that is six pm, right here on msnbc. on that note i wish you a good night, i am alicia menendez in for stephanie ruhle. for all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late. i will see this weekend. s weekend. former president trump had in till today to appear before it's special counsel's jack smith's jury to tell his side of the story. as far as we, know that has not happened. mr. trump did not take jack smith up on that offer. but someone else did speak with the special counsel grand jury today. he is not a household name. the house january six committee never even interviewed him. but clearly this individual was in a position to know something. his name is william russell, the

only photos we have of mr. william russell are ones where he's in the background of trump events. that makes sense because mr. russell was what is known in the political world as an advance man. his job was to coordinate president trump's movements, his literal movements, from one location to another. and to go ahead of the president to make sure everything was set up. he went in advance of trump, thus an advance man. and that makes william russell a potentially huge witness when it comes to january six. here is muscle with president trump and trump's chief of staff, mark meadows. on january six -- at the ellipse before trump's big speech that day. you may remember from the house january six investigation that there was trauma in that -- before trump won on stage. trump was angry that the crowd was too small. he was mad that security was turning people away if they had weapons. he wanted people inside the ellipse so that they can cheer him on. but trump's anger wasn't directed at his supporters that were showing up armed. his anger was focused on

the presence of -- the metal detectors. and the group he was directing this anger at included his advanced team. >> the advance team relate to him that they were free flowing, anyone that wanted to come and had already come in. but he was still angry about the extra space and wanted more people to come. >> i wasn't the sandoval conversation where we heard the president say something to the event of, i think they have weapons. they're not here to hurt me, take the effing backs away, and march to the capitol from here, let the people in, take the effing mags away. >> that incident could certainly be something special counsel smith would like to learn more about today from william russell, the knowledge of how armed the crowd was on january six. and trump's desire to lead and that armed crowd. but then there's what happened

after trump speech at the ellipse on january six. trump wanted to make what's known as an off-the-record movement. -- to the capital itself. the president has on the record movements meeting travel from one destination to another. that's put on the presidents official schedule for the press each day. but a president can also make off the record movements, or travel from one destination to another without alerting the price. but those types of movements on the record in off the record are something that an advance man might be a part of. and this particular off-the-record movement, trump physically going to the capitol after his speech, this movement had been debated at the white house for days. the white house lawyer pat cipollone warned cassidy hutchinson repeatedly not just that he thought it was a bad idea but that it can get everyone involved in it in deep legal trouble. >> mr. cipollone said something to the effect of please make sure we don't go up to the capitol, cassidy, keep in touch with me. we're gonna get charges of every crime

imaginable if we make that movement happen. >> do you remember which crimes mr. cipollone was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the sixth, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral town. >> obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral count. wow, yesterday nbc news confirmed the three statutes mr. trump has been warned about and the target letter. -- jackson. and one of them is conspiracy to defraud the united states. which certainly sounds like it's in the ballpark of defrauding the electoral count. and it's important to remember that even though trump ultimately did not get to the capitol that day, he try to aggressively and repeatedly do just that. you might remember cassidy hutchinson's testimony to that and. miss hutchinson was told

that when trump's presidential level refused to take into the capital trump was so furious that he tried to grab the steering wheel and then physically fought with his lead secret service agent who try to restrain them. once he was forced back to the white house trump kept his overcoat on still are going to be taken to the capitol. his motorcade waited outside for more than 45 minutes just in case trump won that argument. if i were jack smith i'm certainly not, but if i were, i definitely want to hear from trump's advance man about how everything went down on january six itself. but we also know that the special counsel has previously been interested in william russell for other reasons. russell has already testified twice before special counsel grand juries. once reportedly for smith's investigation into trump's use of election fraud claims to fund-raise after the 2020 election. and then another time as part of the mar-a-lago documents investigation. william russell seems to know a lot about almost everything. so, what was he doing with the

grand jury today and what can that tell us about where this whole investigation stands? joining us now is down a perry, former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, and andrew weizmann, you may have heard, of them lead prosecutor for special counsel robert mueller and coast of the must listen to podcasts prosecuting donald trump. andrew, danya, great to see you in the flesh as this, the prognostication continues about what's happening here. andrew, let me start with you in terms of the presence of will wrestle testifying today. what does this tell you about where we are in the january six investigation? >> first, there's nothing unusual about someone being called back into the grand jury. it can happen for a variety of reasons. it could happen because jack smith wants to actually see how he testifies i get a sense of his credibility. it could be also just learned something new that they want to ask them about. it could also be that they have some questions about things he

may have said earlier that they're concerned about whether or not it's totally accurate. it might be a euphemism whether he now -- it can be any of those things. it does suggest that it's a later stage. obviously, if you get a target letter that's the key that tells you at this point that we're at the end stage. but to your point, he's this natural person to make sure that you've gone through everything he knows. he's up there with the former president today in and day out. it's almost if it's better than mark meadows., plus he's a junior person so he might, might i stress get a more candid version asked what happened. >> right, it's like when prosecuting a mob case start with a lower level people who don't have as much skin invested in the game, or in the room where it happened. does it surprise you, dan yeah, this is the first time you really talked about william russell.

this is someone that's not on the radar of the january six committee but then you see the photos of him on january six, and he's in the place you need to be to find out trump's state of mind in a critical moment in american history? >> to andrew's point, it often is a fly on the wall who makes the best witness for the prosecution. they know so much, they hear everything, but sometimes the higher ups don't really notice their presence and are very candid. while they were there -- they don't usually have the same kind of culpability or exposure. they don't have to make deals, they're not a complicated witness in that sense. just like cassidy hutchinson and some way was a wonderful witness for the january six committee, she put so much into the record that we hadn't known. this is kind of the analog in some way. so, it's not surprising that you call time and time again, perhaps we don't know, answering a little bit or adding on to the question you put to andrew. it doesn't necessarily mean that much. it could be many reasons as you said. it could be tricks of the calendar. it doesn't

mean that they are not indicting next week. they can continue to put people in the grand jury as we've seen with the mar-a-lago investigation. >> also, to everybody's point this is someone who's been testifying about multiple investigations here, andrew. there isn't a story about what happened in court today. a judge an unrelated case effectively forced william russell's lawyer to give up a little bit of information about why william russell was meeting with the grand jury today. can you offer insight into that? >> sure, essentially, trevor mcfadden was the judge and the defense counsel for mr. russell was supposed to be president before trevor mcfadden for sentencing of a different defendant who we also represented. by the way, the same defense lawyer also represents mr. -- that's three. he was late and that apparently displeased the judge, you

shouldn't be late to your court appearance -- the defense council said that they had to go back and it took longer because there was a claim of executive privilege. >> so, william russell was testifying to this ground jury and somehow it involves --? >> exactly. it all sort of got worked out behind the scenes because the prosecutors came to inspect with the judge, and appropriately was behind the scenes. i took two things away from that. one, that happened later in the day. that meant mr. russell was there for quite some time. i think that's a good sign for the government that they were really pressing on a whole variety of issues.

it's not somebody who went in for an hour to complete something up. that sounds to me that there was a variety of talk about sour being planned. the other issue as i mentioned was his counsel represents to other people. i'm not saying i expect -- there is a problem in cases involving multiple people in a conspiracy, something called house counselor. the lawyer is making sure that they're doing the bidding for the ultimate client. >> which in this case? as >> donald trump. and that tends to be the person who's paying. >> and he. as >> you have those two things going on. and that would be something if i were the prosecutor. i would be concerned about, to be clear, it's illegal to represent multiple people, each person we have the conflict. it's perilous because you away or have an ethical obligation to zealously represent each of your clients. and sometimes those clients interests conflict. and then you have an ethical obligation to say, i cannot do that. does that always happen, no, unfortunately it doesn't always happen. that's the concern that there's someone not there representing that person's best

interest. >> as an onlooker to all this, you see the name stanley woodward, the name of mr. russell's lawyer. it to me signals, that means that the person he's representing isn't cooperating with the federal government. listen to this list. while data, coconspirator named in the mar-a-lago case, tyler budowich, last witness called into the grand jury in florida, you settle -- the mar-a-lago i.t. guy who was working alongside walt nauta, -- dan scavino, close trump aide. kash patel and peter navarro. all of those people, danya, are being represented by stanley woodward. does this for close the possibility that any of them are gonna never cooperate the federal government? and should we assume none of those people are cooperating at this point? >> it probably is a thumb on the scale against cooperation. as andrew said, it can be

consistent with a pickle obligations. there's also no inherent problem with someone else paying legal bills. it happens all the time. oftentimes our prosecutor races this potential conflict a judge will hold a hearing. and determine for itself whether or not through's conflict. and sometimes it'll kick a lawyer off. i haven't seen that happen in this case but there is some potential for that. but certainly, that's how people at the top keep the people at the bottom. >> yeah, they're all paid by the trump save america super pac. i need to ask you in terms what william muscle might be brought in for in specific, andrew, we talked about defrauding the electoral count that's something that pat cipollone was worried about if trump had gone to the capitol on jan six. defrauding, it dovetails with one of the charges that was outlined in the target letter. do you think

that's where we're going with this? i know him ask you to project the unpredictable, is it off-base to say, maybe they're zeroing in on that moment on january six were trump's trying to physically go to the capitol and encourage the supporters to go with? >> there's no question that one of the topics, there's a photograph that showed of his being there. if you're the prosecutor is you want to know everything from anybody asked what was going on with donald trump on that day. so, this is a logical person. i think that's included. if it were me i would also want to know what do you know about pressuring mike pence, what do you know about pressuring doj, what do you know about pressuring the states. in other words, he may have information about all of those things and even if it's just small pieces you want to make sure -- he also could -- cassidy hutchinson as adds to the knowledge before january six of potential violence. and that seems unusual if he did not know that given how much information we have about people being concerned about that. we have hope ex who told the january six committee, we -- have about her conversation with the president on january

4th and fifth. where she pleaded with him to say something to the crowd that's coming on january six, that you need to stay peaceful and according to her the president rejected. that >> danya, i want to raise something that barr mcclain and i were talking about yesterday. the special counsel very much is interviewing witnesses both in this investigation at mar-a-lago. is there any risk in continuing to bring in witnesses and stretching on the timetable and which indictments and superseding indictments could come? given the whole given the cold hard reality of a presidential campaign that's very much underway. and the complications in and around that. >> yeah, i would agree there is some risk to that. i think the special counsel's office is keenly aware of that. and they're gonna hold himself to a

tight timetable here. the grand jury doesn't have to be paneled in order to supersede. they can be gathering information, they could be also looking at other targets that are on a longer timeframe than mr. trump. so, there are plenty for them to do. it doesn't necessarily put in jeopardy the timeframe of indicting this particular defendant before we get into election season. >> bernie kerik and rudy giuliani don't breathe a sigh of relief just. left their luck is not over. andrew weissmann, dayna perry, thank you so much thank you for your time i know many be seeing both more both of you soon. we have a lot more including the latest ever and ron desantis as florida to whitewash the teaching of

slavery. plus, maga republicans let wild conspiracy theories take center stage on capitol hill today. with some help from a democrat. that's next. >> the republican hearings that have and hold it over the fast few days, and throughout this entire congress are a malignant clown show. clown show

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republican party of donald trump if he wins an election? >> can you win the election? yes he can. the question is is the strongest to win the election. i don't know that answer. >> that was kevin mccarthy in an interview with cnbc last month.

questioning in the jet list possible trump is the strongest candidate for the republican party in 2024. today political reports that that comment so enraged the former president that trump demanded mccarthy endorse him immediately. as speaker of the house mccarthy has gone out of his way to stay neutral in the presidential -- the rub instead kevin mccarthy made a deal. as penance for is heresy the speaker told trump that he would have the house vote to expunge trump's two impeachments, that he would get it done before the august recess. which is slated to begin on july 28th. which is basically a week from today, tomorrow. reporters asked mccarthy about that deal on this is what he said. >> their star deal, but i made clear, when i voted against impeachments that it's for

purely political purposes. [inaudible] no deal out. they're >> joining me now is -- democratic colorado former impeachment manager and chair of the democratic policy in communications committee. i have a lot to ask you, congressman. first, what exactly is the point of expunging an impeachment? >> i'm not quite sure, alex, it's a great question for extreme members of the house republican caucus. from my understanding, every constitutional scholar has looked at this and said that there is no constitutional basis for the type of action that they apparently are gonna try to pursue in the house. it's nonsensical, it can -- erase the actions that are happening by the house falling of course the presidents conduct initially in 2019, and again during, rather after the events of january six. the trial that followed in the senate which of course i and my other fellow managers participated, the american public watched it, the senate

rendered a verdict. and as i said, it's nonsensical for republicans to try and pursue this. but of course to the extent it's true it's consistent with the way that pete speaker mccarthy has conducted himself for the last seven and a half months. since he first descended to the speakership, capitulating this extreme right wing part of his caucus that has taken hold and permeated the house republican conference. >> and placating the guy on top of that extreme weighing, donald trump. this is all an exercise in placating and irascible individual who doesn't like the fact that he was in peach. gotta ask, there's this sort of reason mccarthy's doing this which is for trump. but the reality of what this does to his caucus, resurfacing impeachment does not seem like good politics. and to ask members to take this vote seems equally perilous. there are only two republicans left in the house republican

conference who voted for impeachment first-time. they had a very tightrope to walk. and to do this to them again and to other moderate members seems almost suicidal for a man -- >> look, as i said, this is nonsensical from a political standpoint, legally and substantially its mary alice. at the end of the day, it's -- clearly the speaker's focused on his own survival atop his caucus. we have seen time and time again over the last eight months a variety of different demands that have been made by the extreme right wing members of the caucus in cohort and in concert with former president trump that the speaker capitulates. we saw that with a default on americas that, the consequence of an american families, we see that of course with respect to the supposed expungement as they're calling it of the two impeachments that the congress proceeded wet.

>> i need to, ask when we talk about impeachment will set ukraine inside for the moment. the january six, on the precipice of trump potentially being federally charged for his role in the events that day. the house republican leadership has been so -- about holding him accountable. it's gone so far as to suggest that all of the efforts of the department of justice are a political stunt. i wonder what it's like for you as someone who was an investigator, someone who worked on the impeachment in congress, but also a victim that day. what it's like to watch the speaker of the house of representatives diminish what you did from a constitutional standpoint, and diminish your experience as an individual who is part of an insurrection on the capitol? >> it's disheartening. it's frustrating. but at the same time it's part of the course of the republican leadership of the house that clearly chose longer go to

choose party over country. we saw that in the days after january six, not all republicans as you say, ten republicans in the house, seven republican senators who ultimately voted to convict the united states senate, notwithstanding that we didn't meet -- >> but rather the constitutional vote requirements, the two thirds, at the end of the day was the most bipartisan vote for conviction in the history of presidential impeachments. and i'm reminded of what mitch mcconnell said on the senate floor minutes after that trial had concluded. as you recall, he voted to acquit but made clear that he believed former president trump was morally, and practically responsible for provoking the events of that day. and that he would not, no former president ultimately view to criminal or seminal liability for the actions that they've taken, and the course of conduct during -- a mock gano pine on the investigation that's being done by the special counsel. for me to speculate -- i trust the department of justice will do their work and mom partial and independent, objective way. i think it is deeply dangerous for republicans to be attacking the fbi, department of justice,

the office of special counsel, it undermines the rule of law which is sacrosanct in the united states. >> this is a man who was scared for his own life that day. the revisionism is staggering. in the meantime they're hauling robert f. kennedy junior up to the hill to spout antisemitic conspiracy theories about the covid-19 vaccine. we're talking about a cast of characters that republicans have brought to the hell as part of a weaponization of the federal government investigations. i mean it's laughable would be euphamistic, leader jeffries called them a malignant clown show. this is more than just ridiculous. it seems from the outside to be dangerous. and yet it doesn't seem that they're showing any signs of slowing down. >> right. these hearings are going nowhere fast. i do think that not all but some of the republican certainly know why they're doing it. it's a strategic region, a

judgment they've made that it's better to distract, or try to distract the american public from the dangerous public policy agenda that they're pursuing at the united states congress. which is deeply unpopular. think about the work to try to do with progress, the president biden -- made over the last few years to grow the middle class, lower costs. they don't want to talk about their plan to fund social security, to cut medicare. instead they fill the airwaves with incoherent hearings, outlandish conspiracy theories, and as the leader said, clown shows, political sideshows, i think the american public can tell the difference between congressional oversight legitimate oversight legitimate congressional oversight and sideshows. i suspect that they're gonna come to the conclusion that this is -- >> you are generous enough not to mention the behavior of taking credit for infrastructure projects that they voted against, that were passed largely by democrats. >> we'll talk about that next time. >> yes, you can. please do. i didn't mean to sound sarcastic. >> thank you for your time, thank you for coming to visit us. coming up after a quick break florida public schools may soon teach children that slavery

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>> his name may not be familiar to you, but this is john brown. john brown was enslaved in the mid 1800s and subjected to excruciating experiments by a

georgian doctor named thomas hamilton. hamilton believed there were physiological differences between black and white people. and he used brown's body to prove that. after he escaped slavery brown described what happened to him in an autobiography. dr. hamilton sent to work to ascertain how deep my black skin was. this he did by applying blisters to my hands, legs, and feet. which bear the scars to this day. that happened because dr. hamilton, a slave owner, was trying to scientifically bolster the prevailing ideology that black people were mentally and physically inferior to white people. and therefore benefited from enslavement. that thinking was so pervasive at the time that it spawned propaganda like this print from slavery apologists who pushed a narrative that enslaved blacks in the u.s. or better off than white factory workers. and it provided material for slave holders like south

carolina senator john calhoun, who in 18 37th speech argued that slavery was a boom to black people. never before has the black rays of central africa from the dawn of history to the present day attained a condition so civilized and so improved, not only physically but morally and intellectually. this kind of thinking gave rise to junk science like -- which translate to runaway madness. it was a clinical term of the 1850s based on the belief that slavery so vastly improve the lives of the enslaved. that they would have to be mentally ill to run away. the term drapetomania was not removed from medical textbooks until after 1914. human experiments in racist propaganda and fake science were used to prove something that we all know now is patently false black people did not benefit from slavery, cried obviously. but this year in florida the

echoes of those falsehoods can be heard once again yesterday at the florida board of education approved new standards for black history instruction that require lessons from middle schoolers to include quote, how slaves developed skills which in some instances could be applied for their personal benefit. the old racist trope from the 1850s that slavery done benefited the enslaved seems to have been resurrected in florida, in middle schoolers in that state may be required to learn it. more on that unlearning of american history is coming up next with my guest journalist and dean, jelani cobb. introducing the new swiffer powermop. an all-in-one cleaning tool with hundreds of scrubbing strips- that absorb and lock dirt away, for a mop and bucket clean in half the time. mop smarter with the new swiffer powermop.

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ron desantis's efforts to whitewash black history. highschoolers in the states public school system will now we taught that race massacres, like the racial terror in ocoee in 1920 the largest incident of -- american history. that those massacres included acts of violence perpetrated against and by african americans. in reality, it was a white mob that killed 60 people in ocoee after a black man tried to vote. but those guidelines are after part of a new set of standards in florida's board of education approved yesterday, downplaying america's history of anti black violence. and as part of their campaign to make america florida, state officials want to export those standards nationally. joining me now is jelani cobb

dean of the journalism school at columbia university and, of course a staff writer for the new york york or new yorker. dean, i feel like i'm always bringing -- news around education gets more and more depressing especially in the state of florida. the scene for a long time the effort has been, minimize weight aggression, minimize white crime, minimize white murder and targeting of people of color throughout american history. now sort of the other side of that coin is -- upheld the notion that black people enjoyed slavery or that they were somehow complicit in the racially motivated violence. >> sure. this is outrageous but it's not shocking. when you know the history of this, this is just a repetition. so, even as these events were being perpetrated, there were attempts to, number one, eliminate the record. when you go to tulsa and also when you go to ocoee, many of the official documents that

would use to actually accord the history have been destroyed. and so there is the attempt to whitewash it in the immediate aftermath. and then the reversal of the narrative to make it seem that the people who were victimized years were actually victims, and the people who were victims or actually victimizer's. the most pernicious part of this, however, is not the dishonesty, not the outright lying on people and who lost their lives, but it's the purpose of it. >> yeah. >> they do this in order to uphold an unjust and unfair state of affairs in the nation. and in the state. so, they are telling this story. the question is, they're telling the story for what the ultimate purpose? and i think that's where it gets to be really pernicious. >> well, it's pernicious, but, at least from my trans transparently -- vice president of the nights it's going to florida tomorrow to talk about what is happening in the florida public school

system. i wonder if you think they get away with this? >> they potentially can. given what we've seen, the anti woke act, the don't say gay act, the kind of -- we are guard march that's happened in education and florida. the way that they antagonized antagonize people at the university level. the way that they're creating a chilling effect across education on all of these tiers. i'm not sure that they -- i will say one thing that i think is also particularly disturbing. is the fact that ron desantis was a history major. that he graduated from yale with a degree in history. now i know the faculty of yale, i know the department, i've lectured at yale. nobody, i can guarantee you, nobody taught ron desantis the foolishness that we are seeing being passed office history in florida right now. >> i believe you when you say that. i think what's equally disturbing about all of this is that other states are looking to florida as a guiding light

in terms of how to revise american history, how to shift the country into reverse, as you say. and what could a merge is literally the fragmentation of american education. where you have blue states that are not under the same sort of duress as red states. where history is taught in a fulsome way. >> sure. >> and then red states where we have revised our history, where there's a different understanding that children are brought up with as they come to mark's bloody and violent history on race. what are the implications for a country already so fractured, to poison the well in the education system. we're talking about children in elementary and middle, high school. to be brought up with this. >> the issue is the protection of hard rights. the fact that people were excluded from the social compact, excluded from the civic compact, the fact that people had to lose their lives in order to obtain rights that were granted in other communities at birth.

that is the fundamental narrative, the crucial narrative in terms of understanding how this nation came to be what it is. if you will eliminate that narrative, but you do is make it possible to marginalize those people again, to strip away their rights again, and not only to be able to do that but for the public to not even understand the public and the travesty as it is happening. >> when you say, basically, they have tried to censor the phrase structural racism, and now they're actually trying to tear down the structure itself. >> sure. >> it's not just the language. it's actually the history itself, trying to revise it in a way where structural racism not only can you not, say that never actually existed. i think the fundamental issue is that we understand that to be cancerous for the united states of america. other states so enamored of this idea that crt has poisoned the well. are going to replicate -- i mean, do you think it's a

foregone conclusion that this gets replicated in red states where governors have looked kindly on what governor desantis's -- >> people will try. that's absolutely -- the same thing that we saw with crt. and, so what you do is strip away the utility of history in the first place. and as i say, time and time again, teams watch the game tape to see what they got wrong and not what they got right. >> you are so right. >> that's the purpose of studying history in the first place -- >> if you negate the study of history, then you devastate the world of politics and policy making. i will say that. because so much of what we are trying to do is correct the wrongs of the past, through policy, through programs. we see white all dovetails into a political agenda. dean jelani cobb, it's so and lightning and such a pleasure, even when it's about to stress topics to see you and speak with you. >> thank you. >> thank you for your time and wisdom tonight. we have one more story this evening. while facing potential criminal indictment for sending a mob to the u.s. capitol, donald trump today appeared to issue a new threat.

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is from 2020. but this week it reemerged without context. >> [bleep] -- if you do something bad too us we're going to do things to you that have never been done before. >> if you f with us you are -- we done before. now the audience from an

interview that donald trump did with the conservative radio host, rush limbaugh. the two men were discussing iran. but today it was re-posted on truth social by donald trump. joining me now to discuss this is faz shakir, former campaign manager senior adviser to bernie sanders as well as the founder of a more perfect union -- faz shakir, it's great to see. you. >> great to see, you. >> -- taken aback by the very specific intent of this re-post from trump, which is to strike fear in the hearts of people who would potentially be detractors, investigators are opponents. if you are 2024 presidential candidate in this race, what do you do with an ad like that? it's incumbent upon you to respond to it. >> i don't know if it is. i'm going to argue that trump has largely varied himself with a lot of independent and moderate and progressive people all across america.

and he continues to dig holes. he is rallying in the course of his primary in the -- his alpha-ness, he swings at everybody, he pisses people off. they get excited about that. if you're biden, you're letting him mark his territory. go for. it that's your 40%? great. it's not the majority in this country. so, you say i have a different ethical code. i'm not gonna get dragged down into nonsense and garbage like this. with that, what trump knows is there's people angry and upset in america. and he's trying to capitalize on. that if you're angry and upset no that i am angry and upset, and i think there's a message for biden to make sure that while he's governing there are moments of anger and upset too. he's trying to change this government to work for you. can't forget that part is. well >> yeah i think the word the fighter is always bandied about. biden has to show he's a fighter. we were talking to the secretary of transportation, pete buttigieg, about the ways in which certain republicans

are taking credit for infrastructure projects that were largely passed by democrats, that they themselves voted against. it's kind of laughable, and desperate on a certain level, but it's one of the arenas where you wish the white house would be more aggressive, and mark its territory. like, this is what we are doing for america. and this is the way that we're gonna own. it. i know you've been working on some -- can you talk to me about your strategy for highlighting in the fight what democrats are doing? >> joe biden -- when if his wonderful qualities is that he's a peacemaker, you put him in any room he brings the temperature down. and i think it works in many, many ways for him. but there are moments when a. working class -- audience and i think many of them are going to be swing electors, swing voters in the cycle. they're not gonna be gravitating toward, that's a very nice, rational plan to improve america, nice implementation funding you got there. they want to know what are your value orientations? do you give a dam about me?

do you see that in the way that i articulate that? when you get into these implementation fights, there should be a fight, there's going to be moments, whether it's prescription drugs, whether it's broadband needs to be expanded, whether there is a company that's resisting childcare resisting workers paying -- you call them to the carpet. you say, hey, i did just doled out federal money so that other people can take it and run with it. i have a vision for america than -- i think there needs to be some animation. you've seen u.p.s. workers across the country, you've seen the screen actors guild, the writers guild, they're all telling you workers are upset. >> yes. >> and many of them feel like this might be their last contract. because the coming of automation, the consolidation, corporate america, who the hell has power to stand up to these guys. you know who does? a government. and you need to say, that i'm the bulwark against large mega monopolies, large corporations who have power over you. and they say go on strike for

two months, who cares? where else are you going to work? where else are you going to go? and so, if you are the president of the united states, you say, i've got your back. >> and you bring up the fact that this is shaping up to be some airstrikes. i think by the peak of the summer, some 650,000 american workers were on strike. whether it's the weather is sag-aftra, the hollywood, potential u.p.s. strike -- another reality of this white house as well. he's trying to balance the economy, the economy, the economy, and the very real need of america workers and the reality of the future in terms of american labor. >> it's not hard to say though alex that with my power as an administration, as a government, i'm standing up for middle class working people, with everything i can do. now, i have some opponents out there. they happen to be in corporate america. they want to screw you. they don't care about our agenda fighting for people. i'm trying to dole out federal money to a lot of people to help -- but then i've got some u.p.s.

over here, i've got some victory automakers, i have big studios, the disney's of the world, they should -- $16 an hour and that's good enough for you. if that's their attitude, we should be looking for a government that says, that's bs. no, we don't tolerate that. and i'm willing allow people to go on strike, to say, you deserve your fair chair. i think there's gonna be these moments, existential moments. >> yeah. they are. >> what direction with this country do you want? and i think you take a i -- your show you come in every day and talk to producers. is there a world which you can -- and the side with the topics in segments are you? we should -- a profit accrue. what do you optimizing for? not profit cruel. you are optimizing for peoples fulfillment, happiness. to have a good life. that's our vision. >> we are at an existential moment. faiz shakir, it is always great to see you. -- faiz shakir, campaign manager and senior adviser to bernie

sanders. that is our show for this evening. it is now time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, alex. we have sheldon whitehouse joining us today on the day that his lonely crusade for supreme court ethics actually came to a vote in the senate this judiciary committee, and ethics one won. -- >> i will take one for ethics -- sheldon whitehouse -- one of the most pressing issues and not just the american court system but in american society given the role of the courts. >> and alex, i'm going to get into something later in the hour and i'm very specifically avoiding and that is commenting on robert kennedy jr.. i have reasons for my reluctance, including my experience with him in my college class, which i will a