anticipating? >> absolutely. merrick garland does not want to impeach but they're playing the handay they're dealt. >> thank you very much.nk and that is going to do it for me today on this strange day. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. it is 4:00 in the east. as we come on the air we're tracking a fascinating split screen. on the one hand the disgraced twice impeached, twice indicted, legally liable for sexual is ea assault ex-president raging on truth social and whining about the possibility of more indictments during his town hall with sean t hannity. and theha other special counsel jack smith who by all accounts is calmlyy carrying on. moving o closer to potentially indicting donald trump again this time over efforts to overturn the 2020 election. just today jack smith was

spotted at a federal courthouse in washington, d.c. where a federal grand jury was meeting. and although trump hasas no pla to travel to washington this week toas testify before the special counsel, william russell, ase former white house aide of trump's who works for hiso 2024 presidential campaig will testify to the grand jury tomorrow. now, as donald trump sweats waiting for the special counsel's next move, we're getting m new insight into what jack smith may have up his sleeve. nbc news has confirmed h the targethe letter donald trump received from jack smith informing him he is the target of an investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election spells out in black and white three federal statutes related to the dep rueration of rights, conspiracy to defraud the u.s. and tampering with a witness. a and those federal statutes are not for thede faint of heart. as "the new york times" reports, the possibilities are chilling. conspiring to defraud the u.s., for example, is quote, a crime punishable by up to five years

in prison. then there's a conspiracy to submit false electors to congress, which makes false statements of crime punishable by up to five years in prison. there have also been, quote, signs prosecutors have explored potential chargesve related to wire or mail friday in the name of overturning election results. worth noting that wire fraud could beti punishable by 20 yea in prison. and that, quote, subpoenas issued by mr. smith suggest he has beensm scrutinizing mr. trump's political action committee, save america pac. it raised as much as $250 million telling donors the money was needed to fight election fraud even as mr. trump had been told repeatedly there was no evidence to back up those claims. now, we don't know yet how this is all going to turn out, whether trump will be indicted again, whenin it will happen or exactly what the charges will ha be, but for now hour by hour, the ploty thickens. joining us now to break this all

down "the new york times" washington correspondent charlie savidge. also with us former u.s. attorney and nbc legal analyst barbara mcquade, and former congressman from florida, now an msnbc contributor, david jolly. charlie, i want to start with you. walk us through these three federal statutes that are specifically cited in the target letter donald trump received -- deprivation of rights, conspiracy to defraud the u.s., andde tampering with a witness. >> a sure. well, two of those are statutes everyone has been talking about for a long time, conspiracy to defraud the u.s. and the one you're calling tampering with a witness i think is a reference to title 18, sectione 1512. and even though the title is tampering with ah witness, thap not the provision we think is going tois be used here. it's not going to be about tampering with a witness. it's going to be section "c," which ison obstruction of an officialbs proceeding. that's a charged that's been used againstha many of the januy

6th rioters. they were obstructing congress' proceedings to count the electoral college votes. that's been discussed. that was in the criminal justice to the department and that's not a surprise. the one out of left field is the civilfi rights statute that apparently is in the letter as one of the things this grand jury in d.c. has been looking at, deprivation oflo rights. and i talked to a lot of people today and we're all scratching our heads aboute what the theo of the case jack smith is working would there. whose rights are being -- it's a statute that goes back to post-civil war period where black peoplear were being prevented from w voting by sortf early ku klux klan, white supremacist stuff and the government was coming in to prevent those people from exercising their constitutional rights. and people are wrapping their heads around and scenarios like, well, is it mike pence as the guy kepresiding over the hearin or congress had some kind of

constitutional privilege that was interfered with? we don't know. that's the part that has people -- their noses up against the glass really puzzled at this point. >> barb, do you have a theory why that statute is in play? >> itu really don't. it's surprising toea me. charlie said the first two are the two discussed quite frequently. this third one not so much. if anyone's rights that have been violated here it would seem to me perhaps the electorate. so they would get state legislatures to reconvene and cast votes in their own states. that's really pure speculation on my r part, and i'd be really curious to readd this theory. and of course they may have evidence we don't know about that has not been in the public domain yet, which is why no one has speculated on that third

charge. >> or as the january 6th committee put it, the big ripoff. >> yeah, so thate reporting wa before these three statutes sort of leaked out on the letter and wire fraud was not one of them. of course there could be a superseding indictment that would bring this into play, so doesn't mean there never will be.n' we do know early in jack smith's investigation they were issuing subpoenase and questioning witnesses about the fund raising by trump's pack. they raised over $250 million from trump supporters, from donors told this is s going to tos a legal defense fund that' going toef fight election fraud and not e only had trump been td there wasn't election fraud, but they spent the money on other things. the money went to like $200,000 on 20trump's hotel properties a things like that. sure looks like jack smith was exploring mail and wire fraud for soliciting money to be

transferred tacross state line fraudulently. but if that's not one of statutes listed in this targeting letter maybe he decided that'sbe too complicate to bring or maybe he's holding it back for a superseding indictment. whoed knows. >> david jolly, we always talk about which of these pieces finally break through politically with trump's base. and you haveca to ask the possibility of his having defrauded his owng donors migh be it. >> yeah, i don't think so, alicia, simply because everything we've seen thus far suggested that won't beus the case. as between donald trump and his donors, donorsd appear to be fairly loyalto and republican lawyers are still supporting him ater a clip about 56% of the party, a majority of the party. then you move to what about republican leaders and m republican elected officials, and again we are seeing them immediately come to his defense it would seem as we sit today

there are no further indictment developments that would really -- there are questions should he go on trial and lose his n liberty, but that would likely be after the republican nomination is secured in march. i wrestle more with what does this mean forre a country that next summer may be facing a major party nominee who is either undermi indictment, faci trial potentially to lose his liberty but also on the ballot in november.bu thisba is a real possible failu point for s democracy itself in the unitedse states. the red lights begin to flash when you play out otscenario. >> an existential challenge for sure.al barb, i have a lot of questions that made me wish i actually had gotten that jd i once thought of pursuing. how does this all work? is jack smith limited by this target letter to stay within the confines of the three statutes i walked through with charlie, sore could we see much broader challenges?

>> we could. it's not limited or legally s he confining, butle i would be surprised if in this initial indictment he does go beyond it. thebe target letter is a heads and alert and invitation to say the grand jury is thinking aboui indicting you for these charges, would you like to come in and tell your side of the story. to me if the letter were limited to those etthree, i would be surprised if there were additionalsu charges in this round. what charlie said what is often the case the investigation will continue to go on. the grand jury may continue to investigate other crimes ande otherig people. sometimes some of the defendants decide they want tof cooperate so additional charges could get added in the superseding indictment. ondi the other hand, there is a case to be made on being focused in your charges. even if it's possible to charge trump with some sort of financial fraud crimes, the really big crimeim here is the conspiracy to defraud the united states and an overeffort to overturn theo election. i think sometimes prosecutors worry about throwing too much

into a case, the kitchen sink. by keeping it focused on one schemefo it seems like perhaps better strategy for making sure the jury understands the case, caner follow the case, and the trial doesn't last for months andla months. it can be stream lined and focused on what's most important. >> what do you maket' of willia russell, aof former white house aide testifying before the federal grand jury? >> yeah, it sounds like they're continuing to have at it. i'd be surprised if there's a whole lot more testimony to be taken because once you send that target letter, you know, you would only send that because there's a possibility he says, yes, i would like to come a testify. and so you would only want to send thatld when you feel like really had aee chance to talk t everybody, i had a chance to look at all the documents, i'm as educated i can be about this case, so when i get my one shot to question donald trump, i am as prepared as i can be.as so you may have some odds and ends here and there, some finishing touches that will continue, but it sounds to me like they're closes to the end.

>> charlie, your colleagues at "the new york times" reported on william n russell being subpoend by thebe special counsel last fall. russell is,el quote, a 31-year-d aide to mr. trump who served as a special assistant and deputy director of presidential advance operations in the white house. you continue to workio for mr. trump asyo a personal aide afte he left os, one of a small group of officials who did so. d the person with knowledge of the fbi's interest in russell said that itre related to the grand jury investigation into events that led to the capitol attack by mr. trump's supporters. talk me through, charlie, why russell is important, what it is that he might know. >> well,gh russell is obviously young but he's someone close to trump in terms of carrying his stuff around and being physically adjacent to him a lot. so he would h be party to one would think, a witness to a lot of conversations that trump was having with other people in those crucial months after the election as he was trying in

myriad ways to reverse his loss and block the rise of joe biden. and so i -- all i can say is i suspect they want to hear from him about what he saw and heard more than maybe what he personallyd did. that is also my speculation. >> barb, as far as we know donald trump is the onlys one have received this target letter. i want to play something else that getso into the question o who else in his orbit might receive a target letter. take a listen. >> he sat in the white house foe hours while the attack was going on at the capitol and did absolutely nothing despitean th fact thatly many people, myself included, were personally asking him to put out a statement asking people not to be violent. yet he sat there for hours and did nothing. it's not just me. it's people like mark meadows, his own chief of staff at the time, who has said despite pleas from him, from folks like his daughter ivanka trump, his

son-in-law jared kushner, and others, kellyanne conway, all asking him to act and act quickly. >> given you have all these g people, barb, who could testify to intent, what does that tell you? does it telldo you that some of them are potentially cooperating? can you glean anything from there the fact he's the only one who's received a target letter? >> well, he's the only one we know who's received a target letter. it's quite possible others have received onebl as well. i'd be surprised if donald trump is the only name that shows up on an indictment. i don't want to speculate to who but there were a whole crew of people inle the white house who were assisting in this plot. i and so i'd be surprised if donald trump is the only one. now, iton may be that some peop got that target letter and saidi yes, i would like to come in and talk with you. for example, rudy giuliani it the past eported in couple ofd weeks has gone in a spoken under what's known as a

proffer letter, which is an agreement not to use against him any statements hega says in tha meeting.n so maybe he has agreed to cooperate, and that happens when you give the target letter someone says oh, my god, don't indict me, i want to be a witness, let me tell you everything i know, and we can work out some sort of a deal. sometimes it's a momentf of trh when that happens. sometimes it comes earlier, sometimes it comes later and the case proceeds for a while and they know what they're up against. i don't know if we can be sure, but i'd be surprised if donald trump is the only name listed as ana defendant in that indictmen. >> charlie, your colleagues at "the new york times" were the first to report mark meadows the jack smith investigation in june, andt that was unsettling to trump and to his team, quote, for months people in mr. trump's orbit have been puzzled by and wary about the low profile kept by mr. meadows in thept investigations. as reports surfaced one witness after another going into the

grand jury to be interviewed by federal investigators, mr. meadows has keptor largely out sight. and some of mr. trump's advisers believed he could be a significant witness in the inquiries. i wonder, charlie, based on your reporting, the reporting of your colleagues, team frump seems to suspect or beam worried that meadows has flipped. >> i think that they are worried about him. this has been a strain for a while, where is mark meadows and what's happening that it's so quiet in that direction? obviously when we're talking about this mark meadows was really in the room when it happened. so he would be a crucial witness if he chose to cooperate with the oogovernment. he would have tales to tell, and so -- we'll see in a few weeks if this f indictment does come, what it sayss about him. but i think you're putting your finger on one of the most

interesting strands here. >> barb, another headline we're going to take a deeper look at later in the show that jack smith has, quote, requested surveillance and other security footageer at atlanta state aren which of course has to do with the falseh claims of election interference involving ruby freeman, shay moss and we know thanks to the january 6th testimony and others trump knew were false. we also know jared kushner was questioned by smith's team whether trumph' acknowledged in thehe days after the 2020 electn he had lost. the line of questioning seems to suggest that prosecutors are trying to establish whether trump was t acting with corrupt intent asng he sought to remainn power, essentially that his efforts were knowingly based on a lie. barb, all signs point to jack smith zeroing in on trump's state of mind. why is that so key here? >> for thewh crimes we're talki about here,we you'd have to sho anve intent to defraud or at let a corrupt intent.

and that means he had to know that he lost the election when he was taking all of these steps. and so how do you prove that? well, if he said out loud i know i lost the election but i'm still going to pretend i won, that would be the home run.e it's probably unlikely he actually uttered those words, but the more you can have witnesses come in y william bar chris krebs, his own campaign members, his own polling statisticians. the more people can say we told him he t lost. and becausehe we cannot read another weperson's mind it's impossible to know their intent, but we can draw reasonable inferences based on all the things they said and all the things theynd did. and so all those things will be what the prosecutors are trying to putrs together to show that donald trump did indeed know he lost the election. and i'll add one other thing, the jury would also be instructed on a phrase known as willful blindness, which is once

there's abundant evidence a fact is untrue, you cannot simply tu a blind eye and pretend it's not true. you cannot's ignore a high probability that a fact is true. >>is willful blindness indeed. charlie savage, barb muquade. when we come back top republicans in the house coming back tobl defend the ex-preside. what plans they're making to counter these potentialin charg. plus real life consequences of the big lie for those 16 trump supporters in michigan. a closer look at who they are and the very serious charges they're facing for trying to overturn a'r presidential ia election. and later in the show, more on the significance of why jack smith wants that security footage fromh a polling site i atlanta. theliit reporter who broke that story coming w up and more when "deadline white house" continues after this. re when "deadline white house" continues after this i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care.

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everyone has got one. you know the nailsoon a chalkboard song, but why is this always on the radio? how could anyone possibly enjoy this ballad. through "access hollywood, shifbl, floundering through their way through questions of justice and accountability. they've been through this a thousand times so is it any surprise they're doing it again. nbc news is reporting trump

actually called speaker kaev and conference chair elise stefanik yesterday urging them to rally support for him among gop lawmakers, that's according to two sources familiar with the calls. the results, well you know the melody. >> well, i guess under a biden administration you'd expect this. if you notice recently president trump went up in the polls and was actually surpassing president biden for re-election, so what do they do now? weaponize government to go after their number one opponent. >> we have yet again another example of joe biden's weaponizing the justice department to target his top opponent, donald trump. there cannot be one set of laws if your last name is biden and another set of laws for law-abiding americans. >> let's bring in garret haake and democratic strategist and director basil. you are one of the reporters who

got the scoop to top gop leaders. what do we know about what was said? >> i wear two hats. i cover donald trump and cover congress. i've been in the middle of this thing where sometimes defenses of trump among republican lawmakers are organic, and sometimes they're directed. and in this case it was a little bit of both are lawmakers kind of singing from the same hymnal they've been using for two indictments flow, dedefending the former president using his language about a weaponized former government. but in this case there was a proactive by donald trump to reach out and get ahead around the messaging of what's expected to be a third indictment, or at least if you believe trump's statement on truth social. and today one of those lawmakers, elise stefanik, confirmed our reporting when asked about it on capitol hill. here's what she said. >> have you spoken with former president trump since he got the

target letter. >> i speak with donald trump on a weekly basis and this is yet another example of the weaponization of the department of justice to goal after joe biden's top political opponent. >> that's the lawmaker in charge of messaging on behalf of the house republican conference. it's as close to the house republican conference moving in that direction with unanimity as you're liable to see here. and it goes with a pattern we've seen with donald trump since he was really first assuming office in 2017. he expects not just loyalty but public loyalty from his supporters. it's not enough to believe he did no wrong, you have to go out and say it on television. and we've seen many lawmakers on the hill come out and do exactly that, even bringing this up without being prompted to defend the former president. i expect that to continue to be the case well into whatever legal period we're about to enter around this case. >> gary, there's so much we

don't know about what jack smith has collected on classified documents and january 6th. any sense that stefanik or mccarthy or anyone else in leadership for that matter is actually worried about a potential forthcoming indictment? >> the short answer is no. these lawmakers have sort of made their bed when it comes to donald trump. in the case of stefanik, someone who's publicly endorsed him, all in. kevin mccarthy hasn't publicly endorsed donald trump but he's done just about everything else. he's directed the house to defend donald trump essentially in the case of the new york indictment. i mean these folks are pretty much all in. there's no backing out of this now. i think there are lawmakers who may have more skin in the game in terms of whatever happens from this jack smith investigation, someone like scott perry who was involved in the investigation, had his cellphone seized at one point may be more concerned about what's coming down the pike here. but at this point the play book

is well-worn, the talking points are well-established. and house gop and donald trump and his allies going to hold hands and jump on this one together. >> as stefanik said she talks to him once a week. david jolly, i want you to take a listen once more to kevin mccarthy and then what he said in the aftermath of the january 6th attack. >> so what do they do now to weaponize government to go after their number one opponent. it's time and time again -- the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. make no mistake those who are responsible for wednesday's chaos will be brought to justice. >> david jolly, i'd ask what happened to kevin mccarthy but it seems like a pretty rhetorical question at this point. >> it does, alicia. a shameful and disgusting moment from kevin mccarthy this week knowingly misleading, worthy of

rebuke, proving to be a speaker who brings dishonor on the house. he condemned donald trump after january 6th and his actions and words deserve condemnation as well because he knows he's being dishonest to the american people. and that condemnation should go to elise stefanik as well. and i think a danger kevin mccarthy has suggested he's willing to embark upon is this. the house republicans as a majority party has several tools to their disposal. as garret said, they have the messaging, the power of messaging, elise stefanik in particular. but we see among house republicans the willingness to use these weaponization argument louder and more consistently than any other republican actor, certainly republican senators. you can also see they're using their tool of oversight thert to wrongly bring in department of justice investigators and investigate the investigators and create false narratives around this investigation suggesting it is a democratic

witch hunt. and the most dangerous tool of all i think kevin mccarthy has already promised his caucus is to go after their opponent in joe biden and try to create a field to impeach him, though they lack the information. and though the law is not on their side, if their guy donald trump is facing indictment and possible prison time, how do they change the national conversation? they move to impeach a sitting president. that is scurrilous behavior from the speaker of the house but also republican members who follow him. >> basil, i want to read something from nbc news, our colleagues there they spoke to a veteran republican strategist not aligned with a candidate in this election who insists in an alternate universe another gop candidate like ron desantis risks condemning trump from the outset. quote, there's a way of being critical of the fbi, the doj, and the biden administration and being critical around donald trump's actions on january 6th. a candidate who didn't rub a full campaign on that but was

sure to be firm and focused that january 6th hurts donald trump in the general election would have received benefit from cycles and cycles of news coverm. i guess, basil, my question is why did no one see that happen? why did no one take that calculated risk? >> well, we didn't see anyone take that calculated risk because as david has said they're speaking or singing from the same hymnal. there's retribution that befalls them somebody they fall out of line. you have leaders more concerned about their political future than the country's future. and to david's point the speaker has the gavel, mccarthy has the gavel of the house of representatives and is unwilling to at least take a step back and say, you know what, if there's some meat on this bone we need to take a hard look at what donald trump's goal was in january 6th and make sure that it doesn't happen again. but instead of that, they do

have the bully pulpit. they do have the opportunity to message and make sure that that message is heard and articulate by every member -- every member in the house. and that's really what the problem is here, that whether you are saying that, you know, the biden administration is weaponizing the department of justice or you're not saying anything at all, you're silence is acquiescence. you're basically saying and giving license to the people who try to overthrow our government and lead this insurekds. and because of that, they're concerned about their own political future. but i also wonder as speaker are you actually protecting your candidates down ballot? if you're running for the u.s. senate and running for congress in a specific district specifically those tight districts now in new york we're able to redistrict and redraw those lines -- are you protecting your candidates down ballot? and it seems like they don't

even care about that. their only concern is making sure donald trump doesn't get mangled. >> it occurs to me we keep saying they're all sing from the same song book but that song book only seems to have one tune. coming up republicans in michigan reacting today to those 16 felony charges announced yesterday in the scheme to overturn the election. how they're trying to defend themselves. that story is next. o defend themselves that story is next

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we're getting new details about the group of 16 republicans who are facing charges for signing paperwork falsely claiming that ex-president donald trump had won the state of michigan in the 2020 election, a state that joe biden won. by having trump supporters in seven battleground states including michigan sign certificates falsely attesting that trump had won their states. according to politico, quote, the self-described electors charged including kathy berden, a long time ally of national gop chair ronna mcdaniel who was publicly cited for targeting the january 6th select committee. she was behind the bid to and also include the former cochair of the michigan republican party. he told politico in november 2020 she was conferring with constitutional lawyers about options would-be trump electors

had despite his loss in the state. we do not yet know the individual dates of each defendants' arraignment. congresswoman, does it surprise you some of these false electors are former members of the mainstream michigan republican party and in one case has a connection to rnc ronna mcdaniel. these are not fringe actors. >> no, it doesn't surprise me because we've seen this sort of evolution in michigan from a republican party, sort of your father's republican party to a very, very different thing. and certainly the number two of the cochair of the republican party is one of those who's been now brought up on charges, so it doesn't surprise us in michigan. we've seen that party continue to sort of spiral downward, and we're hoping that they hit bottom and kind of rise back into something else that's reasonable. so, no, it doesn't surprise me.

>> i think you'll agree with me that accountability here is in large part about making sure this never happens again. i want to read you about the charges from politico. nessel's office hit the group hard in terms of charges with each defendant facing one count of conspiracy to commit forgery, two counts of forgery, one count of uttering and pub accomplishing one count of election forgery and two counts of election forgery. each offense in the criminal complaint is a felony with the maximum punish ranging from five years in prison on some charges to 14 years on others. weighty charges. do you think this will deter future plots of this kind? >> well, see, it's really important to recognize what actually went on the ground, right? a ingroup of people what they've alleged to have done is create a fake certificate on our election results in michigan and send it, mail it off to congress saying, no, no, this is the correct

group or person that won the race in michigan. their plan allegedly was to have people in congress, members of congress receive that fake certificate and use it to object it to the certification of the election as we saw on january 6th. so that was the plan. the good news is we have -- in addition to these charges, and i really laud our attorney general for pushing forward and being sort of first in the nation to do this. but we also quietly passed a piece of legislation in late december that was intended to make sure this never happened again, to make sure there was only one secure certificate that could be sent off from a state, that it had security measures and that it couldn't be just one rogue congressman or congresswoman who received, you know, and objected to the certification of election. it has to be 20% of the house and the senate. so we've actually learned since this experience that you can't leave it up to chance and good will. you have to put in the law.

we did that very quietly at the very end of the year. it didn't get a lot of fanfare, but very, very important for making sure this doesn't happen again. >> so given the wild plot that you laid out there and then some details which you kindly spaerded us like a sleepover in the state capitol so they could sneak onto the sen lt floor. i want you then to listen to this from the michigan republican party, a statement they released short time ago. it says a.g. dana nessel's repeat charge of forgery and conspiracy against 16 alternative electors in michigan has sparked valid concerns. despite being recognized as a liberal this a.g. constantly displays authoritarian ambitions. your response to that. >> look, the charges have been levied. you're innocent until proven guilty. everyone will get their day in court, and if there's no there

there, they will walk. i think that's the bottom line is they will have their opportunities. but many of these folks spoke very publicly about wanting an alternative set of of results from our election. many of them were vocal about trying to get into our capitol building. even stuff you can google is out there. they will have their day in court. if they're accused but didn't do anything wrong, they ask get out scott free. it shouldn't be a problem. i think we are a nation of rules and laws. we always have to be a nation of rules and law. so people have to adhere to that law and if they don't they should be held accountable especially on something as clear and precious as our democracy. >> congresswoman, as always thank you for taking the time. up next, changing gears for us. a new campaign strategy from president biden featuring an unlikely foe. why highlighting an extremist might be working for him. that story is next. might be working for him that story is next

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♪nothing is everything♪ now's the time. ask your doctor about skyrizi, the #1 dermatologist-prescribed biologic in psoriasis. learn how abbvie could help you save. president joe biden's re-election team getting help from a recent ad from a pretty surprising source, marjorie taylor greene. a new campaign ad features remarks made by the ultra-right conservative, remarks she thought was an attack on the president. take a look. >> joe biden had the largest public investment in social infrastructure and environmental programs that is actually finishing what fdr started that

lbj expanded on, and joe biden is attempting to complete. programs to address education, medical care, urban problems, rural poverty, transportation, medicare, medicaid, labor unions. and he still is working on it. >> the president tweeting out the ad with the caption "i approve this message. basil smikle and david jolly are back with me. i didn't have marjorie taylor greene as a campaign surrogate on my bingo card, but we truly are living in the strangest of times. of course the choir is going to love this ad. does it have the possibility of breaking through with folks who, you know, we keep hearing on polling i'm not happy with either of my options? >> yeah, alicia, look, i think it does. first and foremost joe biden just keeps getting better with age. republicans like to keep knocking him, but his guy has

his game in shape for going into next november's election. i think the core of what that ad does is actually play to joe biden's greatest strength in a national election which is to draw a contrast with republicans, and marjorie taylor greene drew that contrast for the president. joe biden's essential message to the american people is i want to create ladders of opportunity for all americans to rise up in education and health care and access to jobs and transportation and infrastructure. i want everybody to grow. marjorie taylor greene wants assault rifle to be the national weapon, and she wants to impeach hunter biden even though he's not a governmental official. that contrast is a fantastic one for joe biden and it's a powerful ad, a brilliant ad. >> to the point how powerful it was, basil. the video generated 10 million views in just three hours after it was posted. they're using it to drive online fund raise. as of 1:00 p.m. wednesday it has been viewed 31 million times on

all platforms. that is the second most any biden campaign video since inauguration day behind his announcement re-election video. it would seem to affirm this is the message, take this message and run with it. >> well, absolutely. you have marjorie taylor greene comparing you to fdr who brought the country out of depression and lbj with the voting rights act, civil rights act -- elementary and secondary education act, medicare, medicaid. it's basically a commercial that tells the american people this is what democrats can do when they're in office. so, yeah, we'll take that every day all day. but here's what's also interesting in terms of the inconsistency and the hypocrisy. presumably, she did this to sort of marry her position to the nixon position, which is look how bloated your federal government is, now let's do

something different, sort of the conversation around his southern strategy and the backlash against what lbj was doing and working with urban communities to improve. however, just a couple of days ago there are reports that donald trump is trying to find ways to consolidate more power in the executive branch so that when he becomes president, he can run roughshod over agencies and presumably over the other branches of government. so in a very twisted way this is don't do what we say -- i don't know what's the word. it's do as we say and not as we do. whatever the case is. i'm all mixed up because in no world does this actually make sense. but the reality is that for -- you know, for the democrats and for joe biden he could not have gotten a better endorsement than marjorie taylor greene in that ad. >> right, because, david, part of what you realize when you strip away her usual mad libs is

what she's saying and core argument is i don't believe the government can be an engine for good, and then you have joe biden saying, well, actually it can and saying not only in word but in deed. because it's not just that he's using her to view this to talk about economic investments that have been made in places that are deep, deep red. >> yeah, look, most americans realize today that we are coming off a global pandemic that nearly crippled the economy. we are dealing with inflation and people are insecure about their personal earnings and the future of the economy for their kids. what joe biden has done since the day he arrived is said, i will help make it better for you. and marjorie taylor greene is trying to make fun of the president for doing that. if that's her course, if that's her message, great. what joe biden is saying is give the gentle lady from georgia the biggest microphone. the more she talks about my

success as president helping all americans, the better likelihood that joe biden is reflected next november. >> and a big microphone is all she ever wanted. as always, thank you both. a quick break. two new losses for the ex-president from separate judges in georgia. those headlines coming right up. those headlines coming right up. . so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh? ♪ bye, uncle limu. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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the first from a federal judge in new york rejecting donald trump's request for a new trial to the civil lawsuit brought by e. jean carroll where a jury found him liable for sexually abusing the wrater. the judge writing in his 59-page decision that trump's arguments were, quote, unpersuasive. the verdict was not a miscarriage of justice as the ex-president claimed. her attorney says she looks forward to receiving the $5 million the jury awarded her and holding trump accountable for what he did to her. this time in the hush money payments from donald trump to stormy daniels. it was denied to have the case moved from state court to federal court. in that order, the judge writing that trump has failed to show that the connell duct he is charged with is related to his official agents adds president at the time. the case will now go book to state court.

another busy day for judges handling the many, many different trump legal cases. up next for us, why jack smith is interested in security footage from an atlanta polling place. do not go anywhere. here they fell in love with the irresistible scent. ♪ ♪ huh, huh, so did their dog roger. ♪ ♪ gain scent beads keep even the stinkiest stuff smelling fresh.

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♪♪ this story falsely agencies that sometime during election night, election workers at the state farm arena in atlanta, georgia, kicked out poll observers. after the observers left, the story goes, is workers pulled so-called suitcases of ballots from under a table and ran those ballots through counting

machines multiple times. completely without evidence, president trump and his allies claim these suitcases contained as many as 18,000 ballots all for joe biden. none of this was true. but rudy giuliani appeared before the georgia state senate and played a surveillance video from state farm arena falsely claiming that it showed this conspiracy taking place. >> hi again, everyone. it is 5:00 in miami. that lie about the ballot counting in atlanta state farm arena a major talking point for the ex-president and his allies as they spread misinformation about georgia's 2020 election results. today nbc news confirming what was first reported by "the atlanta-journal constitution" that jack smith is interested in the security video they falsely used to back up their claims. smith's subpoena georgia's secretary of state brad raffensperger's office for any

and all security video or security footage or any other video of any kind depicting or taken at or near state farm and any associated data. immediately following the 2020 election, rudy giuliani called the footage the, quote, smoking gun evidence of voter fraud and the lies spread quickly and dangerously. there was no truth behind the claims. those closest to trump knew that and told him. >> the ballots under the table were legitimate ballots. they front in a suitcase. they had been preopened for feeding into the machine. we felt there was some confusion, but there was no evidence of subterfuge to create an opportunity to feed things into the count. and so we didn't see any evidence of fraud in the fulton county episode. >> i said something to the effect, sir, we have done dozens of investigations, hundreds of interviews. the major allegations are not

supported by the evidence developed. >> it's important to remember beyond the threats to democracy the state farm arena ripped lives apart. we heard the accounts of how elections be workers were inundated with racist attacks and death threats friday the former president's supporters because of lies. who can forget this moment from the january 6th select committee's hearings? >> one of the videos we just watched mr. giuliani accused you and your mother of passing a usb drive to each other. what was your mom actually handing you on that video? >> a ginter mint. >> as to why the special counsel is interested in the surveillance video, the agc reports the subpoena shows the widening from in georgia from justice department special counsel jack smith. it demonstrated growing areas of overlap between the doj probe and the fulton county investigation of interference in

georgia's 2020 elections which is expected to result in indictments against trump and others next month. coming as we learn that the target letter trump received from smith on sunday ahead of a possible indictment mentions three federal statutes. the deprivation of rights under color of law, conspiracy to defraud the u.s., and tampering with a witness. joining us to break it down, "atlanta-journal constitution" senior reporter tam ar hallerman. also with us former assistant u.s. attorney current president of the leadership conference on civil and huge rights, mya wiley, msnbc contributor alexei mchammond. why the subpoena is from jack smith, why is it so significant? >> as you mentioned, it shows the widening interest in georgia, which has had its own investigation into former president former president and his actions in the aftermath of the november 2020 elections.

there has been some over lapping interests. prosecutors came to atlanta to interview secretary of state raffensperger. both have an interest in the trump electors in georgia and the state farm video is a major interest of fani willis for over two years. >> let's stick on raffensperger. how helpful of a witness is he to the special counsel? >> well, it will be interesting to see how forthcoming he will be. of course, he has testified ad nauseam both to the january 6th committee, the testified to fulton county special grand jury last summer and also wrote a memoir about the whole saga involving him in the aftermath of the elections. you think him and his team are very much ready to move on. he has firsthand experience of what it was like to be pressured by the former president directly. there was the infamous leaked phone conversation. there are threats made to him,

his staff, people at his office in the aftermath. the november elections. >> can you break down for us legally why jack smith might be interested in the state farm arena surveillance video and could it be helpful if getting more into trump's intent? >> what it really does is establish, i think, that there is not a defense here, that the defense being, well, look, we really had a reason to believe there may have been fraud and even if we were wrong, doesn't mean we had any illegal intent, any intent, any conspiracy to, you know, defraud the united states or interfere with the vote count on presidential elections because we had real reason to believe something happened. and one of the things that jack smith and his team need to do in order to have a strong indictment is to make sure that they've also understood whether or not there are defenses here

that would weaken a prosecution. so from my vantage point, i look at this as good prosectorial investigation. it makes sure they are not seeing whether there was any legitimate interest. but it to the point of the reporting from tamar, it could be that there are additional crimes like intimidation of a witness and other things we don't have full reach or knowledge into that would create additional charges. >> also from tamar's reporting, this sort of overlap between jack smith and fani willis' investigation. could you paint a picture for us what that could like? could there be cooperation? >> there certainly could be. there is no surprise that there is overlap. that's the most important thing to know. because the acts that donald trump and his team are potentially going to be accused of -- there is no indictment yet -- but what looks like is

coming, are for the same things, it's just the same acts. trying to go and pressure a state attorney general or a governor or election workers to try to throw something his way without having actual facts that there were real votes there on the table that were for donald trump. it violates state law potentially and different federal laws. so this is not uncommon. but normally what will happen is they will figure out whether one will go -- sometimes it's a discussion about you go first. sometimes they just battle it out, you know. prosecutors, they are independent. they can do things in their own order. the federal authorities generally don't like to interfere with state prosecutions. in this case, there are strong interests for both, the state of georgia, the fulton county as well as the united states to bring their cases in a timely fashion given that neither one is going to be looking to be seen as interfering with an election.

but at the end of the day, they are going -- there appear -- they appear to be following the evidence, moving quickly and i think what we are going to see is indictments certainly from jack smith, and it may be that we see indictments sooner from jack smith. than from fani willis. >> let's talk about that backdrop that mya just referenced. the special counsel, fulton county d.a. it seems like we are inching closer to potential third and fourth indictments for the ex-president. that has not swayed his level of support in the republican party. you heard the sound from stefanik, from mccarthy, they are standing by their man. anything that would move the needle a this point? >> i mean, to your point, former president trump could be facing four separate indictments by next month. and so we talk to people who say they expect the dynamics of this primary to change 15 times over between now and when it's done, but to your point, we've seen in

poll after pom how former president donald trump continues to maintain the support with his base group of voters no matter what happens. he has been successful in casting these things as a witch hunt. the republicans you mentioned, despite saying things otherwise after january 6th, they are all defending him and coming to his support when these things are completely unprecedented. but what i do think could change things, of course, and maya was talking about this, if other attorneys general like dana nessel in michigan, arizona, georgia, other places, if they start moving and bringing criminal charges against, you know, groups of people, 15, 16 people, republicans in michigan who are just criminally charged, it's much harder for trump to say this is a witch hunt against him and the justice system is weaponized against him. it shows a concerted effort between him and all these people. i think that is something that

republicans on the hill are not going to want to defend all these other folks involved while they are still carrying trump's water. >> i just want to underscore something here. we often talk about the threats to democracy, which are big and real and existential. in this case we saw the impact the lies about the state farm arena ballot counting had on real people, on workers. take a listen to some of this. >> start my life upside down. i know longer give out my business card. i don't transfer calls. i don't want anyone knowing my name. >> there is nowhere i feel safe. nowhere. do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states target you? the president of the united

states is supposed to represent every american. not to target one. >> republicans like to talk a lot about the weaponization of government and here you see what donald trump and his allies managed to do to two americans. it is dangerous. clearly, the harm that has been done to these women. also harm tour election system. all across the country, they are having trouble getting people to volunteer for elections because who would want to do it predicated on what they watched in the last election? >> that's exactly right. and you will remember from the 20 # 2 midterms there were concerns ang poll workers that will would be groups on the right that would show up in the form of militias or show up to intimidate them in different states where things were expected to be competitive. that ultimately didn't happen. but this, you know, kind of political violence or incitement

of political violence continues. we saw this at january 6th. those two clips, they are individual aces of people whose lives are still affected by what president trump has been saying, what his allies continue to lie about, and it's not just the folks here in washington. it's across the country. >> i want to pick up on something that the agc noted. they have filed defamation lawsuits against giuliani, against others who spread allegations. they want a settlement -- they won a settlement. lawsuits are pending against giuliani and gateway pundit. talk about the protections they have against the false claims that were made against them. >> you know, this is the reality, is the defamation case, the one that they brought, one of the few. they typically are very hard cases to win. and i think one of the things that we have to look at is should citizens actually be in a

situation where, because they have been public servants, essentially stepped up to be non-partisan poll workers. not to tell people who to vote for. not to tell them what their beliefs should be or what they should support, but just to make sure people can lodge their vote, can come and show up. and to be threatened by lies, particularly if they are knowing. i mean, that's defamation. but, you know, we have to pay a lot of attention to what's happening on social media platforms and whether social media companies are actually making sure that when they see mis and disinformation that are in violation of their very policies, that they are taking it down because this is exactly why people have been threatened with violence based on lies. and all too often it's been weaponized by organized hate groups. we have to understand that. some of this is very

intentional. that's what disinformation is. we know it's wrong. we are putting it out anyway. or misinformation, people don't know it's untrue, continue to spread it. it's one of the reasons why we have heard the incredible trauma that these two women have experienced solely because they stepped up to do a good thing for our country and our democracy. so we need to make sure we are also ensuring that even those private social media platforms are protecting the community that we all need to be able to have a in a democracy. >> right, and what's chilling about that prospect is that we know that they have not sufficiently committed to doing so. i want to ask you, the two new grand juries in fulton county that were recently impaneled began this week. any updates you or your colleagues have heard about the timing of fani willis' investigation? >> no. we haven't heard anything in terms of the altering the timeline she mentioned of kind ever looking towards july 31 through august 18.

we are kind of expecting her to act within that window. of course, we have to be thinking she is closely watching what's coming out of washington and the office of jack smith. she has said these other investigations will not impact her and what she is doing in fulton county. you mentioned a potential that they could coordinate if they wanted to. so far, no signals that they have coordinated at this point. and at this point the fulton d.a. look like she is full steam ahead. >> remember, this is happening in tandem with other investigations. i want to make sure you react to the news that we led the other hour with, the letter that former president donald trump received from special counsel jack smith informing him he is a target of the federal investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. mentions three federal statutes related to the deprivation of rights, conspiracy to defraud the u.s., tampering with a witness. are you surprise bid any of that? >> not in the slightest. remember the public reporting on

this in addition to the january 6th committee itself. but the public reporting for example is that jack smith has a limited immunity agreement with two republican officials from nevada, which is one of the states where the fake electors schemed. this is the defraud the united states scheme. they have been coming up in the news. both of those, and the public record is telling us, that those two republican operatives out. state republican committee were having communications about what happens and whether their own secretary of state will play ball. this is four days before the election. not after. not after. before the election. and questioning whether she will 'do what needs to be done on claiming fraud, essentially. that's the implication of the exchanges we've seen. i mean, that's just nevada. you know, as you know, we saw

michigan with 16 fake electors now indicted by the attorney general in michigan. it's another state that trump's attorneys were targeting. georgia. so what we're really seeing is the fact that there has evidence across these states of organized, planned activity. and donald trump himself has been directly engaged, and that's not just with a call on january 2nd to raffensperger as we were discussing earlier, but even in nevada there was a references to having a call a day after the election with donald trump himself, with nose two who now have limited immunity. so all of these are pretty predictable and in this target letter it says jack smith has the goods. he is giving donald trump his last gasp opportunity to see if he has any evidence to say, no, really, you should consider not indicting me. as we know, donald trump is not going to probably appear for

that. we don't know it as a fact, but it's unlikely. he hasn't in the past. we are likely to see an indictment and it's no surprise. >> nevada, arizona, michigan, georgia. it is a reminder of just how sprawling this fake elector scheme was. as always, thank you all. when we return, we are waiting on a ruling from judge cannon in jack smith's other investigation. the mar-a-lago classified documents case. as we wait for that, there are new questions about why antiquities belonging to israel ended up at trump's florida home. we will get to that after a quick break. plus, 19 republican attorneys general want medical privacy laws to enable police to investigate whether women have had abortions. that chilling new report. and ron desantis wants to overhaul the united states military. here in florida, a similar effort didn't go so well. we'll explain later in the hour. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. n.

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special counsel jack smith's investigation? classified documents improperly stored at mar-a-lago the ultimate question is whether or not a jury will convict donald trump of any or all of those 37 felony counts. a particular focus on those under the espionage act. as we speak, there is a separate much more subtle tug-of-war playing out. one that could reshape the future of our american democracy. that is when the actual trial will take place. "the washington post" reports judge cannon appeared skeptical yesterday about trump's request that the trial be delayed until

after the 2024 election. she also seemed to be weary of a request from prosecutors that would have proceedings begin this year. let's bring in nbc news correspondent ken dilanian, maya wiley is back with us. you have been following this case. explain the considerations judge cannon is making and whether or not you think she is leaning one way or the other. >> sure. i covered that hearing down in florida which was closed to most people. i would say that the post is right. she seemed to brush aside the notion that because donald trump is running for president and he is so busy and has other trials, that they can't possibly try this case before the november 2024 presidential election. and his lawyers have also argued he can't get a fair trial because of all the media coverage. she didn't have patience for that argument. she seemed very skeptical of the justice department's desire and special counsel's desire to try this case as early as december

and seemed sympathetic to the arguments from trump's lawyers there is so much discovery, so many documents, 1.1 million pages of documents turned over to them and 1,000 days of surveillance video, that they -- you know, it's going to take a while to try this case. it would be optimistic, actually, to get it -- to get the trial even early next year. and so i am not sure where that leaves us exactly because she did appear to be concerned about moving the case along and she says she is going to rule on this -- the competing set of motions, which could be any day now. whatever she rules, she may set a trial date and that could slip because there will be motions and litigation and arguments. but there was also some really other interesting exchange during this hearing that wasn't about the scheduling so much, but about whether donald trump should be treated like any other american. david har back insisted i is a former president, he has been indicted like any other citizen, and that's where it lies and

that's a ped rock of our constitution. donald trump's lawyer said, that's an intellectually dishonest argument. he said he is different, he is running for president and being prosecute bid the administration of his opponent. in rebut al, they said that is absolutely false. he said the special counsel was appointed to be independent of the biden administration. he said it's full of career prosecutors and he tried to squash the notion that they are the biden administration in any way. it was a dramatic, you know, sort of clash of narratives that i think was really important. >> ken, you, me, maya, we are old enough to remember what jim comey's announcement did the closing days of the 2016 campaign. we are aware of what kind considerations like that weigh on judge canon's mind? >> it's not clear. her ruling in the special master situation, she imposed a special master on the search warrant

material, very favorable to donald trump and then she was overruled and slapped down by a conservative appeals court, that led people to believe she 14 in the tank for donald trump. that was a widespread belief. when you talk to people who practice before her and who are familiar with her record, they say that was anomalous and that's not the person they thought they knew and many people expect her to play this one down the middle. and so she shouldn't be really thinking about the election. the justice department has a policy about taking action before or near an election. this case has already been charged. and, frankly, what she talked about -- and she seemed very well informed about the case -- her primary concern yesterday seemed to be, you know, how many documents are we talking about, what are the discovery discuss, what do we need to do to get this stuff to the devils, what kinds of motions are going to be filed and how do we get gate that, how do we get the case moving. that was her primary stance. >> and i am going to let you

read the tea leaves on aileen cannon. i also want to talk about the topic of how bad was it. you have got new reporting from the israeli publication which suggests there are ancient israeli artifacts at mar-a-lago, quote, the archeological items were shipped from israel to the united states for a hanukkah event attended by trump then in office, a major jewish american donor according to showers sources in israel and abroad. he was invited in 2019 to a hanukkah candle lighting event at the white house. ancient oil lamps sent for the event intended to be days played briefly in washington and returned to i.d.s. the oil lamps were not displayed in the white house due to a bureaucratic difficulty raised by the americans but according to israeli sources who dealt with the matter instead of being returned to israel they got stuck in the united states. maya, what?

>> well, all i can say to that is, what? i mean, look, most people would make sure they worked this out. i don't know why the transaction happened in the first place. but to the extent it happened, i certainly don't know why it was not a process to expedite making sure they got back to their rightful place. and the real question is what's underneath that, that we don't know, because it's a very strange story. but it's also a consistent story with what we hear of donald trump keeping things that aren't his. so, the reality here, goes back to this case, which is donald trump has kept things that are not his and then in this case the allegations are very specific to not only that. he made sure nobody could get them back, that it was -- he object instruct the. that's what the indictment says and there is lots of evidence spelled out in the indictment. i think the issue here -- go

ahead. go ahead. >> well, no, because i know you are not an antiquities expert. i want to get you in on cannon which is, you know, ken was in the room, reading it expertly in the room. you have a slightly different vantage point what it is she is assessing here. >> yeah. well, look, i think ken's description is really helpful and i think what it is showing, one thing that ken shows that it demonstrates is she is beings very publicly balanced in her interrogation of the points of attorneys for both sides. right? so questioning donald trump's attorney on his ability to do this while he is running for office and being skeptical that he can't, but also pushing the department of justice on whether or not this is realistic for december. i mean, what a lot of judges would do here is say exactly what the government is saying right now, is, look, we feel like we can be ready, but we

admit it could be a stretch. so schedule it and times is when you can't meet the date you reschedule it. there is nothing in an order, to ken's point, if she schedules it in december or january that it can't be rescheduled for a variety of reasons. and trust and believe we know and we have seep this from donald trump's legal team, and it's especially in a case where it's hard to understand what the defense is going to be, they are going to throw as many potions as possible into this process and to this judge to try to delay this trial no matter what date the judge sets. i mean, her questions about the size of the discovery, as we call it, how many documents, that they are secure. she is willing trying to assess what's realistic. that's the way i hear it. but it also means she could be setting up to really delay it. >> nbc's ken dilanian, thank you for your reporting. ahead, it's come to this.

republican attorneys general this half the country want police to be able to investigate whether a woman has traveled out of state for abortion care. new reporting after a quick break. r a quick break. e my tail when that chewy box showed up? - oh, i saw it. - my tail goes bonkers for treats at great prices. sorry about the vase. - [announcer] save more on what they love with everyday great prices at chewy.

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it has been just over a year since the supreme court stripped away the constitutional right to abortion accession. gop officials are ramping up efforts to prosecute women for accessing health care. 19 republican attorneys general, nearly half of the top law

enforcement officers in the coronavirus, have signed a letter complaining about a proposed change to health privacy laws to prevent medical professionals from turning over data to law enforcement. writing, quote, the proposed rule would curtail the ability of state officials to obtain evidence and potential violations of state laws. the statute does not empower hhs to shield from authorities evidence of legal wrongdoing under state law. note, that health care is in quotes there as if we haven't heard myriad stories of women nearly dying or losing ability to have children in future because they couldn't access abortion care due to gop bans. these attempts to prosecute women from making decisions about their own bodies is one more piece of evidence that the anti-abortion rights movement has rapidly become more comfortable voicing support for cruel and extremist policies since roe was overturned. from state legislatures introducing bans without

exceptions for rape and incest to legislatures proposing bills that would put women to death for obtaining health care. the anti-abortion rights movement is saying the quiet part outloud and we should be terrified. maya, what will happen if gop a. fwnchtss get their way in this instance? >> we will see women and girls lutly facing prosecution because they were trying to take care of their health. and i say that because what an abortion is, is part of the health options available to women and girls who were pregnant for whatever reason. we already saw this before roe was overruled, by the way. there were women being prosecuted for homicide or for child abuse by, frankly, people who had their own idealogical view because they didn't like the fact that maybe they needed

rehabilitation services, because they were alcoholics or they were homeless, didn't have access to health care and may have been drug addicted, and they were being prosecuted. this is going to put that kind of behavior on steroids and be particularly focused on low-income women and women of color because any person who has means who can get on an airplane, who can travel and travel for whatever reason and whenever they want are more likely to be able to evade prosecution by going to a state that does not criminalize someone's ability to make decisions about thundershower own health care. or put a police officer between them and their doctor. and that's what's happening in these criminalization cases. we should not be blind to the fact that with 48% of latinas in states that have now abortion bans, with many, many women of color of all races and, frankly,

far too many low-mark women, this is going to be criminalizing poverty. >> i want to help paint a picture of when we talk about abortion as health care, what that really looks like. this is sound from amanda, one of the plaintiffs in a lawsuit to clarify when health exceptions are allowed. she was unable to receive abortion care because of the ban. take a listen. a warning to viewers, it's incredibly emotional and raw. >> they were monitoring the baby's heartbeat. if it stopped, then they would be able -- then they would be able to intervene. so several times i just had to listen to her heartbeat while simultaneously wanting to hear it and not wanting to hear it at the same time. >> the state says you do not

have standing because this experience means you are unlikely to get pregnant again in the future, you won't be impacted by the bans in the future. >> that's infuriating. i think it's disgusting and ironic. do they not realize the reason why i might not be able to get pregnant is because of what happened as a result of the laws that they support? >> maya, i have now interviewed immunable providers in these states. you hear the same thing. i am in the room with my patient. i need to be making a louvre or life or death decision. instead of attending to the president, i am on the phone with legal trying to understand if the case before me meets the legal threshold, the exceptions in our state. and what you have on the other side of that are women like amanda whose lives have been forever changed by the lack of clarity in some of these laws meant to have a chilling effect, meant to do the very thing that

we are watching play out right now. maya. >> it is devastating. we just saw a mother and her 17-year-old daughter now being prosecuted in nebraska because her mother bought an abortion pill online, had it mailed to her, and this is what's happening. and we knew it was going to happen if you take away a fundamental right, recognized for five decades, that allows medical care, allows doctors, allows healthcare providers to work with people around their health care. remember, and this is such an important statistic to remember, black women, black women are three likely to die in pregnant-related situations. it put folks in a position where you are threatening their lives further by not allowing, not allowing a free conversation between themselves and their

doctors about what to do about their health situation is simply immoral, unconscionable, and it absolutely should not be permitted. >> here is the thing. a lot of this is going to play out in the courts. i get that piece of it. but part of this is just bound to be electoral. you don't have to look that far back in history. to the most recent midterms you saw a lot of people coming out devoted -- people who may not even consider themselves pro-choice, right, people who just looked at what their state governments were doing when it came to abortion rights and said this is much, this is government overreach. this is extreme. what i continue to have trouble understanding is why you have republicans in so many of these states moving forward with bans that are even more extreme than the ones we've already seen political backlash to. >> i mean, we have seen time and again different examples of republicans across the country

moving out of step with public polling and where the country is and where their own voters say sometimes they are. and to your point, in the midterms we saw a huge increase in independent voters who were voting for democrats specifically because of the issue of choice. and it's not just independents who they have to worry about. i was talking about a democratic operative today who said that in 2020 and especially in '22 a successful message from veterans to other veterans was this message around i didn't fight for my country for women to lose their right to choose. and that is a group of voters that, of course, republicans want to court as well. but one, to your point, that might not be considered pro-choice voters, but have a stake this issue like so many people around the country. it's not just women. it's men. it's fanny packs. it's girls, as maya mentioned. but republicans ignore the

polling and continue to kind of double and triple down on these issues that they view as culture issues. >> and it's the girls, if that doesn't move you, i don't know what will. when we return, what happened when ron desantis tried to form his own state guard here in florida? it did not go well. that reporting after a gr quick break. go well that reporting after a gr quick break. i have lots of monthly subscriptions. streaming, music, news sites. then i went to experian. now i can see them in one place. and the ones i forgot about?

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disturbing from the start. florida republican governor ron desantis reactivated the state guard last year under broad language about its purpose and provisions to allow volunteers to carry weapons. but new reporting about the force, which reports directly to desantis, wants to bring his war against wokeness to the u.s. military, suggests it's an even bigger red flag than expected. with many volunteers quitting or being escorted out of training after raising concerns about how heavily militarized it is. from "the new york times," quote, one of the recruits described the training as more like a military fantasy camp than the practical instruction expected in topics such as how to respond to hurricanes. the volunteers said they had expected sessions on such things as how to set up distribution of water and other resources during disasters. but that training, a copy of the schedule shows, came only at the very end after classes on marksmanship and the concealed carry of weapons as well as come

bass i have class on hand-to-hand combat. congressman from florida carlos gar bello, served with ron desantis in the house. carlos, last month desantis' office said one the state guard's missions would be to ensure florida remains fully fortified to respond to not only natural disasters, but also to protect its people and borders from illegal aliens and civil unrest. your concerns about how far this could go? >> yeah, you could imagine the disappointment and the shock of citizens who probably wanted to support the government. i mean, a lot of law enforcement agencies, for example, have programs for civilians that teach ordinary citizens how they can be helpful, how they can make their community safer, and it seems like some people signed up thinking that this was a good way to give back to the state. little did they know that they were being trained, apparently,

to fight some war that doesn't really exist. so this was extremely awkward. it is strange. i think the state needs to answer some questions about what the thilg was behind this. but i can only imagine the shock that some of these people must have felt when they probably just wanted to find a way to contribute, do some community service, give back to the state. some people who walked off were former military. they were like, this is not what i signed up for. i think to your point, there is the question of what the mission was, mission creep -- i also found this part interesting. of course, zaz said that the concerns were unwarranted but "the new york times" reporting, the original plan to field 200 volunteers with a budget of $3.5 million proposed in late 2021 grew to 1,500 people and $108 million. the first year budget includes $50 million for five aircraft and 2.7 million for boats.

equipment that many experts say is beyond the budget of most state guards. i mean, again, there is the question of whether or not he is raising an army here. what the intent is here. it also strikes me, you have this person who talks about his supposed physical conservatism who is $100 million plus plan for something he hasn't clearly articulated to florida taxpayers. >> i can see the perception that the governor here was trying to raise his own personal army, and a well financed army, as that report indicates. i mean, this is not a group of volunteer going out there and trying to help during hurricanes, which i think is smart and would be wonderful if the national guard had that kind of support from ordinary citizens in our state. god knows we've needed it in the past. this sounds like a force that was ready the fight we don't know exactly who.

but certainly the more we learn about this, alicia, the more questions that are raised and the more answer we're going need from the sate, if not from the governor itself, from the people who are in charge of administering this program and organizing it, because it certainly seems extraordinary. >> carlos carbello thank you for talking all things florida and ron desantis with me. quick break for us. we'll be right back. for us we'll be right back. my mental health was much better, but i struggled with uncontrollable movements

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on january 19th, 2021, the then-president of the united states commuted his prison sentence, freeing weinstein years earlier than expected. what did weinstein do soon after leaving prison? we allege in the complaint that weinstein orchestrated this new scheme to defraud investors out of millions of dollars. >> an announcement late today from the u.s. attorney's office in new jersey on the arrest of twice convicted felon and con artist. about two and a half years ago, less than eight years into a 24-year year sentence, weinstein was one of the lucky many who received clemency from the disgraced expresident trump in his final days in office. today is the third time weinstein has been charged by this u.s. attorney's office with a large-scale scheme to rip off

investors. this one, for what the securities and exchange commission today calls a $38 million ponzi like scheme to defraud over 150 investors alongside his four coconspirators, charges that carry penalties of up to 25 years in prison. dr. donald trump granted him clemency. we'll be right back. emency we'll be right back. h! kelly cl, we have a kid... and harold. wayfair's got just what you need... performance fabrics, stains don't stand a chance. no chance! -woo! dog friendly and wallet friendly... pug-proved. get nice things with nice prices at wayfair. ♪ wayfair, you've got just what i need ♪

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thank you so much for being with us today. nicolle wallace will be back tomorrow. fear not. you can catch me again on "american voices" weekends at 6:00 p.m. eastern. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> hey, ari.

>> hey, alicia. thank you so much. welcome to "the beat." tonight, we have it, special counsel jack smith's list of evidence for the new crimes allegedly committed by trump while president. these are the three federal statutes that the doj cites in its target letter warning trump of another possible indictment. you're looking at the actual outline of this case. this is brand-new. we're talking about conspiracy, witness tampering, and deprivation of rights in then outgoing president trump's failed coup. two sourcesli news about doj listing those crimes in the target letter which trump himself leaked, which has created all this interest this week in whether he'll face a second federal indictment. these suggest details about the case jack smith is building. i'll go through a few key points and bring our leddoff legal expert, a veteran of the doj's criminal division and who knows jack smh'