much. that right there is going to do it for me today. i hope you are not sitting in a pool of sweat. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. today republicans made clear that the weakening, smearing, and hobbling of the agency charged with protecting all americans from drug cartels, terrorists, and gang violence, with tax alleging politicization is very much part of the republican party mission in service of donald trump. the twice indicted leader. a party that once proudly stood with law enforcement, today made clear that that party no longer exists. the republican posture toward the nation's premier law enforcement agency includes demeaning its trump hype appointed leader, lying about its conduct in the wake of a court-approved search for classified materials, and badgering the agency for not carrying out extra judicial

investigations into the current president's family. ted lieu, democrat of california, set to orient facts as they exist on earth one. watch. >> let me ask you a series of basic questions to get facts out to the american people about our system of justice. trump adviser roger stone was convicted in a federal court, correct? >> that's my recollection. >> trump donor elliott brady was convicted in a federal court. correct? >> also my recollection. >> the attorney general at the time for those two convictions was bill barr, which president nominated bill barr for attorney general? >> president trump. >> you were the fbi director for all of those cases at the time. which president nominated you? >> president trump. >> okay. what these facts show is we don't have a two-tiered system of justice. we have one department of justice that goes after criminals regardless of party

idealogy. all of these folks were convicted under the administrations of three separate republican attorneys general. it is not the fault of the fbi that donald trump surrounded himself with criminals. donald trump brought that upon himself. >> but republicans for their part were undeterred and seemed beyond shamed today. each member of the committee rolling out different examples of totally unfounded smears at the fbi. they maintain without evidence that the arms of law enforcement and justice in america are somehow unfairly targeting trump and his fellow conservatives. congressman matt gaetz asked director wray, pointblank, quote, are you protecting the bidens, a day after the house republicans' case fell apart with a supposed key witness in their case indicted for being an unregistered agent of china. oops. if anything, though, the hearing did highlight some very real questions about the role of

politics and the role politics have played in decisions made by this justice department, not just -- just not in any of the ways of the house republicans intended to highlight but in ways we've asked about often on this very program. chairman nadler pointed out the extraordinary deference prosecutors have shown donald trump in the classified documents case. watch that. >> director wray, house republicans have attacked the execution of the search warrant of mar-a-lago last august as a, quote, unprecedented raid. would you consider the execution of the search warrant at mar-a-lago a raid? >> i would not call it a raid. i would call it the execution of a lawful search warrant. >> and chairman jordan has attacked the doj and fbi for not attempting to get the documents back from trump consensually before turning to a search warrant. i want to walk through all -- the opportunities trump had to produce these documents and have a series of yes or no questions. national archives, also known as nara, first asked trump to

return all presidential records to them in may, 2021. correct? >> i don't -- i don't remember the date. but i remember there was a request by the national archives. >> in fact, it was not until january, 2022, after nara warned trump that failing to return documents could violate the records act that trump finally produced 15 boxes of documents to it. correct? >> again, i would refer to our court filings which go into great detail about all this. >> from may, 2022, a grand jury had to actually subpoena trump for the missing documents. correct? >> same answer. >> and trump was then present on june 3rd when his attorneys handed over another folder of documents and a certification that all classified material had been returned. correct? >> again, i just want to stick with what's in the court filings. that sounds right to may, but i want to be careful to stay within the four corners -- >> the certification was false, right? even then trump had not returned all classified material. correct? >> i think that is part of the indictment. >> yet additional documents

hiding in his bathroom and storage room -- storage units, et cetera. yes? >> again, i think that's part of the indictment. >> the excruciating work of separating fact from fiction when it comes to the work being done by the fbi and the justice department in the face of a blowtorch of politically motivated sponsorship is where we start today -- spin is where we start today. form assistant for counter intelligence at the fbi frank gilosi with us, former principal deputy assistant term mary mccord, and spokesperson at the department of justice anthony colie is here. lucky for us, all msnbc contributors. frank, your reaction to what you saw today? >> you know, nicole, my temptation here is to call this political theater, but that's not enough. that doesn't do it justice. what we watched today was worse than theater. it was essentially crying fire inside a theater. that's where people get hurt. it's part of a much larger

strategy. the strategy we talked about, of course, is to erode the public's trust in our key institutions. it's not just the fbi, but it's all of them across the board, centers for disease control, doj, dhs, the pentagon, you name it, the goal seems to be to turn everything on its head and cause massive distrust in the government so that the only people you can trust, of course, are the people fabricating stories which is what we saw happen today. so the -- the outcome of this is not just the erosion of a public agency that protects us every day, an agency that last year for example arrested over 20,000 violent criminals and child sex predators, dismantled 150 gangs, recovered billions in cyber fraud and gave it back to citizen victims. all that goes on every day in the fbi, but it's not just that.

it's also keeping us from having really serious discussions about fbi oversight. so while we're talking about the attacks today, we're not talking about serious questions of oversight. what about the upcoming expiration of the fisa law and the renewal of international national security wiretapping authorities? what about whether the fbi is or isn't purchasing commercial data about all of us? all of these very serious questions, whether or not the fbi should be talking on a regular basis to social media platforms to try and protect us. we're not having that discussion because the gop doesn't want us having that serious discussion. they simply want us to believe the nonsense they're peddling. >> well, chris wray gave us an opportunity to have that broader conversation, and i do want to play his defense of sort of the natural extension of where the republicans are going really is -- and i didn't necessarily buy

this at the time, but it really is the -- sort of implementing what bannon described as deconstructing the administrative state. the natural extension of delegitimizing trust in the fbi first with the right and then if they were to retake the white house, they would -- i mean, desantis has a plan on paper to relocate, dismantle, and totally restructure the fbi which would be the beginning of its end. chris wray had a chance to talk today, and i think it's important to articulate what happens if the fbi goes away and is defunded. let me play that for you, mary. >> can you briefly describe for us what the effect would be on our national security and on our domestic tranquility if the fbi were to be defunded or dismantled? >> well, certainly it would be disastrous for 38,000 hard-working career law enforcement professionals and their families. but more importantly, in many ways it would hurt our great

state and local law enforcement partners who depend on us every day to work with them on a whole slew of challenging threats. it would hurt the american people, neighborhoods and communities all across this country. the people we're protecting from cartels, violent criminals, gang members, predators, foreign and domestic terrorists, cyberattacks, i could go on and on. the people it would help would be those same violent gangs and cartels, foreign terrorists, chinese spies, hackers, and so forth. >> mary, by weakening, dismantling, smearing, destabilizing public opinion about the fbi, what christopher wray said there is the people we're helping are violent gangs, cartels, foreign terrorists, chinese spies, hackers, and so forth. it's a very direct line between what republicans are doing and our homeland security and our national security. i wonder if you think there will

be a more blunt conversation about the real-world consequences. they are -- republicans are playing with a loaded gun in attacking the fbi day in and day out. >> yeah. you know, and listening to some of the attacks, it really sounds a lot like exactly the way that extremists approach the government. anti-government extremists, right, trying to undermine faith in the government, trying to suggest that the government is against people, and that's oftentimes used to sort of accelerate chaos within our system to benefit the extremists. and now, of course, we have members of congress who are perpetuating that same sort of anti-government extremism that is exactly what extremists use to try to get to the point of chaos because in the point of chaos the extremists can have an upper hand. i think that's really what christopher wray was trying to say when he talked about it's the bad guys who win if you

dismantle and defund the fbi. and it goes beyond the fbi. the attacks on the department of justice writ large, the fbi, of course, is part of the department of justice. the attacks that they are politicizing their investigations and their prosecutions, and i think it's notable that, you know, even some republicans like representative buck did step in to actually thank director wray for the things that he's been doing because, you know -- and i -- i'll note that others not parts of these hearings today, people like former attorney general alberto gonzalez, former attorney general bill barr have also, you know, stepped up to defend some of the work of the department of justice. it's not as ted lieu said, not a two-tiered system. i think we have to be really realistic about what some on that committee seem to be calling for because it's completely antithetical to the position of many people, you

know, in congress historically, but also where does it lead? it leads to chaos, and it leads to a breakdown of the rule of law, breakdown of our institutions, and then, you know, then we lost our democratic system. so you know, be careful -- they need to really be careful about what they're pushing for their own political purposes. >> mary, i want to just follow up with you. i mean, we talked -- you've talked about the language of extremists. what are the extremists here when republican lawmakers are using the lexicon and conspiracy theories peddled by extremists with the optics of something official? >> they hear permission. they hear, look, these guys -- it's not unlike what we heard after the unite the right rally when the former president said there were fine people on both sides. that was permission for white supremacists, neo-nazis, accelerationists, conspiracy theorists, to continue to go out

in public and commit acts of political violence, intimidation, threats, and harassment that had been continuing ever since that rally in 2017. and when your elected officials, your leaders use that rhetoric, they espouse conspiracy theories, they turn everything into -- they use victim-hood to create victims of, they would say themselves and their politics, that is the same kind of victim-hood that perpetuates violence. if we look over the last several years, we don't have to go back to 2020, just look at the last year. think about the conspiracy theories and the notions of victims of teachers who are just simply trying to teach history and they're accused of making white children feel guilty. think about the attacks on our lgbtq community as being predators seeking to groom children for sexual abuse. think about the attacks on our

immigrant community. think about the attacks on election officials for supposedly rigging elections and committing fraud in elections, victimizing voters. this is all these notions of victim-hood that then give permission to extremists to actually engage in political violence. this is what led to january 6th. the notion that there was a rigged election, a fraudulent election, and that the election was stolen from the people who voted for trump is what gave people the permission to go out and use violence to attack the capitol that day. and that's the kind of victim-hood that hearings like part of what you saw today perpetuate. i entirely agree with frank. there are real things to question the fbi director about, important things that matter to our domestic -- our national security and our domestic security. and you know, there were some efforts to get at that today.

i wasn't able to listen to the entire many hours of the hearing, but that's what this should have been about. not -- not baseless attacks about the politicization of the fbi against conservatives. there's just no basis for it. >> let me show you, anthony, some of what christopher wray had to do in the vein of what frank and mary are talking about. there is some news on this instance, ray epps, trump supporter, at the capitol on january 6th, but he didn't do what tucker carlson and donald trump and others say he did which was to be there as an fbi agent. some sort of false flag operation. let me show you christopher wray's response to that conspiracy theory. >> i think tucker carlson and some of the members, colleagues said that ray epps was a secret government agency helping encourage this crime so as to make the president look bad. do you have any knowledge of ray

epps being a secret government agent? >> no. i will say this notion that somehow the violence at the capitol on january 6th was part of some operation orchestrated by fbi sources and agents is ludicrous and is a disservice to our brave, hard-working, dedicated men and women. >> anthony, you could roll that tape just about every day of the week because there is some conspiracy or lying about told about the fbi and january 6th by republicans every day of the week. it was good to hear that strong rebuke from director wray today. your thoughts? >> yeah. nicole, let me, if i could zoom out for a second and talk about who chris wray is. chris wray is a conservative republican. from 2003 to 2005, you and i were in washington at the time, chris wray was running the criminal division in george w. bush's justice department. after law school, he spent a year clerking for conservative

heavyweight jurist michael luding in the fourth circuit. let's not forget that the reason chris wray is in this seat as fbi director is because donald trump appointed him to be fbi director. so this entire notion that christopher wray is somehow biased against conservatives when he himself is a conservative is just -- it literally makes no sense. i think what we saw today not just with this epps clip, but we saw the opposite of legitimate congressional oversight. congressional oversight is based on facts. the facts tell you where to go with congressional oversight. what we saw today was simple political posturing designed to create viral sensations that get republican congressman on fox news into mobilize an increasingly narrow base of

supporters. the effect of this ultimately is looking forward to the electoral prospects of the republican party. i just don't see how they will be successful in 2024 or beyond because it's the same playbook, and they are doing nothing to appeal to independent and moderate voters or, quite frankly, people who still believe there is a place for facts in government discourse. >> well, it's interesting -- there's also a parallel in the military. they're attacking the leaders of the military. you've got one republican senator holding up military promotions, and they are making a bet to your point, anthony, that no one in the republican party cares anymore about law enforcement. i don't think it's the right bet, but a dangerous bet. we need you to stick around a whole lot longer. when we come back, we'll have more on everything that went down today. we'll also have a chance to talk to congressman dan goldman.

we'll ask him about his call for an investigation into whether his republican colleagues have been duped by their now-indictmented so-called star whistleblower in their crusade to find corruption on the part of the biden family. plus, the man who became a target of the right's conspiracies around january 6th, we've been talking about him, ray epps, he has filed his lawsuit against fox news. we'll tell you about it. and there's more news that should put to bed the lies circulating about him. talk about all that ahead. later in the show, how republican efforts to disenfranchise voters state by state by state are colliding head on with those other efforts to trample democracy. all those big lie myths and stories when we continue after a quick break. ♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ hi, i'm john and i'm from dallas, texas.

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speaking more generally, the rules governing the handling of classified information are there for a reason, and people need to be very mindful of those rules. and unfortunately, the fbi has as a steady part of its docket a number of investigations involving mishandling. and the reason those rules are there is because classified information, if it gets into the wrong hands, can put human sources in jeopardy, it can put other kinds of intelligence collection at jeopardy, it can jeopardize our partnerships with foreign liaison services which are the lifeblood of the intelligence communities in many ways. >> joining our coverage, congressman daniel goldman of

new york. he sits on the house oversight committee, is very familiar with the attacks and smears launched by republicans today, as well as the judiciary's weaponization of the federal government subcommittee. congressman, i imagine none of this surprised you from republicans today. but it was stark and jarring watching them malign donald trump's appointee, the lead of the fbi, as someone who has really seemed to want to keep his head down and keep the bureau out of just about every debate in washington, around any of these cases. your thoughts about his testimony in this hearing today? >> well, there was such a sharp distinction between what director wray was talking about in terms of the breadth and depth of the fbi's work. from counterintelligence to counterterrorism to criminal investigations to keeping fentanyl off the streets to keeping gangs off the streets, to keeping americans safe versus

what the republicans wanted to talk about which was really just two cases -- donald trump's case and hunter biden's case. and it is remarkable that the judiciary committee and house republicans more broadly are acting as taxpayer-funded defense attorneys for donald trump and that the attacks on the fbi, the effort to defund the police in the form of the fbi is all done in service to donald trump and in an effort to not only undermine the fbi and the credibility of the fbi with americans around the country, but that's done to protect donald trump and then to attack the bidens for purely political purposes. >> you have focused in today on -- i hate even calling him a star witness, but that's what he was. the republicans' star witness i their efforts to reignite i

guess the hunter biden investigations has been indicted by doj for being a chinese spy among other things. you write this, you and congressman raskin write this to congressman comer, quote, we are concerned that an official committee of the house of representatives has been manipulated by a con man who while a fugitive from justice attempted to fortify his defense by laundering unfounded and potentially false allegations through congress. it appears as if mr. luft sought whistle-blower status from you in an effort to defend himself from criminal prosecution while a funeral from justice. worse yet, this episode raises concerns that mr. luft may be manipulating your investigation not only for his own self-interest but perhaps in furtherance of the ccp's efforts to undermine u.s. security interests and the president of the united states. tell us what you -- this seems to go beyond politics and into a

real threat to the integrity feels like the wrong word to use when talking about house republicans. explain your concerns. >> chairman comer is pursuing attacks and bogus unfounded allegations against the biden family with such reckless abandon that he has now wrapped his arms around and doubled down on embracing a former agent of the chinese government, someone who made false statements to the fbi, someone who brokered weapons for oil deals between china and iran, and who has stated himself that he is using his outreach to the oversight committee essentially to provide a defense against his indictment. now his indictment dates back months, long before chairman comer even knew who he was. but there are real questions to be asked not just about the credibility of this whistleblower and all of the

whistleblowers that the republicans are relying on, but also whether or not the house republicans on the oversight committee have been manipulated and used by a foreign adversary to undermine the interests of the united states government. it's a very, very serious issue that goes far beyond this particular investigation and goes to the heart of what this oversight committee is doing based on a desperate, desperate attempt to undermine and attack president biden against whom, by the way, and i know you know this, there is not a shred of evidence to connect to any of these allegations which in and of themselves are unfounded. >> help us understand sort of the depths of comer's enchantment with this witness. here he is yesterday, yesterday caught -- this news has been

available to all of us now. here he is yesterday still defending his indicted, charged with arms trading and dealing and spying foreign agent witness. >> he's a credible witness because he work for cfec, just like hunter biden. i'm not saying luft's innocent or guilty i'm just saying that he worked for the same company that hunter biden worked for, and i want what the company did and what, if he has any knowledge of what role the bidens played. >> this is this i won't let go of my sinking ship kind of logic that is hallmark republicans i guess these days. but what does this mean for the committee's work? >> well, you don't, of course, have credibility because you're in a similar circumstance or work for a -- the same company as someone else. you have credibility because you tell the truth and because your information is corroborated and

vetted. in this case, we know that he has not told the truth to the fbi, and let me tell you something, nicole, from prosecuting cases in federal court for ten years, the prosecutors in the southern district of new york where i worked and where this case comes from do not charge false statements lightly. we -- when i was there, was lied to numerous occasions by defendants that we didn't charge false statements against. and that's because it's a high bar to charge them. the credibility of this witness is not whether or not he was in -- similarly situated to hunter biden which i don't believe he was, but it's whether or not he tells the truth. and what we know is that he has not told the truth to the fbi. he's a fugitive, he's literally on the run. he jumped his bail and has not appeared for his extradition proceedings in cypress, i believe. he's on the lam trying to use the oversight committee to help

him defend against very, very serious charges. and we have no idea what he's telling the oversight committee because chairman comer has not turned over any of the information that he's obtained from this potential chinese spy to the democrats on the committee. >> well, and i remember that was, i believe, your first request of your republican counterparts on the committee that they turn over notes from interviews with whistleblowers many months ago. i know this letter asks for the notes and the transcripts of any meetings with whether luft. i assume that is not something that the republicans have started doing? are you hopeful that they will, or are you holding your breath that you'll get their transcripts or notes from him? >> no, we're not. and i think it's important to emphasize why we are so concerned about the whistleblower status that the republicans are freely giving to anyone who comes forward with allegations against the bidens. they are using whistleblower status as a rationale for not

giving the democrats information about these whistleblowers. that is not actually how house rules work, but that is the rationale they're using. so they will cloak this criminal in the protections of a whistleblower so that they don't have to share their information with the democrats on the committee. and we cannot investigate it, look into it, and assess the credibility of what he's saying. all we have is what chairman comer is saying, and we know that chairman comer is a master of disinformation. >> yes, who's doubled down in the last 24 hours on his star witness. thank you very much for spending time with us on this busy day of news. we are grateful. coming up for us, the man at the center of right-wing conspiracies about january 6th says that he is facing charges for his role in the attack. but there is little chance that could quiet the lies about his role as a supposed covert agent.

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show, they quickly spread to online communities of trump supporters and to the political world as republican members of congress tried to link epps to a fictitious conspiracy theory that he was involved in planning the january 6th attack. in may the lawsuit says the justice department notified epps that it was planning to file criminal charges against him related to his role in the capitol attack. details about the charges remain unknown, but the fact that they are being filed undermines the notion that epps was being protected because of his role as a supposed covert agent, the suit says. we're back with our panel. frank, this is one of tucker carlson's most oft repeated conspiracy theories. we've covered mr. epps a little bit. we played director wray's efforts to knock down the slides, the conspiracy theory that won't die, it may cost fox news some more money. >> yeah, this is filling the gap that so many people feel

frustrated over. the gap being can we charge somebody -- i get all the time -- why can't we arrest people who are spouting falsehoods. because it's probably not a crime if they're spouting falsehoods and propaganda and conspiracy theories. this civil resolution fills that gap, and i like it. i like the painfulness of it in terms of hitting the purse, hitting the budget, and making someone who spouts this toxic to their organization. it's why we see people fired, terminated, ratings go down, company lawyers saying we can't have this person around anymore because they're costing us too much money. so when you hit the bottom line, when you affect share price, when the board of directors gets upset with you for propaganda, i like it. so this is the way to go. and there will be a discovery process, right? so lawyers will get to say, hey, we want to see everything fox

was talking about with regard to ray epps. undoubtedly we'll probably see internal emails that say we probably shouldn't lie about this guy, hey, anybody got any evidence? we might see a fox fact checker saying i got nothing this guy epps being employed by the fbi, right, we can't say this. i like all of it, it fills the gap, and it's much needed. >> i mean, anthony, i guess the tussle is that democracy can't sue for defamation, just individuals. but i guess i come down with frankly that it is valuable to see what goes on inside these organizations that seem to knowingly spread disinformation. >> that's exactly right. you never know -- you don't know what you don't know when these type of lawsuits come about. what's important here, nicole, is that accountability still matters, facts still matter, it shouldn't come -- have to come to a lawsuit. but it is good to see that

accountability appears to be afoot here. i do want to double down on something that mary said in the last segment, and that is is the real-world consequences of these type of lies, of these -- this type of political rhetoric. this is not just isolated to this type of tucker carlson incident, i remember very well ruby freeman and shay moss and in -- in fulton county, georgia, who had to leave their homes and flee for their lives because of donald trump and his his supporters spreading lies and falsehoods. i also remember -- i was at the justice department at the time, in august of last year, where a trump supporter stormed -- tried to storm an fbi field office in ohio. this is a guy who was dressed, according to the indictment, dressed in body armor and had an ar-15. after a short standoff, he was

killed by law enforcement in six hours or so. but he was motivated, it appears, based on a lot of the falsehoods and the rhetoric that we still see too prevalent today. >> mary, i'll give you the last word on this. it feels unsustainable. it feels like we're in this position again of plying whack-a-mole. the climate doesn't change. you know, but for i think largely viewed as long shots to prevail in defamation lawsuits still. it seems that there are still more tools available to the purveyors of this information than those fighting it. >> it does -- definitely seems like for all that we try to use the law to restore some accountability that there are certainly gaps. and some of those gaps are actually because of our constitution and the way it protects first amendment rights, freedom of speech and expression. and someday i'd like to have a

much longer discussion about that because i think sometimes we forget that even though that's a very, very valued and very important right and a right that we have in this country that doesn't exist in all other countries, it is not limitless. it does not protect violence, incitement to violence, incitement to imminent lawless activity. i think in some ways our law gives too much leeway before determining what crosses that line into incitement to violence. and we've been talking today a lot about the lies and other types of misinformation that stoke violence. we've been talking about conspiracy theories and victim-hood. we know that it results in real violence and destruction of people's lives. we've seen it over and over. we also know, for example, that threats against doj prosecutors are now also again on the uptick recently. and -- and yet it continues, right, and it continues in many

ways because right now the law's not perceived -- the law is perceived to protect a lot of that disinformation that stokes that violence. and i think it's time for us to reckon with what are the limits of first amendment rights. we want robust first amendment rights, but real people's lives are endangered. here, mr. epps and his wife, while i, you know, wish they had not gone on january 6th and participated in that attack on the capitol or not they, mr. epps, i don't believe his wife went, they're now the victims. they're the victims of more lies, and that's why they're bringing this case. i think these are things we have to contend with because those who think they can get away with pushing it as far as they have continue to push it. >> that's right. i mean, tonight the lies that were uttered today will be amplified, not the responses, i am sure, from christopher wray. i will raise you that challenge, we will have that conversation,

the four of us will have it this summer, at a later date. frank, mary, and anthony, thank you so much for starting us off today. up next for us, president joe biden promising ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy that the u.s. isn't going anywhere. telling him you are stuck with us. we'll bring you the latest next. .

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as long as it takes. [ cheers ] prudent spirit wrongly believes that he can out-- putin wrongly believes that he can outlast ukraine. he can't believe it's their land, their country, and their future. and even after all this time, putin still doubts our staying power. he's still making a bad bet. >> that was president joe biden at the nato summit in lithuania today emphasizing the global alliances, stalwart support for ukraine. summit ended without any definitive timeline, though, for ukraine's membership in nato. and while ukrainian president zelenskyy had previously criticized the alliance for failing to provide that timeline or concrete path for his country's entry into nato, today zelenskyy's tone was more upbeat following meetings with the u.s. and others, thanking nato for its ongoing support and the support from 31 member nations. let's bring in former sigh director msnbc senior national security analyst john brennan.

john, there's no between the lines. i mean, president biden making it clear, he said you're stuck with us. there's clearly some personal rapport, as well. and i believe the president was as specific as telling zelenskyy just wait a few months. what is your sense on where ukraine stands in terms of its desire to be part of nato and now? >> well, i think within nato there's more and more an appreciation for the eventuality i think of ukraine's ascension into nato. but it is going to take time. and i do think that president zelenskyy now understands that there's going to be a process, and i think he was heartened by the nato secretary general's three-point plan basically to allow ukraine to become part of nato. it's going to take some time. but i think what zelenskyy wants now is a real sense that there is resolute nato support for the ukrainian effort against russian aggression. and i think that president biden

made it very, very clear that the biden administration is committed to that. and i think as the united states goes, the rest of nato will go on this issue which i think the -- our european allies, partners, are really quite glad that president biden has adopted such a strong and forceful position on >> i mean, we focus a lot on russia's setbacks on the battlefield, but this is the nightmare scenario diplomatically for russia, for ukraine to join nato. it couldn't be going worse for them on the diplomatic front. >> well, this just reflects the strategic miscalculation on putin's part. he supposedly went into ukraine in order to prevent the eastern march of nato into areas such as ukraine. but clearly, the aggression has brought nato partners together. it has increased and enhanced nato's capabilities, as well as the deployment of u.s. troops, u.s. weapon systems. so i think he's miscalculated

that. only on the tactical battlefield how poorly his troops would do and how well the ukrainians would do, but terms on the strategic in terms of setting back some of the ambitions he had. >> we have to sneak in a break, but i do want to ask you about our top story today, fbi director christopher wray on capitol hill facing a firestorm of disinformation from the right. if you can stick with us through a break, we'll be back with more of director john brennan on the other side. irector john brennan other side and harold. wayfair's got just what you need... performance fabrics, stains don't stand a chance. no chance! -woo! dog friendly and wallet friendly... pug-proved. get nice things with nice prices at wayfair. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪

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we're back with john brennan, former director of the cia among other government posts. you spent your career protecting u.s. national security. and chris wray chose his words carefully. there was one moment i wanted to ask you about. he was asked by a democrat on the committee what would happen if the national extension of what republicans are doing to totally decapitate or incapacitate or dismantle the fbi or defund it, what would happen? and he said it would hurt the american people, neighborhoods and communities all across the country. the people queer protecting from cartels, gang me, pretty, to foreign and domestic terrorists, cyber attacks. i could go on and on, and the people that it would help would be the same violent gangs, cartels, foreign terrorists, chinese spies, and hackers and so forth. we have so many dumb news cycles because of the sand in the gears that republicans seem intent on throwing. but at its core, taking classified documents, attacking the fbi, manufacturing claims of

politicization, when frankly the opposite appears quite true seems to endanger us from these kinds of groups, terrorists, foreign and domestic, cartels and gangs. do you think there is any chance that we'll wake up and have a real conversation about the real threat of today's current republican party? >> i certainly would like to think so, nicolle. i watched most of the hearing today with chris wray. he is a very, very accomplished and competent public servant. we're very, very fortunate to have him at the helm of the fbi during a period of very stormy partisan waters he has to navigate right now. he demonstrated professional patience as well as respect for the congressional oversight process despite the mischaracterizations and all of the broadsides that he was hit with. and the misrepresentations which i think most concerns him, the fbi does a tremendous job every

day to keep this country safe and security and to ensure that law and order is going to be maintained. and that's why when republicans are engaged in such partisan mudslinging, which is what it is and misrepresenting the truth, again, i'm so glad that somebody as impressive as chris wray, who i think has demonstrated his determination to disregard all of these personal slights that he has to suffer through, to make sure that the fbi continues to do its work. >> john brennan, i'm glad we had a chance to ask you about today. thank you for spending some time with us. up next for us, how maga republican lies about nonexistent voter fraud are doing damage right now this hour, today to our democracy. much more news straight ahead. don't go anywhere today. your car insurance...y muts so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu.

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purportedly voted in the election? >> yes. >> and you asked him for evidence of that? >> i did. >> and did he ever -- did you receive from him that evidence either during the call, after the call, or to this day? >> never. >> hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 now in the east. they are two very clearly separate and distinct calamities, with two separate and distinct sets of circumstances and grave consequences. and yet there is one glaring similarity between the ongoing assault on voting rights in america and the ongoing global climate crisis, and that is this. the fact that it is wholly inadequate, irresponsible even to consider each individual development or crisis as a single independent event to be covered as a separate thing. like extreme temperatures and sea level rise, the disparate state by state by state republican efforts to

disenfranchise voters and the grave damage they cause to our democracy sharing a common origin. you all know what it is, the big lie, the evidence-free suggest that voter fraud is rampant in the united states of america. so when you see headlines like this one from this week, quote, house republicans unveil most restrictive elections bill in decades, understand that it is part of a whole, the latest available data from the brennan center for justice reveals this. at least 322 bills restricting the right to vote were introduced in 45 of our 50 states. that's in 2023 alone. and the number of restrictive laws actually enacted so far this year surpasses any year over the last decade with a single exception, and it will not surprise you. 2021, the first full year after a certain disgraced ex-president with a very fragile ego refused to accept the results of his defeat, a defeat that happened in a free, fair and overwhelmingly secure election,

one described by his own election security official as, quote, the most secure in american history. and therein lies the reason for frustration, despair even. just like those who would deny a human connection between climate change-related events, donald trump and the scores of republicans who enable him and who are still animated and excited about him and his candidacy have been allowed to repeat over and over again the lies with impunity to this day. today, 917 days after the january 6th attack, the american people are still waiting to see if justice will be served to those responsible. those maga republicans who are instructed in discourse and policy making with lies about nonexistent voter fraud in america. it's where we start the hour with some of our most favorite experts and friends. congresswoman jasmine crockett, democrat of texas is here with us. when she was a state legislator, we got to know her because she and her colleagues fled the state of texas to halt the

passage of a restrictive voting law there. also joining us jacqueline benson. she has been on the front lines of protecting our democracy and has received the citizens medal from president joe biden for her role in defending against efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election in her state. also joining us, the founder of democracy docket marc elias. he led the legal effort to protect voting flights the wake of the 2020 election. mark, you inspired this segment, and you inspired us to start with it today. we do what i described there, right. we cover the whac-a-mole that is the legal piece of this, your efforts to sue voter restrictions and voter suppression laws. but it is inadequate on our part, right, to cover it as piecemeal. so we wanted to have a more holistic conversation. why don't you start us off. >> yeah, i think that you've gotten it exactly right, which is that it is too easy to look at what republicans are doing in georgia and say, well, that's republicans in georgia, or

republicans in texas and say that's what they're doing in texas. there is an overall strategy. it involves a number of well-funded right-wing organizations. it is -- involves the leadership of republicans at the congressional level, at the rnc, at the state level, in state legislatures. and it is all aimed at one thing. it is aimed at making it harder to vote and easier to cheat. because that is the only way republicans believe they can win the election in 2024, when they know and you know and i know that whoever their candidate for president is, joe biden will receive millions of more votes. and so they have to figure out how to rig the rules to undermine fair election administration, because that is their only chance. and so i'm thrilled to be here today with such a great panel and the work you're doing in shining a spotlight is so important. >> well, mark, what is the

answer? i mean, what is the response, short of you winning all of your legal challenges and voters realizing that it's the democracy, stupid? >> so i think the solution is first of all to acknowledge the problem and to recognize that it is not enough to denounce election deniers, we also need to denounce vote suppressers. that's the first piece of it. the second is we need to empower people like jocelyn benson, who are doing the hard work of protecting democracy. we need to give them the tools, and we need to give them the platform to have their be freer and fairer elections. because when michigan has freer and fairer elections, it puts the pressure and spotlight on greg abbott and the travesty of what he and his folk are doing in texas. so we need to not break this down state by state. we need to lift up our heros. we need to call out the villains. >> all right, secretary of state

jocelyn benson, your name has been invoked. and again, your efforts as well. we've covered on a day-to-day basis, but the broader context seems to be that in michigan, where the voters of michigan, which include a whole lot of independents and republicans in this coalition as well voted in candidates. they were all democrats. i think they were mostly women, who were pro-democracy candidates. tell me how that's working out. >> well, it really underscores where the voters are at, which is across the aisle, voters want leaders who will stand up for their voices and their votes. and to just take a step back, i think it's really important to note, as marc notes, we are up against a multifaceted, multi-year national effort to undermine democracy in many ways, and it requires a multifaceted, multi-year national response. and that's what we have been trying to help lead in michigan with our colleagues in other states like georgia and wisconsin and pennsylvania and nevada and arizona. that's how we get through this moment. and with voters joining us.

so in michigan, we're passing pro-democracy policies to expand access to the democracy. we're recruiting more poll workers, and we're creating a task force of truth tellers all around the state, various sectors to speak to voters about the truth of democracy, the truth of our elections, and what we can all do to be a part of defending democracy together. >> it sounds too easy. and i know it hasn't come with great threat and risk to you, jocelyn, and your family. i mean, can you just speak to the threat environment that anyone faces who it sounds -- it sounds like it shouldn't be controversial, right? but protecting those things comes with a risk these days. >> yeah. i think that's real and it's exhausting, and we're exhausted and we have to find a way to work through that through being emboldened to do the work we've been assigned to do in this moment, all of us defending democracy. that's what history requires us

to do in this moment, all of us, recognizing that protecting our ability to elect our leaders and hold them accountable nationwide is the most fundamental issue of our time. it enables us to fight for better climate policies, better educational policies, better economic policies and everything in between. so by recognizing that and finding purpose in that, it helps us overcome the weariness that we are feeling in this moment. and as you know, nicolle, and as others know, i think i personally find great strength in recognizing that we are part of a historic effort that threaded through the history of our country to defend the basic principles that we were founded on, this idea that people have the power to determine our laws, to determine justice, to determine equality. and we have to feel emboldened with a purpose withstanding with who we are as americans in this moment and come together to further that promise of democracy and connect to those who stood on the foot of the

edmund pettus bridge in selma in 1965, who fought in the war of 1865. we find great strength of purpose in that. it takes us through those challenging moments and the threats that we endure. >> congresswoman, we got to know you when you were engaged in a fight very much like what jocelyn is describing. when you and your colleagues left your state, went to washington. and i remember talking to you before. i think you were about to meet with senator manchin about pushing federal voting rights legislation. that battle was not successful. but i wonder how you feel the war to expand access to the right to vote is going in texas and in the whole country. >> yeah, first of all, it's great to see you. second of all, i am so excited to see these true american heroes being on this panel. marc elias, i don't even think

he is sleeping at this point because he is fighting wars and battles in so many different states. and i think it is important, just as you kind of laid it out for the viewers as you opened up, talking about the fact that we can't look at this as if it's a monolith. we can't look at this as if it's only happening in one place. but we have to understand that it is multifaceted, and it is working through each of our state houses. it's one of the reasons -- you know, you didn't bring up abortion access, but that can fall in the same category, right? the fights that we are waging right now for simple freedoms, freedoms that we thought had been fought and bled for and won years ago. but unfortunately, that's not where we are. right now we're living in a time where facts are failing the republicans. and so lies are being lauded. i understand that you had dan goldman on a little bit earlier. i serve on the oversight committee with dan. and i can tell you right now we're pushing back. our job is to push back and make sure we're putting the facts out there.

we had a hearing on the bill that you talked about, and it was a joint hearing. it was between oversight and the house administration hearing. and they wanted to talk to d.c. about their voting regimen and their practices. and in that particular hearing, i ended up going viral because i wanted to lay out some facts. one of the things that the republicans are allergic to right now is facts, and i wanted to point out if we were going to talk about who is been cheating, i had a few receipt, and those receipts concluded if there is cheating that is going on, there is cheating that happens, but it's never been widespread, but it's been a lot of republicans that have been cheating, and have i the examples. right now when marc was talking about texas, christian menifee, as far as i'm concerned, that is the only attorney general that i acknowledge in the state of texas. he is the county attorney in harris county that is pushing back because when we were talking, we were talking about voter suppression. the state of texas is now moving on to voter subversion, and that is the next great threat that we are facing is saying you know

what? if they're going to outvote us like that red dribble that we had, instead of us having that red wave, maybe what we need to do is throw out their votes. and so that's the next fight that we're having to wage right now. you know, they are really threatening democracy not just here, but abroad. and that's what i've been trying to stress to people is that yes, we've got to fight for democracy here, but we have to understand that here in america we are supposed to be the example for the entire world. we have very junior and young democracies that are really trying to get off of the grounds and now they're struggling because of what they saw on january 6th. we saw what happened in brazil. we know why putin decided that he wanted to invade ukraine. this has creator implications than just for our democracy here, but it has the implications of what can potentially happen for democracies in the entire world. >> congresswoman, the democracy voter was a little bit of a surprise, i think certainly to

republicans, but maybe even to democrats, who thought that this broader umbrella of freedoms taken away by republicans might have waned a little bit by election day. the notion that women were going to be over the overturning of roe in the six weeks between the leak of the decision and the election never really seemed applause to believe me. but election day proved that it wasn't. the taking away of freedoms and the diminishing and weakening and damaging of our democracy did in fact create a democracy voter. and i wonder how that manifests itself in your conversations with constituents. what are you hearing? >> no, so recently, i went on social media just to ask, who all is planning to vote? and if you are planning to vote or not, tell me why. and it was so interesting because people were saying oh, absolutely. i'm going to vote until the day i die. and there were people that were saying things like you know what? i'll never miss another election because i really truly understand how serious it is.

and there are people that were also accepting of election results and say you know what? even if we don't necessarily get there, i've got to show up because i can't complain if i don't make sure that my voice is heard. right now because of the amazing work that is happening, you know, unfortunately the supreme court doesn't get the majority of their decisions right nowadays, but at least one thing they did right which they affirmed, section 2 of the voting rights act. that means that african americans in the states of louisiana as well as alabama will have an opportunity to elect somebody to represent them. and hopefully in the state of texas, god knows that we are due for more than just one seat when it comes to minority opportunity seats considering we're the minority opportunity state. it is time for us to have a real representative government. and that's where redistricting really matters. when you and i first met each other, we were talking about voting rights. but i was trying to make sure it was clear that you can't

disassociate the two. you've got to understand that it's not just the voting, but it's also what do these lines look like, and who actually has access to their government? when we're seeing the pushback that we see in the state of ohio where they say you know what? we're afraid that they are going to enshrine the access to abortion care, and they've gone out and done these petitions, we want to make sure that we change the rules to the game in august. this is a legislature that just said you know what? get rid of august elections because the voter turnout is too low. wait a minute we want to raise the stakes. instead of it being 50% to get a ballot measure passed, we want to raise it to 60% so hopefully when this ballot measure makes the ballot that is coming up because those people have worked hard, hopefully it won't pass because we're going to change the bar. that is the name of the game for the republican party. if it doesn't suit their agenda, then forget democracy. forget all the principles upon which this country was built on. let's go ahead and change the rules of the game and cheat to get to where we want to get, and

that usually does not represent the will of the people, which is what democracy is supposed to do. >> i mean, marc, the what the congresswoman is outlining is a really cynical bet. i remember rush limbaugh used to talk about low information voters. the republicans are betting that their base will not go and understand the facts of what jasmine just articulated, where they can't win in a democratic process, they are rigging the process. they're rigging the vote. they're changing the standard. they're changing the threshold. they're removing deadlines and opportunities for people to weigh in. they're removing drop boxes, which are the most secure kinds of votes that happen in any election, the most rigorous signature requirements are on a ballot that has to get dropped through a box. go figure. give us the sort of lay of the land if you will of the legal picture across the country right now. >> yeah so, the first thing is i've got good news for the congresswoman. my firm, we sued alabama, we

went to the supreme court. we won. we sued louisiana. we won at the trial court and we're going to get new lines. we also sued georgia and look for a new section 2 district to be created there. and best of news for you, we've sued texas. and we're pursuing section 2 claims there. because one of the ways that republicans rig the rules is they rig the lines. and we need to recognize as democrats that if you rig the lines, you might as well just call off the elections. so we need to be fighting redistricting. we work closely with the national democratic coalition committee on those issues day in and day out, and those are important. to your point, they are emblematic of a larger culture within the republican party, a culture in which they recognize that they cannot win a majority of the electorate, but they want to exercise majority power. so the only way they can exercise majority power with a minority of the vote is by changing the rules to exclude who can vote and whose ballot

gets counted. so we need to keep in mind that the end gym of the republicans here is to shape who can vote and how ballots are counted. the first we refer to as voter suppression. the second we refer to as election subversion. they are two sides of the same coin. and sometimes i feel like we get so tied up on one that we lose sight of the other. but both are vitally important. we need to be protecting the process from registration to certification. >> all right. we will not lose focus. we will not parse this out. we will rely on all three of you in the coming months to keep this front and center. congresswoman jasmine crockett, jocelyn benson and marc elias, thank you so much for starting us off with this conversation today. you all inspire me. when we come back, an angry, unhinged response by the twice impeached, twice indicted disgraced ex-president after the department of justice decided to reverse course and not to shield him in the e. jean carroll case. it might even cute more

defamation on the ex-president's part. we will have that conversation with our legal experts after a very quick break. plus in another example of not being able to read the room, republicans are ramping up their assault on reproductive rights, despite very clear evidence that americans of all stripes are dead set against those efforts. and later in the program, how the gop is hijacking what used to be very normal bipartisan process, fund the military with culture wars. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. after a quick. don't go anywhere.

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turning back to a story that broke exactly 24 hours ago, that reversal from doj not to defend donald trump, it is opening trump up to even more legal vulnerability when it comes to his ongoing statements about e. jean carroll. doj announced it will no longer -- because it no longer believes that trump was acting within the scope of his presidential duties in 2019 when he allegedly defamed e. jean carroll while denying her rape accusation. this move gives carroll a boost in her defamation case that has so far been stalled in appeals. carroll won a separate lawsuit in may which found trump liable for sexually abusing her and defaming her in comments he made after he was no longer president. as proof that the ex-president still has not learned any of his lessons to keep his mouth closed among them, this morning he went on social media and rampaged against doj's ruling. he attacked e. jean carroll saying she made up this, quote, ridiculous story for her book.

his continued attacks against her are now very relevant as our friend and former u.s. attorney joyce vance points out on twitter. since the first verdict against trump didn't make him stop defaming her, her lawyer can ask the next jury to award damages in an amount they believe will be sufficient to make him stop. that number could go pretty high. trump has denied any wrongdoing in the case. joining our conversation is professional of law at the university of utah, first amendment scholar renel anderson jones. also joining us former u.s. attorney harry litman. renel, you were wonderful to join us by phone yesterday. i want to follow up on something that i asked you about. this jury found after listening to trump and in his own words that he was liable for sexual abuse and defamation. and now that he is no longer shielded by doj, i wonder how you evaluate or sort of analyze

his exposure i think what lawyers were calling e. jean carroll 1, this first lawsuit about comments he made while president. >> yes. it's understandable that trump would have gone on the rampage this morning because the decision by the doj yesterday was really pivotal in this case. really key. if it had been found that trump was acting in the scope of his employment, it really would have been a strikeout for e. jean carroll. the government would have been substituted as the litigant here, and you can't sue the federal government for defamation. so it all would have been over. conversely, if the judge, as seems likely, accepts the position of the doj, carroll essentially begins this next trial on third base. that's because there is a doctrine called issue preclusion, which basically says that once we've litigated things

between these two parties in court, you can't come back and ask to start all over again if those issues are identical and yet raised in a subsequent trial. trump had a full and fair opportunity to litigate, for example, the question of whether what he said was true and the question of whether it was harmful to carroll's reputation, and he resoundingly lost on those in the trial that happened in may. so that's all cooked and in the books and done. and all that really remains now is for carroll and her lawyers to talk about damages. and for all the reasons that we just discussed, there is good reason to believe that they may be staggering. this 2019 episode that is the center of this case is focused on the real hit that carroll took to her reputation when he first spoke out against her, and coupled with it are statements that he made right after the case was litigated and at cnn at the town hall, which suggests

that he's belligerent and recalcitrant in repeating these libelous statements, all of which may lead to really, really high sums here. there is every reason to believe that a number higher than maybe $10 million might be at stake here. and carroll's lawyers are going to argue, as you suggested, that that's what it takes to deter the ongoing spreading of the lie. >> harry, i want to read you what doj said about this yesterday in their letter. quote, after balancing and weighing the evidence from trump's deposition, the jury verdict in carroll 2 and the new allegations in the amended complaint, the department has determined there is no longer a sufficient basis to conclude that the former president was motivated by more than an insignificant desire to serve the united states government. the nonlawyer in me wonders what possible government service there ever could have been in

the first decision. as glenn kirschner said yesterday, that original decision broke his heart. he is happy to see them amend it. i want to ask you how powerful the jury findings are, and how much you think that weighed on doj's reversal. >> pretty powerful. and look, you're right. it was always an iffy decision, and part of what was going on was merrick garland when he came in, his resolve to try to not look political, not shift in the wind. and a coule things about this now 4-year-old lawsuit. first it went through the courts. while the courts gave guidance saying subjective intent really matters here. when you see him and more importantly after the town hall has ronell has been talking about saying she is a whack job, it does seem like personal grievance. they also did point to the

saying it seems more likely that it's a personal grievance. as ronnell says, the case now goes forward. i think it was already set up for that because it was ultimately in the decision of judge caplan, who is overseeing this with a stern hand. it's going go in january of 2024. he seems adamant about keeping it that way. he was really tough in the previous trial. and just on the damages point, there is a real possibility of punitive damages because trump has been recalcitrant. so he is all of the sudden quite exposed, and this case in particular we saw it play out before, but this would be even the more vivid example of the defamation. and it's not pretty for trump for sure. >> you know, ronnell, as someone who covered the entirety of the mueller probe, i remember trump's lawyers saying to me privately, and i think they went on tv and said it publicly that

they would never let trump talk to mueller, because he believes he is his own best advocate and defendant, but in actuality, he is not. his lawyers know he can't control what he says. how it is possible that even after losing, his lawyers can't get him to stop? and how do you -- you alluded to this, that the damages could be exorbitant, because it seems at this point there is no braking system for him to stop defaming e. jean carroll. >> this case is a really interesting conundrum for the lawyers on both sides of the case. on the one hand, presumably folks who represent someone in a defamation trial that is lost advise their client strongly to stop repeating that defamation, to stave off the additional damages that they might face. on the other hand, we see e. jean carroll's lawyers having to make some determinations about what kinds of remedies to try to seek in this very politically

fraught and incredibly complicated set of lawsuits. punitive damages are something that we know they are going to go after. and presumably, they are going to lean in significantly to the fact that there is abundant evidence that he shows no signs of stopping, and try to get that punitive number high enough that it will sting, and that it will stave off that kind of repeat of the lie in the future. there is also some chance that they might ultimately seek an order going forward from the court. right now all of the things that they're seeking are backward damages. you harmed me and you owe me for it. they could ultimately seek an injunction, and order that says the court orders you, trump, not to speak of this. but that's fraught with a series of first amendment concerns, and i doubt that they wish to do so. so what we'll see here is probably this trial and the damages in this trial really doing a lot of the heavy lift. >> it's just fascinating.

ronnell anderson jones, harry litman, thank you very much for spending some time on it with us. we're grateful to you. ahead, republicans in another state pass yet another strict and unpopular abortion ban, all while a significant majority of americans say they are opposed to such attacks on access to reproductive health care. we'll bring you that news after a quick break. don't go anywhere.

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people health care? where are they then? i'm saying if this is about the church and this is about god, you are the same people that will slap them loves of bread out of jesus' hand, slap the fish out of jesus' hand. this is absolutely an offense to women. this is an offense to everybody, because you do not have any idea what it's like to be in a situation where you have been told you're pregnant and it is not good news. and it is offensive that you're going to go celebrate the oppression of women. this state is ridiculous. >> that was a resident of des moines, iowa. she was giving an impassioned bit of testimony there against iowa's six-week abortion ban shortly before it passed the legislature yesterday. governor kim reynolds is expected to sign it into law on friday. in case you thought this might be anything other than playing partisan politics with the lives of iowa women, reynolds has announced she will be signing the bill at the family leadership summit, the event

that also features a gop presidential candidate forum moderated by ex-fox news host tucker carlson. reynolds had called a special session of the legislature in order to pass this bill. despite a nearly identical bill being blocked by her state supreme court. the law is highly unpopular in iowa. 61% of iowans, including 70% of iowa women believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases. and those are views that align very closely with the growing support for abortion rights all across the country. after the u.s. supreme court stripped away the constitutional right to an abortion. a new ap poll finding that 73% of all americans oppose abortion bans. joining us is the president of naral. minnie, we've been talking about democracy over the course of the last hour and a half. an congressman jasmine crockett very smartly puts this right at the center of concerns about our

democracy being stripped away from us, concerns that the majority, the will of the majority being ignored and denied by an extreme minority. this feels like another example of that. >> it's a perfect example of that. the congresswoman is completely right. we've talked about on this show the need for voting rights reform, gerrymander reform, redistricting reform, court reform, because we know that reproductive rights justice are so intertwined with our democratic freedoms and the erosion of our democracy. and we also know in the wake of jobs, more americans than ever are highly attuned to the fact that our erosion of our democracy, our democratic norms is undergirding all these attacks and all these losses. so what governor kim reynolds has done in this state completely disregarded the rule of the people. but they've also got a state supreme court that is at this point stacked against the people of iowa.

although there are going to be legal challenges, i believe as soon as today by our friends at the aclu and planned parenthood, the outcome is grim because of the way that the court has been stacked. so it's so important to look at the whole system when we're fighting these fights for reproductive freedom. i will say the counterpoint is places like ohio, where we've recently seen when you go straight to the people, another ballot initiative is going to go to the ballot where they've exceeded the goal of signatures to get that language on the ballot. and there is another fight for changing the rules in ohio to block that. so when we get to go to the people, we win. i think we're going see iowans fight back at the ballot box. >> minnie, it's such an important point. and you're not just talking about going to the people in california and new york. you're talking about going to the voters of kansas, going to the voters of ohio, going to the voters in deep south, red, red, red states. what does it say that you've got a 70-30 issue?

frankly, you've got a 70-30 split on the supreme court as well as on and it's still such a frantic fight to protect women's health care, and women's access to health care. >> it tells you that extremist republicans like kim reynolds and her entire party, they're at manhattan to ban abortion. they don't care about public opinion. they're going to go after every fundamental freedom. abortion is the tip of the spear. they don't care that they're losing electorally because they are so extremist in their views about abortion and abortion access. that's why we continue to see fighting for a national abortion ban of the gop, despite the fact that it's unpopular. you're seeing house republicans push these things. you're seeing senate republicans, tommy tuberville taking to the fight to the ndaa, despite popularity, because you just need to remember, they believe this stuff, okay. they believe their position.

and they're going to fight to the end. and we've got to fight back. >> minnie, if you look at the results of the midterm elections, they were far -- they were undetectable, right? even the smartest pundits -- i remember saying i don't know what's going to happen, because we've never been here before, where something that people have had for 50 years is taken away. you look at the next election, it's going to happen in a more dire circumstance politically for republicans. they are running on taking away something from everyone from coast-to-coast, including the bluest of blue states in the future and forever. i mean, what sort of political conversation are you starting to have with candidates and voters? >> we -- it's a great question. with candidates specifically, we're talking about how important it is to understand how popular abortion access now. so many of our candidates are used to being in a framework of abortion access is a tough conversation to have, right. they were nervous about it.

but now we're seeing the numbers. we're seeing the polling. we're seeing the ballot initiatives. we're seeing the voters turn out. so we want to make sure that we are confident in their position, and they are pushing it as far as they can in their electoral rhetoric. and voters are ready to support them when they do that. >> it's so important, and it's something you and i will continue to talk about. 93% of americans oppose the bans that eliminate exceptions for life of mother. 7% of all oppose for exceptions for rape and incest. it really does not divide the american people. it just animates the american right. minnie, thank you so much for jumping on and having this conversation with us today. we're so grateful. ahead for us, how house republicans, the extreme ones, are playing politics with the u.s. military, trying to cram all manner of culture war issues into a bill that is simply supposed to fund the pentagon. that story is next.

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this is american infrastructure, a prime target for cyberattacks. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. ♪ in their latest power grab, republicans are now threatening this week's vote on what is traditionally bipartisan legislation to fund the u.s. military. from "the washington post" reporting on this, quote, while it is widely considered one of the few must-pass pieces of legislation congress takes up each year, some members and their staffers have warned that inserting contentious issues like abortion into the bill could derail the process entirely, complicating u.s. defense strategy and funding for

coming year. house speaker kevin mccarthy on tuesday seemed to concede that the rancor surrounding some amendments could lead to delays. we're going to get it passed, he said, adding it doesn't have to be on a specific time. let's bring in "washington post" senior political reporter aaron blake. aaron, the republicans are under every rock, right? every part of the government that you turn over has these sort of microaggressions between mccarthy and some of the extreme members. in this case, it seems to include some members of his own leadership, and this really extreme agenda. take us inside this specific fight. >> so i think this is really in some ways an extension of what we saw both during the speakership fight and what we saw after the debt ceiling deal. now the debt ceiling deal was widely regarded that it was something of a win for mccarthy. he got something out of raising the debt ceiling which is generally how it's done. but we saw this wing of the party asserting themselves kind

of as if they felt they had one pulled over them in this debt ceiling process. and now what we have is a new must-pass bill. using these must-pass bills is the way things get done increasingly in washington because other stuff just isn't going to get through. so the real question here is how far the freedom caucus is willing to push in order to assert itself and try to get some of these authorities, some of these priorities actually passed into law potentially. of course, mccarthy and his allies are warning that many of these things that they are pushing would simply torpedo the whole bill, especially in the democratic-controlled senate, but possibly even the house too. >> so how does it end, aaron blake? >> it's going to be a difficult balancing act. i think it's worth noting that a lot of not necessarily some of the more moderate republicans, but more establishment-oriented republicans have kind of kept this effort at arm's length and suggested that it's not very productive. but, you know, this is a situation in the house where a

very small number of members can force an issue if they really decide to. i think the question for them right now is how much do they want to potentially alienate those other sections of the party by really pushing forward with something that most of them agree is pretty counterproductive and could potentially reflect very poorly on the counterproductive and could reflect poorly on the party especially next to tommy tuberville blocking all these promotions in the military. >> it is an unbelievable political flank to expose. i mean, you've got republicans now who today in front of the cameras sought to smear and demean the leader of the fbi. i'm hold enough to remember when they stood with law enforcement, especially the country's premier law enforcement agency. you've got tuberville who led to this unprecedented stopping, halting of military promotions. and zero ability to contain an anti-pentagon movement inside the house republican caucus. is anyone worried about the

optic of being anti-military. >> what we've seen over the course of the last few year bus i would argue more so this year is there are many republicans in the house who are not looking out for their party as broader interest or their midterm or 2024 election hopes. they few themselves as using these levers of power, using the authority that they have to force these issues that they believe themselves to be very important and worth risking those things. but i think this is just the latest example of something that is giving those republican leaders -- because they recognize it's counterproductive and could end up -- >> just takes a democratic candidate who can call out all the things they've done in these hearings. well reported by focus like yourself. thank you very much for spending time with us on this story. truly incredible. another break for us. we'll be right back. eak for us we'll be right back.

finally for us, there's some good news to tell you about, good news for american consumers and good news for president joe biden as today's cpi report signalled, inflation is cooling. inflation rose 3% last month, marking the lowest level in more than two years. it's down from 4% in pay. annual inflation has fallen for 12 consecutive months. wall street reacted positively to this report as well as joe biden, saying this, our

progress while low -- i will continue to fight for lower costs for families every day. i ran for office to grow the economy from the middle out and bottom up, not the top down. that is exactly what we are doing. another break for us. we'll be right back. another break for us we'll be right back.

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what are you working on? and help ga bomb. workforce it's happening, isn't it? this is the most important thing to every happen in the history of the world! thank you so much for letting substance abuse your homes during these truly extraordinary times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicolle. thanks so much. welcome to "the beat," everyone. i'm ari melber.

let me say it like this tonight -- guess who's bizack? the one and only james carville is here. that's so important. there he is. proof of life we call that, james. >> there you go. >> raring. when you have something important, same in the courtroom, same in politics, you bring it right up. i got james here, and here we go, we begin with the breaking news. this is a big one -- we have followed the impact of lies and conspiracy theories in our politics, in our media, ecosystems and in court where there have been major consequences. you know that if you follow the news, and the news tonight, fox news hit with a new punishing defamation suit. if you're counting, this is the third. it has to do with january 6th. the issues there are about civil court, not criminal. we've covered the criminal side of this many times. the civil side is whether there werepl