this, about letting the american people decide -- [laughter] that's gonna be the case. >> michael, i got 25 seconds, but on olivia's point about chris christie and a sergeants, any traction to actually coming out and saying what you think? >> no, not really. i mean, there is been some,asa n to coming out and saying what you think? >> not really. there's been some thought at the bottom of the polling and christie has moved to third place in new hampshire. it's going to be a state by state slog we know that. not a national referendum or vote in that regard at this stage. but he's still punching and that's a difference maker. >> michael steele who often sits in with me on my show knows when i've got 20 seconds i've got 20 seconds. that's "all in" on this tuesday night. you can watch velshi right here

on msnbc. >> 20 seconds impressive. thank you, my friend, as always. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. today for the first time since this federal investigation began lawyers for donald trump and prosecutors from special counsel jack smith's office appeared together before judge aileen cannon in a nra courtroom. lawyers argued the trial over mishandling of classified documents at mar-a-lago, that trial should be pushed until after the 2024 election. federal prosecutors, on the other hand, want the trial to start this december. now, judge cannon did not make a decision on all that today, and we're going to have much more on that story coming up. but even if judge cannon decides to delay this trial for these federal charges -- for these federal charges, there's a good chance no matter what donald trump will be standing trial for at least some federal charges

before the end of this year. and that is because today we learned special counsel jack smith has made one of the most important and consequential decisions to date. it appears as if he is ready to charge donald trump in his attempt to overturn the 2020 election. now, getting to this point, getting to this decision to pursue trump for his alleged criminal behavior is the culmination of an extensive federal investigation, an investigation that was arguably kicked into high gear thanks to a decision made by speaker nancy pelosi two years ago. >> this morning with great solem nuty and sadness i'm announcing the house will be establishing a select committee on the january 6th insurrection. >> we know from reporting speaker pelosi did not make that

decision lightly, that decision to go forward without the cooperation of then minority leader kevin mccarthy. democrats had tried to establish a bipartisan january 6th committee, but leader kevin mccarthy said he would appoint trump loyalists to it like election deniers jim jordan and jim banks, and he wanted them to be on that panel. and ultimately speaker pelosi decided to establish the committee on her own without leader mccarthy's chosen members. she picked seven democrats and two republicans for the task. and that house select committee would go onto produce one of the most detailed and explosive and public accounts of what donald trump did in the lead-up to the attack on the capitol. >> right out of the box on election night the president claimed that there was major fraud underway, and this happened as far as i can tell before there was actuallyby

potential looking at evidence. i told him the stuff he was shutsling to the public was bull -- that the claims of fraud were bull [ bleep ]. >> i respect attorney barr, so i accepted what he was saying. >> so, look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes. >> there were no votes to find. that was an accurate count that had been certified. >> so he had said something to the effect of i don't know want people to know we lost, mark, this sem barsing. figure it out, we need to figure it out. i don't want people to know that we lost. >> why did you decide to march to the capitol? >> basically, you know, the president got everybody riled up, told everybody to head on down, so we basically were following what he said. >> i overheard the president say something to the effect of i

don't care they have weapons, they're not here to hurt me. >> do you remember which crimes mr. cipollone was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the 6th we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral count. >> after presenting all that damning evidence and testimony, most of it on television, the january 6th committee, came to a clear conclusion. >> trump did nothing to stop the deadly violence for obvious reasons. he thought it was all justified. he incited it, and he supported it. >> we know from reporting that the january 6 committee's presentation lit a fire under the justice department. it was impossible to ignore. attorney general merrick garland had been prosecuting cases against many of the rioters who stormed the capitol that day, but there was disagreement in the justice department about how much the investigation should focus on trump himself.

but after the january 6th committee presented its case last summer and last fall, it was clear that trump's behavior warranted a federal criminal investigation. and while the january 6th committee was finishing up its final report, merrick garland made an announcement. >> i have concluded that it is in the public interest to appoint a special counsel. i strongly believe that the normal processes of this department can handle all investigations with integrity, and i also believe that appointing a special counsel at this time is the right thing to do. the extraordinary circumstances presented here demand it. >> and that brings us to the work of that special counsel today. we know that since jack smith's appointment a grand jury has heard testimony about everything from trump's efforts to get mike pence to overturn the election, to a scheme to send a slate of fake trump electors to washington, d.c., to trump's intent and whether or not he

really thought the election was stolen to whether trump was defrauding his donors with fake claims of election fraud just to haul in cash. and that grand jury has heard from just an extraordinary number of witnesses. they heard from trump aides. they heard from trump's closest advisers. they heard from several of trump's white house lawyers like pat cipollone and pat fillben, and they heard from members of trump's inner sanctum, trump's chief of staff mark meadows and trump's vice president, mike pence. smith's team in just eight short months has interviewed all the key players in an effort to overturn the 2020 election, not simply those who would come forward themselves but reluctant, recalcitrant witnesses who had everything to lose by testifying against a former president who aims to be president once again. and now nbc news reports donald

trump himself is officially a target of the special counsel's investigation. trump today confirmed he received a target letter from the special counsel's office, which almost certainly means that jack smith will bring federal charges against the 45th president for his efforts to overturn an american election. joining us now is a form member of that january 6th committee, someone who helped usher in this moment. what is your feeling as we learn the news there's a likely indictment coming down for the 45th president? >> well, i'm thinking about some of the people whose careers were permanently altered by these events. i'm thinking about my friend liz cheney who was the third ranking person i think in the republican caucus who was the chair of it

republican conference who ended up losing her seat because she stood up for the truth. i'm thinking about elaine loria, my colleague from virginia who lost her seat after she stood up for the truth against the january 6th election. adam kinzinger is no longer in congress right now. i'm thinking about a lot of the officers, too. i'm thinking about sarge want ganelle, an immigrant whose high school class came to visit the capitol and he decided right then he wanted to be a capitol police officer right then. it was his dream job. and he was so badly injured and wounded on january 6th he was forced to leave the capitol police department. you know, a lot of peoples lives have been changed. i read an article the other day about a woman whose name is pamp luhemphill who at 69 years old said she swallowed all the propaganda and the cultish

brainwashing from donald trump about the big lie, and she ended up being convicted and spent a couple of months in jail. and donald trump started sending out messages about this 69-year-old grandma forced to go to jail and attacking the deep state and all that. and she sent out a message saying i pled guilty because i was guilty. but she pledged she would never believe anything that donald trump said ever again. and so the country and i hope a lot of the maga people are beginning to disengage from the thralldom of donald trump's spell he cast over the republican party. >> i would love to talk to you a little bit about some of the charges that have been floated. we know rolling stone is reporting tonight they have had access or a source has given them insight into what was in the target letter, the charges that may potentially come down for the former president. the first is conspiracy to commit offense or defraud the united states. the second is deprivation of

rights under collar of law, the third is tampering with a witness, a victim, or inform want. there's no mention of aiding and abetting an insurrection, which we know is one of the charges that the january 6th committee recommended. what is your feeling about that charge potentially not being in there? >> i haven't been able to look what the final charges are, so i should reserve any comment on that. the fourth charge we recommended was aiding and abetting and giving aid and comfort to insurrectionists, which donald trump definitely did and continues to do to this very day. you'll recall that instead of acting as, you know, commander in chief of the armed forces during the insurrection and leaping to the defense of the union, he did nothing. he sat on his hands until he

started tweeting against mike pence, further inflaming the mob. and then of course he flattered them at the end of the day saying never forget this day and calling them great patriots and heroes, which he's continued to do since that time. but, look, we talk about a number of things which do overlap apparently with what may be contained in these charges including conspiracy to obstruct and interfere with a federal proceeding and a conspiracy to defraud the united states by bringing in counterfeit electors who pretended as if they somehow had the legitimacy of state and federal law behind them when none of them did. and i'm glad to see with 741 criminal convictions already racked up by the department of justice, they're finally getting to the very center of the entire conspiracy, because it was donald trump who changed the dates of all these protests that had been called for january 20th, essentially those were a statement that the maga people were going to continue to

protest against biden during his presidency, but he shifted it from the 20th to the 6th saying, no, this is the date of the peaceful transfer of power, this is the last day we're able to stop this. so all of it really flowed out of his brainstorm there could be an inside political coup and violent insurrection taking place at the same time. >> given the gravity of what is alleged to have occurred here under trump's direction and the fact trump is running for the presidency again, the fact he's not been shy about suggesting he'll pardon himself and other people involved in the january 6th coup plot, the fact he plans to take over the doj if he wins in 2024 and greatly expand executive power, it seems like the timing of this is of the essence. are you concerned that we are now, you know, edging upon primary season in a few months, and donald trump in his defense going to use every excuse not to

have any kind of trial before the presidential election. do you think the american people are going to see a resolution on this before november? >> there have been 741 convictions as i was saying, alex. and there's plenty of time for these charges to be heard for due process to be observed and for justice to be served, so i think that's got to happen. you know, the architects of the 14th amendment understood that people like donald trump needed to be dealt with in a constitutional way, which is why the consul amendment says anyone who swears to uphold and defend the constitution against enemies foreign and domestic who engage in that oath and engage in violence or insurrection shall never be able to hold office again. this is great magnitude and dimensioner, and i would be shocked if judges played into

donald trump's obvious efforts to delay and postpone proceedings until after the election. they should treat him like any other defendant. otherwise, it's basically a message to the criminals of american to file for office at some level so you can keep permanently delaying your proceedings. >> to say nothing about the message that it sends about the republican party itself. congressman jamie raskin, former member of the january 6th committee, a man instrumental in this moment we are witnessing, current member of the house judiciary and oversight committee. thank you so much, congressman, for your time tonight. >> thanks for having me, alex. we have a lot of news this evening including new indictments over the plot to hand the 2020 election to trump in the state of michigan. but first, a very feisty hearing today in a florida courtroom for the other federal criminal case against donald trump. what we learned about how and when that case is going to go to trial.

that's coming up next.

3... 2... 1... the word "promptly" means one thing to a lay person like you or me, but what does it mean to a federal judge? today the federal judge overseeing trump's mar-a-lago classified documents case, judge

aileen cannon, today she took the first step of scheduling an actual trial for the former president. in a nearly two hour hearing lawyers for trump and his codefendant walt nauta faced off with lawyers from special counsel jack smith's office. the hearing was reportedly contentions as trump's team fought hard to delay the trial until after the 2024 election. the defense argued that the sheer volume of evidence in this case merited extra time. the defense pointed to the 1.1 million pages of evidence produced by smith's team including 1,445 pages of classified evidence. and they pointed to the more than three years worth of surveillance footage that has been submitted as evidence. but jack smith's team, the prosecution, countered it has already pointed trump's lawyers to the specific evidence that actually matters here. in other words, the defense doesn't really need to watch three years of security camera footage. trump's defense team also argued that trump couldn't be tried fairly while he was running for

president unless they're arguing the trial should be pushed to next november. jack smith's team, on the other hand, wants the trial to start this december. now, it's not exactly a secret trump is likely to pardon himself if he wins the presidency again and is in office once this trial begins, so the timing here is deeply consequential. but the hearing today ended without a decision from judge cannon who said she would issue a written order promptly. joining us now is our very own ari melber, the host of msnbc "the beat" and neal katyal. no two better gents to speak to about this especially, ari, with your love of adverbs. what does the word promptly mean to you? not generally but in this case? >> if you're someone asked to take off the trash promptly, if you do enough chores at home --

>> it could be tonight. >> it's a great question because words in the law could have a technical meaning or have capacious or open meanings. it could be a minute, she could take her time, but i expect to get a ruling in the near-term. >> what does that mean? like this week? >> yeah, under two weeks. again, she might be on the path of really about to do it in a couple of days and then as a judge she could go back to chambers, she could double-check something, someone could raise something. we're going to get this answer and a real preview, and i will say there's a problem for trump's team in that they're now making the argument, judge, your honor, there's classified stuff and we need security clearances and this is off is a process so we need more time. i thought nothing was classified. and so to be clear with viewers that's not going to be a legal issue at trial. you're allowed pretrial motions. it just speaks to i think the thinness and idiocy of some of

the defendants kind of made up -- that's a nice way to put it -- or blatant lies in his defense. it is a reminder they do have a problem. and then the second thing you don't need to be a lawyer to know is you were so confident at winning, let's get to it. >> exactly. >> this is the legal version of we all know somebody like this hold me back, let me fight, and then if you let them fight they can't and they don't want to fight. >> that's what's happening legally speaking. >> yeah, and the tim pot bravado. >> neal, how much -- today it's not a secret we got news trump had received a target letter from the doj. do you think that factors in at all to the judge's deliberation about the timing of her own federal trial? >> i don't. i think they're two separate things. obviously if there is an indictment as i suspect there almost certainly will be against donald trump in washington, d.c.

for january 6th, judge cannon is going to have to work it out with that other judge for trial schedules because you have an absolute right to be present as a criminal defendant in your own trial, and so he'll have to be with both of them. i think this whole kind of trump delay tactic is bordering on absurd. i mean donald trump is absolutely -- to pick up on something ari said, entitled to the presumption of innocence and all the other rights a criminal defendant has beyond a reasonable doubt, unanimous jury has to convict him. if one juror says he's innocence, he can't go to jail, all of that he gets. you don't get some special right because you were the former president or running for office. and certainly nobody gets a 1 1/2 year trial delay. i mean give me a break. and trump's rationale which is the mar-a-lago case is so complicated that he can't be tried for a year and a half is just bizarre because it's like

all of a sudden magically the complications seem to dissolve right around november of 2024 -- excuse me, mid-november of 2024. and i've handled all sorts of legal complicated cases, i've never seen one that has a magic sell-by date in which it's not complicated enough after a presidential election. the whole thing just smacks of insincerity. and, you know, ari is exactly right. this guy, trump, is saying i'm innocent, i did nothing wrong. if you so much believe that, go prove it in the court of law. you're getting a chance now. >> speaking to the defense is there any amount of material the defense has to sift through. they're citing 1.1 million pages and 3 1/2 years of security

footage there. is there any credence to that as reason for delay. >> i mean there's a version of proportionate credence you say you're not going to do this in a week, this isn't a misdemeanor proceeding. other than that, no, and while the case does have some complexity and government rules that have to be strictly adhered to, i don't think it would take nearly as long as they would say. and as i've emphasized the kind of embarrassment today is that we're seeing the great care the system is supposed to take with these documents, and his own lawyers and the system is doing the steps to give the care he allegedly didn't in the mar-a-lago bathroom. >> right, all the clearance procedures necessary to look at the documents they had. neal katyal, please don't go anywhere. ari melber, stay right here. we have so much more to discuss between this and the mar-a-lago documents case and the election interference in georgia, and

this against trump in new york, and now more special counsel charges. the list goes on. we will be right back. charges. the list goes on we will be right back. rew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now. oh, that fast? remember that colonial penn ad? i called and i got information. they sent the simple form i need to apply. all i do is fill it out and send it back. well, that sounds too easy! (man) give a little information, check a few boxes, sign my name, done. they don't ask about your health? (man) no health questions. -physical exam? -don't need one. it's colonial penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance. if you're between the ages of 50 and 85, your acceptance is guaranteed in most states, even if you're not in the best health. options start at $9.95 a month, 35 cents a day. once insured, your rate will never increase. a lifetime rate lock guarantees it. keep in mind, this is lifetime protection.

as long as you pay your premiums, it's yours to keep. call for more information and the simple form you need to apply today. there's no obligation, and you'll receive a free beneficiary planner just for calling.

i know there's about dupuytren's contracture. i thought i couldn't get treatment yet? well, people may think that their contracture has to be severe to be treated, but it doesn't. if you can't lay your hand flat on the table, talk to a hand specialist. but what if i don't want surgery? well, then you should find a hand specialist certified to offer nonsurgical treatments. what's the next step? visit findahandspecialist.com today to get started.

there's a lot of news tonight, but there's a piece of reporting i cannot get out of my head. as we wait for a likely charging decision from the special counsel's investigation into trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 election, which, yes, we know could come as early as the end of this week, ari melber. and we as wait for fulton county

fani willis and her charges in the state of georgia, charges by the way likely to come at the beginning of next month. and as we await for the judge in trump's mar-a-lago classified documents case to set a trial date promptly. as we wait for all of that, which is a lot of waiting, i cannot stop thinking about this. last week in "the new york times" reporting on the special counsel's mar-a-lago case a source familiar with the matter told "the times" jack smith's team hasn't just been asking questions about mar-a-lago but about other trump owned properties in florida like trump's golf clubs in doral and jupiter. so even with all of this on his plate, jack smith is still investigating. we could have even more indictments, potentially even superseding indictments against existing defendants still to come. how do all these cases line up with each other, and what exactly is the order of operations here? there's no better one to ask than the two gents i have

tonight. of course the calender seems very full already. october of this year is the new york a.g.'s civil fraud case against trump. march of next year is alvin bragg's trial for the hush money probe. there's the unknown trial date for mar-a-lago, potentially trial that will be set in fani willis' investigation into trump's role in the 2020 election results in ther state, and of course the special counsel probe january 6th potential trump indictment. how is this all going to work, neal? >> yeah, so it's definitely a full calender, alish, as you said and it's because donald trump appears to have violated multiple different criminal laws in multiple different jerks. and our law doesn't generally deal with someone who's this much of a serial offender so

what's going to happen is the judges are probably going have to work it out themselves. two judges as well as a potential indictment in georgia and a certain one that's already happened in manhattan and also the possibility of another federal indictment in new jersey at bedminster for that conduct. so all of this is going to have to be coordinated and we haven't even mentioned i think there's a new e. jean carroll trial going to take place next year as well. there's a lot of different activity. and the criminal ones like i said before trump has to be at, and so these do have to get all coordinated. and trump's plan is delay them all, all of them until after the november 24 election. that is not going to hold water. i can't imagine judges are going to go for that. it just seems like a transparent attempt to delay and possibly quash the prosecution with a

republican incoming administration that orders the prosecutions dropped. >> neal, can i just ask in terms of the pecking order here. i was talking with letitia james, the new york a.g., a couple weeks ago and she suggested if the infederal indictment came down any soon she would adjourn her case and fani willis might adjourn those as well in deference to the federal case, which federal cases go first. do you think something like that is in the works? >> absolutely. that makes a lot of sense. the magnitude of the charges jack smagt is looking at on january 6th goes to the heart. you cannot have a president as head of the executive branch who is -- >> we're going to come back to you, neal, if we get your shot back up. ari, in terms of the magnitude of what we already know, and by

the way, the investigations that continue -- as i said i can't get it out of my head the idea mar-a-lago is not even over yet. they are still interviewing witnesses in front of the grand jury. there's a suggestion of other documents being stored at two other golf clubs. the saga continues, and one wonders at what point, i guess how tenable it is from the per spect of the courts to have all these multiple federal cases as trump points out he's running for president and there are more state charges against him as well. >> this is a gangster type of problem. this is not a problem most people have. >> whenever you have make a mob deep reference i'm right on your wing. >> he said i've got three different faces facing three different cases, manhattan, queens, and brooklyn the way things are rook looking i'm

going to see central booking. if you have too many cases, you caught that many cases you eventually are going to run out of luck and get convicted. apply to donald trump in all seriousness, you like your odds of finding one juror. you have to find one juror on this jury and another and another. while it is expected that lower courts, state courts dd defer particularly about stealing an indictment in an election and a coup and trump's been targeted for that, i think the pressure would stay on and i would not expectby criminal case to be completely dropped although it might go to the back burner of what is a bunch of stoves. it might be very well down the road and the question of relevant parties they can handle this, that, and the other but there comes a time if you have three plus cases and your

expectation that things change or they can change fast. >> i do wonder it seems like jack smith, we're beginning to see a modus operandi that other witnesses are testifying, there could be charges unrelated to donald trump in that case forthcoming. we know on thursday a trump advisor is expected to appear before the grand jury that's been hearing this january 6th investigation. he may be rolling out the trump indictments first with charges for other actors in the days and weeks to come. so if we haven't heard about rudy giuliani catching a charge yet, you might in the weeks and days to come. >> i think that's a great point you raise, which goes to the fact that so many people we saw that with weisselberg and the financial case, but some of these people would be looking at much longer periods of time. and then if you have a case convicted before the election and you lose the election and have more cases after, no one

has any incentive to defend you now. >> it's a story very much being written. neal katyal, thank you for your time tonight. there you are, you're back. i can thank you in person for your wisdom. ari melber, thank you. neal has a timely episode of his court side podcast outright now about how to prosecute a former president. oh, that is coming out tomorrow, my apologies. ari has an important show he hosts every night 6:00 p.m. eastern. thank you for your time tonight. really appreciate it. still to come tonight republican presidential hopefuls react to the news the guy beating them in the polls may be about to be indicted for a third time this year. that's third as in three. plus these republican party activists who tried to bluff their way into the state capitol to serve as electors for donald trump they are now under indictment themselves. we're going to get the latest on the fake electors up next. laten the fake electors up next.

hey all, so i just downloaded the experian app because i wanted to check my fico® score, but it does so much more. this thing shows you your fico® score, you can get your credit card recommendations, and it shows you ways to save money. do so much more than get your fico® score. download the experian app now.

as part of the orchestrated plan we allege that 16 michigan residents met covertly in the basement of michigan gop headquarters and knowingly and at their own volition signed their names to multiple certificates stating that they were the duly elected and qualified electors for president and vice president of the united states of america for the state

of michigan. that was a lie. >> michigan attorney general dana nessel today, all part of a plot aimed at keeping donald trump in office. now, this marks the first time any fake electors have been charged with a crime related to the scheme. versions of this also took place in the battleground states of georgia, nevada, new mexico, arizona, pennsylvania, and wisconsin. and what these electors in michigan have charged with is very serious stuff. these michigan fake electors have each facing eight criminal felony charges including forgery and conspiracy to commit election law forgery. those carry penalties ranging from 5 to 14 years in prison for each charge. it is likely that other states have their eyes on this case because down in georgia fulton

county d.a. fani willis is also investigating the fake electors in her state. so far ms. willis has struck immunity deals with at least 9 of those 16 fake electors in georgia and expected to announce criminal charges potentially against the remaining electors and perhaps even against donald trump next month. meanwhile officials in arizona announced last week that they are investigating the fake electors in their state and at the federal level special counsel jack smith appears to be wrapping up in hez own investigation into the 2020 election for which he has reportedly interviewed officials in all seven states where republicans put forward those fake electioners. joining us now is the former u.s. attorney for the western district of virginia. he's also, of course, the former lead investigator for the house january 6th committee. tim, it is great to see you. thanks for being here tonight. i guess my first question is in terms of the fake elector, the decision to charge these fake electors, i mean how significant is this, and how do you see this potentially influencing or

affecting other investigations into these fake elector plots. >> i think it's significant bought not new. the committee identified these facts in other states back during our hearings in the report. we developed evidence, for example, from the chairman of the republican party of michigan who when presented with this idea of alternate electors, fake electors, said we can't do that. when presented with the idea that these electors needed to be in the state capitol according to michigan law on december 14th to certify these fake electors in that they were proposing to spend the night in the capitol before that in order to ensure that they would be there the next day, she said that's crazy, you can't do that. so there's evidence we developed a very specific intent that these electors were told that this is unlawful, that there's no basis for purporting that

these are official certified electors. yet, they went ahead and convened and issued those fake documents. and so it's difficult in that it's yet another manifestation of the plot. this is mull-stage plot, but it's not new because this information has been out there for a long time. >> yeah, to that end the michigan attorney general dana nessel said she effectively reopened this probe in january because up until that point she'd been deif ferring to the federal investigation but sort of didn't know what was happening there, so basically moved forward again on it on her own. do you think the news of jack smith's investigative team has been also moving forward in parallel on the fake electors plot complicates this in any way? how do you see this sort of hand in glove -- i don't know the coordination or any cooperation between the state a.g.s who are running with the fake electors

plot and the feds who are also investigating the same thing? >> i don't think there's been any coordination, and i think that's been intentional. i think the department of justice has done this investigation on its own, has not coordinated with state attorneys general, with the d.a. in georgia, with the district attorney in new york or anywhere else. they didn't coordinate with the select committee either. right, we turned over to them all our work product, all our transcripts, all our documents upon completion of our work. they then use that information to inform their investigation. to be clear the department has pursue this independently not coordinating with other prosecutors but evaegting these on their own. if they proceed which seems unlikely, unclear what happens to the michigan case. it might sit and wait for the resolution of the federal case. it might proceed on the federal track. there are violations of state law as well as potentially

violations of federal statutes, so there could be concurrent prosecutions. to be clear, alex, this is not a master plan where all these prosecutors are kicking around who goes first and what facts are you going to bring, what are you going to bring. just departments are doing this on their own. >> my apologies if i suggested it was a master plan. everybody's talking to the same people but not coordinating with each other. the special counsel is talking to these fake electors and investigating them and the states are too. there's no coordination there. i do wonder because it looks as if fani willis is ready to bring an indictment against donald trump for his role in the georgia fake electors plot or the efforts to swing the election in her state. is there anything stopping the arizona a.g. or the michigan a.g. from issuing their own charges against donald trump given the fact one state a.g.

is? >> no, there's nothing stopping them from issuing separate indictments that specifically correspond to individuals and activities in those states. the jan 6 federal case, however, seems like the umbrella. if president trump himself and other senior campaign officials or lawyers instigated this plan in multiple states, then they have exposure in all those states as well as the federal case. so you could see some overlap in the fani willis indictment if it's issued and involves fake electors and in what jack smith is looking at because this is not unique. the georgia story is not unique, the michigan story is not unique and all the stores you named earlier this is a washington -- >> just looking at the magnitude of the legal drag net, just the size of the drag net hanging over the former president's head, it is astounding. given your sort of granular

understanding of all this, does it surprise you you're seeing so much action at the federal and state level in and around january 6th? >> no, alex. i mean the facts is what's driving this. and very early in the select committee's investigation, it was pretty obvious to us those facts were pretty compelling and were consistent and demonstrated criminal conduct. that's what the select committee ultimately recommended and the manifestations of that is what you're seeing and most recently the target letter and these other state indictments. it's all essentially reaffirming that essential truth, that this was a criminal scheme. >> i can imagine reaffirming for someone on the inside for as long as you have been always great to speak to you. thanks for making the time tonight. when we come what happens when the person you're running against in a presidential election is indicted on federal criminal charges and indicted

again and, yes, maybe again. the strange reactions of the republican 2024 candidates. coming up. republican 2024 candidates coming up. looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath, get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now. oh, that fast? remember that colonial penn ad? i called and i got information. they sent the simple form i need to apply. all i do is fill it out and send it back. well, that sounds too easy! (man) give a little information, check a few boxes, sign my name, done. they don't ask about your health? (man) no health questions. -physical exam? -don't need one. it's colonial penn guaranteed acceptance whole life insurance. if you're between the ages of 50 and 85, your acceptance is guaranteed in most states, even if you're not in the best health. options start at $9.95 a month, 35 cents a day. once insured, your rate will never increase. a lifetime rate lock guarantees it.

keep in mind, this is lifetime protection. as long as you pay your premiums, it's yours to keep. call for more information and the simple form you need to apply today. there's no obligation, and you'll receive a free beneficiary planner just for calling.

i know there's about dupuytren's contracture. i thought i couldn't get treatment yet? well, people may think that their contracture has to be severe to be treated, but it doesn't. if you can't lay your hand flat on the table, talk to a hand specialist. but what if i don't want surgery? well, then you should find a hand specialist certified to offer nonsurgical treatments. what's the next step? visit findahandspecialist.com today to get started.

if the past is any indicator of what could happen next in the trump chronicles, the target letter he received this week is likely a prelude to another indictment, and that indictment may very well be a prelude to another bump in the polls. recall that trump saw a 10-point increase among republican voters following his indictment in the manhattan d.a.'s hush money case in march. and he saw a 5-point bump again among republican voters after his indictment in the mar-a-lago classified documents case this june. so that math is making things sort of difficult if not

decidedly awkward among trump's opponents in the 2024 presidential race. here's how they reacted in the news today of another possible trump indictment. >> we need a new generational leader. we can't keep dealing with this drama. we can't keep dealing with the negativity. we can't keep dealing with all of this. >> i hope he doesn't get charged. i don't think it'll be good for the country, but at the same time i've got to focus on looking forward. >> history will hold him to account. i hope it doesn't come to that. >> i want to win by convincing voters of why they should vote for me, not by having the federal police state eliminate my competition. >> i still believe that the doj is, in fact, weaponizing the tools of our country against their political opponents. >> only two republican candidates dare to take on trump, asa hutchinson, who

hinted trump should suspend his campaign and former governor chris christie who rarely passes up an opportunity to offer criticism of the man he once endorsed for president. kristi and hutchinson are polling at 3.2% and 0.8% respectively in the current average of recent polls. that is our show for tonight. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. i didn't know practically what subpoena was and now i'm becoming an expert. it's a disgrace. if you say something about an election, they want to put you in jail the rest of your life. it's a disgrace. so they can cheat on an election, but if someone else wants to question the cheating they want to call you a conspiracy theorist and all these other things. these people are sick. >> that was donald trump in iowa yesterday just hours after he posted online that he had received a target letter from special cel