reach me on twitter and instagram at at jay deebo lark. you can watch highlights from today's show online at j.d. ballard and miss and b.c.. thank you for the privilege overtime. peter alexander picks up with more news right now. >> right now, on andrew mitchell reports, trump fuming again after receiving the target letter on a special counsel, alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election. campaign trail striking a combative tone. >> i didn't know what a subpoena was. grandeur, is all of. this now i'm becoming an expert. if you see something about an election, they will put you in jail for the rest of your. life it is a disgrace. >> also, a closer look at the new charges against accused fake electors in the state of michigan, the potential for more charges in other 2020 swing states. andrea will join us from aspen, following the conversation with

the u.s. ambassador to the united nations. including new reaction to an american shoulder who willingly entered north korea, ran into north korea, we are told. the hurdles to communicating with such an isolated nation. >> we are willing to engage with them at the diplomatic table. they have not accepted but it is not for lack of trying on our side. the dprk is not just a threat to the united states, it is not just a threat to the republic of korea and to japan, they are a threat to the world. >> good, wednesday i'm peter alexander. today, for my friend andrea mitchell, she will join us from the aspen security for a little bit later this hour. former president, trump, he is rallying his supporters in iowa, tuesday, it's where we started again today. hours after revealing that he is the target of another federal investigation focusing

on alleged efforts to overturn the election. here's what he said yesterday. >> it is election interference. it's never been done like this in the history of our country. it is a disgrace and they feel they want to demean and diminish and frighten people,. but they don't frighten us because we're gonna make america great again. what they're doing with the department of justice, they have totally weaponized. it is totally weaponized. >> nbc news has learned of three criminal statutes, a special counselor's letter to trump. deprivation of rights under law. conspiracy to defraud the united states and tampering with. administration us right, now nbc news justice -- nbc's -- former lead investigator for the january six committee. we have had a panel. let me ask, u.s. are sitting, with us we are learning about the new potential charges, the criminal statutes in the letter that the special counsel scent. what is significant here?

what stands out to you and what is the most damaging for former president trump? >> the most all-encompassing one's conspiracy to defraud the united states. because the theory of that cases that donald trump, and the people around, him they knew that he lost the election. but put forth these fraudulent allegations that the election was stolen and used the levers of power, the levers of government, to try to slow down and stop the lawful transfer of power. including with the fake elector schemes in seven states, including potentially trying to use the justice department. there is also a couple of statutes that were less sure how they fit into the whole case, tempering with the witness that could involve obstruction of justice. and then deprivation of rights under color of, law which could be a lot of different things and i think it's about not 100% clear yet. >> let me get to, you tim, on this. we helped investigating the weeks leading up to january 6th. it's important for those --

the assumptions we are talking about the images on the steps of the capitol that day, this is obviously something much wider that goes into the days and weeks leading up to january 6th as well. aware, based on your knowledge, do you think jack smith has the most evidence? >> peter, look, we at the select committee, in our criminal referral, started that section of the report, and started to hearing in which we made those referrals. 15 12, see that is the obstruction of an official proceeding statute. that's the statute the justice department has been using for some of the riders they have charged already. i can think that that's the one most consistent with the evidence. that's not just what happened on january 6th, that allows the justice department to paint the picture of the multi pronged plan that goes back arguably even before the election. take steps to prevent the lawful transfer of power. so my assumption has been we --

concluded our work in turnover are materials to the special counsel to, today that 15 12 tampering with a witness statute, which is really obstruction, with the professor -- that is likely the league -- >> franken askew, official council maybe considering there is not limited to the criminal statutes referred to in the target letter. the defrauding donors. that's something that caught a lot of attention from her team. >> as can, said a three 71 conspiracy to disrupt the lawful function of government is another part of our criminal referral. i there is a false statement and submission of fraudulent document, this would correspond to the big letters. as you just said, there's a lot of evidence the false representations of election fraud and there's an assertion that this money is going

towards election defense fund which is nonexistent. false statements for consumers, which you could argue, constitutes scheming to defraud. you're lying to people in -- that could also be something the special counsel -- >> you see the legal tentacles that continue to expand from donald trump. we are hearing from the former president, from his team, the argument they have tried to make is that he believes he will win this thing. >> people who are -- legally speaking they want to hang their hat on the idea that this political speech. the most protected speech under -- while he was filing all these lawsuits, giving all the speeches, is in his belief and effort to defend his political rights as the lawful winner of the election. how that was up in a lot of court is a different question. it dovetails with the political arguments he is making to be

elected for a second time as president, essentially saying look, i was fighting for you, my voters. then i am fighting for you now. look what they are trying to do to me. he is struggling this legal and political issue at the same time. >> tim, let me ask, you if i can't, we learn today about jack smith obtaining footage of state farm arena. that's the arena in atlanta, from election day, in 2020. that is the same location the rudy giuliani falsely accused -- you remember those names, smuggling votes. rudy giuliani made -- i would investigators be so interested in that location? >> two reasons, a, that is defense. this is jack smith trying to rebut any possible claim of election fraud. the president has said repeatedly, continues to say that there was fraud in the state farm arena, that the suitcases and ballots -- the footage reboots that. the other thing that's

important is that a ghost as his state of. mind that very precise fact pattern was investigated thoroughly by the justice department. by the fbi, by bill barr, and he was told, we had testimony directly that bill barr told the president that rich donahue, the deputy general told the president that state farm arena claimed fraud is false. we looked at it and it just does not hold up. nonetheless, they continue to spout that theory. and that goes directly to his state of mind and that is why it is of interest to jack smith. >> there does feel like there's an indictment pileup for those who are trying to keep track of all these things. you are in florida yesterday and you are there to cover the hearings that related to the classified documents. judge aileen cannon is the one overseeing that one. those who are watching, us they know that name because she is someone who saw a trump appointed judge who seem to have a pretty cozy sense of the presidential powers as it related to some cases in the past here.

what did happen in that courtroom, and wind we think will get an answer to win the case goes to trial? >> peter, this hearing was entirely about the consequential issue of when this case can go to trial. and judge cannon came prepared. she asked tough questions about sides. there was a real clash. visions i would say she seemed skeptical of the argument by the trump camp, and that this couldn't possibly be tried while he's running for president because of all the media coverage and you can picture, emg just brushed that aside. she was much more sympathetic to the idea that this is a huge and complicated case with more than 1 million pages of documents that were received. 1000 days of surveillance footage they have to review. there is no way they can get this to trial in december, as jack smith wants. she said she will rule any minute now on this particular issue. and that may not stick, it may be a preliminary schedule. that to somber she didn't think december was a timeframe that was reasonable. >> that was the gist of her comments, and there was also a

real clash of visions about whether donald trump should be treated like any other american, which is the position of social counsel. he's not the president and more, he's lawfully indicted. his legal team said wait, he's running for president, he's been prosecuted by his punitive opponents, the administration. special counsel lawyer, dave harbaugh, said that's not true. we are career prosecutors. we are not the biden administration. we are insulated from politics. >> let me ask you quickly, tim, before i let you go, you are able to question key trump officials about weeks leading up to the insurrection. you had to ask others about mark meadows comments during that time since he refused an interview. what specifically do you hope that jack smith was able to get having heard from meadows and pence, former vice president, from those individuals that could be crucial to this argument in this case? >> mark meadows helped us a lot. even though he blew us off. because he gave us those text messages. what they show, peter, is actually all the way back to before the election, all the way through the period through the election in january, six he's right in the center of

every plot, the potential personnel, change when he has pressure on state officials, he is on the call with raffensperger that -- he is right in the room on january 6th, with the president in the ellipse. he is there when the president expresses the strong desire to go to the capitol with the writers. then all afternoon, the president since they're watching television, not issuing any sort of statement, he is right there next to the president. he has so much information about every prong of this multi part plan to disrupt the election. he could be a really key -- if he is cooperative in truthful. >> you make a good point. even without him cooperating with you, guys you have to access those text messages and that's a big difference maker for you as well. we appreciate your expertise and your perspective. garrett haake, my, friend and to both of you gentlemen, thank you for being here. next, here on msnbc, triple threat, whitmore on a third criminal indictment and what it might mean for the president's legal troubles. that is next with nbc senior

legal correspondent, laura jarrett. and we report, it's back 60 seconds from now only on msnbc. om now only on msnbc it's gonna be sweet! what? i'm 12 hours short. - have a fun weekend. - ♪ unnecessary action hero! unnecessary. ♪ - was that necessary? - no. neither is a blown weekend. with paycom, employees do their own payroll so you can fix problems before they become problems. - hmm! get paycom and make the unnecessary, unnecessary. - see you down the line. we are back now on msnbc, we

want to take a closer look at the current impossible future of legal hurdles former president trump could be facing as he continues his third presidential campaign, nbc news eagle laurel -- correspondent, laura jarrett is joining me now. laura, a means of a diamond is highly likely as you've helped us understand. it is not imminent. though the grand jury is still investigating this. so when could that indictment come? >> so i think the best way to look at this is, what happened last time? with the special counsel? last time, as it relates to his investigation of trump's mishandling of classified documents, the former presidents attorneys received a letter, a target letter in may, and then a roughly three weeks later he was indicted. that does not mean that's exactly what's gonna happen. it does provide a little bit of

guidance to try to think through what the timeline might be. it doesn't necessarily mean that we would see an indictment this week or next. week although of course we certainly could. we will be on guard for that but really we don't know what other evidence is left to put in front of the grandeur. the one other witnesses, if anyone, what other details that we need to iron out before he actually seeks the indictment, peter? >> i want to ask you. you pointed out this morning that were knowledge there was nothing on the alleged incitement of the attack on the capitol in jack smith's target letter. what do you make of that? is that still a potential source of inquiry for jack smith's team? >> i think it is notable, given that the attack on the capital is what kicked off everything. when we think back to the violence on that day, and at least as far as we understand it, in the actual target letter that went to the former presidents attorneys, that was not one of the statutes that is referenced, that doesn't mean that the prosecutors couldn't develop a theory of the case based on facts that they find to support that type of charge.

they can always add it, even though it is not in the target letter. but i think the absence of it should help everyone sort of get their heads around what this might be. and it might be that the special counsel thinks that he has a case, purely based on what the steps were taken before the attack on the capitol, having to do with the slates of electors, they efforts to block the certification of the election as opposed to incited the actual violence. >> before we get to january 6th case indictment, or even trial, we still have the classified documents trial the deal with. and in south florida right, now what is reasonable expectation for a start date in florida? as our colleague's reporting, judge aileen cannon made it clear that she doesn't think december. she thinks is too soon for this to happen. so when is it feasible that this could get underway? >> you can understand why she's saying. that you can just have a new trial date left out there, but she also seem skeptical that this could get wrapped up and be ready to go by december. so you might see her issue -- one that puts it in february or

march. the issue there, peter, is he already has a trail day for march. and it's in another case in manhattan in the hush money case. so that's a whole different set of, facts but, still there gonna be mindful of the fact that he is facing all these different trials and the tourney's are certainly gonna use that fact in their favor. >> could be a remarkable scheme put screen, iowa caucuses, new hampshire, south carolina, as a trial is conceivably underway or multiple of the same time. laura, our senior correspondent. we thank you. next, here, across the line, what we know about the u.s. soldier who sprinted across the north korean border we and the relations between the u.s. and the north koreans. two people who have been to north korea, andrea mitchell, in the former human ambassador, bill richardson, will join us next. you are watching andrea mitchell reports, only on msnbc. mitchell reports, only o msnbc. msnbc. a prime target for cyberattacks. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here.

♪ bug spray works best... when your family actually wears it. ♪♪ get odor-free eight hour protection from mosquitoes and ticks without the ick. zevo on-body repellent. people love it. bugs hate it. we always had questions. who do we belong to? who are our ancestors? i know we have them. oh my god, here it is. when i found that immigration record on ancestry®, it was amazing. everything was there. the u.s. was in dire need of nurses during world war ii. tía amalia as a nurse in el salvador decided to answer that call. it's a lot of excitement finding something new. i feel like a time traveler. claudia starts calling me. it's a party every time. ♪

nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid before it begins. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. this is american infrastructure, a prime target for cyberattacks. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. ♪ bridgett is here. for everyone she has no clue that i'm here. she has no clue who's in the helmet.

are you ready? -i'm ready! alright. xfinity rewards creates experiences big and small, we are learning all the and once-in-a-lifetime.

information about the american soldier being detained in north korea. he's 23-year-old privates second class, travis, kinky certain army for two and a half years but was being sent home from south korea when he left the airport, blending in with a group tourists, headed for the demilitarized zone. the dmz. he then bolted across the border into north korea. a tourist from new zealand said that he joined the tour group and she witnessed that happened. >> something i noticed, a guy just in black running full gas

towards the north korean side. the u.s. and south korean soldiers realize what was happening, chased after him. yelled at him. he went into the building on the south korean side. >> joining me now is the anchor of this program. nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell. she is the aspen security forum, also with me right now is the former governor of new mexico, bill richardson who has successfully negotiated the release of detained americans across the world, including and north korea. and we begin with you. private second classed king was supposed to be returned to fort bliss. he had already been punished for some criminal activity in south korea. was likely to face future punishments when he got back home to his base. what other information do we know about why he was headed home? >>, well headed home because he was going under military escort to the security. the commercial airport to the

security clearance, he was not escorted it handcuffs or by military police,. he was under military escort. they wanted him on that plane, he was gonna be picked up on the other side. so he had more problems to. face more discipline to face because of a violation that had already occurred. he faces punishment already of the joint security agreements with south korea. some kind of alleges salt. the fact that he joined the tour group and then, at least an hour to half bus trip to the dmz, and then it is just, as governor richardson knows, on one of the trips to north korea, i was a company governor richard on one of his missions, and in fact, they are eyeballs eyeball. there were military security there who had been caught up with the tour group, who are accompanying the tour group. at that point they would not

have crossed over. because that would jeopardize them as well. so it's very easy than to jump over. and now, the communication is just not been resolved. i did talk to thomas-greenfield about this, and the larger backdrop is that we have no communication with pyongyang. it's just been years of radio silence, even as they escalate their nuclear and missile program. we tried to hear some of that conversation in aspen last night. >> we have made an effort to engage diplomatically with this government. president biden made that offer on day one. that buffer is still on the table, we are willing to engage with them at the diplomatic table. they have not accepted. but it is not for lack of trying on our side. >> pyongyang did acknowledge

receiving a message from the u.s., very immediately that he was doing this willfully, not under, orders was not aggressive. they acknowledged receiving that us as far as we know, they have not communicated since. >> governor, if i, can you've been involved in these negotiations. what is the biggest challenge right now? communications has to be high on that list? >> well, the biggest challenge is tension in the peninsula. the fact that we have military maneuvers with the south koreans, with the japanese, the north koreans are -- as andrea mentioned, -- they won't talk to. us but at the same time, what we have to do, we have to play it correctly. no denunciations, the good news is that north koreans have said nothing about this incident. the hope is that this could be exclusively as a humanitarian issue.

north koreans interrogate this young man, they probably will find out he is just a troubled young man. he's not a defector. he somebody that is gonna face military discipline. he will be deported without any kind of recriminations, diplomatic talk, now our military does talk to the north koreans. andrea has been there when we tried to get the remains of our soldiers back. they do talk communication. u.n. military, the south korean military and the u.s.. so hopefully the north koreans and our military, this can be resolved on military to military technical low-level basis, and the young man will come home. that is my hope. now, the factor is the relationship is in very bad shape. north koreans are hostile. they want to be center stage, russia and ukraine, they resent

that they're not getting that attention. they're shooting missiles -- it's a big challenge. we need to be very careful. we need quiet plum. see very sensitive at this point. >> governor, time has to be of the essence here. what type of treatment could he face? >> i suspect he has been sent to the capitol, pyongyang, where the military facilities and interrogations happen. the sooner the better this is resolved, the sooner there is some kind of explanation for why he went over there from the north korean side, on a non hostile basis. this is what we wanted. what we don't want is for north koreans to use this as a propaganda tool at a time when opinions are so high. the timing is not good.

and so we have to work very closely with the koreans, south koreans, the japanese, the chinese won't help. us they used to help us a lot but they're not in the mood to help us with sanctions and into seedings. so so far so, good no news is. good no statements from the north koreans is good right now. >> you said you spoke to the u.n. ambassador, thomas-greenfield, about another american detained in russia, that is the wall street journal reporter, evan gershkovich. here is part of your exchange. >> can you engage the working level with the russians to free him? >> i engaged directly with my counterpart on that. >> is their progress at all? he is wrongfully detained. he is not a spy. and he has no prospect of getting out, are there back channels? >> the president has indicated

that this is the highest priority for him, and every single member of his national security team, we work on this issue every single day. >> andrea, what needs to be done? how does it get resolved? also, the former marine, paul whelan? >> right, now russia is not helpful. say the, least ambassador richardson, the griner case -- what kind of back channels. they have to find somebody to trade. they don't want to leave paul whelan behind another time, and disappoint his family as well. but right now it is bad. there are lawyers working on it. they're very privately trying to influence other governments to try to be helpful. >> bill richardson, -- sorry, go ahead, governor. >> no, i just think it has to be a two for two, or we have to get paul whelan back along with evan gershkovich. we can't leave him behind. i think this is a problem. the cards, the timing is

controlled by russia. and again, the relationship is very hostile. so that affects what we are doing. it is going to be a prisoner exchange munich should accept that and just do it. >> governor bill richardson, we appreciate your perspective and your expertise. andrea, good to have. you it is your show, after. all i'm just keeping the seat warm while you travel to aspen. we are you doing. that will be back with you is just a moment. msnbc, -- fake, out 16 michigan republicans facing felony charges in a scheme to overturn the 2020 election results. what it all means, next. you are watching andrea mitchell reports. msnbc. he reports msnbc. msnbc.

first, there's an idea and you do something about it for the first time with godaddy. then before you know it, (it is a life changer...) you make your first sale. small business first. never stopped coming. (we did it!) and you have a partner that always puts you first way. (no way!) start today at godaddy.com. age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv the 16 so-called fake electors

in michigan have been charged by that states attorney general facing a felony accounts each including forgery for trying to overturn president trump's loss in 2020. >> as part of the orchestrated plan, we allege that 16 michigan residents met covertly in the basement of michigan gop at corners and knowingly and of their own volition signed their names to multiple certificates and stated that they were the duly electors for president and vice president of the united states of america for the state of michigan. that was a lie. >> again, that is the attorney

general of michigan. joining me is nbc news justice and homeland security correspondent, julia ainsley. juliette, nice to have you. hear what of the charges that are facing? i'm understanding that their claim, at least at this, point is they didn't know what they were signing. >> that's, right peter. these are felony charges. they are serious. they are dealing with this conspiracy to defraud and to obstruct the legitimate outcome of this election. they could carry jail. time they very easily are looking at jail. time it's -- but what do these fake electors say they didn't know? it's hard to believe, given where a lot of them, sit one is a city mayor. a small town in wyoming. once it's on that. serving michigan. a lot of people have held very prominent positions in the gop. it's hard to imagine they would sign something didn't know or understand. it's very clear from the conspiracy laid out by the

michigan tierney general that the 16 electors knew exactly what they were doing. and they intended to go before the michigan senate and say, in, fact the state of michigan elected donald trump and not joe biden. they would need to go in, as the states elected officials, to go before them -- to go forward and say who the outcome -- . who michigan ultimately voted for. the incident themselves into their fraud ali so they can delivered front outcome. >> the first state to do. this is this a template for other states that were fake electors? >> it could be. some of us could be sitting here looking at the clock, like 2020? we're talking about a long time ago. why now? but perhaps michigan aunt was waiting for the fenced step. and there's so much to unpack given what happened around that time. you look at january, 60 look at what's happening in georgia. there are a number of probes. maybe michigan is signaling that there should be states handling this on their own volition. not waiting for the. feds >>, remember if these are state charges, and ultimately

if it is prosecute in that state, no future president could ever pardon anybody for what happened in a state case. this is something that is protected from the potential for a future president. >> that is a great. point >> we appreciate your reporting and being with us. taking on trump, 2024 republican contenders are trying to find a lane around the front runner after the news of the possible firm indictment. you are watching andrea mitchell reports. this is msnbc. s msnbc. s msnbc. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention

with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium.

♪ tourists tourists that turn into scientists. tourists taking photos that are analyzed by ai. so researchers can help life underwater flourish. ♪ age is just a number, and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health versus 16 grams in ensure® high protein. boost® high protein. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. learn more at boost.com/tv it's not too late to show summer's who's boss. now available in cinnabon® bakery-inspired flavor. and wayfair's got just what you need. they have all the top grills and gear. with smoking fast shipping. and wayfair deals so epic... you'll feel like a big deal. yes!

so get outdoorsy for way less at wayfair. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪ - i got the cabin for three days. it's gonna be sweet! what? i'm 12 hours short. - have a fun weekend. - ♪ unnecessary action hero! unnecessary. ♪ - was that necessary? - no. neither is a blown weekend. with paycom, employees do their own payroll so you can fix problems before they become problems. - hmm! get paycom and make the unnecessary, unnecessary. - see you down the line. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley. donald trump has no plans to

travel to washington d.c. this week to testify before the special counsel. that is according to multiple sources familiar with his plans. in the meantime, his challengers for the republican nomination are already picking up on mr. trump's claim that the law is being weaponized. >> i am not convinced of the president acting on batted bice of a group of crank lawyers that came at the white house in the days before january 6th actually criminal. the true, the department of justice has lost the confidence of the american people. >> i don't think it's good for the country. we've gone down this road in trying to criminalize differences in politics. >> they are hunting republicans. that is weaponizing the doj. >> joining me now, the washington post national editor,

boston globe column this, kimberly -- susan page. philip, let me start with. you we understand that mr. trump was calling his allies on the hill yesterday. kevin mccarthy, as he has done in the past, in essence, calling for their loyalty. plotting them to be public in defending him? >> yeah, that is right, peter. this is a familiar playbook for trump as he is matches saying -- to secure the outspoken advocacy from his allies on congress. and also the republican party. we also see him try to raise money and try to use this moment where we are waiting for federal charges from the justice department to boost his standing in the presidential race. >> susan, a new poll out of new hampshire shows donald trump's lead may be shrinking amongst primary republican voters there. this is a 37%. rhonda scent is, according to this, poll is at 23%. i get that it's just a poll but

can republicans decide that mr. trump might have too much baggage with the potential for three indictments? is this a sign of a motion -- erosion? >> so far there's been science with weariness from trump. he could finish and have a double digit lean all the places that matter. now, the other is his opponents are rolling up their criticism just the slightest bit. we sat down with -- that usa today. he said on one hand he would not defend trump's behavior, on the other hand he said if elected president, he would pardon trump. that underscores a dilemma that the candidates face. >> susan, you make a good point. kimberly, i want you to weigh in on this because the challenge for these candidates is that they don't want to tell those trump supporters that it shouldn't be that. so they don't upset the borders. they want to be in the and hard place voter.

they amplified on trump's messaging. >> they do. it seems that the only strategy for anyone in the race who is not donald trump on a republican side is to hope that donald trump beats himself somehow and, for some reason, falls in the polls or pulls out so they can beat the apparent leader. that's what you're seeing. the offering of pardons, or someone like mike pence, of all, people whose life was endangered on january 6th, blaming trump's actions on the bad advice of attorneys. they were caught in a political rock and a hard place right now. >> philip, you know, chris christie maybe the exception here. asa hutchison too. they have made a more aggressive approach when it comes to all. trump years what christie said, take a listen. >> he should be charged, if in, fact there's evidence that he's committed a crime. that is prove-able beyond a reasonable doubt in front of a jury and his peers. until then he has a presumption of innocence. he said in the white house for hours while the attack was going on. the capital. he did absolutely nothing.

>> what is interesting about this right now is that we learned others were watching things regarding potential possible indictment. chris christie is going to be on the stage for the first debate, that is next month, we saw what chris christie did to marco rubio the last time they did one of these. if donald trump is not on that stage, as -- is rhonda scent is a target? >> perhaps, peter, but perhaps christy will aim his focus at trump and attack trump. even if trump is not on the debate stage, the candidates are presumably still going to talk about him because he remains the front runner, the leading candidate for the nomination. so if nobody on that stage could become the republican nominee without first taking down. trump >> susan, how about rhonda santas? some polls in recent, days he is shedding staff right now because of money issues. they are now calls, some of his donors are saying they need to see a big shake-up, including perhaps at the top. how does roundest industry in this?

around is it too late for desantis? >> it's not too late. six months to iowa, that's enough time -- candidates in the past have had staff shakeups. never a good thing when your donors are trying to get your campaign manager fired, peter. >> yeah, you are exactly right on. that kimberly, rhonda scent is faces significant challenges here. so much so that there are now some, including the murdochs, who are starting to circle a name on the map that is not too far from washington d.c., glenn youngkin. as someone they maybe think would be a trump light, someone who could win but has some good policies that they like. >> yeah, glenn youngkin has been lurking on the sidelines for a while now. exactly for the reasons you say, he could potentially have a broader appeal among republicans than someone like ron desantis, who seems to be running to the right of donald trump. but again, it is a long ways off. desantis had the position to

come out as a presumptive second runner. and that is always something that is difficult. when you have someone like trump, who is essentially taking the place of an incumbent on that side. >> this is a smart panel, kimberly, philip rucker's, all my friends. i'm proud to say thank you for being with us here. and next, back focus, why a meeting in the oval office before the january 6th riots might be a major focus of the special counsel's office. you are watching intermission reports, only on msnbc. reports, only on msnbc. if you know... you know it's pantene.

(vo) if you have graves' disease, your eye symptoms could mean something more. reports, only on msnbc. that gritty feeling can't be brushed away. even a little blurry vision can distort things. and something serious may be behind those itchy eyes. up to 50% of people with graves' could develop a different condition called thyroid eye disease, which should be treated by a different doctor. see an expert. find a t-e-d eye specialist at isitted.com my mental health was much better, but i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. i felt like my movements were in the spotlight.

ingrezza is a prescription medicine to treat adults with td movements. ingrezza is different. it's the simple, once-daily treatment proven to reduce td that's #1 prescribed. people taking ingrezza can stay on their current dose of most mental health meds. ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. don't take ingrezza if you're allergic to any of its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including sleepiness. don't drive, operate heavy machinery, or do other dangerous activities until you know how ingrezza affects you. other serious side effects include potential heart rhythm problems and abnormal movements. it's nice people focus more on me. ask your doctor about #1 prescribed, once-daily ingrezza. learn how you could pay as little as zero dollars at ingrezza.com ♪ ingrezza ♪ my dad was a hard worker. he used to do side jobs installing windows, charging something like a hundred bucks a window when other guys were charging four to five-hundred bucks. he just didn't wanna do that. he was proud of the price he was charging. ♪♪ my dad instilled in me,

always put the people before the money. be proud of offering a good product at a fair price. i think he'd be extremely proud of me, yeah. ♪♪ there are currently more than 750,000 unfilled cybersecurity jobs in the u.s. the google cybersecurity certificate was made to fill that gap and help grow the workforce that's keeping us all safe.

we're back now and special counsel jack smith is seen here arriving at his d.c. office this morning, potentially preparing another federal indictment against former president trump. we also have breaking news just now, nbc news has learned that william russell, a former white house aide to former president trump who currently works for his 2024 presidential campaign

will testify in washington to the grand jury investigating the alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election. russell has already appeared multiple times before the grand jury. new evidence that this investigation has not wrapped up just yet, andrea mitchell joining me again from thes a per -- aspen security forum. ben, you've worked in the white house, you've been in plenty of oval office meetings. i was hoping for your take on this december 2021 meeting where former president trump, michael flynn, sidney powell reportedly screaming at white house attorneys. that white house counsel pat cipollone said he was not happy with the group assembled that day saying he was vehemently opposed to the plans they proposed. the white house lawyer described the screaming match in his words as nuts laced with proprofanity. it's this meeting that is among

the areas jack smith is focused on. i trust you've never seen anything like that. it does show you a lot of different voices in that room who may have something to add to what was going on behind the scenes. >> the most important thing was in a lot of meetings that involved lawyers, white house counsel, and the white house counsel was there to tell you what the parameters were that you could do. they were there to offer legal judgment. what's really important here and central to jack smith is if he was getting guidance from the white house counsel that something was not legal, that something was breaking norms, that something was beyond the pale in terms of the proposals being brought to him by this strange collection of expertise theorists, if he heard that advice from his own lawyer and chose to disregard it, that means not only he was trying to overturn the election but he was being told what he was doing was

illegal. that's the central thing, chs he ignoring the legal advice he was being given. i was there in a transition too, peter. it's a strange time, particularly if you're transitioning to someone within a different party. trump was not seeking for a transition. he was seeking to stay there. that meeting speaks to the illegality of what trump was doing and the huge abuse of power that he was engaged in because he was not there to figure out how to follow the law or to pass the pa baton. he was there to figure out how to hold onto power even if it meant breaking the law. >> to say nothing of the protective cocoon that normally exists around the oval office, that people with these fringe ideas are not invited to meet face-to-face with the president. let me shift to some news that reuters has that there's new video that surfaced of yevgeny prigozhin telling wagner fighters, mercenary forces, they will no longer be fighting in

ukraine for now. this video is very dark, but reuters believes it's prigozhin's profile. we see it very briefly, his voice we hear but can't be verified in terms of its authenticity. nbc news hasn't independently verified either when this was filmed. if wagner troops are pulled completely from ukraine, how does that impact the war effort? they were on the front lines in much of eastern ukraine. >> look, there's a lot that's interesting about this video. prigozhin continues his criticism of the russian war effort. this is somebody who stood up to putin and putin said he was going to bring him to are prison essentially during that mutiny. the fact that he's now in belarus hanging out is and issuing criticisms further underscores a degree of weakness in putin. and the fact that he's pulling wagner troops out, by all indications, peter, the reason putin didn't come down hard on prigozhin, the reason he is in belarus is because putin wanted to integrate those wagner fighters into the russian war effort. they had been central to some of

the few russian victories in recent months including the victory in bakhmut. if you remove them from the battlefield, that's a big loss to the russian war effort. putin has lost face because prigozhin is out there walking around ask he's also lost real manpower that was central to the russian war effort in the last several months. this is a major development if what prigozhin says is true and the wagner guys are going to be leaving the field. >> andrea, let me ask you about this topic more broadly. i know you were with ambassador linda thomas-greenfield, the u.n. ambassador for the u.s. you spoke about whether the u.s. is losing this moral ground by sending those controversial, widely banned cluster bombs to ukraine. how did she respond? >> reporter: well, she had been one of the critics of cluster bombs a year ago, but she is justifying it because of how important it is right now in the counteroffensive given the terrain. here's what she had to say. >> russia used these munitions

against ukraine in an attack on ukraine, and we have to reind ourselves every day that ukraine is defending its democracy. it's defending its sovereignty, its independence. >> but i've got to tell you that some u.s. officials out here and certainly other officials believe because this is a gathering of world leaders, that this is really stalemated. it's a frozen conflict, and that it's going to go on for quite a while and that it's really arguable whether ukraine can really win. that's why this is so critical and why they're rushing more arms to ukraine to try told off. but one of the things that the u.n. ambassador said to me last night is -- and let me quote here -- she said that you know russia has become a pariah state around the world, 143 countries have condemned their actions in ukraine. they are on their back foot as we heard earlier, and they are

desperate. i describe them in the security council as a bully on the playground who can't get their way. so communications between linda thomas-greenfield and the russian ambassador now at the u.n. and the security council not good. as you know, russia has just vetoed the grain deal, which is going to deny grain to the world and increase world hunger. >> yeah, another key issue there. andrea mitchell on the ground at aspen, we appreciate you. ben rhodes, always nice to have you here. thanks so much. that will do it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports. "chris jansing reports" starts right now. good afternoon, i'm chris jansing live from msnbc headquarters in new york city. inside the brand new details we're learning about what exactly was in that target letter former president donald trump says he got tied to jack smith's investigation of efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. that looming indictment fueling brand new attacks on the doj