>> that does it for me. >> that does it for me. i am alicia menendez. i am alicia menendez. thank you for spending part of thank you for spending part of your saturday with us. your saturday with us. be sure to follow video on twitter, on instagram and on be sure to follow video on twitter, on instagram and on tiktok at alicia on msnbc -- tiktok at alicia on msnbc -- i'm going to be back for more american voices -- here tomorrow, live from miami, for more american voices. but for now, i handed over to my colleague, michael steele, hello. but for now, i hand it over to my colleague, michael steele. hey, michael. >> miami is not bad. >> i'm getting to see what katie phang is dealing with on the regular, and there is a couch here that are big questions about whether or not she takes naps during commercial breaks. >> look, we know where you are going next, right? to go check out that couch it. it [laughter] >> you know me too well, michael. having a show. >> thank. you good evening, welcome, everyone, to. ayman tonight, trump's ticking time bomb. his associates are now meeting with the special counsel's office, in a new investigation just opened the efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

plus, absolute chaos. that is how one democrat described the house judiciary hearing after republicans double down on unproven conspiracies, and gop hijacking, the annual defense bill is chock-full of amendments to address right-wing cultural agreements, a member of the house armed services committee will respond, and we will get her reaction to senator tommy tuberville's blockade on u.s. abortion promotions, a move that leave this country less safe. i am michael steele, in for free -- be careful if you are claustrophobic. tonight we begin with the walls closing in on donald trump for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, as investigators in both the federal and state levels move towards the final stages of their probes. let's start with the special counsel, jack smith,'s inquiry.

according to reporting from the new york times, cnn, prosecutors recently sat down for hours apparently with both trump's son-in-law, derek kushner, in his former longtime aide, hope hicks. nbc news good from the prosecutor spoke earlier this year to trump's former white house administrator, -- the goal is to establish the ex presidents intent in the days and weeks after the election. according to the times, kushner was asked, quote, about whether mr. trump had privately acknowledged in the days after the 2020 election that he had lost, according to four people briefed on the matter. that line of questioning suggests prosecutors are trying to establish whether mr. trump was acting with corrupt intent as he sought to remain in power, essentially, that his efforts were knowingly based on a lie. evidence that could substantially bolster any case they might decide to bring against mr. trump. also, in recent months, jack smith's team has interviewed

the secretaries of state for pennsylvania, new mexico, and michigan. all three states were targeted by trump and his team's efforts to overturn his election loss. that is important to cnn reporting and that brings us to the end efforts of individual states to hold these election officials accountable. chris hayes announced that she is ramping up this criminal investigation into the so-called fake electors scheme, in which republicans allegedly tried to reverse the states election results by signing in transmitting paperwork falsely declaring donald trump the winner. and in georgia, a judge seated to grand juries this week that are likely to be tasked with deciding whether to bring election interference charges against trump, and his allies in that state. fulton county district attorney fani willis has said that she plans to announce charging decisions during the superior court term that just begin. and surprise, surprise. that was not welcome news to trump, who just filed a

petition into georgia courts seeking to disqualify d.a. fani willis for investigating him for election interference, and two, quash the final report of the special grand jury that would recommend indictments in the matter. joining me now are cynthia lost knee and msnbc legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, former congressman david jolly, msnbc political analyst and former congresswoman, john edwards, and msnbc political analyst and washington columnist. washington post columnist. cynthia, let's begin with you. this is a grits for the mill for prosecutors looking at this. what are the implications of jack smith's team reaching out to all of the secretary of states around the country. does that say something about the idea of this investigation taking a wider scope than we first thought? >> i think we got for a long time the january six

investigation is gonna be very broad because we are up here we are trying to bring the whole fake elector scandal. here is something really important i think our viewers can understand. as jack smith does these interviews, and he asks people like daryl kushner and others what was the president thinking, he doesn't have to think or prove that the president absolutely knew he had lost, and hit evidence that the president said to 15 people i know i lost, and then all this other stuff happened, that is not the corrupt attempt that is required. the intent is that he knew what he's was doing was illegal when he set up a fake elector scandal. set u>> he knew what he was dog was illegal when he sent armed people up to the capitol to interrupt the official proceeding of the counting of the votes. he knew penn state -- pence did not have the power when he tried to pressure him into overturning the election. that is the instant yes to prove. and to the extent you can prove that trump was telling people that he lost the election, great, that is icing on the

cake. but let us not require jack smith, or leave our viewers with the fact that jack smith has to prove already more than asked to prove, because remember, and then i'll be quiet for a second, we already know that the attorney general told him they lost the election. all the credible lawyers in the justice department we lost the election. all the credible lawyers in the white house told him he lost the election. his cybersecurity person told him he lost the election. his campaign manager told him he lost the election. everybody told him he lost the election. so just because jared kushner has gone to the grand jury after he collected his two billion dollars from the saudis and said, no, i think you really one, that does not make it credible, or b, make it relevant. it just means that jack smith has locked him down with his smart grand jury process. >> and so, gianna, i want to pick up on that point, that cynthia raises. what do you think the secretaries of states are saying to jack smith, or will be telling jack smith in that vein?

>> i mean, i think they can share with jack smith what was happening in their states. what was happening with election officials, and election workers. they can share the impact of this false narrative on this narrative to both count their votes and count their electors seated. so i think there is a lot to be shared. it is interesting that jack smith is talking to a number of secretaries of state and other elected officials, and i really think, just crossing the tees and dotting the eyes, to make sure that he has everything that he needs, and i, think as cynthia said it is not a question of proving that trump, in his mind, knew everything that would take place, it is more making sure that you can bolster the story, and i think jack smith this tying up loose

ends to get his case moving forward. >> there was the law, and then there is the politics, chris christie said this week that there is no silver bullet to take out trump. but that the collective weight of all of this legal troubles is having, instead, will make the voters weary of trump, get tired, and want to move on. i do not know about you. show me the evidence of that, because it seems to me that it with sea -- with each indictment, with each allegation, his numbers go, up not down. >> that's exactly right. aspirational thinking from chris christie, and probably quietly, from every other candidate from mike pence to rod desantis, tim scott, nikki haley, and other says that donald trump's legal travails are going to ultimately sink his campaign. we simply have not seen it, so, michael, i think where we see today, there is not a single legal fact to emerge in any of the donald trump madeleine from alvin bragg, to mar-a-lago, to j 6th, to fani willis, that

will change the trajectory of the gop primary. i think the only political question that might have political impact is whether or not there is actually a trial at some point where donald trump is facing a loss of liberty. and at this, point it is really hard to see, cynthia, with no best. it is really hard to see how a trial would occur, and a verdict would be rendered before say, mid march, when the gop primary is actually all summed up. so, worst-case in areas for donald trump is that he's able to push some of these trials into next summer after he has already secured the gop nomination, and it put a question for the american people about donald trump's liberty, or, best-case in aerial for donald trump, pushes all of the trials off into after next november. >> cynthia, i would like you to comment a little bit on that process point, that david raised, but also, i want to get your reaction to what is happening and what came out of arizona this week. a lot of focused has been on watching fulton county down in georgia with baited breath,

waiting for fani willis and her team to take action, but it did come as a bit of a shock, the decisions out of arizona, what do you make of the attorney general's actions there as well? >> >> two things, it should set some sort of a trial date, which will affect the political scheduling, which will affect the timing of the trial in the primary schedule, and my guess would be that judge aileen cannon assess the trial date sometime in february, and then when the trump people ask to have it postponed, she goes ahead and kicks the can down the road. she's put a jersey on in this case, which i think is appropriate for a federal judge. but the jerseys on, and until she takes it off, it proves to me she is going to do his bidding in kicked that can down the road as much as he wants, i had to say it. that is one thing on the scheduling of that. i do think there will be

indictments this summer, in other jurisdictions that will not have such a judge who is biased, but that case will not go to trial, those cases will take it least a year to go to trial, so they will not be in the primary chandler as well. so i don't think we are going to be a trial, david. not before the republican convention. that is one thing. when it comes to arizona, the attorney general belated on have much of a choice. because the prior attorney general had planned fast and loose, had investigation, hid the investigation, then he gave a fake answer about interim report about what the investigation was. so really, she had a moral and political obligation to clean up the record in arizona. i don't think she had a choice. >> she's going forward, i'll be a very slowly. i will say that the january six investigation encompasses everything that she would end up finding, and we'll early investigation information through the january six.

i do think she's doing the right thing, out of the jail choice. >> panel, stick around for, me after the break, we will discuss the new defamation lawsuit against fox. this, one from a trump supporter who claims the network ruined his life. ork ruined his life. ork ruined his life. with a majority of my patience with sensitivity, i see irritated gums and weak enamel. sensodyne sensitivity gum & enamel relieves sensitivity, helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. i'm a big advocate of recommending things that i know work. we used to struggle with greasy messes. now, we just freak, wipe, and we're done! with mr. clean clean freak, conquering messes is that easy. clean freak's mist is three times more powerful, and it works on contact. clean freak, just freak, wipe, done. what do we always say, son?

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blinds about the capitol insurrection has finally come back to haunt the network. and ironically, it is coming from a trump supporter who once

considered himself a loyal viewer. ray epps, a trump supporter who became the focus of right-wing conspiracies after he protested in d.c. on january 6th, has filed a defamation lawsuit against the network and former host tucker carlson for claiming he was an undercover fbi agent who helped provoke the riot that day. the lawsuit argues carlson launched a years-long campaign spreading falsehoods that destroyed the life of epps and his wife. here is just some of the coverage. >> the mysterious figure called ray epps -- >> so, who is ray epps, by the way? ray epps is one of the only people caught on camera that day, encouraging others to break the law. did ray epps -- any contact with any government agency? -- whether ray epps has had any -- in the period before january 6th. >> the lawsuit also says that

fox refused to retract its claims well after fox knew definitively that they were false, and that this evidence of what is legally known as actual malice means epps deserves punitive damages. of course, this comes on the heels of fox's settlement with dominion voting systems, which cost the network -- $787 million for spreading lies about the company's role in the 2020 election. epps just hired one of the lawyers in the dominion case to represent him in his case against fox. oh, it gets juicy. let's bring back my panel. cynthia, let's start with you on this one. dominion was able to prove, through emails and text messages and a whole bunch of other things, that fox knowingly lied to their viewers on their coverage of the election. what do you see here? do you think that that plays out for epps the same way as it did for dominion? >> it is kind of interesting the way it's played. he actually piggybacked on the

dominion suit. because he says, i went to the january 6th because i had been lied to by fox news about the election. so, he pulls in the dominion, basically, settlement, and piggybacks his case on that. and then he has a lower standard. it's much easier for him to prove the defamation because he is not a public figure. so, he has a lower standard of negligence and not actual malice. and he still has an opportunity to get punitive damages. so, it's a pretty interesting lawsuit. because there is so much video evidence of tucker carlson going on and on and on about he somehow was involved with the fbi and orchestrated january 6th, and there is absolutely zero evidence that that is true. and this poor sop of a guy has basically lost his business, lost his home, headed to another state, been threatened repeatedly, so he's got a story to tell. fox -- added to their troubles. they are already looking at the

2. 7 billion dollar lawsuit from smartmatic, and now they have this little additional trouble. >> so, david, the thing that is interesting to me is that it was not just fox and tucker carlson making these claims. you had individuals like ted cruz, marjorie taylor greene also making epps a target. >> yeah. >> this guy is a die hard trump supporter, whose life has been destroyed by the very right-wing conspiracy theories that he was out promoting. shouldn't this be like a cautionary tale for republicans and loyal fox watchers that, guess what? yeah, they could come for you, too? >> you are exactly, right michael. a cautionary tale for different reasons -- politically, republicans are showing that they are not focused on the economy and health care and transportation and ladders of opportunity, like joe biden are, and so they are out of step with the american people. but for fox news, politically, for their financial stability, i think what dominion ushered

in, this question of actual malice, and we saw the 800 million dollar settlement, has really ripped open, if you will, the opportunity for others to go at fox news -- so, rays epps is following a similar trajectory to saying as -- look, as cynthia, he doesn't have to be actual malice in the case of rays epps -- but i will give you a wildcard here on saturday night, michael steele, and it's this, i think hunter biden will crush fox news financially. i think what dominion showed us, the discovery involved in dominion is that actual malice has occurred within the editorial decisions of fox news. women got an 800 million dollar settlement. smartmatic wants theirs. reyes once there is. who had a targeted more than anybody else? i guarantee you discovery editorial notes emails and conversations that they have engaged in actual malice against hunter biden, the most judicious irony of all of this would be if hunter biden, joe

biden's son, is the one that cripples fox news financially. >> where the hunted becomes the hunter. [laughter] , i love saturday night! donna, i think fox should be a bit more careful after epps sued them for defamation. but the next day, the network had on republican congressman troy nehls who had just insisted the fbi should arrest epps during a judiciary committee hearing. you know, fox has to know what it's doing here, right, or not? >> i don't know what they know, but they better get out a really big checkbook because they're gonna pay heavily. right next was a private citizen. we heard fbi director chris wray on capitol hill this week talking about this conspiracy, and dismissing it as though the fbi, you know, has planted people, you know, how can the crowd to try to rile them up. he said it was completely

ridiculous. i mean, it was embarrassing that as a chief law enforcement officer, kris wright was being asked these questions, but with respect to ray epps, who is a guy who's a true believer. he was a die hard believer and he's been dragged through the mud and he's gonna have to pay. >> don, i'm gonna have to stick with you for a moment. because i'm gonna circle back to the conversation we had last segment and the reporting that jared kushner, at least a far, and whole picks have talked with the special counsel's team, people out there acting like this could be a gotcha moment, this aha moment for trump. is there any reason that you think this people, given their connection and relations, return on trump, and would offer up incriminating detrimental evidence to the prosecutors against trump. i don't know where people think that somehow they're gonna get this smoking guns for many on the lower individuals. >> no, i don't think so.

and i will tell you, i think that between the january 6th transcripts, and now the testimony before grand juries, that jack smith has a lot to work with. he's got them on the record in a couple of instances. if it turns out that this goes to trial, he might have them on the record again. and there is every likelihood that if there is some slip up, that they could be in real trouble. so, i think that right now there is no smoking gun. it is about putting the pieces together to develop the case. and i think that is what he's doing, is doing it very methodically, covering all of his bases, and making sure that there won't be any surprise down the line. >> so, cynthia, fox has settled lawsuits related to lies about dnc staffer seth rich and dominion. the network has also been forced to pay fired producer

abby grossberg 12 million dollars who claimed harassment and being coerced into providing false testimony related to dominion. do you expect this latest lawsuit to end the same way for fox? >> i would expect that it's a settlement, and i'm sure that donna edwards is right, they bettter get their checkbook out. does seem to be the way it is going and it's not just fox. tucker carlson is being sued individually. so, we will see if that does not inspire him to be a little bit more on. as i would doubt it. my mother always that people don't change after they are four and i would guess tucker carlson -- >> just a little bit older than four, i think. david -- >> or not -- [laughter] >> tucker carlson hosted a presidential forum in iowa with a roster that included six prominent presidential candidates. during the forum, former vice president mike pence said, quote, i have never used the word insurrection. over the last two years i have never used that. it was a riot that took place that day. that is the same mike pence whose life was in grave danger on january 6th.

how alarming is it that carlson is still able to get these folks to come out and say the craziest things when it comes to january 6th? >> yeah. >> and of all the people who should know better, it is mike pence. what is going on with his going along with carlson on all of that? >> yeah, look, i think it demonstrates that tucker carlson's ideology and his command of the party is very real, more real than mike pence. i think the two takeaways from iowa's faith and family conference is this growing narrative, number one about ron desantis. is he the governor that hates gay people? that is just a question that is in the information space, that is his identity. secondly, this experience of mike pence was interesting on two fronts. by suggesting first that, as the senate president he didn't have a choice, and he needed to certify, and secondly by suggesting that it is right to defend ukraine and fight back against the encroachment of vladimir putin, mike pence on those two issues was run out of

iowa. he was run out of town. and i think, for you and i, michael, in particular, that is a time stamp of today's republican party. tucker carlson is the vessel and the message for it. but what we saw in substance was a republican party that looks nothing like it did 20 years ago. >> amen -- cynthia alksne, former congressman david jolly, and former congresswoman donna edwards, thank you all so much for joining us tonight. up next, i will be joined by congressman hank johnson of the house judiciary committee to discuss that insane hearing with fbi director christopher wray, filled with right-wing conspiracies. ♪ ♪ ♪ our heritage is ingrained in our skin. and even when we metamorphosize into our new evolved form, we carry that spirit with us. because you can take alfa romeo out of italy. but you best believe,

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justice. so, i guess i will just show it to you. >> when the court says the fbi misled, that is a nice way of saying they lied. >> how many individuals were either fbi employees, or people that the fbi had made contact with, were in the january 6th entry of the capitol? i'm gonna make the assumption that there was more than, one more than five, more than ten. >> i will say, this notion that somehow the violence at the capitol on january 6th was part of some operation orchestrated by fbi sources and agents is ludicrous. >> your job is to review what they do! your job is to protect the american people from the tyrannical fbi, storming the home of an american family! >> i could not disagree more with your description of the fbi as tyrannical. >> you preside over the fbi that has the lowest level of trust in the fbi's history! people trusted the fbi more when j edgar hoover was running the place that when you are.

>> respectfully, congressman, in your home state of florida, the number of people applying to come work for us and devote their lives working for us is up over 100%. >> the american people fully understand that there is a two-tiered justice system that has been weaponized to persecute people based on their political beliefs, and that you have personally -- worked to weaponize the fbi against conservatives. >> i would disagree with your characterization of the fbi, and certainly your description of my own approach. the idea that i am biased against conservatives seems somewhat insane to me, given my own personal background. >> that was just a small taste of the cuckoo for cocoa puffs crazy that dominated that hearing. i think congressman eric swalwell summed it up best. >> this hearing has turned into absolute chaos. i yield back. >> joining me now is democratic congressman hank johnson of georgia.

he is a member of the house judiciary committee. congressman, how did you and your democratic colleagues approach this hearing with christopher wray, knowing you would have to contend with so much crazy, the accusations, the unsubstantiated allegations? and i wonder if john durham's time before your committee last month provided you with some kind of a blueprint of how to approach this. >> thanks for having me, michael steele. and we have known all along what the playbook was going to be for republicans during the 118th session of congress. it is not to work on behalf of making life better for the american citizens. but instead, it is to tear down our governments, tear down our agencies. it's to muck up the fbi and the department of justice in the eyes of the american people, trying to taint the jury pool

because they knew that donald trump would have to face justice -- and so, they want to take that jury pool, they want to stoke fear and intimidation in the hearts and minds of fbi employees, witnesses against donald trump, and anybody else, like ray epps. they don't want -- people don't want to have that kind of treatment. and so, they are trying to intimidate people, so that they can save donald trump, get him reelected, and then go about the further destruction of our democracy, which makes no sense to me. but that is what they are doing. >> congressman, over and over in this hearing, we heard republicans musing about defunding different law enforcement agencies across the government. they talk about this all the time now on the campaign trail now as well. how seriously are democrats taking this rhetoric as we are looking at appropriations and other things that are coming

before the congress? >> oh, it is dead serious, michael. they want to do everything they can to disembowel the department of justice and particularly the fbi. they want to neuter it. they want to de-clang it. they want to remove its ability to hold people accountable through the civil criminal justice system. and it is mind-boggling what they are trying to do to our democracy. this is our democracy. this is our government -- government employees are our neighbors. they are our friends. they are people of goodwill. but they are demonizing those people. and they are trying to, actually destroy our democracy when we've got so many things that we need to be looking at right now. there is rising antisemitism, gun violence out of control.

there's artificial intelligence on the horizon, really at our front door at this point. there's so many things we need to be doing to make life better for the american people and create a more secure environment for them and our children to come up in. but instead, these republicans are trying to protect donald trump and reelect a mad man. >> and so, at that point of elections -- and congressman, you know this well, i know it as a former party official -- when americans go to the polls to vote, they expect the party that they put in power to serve their interests, to provide for them, to help them and deal with the big issues that they are concerned about. what did this hearing do for republican voters? and all voters, for that matter, in terms of providing for them? how much of this circus helped the american people at the end of the day? >> i will tell you, michael, i don't think that it persuaded a

lot of americans one way or the other. i think most americans understand what the republicans who are in charge of the house are trying to do. they understand that nothing is being done to make life better for them. and the people who they are feeding this red meat to are further empowered to believe in this cause. but unfortunately for them i don't think it accounts for a majority of the american people. and i don't think they've convinced many people to come their way on their efforts to destroy the government and to destroy democracy in the process. and i don't think they persuaded a lot of people to get on the donald trump bandwagon, which, clearly, they are on and driving, with reckless abandon. >> indeed, indeed. congressman hank johnson thank you very much for joining me tonight. still to come --

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inspired by the actions of republican senator tommy tuberville. since february, tommy tuberville has been using a hold to block the promotion of generals and admirals, over his opposition to the defense department policy of paying for service members'travel costs for abortions. he promises to keep the hold going until the pentagon reverses its policy. and while a hold can prevent the senate from confirming

nominees, it certainly can significantly slow down the process. and it has been effective. -- to date, tuberville has delayed more than 200 promotions. in a hearing this week, president biden's nominee for chairman of the joint chiefs of staff told the senate armed services committee that these holds will affect military readiness because less experienced military personnel are now being forced to temporarily take up leadership -- --

and we don't know what's gonna happen. the idea that we are injecting into fundamental foreign policy decisions, what in fact, as a domestic social debate on social issues is bizarre. i don't ever recall that happening. >> joining me now to discuss is democratic congresswoman maryland strickland of washington state. she's a member of the house armed services committee and sits on the military personnel subcommittee. welcome, congresswoman. good to see you. let's start with the defense bill vote. the house now really passed a bill that would ban the secretary of defense from paying for all reimbursing service members for abortion will it'd expenses, and gender affirming care, what is your reaction to seeing these attempts, these ongoing attempts, to strike down reproductive health care, and health care at large from within the military itself? >> it is another example of how

irresponsible republicans have become because they are afraid to stand up to the most extreme elements of their party. in our committee during marca, we passed a bill, 58 to 1. it had broad bipartisan support. and with the national defense authorization act, that is typically a bipartisan effort. but after the amendments were added on to it, these things democrats could not vote for. taking away women's right to choose. trying to disco destroy diversity, equity, and inclusion, saying that the military should never preserve those things on promoting people. and so, i think what happened is that the bill became so contaminated that democrats simply could not vote for. >> the ndaa has historically been that must pass a bill. no one really second guessed that. this time around, however, it is indeed overloaded with cultural war amendments, et

cetera. does it even have a chance in the senate at this point? >> the good news is that the senate will take a look at their version, and decide what they think they want to pass. and it is something that will come back to the house. the senate now has this in its hands and they are working on their version of the ndaa, and so, we will see what comes back. we had a clean version coming out of our committee. again, bipartisan support, 58 to 1. it was something we were able to come to an agreement on, in compromise, and all these contaminants get added to this bill. and it is just irresponsible. it basically says to service members, we don't respect you. we don't respect your diverse backgrounds. by the way, if you are a woman, we don't think you have a right to make a personal, private decision about your reproductive health care. >> i want to pivot to senator tuberville. lieutenant general andrew rolling said on monday that tuberville's blockade is irresponsible and dangerous. he pointed to colonel montague should now be getting paid as a general but he's not because of

the delay in his promotion. that is just one of many examples, congresswoman. but talk to us, talk us through, if you could, the impact this is having on service numbers directly. >> to your point earlier, over 250 promotions are on hold right now. it could be up to 640 by the end of this year. and it is completely irresponsible. it compromises national security. it compromises global security. and it creates all this chaos. but if you come back to what's happening within the republican party today, it started when kevin mccarthy was trying to get that gavel. they allowed the extreme elements to take over their party, and now, they are beholden to them, and they don't have the courage to stand up to them. and this is one example, as biden said, moderate democrats -- go ahead. >> go ahead, finish your point. >> so, moderate republicans, people who have common sense, people hope by the way got elected in swing districts, it's time for them to stand up

and say, this is about protecting the american people. it's about national security. it's about making sure that our military is the strongest. and doing this and delaying this because he wants to have a war about a woman's right to travel across state lines to get access to abortion, that's just irresponsible. by the way, that right to travel across state lines is protected by the u.s. constitution. >> yeah, that pesky little constitutional thing. senator tuberville has also said that these blocks, however, in his promotion, should have minimal effect on service members ability to lead. what's your response to that? and i guess at the bottom line, what is the senator fundamentally misunderstanding, or just outright missing altogether? >> i don't think he's missing anything. this is very calculated, and it's part of the extreme vision of members of the gop who want to have a national ban on abortion, and want to insert their personal values on the greater good. again, this is going to affect military readiness.

it's going to affect, actually, recruiting and retention. so many different things, and creating all this uncertainty in the military ranks is the opposite of national security. it's the opposite of keeping a safe. it's the opposite of saying that you respect the people who fight for us every single day. >> congresswoman marilyn strickland, thank you so much for your time. much appreciated. after the break -- it's only the beginning of tommy tuberville's terrible antics. this week, you will never guess what he said about white nationalists. well yeah, you probably could. but that's next. ♪ ♪ ♪ subway's slicing their turkey fresh like on the titan turkey. piled high with double the cheese and more meat. i proffer freshly sliced turkey. it's my favorite mouth guard flavor. mmmm. now available at subway. the sub, not the mouth guard. at typical insurance, you're just another senior. that's the third health insurance commercial with seniors at a farmers market. right? don't get me wrong i love a fresh heirloom, but it's like those companies think we're all the same. that's why i chose humana.

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he's cocky for a nineteen year old. >> can we talk for a moment. what's wrong with tommy tuberville. that is the kindest question i can ask after the republican senator down this week refusing to define white nationalists as racists. back it may, tuberville was asked about efforts to remove what nationalists from the u.

s. military. at the time, he said they should not be barred from serving. in fact, he said the group, quote, i called him americans. this week he was asked to clarify those insane comments. >> and just to be clear, you agree that white nationalists should not be serving in the u.s. military? is that what you are saying? >> if people think that white nationalists are racist, i agree with that. >> >> a white nationalist is someone who believes that the white race is superior to other races. >> well, that is some people's opinions. >> that is not an opinion. >> what's your opinion? >> my opinion of a white nationalist, to me, is an american -- >> i'm so glad he clarified himself. after instant outrage tuberville walk that all back, finally conceding that white nationalists are by definition racist. but he could not just leave it there. he had to defend himself,

claiming that his time as a football coach, somehow, somehow made him not racist. >> i am totally against any racism. and i am told that white nationalism, the that is considered racism. i'm totally against that. i'm totally against it. if it's racism, i'm totally against it. i'm against racism, 110%. i always have been. football coach, i've dealt with more minorities, trying to build football teams. i've dealt with that all my life, okay? i think i did a pretty good job. >> you've dealt with minorities when -- it is one stuff away from saying, i'm not racist, i have black friends. here's senate majority leader chuck schumer calling on tuberville to apologize. >> and for the senator from alabama to obscure the racist nature of white nationalism is indeed very, very dangerous. his words have power, and carry

weight with the fringe of his constituency, just the french. i urge my republican colleagues to impress upon the senator from alabama, the destructive impact of his words, and urge him to apologize. >> sadly, tuberville, senate yo people eads won't step in and stop him. mitch mcconnell refused to mention tuberville when asked about his comments, simply giving a generic response condemning white supremacy. and republican whip john thune says he is not sure exactly what tuberville is trying to say. let me be clear, senator, i know what tuberville is trying to say. we all do. and you do yourself a lot of favor if you admit you did too, and put an end to his insane nonsense. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ g their deli meats fresh. that's why this qb profers the new five meat beast. and this qb profers it. and if we profer it. we know you'll profer it too. are you trying to outspokesperson me? maybe.

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>> good morning. i'm jonathan capehart. katie phang has the day off. trump's stunts the twice impeached, twice indicted, one term ex president railed on rival ron desantis and his own mounting legal woes at the turning point usa action conference. political analyst brendan buck and former governor join me live to discuss. getting their own, house republicans attack trump appointed lifelong conservative fbi director christopher wray over what they call a politicization of the nations preeminent law enforce