we do a news show from the road. >> got called in. >> you feel great, but i would be more happy if he was with us. >> from brooklyn? we in brooklyn. >> if it's friday it's -- >> time tafall back. >> those are some msnbc viewers who get the last word tonight. you can follow us on ari melber at tiktok, or just tune in whenever you feel like it. "the reidout" is up next. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> and we fight. we fight like hell, and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. >> william russell, a white house aide who was at trump's side, just before he delivered those remarks on january 6th, meets again with the grand jury as special counsel jack smith's criminal investigation enters its final stages. also tonight, the summer that

american labor took a stand, hollywood actors and writers are on strike, and flight attendants and u.p.s. workers could be next. >> plus, culture war battles. the right is choosing to fight, backing a music video that proposed gun violence and attacking, i am not making this up, barbie. i'm jason johnson in for joy reid, and we begin tonight with just a few hours left in the day, donald trump says if the deadline set by special counsel jack smith for the twice impeached, twice indicted former president to appear before the grand jury to investigation his alleged efforts to overturn the 2020 election. that's what he told us. it was in a target letter he received over the weekend. as far as we can tell, trump has remained at his new jersey golf club. but that should be no surprise. today, the grand jury did hear from a former white house aide who now works for trump's 2024 campaign. william russell was with trump for much of the day on january 6th. you can see him there on the ellipse beside trump before the former president addressed the

crowd. it is not russell's first time appearing before the grand jury. begging the question, why he was asked to return, making it all the more interesting is the fact that russell was never interviewed by the january 6th house committee last summer. remember that committee interviewed like more than 1,000 people, but somehow, russell was not on that list and his name wasn't even mentioned in the committee's final report. there are still a lot of other questions surrounding this case, including when or if trump will be indicted and if he is, what's going to get charged with. we know at this point there are three key statutes mentioned in the target letter that could guide charges against trump. there are also questions surrounding all of the other involved in the efforts to try to overturn the election. might be cooperating with the special counsel and who else could find themselves facing charges. this is a lot, so i have a fantastic panel to start off tonight. joining me is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, university of alabama professor, and msnbc

legal analyst. michael steele, former rnc chair, msnbc political analyst, and hoist of the man of steele podcast, and brian tyler cohen, host of the no lie with brian tyler cohen podcast and msnbc contributor. we have a lot to talk about tonight. joyce, i'll start with this. i like most of america was riveted last summer by the january 6th hearings. it was one of the most highest rated things on tv. it was amazing to see that kind of civic engagement from people across the united states. it is amazing to me that this william russell guy was not included in anything last year, but jack smith has found him. just from a legal standpoint, i mean, is he crossing a t and dotting an i we haven't seen before? is there something that jack smith might have gotten access to that the january 6th committee couldn't? i'm just curious as to what the significance of this is from a legal standpoint because i'm surprised this guy was overlooked? >> we don't bow for a fact he was overlooked.

it's really a curious situation, but federal prosecutors have a power that others don't. they have the subpoena power. and that means that throughout this process, jack smith has been able to obtain testimony from people he wants to hear from and that the january 6th committee may not have had success with. it's very likely that along the way, prosecutors were doing as they do, asking who was there, what was said, and in the course of illiciting that information with witnesses, this name may have surfaced as someone to talk to. the reporting is he was at trump's side throughout that day, and something that prosecutors will be looking for are casual comments made by the president in the course of the day. did he acknowledge being aware that he had lost the election? did he perhaps say that he was happy to see violence, that he hoped violence would help him hang on to the presidency? lots of value in a witness like

this if, and it's a big one here because he's represented by lawyers representing other people in trump's inner circle, but if he will tell the truth, prosecutors can learn a lot of interesting information. >> michael steele, you know, the more people who end up getting caught in this web, the more i think to myself, if i'm a self-serving elected official, if i am a republican, i am at least coming up with a plan b. right? plan a is stay loyal to trump. attach yourself to him like a barnacle. if he goes down, maybe you jump off at the last minute. smart people have a plan b. you don't stay in politics 20, 30, 40 years without a plan b. what is the plan b right now behind the scenes for republicans if this goes left? if one of these three massive investigations against president trump ends up convicting him and it's a really ugly charge, worse than anything we have seen before, what's the plan b behind the scenes? >> well, the plan b is that --

that's about it. >> plan b, b for bounce. i'm going to bounce. i'll be out? >> i gave you plan b, we out. drop the mic. no, look, the bet is on trump. the bet has always been on trump. you know, the plan b started with desantis, but that plan b was developed and put in motion not by the base but by the moneyed interest in the party, the high-end billion-dollar donors. they established that the base quite frankly has a beef with. they are the reason they tacked to trump back in 2016. so now, for them to have a plan b that you think this base is going to go, okay, they got our guy, our messiah, right, our moses, the man who has led us to the promise land, that they're going to go, all right, we're going to buy into your plan b. that's not how this is going to play out.

this is ride or die for a lot of these folks. which is why you see the level of commitment that you have from the base. yeah, you have some of the principals now talking, but what are they actually saying? and are they more weisselberg than they are cohen? are they going to go down for trump or are they going to give up the goods on trump? and so my bet is you're going to have less giving up of those goods by these individuals and more going down with trump, which means that the party's got to roll in that direction and deal with the outcome should this thing come to a head before november of 2024, which a lot of us doubt it fully will. and quite honestly, that's a big bet that the trump team is making. and we're all watching judge aileen in florida, for example, so there's a lot of road to give

these folks room not to necessarily have to go to a plan b because plan a is working out so swimmingly. >> brian, so this is the thing that always gets me about this. we have these highfalutin conversations. we talk about indictments and jack smith and everything like that. i'm a college professor at morgan state university. when i talk to 18, 19-year-olds who live their entire lives on instagram and tiktok, only some of this trickles down. i'm fairly comfort if i talk to zoomers and young millennials, they don't even know who jack smith is. how much of this trickles down? how much of these sort of week in, week out details about these investigations are trickling down, and how is it being consumed by sort of younger viewers and zoomers and things like that? >> i think the younger generations have a much higher proclivity to engage with this stuff than before. just with social media unto itself, we're able to consume so much more than we used to. how many kids when even i was in school were picking up the newspaper to figure out what

happened? this stuff also impacts us. to claim that politics doesn't have a massive impact in our lives with everything happening with abortion, with these don't say gay laws, with the lgbtq bans, with interstate travel bans happening in certain states. to claim that these things don't have a massive impact on young people's lives is defying reality. >> and here's the thing, i also think that you can get more interaction now. like, there was a time writs rr like, hey, i'm going to write my congressman, and maybe he or she will write me back. but if i can scream at somebody directly on twitter or what's left of twitter or tiktok, there's a lot more interaction a young voter can get today than in the past. >> it doesn't seem like such a nebulous concept as it did in the past. a lot of these especially younger democratic congresspeople and senators are very happy to engage and happy to interact with their constituents and just people online. they are -- i guess that's the difference between what it used to be. a lot of them are younger anyway. they have grown up in this age

of millennials and gen zs. this is the new normal. they shouldn't be this elitist club where they don't have interaction with people, because at the end of the day, we're the people with all the power. >> it's funny, i remember back in my young intern days when it was like literally trying to get member of congress to get emails was difficult. with that in mind, i want to play sound, joyce, about what is actually going on with some of the other people who were heavily involved in this process. so we have -- we have william russell. we're also finding out things about mark meadows. i wand to play this sound from george conway on mark meadows. >> i also think the last possibility to me has always been the most intriguing, which is there are -- are there people who are cooperating? we have seen some very strange quietness from, for example, mark meadows. i just have the feeling something is going on there. i mean, he's someone who ought to be every bit as exposed as donald trump. yet he's been so quiet and it

just seems like there's something up with him. >> joyce, i don't know if silence means guilt. i don't know if silence mean he's trying to lie up his life for a long time in jail in a jumpsuit. i don't know, but is there something to this, the fact that one of the main conspirators, somebody who was intimately involved in the process at least legally trying to overthrow the 2020 election, that he hasn't been on the talk circuit, that we haven't heard that much. we know he's testified, but he's been kind of quiet. >> he's been awfully quiet, and i think george is an astute observer here. mark meadows is someone who in some ways makes his living by promoting himself and his work, his book on television. it's surprising to have seen him go to radio silence. that's something that we often see with people who have struck a cooperation deal with the government. that's not the only conclusion that we could reach here. he could simply be trying to keep himself out of it with a

low profile, knowing he does have considerable exposure. but the reality is that mark meadows was in the mix. he appeared to be the gate keeper and the coordinator for much of the planning that went on in advance of january 6th. he would be a possible target or at least a subject of the government's investigation. and if he has in fact agreed to cooperate with the government, he, too, would offer very high value. he's probably the most important cooperator that the government would be able to land because of his access, and not only his conversations with the former president, but his constant text messaging with all sorts of people, including a lot of the lawyers who have been identified as part of the fake slates of electors planning and the efforts to use the justice department to perpetuate the big lie and the notion that there was fraud in the election when there wasn't. it's a very interesting absence from the public square for mark

meadows. >> interesting that we're living in a day and age where a president could be taken down from text messages and dms. my distinguished panel is sticking around because there's a lot to discuss. "the reidout" with jason johnson sitting in continues after this. what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need. that's my boy. ♪ stay off the freeways! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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my panel is back with me. joyce vance, michael steele, and brian tyler cohen. brian, i'll start with you. you make these very, very

interesting, easily digestible videos sort of enlightening us as to what's going on in politics. i want to play a clip of you fact checking marjorie taylor greene and the significance of that in our current environment. >> what jack smith is doing is the weaponized government. and he's weaponizing the department of justice against president trump in a complete lie about president trump and january 6th. >> so apparently, the weaponization of government isn't an entire political party rushing to the defense of a politician who attempted to use the levers of government to illegally retain his power, who tried to push the vice president into saying he won an election he lost, all that is fine, the real weaponization of government is an independent special prosecutor seeking to hold that politician accountable for his crimes and adhering to the principle no one is above the law. did i get that right? >> so look, we know marjorie

taylor greene is off. i don't even use the nicknames for her because look, there are several hundred thousand dollar people who think she's doing a good job. but when you break down lies and hippocacy, what is it doing to our body politic? >> her voters don't care, republicans don't care. are there still people out there who need to know she's crazy? >> one important element of the marjorie taylor greene, is a lot of members of the republican party have tried to do what they can to enable her to be the face of the party. if they're going to push someone so extreme, so willing to lie to be the face of the republican party, the last thing i'm going do is sanitize that. i'm happy to feature her on my videos and debunk the lit an of things she says. >> the republicans, it doesn't help you when you're going to the voter booth and trying to get people much more engaged in the process than they used to be. with that in mind, michael, i

want to turn to you. one thing i see, i have said this all along. i don't think they're a party bm. they're a dime store front for an organization called maga, but i will say this to you. to the degree republicans in congress are trying to do anything, it doesn't seem like it turns out to be much policy. it seems to be sort of revenge against existing government officials, revenge against agencies, and now this crazy new plan to expunge trump's impeachment. i want to play you -- i want to play you mccarthy's audio and get your thoughts about this on the other side. >> i'm very clear, i voted against impeachments including for purely political purposes. no deal. >> michael steele, to me, voting for expunging an impeachment doesn't make sense. that's like when you take a championship back from a team for cheating. we all watched it.

we know you won. it doesn't matter if you take back the trophies. what is the logic for republicans in trying to expunge an impeachment, two of them in fact, we have all seen? what is mccarthy even talking about here? >> because donald trump called him and told him that's what he wanted him to do. this is how this works. this is not complicated. it's what the man wants. so that's what we're going to do. policy, we haven't done policy since 2015. even before that. i think the last republican administration to do anything remotely close to policy was the bush administration. whether it was on immigration or other things that people, you know, rightly debated back and forth on, democrats and republicans, on the war, et cetera. what's our debate been since then? it's not been about policy. it's been about the objectifying of political figures, owning the libs, you know, crushing the

biden crime family that we made up one night because, you know, someone had way too much bourbon. so the reality of it is this is what it is. and it doesn't matter what, you know, you say or think about it. it's what they're doing. it's how they're going to execute their strategy. >> i have always thought this whole biden crime family thing sounds like a bad spin-off on starz, it doesn't fit. brian, you said you had a thought about this whole idea of expungement. >> this is part of this recurring theme of denying reality. for republicans, just like donald trump denied the reality of his loss in 2020, they're doing it again by trying to pretend here that he wasn't impeached twice, even though to your point we all saw it, we all know he was impeached twice. they want to traffic in this fairy tale. i think at the end of the day it's important for us to recognize that while they may be perfectly content to lie to themselves, the rest of us can see the truth.

>> we don't want to be lied to on a regular basis. we deal with that enough from all sorts of other outlets. i want to make sure we close on this. it's really important. "the new york times" says potential charges include civil rights law used in voting fraud cases. i don't have a lot of confidence in the supreme court like most americans at this particular point. if it comes down to part of these investigations, part of these charges against trump have to do with him violating civil rights laws, do we have much of a chance tat we have a legal system right now if it gets up to scotus that would actually recognize and respond to that? or are we going to have to try to get trump at a lower level for any of these potential charges to stick? >> this is such a great question, jason. and it's something that you and i have discussed before. you know, getting a conviction against a defendant, part of that happens in the trial courtroom in front of a jury. but the real final chapter doesn't happen until the conviction is taken on appeal. and the question is, do you have

a conviction that can be sustained. so you can be certain as jack smith evaluates his potential charges, something he'll be deeply concerned with is whether there is a strong legal basis. an adequate body of law that supports the charges that he's going to bring on these sorts of facts. and that's the context in which this conversation about 18 u.s. code 241, the civil rights statute, that we're told smith intends to use, of course, that's very likely coming from the trump camp, no other place we would be learning the contents of this target letter. but if that's the case, the question is will it work? and yes, there's a strong body of law. it's a good contender. >> joyce vance, michael steele, and brian tyler cohen, thank you all so much for starting us today on "the reidout." for more of brian's digital content, head to msnbc.com/btc, still ahead, summer of strikes, picketing and protests that can

only mean one thing. workers are finally fed up with paltry paychecks as ceos rake in millions per year. we'll be right back. scrolling) they're off from school, but not really home. images and videos. social media, fine-tuned to suck them in. and steal them away. alone you can't stop it. together we will. join us. ( ♪♪ )

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it's hot strike summer throughout the country, with more than 650,000 american workers threatening to go on strike. they're sag-aftra, actors who recently joined screen writer in

demanding fair compensation for work and not being replaced robots. comcast, the corporation that owns msnbc's parent company, nbcuniversal is one of the entertainment companies representing the studio they're striking against. and some employees of nbc universal are also represented by the writers guild. broadway appears to have narrowly averted a strike today with crew members reaching a tentative agreement over salary and rest periods hours after the union announced a vote to walk out. workers at various starbucks and amazon locations have also held strikes over the past month. but the biggest disruption to american commerce could be u.p.s. drivers who could strike by the end of the month, possibly affecting at least 30% of packages sent in this country. oh, and in case you forgot, there's also the transportation industry. the union representing american airlines flight attendants who haven't received a pay raise in years will hold a vote over the

next month to decide whether or not to strike. and the united autoworkers could follow suit in the fall. joining me now to discuss all this is ro khanna of california, a member of the congressional labor caucus. congressman, thank you so much for joining me. look, i don't think we have seen something like this since like 1877, when there was like massive labor strikes throughout the country. this is significant, and being on the committee that you're on, i'm sure you're in touch with these unions, you're in contact. you know, industries around the country are communicating with gres what's going on with them. what do you think has caused this sort of hot strike summer? we're seeing so many different protests and so many different strikes across disparate industries. do you think there's a core cause or are people just getting fed up? >> the working class is tired of losing in an economy for the past 40 years. the working class has lost 25%

of wealth since 1985. i was just with president shaun feign this morning, the president of uaw. his point is very, very valid. he's saying, the government is giving billions of dollars to these companies, big three, the automakers, they're making tremendous profits. workers shouldn't just be paid $16. they should be paid the wages they were paid when they worked in the auto industry under electric vehicles. i met with the folks at the teamsters union. they're saying look, when you have part-time workers, part-time workers shouldn't just be making $13, $14. these aren't the u.p.s. drivers who come to your house who are often paid well. these are folks at airports and warehouses and they're being treated awfully. they need to be paid fairly. and then, the actors and writers, i have been out with them and what they're saying is 87% of them make less than $26,000. pay them so they can at least afford to get health care. >> you know, congressman, i want

to go down industry by industry. we'll start with the actors. one of the key issues, you know, when we talk about autoworkers we say, hey, automation, it's going to put people out of work. but one of the things that screenwriters and actors are talking about is artificial intelligence. everybody called it a.i., i call it plagiarism machines because you can't have a.i. unless it's drawing from things that already exist. and what we have seen is not just a matter of actors saying hey, i don't want a studio to take my image and then re-create it to continue seven series of a show that you're no longer paying me for. it's not just writers saying i don't want you to create an a.i. script using things i have written before and not pay me for it. what they're also pointing out is the fact that the corporations and studios, they don't even want to talk about a.i. what do you do when you're sort of looking at these labor conflicts, what do you suggest or advise in situations where the employer doesn't even want to talk about innovation with the labor that could be replaced

or lose their salaries because of it? >> as a representative from silicon valley, i understand a.i., and the workers, the writers, the actors are absolutely right to say they should be part of how a.i. is used. there are two central concerned. one which you alluded to, which is if you're going to feed information into this a.i. magic box and then it's going to spit out new content, the content that you're feeding in, that should be compensated. and writers are writing scripts, if they're writing plays and a.i. is just tinkering with it, those initial scripts need to be compensated. the second thing is you don't want a.i. replacing writers because what that's going to do is devolve the standard of entertainment. a.i. can't write ted lasso, it can't quite succession. it probably could write bad reality tv. writers are saying, loorx look, we want to have human input.

if we can use it for our advantage, we shouldn't be subjugating the entire country to a.i. written products. i think they're very reasonable. >> this real quick before we run up to break. one thing that got me about u.p.s. workers, one of the basic things they're asking for, they just want air conditioning in their trucks. we're having one of the hottest summers on record. talk about some of the basic things people are asking for. that's not crazy, is it? >> it's not crazy. they want air conditioning. i mean, in texas, my colleague is going to be out in front of the capitol steps saying that people should have a working law that you get drinking water. can you imagine the governor there is taking away the requirement to give workers drinking water in this heat. and u.p.s. drivers are saying, have air conditioning, have breaks so we can be healthy. workers have had enough. they understand this country hasn't been working for them for 40 years.

good for them for standing up and the american public is behind them. many in congress are behind them and i hope they're going to finally make change so they get what they deserve. this isn't asking for charity. they're creating value and that value is not coming to them. they deserve what they're asking for. >> congressman ro khanna, thank you so much for joining us on "the reidout." >> thank you. florida ramps up its war on reality with a new school curriculum touting, i am not making this up, the benefits of being a slave. jason johnson on "the reidout." we'll be right back.

free housing, perment employment and all you can eat corn bread. florida department of education wants you to see that and think maybe slavery wasn't so bad. it's one thing for racist legislators to try to erase history, but they decided to rewrite it. florida middle school students will be taught that slavery gave black people a personal development as they, quote, developed skills. skills they weren't paid for. meanwhile, high school students will be taught that a deadly 1920 attack against black residents of okosi, florida, was perpetuated by african americans as well as white people.

what else is going to be admitted? ku klux klan members and other white supremacists who had support from local government to stop residents from voting, that isn't going to be included. it's no wonder a liberal arts college in florida is facing a massive resignation. new college of florida is losing a third of its faculty, according to the tampa bay times. many of the teachers and researchers are frustrated and dismayed by the school's new conservative leadership. joining me to discuss all this is kimberly crenshaw, law professor and executive director of the african american policy forum. her new book "say her name, black women's stories of police violence and public silence" came out this week. we're going to discuss that too in a moment. i want to start with this. as an academic, i'm a professor at morgan state university. you're teaching at multiple universities. what is the sort of negative long term consequences of what we're seeing in florida?

what does it mean to dumb down the education of children at a high school level and then back that up by threatening professors at the university level? what does it do to a state, to a community? >> well, absolutely, this is the end game that we have been talking about for the last two years. the anti-woke cabal is moving from we weren't responsible for the bad thing, to it wasn't that bad after all. this is the exemplary example of what happens when you apply both sidesism to the brutality of american enslavement. this is basically saying, look, slavery was, you know, sort of complicated. yeah, people were owned by other people, yeah, we were able to work them to death. yeah, slaves existed for the pleasure and the profit of

individuals. but on the other hand, there is no other hand. right? there just is no other hand. but this is the game that they have been playing. trying to both sides racism and white supremacy, trying to unname it, and then trying to indoctrinate our children into believing that the past wasn't so bad. so there's not much we have to do about it today. this is what anti-wokism is all about. >> and one of the key things is that psychologist research and academic research has shown teaching white children about the true history of this country and racism and violence against black people, what it tends to lead to is greater empathy towards others. it does not lead to a sense of guilt. it does not lead to white kids coming home and crying to their parents. it's their parents who are crying, not the students, right? >> this is exactly what tim wise was saying. we were on a panel last weekend, and he pointed out, look, if you tell the true history, the full history of american society and

the efforts to remake it, you have stories about white people who were on the right side of history. you have stories about white people who said, i'm not going to participate in this system that dehumanizes other human beings. so if you are worried about how your children are going to think about white people, you're not teaching the white people who actually were on the right side of what this american country could actually be. >> professor crenshaw, your latest book is specifically focused on women and african american women who have been victims of vigilante violence and police brutality and violence. there's a page showing some of the photos and names of black women killed by state violence. tunisia anderson, maya hall, a black transgender woman who was killed by the nsa in baltimore days before killing freddie gray. talk about the significance of this book and why we have to make sure that we don't sort of

fall into the trap of, you know, all blacks are men, and all women are white. we need to talk about the intersectionality of state sponsored violence against people of color. >> you put your finger on exactly the conceptual gap that black women and girls who are victims of anti-black police violence fall into. look, we need people to know and understand that black women and girls and femes are all subject to anti-black police violence. full stop. this is not an exclusively male phenomenon. yet because the frameworks that we have are non-intersectional framework, we tend to think only men when we think about police violence. but the reality of black girls as young as 7, black women as old as 93, have been killed by the police. they have been killed having a mental health episode. they have been killed in their

homes. all the same kind of things that happen while black, our brothers experience, so do our sisters. this book calls attention to the full scope of anti-black police violence to make a more holistic approach to understanding the vulnerabilities so we can fix the problem. >> kimberly crenshaw, thank you for all the work you do. appreciate you joining us tonight on "the reidout." >> pleasure to be here. conservatives open up a new front in the culture war rallying around -- surrounding singer jason aldean after his pro-vigilante violence video gets yanked from country music television. we'll be back to discuss in a second. you should get a second opinion from innovation refunds at no upfront cost. sometimes you need a second opinion. [coughs] good to go. yeah, i think i'll get a second opinion. all these walls gotta go! ah ah ah! i'd love a second opinion. no. i'm going to get a second opinion.

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maga republicans like to censor minority communities in america. they say they don't want woke ideology shoved down their throats, so they do things like canceling bud light for sending a can of beer to a trans influencer. -- they canceled target because it dared to sell pride month merchandise, and they outlaw drag leans because they don't like something the people have been doing for centuries. now they're going after the new barbie film, which folks over on fox claimed pushed, quote, toxic femininity and china, i kid you not, according to senator ted cruz, barbie is a

pro china propaganda because of a map depicted in the film. >> i have not seen the movie. i have just seen the stupid map. this is really designed for the eyes of the chinese censors and they're trying to kiss up to the chinese communist party because they want to make money selling the movie in china. >> canceling has become their thing, but don't dare say a peep about the new music video from country singer jason aldine, which says this. pass out of calk, spin his face, stop on the flag and lighten up, yeah, you think you're tough, got a gun at my granddad gave me. they say one day they're gonna round up, well that stuff might fly in the city. good luck. try that in a small town. music video shows all been interest spliced with news clips of protests out of context that promotes vigilantism and was formed and firmer the maria county courthouse in tennessee, the

site of the race massacre and the 1927 mob lynching of an 18 year old black teenager. i guess he doesn't know that because many conservatives are canceling black history as well. joining me to discuss is democratic strategist and contributor to the los angeles times and juanita tolliver, msnbc political analyst and ghost of crooked medias what a day podcast. kurt, i'm going to start with you. you are my country music sure by. we went to the academy of country music awards earlier this year, and this is your area and i think i've learned i'm wearing the same blazer. can you put this in context here. what is jason aldean talking about? i understand a hokey small time life is different from the big city. i get that. it's a common thing in country music. but why are people so angry about? it and why is he getting so defensive, seemed it seemed like an obvious dog whistle about what he wanted to talk about. >> i think number one what he's

talking about is this conservative right wing fantasy that everybody else is after them to take things from them, that you have to protect your, quote unquote, small town values because those big city elites are going to take things from you and the things that you see in big cities, wherever those are, they apparently don't happen in small towns. let me point out for the record that i think uvalde texas is a small town where a gun massacre happened, but be that as it may, that's the terminology, the vocabulary, and a culture war rift to that we are seeing turn into melody and music. it's designed to provoke a conversation, cell records, sell streams, and that's what's going to happen. it's not an accident that within 24 hours of this controversy rub thing that the song is music video worth number one on itunes. >> juanita, here's the thing. i actually don't have a problem

with music being controversial. that's what music is. that's what our ears. it's not supposed to always be something but i think the concern that people were criticizing the song we're having is well, we are now in a society where people take this kind of music and they act upon it. they feel galvanized by. it they feel that this is a rationale for vigilante violence. is that something that we need to take into consideration that maybe some of the people vigorously defending country music don't realize it's not an attack on the genre. it's questions about the impact of this kind of music. >> not even questioned. you've drawn the through line, jason. there's evidence that demonstrates that's what happens and so to reject that is to gaslight the rest of us, to pretend it's, oh, we're just making this up, we're imagining. it now, like you said, the history that he chose to film in front up to play that back in retrospect is ridiculous. other republicans backing him up or buying into that same reality of, okay, we're going

to do racist things. we're going to do harmful things that targeted violence for black and brown people or anyone different from us and then tell them it's their fault. that the energy that comes through in his video and song. i knew something was up based on the title. i know what a sign downtown is. it's always like, yeah, this ain't for me at all. >> juanita, i'm gonna stay with you for a bit. and then give full disclosure. i have a 1983 black barbie doll who was an astronaut. the deal was made before may jemison was the first black woman in space. i gotta ask you, republican saying oh my gosh we hate the barbie movie. juanita, what does that say? are they so bankrupt for ideas that they want to run after this dahl? if you wanna make the argument that barbie dolls are made in the country and they're not american enough that's one thing with the idea that barr bardi's chinese propaganda seems like a bankrupt parking party looking for a way to stay

in the news. >> this is a fight for relevance. what ted cruz is doing is trying to latch on to the latest big cultural phenomenon moment to try to be relevant. but the reality is, nobody likes ted cruz. and people are gonna like him for attacking barbie. so you can move from barbie to big bird to bob light and ted cruz, we still don't like you. >> [laughter] kurt, this is the other part of this it still shocks me. i did this whole break down on my podcast talking about the history of black barbie, the importance of these kinds of images to young people. when you see republicans attacking big bird, attacking toys, attacking beloved cultural characters, doesn't make them seem out of touch? doesn't make them seem like a bunch of stick in the minds when everybody else is trying to find something to do in the middle of the summer to brighten their days in the middle of a 95-degree heat? >> yeah, because i also think that when you admit these kind of attacks against toys and

puppets i think it leaves a lot of parents wondering, why are you spending so much time, energy, oxygen, talking about these superfluous things when at the same time we are worried to death that our kids are gonna come home from school alive because they're gonna get shot at today. and you have nothing to say about anything like that. you have nothing to do about making sure that we have a safe environment for our kids. it's hilarious to watch these republicans talk about being pro-life, about children and making sure that they have the writing books on toys and cultural items, yet they don't want to lift a dam finger to do anything to keep them alive. >> kurt bardello and juanita bolivar, thank you so much for joining us on the readout. if you want to learn more just see the movie this weekend. check out my podcast, a word with jason johnson on slate. for more on the history of barbie. i'm joined by luxuriant davis, writer producer and creator of the new film black barbie, a documentary. it's really fun. i learned a lot.

you'll definitely enjoy it. that is tonight's read out. joy returns tomorrow celebrate the readouts birthday. all in with chris eight hayes starts right now. starts right now >> gleaming from washington, d.c.. i'm ali velshi in for chris hayes. don trump's attack on democracy was death by 1000 cuts. the ex presidents plan to steal the election had so many components, from the lies about fraud and the pressure on state and federal officials, to the fake electors scheme and the final desperate sticking of the mob on the capital and with all of that came so many characters. names we now know well like rudy giuliani, sydney powell, john eastman, as well as plenty who are still relative strangers to us. now take it individually none of these pieces or people seem at all that important. on their own none of them would have succeeded in toppling american cr