point in this election cycle, and an inflection point on our democracy. donald trump brought our system of governance and the rule of law to the brink when he tried to overturn the 2020 election. and now, as he attempts to rise to power again, he is bringing us right back to that perilous edge. last night onstage in west palm beach, florida, the twice impeached disgraced former president and current republican front runner outlined in alarming detail his plans for dismantling democracy. as you know, we typically don't hear donald trump's speeches live. on the show, we are judicious about even playing clips from his rallies, and always either with or for the proper context for discussion. that is because donald trump lies so frequently, and we all learned on january 6th, those lights can feel very real violence. we also learned the sting from the poison of trump's lies gets dull or the more you are exposed to it.

as journalists, we have a duty to bear witness when our nation is in peril to shine a light on the dark path that donald trump and his enablers lead us down. that is the moment at which we find ourselves this morning. i'll admit to being a little surprised late last night that anything donald trump can say can surprise me anymore. but this is some nasty stuff. last night's speech was dangerous for the truths that donald trump told as it was for the lies. there were lies, but the truth is that we are dangerously close to donald trump rising to power again and finishing what he's started when he tried to overturn the results of the last presidential election, and take over the government in contravention of the will of the american people. and if you listen closely, to his 90-minute speech from last night, he was basically openly plotting how it was going to weaponize the government by cleaning house and firing anyone that his administration considers an enemy, or insufficiently loyal to trump's

self serving agenda. >> never forget our enemies want to stop is because we are the only ones, and that is all of you, and me, we are all working together, who can stop them. we are the only ones that can stop them. they want to take away my freedom because i will never let them take away your freedom. it is very simple. they want to silence me because i will never let them silence you. and in the end, they are not after me, they are after you, and i just happen to be standing in their way. that is true. we are a failing nation. it nation in decline. and now these radical left lunatics want to interfere with our elections by using the law enforcement. it is totally corrupt and we will not let it happen. 2024 is our final battle, with you at my side we will demolish the deep state, we will expel the warmongers from our government, we will drive out

the globalists, we will cast out the communists, marxists, fascist, so we will throw off the sikh political class that he's our country, and we will read the fake news media, we will defeat crooked joe biden, and we will drain the swamp once and for all. >> joining me now, struck stephen, senior adviser for the lincoln project an author of the forthcoming book the conspiracy to end america. if i ways my own party is driving our democracy to a top received. with us as a former strategist and cofounder of the lincoln project, rick wilson, he's also the host of the enemies list podcast. the enemies list sounds like it will get a whole lot longer after that speech last night. and the author of the book running against a, development to save america from trump and democrats. i saw you shaking your head, does something, because you, unlike a lot of people in my audience, you to do have to listen to this stuff because of the work that you have done in

parsing it, and making people hear it. i'm also surprised you would be shaking your head because this got really dark. i didn't think trump could get darker and could start talking more like an autocrat, or a dictator. but he seems to study the criticism of him and then doubled down. >> now, this is a classic piece of chasing authoritarian dragon. he knows the audience wants more, and more, and more. he understands the republican party as it exists today has increasingly, not only become tolerant of authoritarianism, but they desire. there is a reason why donald trump and ron desantis are the two most popular republican candidates by the order of magnitude practically at this point it is because both of them are telling the audience i will be the strongman, i will be the dictator, i will be the one who punishes your enemies, i am here to bring you through the apocalyptic battle so that we can crush our opponents before us, and eliminate their ability to put a contest, or

political candidate against you in your life. it is a really dark path. >> story, i have to ask, i can understand trump's running so far ahead of desantis and everybody else in that race, he is using what works for the primary, but i cannot see why independent voters, why moderate republicans would go for this sort of top. it is really dangerous stuff. i mean, this lumping of communists, and marxists, and fascists, in 2024 is our final battle, if you believe in democracy than 2024 is not your final battle. >> look, i think we will have a close election, we've learned the democrats with electoral college have to win by at least four points. so it is really important to keep in mind for everybody over this next year, when you see a poll, and biden is ahead by two points, he's probably losing the electoral college. so it is really a game of small numbers.

40,000 people change their vote in the last election, even though biden won by over seven billion. it only took 40,000. trump would still be president. think what that would mean. what happens is he read studies of authoritarianism, and you always say listen to what they say because they say what they will do. and as rick said, it is exactly what is happening here. he's not running for the constitution, he's not running for rule of law, he has become what you are supposed to support. the world isn't such chaos, americas this terrible place, only i can save you. and when he ran for president in his inaugural address, it is extraordinarily dangerous. and these people can win and we must wrap our heads around that. >> again, i ask you guys, rick, what does one do about it?

because what you did through the last election cycle and the cycle before that was to underscore some of these things to kind of take the best of, the hit parade of what donald trump does and sometimes to make the point you would put dark music and the special effects into some of those ads. there's nothing your dark music and special effects can do. he is saying all of those things you are warning people that he actually meant. when store says listen to what he actually says if you listen to what he actually says, he had everything last night. he talked about families, he talked about leftist universities and marxist assaults on american heritage, and western civilization itself which tends to have shades of nationalism. you spoke about social media and trans bills and anti vax conspiracy. what do you now do? who's less to convince him when you have to do to convince him that this is danger? >> well, the good news is, he's actually expanded the number of

soft republicans who are addressable. who joe biden could persuade. that number has gotten larger while the core of the republican party has gotten much crazier and much more intense. so he could still win with that crazy core. but there are more republicans and conservative independents who could be moved away from trump now than there were in 2020. that is the good news. the bad news is that democrats need to rally around joe biden right now, you need to have zero daylight between any democratic official, elected person, donor, they need to be 100% behind joe biden and stop complaining. stop pretending you will get somebody different or better or more fun or younger. joe biden is going to be your nominee. get behind him now because the bottle is already on. donald trump is going to win this nomination and we need to be ready for that. it will get us a long fight ahead. people who don't think this election is going to be a bloodbath are mistaken.

>> story, -- >> this is also the danger of a third party with no labels supporting. it is incredibly dangerous because there is a group of people out there that if they voted, a lot of them voted for trump in 16 and biden helped, and came back to him in 20, but if you give them an off ramp to vote for any other alternative, a certain percentage could be voting for that person. and that will elect donald trump. and has to be taken with great seriousness. and one of the challenges here is the language to talk about this. because it sounds so alarmist. but it is like a pandemic. whatever you say at the beginning it will sound alarmist, but it will be inadequate. and that is -- >> i actually invited you on to talk about this. that's what we are going to

talk about. the no labels issue. because there are people out there if you talk about more available potential republicans but the problem is we have a whole bunch of people who have this view of i am sick of all of this nonsense i just want somebody moderate with no labels which is a very well-intentioned idea that is playing to that. but if you do that right now you take away the binary choice of donald trump versus someone else, and the prevailing wisdom that i think the three of us up on the screen is that this is advantaging donald trump. >> that has the advantage of being trail. and what you've got with no labels as that mark pinzon they've built this machine that is now funded by republicans, it is operated and staff by many of the people who came out of the rnc running the operations now. and you've got a group that by their own admission in their own polling says very clearly when our guy gets in, it takes away votes from biden and helps

elect trump. they've admitted it, they've said it on television, they can't spin it, there is no amount of policy papers, or problem solving, they removed the fact that they are now a functional pro trump organization and they've admitted it that they are going to elect donald trump by splitting the democratic vote. they are going to try to push as many people as they can to a joe manchin, joe lieberman, whoever it turns out to be, there's a conservative democrat and they will try to split the vote. that is their objective. they said it on paper. they admitted what it does and anyone who is still taking them as a well-intentioned do-gooder needs to look a little closer at the very deep intentions of their staff and their plan. >> hold on right there, i want to take a quick break and ring you to stuart stevens, we will be right back after the break. we have breaking news out of pennsylvania right now. at least three people are dead after a massive thunderstorm caused severe thunder flooding in bucks county. for people ranging in age from

nine months to 63 years old or missing and disaster declarations have been put in place for the area officials say that while they are still treating this as a rescue they are fairly certain that we are in recovery mode at this time. that is three people dead and four people missing we have an update scheduled for 11:30 am eastern and we will bring you that live here on velshi. we will be right back. l be right back. with chase freedom unlimited, you can cashback 3% on dining including take-out. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or the tacos at the taco shack. nah, i'm working on my six pack.

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were a witness to, and some unintentionally participant and one of the widely covered events in history, january 6th, what was that? do you think it was an insurrection? >> i never used the word insurrection over the last two years. but it was a riot that took place at the capitol that day. >> that would be stored stevens, senior adviser, chief strategist for mitt romney's 2012 presidential campaign and rick wilson, cofounder of the

lincoln project and a former republican strategist. if you ever go at me like donald trump went at mike pence, and build a gallows, and encourage people to kill me, i will not be nice to you after that. mike pence is running out about 6% right now, probably his best hope is that donald trump and ron desantis implode. but whatever you think january 6th was, whatever word you want to use, it was about antidemocratic violent, illegal thing. and we are still stuck on semantics. tucker carlson asking mike pence, what it was, shows that people cannot draw away from donald trump. they can say all the bad things. if there is anyone in this country who is entitled to say about things about donald trump i think mike pence would be that guy. either one of you take that. >> well, i mean, he tried to murder mike pence. let's be real about this. he tried to murder mike pence. he wanted his minions on his thugs and his shock troops to murder mike pence in order, in

order to send a message to congress that they would have to delay certifying the election so that he could hold power. the fact that mike pence is so morally vacant that he couldn't say to tucker, tucker, i hear what you are trying to do here, but he tried to kill me and my family on capitol hill that day and he can go and blank off. but mike pence has no spine. he's a bold tapioca pudding. >> we had this conversation, a couple of people in the race, two or three people in the republican race who do seem to have a spine. may not have many chances to do anything, does that help? when i ask you this, you and i have talked about it last week, what is the best hope for america and democracy right now? republicans from inside trying to take donald trump out, or at least create an alternative, or everybody just abandoning that ship and if you have to hold your nose if you don't like joe biden and democrats hold your nose just to preserve democracy. what is the best chance for democracy prevailing? >> there is no question that

the latter, not the former. the republican party is not going to say itself. if you think about what principle, or action could be more dangerous, and personal than somebody trying to come into your office and kill you, and you still won't vote to convict in an impeachment trial, the person who organized and instigated that action. so, if it doesn't make you be against this person because they tried to kill you, what else is it going to be? rick and i spent a lot, a lot of years pointing out flaws in the democratic party. none of that matters. the democratic party is the only pro democracy party in america. it is mind-boggling to me that i am saying that, but it's absolutely true. the republican party has become an authoritarian movement. there is no ideology there. and there is no governor-ing

philosophy. and that is why they are not governing. having these ridiculous hearings, woke this, and attacking the company with ron desantis, it is an angry movement that makes you feel that as an american, you are disadvantaged. i mean, to be born in america when ronald reagan was president, in donald trump's america, you are a trump, you are a sucker. he will make that up. that terrible disadvantage you have as an american, he will settle the score. it is a dark vision, it lacks any optimism, and it is really an attack on democracy. that is what this is about. democracy is on the ballot. and nothing else matters. and you are going to have to see it that way and do what it takes to support democracy, or you are doing a great disservice to the incredible legacy that we have been handed. >> i think both of your points is that you have to be active about, it you can't sit back and wait for this to unfold and then the three of us are going to be talking about this in 2025 when donald trump is

president again. thank you for joining me, stuart stevens, upcoming book conspiracy to end america, five ways my own party is driving our democracy to a top receipt. rick wilson as he cofounder of the lincoln project, we offer the book running against the devil, a plan to save america from trump and democrats from themselves. we are entering a red hot american summer of strikes. hollywood is effectively shut down, which is going to affect your summer binge-watching. but there is another strike pending that could actually opened your daily life. ily life subway's now slicing their meats fresh. that's why subway's proffered by this champ. and this future champ. and if we proffer it, we know you'll proffer it too. he's cocky for a nineteen year old.

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companies representing by the alliance of motion picture television producers which the actors are striking against. i myself am a sag actra member but not as my capacity as a host on msnbc, and some of our editorial employees that the news group are represented by the writers guild of america. the sag members joined the 11,000 film and tv writers who are already on the picket lines, these strikes by actors and writers effectively shuts down hollywood. the writers guild of america, which is also known as wga has been on strike since may, those rioters are demanding higher compensation and residuals. especially when it comes to streaming shows, which is how so many people get their entertainment now. suga after was unable to reach a deal with the motion picture -- their health and pension benefits, both the actors and writers guilds are seeking guard rails for the use of tv and television production. the auto industry is bracing

for bargaining as the united auto workers kick off contract talks with the big three, general motors, ford, and stellantis. uaw represents 150,000 u.s. hourly workers who build and produce vehicles in detroit automakers. the union seeking general pay raises, pensions for new hires, and the elimination of tears of pay for workers who do the same job. the president of uaw say they are prepared to strike. if you combine the rioters, actors, 321,000 americans could be picketing this summer. as for the ripple effects on the american public, a uaw strike could mean fewer cars being produced. a work stoppage is going to have a delay effect on the tv shows and movies you love, but nothing will be as disruptive as a teamsters strike at u.p.s.. contract negotiations between u.p.s. and as drivers representing with the teamsters union are running into some issues, heightening the odds of a strike at the beginning of

august. according to both u.p.s. and the teamsters 95% of the contract has been negotiated. the final hurdle is increased wages. the negotiations have already sprung some winds for the workers. u.p.s. agreeing to install air conditioning systems in new delivery vehicles. u.p.s. also agreed to eliminating two tiered we system among the drivers. so with 330,000 u.p.s. workers represented by teamster, says would be the largest strike against a single employer in all of u.s. history. it would also be the first u.p.s. strike since 1997. that 15-day strike in 1997 disrupted the supply of goods and cost u.p.s. 800 and $50 million. 1997 was a long time ago. that was before smartphones, before next day delivery before just in time supply chains. a new study by anderson economic group, a think tank that specializes in the economic impact of labor unions find that even a short ten-day u.p.s. work stoppage today

would cost seven billion dollars, that includes consumer losses. u.p.s. handles about a quarter of all u.s. partial deliveries, it reaches virtually every city and town in the nation. a strike could delay millions of packages daily, close, food, medication, electronics, furniture, you name it. the everyday consumer will feel it, but so will major industries like hospitals that rely on the parcel service to deliver medical devices and medicine. our shelters and nonprofits that rely on u.p.s. to deliver food and supplies. are local businesses that keep their doors open to u.p.s. drivers that ship products to them and out to customers. that's kind of disruption could reignite a supply chain issue that stokes inflation. you might be asking, what about fedex, and usps, can those companies pick up the slack? they will try, but analysts say u.p.s.'s competitors will not be able to absorb the massive backlog of a u.p.s. strike. according to u.p.s., it delivers 24.3 million packages per day. more than any other delivery service.

unionization in america is having a moment right now. labor unions are mobilizing to improve the power of the worker. on august 3rd, 1981, or traffic controllers went on strike after negotiations with the federal government over wage increases and work hours failed. president ronald reagan called a strike illegal he threatened to fire any controller who didn't return to work within 48 hours. and reagan followed through on that promise. two days later, he began firing over 11,000 air traffic controllers who did not return to work. and he banned the strikers from ever being re-hired by the federal aviation administration again. a lifetime ban was rescinded by the clinton administration 12 years later. this extreme scenario is unlikely to play out in 2023 because none of these strikes were proposed against a federal government. even if they, where president biden is a pro union president. the sentiment toward labor

unions was different in the 19 80s. the public supported reagan's action. 57% agreed with how he handled the situation, according to a gala pull at the time. today, there is much more of an appetite for the free treatment, the fair treatment and compensation of workers. a 2022 gala poll found that 71% of americans now approve of labor unions. we might just be on the precipice of a renaissance for the american worker. with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv (vo) when someone is diagnosed with cancer, they need support. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. subaru and our retailers are there to help... by providing blankets for comfort and warmth and encouraging messages of hope to help support nearly three hundred thousand patients facing cancer nationwide. we call it “the subaru love promise.”

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the trinity test and the revelation of the first atomic explosion to the world was one of the most important moments in the 20th century. the trinity test and the development and the race and the fact that it was all attempting to save kind of humanity from fascism. world war ii would be over, our boys would come home. this is a matter of life and death, but i can perform this miracle. what was really interesting was going back and trying to understand what these guys were thinking and the terrible decisions that were placed in front of them. i don't know if we can be trusted with such a weapon, but i know the nazis can't. we live in the world that we live in because of what happened at los alamos. this is the most important thing to ever happen in the history of the world. all through humanity we've been blinded by ambition and pursuit and then the ramifications of something else. it's happening, isn't it? i think that's why it's so bizarre and amazing that chris is making this movie now. we're seeing parallels. it's a profoundly overwhelming experience watching.

oppenheimer's story is just one of the greatest stories that there is. the president needs to know what's next. what's next? when they were doing the trinity test, they were asked, what are the chances of this going wrong and it blowing up the entire world? chances are near zero. near zero? what do you want with theory alone? zero would be nice. detonator's charged. what is that decision to just still go ahead and do it? it's an extraordinary moment in human history and i wanted to take the audience into that room and be there when that button is pushed and really fully bring the audience to this moment in time. 3... 2... 1... >> joining me now to continue

our conversation about america's summer of strikes, sarah nelson, the president of the association of flight attendants, the largest union, former fda street chair and a leading thinker in america on labor unions and labor rights and worker right. sarah, it is good to see you again, thank you for being with us this morning. >> it is great to see you, thank you so much. >> tell me about what you see going on out there. i gave a lot of specifics about the strikes that are in play, the ones that are happening, but there is something else going on. we've seen a couple years now of increased wages, we are seeing more worker power out there and to me, these strikes are a demonstration of maybe the potential growing power of the american worker, but you study this more than i do, what do you see? >> you talked about it in your opening, you said that in 1981, ronald reagan fired the air traffic controllers. not only fired them, but sent some of them to jail and forbid them from working in the

federal government over again. so that part of it was stopped by clinton, when people already lost their careers, 12 years later. that was open season on unions. it is sending a signal to the corporate elite that they should drive unions into strikes, that they should get rid of workers, replace workers and that way, and we saw a destruction of the percentage of workers who were in labor unions at that same time, starting from 1980 until now, we have seen a drive up of productivity. that has been across industries. oftentimes we see these things sectioned out and talked about by industry. but what you are seeing here is you are seeing everyone from actors to electricians, two delivery drivers, to teachers, all striking together. nurses, and they are striking for the same reasons. they are striking against two tiered employment, they are striking against this part time at u.p.s., same thing, striking against the shift of health care costs to the workers. more and more of that has

shifted. and they are striking for that living wage. you know, ever since that time, unions have been on decline, the corporate elite have decided that we are a line item that they could treat as a line item and that is what workers across industries have experienced. we experienced it even worse during the pandemic, we weren't only a line item, they saw this as disposable. and workers are rising up and striking back. they are doing it together. there is more solidarity than we have ever seen before because today, the worker is not just a white man, it is everyone across the industry. it is everyone across the working class. and that solidarity is rising up, especially with gen z leading us and we won't take it anymore. we will not take the fact that gluttony and greed is driving our economy. >> and that -- executive compensation is at record high and executive

compensation, the spread of what ceos make and what the worker at a company makes is also at record highs. people get frustrated by this. i think when times are tough workers are prepared to take their lumps and say okay, this might not be the time for us to get all the increases and all the time we want but times are tough right now. >> they are raking in billions and billions of dollars and we should be sharing in that. and they've gotten to a place, i am talking about the corporate elite once again, believing that they could just starve us out. i went to a labor management conference about a year ago, a very prestigious school in boston, and there were executives from all across different industries who spoke up and said the biggest problem right now and management relations is that unions are not doing a good enough job of selling a tentative agreement. i said that is easily fixed, but workers are done with being

told that we have got to give more and more of ourselves, we have to give away our time, that we cannot call in when we are sick, that we can take the vacations we need, that we can control our own time, there's forced overtime everywhere. 100 years ago, we were fighting for the eight-hour day. we are fighting for that again all together. and they use the forties to distract and demoralized. they are saying the quiet part out loud right now. they are saying we are going to starve them out. we will wait until the fall, when they are tired and hungry, workers are saying that's not going to happen. august 1st we are going to see almost 1 million workers on strike here. that could be a spark that -- we are standing together, and we will take what is ours. >> we are less than two weeks away from august 1st where the summer strike could become a lot hotter. sarah, thank you for giving us some insight into this from the

inside. sarah nelson as the president of the association of flight attendants, cwa. >> and we are fighting for good wages in alaska, and united airlines as well. i have got to shut up my people. they are going to the picket line and taking strikes. >> they will be picketing, not a strike vote taken yet, but they will be picketing as of monday, i believe. members of the afa. thank you for that, sarah, good to see you as always. >> coming, up next, playing politics with america's readiness. america using the nations defense as a pawn in the culture war. that is putting us all at risk. >> it is woefully a responsible that extreme maga republicans have hijacked a bipartisan bill that is essential to our national security. and taking it over, and weaponizing it, in order to jam their extreme right-wing ideology down the throats of the american people.

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the national defense authorization act. the ndaa. it is a crucial piece of legislation that congress passes every year to determine policies, and allocate funds for our nations defense. this year's ndaa is set to authorize 886 billion dollars in defense spending, it will also set policy for military related programs that are run by other agencies like the department of energy's nuclear weapons program. and the fbi's counter intelligence activities. typically, the nda receives broad partisan support. lawmakers on both sides of the aisle recognize the importance of strong national defense. if you were to characterize, it typically, republicans back it more strongly than some democrats do. but generally it has got bipartisan support. this past week, 60 years of that precedent was shattered

after republicans turned the ndaa into a battleground for social issues. adding controversial amendments, having very little to do with military, nothing in some cases, on everything from abortion to transgender health care, to diversity programs, and even book bans. all of those amendments made a bill, a complete nonstarter for almost every democrat, but house republicans on friday pushed it through largely along party lines, a vote of 219 to 210. now, the bill heads to the senate, where it is shorted die because democrats have a 50 1:49 edge. however, the military finds itself caught in the crosshairs of this culture war in the upper chamber as well. thanks to the far-right crusade led by alabama republican tommy tuberville who has been single-handedly blocking the senate confirmation votes for 265 nominees for critical military positions in protest of the military's policy on reproductive health care. on this political maneuvering,

all of this political maneuvering over the nba has serious consequences for military readiness and it could severely undermine recruitment efforts. for more on this i'm joined by retired u.s. army, colonel jack jacobs, an analyst he is a highly decorated military men having received the medal of honor and two purple hearts for his tours in vietnam. i am also joined by jeremy butler, u.s. navy veteran undue reservist. he is the former ceo of the nonprofit, iraq and afghanistan, veterans of america. he also sits on the board of directors of the group, veterans for political innovation. gentlemen, good to see you this morning, thank you for being with us. jack, it is good to see you i have to ask you about this. the military sees itself troubled onto friends. the house has done a whole bunch of things that really don't need to be involved in a national defense authorization act, and tommy tuberville and the senate is holding up actual military readiness. this is not a good time to be playing these kinds of games.

>> it is never a good time to be playing these kinds of games. you said yourself then typically, there is more bipartisan support, there is disagreement at the margins, but generally speaking, we have got a defense bill relatively quickly. any delay in passing an nda could, particularly at this time when there's so many threats for the united states and our allies, it has nothing to do with the military, it is extremely dangerous. and this has further problems later on. if the senate, if the senate is not going to agree with this, which means that there's going to have to be some discussion, but the, particularly the republicans are playing this out as a political program in the press and it is not working very well for people in the military. we have a small number of people defending this country. and if we can support them with a good nba, and very quickly,

our defense, the defense of our interest and our allies are going to be at risk. >> there is an ongoing parliament problem, that is recruitment, it is hard to get people to join the military in this country. of the people who are eligible to serve in the military, interests at about seven -- it is at an all-time low, so we have to think about this. it is a real effort to recruit people to our armed forces to be involved in some very important things in the world that are keeping the world safe and a world in which it could become a lot more dangerous. with all of the things we are looking at in the middle east. >> our most important tool that we have in the military are people. we have always focused on taking care of our people. that is the strongest asset or military has. and the really controversial and inappropriate things that have been put into the nba

directly attack those people who are volunteering to serve right now. you mentioned the recruiting problem we have right now, some of the things that are being talked about, these are going to help target that recruiting problem. and that is simply not true. the reality is that we are currently in a situation where about 70% of american youth are not eligible. they don't meet these standards for serving in the military. we have real problems there and this is not the way we address. it we need to be honest about what our shortfalls that we have within the military, and within the recruiting industry of how we can truly correct them and the way to ndaa it's going about it is doing the worst, it is harming the people who are currently serving. >> let's talk about this a bit. i am an economics guy. you are a military guy. this is where it comes together. if you have an ill ability to recruit sufficiently, all of america has a right now, but the military in particular, you have to go out there and get people who may be otherwise, traditionally would not have joined the military. we went through this conversation with women, and the rosé could play in the

military, we went through this conversation with gay people and the rules they could play in the military. the military's best interest isn't getting every available american who is prepared to join them and qualified to join to join. so there is an actual disincentive that is being put in there under the guise of these culture war things that do not come to play as much as we used to think that they did. >> one thing crosses my mind, and that is that we have gone into the force now, back when i was young we had a draft, and we made the political decision to outsource the defense in the country to a very small number of men and women who were able to do it, and if you are able to do it, then you've got to make it easy to recruit these people. there is a wide gap opening up between those who are serving in those who are being served, i think that is extremely dangerous. and it is exacerbated by this argument over the ndaa.

we have a decreasing percentage of people willing to serve. this is extremely dangerous. in a situation in which we have a variety of threats to us, people who are trying to make life difficult for both the united states, and its allies, being unable to recruit americans, to defend their country, is extremely dangerous in the extreme. politics is basically about the allocation of resources. people, time, money, throwing politics that have nothing at all to do with those things in the defense of the country's the worst possible thing you could do and it is making it extremely difficult now and it is gonna make it more difficult to recruit people that we need in order to defend the country. >> let's talk about this concept of readiness and effectiveness. because when we talked about putting women into contact roles, the argument was that it

would read cohesion and effectiveness and it would be really terrible. when we talked about people being in the military, it was going to read cohesion and effectiveness and all of the stuff. now we've got restrictions and the nda blocking abortion related expenses, not quite sure why paying for somebody's abortion as part of their health care, we pay for other people's health care, why that somehow affects cohesion. restricting transgender care services, targeting diversity programs at the pentagon, what is -- what sense does this make? why are these things kept out of the bill and affecting cohesion and effectiveness. it sounds to me like the effectiveness right now is can we get enough people to serve in the nations all volunteer military? >> that is exactly right. we need to be clear to those people who have raised their right arm to say that they would serve and that this isn't doing it. there are a few things that i want to clarify. these efforts directly target

people that are serving. so in saying that diversity and equity and inclusion efforts are not good for a military, but the fact is that they are and there is not a problem within the military. i was there when the end of the repeal -- i was there when they removed all restrictions on women in combat roles. none of these had anything other than a positive effect on our military inside of the department of defense, there was not a ripple. the republicans are making these claims that all of these things had people quitting. none of that happened. our services got stronger and they continue to get stronger with these efforts. and also just to clarify, and perhaps the most controversial part of this nba is the effort to remove the d.o.d.'s ability to pay for our service members, travel, and reimburse them for travel, and get them leave so they can go to a state where abortion is legal. it is not to pay for the abortion. i think that is a good thing to

clarify. because it would not be a department of defense paying for it. it would just simply be allowing service members to take leave and to reimburse them for travel expenses so that they can get from wherever there are stationed somewhere where they can get medical care. that is one of the priority things that we provide for our military members. that is health care. we shouldn't be limiting it, we shouldn't be making sure that they are getting it. >> i appreciate this conversation a lot. retired u.s. army colonel, jack jacobson, and as nbc analyst, and jeremy butlers, former ceo of the veterans of america and united states -- more after the break. more after the break switch to a king suite- or book a silent retreat. silent retreat? oh! hold up! earn big with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback?

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a turning point for the 2024 election across roads for our democracy. donald trump gave a speech last night in florida where the truth he told were more alarming than the lies. plus, the climate crisis we're living every day and what can be done about it. we still don't know what's happening inside russia since you've getting prigozhin's mutiny. there are clues, and we're gonna examine them all. then, one of the stupidest things happening on the internet right now is unfortunately important to democracy, involves these two guys. that's on another hour of velshi, starting right now. good morning, it's sunday, july 16th, i'm ali velshi. we begin this morning with a crucial turning point in this election cycle and an inflection point for our democracy. donald trump brought our system

of governance and the rule of law to the brink when he tried to overturn the 2020 election. now, as he attempts to rise to power again, he is bringing us right back to that perilous edge. last night, onstage, and west palm beach florida, the trace impeached disgraced former president in the current republican front runner outlined in alarming detail his plans for dismantling democracy. as you know, we do not typically are donald trump's speeches live. on this show, we're judicious about playing clips from his rallies and always either with or for the proper context for discussion. donald trump's lies so much. we all learned on january six of those lives can feel very real violence. we also learned the sting from the poison of trump's lies gets dull or the more frequently are exposed to it. but this is a very very important but. as journalist, we have a duty to bear witness when our nation is in peril. to shine a light on the dark path that donald trump, his allies, and the neighbors are leading us down. this is the