man and women who saved his life. six months ago, during a game in cincinnati, how mueller went into cardiac arrest after a steady tackle. there is a dulls athletic training team led, by nate preston and including danny killington washed onto the field. they're deadly working on tomorrow. >> lifesaving cpr as the world watched. >> please welcome this recipient of the baton one word for service, the training staff of the buffalo bills. >> was the night hamlin bought them all onstage. [applause] his mother tearing up watching her son share a hug with the people who saved his life. >> damar, first and foremost, thank you for staying alive, brother. [laughter] >> these are helen has been arguing for cpr education, a push echoed on stage. >> learn cpr, and how to use an

aed, because they save lives. the response to damar's injury was able to bring our nation together for a moment. let's remember that feeling of unity and use it to make sure we can save the next life, as well. >> some genuine heroes taking us off the air tonight. i'm wishing you a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. we'll see you at the end of tomorrow tomorrow we >> start tonight with breaking news on your times, interview not don's top donors will plan in law andrea kushner. times reports that in an interview last month the special counsel focused on whether trump had privately acknowledged that he had lost the 2020 election, in other words, when trump claimed the election was rigged, did he know he was lying? did trump have corrupt intent

when he allegedly tried to subvert the election? also today, jack smith senior, assistant special counsel, a lawyer named tom windham, was spotted leaving the d.c. federal courthouse with for the second time this week. mr. windham is one of the top prosecutors working on special counsel smith's january six probe. that was a role he played before jack smith was appointed special counsel. this afternoon, mister wyndham was back in court, indicating that the current jury is meeting. with all of these new details, it really does seem like jack smith might be getting that much closer to potentially inditing trump over his actions in and around general sixth. the clock is ticking. fulton county, georgia da fani willis just head to grant juries paneled on tuesday.

one of those two grand juries will be asked whether or not willis should indict trump for his alleged efforts to overturn the 20 election in his state. the first of his grand jury began hearing cases today. federal prosecutors do not exactly love when parallel local investigations outpace their own. they want their evidence and their theory of the case to be the first version that the public hears. so da willis poses a problem for special counsel smith. da willis has signaled she anticipates announcing an indictment, potentially as early as july 31st, that gives special counsel smith 11 business days to make his own announcement, assuming he wants to make it first. that is not the only calendar that jack smith has to worry about. there has been endless speculation about what the upcoming presidential election calendar will mean for smith's prosecutorial decisions. today, we finally heard about the matter for the man himself. earlier this week, in jack smith's other case against trump, for trump's alleged mishandling of classified documents, team trump asked the judge to postpone the trial and that case until after the 2024

election. today, jack smith's team responded, saying team trump, and their arguments, had no basis in law or fact. and that the complications of a presidential candidates trial or actually reasons to start the process sooner rather than later. one wonders if that might apply to a certain other federal trump investigation as well. there are a number of reasons why jack smith is going to indict trump and soon. like in the next 11 business days, soon. what exactly could that look like? luckily we have two handy potential road maps here. number one, we have the other criminal indictment mr. smith has already filed against former president trump. the charges he poor against him in the documents case. and number two, we have this. this thing. a group of seven highly respected former prosecutors

and defense attorneys and prominent lawyers and administration officials put together a very comprehensive model prosecution, laying out what they think the charges against trump are likely to be. joining us now is danya perry, former assistant u. s. attorney for the southern district of new york and one of the office of this weighty model prosecution, and david aaron, a former federal prosecutor with the justice department national security division, which handles things like the mishandling of classified documents. danya, david, i could not think of two better people to talk to about all of this. dave, let me start with you. in terms of the inferences that we are making, based on jack smith's position in and around mar-a-lago. is it fair to look at that as a roadmap? >> in some ways it is. that was a little bit of a loyally response, but he is clint looking for a streamlined case. they focused very narrowly. they didn't include extra

defendants, and they streamlined their case. that is probably not possible and january six case because of the number of people involved. frankly, also, there is a bigger story to tell. >> i want to get to the potential charges, as written about he. but before i do that, in terms of timing, the response to date from the special counsel's office saying it presidential election isn't a reason to slow down a potential trial. it is reason to speed it up. one would think that that logic applies to any potential criminal indictment in january 6th, right? >> of course. if there is a public interest and just quickly, before the election, that applies with at least equal force to the case that is here to. >> so danya, when you thought about all of these varying factors, let's first of the timing. what do you think special

counsel smith thinks about, is concerned about, when he thinks about the 2024 presidential election? >> i think you had it exactly right and you're introductory remarks. there is an election coming up. he wants to get ahead of a cycle he made it very clear in his filing today in the mar-a-lago case. he is also mindful of the fulton county d. a.'s investigation. and as you point out, federal prosecutors usually win those turf wars. we were looking at the calendar to, mindful of the clock, this is what we kind of work night and day to get this model prosecution memo, out because i strongly suspect along with my co-authors, based on many, many decades of collective experience, this indictment, if it comes, will be coming in the next, as you say, probably 11 business days. so i think all of that is top of mind for special counsel smith and his team of intrepid prosecutors. >> danya, let's talk about what is outlined in this magnum

opus. there are three charges you talk about explicitly. one, conspiracy to defraud the u. s. for the fake elector spin. two, obstruction of an official proceeding, trying to stop mike pence from certifying the election on thundery sixth. three, this is probably the most explosive, just because it's been bandied about a lot and not all on the same page, inciting an insurrection or giving comfort to insurrectionists. can you talk about that last charge and why it was included in here? from a layman's perspective, it seems like the most complicated to charge. >> absolutely. that is why we kind of had to include it. because, if everything was a case for bringing this very little used statute, this is it. as we point out, it has seldom been used since the civil war. i agree with david in his remarks, this should be streamlined as the other indictment, is but it is going

to be very difficult for the prosecutors to do that, given the defendant, the wealth of information, the possibility of so many defendants, and so they could keep it to probably two charges, but if they really want to bring the most apt case. that stands on its own. it's unique by its nature. if ever there were a case for bringing this, such a charge, as i said, i think this is it. if you really analyze it. many, many pages. given the facts, the law, the precedent, this actually fits and it is one of the very few cases in history that does. so i think it is something that certainly the prosecutors must have spent a lot of time, spilled a lot of ink,

discussing. to me, if there is an indictment, that would be the wildcard if they do decide to bring one under this civil war era statute. >> dave, what did you think, i mean, what do you think about inciting insurrection? honestly, it is hard to reach healthy -- the evidence the public has been presented with, without using inciting an insurrection. >> you're right. it's one thing to say it colloquially, but how does the law to fund his terms? these statutes her old. there are four when people spoke differently. there is no definition in the statute of what is an insurrection and how is it different from a revolution. i think the draft prosecution memo does a good job of explaining health terms would apply. it really is the best

interpretation available of those terms. so it is a pretty good case made there, this qualifies as an insurrection. that is something that would have to be litigated. i think there are issues around proof of the then president's mental state. >> that is what i went to get to also, danya. we know that jared kushner has testified whether the president had corrupt intent, whether he knew he was lying around his claims that the election was stolen. other people have testified who are members of the inner circle in the trump administration. how much does it matter that the prosecutors can show he had corrupt intent? >> as we analyzed in the prosecution memo, if the prosecutor brings a narrow charge, in some ways it matters not at all. if the prosecution can show that mr. trump was aware for

example that the slate of electoral certificates that was submitted to congress was false, that could be enough in and of itself. if he knew that there was no legal authority whatsoever to put pressure on vice president pence, to overturn the will of the voters, that could be enough in and of itself. if he willfully incited this crowd to an insurrection, that could be enough. so that is kind of the narrow case. but as a matter of jury appeal, as a matter of telling a narrative, it of course would be helpful to be able to tell the jury, to persuade the jury, that mr. trump at the time knew that, in fact, the election was not stolen and that he had actually lost the election. from what we've heard, from reporting, up until today,

there are many people who would say yes he was aware. mr. kushner may have said the opposite. there are good strategic reasons for the prosecution to call jared kushner into the current jury, to tell that story. even if it doesn't actually support the prosecution. it can draw the sting, it can help them to anticipate what the defense will be. so there are other reasons, we don't know what he testified to. but according to reporting, he testified that no, in fact, the president thought he had legitimately won. i still think even if there are witnesses who will tell that, ultimately -- that's the narrow case that doesn't require proof he knew the election wasn't stolen. but there are enough people telling him, there was no proof that it was, and so that is more of an insanity plea that it is actually a good faith defense.

in my view and that of my coauthors. >> dave, it reminds me of the bedminster tape. that the prosecution did not charge trump on. they did not charge him on dissemination. just having the tape of trump acknowledging the classified information was not his didn't follow, and potentially waving around classified documents in front of people without security clearance. in the court of public opinion, that meadows, right? that is the kind of evidence the public needs to understand just how wrong the behavior was. i wonder if it is sort of the same thing in terms of corrupt intent. is it to just explain to the public, he knew what he was doing was wrong and that is what we are going to trial with this? or is it more meaningful than that, do you feel that actually needs to be presented in court is part of a potential indictment? >> i think it's both.

>> know they're very lawyerly answer. >> sorry. debilitate anti incitement to insurrection statements. they have something else in common. the defense is the defense of posting. when i think about proving state of mind, it's not so much that he knew he had lost the election, it is was he willfully insulting and insurrection or was he just talking. was he just talking the way he always talks. was he just boastering. that would be an interesting line. that is, is there a lot of evidence saying he knew what he was saying at the time. >> are you saying jack smith could pay making room for for the prosecutions down the line at this level? we know he just brought brad raffensperger in recently, the current georgia secretary of state. we know, the washington post is reporting that arizona is professionalizing it's on probe

into election temples in and around the 2020 election. they may have their own funny willis level of estimation. there is a lot happening at these level from the feds and state level ags. is it possible we could see a situation where president trump, former president trump, is charged and then the investigations and indictments continue on after that? >> yes, as much as people like to joke about state and federal or federal and local, there is some intense cooperation. if something can proceed and one system, the authorities will cooperate and look at persuading the other. the limiting factor would be the appetite for bringing yet another one of his cases. >> that is the million dollar question to be resolved and the next 11 business days. thank you both for your time and great wisdom plus evening. we have a lot more to come tonight. what it might mean to have the presidential nominee standing trial on multiple criminal indictments, while he is running for president. my former travel buddies will be here on set to talk about

that very weird split screen, after the break. and fran dresher joins me as 160, 000 tv and film actors prepare to go on strike tonight, after failing to reach a deal with studios. stay with us. >> how they plead poverty that they are losing money left and right. we're giving hundreds of millions of dollars to their ceos. it is disgusting. shame on them. shingles. some describe it as pulsing electric shocks or sharp, stabbing pains. ♪♪ this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. a pain so intense, you could miss out on family time. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles.

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he goes to bed every night thinking about the sound of that jail cell to closing behind him. >> there are two things moving over the 2024 campaign. donald trump and the multiple criminal charges against him. he remains the front runner in the republican field and yet there is a pretty decent chance he will have to appear in court as part of two federal cases at the same time that the campaign is on. so what does that mean for the already circus-like atmosphere? i have trust people to ask that. joining us now are the co-host and executive producers of showtime's, the circus, my old traveling companions and her friends. this is the most number of people we have ever had on the set. >> bring on the clowns. >> i think they are already here. >> and away, yes. john, also with you. what does it mean? first of all, you have studied trump, the political creature, for many months now.

i wonder what you think the specter of potential multiple federal criminal indictments is testing him as a candidate? >> the thing you sit in the leadin is the real thing. hovering over the, race or are these two things. i have to say, i've covered president -- since 1992. i've never been less interested in what's going on and the republicans. it's a kabuki dance. it's not anything. the only story is trump. he is so much the dominant figure. people are like, i'm going to see mike pence. what are you talking about? he's not relevant to who's going to be the republican nominee. the stories are about photos and donald trump. the legal system and donald trump. compared to him -- he's had so much power in the party. he's transform the party for years, but it's no evident as a

huge cult of personality. it's the maga party, not the republican party. the more the legal system gets him and, when but the rest of this, people running around, there are some serious people in the, race there is a lot of them now. but it is all sort of, like really? i've got to pay attention to that? it just seems irrelevant. >> i guess you're not going to the stick fight with mike pence, but i do have to ask, the idea that trump is going to be wounded by these indictments. i mean, maybe, with a certain subset of the electorate. but as a candidate i feel like you are going to be hearing about this at every rally that he holds because he does draw strength from controversy? >> that is actually what he wants. he wants to be the dominant piece of attention for all of us and all the media. that's what really matters to him. that's why he ran the first place. he didn't think he was going to be elected, he just knew it was the biggest spot in the world. he is doing it again. the fact is that he is going to

absorb all of that but he is a twice indicted, first time in a 100 years to not be reelected, and lose the house, and lose the senate, that hasn't happened since grover cleveland. and two indictments now. but there could be a third, and they could be a fourth. the question is, if nothing's happened after two, watch anything have an upper floor. but at a certain point, voters are gonna say, canhe win a general election? the answer is no, he. can't >> you say that definitively. >> i think that after, a certain, point yes, they are going to safeguard can't win. that is when the bleeding. starts >> there -- >> there will be enough polls between now and then to say he is cleaning up and the primary, but he will be crushed in the. general >> i'd understand. what does not republican take the bait, no fillers or looking candidates. >> chris christie. >> other than chris christie who is pulling at 4% right now. >> yes, but he was at 1% when

he started. not that he's going to win, but it shows that there is a appetite. >> there is a chance. >> do we have time to play this incredible sound from tim scott on piers morgan? can we play it? let's play it. >> to win the nomination, you have to knock out donald trump. how will you do? that >> everyone watching the show tonight can go to vote tim scott. com. learn more about who i am. >> are you a better human being than donald trump? >> i think we all have intrinsic value in the eyes of god. >> you've got some people who are mad that i don't love trump 100% all the time. i love my hundred percent of the time. >> oh my god. i love my husband -- >> weird to make an allusion between donald trump and your husband, but teed up, here is our chance for you just something about donald trump -- >> that is what the republican primary is about.

politico had a story today that say donors are not worried that desantis doesn't have to use. >> -- >> now they are taking a look at tim scott. but the most fundamental thing and politics. you to find the differences between you and your opponent. >> and no one's looking, you know, the whole theory of the centers is that people want an alternative to trump. there is no push to have an alternative to trump. 51% of the primary vote right now. >> i want to challenge tim scott's comment that we all have intrinsic value in the eye of the lord. speak for yourself, buddy. here is the thing about this. we, you know, have a take on trump, take on trump. i think the loyalty to it and looked parts of your militant base or sentence. i myself contract. john ellis, a very smart man, keeps saying you have got to figure out a way to hug trump

while you shiv him. beating him up is not with republican base wants to see. the people who vote republican, they don't want to see someone say don trump is terrible. they want someone who says, the gold watch strategy -- >> that's what desantis is kind of trying -- >> but desantis is so obviously not ready for primetime. it is kind of like, it is very hard. they are trying to find a way -- they have to do some contrast. but just beating the hell out of trump is not going to be the way. the republican nominee -- the base likes donald trump. we don't understand it. it's all bonkers. villa. can >> can i ask one question. what does joe biden do if donald trump is facing multiple federal criminal indictments, he has said nothing thus far.

he is going to have to say something at some point. >> i don't know. i think he just runs his race. they plan, yeah, what would he say. what would he say? he would say there is a dangerous agenda that he followed, the maga agenda, he disrupted our democracy, he doesn't respect for receive, he doesn't have to go to the indictments. i don't see why he would ever really have to be in a position where he has to comment on a real way on the indictment. . >> that's an interesting and important caveat, in a real way. because the whole arguments -- >> this guy is chaos. indictments are an element of position of the chaos. >> that was the rationale for his candidacy in the first place. rstore the soul of america. >> he's got a great contrast. >> obviously, we have more talk about. keep your touches in the seats. because we are going to talk much more about 2024 and the republican war on woke.

the craziness unfolding right now on capitol hill, as house speaker kevin mccarthy once again bends to the culture warriors in his party's right when. stay with us, we're coming back after the commercial break. i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum & enamel relieves sensitivity, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. humpty dumpty does it with a great fall. wonderful pistachios. get i'm a bcrackin'ate of

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that were yelled at my sixth grader this year at the middle school. you are going to hell. my parents say i can't talk to you because you are gay. fag.

i bet if i kissed you would like it. you don't deserve to live. my parents say you are a pervert and if i beat you up they wouldn't care. you should kill yourself. die, faggot. my 13-year-old. where do you think these kids are hearing it from? >> that is lindsey patrick-wright. her child is in the sixth grade in tennessee, a state that has passed more anti-lgbtq laws in the last eight years than any other state in america. that question that she is asking at the end, where do you think these kids are hearing it from? is a direct indictment of the republican party. anti gay anti-trans culture wars are being fought by republican lawmakers in schools and in doctors'offices and even in the u.s. military. right now, at this very moment, congress is in the middle of trying to pass the annual defense budget.

inthe process of trying to get this thing passed, speaker kevin mccarthy has been cowed by the right flank of his party, which seems to be treating the bill like a culture war christmas tree, trying to hang dozens of amendments on the bill before passing it. the amendments would prevent the military from providing gender-affirming care to service members, would block service members from being reimbursed for abortion care, and would eliminate diversity, equity, and inclusion. the list goes on. so on this big night, the co-host of showtime's the circus, john heilemann, jen palmieri, and mark mckinnon. mark, the republican parly party that you once worked for has changed a lot. and it's hard to articulate what the priorities are at this stage of the game other than the culture war. >> completely unrecognizable to me. so contrary to the message that attracted people like me across the bridge back in the 1990s about compassionate conservatism.

i don't see an ounce of compassion anywhere. i think the problem is gonna be the republicans caught the car on this and it is now clear that the party has been completely controlled by the fringes and the fringes are controlling the dialogue and the agenda. and they're just gonna take a run off the cliff. listen, kansas was a great example on abortion. that's one of the most conservative places in the country, obviously, and the abortion amendment that was passed today are surprised everybody. but it passed there, that should be the memo to republicans that they just haven't got. >> and tomorrow, at a summit in iowa, two of the six leading presidential candidates are going to be in the same afternoon session as good governors signing a six-week abortion ban into law. and yet this is what republicans are doing to other republicans. >> ron desantis acts like he did not, i know it happened 11:00 at night, but you signed the six-week abortion ban, and

it is what you are for. and when we covered the glenn youngkin race in 2021, yes we spent time in fairfax county, i think, -- county with a woman that was very concerned about critical race theory, a mom, and those issues seem like they were gonna dominate in 2022, but look what happened. >> it has taken over the entire republican party. >> and then dobbs happened. >> the culture war issues, and one of the things about just to be blunt about it, critical race theory is a very different cast to that issue because of the fact that it's not 52% of the population is not african american. republicans have run racist and race baited campaigns for a long time and they can do that because the math works in a lot of cases and they have profited from it over the years. i'm not approving it but -- >> not saying those numbers are changing. >> they are changing but still, what changed was an issue wet

the vast majority of america or half the country, half the voters are women and way more than half a country objected to what happened in dobbs. but you still see, not just that this thing in iowa. on the house floor and then put up to take to effectively ban abortions in the military. and all of the new york republicans who got elected, this five or six purple biden districts here that went republican in 2022 and they all voted for that amendment. it's not gonna go anywhere. the senate's gonna kill it. >> on the record so -- >> where the house is going, bring it on. >> women signed up to serve in the military denied a basic health right. >> unbelievable. i do wonder, as we talk about ron desantis, who shrewdly signed his six-week abortion ban at midnight with no media in the room -- >> there's two routes that usually don't go together. desantis and shrewdly.

>> we are hearing thatdonors are less than enamored of governor desantis and are looking for alternatives. rupert murdoch says he wants glenn youngkin to throw his hat in the ring. i do wonder, in terms of culture warriors, do you see a meaningful difference in the way that, for example, glenn youngkin has handled this versus ron desantis? has he done a better job? >> well, listen, a lot of this is just style and demeanor. ron desantis, it's not that voters don't like him he doesn't like voters. that's the problem. he's a worst retail politician i've ever seen. i think of presidents i've known, they love to campaign. they love the. people clinton, obama, biden. desantis doesn't like people and young couldn't guys. he's got a throwback reagan's style -- >>-ish. he gives his toes in the culture war stuff in my thinking is that it's not, it's like being pregnant, you can't be halfway there. you're either in a culture war and talking about critical race theory, anti-trans, anti-gay or

you're not. if you -- >> if you get into that arms race. >> they are in the briar patch. >> the republican candidate who talks the least about woke issues, don trump. >> i now. also not in iowa right now. >> he's asking the same questions. >> focused on federal and criminal indictment. that's the circus in which we live. >> let's go do a show. >> guys, i miss you. come back on. i know you're so busy, but john heileman, jennifer palmieri, mark mckinnon, i adore all of you. cocktails next time. the circus on showtime returns this fall. watch it. coming up, fran drescher, beloved actor, comedian, and president of the creed screen actors guild joins me to discuss the massive strike that is about to cripple hollywood. stay with us. >> this is a moment of history that is a moment of truth.

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shingles. some describe it as an intense burning sensation or an unbearable itch. this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks. it could make your workday feel impossible. the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. if you're 50 years or older, ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles. this >> is a very big deal, and it weighed heavy on us. but at some point, you have to say no we're not going to take

this anymore. but are we doing? moving around furniture on the titanic? it's crazy. so the jig is up, amptp. we stand tall. you have to wake up and smell the coffee. we are labor and we stand tall. that >> was president screen actors guild, actor fran drescher, this afternoon. she was announcing the union's unanimous decision to strike after four weeks of negotiations with the alliance of motion picture and television producers, after those negotiations failed to reach a deal on a new contract. comcast, that owns nbc's parent company, nbc universal, is one of the company's owned by that. alliance -- pacific time this evening the more than hundred citizens actively represented by the union will join members of the writers guild of america, who have been striking for the

past 72 days for their own contract. this collective action will be the first industry-wide hollywood shutdown in nearly 63 years. joining us now is fran drescher, president of sag-aftra. miss drescher, thank you so much for making time for us this evening. i know you have a lot for us. i'll get right to it. two weeks ago you recorded this saying the union was having extremely productive negotiations with the studios. can you tell us what transpired between then and now that is leading sag to strike? >> well, i think that we're dealing with a lot of peripheral issues that seem to be going well and so i guess naively i figured it would continue to go that way. but as we got closer to the core issues, it seemed like we were either being stonewalled or were further and further apart from coming into any kind of meeting of minds. and that came as a real disappointment to me.

i didn't expect it. and i really feel profoundly saddened that we got to this point. i wasn't really, i mean, we did everything we could to avert a strike, including extend by 12 days in an unprecedented amount of time and we really had to convince the membership that in earnest we thought that we would be able to carve deeper inroads and that was why we felt that if we could only extend a little longer that maybe we could avert a strike. in fact, they didn't come to the table that often. they canceled a lot of meetings. i thought maybe they were duking it out behind closed doors, and they were actually gonna come back with something of substance that was meaningful and boy did i get a surprise.

because we've got bunkus, basically. and i think we were duped to allow for more promotion of summer movies before we struck. >> wow. can we talk a little bit about the sticking points? i know the union is asking for better pay. they want residuals on streaming. and there are some concerns about artificial intelligence. can you talk at all about what is most troublesome to you about the latest bid from the studios? >> definitely everything that you have mentioned. artificial intelligence is a threat to workers around the world. what we are doing here, the eyes of the world are watching. we happen to be able to get a lot of interest because of the celebrity component of our labor force. but that doesn't mean that what is happening to us is unique.

and everybody is watching to see what happens because artificial intelligence and the pursuit of greed by big business is systematically cutting labor out of their livelihoods, and we see that happening since the introduction of streaming as well as all different kinds of things, that a. i. and digital has imposed on our industry. basically the entire business model has changed, and there is still just thinking that we're going to be satisfied with incremental changes from a contract that was forged in 1960, and it no longer applies. it's a completely different game. and so that became a mounting problem, and when you talk about what the journeyman actor, the journeyman performance,

that is the majority of our members, who are just working class people trying to get jobs to feed their family and to pay their rent. this is the people that we are really going to the mat for because they are getting hurt the worst and getting marginalized to an extent where it that it cannot be tolerated anymore. it's imperative that we don't settle for a proposal that is a minimum which essentially ends up paying those people less than what we made in 2020, in real money. and that's what supposed to be satisfied now? until through 2026? it's insanity. those are the only things.

the old contract was based off of shows like the nanny that had great longevity and a long tale of revenue and that was the name of the game. and everybody above the line, up and down the ladder, prospered from it. but now, with streaming, it's not like that anymore. it's in a vacuum. you are in a box. . you are walled in. and there is no tail of revenue to follow. and there's not even based on what it used to be based off, which was eyeballs and ad dollars. now it's based off of subscriptions. so you don't even get the amount of episodes that we used to get. i used to do 28 episodes. now you're lucky if you get ten. eight. how do you make a living on that? >> i hear you on the changing nature of the industry. it bears mentioning that the

writers guild is also striking for many of the same reasons, the disruption in the industry, the studios often say the disruption in industry is making them rethink the revenue streams. i mean, how do you see your goals and the writers'goals dovetailing? do you think that your strike is going to help them achieve their ends? i know there has been some reporting at least from one studio executive who said the studios are determined to, quote, break the writers guild of america. are you guys gonna be there to support them? are you working hand and fist? >> let me just say that for anybody to say that shows the arrogance and complete disregard in this respect for a community that contributes so much to the industry upon which they prosper. it's just unconscionable, the complete disrespect to the people that contribute so much.

and we are experiencing it, as well. i thought they would come to the table and really want to make a deal. but that was not the case. being stonewalled and being faced with the kind of resistance, that's almost irrational. it's not just about money. there are things that they want to have our background performers work one day for and get scanned for ai and then they own the likeness of the person digitally, and they can use them over and over again. what is going to happen to that hardworking background person? they're going to be out of business. this is the kind of thing that is happening all over the world. >> the issues that are being brought up are so novel and yet in some ways the struggle is the same as it ever was. fran drescher, president of sag-aftra, thank you so much for your time tonight.

>> that's why we have unions. because people don't do the right thing. >> it is why we have organized labor in this country. thanks for joining us this evening. appreciated. we will be right back. i'm jayson. i'm living with hiv and i'm on cabenuva.

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here and that's our show for this evening. now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, alex. it was so great to see you get the band back together tonight. john and jen and ringo and -- >> and george. >> please make it a regular thing. >> i think i will. i think it was too good. hopefully our audience will say the same but it's like a family reunion only minus the meatloaf and the drama. >> by the way, directorially,