>> i believe in labor. i believe in representation, all of those things. if my union votes to go out, i'll go out. >> among the actors' demands are pay increases and guardrails for the use of the artificial intelligence. that does it for me. you can catch me on my podcast strict scrutiny which is about the supreme court and the legal culture that surrounds it wherever you find your podcast. the reidout with joy reid is up next. tonight on the reidout -- >> i think his involvement is clear, and every drop of new evidence that emerges in the public arena only underscores that. all of it really manifested itself in a multifaceted, national, coordinated, illegal effort to interfere with voters.

>> the special counsel investigation on trump's attempt to overturn the election, tonight a look at how jack smith's prosecution of that plot could play out. plus, breaking news in that investigation with reporting tonight that trump's son-in-law jared kushner has testified to the january 6th grand jury. also, the radical normalcy of joe biden on the world stage. he's leading a united nato after his predecessor publicly sided with putin. hollywood showdown, the actors have joined the writers on strike. what they're fighting for and how it will affect what you see on tv and at the movies. >> we begin tonight with breaking news in the special counsel's investigation into donald trump's efforts to try to remain in power after his 020 election loss. late this afternoon "the new york times" reported that federal prosecutors questioned multiple witnesses in recent

weeks including trump's son-in-law jared kushner on whether trump had privately acknowledged in the days after the 2020 election that he had lost. jared kushner was not the only one of trump's closest advisers, but as msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin reminded me, other than trump adviser jason miller, no one was more involved in the post election fund-raising efforts pushing the big lie that jared. that could also mean the campaign finance angle of the investigation is also very much alive. it's the latest sign of a potential third indictment for the twice- impeached, twice-indicted former president and the second coming from special counsel jack smith. while smith has already brought charges against trump for his mishandling of classified documents, as we see he has also been hard at work on this other investigation. from what we've been able to learn it goes well beyond just the events of january 6th including everything in the

months leading up to the attack on the u.s. capitol. in particular, we're learning more about the special counsel's investigation into how trump and his allies tried to pressure state officials to help overturn their state's election results, as well as forming the so-called alternate slates of electors in states joe biden won. michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson is now confirming that she spoke with federal prosecutors as part of that probe back in march. she joins the secretary of states from some of the other 2020 battleground states, arizona, georgia and nevada, who have either been subpoenaed or have already spoken with the special counsel's team. and there are signs that the grand jury investigating trump's efforts are back at it in the d.c. federal courthouse. one of the special counsel's lead investigators in that case, thomas wyndham, was spotted entering the building this morning. he was also seen there on tuesday. as far as we can tell, no

notable witnesses were spotted in the courthouse on either day, making us wonder why else would he be there with the grand jury if no witnesses were present. if jack smith were to go forward with an indictment, it begs the questions, what would it look like? well, a group of seven former prosecutors and defense attorneys with decades of constitutional and criminal law experience laid out just that in what's called a prosecution memoranda, something federal prosecutors would prepare before bringing an indictment. it would include admissible evidence, possible charges and legal issues. joining me now is attorney joshua stanton, one of the co-authors of that model prosecution menu, and paul butler, former federal prosecutor, georgetown law professor and msnbc legal analyst. thank you both for being here. i want to start with you, joshua. if you could just walk us through. i read the introduction to the memoranda you created. walk us through in simple terms

what this prosecution memorandum alleges and what you think can be proven by jack smith if he were to prosecute a case like this. >> well, we took the evidence we found in the public record, much of which was pulled together by the january 6th committee and very helpfully released in a report along with a whole host looked through.ocuments which we since then there's also been quite a bit of public reforth. so we analyzed all of that and essentially realized that probably the best case that special counsel jack smith could bring would be a kind of three-act case focusing on strategies that trump and his lawyers and lawyers for his campaign put together in order to try to overturn the election through both legal and illegal means in the court and in the white house itself. and when that failed, pushing

vice president mike pence to, himself, overturn the election in favor of trump. and when that appeared to be failing, moving on to a third act, and on january 6th itself using his mass of supporters, either bringing them there in order to engage in this insurrection or at a minimum, once they had moved into the white house knowingly failing to stop this assault on the capital. so in each one of those stages there are a whole host of federal crimes that trump and others could be charged with. >> right. it is really -- you lay it out so well. i'll bring up barbara mcquade which apparently inspired some of the work you all did and works with security as a member of you all's team. the three acts. trump knows he lost, but doesn't want to give up power. he sets up separate screams, the

doj, the fake electors. we'll try that. i want to show the fake electors for one of the states. let's take a look at that. this is what it looked like. i think this might have been michigan. so you had these people actually meet, joshua -- sorry. this is arizona, by the way, a state that's also investigating maybe similar to the way georgia is doing whether any laws were broken there. these feek elector meetings, how do they play into what you see as a potential prosecution? >> well, what we understand is that there were a group of people both in the trump campaign as well as in the white house, chief among them trump, his lawyers john eastman and kenna chess borrow who essentially orchestrated as the evidence supports a plan to have a kind of alternate slate of

electors meet. that alternate slate, as they described it in their memos, the concept was that they would submit certificates to congress saying we are the actual electors that were elected by our state in favor of trump. now, those certificates that they signed on to, of course, were fabricated, were false. biden won those states. now, the people actually signing on to those may themselves not have fully understand the process, what they would be used for. why they were being used in that particular way, but the evidence does seem to show that at least the orchestraters of the scheme knew they were false, knew they would be submitted to congress and be used in a way in an effort to overturn a lawful election. that violates, again, a whole host potentially of federal

statutes. >> paul butler, i wonder as a prosecutor when you look at this and look through this memo -- it read cogently to me. does it matter if donald trump really believed he lost? i want to play you this. this is from the january 6th hearing. this is a bunch of staffers saying, yep, he knew he lost. >> so the president says -- it could have been pom pyoment he says words to the effect of, yeah, we lost. we need to let that issue go to the next guy, meaning president biden. >> i remember maybe a week after the election was called i popped into the oval just to like give the president the headlines and see how he was doing. he was looking at the tv, and he said, can you believei lost to this f'ing guy. >> following that conversation with the motorcade ride, driving back to the white house, i said does the president really think that he lost, and he said a lot

of times he'll tell me that he lost but he wants to keep fighting it. he thinks there might be enough to overturn the election but he's pretty much acknowledged that he's lost. >> if you were bringing a case like this to trial, paul, would you need him to know he lost? >> it certainly will helper suede the jury for crimes like obstruction of an official proceeding or conspiracy to defraud the united states, that he had that criminal mind state. joy, that's been established over and over. we just heard from elise is a farah griffin, the communications director, she said days after the election, can you believe i lost. mark milley, the chair of the joint chief of staff. trump filed 60 lawsuits and lost 60 times. steve bannon saying before the

election that trump was going to say he won even if he really didn't. i repeat, bannon said that before the election. so, joy, the evidence suggests that trump he'd lost but he just didn't care. as far as he was concerned, losing the election didn't mean that he still couldn't be president, and that extraordinary subversion of democracy by a sitting president is exactly why jack smith has to prosecute this case. >> joshua, let me ask you this question. in your report you talk about you assume it's going to be a narrow prosecution. there are a lot of people who were a part of this scheme, and there are a lot of witnesses, from mike pence to jared kushner, you can go on and on. if it's a narrow prosecution like in the documents case, where it's just nauta and trump, who would you think would be the

second guy? >> as a second guy it's the one who shows up the most through the january 6th committee report which is john eastman who drafted the memorandum, who orchestrated much of the -- use of the false electoral certificates and the pressure campaign against pence. there's probably going to be several other people, but he's probably the one that needs to be most nervous. >> paul, i will ask you, we said a january 6th prosecutor was spotted going into the courthouse today, but not any witnesses seated. what does that tell you about the timeline? last time a prosecutor was spotted with no witnesses, trump got indicted in the documents case. >> as a prosecutor, i presented to grand juries in that same d.c. courtroom. jack smith is acting like he's

going to bring charges for january 6th and specifically the fake elector scheme. it was donald trump's big lie that authorized this criminal conspiracy. as joshua noted, the special counsel's charge allowed prosecutions against everybody who is involved. so, yeah, people who should be worried include john eastman who created this scheme, and the people who apparently oorg niezed and financed it like the my pillow guy, mike lindell. rudy giuliani is also a possible target although he appears to be cooperating with the investigation for now, which could help him get a deal. >> mark meadows i think also is maybe cooperating. it's interesting. it remains fascinating. joshua stanton and paul butler, thank you very much. up next on the reidout, president biden stands tall at the nato summit, vigorously embracing the expanding summit.

elections really do have consequences. the reidout continues after this. consequences the reidt oucontinues after this tect this: living with hiv, i learned i can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why i switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines to help keep you undetectable than dovato. detect this: most hiv pills contain 3 or 4 medicines. dovato is as effective with just 2. if you have hepatitis b, don't stop dovato without talking to your doctor. don't take dovato if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking dofetilide. this can cause serious or life-threatening side effects. if you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop dovato and get medical help right away. serious or life-threatening lactic acid buildup and liver problems can occur. tell your doctor if you have kidney or liver problems, or if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. dovato may harm an unborn baby. most common side effects are headache, nausea, diarrhea, trouble sleeping, tiredness, and anxiety. detect this:

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switch today at xfinitymobile.com. president biden is closing out a week-long trip to europe where nato cleared the path for its future member sweden and vowed to embrace ukraine when conditions are right. he spent the day in helsinki with the leaders of finland, sweden, norway, denmark and

iceland celebrating the newest member finland. a strong display of unity for the alliance as ukraine continues its counteroffensive against russia. just weeks after an attempted mutiny by the wagner group. >> at this critical moment in history, this inflection point, the world is watching to see will we do the hard work that matters to forge a better future? will we stand together, will we stand with one another? will we stay committed to our course? this week, the united states and our allies and partners said a resounding loud yes, yes we'll step up. yes, we'll stand together and yes, we'll keep working towards a stronger, safer, more secure world. >> biden's visit was a dramatic about face for the united states. his predecessor was openly

hostile to the nato alliance and its member. in low-key shade, the biden administration held today's events in helsinki almost five years to the day after trump stood side-by-side with putin and said he trusted the former kgb agent more than america's intelligence agencies. >> they think it's russia. i have president putin, he just said it's not russia. i will say this. i don't see any reason why it would be. i have great confidence in my intelligence people, but i will tell you that president putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. >> the former president who likes to say the world is laughing at biden was technically the only president of the united states to be laughed at by the almost 200 members of the united nations at the general assembly. >> in less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than almost any

administration in the history of our country. [ laughter ] so true. didn't expect that reaction, but that's okay. >> it's fair to say biden is having a strong week. he's expanded nato, embarrassed putin and over seen a significant drop in inflation which can explain why maga republicans are losing their marbles in the house. last night they loaded the national defense act which at which would prohibit the department of defense pro providing gender affirming care and gut diversity and inclusion problems. that's not all. marjorie taylor greene following the lead of her colleagues who wants to defund the police, the fbi, she wants the strike 300

million in funding for ukraine. that was a bridge too far for the rest of her caucus and it didn't make it into the final version. however, the remaining demands endanger the passage of what's typically a bipartisan bill and faces a daunting path forward in the united states senate. joining me is retired admiral james stavridis and msnbc chief international analyst david jolly, msnbc political analyst and former republican congressman who is no longer affiliated with a party. thank you both for being here. admiral stavridis, just a general comment, on the difference in tone and stature for the united states and dignity for the united states and having a president like joe biden who is a proud member of the international community and doesn't suck up to putin in helsinki. >> every time i see that footage from helsinki, i find it

incredibly inunbelievable that an american president would stand there and do that. i've known president biden a long time. when he was vice president he visited many times to nato. i've watched him sit at the dinner table at the ambassador's house and literally walk around and discuss every member of the alliance in detail. boy, does he understand the world and what a difference it makes. we are really celebrating this moment, joy, for the alliance and in particular the accession of sweden -- sweden at one point provided my personal protection in afghanistan, their special forces. their fighters, aircraft are incredible. the fins have more combat capability on the ground than almost any nation in europe. you know that distant boom you hear is vladimir putin's head

exploding at frustration with the upcheck of the alliance lead by president biden. >> i think the other boom you might hear, the echoing boom might be republicans' heads exploding because they actually -- i think it's almost as embarrassing that the united states congress took a vote on whether to defund our ally that is being invaded by russia, that they literally -- the fact that kevin mccarthy had to let them take that vote i think is also quite humiliating. your thoughts? >> that's expecting a party that has no shame to be capable of feeling embarrassment. i think that's donald trump has reshaeb shaped the republican party. joe biden restored leadership on the world stage, restored diplomatic leadership. if there's a domestic political contrast to be drawn, it's how donald trump let himself reshape the party, someone who is transactional by nature. if vladimir putin is the highest

bidder, he'll work with putin over our alliance for freedom in nato and also somebody with the vanity and narcissim that we watch. if nearly a century of history suggests nato is our strongest way of protecting freedom in the west, that wasn't donald trump's idea so he doesn't like it. that immaturity of leadership has infected the entire republican party and you see it in these amendments on the floor of the house right now, trying to defund our support of ukraine. >> admiral, i'm going to play for you president biden's response. you as somebody who was a leader of nato and obviously as an admiral a leader within tvy, i w it strikes you that the leadership of the united states marines is being held hostage by one senator, and he is no veteran, he has no military experience whatsoever, has not served the country in that way. yet he still feels because he's opposed to abortion he can do this.

here is what president biden has to say about tommy tuberville. >> he's jeopardizing u.s. security. i expect the republican party to stand up, stand up and do something about it. the idea that we're injecting into fundamental foreign policy decisions what, in fact, as a domestic social debate on social issues is bizarre. i don't ever recall that happening, ever. it's just totally irresponsible in my view. >> admiral, i'll let you add your thoughts. >> the president biden obviously is exactly right. coach tuberville is a football coach. he ought to understand that teams need leaders. you can't just rip out the coaches. that's what's happening. we'll have a u.s. marine corps, arguably our most elite fighting force without a come man can't for the first time in 150 years.

you think coach tuberville would send his football team onto the gripped iron -- here is a news flash, our national security is not a game. we've got to get past this, through it, over it, whatever it takes. but i yield to the distinguished congressman from florida to tell me how to get the republicans to take this on, please. >> well, i hate to say it, but he kind of did. he kind of did ditch his college football team to go to alabama and left them in the lurch. maybe he feels like that's a history he would like to repeat with the entire marine corps. let me throw it over to you -- i mean he did. david jolly, i want you to answer that. please give us a sense of how that could change. but also i'm going to ask you to respond, after you tell us that, to something else that is pretty bizarre. go ahead. >> i think to the admiral's point, this is just where the republican party has dramatically shifted. it used to be on matters of national security, armed forces,

potentially the national defense authorization act that you grant the administration the leadership they needed and certainly you wanted leadership in the top ranks including currently where the marine corps is using an acting commandant. the parties changed. i left. that's how i got my settlement in, if you will. >> there's a big fight on the republican side about dei. they don't like the idea of recruiting people of color. here is what one eli crane, representative out of arizona, had to say about that today. >> well, mr. chairman, that was unbelievably inspiring. my amendment has nothing to do with whether or not colored people, black people or anybody can serve. it has nothing to do with color -- >> mr. speaker -- >> -- any of that stuff. >> yeah. so that happened in the year of our lord 2023, david.

your thoughts. >> joy, unsettling i think for all of us who just heard that. eli crane, a freshman member of congress endorsed by donald trump, an election denier who tried to get his home state to decertify the biden election. congresswoman beatty from ohio asked to have those words stricken. as someone who has worked with the house for about 25 years, i did wonder when was the last time in the congressional record the term colored people actually appears? you would hope it would be 70 years ago, 50, a long time ago. congresswoman beatty tonight succeeded in having those words stricken from the congressional record. they will not appear, but i wonder if they should because it's a time stamp on eli crane. >> i wish we had more time. admiral james stavridis who honorably has served including running nato. and david jolly, honorable congressman who left the party

because he said this ain't for me. thank you both very much. still ahead, movie and tv actors join striking writers demanding better wages and conditions with disney's bob iger calling their demands unrealistic before heading home to one of his multimillion dollar mansions. we'll be right back. right back. ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on... ♪ [coughing] ♪ ...by, you know how i feel. ♪ if you're tired of staring down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, ♪ ♪ it's a new day... ♪ ...stop settling. ♪ ...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ start a new day with trelegy. no once-daily copd medicine has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy makes breathing easier for a full 24 hours, improves lung function, and helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition

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today for the first time in decades, sag-aftra representing 160,000 television and movie actors announced that they are going on strike. they're asking producers for increased minimum pay rates and streaming residuals as well as guarantees about how ai will be used, similar to what tv and movie writers who have been on strike for more than 70 days are asking for. this is the first time since 1960 that both writers and actors have been on strike at the same time. here's the thing, despite working in glamorous hollywood, actors and writers aren't all fabulously wealthy. due to the rise of streaming and inflation, actors and writers are making less money than they were a few years ago while ceo pay continues to increase. the alliance of motion picture and television producers said in a statement they had presented, quote, a historic deal, and that the union has, quote, regredbly chosen a path that would lead to

financial hardship. the guild says the alliance was unwilling to offer a fair deal. here is sag-aftra president fran drescher who you might remember from her iconic sitcom role in "the nanny." >> we have the victims here. we are being victimized by a very greedy entity. i am shocked by the way the people that we have been in business with are treating us. i cannot believe it, quite frankly, how far apart we are on so many things. how they plead poverty, that they're losing money left and right when giving hundreds of millions of dollars to their ceos. it is disgusting. shake on them. they stand on the wrong side of history. >> the strike goes into effect at midnight. meanwhile, there appears to be

no end in sight to the writers strike with industry sources telling "deadline" they'll let the situation bleed out and the end game is to allow things to drag on until union members start losing their apartments and losing their houses. publicly, of course, the alliance is refuting that. comcast, the corporation that owns our parent company, nbc universal, is one of the entertainment companies represented by the alliance, and some employees of nbc universal are represented by the writers guild. joining me is actress evette nicole brown who serves on the sag-aftra brown. evette nicole brown, thank you so much for being here. i think because people see you, see you on tv. i think they assume that every time they see you, a check is being cut. i think that's just the way people think about writers, actors and everyone, and that's the way it should be, that whenever somebody's rerun of a great show that you were in runs. is that true? >> no, it's not true.

for every one that you see -- first of all, thank you for having me, joy. i love you. for i have reone you see that appears to be balling out of control, there are thousands, thousands just getting there. we're fighting for just a piece of pie. these producers are acting as if there's so much money going around -- not enough money going around, all the money is going into their yachts. they're getting parachutes, $50 million a year, $30 million a year. we're just, can i get some groceries? can i drive to work in a car that has gas in it? it's literally that serious. i think fran drescher laid it out in a way that's very plain. if people haven't seen that press conference, go and watch that press conference. the other thing i want to say is back in the day you could live off residuals. you would do a show, reruns would run, you'd get a couple checks and you'd pay your bills. on streaming, it takes -- they

can play it a whole bunch of times before you get a dime. there's an actress from "orange is the new black" that showed her residuals, there was 200 hits of the show being watched. herpes of the pie was $20. >> come on now. >> who can live off of that? >> i feel like the writers are in a worse position. like you said, a show used to be like 22 episodes. now it's like six of "succession." if "succession" blows up, it's not like writers get a bonus. there's not extra money. >> you get paid for the one you wrote. you have to wait for maybe a year and a half before you go back into production and write again. the same thing with actors, when we have these short seasons of shows, you're on hold. you do ten episodes and waiting seven or eight months before you work again. if there's no residuals and you're not working, how are you paying your bills? then you add in the ai piece where there's clauses in our contracts right now that say

they have the right to use our voice in this performance. if we don't carve out what ai is and ai can do, they can take a performance from, say, "community" of my voice and model it. well, we already own her as shirley. and now i'm the voice of cigna health care and i don't even know. there's all these things that need to be stopped now. this is the other thing. any time the producers say they don't know if something is going to make money, i don't believe that's true. it happened with dvds, it happened with streaming. oh, i don't know this dvd thing, who knows what it's going to be. they know full well that it's going to make them a lot of money. they don't put it forward unless they've already done all the metrics to know how much money they're going to make. we buy into the idea it may not be profitable. we look up later and we're five, ten years behind the curve and we're always chasing it.ryg to is get ahead of it. we know what ai is. actors are having to pay all this money to pay for an audition. the residual issue, the amount

going into our health care plan is not good. it's all a crap show. if we don't fight now, we'll never get it. >> it took ron desantis to make me root for bob iger. his new contract, he's making $27 million a year plus bonuses. so when folks are saying these companies are struggling, when they're saying it's struggling, it's a lie. they're not struggling. they eve got money to give him $27 million. >> they want the money for the presidents, the heads of the networks and the shareholders. they're saying look how much money we're making. you don't have a show or movie without writers, without actors. we're in the center, as fran said today, we're creating this entertainment. i know it's scary, everybody is going to take a hit. if we don't do it now, we will not have an industry. i'm going to be right out there with my sign and my shirt. here we go. going to show it today. i'll be right out there tomorrow marching with the writers. let's do this.

let's have some solidarity and fight for what's right. >> as you know, my big sister is an actress out there. wave hey to her. >> i will, sis. i will. >> yvette nicole brown, my sister, i appreciate you. we are with you. we'll keep track of this story. coming up, what do you do when your policies are so unpopular, they have zero chance of becoming law? you enlist moms of right wing fanatics to bully your ideas into practice. more next. more next.

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and i'll be there with you. we're going to walk down to the capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. >> after losing the 2020 election and countless legal challenges, donald trump decided instead of conceding to the will of the american people, he would fill his supporters' heads with lies about election fraud, riling the base so much they'd storm the u.s. capitol on his behalf and try to force congress to change the election results, while all he had to do was sit in the white house and watch the chaos unfold. today we're seeing the republican party strike a similar strategy. they're empowering supporters to implement and enforce their

anti-woke culture war initiatives on their behalf. right wing legislators are faced with the reality that the draconian policies they want are wildly unpopular and straight-up undemocratic. much like donald trump did, they're relying on mobs of karens and tuckers to do the dirty work for them. in texas republicans passed an abortion ban that relies solely on private citizens for enforcement, not the government. the law incentivizes texans with a cash bounty if they succeed in suing anyone who has helped a person obtain an abortion, tattling for cash on any doctors who perform the procedure or even an uber driver who gave one a ride to a clinic. thin there are the book bans, republicans across the country want school libraries strip any book mentioning gay people or black history even though the majority of their voters do not want that. little gangs of their right wing allies, often allied with or

members of extremist groups like moms for liberty are bombarding school boards saying these are corrupt. sometimes the object tors are parents with kids in the school, sometimes not even close. it's a minuscule number of people doing this, creating policies that everyone in that district or county or state has to follow. your kid, their choice. a study from "the washington post" found the majority of the 1,000 book challenges last year were filed by just 11 people. in north carolina republicans want to take it one step further, introducing a bill they claim would give parents more authority over their children's education but will really just make it easier for parents to get school superintendents fired and librarians sued for simply doing their job. the karen crew said doesn't end there. it expands to republicans' other favorite tactic, voter suppression. some states have laws that allow

citizens to challenge the voter registrations of anyone for almost any reason. in new reporting from propublica found that in georgia tens of thousands of voter registrations were challenged by just six right wing activists. the reporter who broke that story joins me next. joins me ne. daily hiv pills because i switched to every-other-month cabenuva. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it's two injections from a healthcare provider. now when i have people over, hiv pills aren't on my mind. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients, or if you're taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection-site

reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. it feels good to just live in the moment. with every-other-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ask your doctor about cabenuva today. >> when georgia governor brian

kemp signed a voter suppression bill under a painting of a former slave plantation, he empowered pretty much any georgian to challenge an

unlimited number of voters in their county. voter challenges to proliferated. thanks to a new investigative report by propublica, we know more about who these amateur fraud hunters really are. it turns out close to 100,000 voter registrations have been challenged in georgia, almost all by just six, not a typo, six right-wing activists. one of those so-called activists is frank schneider, an election denier, spinning more than 3000 challenges. joseph riggs who a democrat who used his po box is a permanent mailing box when he became homeless. they asked him to explain this registration in a po box. riggs was living in a tent in a woods, juggling jobs at mcdonald's, against, asian attending the hearing would require an expensive uber ride, and force him to take unpaid time off work, ultimately he did not contest his removal from the roles. that was i was really angry, he

said. when you are homeless, your vote is the only voice you've got. joining me now is the writer of this piece, doug brock clark, investigative reporter and propublica. let's start with telling me, because six people, and it's a lot of challenges, who is backing the people who are filing these challenges? >> thanks for having me on. of those six people, five of those people are associated with right-wing organizations whose leaders help challenge, the results of the 2020 election so we are talking about organizations like the election integrity network led by karina mitchell, a conservative lawyer who was part of the infamous call in which trump asked georgia stutter secretary state to overturn elect action and find him 11,000 or so votes. we're also talking about look ahead america and voter j.a.. these, one of the extraordinary

things that you mentioned in your lead up about empowering anyone to do these challenges, is that the people who have taken up the georgia legislature's opening of that opportunity almost all have very strong ties to right-wing groups and are very politically conservative and active. this is not an equally ballot set of people who are making these challenges. >> other groups, the people they target, is there any kind of pattern to the kinds of people they target? >> so propublica was able to do a data analysis matching the people they challenged against records of who voted in which primaries. we found that they were challenging at a disproportionately high rate people who voted in the democratic primaries, which strongly suggests that they were targeting. that some of them were targeting democrats. >> where they specifically charged in fulton county, which

i know be devils donald trump and that's where he wanted to find 11,000 votes. are they targeting specific counties? >> yes, the vast majority of these challenges are happening in the atlantic area where there's fulton county or outlying suburbs of atlanta, which as you know is a democratic stronghold in georgia. >> i asked about all of this because republicans have floated a bill that they would like to pass on the national level that's modeled after the georgia bill. so they would like to take this strategy nationally. how does somebody sign up to be essentially an inquisitor who can attempt to strike people off the voter rolls? >> the 2021 changes in the georgia's election law allows anyone to do this. and the georgia citizen can challenge anyone else within their county. it really lowers the bar and makes explicit that anyone can do this against unlimited other georgians. so it just made this very easy

and it opened the door for a very large amount of challenges, which has impacted voters and election officials. >> the reality is very soviet. inform on your neighbors and get them, essentially disenfranchise them. have these people found any voter fraud? there is voter fraud. there's a guy in ohio in the cleveland plain dealer reports, a trump supporter who double voted in two consecutive elections. he said it was an accident even or he did it twice. there are some people, they just turning up to be trump voters. have they discovered any criminals through these challenges? >> county officials that we spoke to said that they were not aware of any of these challenges turning up any cases of fraud and state officials said they did not track that information. as one expert pointed out to us, if these people, if these challengers claim they are doing this for good reasons, to clean the voter rolls, but they

are really a packed big many democratic voters are making it harder for them to vote in some cases, really, why are they doing this? >> for that reason. at least that seems to be the right answer. doug bock clark, thank you. excellent reporting. that's tonight's reidout. all in with chris hayes starts now. starts now. >> tonight on all in. >> the president really think he lost, and he said a lot of times he'll tell me that he lost, but he wants to keep fighting it. >> what did the president know, and when did he acknowledge it? >> it is looking at the tv and said, can you believe i lost this? >> bombshell reporting from the new york times. prosecutors asking witnesses whether trump acknowledged his loss in order to gauge corrupt intent, and what we know about jared kushner's grand jury appearance. then, as prosecutors bear down on the republifr