. we are awaiting the meeting between president biden and president zelenskyy at the nato summit. we will bring that to you whether it happens. there are no signs of relief for mil across the southern united states waking up this morning to another day of brutal heat. we will have the latest on the extreme temperatures stretching

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or want to shed those final 20, try golo for 60 days and never diet again. (uplifting music) ♪ the thought of getting screened ♪ we want to jump in and have you listen to president biden speaking at the nato summit. >> mr. zelenskyy and i talked about the kind of guarantees we could make in the meantime when i was in ukraine, when we met in other places. so today, the long-term commitments we are making are backed up by the notion that in the meantime, we are going to provide security to ukraine against any aggression that may occur. today the members of the g7 are launching a joint declaration of support for ukraine to make it

clear that our support will last long into the future. this starts a process by which each of our nations and any other nation who wishes to participate will negotiate long-term bilateral security commitments with and to ukraine. we will help ukraine build a strong, capable defense across land, air and sea from which we will force -- there will be a force of stability in the region and deter against any and all threats. i want to thank my fellow g7 leaders and president zelenskyy for their work to make this happen. i think it's a powerful statement, a powerful statement of our commitment to ukraine as it defends its freedom today and as it rebuilds the future. we will be there as long as that takes. again, i thank all my colleagues for their support for this. [ applause ] >> thank you very much, mr.

president, president biden, prime minister kishida, chancellor, prime minister, president macron, prime minister trudeau, president, great honor to be here. the outcome of the nato summit is much needed and meaningful, successful ukraine. i'm grateful for practical and presented their support considering the case of our relation support for ukraine. today there are security guarantees for ukraine on the way to nato. an important package of security guarantees. today we are coordinating with g7 countries the framework for security guarantee that shall be

further extended through arrangements with our key partners. bilateral and multilateral agreements. ukrainian delegation is bringing home significant security victory for the ukraine, for our country, for our people, for our children. it opens for us new security opportunities. i think everyone who made it possible, thank you. thanks. thank you very much. [ applause ] >> this concludes the speaking program. please remain seated for the family photo. >> remarkable speech by the leader of ukraine. joe biden talking about a g7 joint declaration of defense for ukraine. talking about long-term security

commitments, funding the defense of ukraine across air, land, and sea. >> wow. >> joe biden saying, we will be there for as long as it takes. in response, president zelenskyy praised the important package of security guarantees from key partners while they are on the pathway to nato membership. walter isaacson, it is remarkable, after lithuania, joe biden is going to be going to sweden. not sweden, i'm sorry. going to helsinki. it's going to helsinki five years after donald trump's humiliating performance in helsinki. five years to the week when donald trump sided with vladimir putin over the u.s. intel services. what a remarkable difference

five years has made. >> yes. >> you look back, helsinki is a place of many stories. some it's the greatest in 1990 when bush meets with gorbachev. we can use the phrase soft landing of the cold war. then, of course, in 2018 you talk about the trump strange summit. we never really have been given the information about what they said to each other. usually, those things become public. they had private conversations between putin and trump. as you said, trump sided with putin on the issue of whether or not russia tried to interfere with the elections. what you have now with biden going to helsinki is something totally transformative. i never thought i would see it. which is finland being part of nato. the other thing that struck me in the conference, those speeches that happened, is how much zelenskyy softened his tone.

even though we stressed about how biden gave security guarantees as long as it takes, biden didn't say, we're going to welcome you into nato. zelenskyy had been pushing for that. instead, he said, thank you for the notion that you are going to build up ukrainian military. >> mike, i think all of us at the table were struck as we listened to that yesterday, president zelenskyy was calling nato weak and said it was absurd they were not granting membership to ukraine. today, moments ago, he says, this nato summit has been, quote, a meaningful success for ukraine because of all the security guarantees, cluster munitions, the french are going to come with long-range ply missiles. he got a lot out of the deal. >> he got acceptance to nato eventually, probably within three years, maybe sooner. he also got probably behind closed doors the knowledge that the president of the united states knows that zelenskyy is a man of tremendous courage and honor. he is the head of a nation

that's being destroyed piece by piece by russia. zelenskyy on the other hand probably found out or was reminded by the president of the united states that the initial stages of this war, in the first ten days, when all of those russian tanks were eliminated, when several russian generals were killed because they used their cellphones, that that wasn't done by ukrainian intelligence. that was done by the united states intelligence apparatuses that were handed over -- not handed over to the ukraines, but utilized by the ukrainians to keep their country in the fight at the very beginning. we are where we are today because of two things. joseph biden and nato. look at this visual here of when zelenskyy came into the room earlier. he went directly to the president of the united states. not to the president of france. not to the prime minister of great britain. the president of the united states, that's one element of it. the other element of it is that

zelenskyy realizes that without the united states, it's a far different look in that field of war. >> that change of tone for zelenskyy comes a short time after the secretary-general said they are on a path, ukraine is on a path to nato membership. he said, we areseato than ever before, talking about ukraine, and said, today we meet as equals. i look forward to the day we pleat as allies, promising that ukraine some day soon will be in nato. millions of americans this morning are under heat warnings. record temperatures affect large swaths of the country. the blistering conditions stretch from california to texas and down into south florida. priscilla thompson is in houston with more. >> reporter: this morning, extreme heat is intensifying from coast to coast. >> there summer is worse than all of the past summers. >> reporter: triple digit temperatures baking the southwest today with highs expected to reach a staggering 120 degrees in some spots by the weekend.

experts say, it's historically hot. >> we are seeing things get worse and worse. we sometimes hear the expression a new normal. is this a new normal? it's worse than that. more intense and frequent heat waves, wildfires, floods like we see play out this summer. >> reporter: the official start of summer was just three weeks ago. already in south florida, miami has seen 31 consecutive days of a 100 plus degree heat index. >> the humidity kills you. >> reporter: in texas, el paso has had 26 100 plus degree days, the longest streak recorded. houston is bracing for another week of temps expected to feel like 105 and hotter. >> i came prepared. i knew i would die. >> it's been 100 degrees for two weeks almost. it's crazy. >> reporter: the prolonged heat has claimed more than a dozen lives this summer. july is on pace to be the hottest month in u.s. history.

the harsh combination of heat and drought hitting the heartland. impacting crops and produce. >> customers want to get fresh produce. unfortunately, i don't have as much to offer as i would have. mother nature needs to help us out. >> reporter: the never ending scorcher, leaving millions to brace for what's to come and hoping for relief. >> priscilla thompson joining us from houston. david lipsky joining us. his new book is "the parrot and the iigloo." we are talking about the heat. we have seen extreme temperatures, particularly this summer. flooding up in vermont, terrible flooding. it's everywhere you look right now. >> i have friends sending photos from vermont. >> the pictures are stunning. your book, you concede when you talk about the book, global warming, climate change books can be dry. this is more of a narrative

story all based in fact and a true story. >> the book is available at fine stores everywhere. >> that i think we can find the book. the story, where do we pick up the story? >> the story begins from the start. thomas edison investing electricity. in 1956, "time," not the hardest thing to find, it's a publication that walter knows very well, and one of the first american climate scientists said in about 60 years, there will be big changes that could have a violent affect on the culture, on the climate, rather, and we will know if there will be saltwater in new york and london. it took us 20 years to knock down the science. then in '79, when i was watching what we were watching just now, president carter asked a special study session of the national

academy of sciences to say, look, is this going to happen or not? they returned a quick verdict. the study -- the conclusions of the panel will be reassuring for scientists but disturbing for policymakers. we find no reason to doubt that if carbon dioxide continues to increase, climate changes will result. no reason to believe they will be negligible. the broadcast we saw is non-negligible climate change. >> from the warnings was born, as you get at in the book, a culture of denialism. it's not happening. it's not happening as fast as the alarmists are telling us. how did that side of the movement grow? >> it grew because it was interesting what mika was saying about abortion. when we look at data, it means we have to act. we have developed a culture across the board on a number of issues where we can just keep looking at the data and keep arguing and refining. that always plays into the hands of people who don't want a final

decision reached and who don't want action. >> excuse me for interrupting. how is it that this is such a visual and physical issue in the world, not just the united states, you can feel the heat, you can feel when you are freezing, you can see water coming up through your floor in a flood. how is it that with all of this physical, visible evidence, that climate deniers get away with saying it's not happening. >> they give us a way of looking at things. if you give someone the screen to examine through, then they see it that way. it's how magic works. the climate is always changing and you get something really hot, well, i remember hearing that the climate changes. this can't be that big a deal. the thing that you are asking reminds me of the famous example

that vice president gore used, the frog analogy. it will jump out of boiling water. if you put it lukewarm water, it will stay until it gets too hot. that's not true. in fact, some scientists -- the frogs will jump right out immediately. the only creatures that will stay in the water are us. >> tell me, we talked about the extreme events in texas. it's over 110 degrees in phoenix and austin even. we see the floods. people say, okay, those are weather events. they are not directly related to climate. how do you show that they are? do we know that they are? >> that's one of the fun things about the book. there were all these warnings. there's two things. the most famous american climate scientist -- he said -- what were you going to say?

>> go ahead. >> what he said is, it's random. climate is just the accumulation and weather is sort of random. he used to have big fuzzy dice, you put in the rearview. he said climate change is like loading the dice so that before you would roll and you might have eight over 90 degrees. if you keep loading the dice, it's more likely to get ten and more likely to get 12. that was how he explained the difference between weather and climate. >> you know, david, i have told the story a few times on this show. now it seems like a good time to repeat it. i was spending time with a guy who probably has never voted for a democrat in his life. one of the more conservative political people that i have been around. i asked him at one point, because he said -- he is a

leader in the insurance industry. i said, it se seems like you ar paying out a lot of money for natural disasters these days. i know you are really conservative. what's your position on climate change? he laughed at me. what are you talking about? he goes, i can show you what we were paying 20 years ago. i can show you what we are paying ten years ago. i will show you what we are paying this year. he said, you would have to be a fool to not know -- not believe, to not know that climate change is upon us and the result is nothing less than catastrophic. my god, that was five, six, seven years ago. it has only gotten worse for him. it has only gotten worse for other insurance companies. i have no sympathy for insurance companies. you just look at the data, the climate catastrophes, what they

are paying out. no comparison. >> yeah. the fascinating thing and what it a great story is we had warnings. what was frustrating for the sign firsts -- there's a quote from one of the scientists who briefed lawmakers almost 40 years ago. he went to them and said, this is going to happen. they are predicting this will happen. the lawmakers asked him, whether are the changes due to arrive? he said, you know, more or less 40 years. the politicians said, get back to us in 39. one of the things about the book is it shows -- it's a great way -- there's medical tests where you drink something and it shows how the body works. the great thing to write this book is that it shows you the ways we don't work as well as we used to work. we used to look at a problem, size it up and take action.

now we are endless studiers. never the finals. we see nature will schedule the finals for us. >> it's written in a narrative way, compared to a cohen brothers movie. that will sell books. it's titled "the parrot and the igloo, climate and the science of denial." david lipsky, thank you. i was going to tell you jim hanson was my little league baseball coach in new jersey. yeah. congratulations on the book. great to see you. thank you. we will be right back with more "morning joe." k with more "morning joe." r a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma that can mean less oral steroids. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist

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authority. >> florida governor ron desantis during an interview on a wisconsin radio show yesterday. in response to that answer, a trump campaign spokesman said, quote, ron desantis isn't anybody's guy, he's not the guy. he's just a guy. ron is just there, sullen and sad because his numbers are as tiny as him. >> wow. okay. >> oh, my god. >> the financial times this morning, ed loose writes this, desantis is setting himself up to be the most promising also ran of u.s. politics. he joins a list of diminished former hopefuls, the names scott walker, comes to mind, desantis would top that list. he also talked about the difference between desantis and bill clinton. bill clinton had this ability

that when he walked into a room in new hampshire, everybody in that room thought they were looking right at him. that he was looking right at them, and that he really liked being with them. desantis based on conversation with people who have met him in iowa and new hampshire, ed says they get the opposite impression, that they're with a candidate who they may want to vote for but a guy who doesn't like them. >> well, you know, bill clinton and ron desantis do not belong not only in the same sentence, they don't belong in the same universe. bill clinton was expert at many things politically, but one of his key pieces of expertise was eye contact. he established eye contact with people in a way that they sensed he came here just to see me. ron desantis apparently what i'm told, probably the same thing you've been told, joe by people in new hampshire especially, in

his appearances up there. he seems unable to establish or maintain eye contact with individuals. he will shake their hand, immediately look down to make sure he doesn't misstep, i don't know why and move on to the next person, but very little eye contact with people as if he's uncomfortable with people. and guess what, that's the way he does appear in person. he's uncomfortable being among people, you and me, ordinary people. >> meanwhile, presidential candidate nikki haley is calling for former president trump thin skinned after his latest attack on a fellow republican. >> it's what he does. i mean, when he feels attacked or he feels threatened, he's incredibly thin skinned and he starts to lash out. that's why i've always told him, he can tell you, you're your own worst enemy, don't do this. he has done that. his voters and supporters and the american people want the truth. i just speak hard truths. i just think we need to mauve

forward. our country can't keep dealing with his chaos and negativity. we've got to go forward. >> trump's slammed iowa governor kim reynolds on his truth social media platform earlier this week after she declined to endorse a candidate in the republican primary. the post reads in part, i opened up the governor position for kim reynolds when she fell behind, now she wants to remain neutral. i don't invite her to events. maybe that's what nikki haley was referring to with the thin skinned line. >> exactly. and the justice department will not defend donald trump in a lawsuit brought on by writer e. jean carroll. carroll sued trump for defamation in 2019 over comments he made while denying her allegation that he raped her if a new york city department store back in the 1990s. at the time, the justice department represented trump within the scope of his presidential duties, but now in a letter to the judge, the doj

writes it no longer believes trump should get presidential immunity citing new evidence. that includes the jury's verdict that found the former president liable for sexual abuse and defamation in a separate civil trial filed by carroll. and i don't think she's done. >> well, no, because donald trump is not done. >> continues to defame her. >> the guy can't help himself. he keeps defaming her. >> to nicki haley's point. mike, we start with you, final thoughts. >> my final thoughts are thank god the all star game is over, and they've put those jiffy lube uniforms back in the closet never to reappear. >> i can't wait for the sam stein memorial bunt contest to be held next year at the all star game. that aside, an extraordinary historic day at nato at the summit there in vilnius where you had all the western powers standing together shoulder to

shoulder with president zelenskyy who said this was an important day for his country with all the security he will leave lithuania with. >> this is a moment 2023, just like we saw 1989, 1991, this too extraordinary significant in european history. that does it for us this morning, ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. the coverage after a quick final break. nsurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ for moms, from centrum. ♪ this new mom ♪ ♪ here i go ♪ ♪ i am strong and brave i know ♪ ♪ with a little time for me ♪ ♪ no doubt i will get through ♪ ♪ loving me is loving you ♪ ♪♪ new from centrum. the women's choice multivitamin brand.

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this hour on "ana cabrera reports," breaking news, the long awaited nato meeting between president biden and ukraine's president zelenskyy. any minute now, the u.s. president meets with the wartime leader as ukraine pushes to join the alliance. plus, breaking economic news here at home, inflation hitting a two-year low. where we're seeing relief and what's still costing a pretty penny. also ahead, historic and catastroph.