everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian, i'll be back in the chair tomorrow, two pm eastern. symone starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> greetings. you are watching symone on msnbc. i'm charles coleman junior, in first symone. this week, with house republicans with voting up a routine defensive spending will with controversial antiabortion, anti-trans, and anti-diversity amendments. we'll look at the potential impact on our military and national security, along with what happens next, when congresswoman sarah jacobs from california, who's on the house arms service committee joins the conversation. and, republican presidential candidates lean into that our culture war issues at the

conservative summit in iowa, with one notable exception. front runner donald trump missing in action. why he skipped it, and whether it helps his competitors who want to win over evangelical voters. plus, hollywood on strike. why screen actors are joining rioters on the picket line. how long might it take for the industry to get back up again? and when might you start to notice that your favorite shows and new movies won't be there? i've charles coleman junior. we have a lot to talk about. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> republicans are drafting u.s. service members into their culture wars. the national defense authorization act, or ndaa is a yearly defense spending bill passed by congress.

for decades, its passage has been bipartisan, and mostly routine. it includes military pay raises, and says defense policies among other things. but on friday, the ndaa only narrowly made it through the house after a laundry list of controversial amendments were added. instead of helping us target our adversaries, these amendments took aid at reproductive and gender-affirming health care. along with the diversity and inclusion programs that make america's military stronger. house leadership on both sides of the aisle responded as you would expect. no surprise there. here is house speaker kevin mccarthy. in minority leader hakeem jeffries in what they had to say. take a listen. >> a military cannot defend themselves if you train them in woke. we don't want disneyland to train our military. we want our men in the military to have every defense possible. that's what this does. >> maga republicans have

hijacked a bipartisan bill that is essential to our national security, and they've taken it over, and weaponized it in order to jam their extreme right wing ideology down the throats of the american people. >> now the bill heads to the senate, where many of the amendments are almost certain to be rejected by the slim democratic majority. this almost ensures that the current version of the bill is going to fail. but will congressional republicans give up their culture war fixation with women's bodies, gender identity, and all things woke, even if it means our defense department keeps running smoothly as a result? unfortunately, recent events indicate that that may be a no. >> take republican senator and armed services committee member tommy tuberville of alabama for example. he has literally blocked hundreds of military

appointments that usually sail through congress. what's his reason? well, a department of defense policy that allows for paid time off, along with travel and lodging reimbursement for service members seeking abortion. let's talk about this. to be clear, there are members of the military who are putting their bodies on the line, and yet senator tuberville's opposition to bodily autonomy has now left the position of marine corps commandant, the highest ranking officer in the marines, empty for the first time in literally 150 years. so what did these republican antics mean for the a.d.a. and national security? well, here with the latest is nbc news reporter julia jessica. hi julia. house republicans emphasis on culture wars in this bill seems really juxtaposed with their usual importance on a strong military and defense season. how are republicans senators

with much larger constituencies navigating this conflict? >> charles, you bring up a great point. that bill in the house passed narrowly. 2:19 to 2:10, with four republicans crossing over, and for democrats crossing over to vote basically in line with their smaller constituencies within their districts. we saw moderates in swing districts really key in on what their smaller base wants. as you mentioned, senators, they have to appeal to a full -- . typically, under speaker mccarthy's leadership in the house, because he has such a slim majority, the house freedom caucus really honed in on these culture war issues, it really pushes him around a bit on these topics. because they have the power to do that. now in the senate, minority leader mitch mcconnell has typically shied away from those culture war issues. as you mentioned, the senate operates a bit differently.

there are a lot more senators, more focus on the defense aspect. on making sure the military is still running smoothly. you see that in some of their reactions to senator tuberville's hold on this military nomination. so in the senate, you can probably imagine more willing. mr. compromise. and that compromised virgin is going to go back to the house, where you have house freedom caucus chairman scott perry saying that his members wouldn't give into a compromise. it'll be a little bit of a different ball gown ballgame in the senate, charles. >> we're talking about a lot of amendments here. i think at last count there was somewhere around 80 different amendments that had been added to the ndaa. do you have any sense of what is actually going to make it into the final bill? what might in terms of their priorities? >> we mentioned earlier some of the more controversial amendments on dei initiatives, prohibiting funding for trans health care, service members, and funding for abortion related expenses.

and in a democratic-controlled senate senate, those are not likely to survive. an interesting amendment that's going to be added in the senate the, majority leader chuck schumer, and senator, republican senator mike rounds announced on friday they plan to add an amendment that would look at declassifying government records related to ufos. that could make its way in there. another space to watch is representative marjorie taylor greene. she was originally a no on the house bill, in change for voting yes when mccarthy offered a spot on that conference committee that would reconcile the differences between the two bills. she tried and failed to add an amendment stripping the bill of funding for ukraine. arguing she wants that in a separate bill. now that is not likely something that senators will agree on. they have been pretty bipartisan in their support of ukraine. but she is a hard no. not with any funding of ukraine is in the final bill. those are the few spaces i'd

say to watch as the house and senate ash out these differences charles. >> all right, nbc news reporter julia just sir. thank you so much. joining me now is democratic congresswoman, from the great state of california and house arms service members serge akins. welcome congresswoman, so glad to have you. >> many of these amendments are not going to be enacted because of the democratic senate. let's get right into it. what are republicans going to do in order to reconcile this notion of culture wars and their impact on what is in about of national security with the department of defense. >> you know, i am so incredibly disappointed that my republican colleagues have hijacked this traditionally bipartisan bill to put in their wish list of far-right extreme at the expense of our service members. you know i represent sam higgo, the biggest military community in the country. i can tell you i am not getting

phone calls for my constituents about drag shows, i'm not getting phone calls from my constituents about dei. i get phone calls from my constituents about the fact that they can't find or afford housing. childcare waitlist are 4000 people long. they can't afford food. you know, in san diego alone, 45,000 members of the military -- visit the food bank every month. instead are focusing on what really matters for a national security to politicize our military. >> i notice as weaker mccarthy said that we can't have a successful military with disney training our troops. i don't know if any situation where disney is actually training our troops. i want to ask you, how much of what we're talking about here with republicans is just really virtue signaling to their base? and how much of it is really about an actual concern to members of our armed forces and their families, and their readiness to actually defend our country? >> like i said, my constituents,

which are the biggest military community in the district, these are not things are calling me about. so i do think this is a lot about hijacked a spell, and make it their extreme far-right wish list. actually, to the detriment of the readiness of our military. we are having a recruitment and retention shortage right now. banning gender affirming care for people and their dependents, not making it so female service members can get their health care they need, why would anyone decide to go into the military fitness they would have less rights as a service member than they do is a civilian? >> you raise a great point about the ability of the u.s. forces being able to recruit if these policies are passed. i want to talk to you very quickly about four of your democratic colleagues who voted in favor of this bill. what do you say to them? we've been talking about republicans the entire time. but we have some democrats who actually did side with them.

so what do you say? >> you know, i had long conversations with many of my colleagues. i know voting against the defense bill is really difficult for a lot of folks. they believe in supporting our military, as we all do. and they want to make sure that they are bringing support home to their communities. many of which our military communities. i know this was a really tough call for a lot of our colleagues. i'm grad that the vast majority of the democratic congress voted against this bill. that would take away the rights of our service members. congresswoman, very quickly. we have an amendment that is actually targeting the dei program in the department of defense. of course this comes just after the supreme court exempted military academies in its ruling banning race submissions, race conscious admissions. when you're talking about this, how important is it that we have context around understanding the dei and then when, in the pushback that is having? >> look charles, i know you

know better than most how important having these kinds of programs are in the workplace. especially in our military. we have a very diverse military. we want a military that reflects the united states, and to do that we have to make sure that everyone when they come in gets support. but i also think what people miss is that this is also about our national security. because we're sending our service members to other countries. we're asking them to partner with militaries from other countries. they need to know how to work with and engage with the societies and people who are different from themselves. this is actually a key component of what we should be training our service members to make them effective in the battlefield. >> california congresswoman stare jacobs. thank you. coming up, former president trump has come off another bad legal week. but now he's reaching into his same old bag of tricks. how he is trying to delay the trial in federal classified documents case.

until possibly after the 2024 election. we're looking at how all of that may work out for him. but first, just elaine joins us with today today's other big stories. jessica. >> hi charles. thank you, this afternoon we're keeping a close eye on the hot weather, in the word of the day's extreme. nearly a third of americans are suffering under yet another potentially deadly heat wave expected to stretch into next week. phoenix arizona saw its 15th straight day of 110 degrees or more in the high temperature and famously hot dunns valley was forecast to hit 126 degrees. also much of southern europe is bracing for the hottest temperatures ever recorded on the continent. that's according to the european space agency. nations from -- sweltering under dangerous conditions. temperatures in sicily potentially reaching over 118 degrees fahrenheit. back here in the u.s. alabama police are searching for a woman who vanished thursday night after calling 9-1-1 to report a child on the side of a

highway. police say 25-year-old carly russell also called a family member who then lost contact with russell during the call, but that line stayed open. police then found russell's car, and some of her belongings, but no side of her or the child. a witness then recorded possibly seeing a gray vehicle with a man standing outside russell's car. i'm jessica layton, charles is back with more symone coming up after the break. after the break. imagine you're doing something you love.

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trump's legal troubles are cascading into an avalanche. he is doing everything he can to stop what's coming. a special counsel jack smith gears up for a criminal trial in the classified documents case, trump's lawyers are pitching a literal hail mary to try and delay indefinitely the case beyond the 2024 election if they can. in response to this, jack smith filed a blistering opposition, arguing that the request for a delay has no basis in law. meanwhile, the special counsel is pressing on with his other investigation into january six, and infiltrating trump's inner circle. this new reporting that reveals that trump son-in-law, jared kushner, and a former top aide hill hicks, hope hicks, testify before federal grand jury. prosecutors are reportedly trying to nail down whether trump admitted he lost the 2020

election. now, for anybody who is keeping count at home, these are just the federal investigations into the former president. so let's talk about what's going on in georgia. this week to grand ronde fulton county were seated to decide on potential charges to trump's election meddling. the final decision is expected before september. it's going to be an interesting summer. trump is already gearing up for these legal fights. his attorneys have now petitioned georgia supreme court to invalidate a jury report, and to disqualify -- finalist for investigating him. here to dig into all of this is my friend joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney and current msnbc legal analyst. joyce, let's start with trump's request for an indefinite delay in florida. the trump appointed judge, georgia judge cannon, she has made questionable rulings in the presidents favor in the

past. what do you think will be the outcome here? >> well charles, as you know, having looked at the law, something that trump's lawyers apparently didn't do, there's only one outcome that the judge can engage in here. the speedy trial act requires her to set a trial date. there is no option of just letting it go, and seeing how the discovery ends up, and waiting maybe a year or two down the road and setting a trial date. the law says she has to set one. jack smith has offered a december date. he has justified that schedule. it will be up to judge cannon, and her discretion to set whatever date she sees fit. but she must set one. >> now joyce, we know donald trump is currently under investigation, in a number of different jurisdictions. there may be more indictments coming. can you explain to viewers how that could potentially impact the schedule, not only a florida, but with respect to the other cases that he's dealing with, if in fact he becomes indicted elsewhere? >> right. so when you have a defendant

who you're looking at, who you perhaps have under indictment in your district, or in your county, and they're indicted in other places, there has to be a level of coordination. because the defendant can't be physically entering courtrooms at once. typically, and perhaps my experience is one-sided here, because i do come out of federal prosecution, very often a deal will be struck between prosecutors and judges to let the federal case go first. federal cases tend to move a little bit more quickly. sentences often tend to be a little bit longer. so there can be incentives for a lot of different reasons to let federal cases go first. >> now let's pivot and talk about the reporting coming out of the new york times. there's a report saying that a trump employee was warned of charges in the classified documents case. now, this is usually, as we know is former prosecutors, a strategy that is intended to flip some of the lower level players in the case. do you think that jack smith is

going to be successful here? >> so this is a very interesting question charles. because typically, if you have a low level employee who's looking at a significant amount of time in jail, it is a very clear choice. you flip to try and either avoid indictment, or to minimize your own exposure and sentencing. but trump has had extraordinary luck over the years in preventing people from flipping against him. and interestingly, there's a lot of intersection between lawyers who represent different people in trump world. there has been reporting for instance in the case of trump's codefendant walt not at that one of trump's -- is paying for his lawyers. we all remember from the january six committee here in cassidy hutchinson, he became a star witness for the january six committee. we feel constraint the advice of the lawyers that the trump count was paying for her. because she did not see herself as having any alternatives. so whether that comes to play

here, there's not been a formal identification of who this individual is. but it looks like someone who would not have the financial wherewithal to stand on their own. and very well, they may be in a situation where they don't flip, even though it's in their own best interest. >> joyce, i have 60 seconds left. we are also learning from the times that prosecutors are asking questions about documents that may have been moved from other trump properties, including the derailed golf club near miami and also jupiter. is it possible we may be looking at an superseding indictment against donald trump? >> we could be. we knew that that grand jury in the southern district of florida continue to work after the indictment was handed down about trump and nada. prosecutors can't continue to use a grand jury to investigate a case that has been indicted. it was clear they were looking at either additional charges, or additional defendants. a superseding indictment that adds more charges, or more

people, it's likely given what we're beginning to see. >> fantastic as always. nbc legal analyst joyce vance. thank you. >> coming up, first it was the rioters, and now hollywood actors are on strike to. up next, why disputes over a.i. technology and pay our driving some of the most recognizable faces in america to shut down the entertainment capital of the world. we will be right back, stay tuned. sta tuned. deli meats fresh. that's why this qb profers the new five meat beast. and this qb profers it. and if we profer it. we know you'll profer it too. are you trying to outspokesperson me? maybe. we have breaking news in

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georgia, where a mass shooting has happened in hampton georgia, which is about 30 miles south of atlanta. and the suspect is still at large. authorities gave a press conference moments ago, and identified the suspect as 40-year-old andrew gilmore, who they consider to be armed and dangerous. we know four adults were killed, three men and one woman. but police have not identified them, yet because they are still notifying their families. we'll keep monitoring, this and bringing the latest developments. turning now to news out of hollywood, where the three most famous are usually lights camera action. but right, now maybe cut the check. the screen actors strike is now in its third day, and they are joining hollywood writers on the picket line. it's the first time in more than 30 40 years that both unions are with workers at the same time. this strike is disrupting productions worldwide, and costing the industry millions

of dollars per day. the gap between the unions and the major studios is fair compensation, as actors seek a new agreement to account for the streaming revolution that has transformed the industry. these actors are fighting for their livelihoods, and for many working actors, the pay cut could mean a loss of their health insurance, or even worse. >> the whole business model has changed. and, if they don't allow us to change the contract, to reflect on the new business model, what are we talking about? we are moving around furniture on the titanic. we are all going to be put out of business. and, it's crazy. >> another huge issue of importance, is the emergence of artificial intelligence. so imagine. this you go to work one day, and your boss scans an image of you, and then tells you, your services are no longer needed here, and what we're going to do is, we're going to use this new scan of you to replace. you well, that is a very real

scenario that the union is trying to fight against. there are reports that during negotiations, the studios allegedly demanded to be able to use a.i. or backup actors, and paid them for one day. but then own their image and likeness forever. studio representative say, that claim is inaccurate. now, i should mention the contrast, the parent company of nbcuniversal, is represented by the alliance of motion picture intelligence -- joining me now is joe, a media reporter for the wall street journal. joe, should actors be concerned about a.i. technology, and how it's been? used >> sure, first, thanks for having me on. and yes, the use of artificial intelligence should be of great concern to actors and writers. technology is coming, technology can't be stopped. it always changes things, it's how that technology is incorporated into these existing businesses and professions that is the issue. and, you raised the issue of

likeness, and actors wanting to be compensated for their likeness. and they want to ensure that their likeness has been isn't taking -- you noted that the alliance has discounted that allegation of what they were proposing. but, it's a real issue, and for the rioters as well, they naturally fear that chatgpt and other forms of a.i. will be used to create scripts, or speed along the process and take money out of their pockets. so, no one is going to be able to slow down the technology bandwagon, but all of these sides do need to find a way to agree on how and when it will be used. and how folks will be compensated for that use. >> now, we've been seeing a lot of very high-profile, recognizable faces. a list actors and such, on the picket lines. but, isn't this really about some of the actors that you don't necessarily see in blockbusters, or hit tv shows. is it isn't that what we're

really talking about? here >> yes, it's really easy of course to look at hollywood and say, oh, poor jennifer lawrence only made 25 million on her last movie. this strike is, for all actors, not that small percentage that of course make a lot of money. money, by the way, that they are justified to based on their performances of their content. and believe me, the companies that make it are breaking even more money. but, for the working actors who often are struggling to get by, and the business models have changed. no one is doubting, that it's a lot tougher for everyone. but, that said, i do think actors and writers have a legitimate concern about how they are compensation models may not be keeping up with how distribution is being viewed. >> and, you just mentioned the business model. so let's talk about streaming, and how that's impacted the industry. for a lot of these actors, streaming was not a thing when the prior contract was negotiated. so, how has that impacted the industry? and what is the union actually

looking to do with respect to, how streaming has engaged in our first consumption of media? >> well, i think there's a lot of concern about streaming residuals, which are the royalties, actors gets from repeated viewings of their programming. that those residuals are still market, but they don't include enough of the percentage of international -- . and those are issues, in fairness, the alliance has been very open about, wanting to race. but, there is also just concerns about the way content is made now. we don't make 26 episode of tv anymore. seasons are shorter, and production schedules are longer. which means,-limited, fewer opportunities for people to work. and so all of these things are affecting the money that creators and rioters get. and, again, that toothpaste isn't going back into the two. but, i don't disagree that perhaps the compensations

models for streaming need to be revisited, as that platform becomes more and more popular. >> okay, so we've got two simultaneous strikes going on at the same. you've got the actors, and the rioters. how long do you think this is going to continue. and, what a lot of viewers going to ask, i'm going to ask you. when is it going to start impacting our viewing habits, and what's available and what's not? >> well, it already has with the writers strike, it's obviously the latest shows, most of them have been re-runs. tv productions, this fall, people who like to watch their shows on network tv are likely to see the impact first. whether it's abbott elementary on abc, or law on order on embassy. those shows will be delayed, if the strike isn't resolved soon. streaming services such as hbo and netflix, they stockpile stuff. so, it may be a little longer. theatrical movies, the same thing. these things are shot way in advance. but they're going to strike if the strike right drags into the

fall, we will notice it in 2024, beyond what we will notice in broadcasting cable tv. >> wall street journal, media and entertainment reporter joe flint, thank you so. much >> >> after the break, republican presidential candidates are going all in, on the culture wars. but, what will that mean, when they have to pivot to the general election voters. political panel joins me next, with answers. with answers

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but whatever you've discussed, it's not just in congress anymore. it's hitting the campaign trail. the fact was on display this week, at the iowa family leadership summit. where half a dozen republican candidates attended. candidates like mike pence, ron desantis, nikki haley, vivek ramaswamy, asa hutchinson, and tim scott all appeared, alongside former fox news host tucker carlson, before 2000 potential caucus goers in the state. joining me now to discuss, is former republican congressman and msnbc political analyst david jolly, along with democratic straight strategist and sirius xm radio host a micha -- welcome to you both. congressman, most of these candidates are diving headfirst into these culture wars, and the playbook during the primaries. but, when you have an eventual winner, does that person is gonna be back in when it comes to trying to pivot around the general election, and larger?

voters >> yeah, i think they are, charles good to be with. you and i think depending on the candidate, that they may be unable to pivot in the general election. look, this is a bunch of republican candidates, speaking to a faith and family crowd in iowa, who in the past has nominated mike huckabee, rick santorum, and ted cruz. none of whom became the republican nominee, nor president. so, we have to recognize the limited appeal of these culture wars, when you move into a broader national race. i do think, if it's worth -- on ron desantis, because he is somebody who has built his entire campaign narrative around culture wars. almost, invented some of these culture wars. and, charles, sometimes we are too late to give a voice to what we are seeing right in front of. us which i think in the low to medium information, face the question about ron desantis's, is he the governor that just hates gay people? because coming all of the anti-lgbt commercial that he recently did, with the marginalizing of the community

and, for his attacks on curriculum and on schools. the quieting of the lgbt community. this might play very well in iowa faith and family conference, but how charles, do you pivot for the general election? there's not a pathway for him to. and i think people see, people of all walks of life, all political persuasions and ideologies, you are either working in good faith towards equity, or you are not. ron desantis is a perfect case of a republican presidential candidate, who right now might be defining himself in the primary, and unable to pivot in the general. >> you know congressman, i have been considering whether because of donald trump's sizable lead over the field, whether some of those people are essentially just trying to do anything they can to gain some momentum among the republican base. but, speaking about former president trump. -- i want to turn to you. look, he is speaking at a turning point action conference in palm beach. he escaped the event in iowa with tucker carlson. what does any of this tell you about his confidence, as the

front runner, in early primary states? >> well i think donald trump is very confident. he acknowledges that he is light years ahead of other candidates in the primary, currently. as it relates to his polling. and he knows where his base lies. he also knows that, sadly, culture wars have landed in certain segments of america. particularly as it relates to the outgrowth of this republican party. the republican party of today is not the republican party of george h. w. bush. it's not the republican party of w. it's other for the party of reagan. it is the republican party of donald j trump. and, i think that is very important for all of us to remember. that though he knows that his polling in iowa is horrible, that's one of the reasons why he skipped that. he also recognizes that his voice still reign supreme. that's why he's leaning in on turning point usa, where we just saw the leader of the set organization, basically attack all black women in power. from ketanji brown jackson to vice president kamala harris, and everyone in between, about how they are unqualified, an educated, and shouldn't get to where they are based on the fact that he simply assumes they are there because of

affirmative action. donald trump is leaning into the anti-dei, the anti-culture wars, the wokeism. because he knows that there is a base for. and sadly, that is the current republican party. >> so, as we're having this conversation, and now we have this collision of ideology and policy experts talking about these extreme amendments that have been added to the nba. in congress, david, talk to me? what is the priority, for republicans? typically, that has been a strong military and, making sure that we have a defense for our country against our adversaries globally. but now, we are actually seeing republican legislatures hold up ndaa appropriations bill, just because of these culture wars. so, where is the importance? here >> yet charles, the national defense authorization act is the department of defense policy bill, that is a behemoth of a policy. bill it has passed congress every year. and historically, republicans

and democrats alike in congress, and in the white house, have agreed on keeping america, strong keeping our troops funded, and ensuring that we have the greatest fighters in the country, armed and ready to protect u.s. interests. what you are seeing in today's republican party though, no longer reflects that. the abandonment of president biden's support of ukraine, which was one of the hotly debated issues in the house -- that we are just going to see lands and territories to vladimir putin, and ignore the territorial challenge we face from an adversary. and then, adding these policy riders. you know, republicans in the house of past policy writers that largely will prevent joe biden from signing this into action. and in the senate, you have just a senator from alabama, saying we're not going to appoint a leadership now, of our leadership forces. this is a reflection of -- having crushed the traditional national defense orthodoxy of the republican party. and, rebuilt it into this narrative, of just grievance populism. it is a terrible chapter for

today's gop. >> it's going to be interesting to see whether the republican voters actually share that same priority. let's listen for a moment to republican congressman eli crane, as he defended an amendment that would ban mandatory instruction on certain raced-based concepts, and policies at the pentagon. >> my amendment has nothing to do with whether or not colored people, or black, people or anybody can serve. okay, it has nothing to do with >> mister speaker. >> or any of that stuff. >> it's been a long time since anybody has been colored around here. but, after democratic congresswoman betty -- asked the congressman's words be stricken from the record. he said, he misspoke, and move to amend his words to, people of color. but the comments have drawn swift backlash from some of his colleagues, including the congressional black caucus. and micha, what are your thoughts? >> they drew a stark rebuke, because they deserved.

this is a trip back to reconstruction, this is a trip back to jim crow. my grandmother grew up in jackson mississippi, and colored, was the term that was used for people who look like you and i, during that course of history. i think that, inasmuch as republicans look to talk about this being post racial, us not eating affirmative action the, more black people not necessarily needing things that came all the civil rights movement. and trying to dismantle those policies and procedures, this goes to show just how much those actions are actually necessary. because, there are far too many people who still dissect and see black people in the same way that they did in the 50s, the same data that in the 30s, in the same way that they did in the 18 hundreds. and honestly, they want to take us back. they're >> my friend, former congressman -- thank you so much. along with siriusxm political analysts amid a -- amazing as usual. coming up next, the ever expanding right-wing war on diversity. how recent actions in both congress and the supreme court or already paving the wait for corporations to ditch the

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subway's now slicing their meats fresh. that's why subway's proffered by this champ. and this future champ. and if we proffer it, we know you'll proffer it too. he's cocky for a nineteen year old. diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts are suffering some significant setbacks of late. this, week a controversial amendment at the national defense authorization act, that passed in the house would got dei programs. dan -- from the department of defense, this comes just as after the

supreme court had decided to strike down the affirmative action in college admissions process. decisions like these from the supreme court, and republican-led house, are paving the way for corporate leaders to weaken, or even abandon altogether, diversity, equity, and inclusion programs. the threat of the -- is very, very real. here to discuss this is author, and inclusion strategist, and my friend amber cabral. amber, thanks so much for joining us. listen, after the murder of george floyd ignited nationwide protests in 2020. we saw companies go above and beyond, and they spent roughly 7.5 billion dollars on dei programs, according to a study by the global market for diversity and inclusion. but, in a more recent report by the washington post, found corporate amendments to those initiatives have declined by four and a half percent. what do you think about this

decline? what does it tell you, what siri action? >> there are a couple things i believe are important to keep in mind. first, let's just be honest with ourselves. a lot of the commitments that were made in 2020 were made in haste, they were made without correct information. they were made without having any real appliance. so, what has happened is now, companies are in the position of having to reevaluate, what can i actually do. what does the data actually say. and so, in some cases, what you are seeing is organizations sitting back to say, what is the right way to do this and be impactful. but you do also have some of what i think most of us are concerned, about which is a backpedalling. a, oh, this isn't taught anymore, so i'm going to back away from, it because people aren't as concerned about. it >> so, given that structure that you just identified, amber. how is it that we are supposed to measure the success of the ei initiatives? >> what are the metrics that we should be using >> to say yes, this investment is actually in earnest. versus, this is just not

working. >> well, there's a couple things to keep in mind. the first thing is, for most organizations, you have a primary investment in terms of your dollars and your time, should be with your people. so, what is the hiring spirits? are we -- are we thoughtful about how we recruit talent? are we retaining talent, are we investing dollars in our -- ? >> things like >> that are really where your money is going to get the most value for a corporation, an impact how the culture of that organization is. on the second level, when you decide that you are going to invest externally, which means organizations can, should, and do. you should be delivered about where those dollars are, what communities do you want to unpack. those should be goals before you just kind of run on, saying okay, who needs money. and so, i think what has happened is that policy -- in big dollar. not what we haven't seen -- great plans for them. so, when organization is making a decision about where to put the money, they should be looking at their own goals. hey, we want to make an impact in our disability community. we like to make an impact in

the folks who are buying, and have access to our products. we like to diversify our talent pipelines. your dollars that you are getting from a dei perspective should align with those goals. what happened in 2020 is, folks to started from money out, and as long as you said you were a black organization, there was a lot of this management of those funds, both internally and externally. which results in a lot of people not getting the money that they should have gotten, and a lot of organizations ending up just deciding that it wasn't a worthwhile effort. >> well amara, got about 90 seconds left, you really have to ask you about this. there was a really, all over social media after -- reported on the exiting of about six black women, leaving dei and initiatives at different companies. so, how has this exodus concerned you, about the film and television. like, what's the commitment? there is there a reason to be concerned, or is this just part of the course in the industry, in terms of the turnover? >> i absolutely think it's a reason to be concerned.

one hunted percent, when you see a large exodus of people, who are all the same type of identity. that lets you know that there is not enough ed and flow around experience around making sure that we are supporting those folks. so, i think it's a reason to be concerned. i do also think we have to pay attention to the -- some folks left the, rules because they found the rather opportunities. some folks are leaving the role, because the role is. adding some folks -- into the role. ready and so, we do want to make sure that we are looking. because otherwise, we end up kind of mom it demoralized, and i think we actually are seeing progress in some ways that we. are so, we have to balance that. so, it is absolutely a reason for concern. but, maybe not as urgent, in the way that i think people have thought that all these folks are gonna get hired, because that's not what happened. >> diversity and inclusion strategist amber cabral, always great to talk to you, thanks for joining. that's gonna do it for me, thank you for watching symone on this saturday. my name is charles coleman junior. you had to catch more me, and the legal analyst right here on

msnbc. and, the host of the charles coleman podcast, a special thank you to simone sanders -- and current tire team for allowing me to sit in today. if you want more simone, you can catch her right here on msnbc weekends, at four pm eastern, and it anytime over on peacock, where there are more episodes on msnbc hub each week. and for more the show, including behind the scenes videos you won't see anywhere else, find us on instagram, twitter, and of course tiktok. politicsnation with reverend al sharpton starts right after this break, thanks so much for tuning in. tuning in. subway refreshed everything. and now, they're slicing their meats fresh. that's why this pro proffers the new grand slam ham. so does this pro. i just love a grand slam... ham.

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