of dateline. i am andrea canning, thank you for watching. >> happy saturday and welcome to morning joe weekend, it was another busy week with growing legal troubles for former president donald trump. we will get into all of that, plus some of the week's other top stories, take a look. the jury found trump liable for sexual abuse and then there was new court filing, a judge clarified that the jury found that donald trump acted rape writer e. jean carroll. and that was in the way that the word is commonly used. the jury handed down that verdict during a civil trial between the rider and the former president, awarding

carroll $5 million in damages. trump's lawyers filed the motion seeking either to reduce that -- arguing that he was not found liable for rape like carroll alleges. the judge denied that request saying that the weight new york law defines rape is much narrower than how it is commonly defined by some dictionaries and other criminal statutes, in the opinion catherine writes quote the finding that miss carroll failed to prove that she was raped within the meaning of that new york penal law does not mean that she failed to prove that mr. trump raped her. as many people commonly understand the word rape. indeed, as the evidence of the trial recounted below mix clear, the jury found that mr. trump, in fact, did exactly that. this filing comes as trump faces a second defamation loss suit from carole over comments

he made about her, shortly after she came forward with her allegations. as well as comments he made the day after the jury, in the first trial, handed down its verdict. remember that? he just couldn't stop. attorneys for trump have not responded to requests for comments, but it is interesting, mccarthy is so scared of this man, so frightened of his shadow, and yet this woman will hold donald trump accountable no matter what she has to go through, and no matter how long it takes. just saying, very, very, very different, different abilities to handle stress. let's put it that way. >> if you want to really look at how much this party has devolved from 2016 with the access hollywood tape came out, you had republicans saying mike pence, everybody said we can't follow this guy anymore. we, we, and they were speaking

out against him, and so you now have a president, as you said, that has been indicted three times indicted for stealing nuclear secrets and hiding them in his beach club,, other military secrets also stolen from the u.s. government. hidden in his beach club, you have a district court judge calling donald trump a rapist saying that he is a rapist. again, any one of these things would have finished and anybody's political career and that isn't either party pre donald trump. it is truly frightening what the republican party has become. anytime a politician -- i just -- >> you wouldn't want someone like this working in your business. >> a judge says he is a rapist, what company would continue having this guy as their ceo? stealing nuclear secrets, they

would be fired immediately. just leave the building we will box your stuff up and leave the building. i mean, these are the sort of things that again, the fact that the republicans are sitting back and they are fine with all of this. they are fine with nuclear secrets being stolen, they're fine with military secrets being stolen, there are fine with military plants to invade iran being stolen. donald trump lying to the government when they tried to get those secrets back, and the judge saying donald trump raped e. jean carroll, they are fine with that. again, it keeps getting more bizarre every day. >> yes, i think it is important to say, that it wasn't always like this. we all have kids of a certain age who are growing up in this last decade, in the political culture, asking us and wondering is always like this? no, it hasn't always been like theirs and it shouldn't be like this. we should go back to it not being like this where people are head tour certain standard of behavior, leaders are held

to a certain standard of behavior but it takes not even courage, some integrity to do that. and man, is there a deficit of that in the leadership of the republican party. you had republicans coming out yesterday desperately saying, well, the only reason jack smith and the government and the biden administration is coming up with these indictments is to silence us, too overwhelmed the investigation into hunter biden in the oversight committee. they can bring themselves to express concern about very serious potential crimes, because again, that would mean criticizing donald trump. it's hard to explain to somebody who hasn't been watching this as closely as we have been every day, if you drop down from another planet then you asked somebody why is this happening? how could you allow this to happen? it's tough thing to explain except for the fact that they are afraid, they are afraid of donald trump, they continue to be afraid of his voters. it's unclear, really inside the republican party anyway what breaks that fever? >> we will get to the

investigation, also, again, so-called whistleblowers. >> my god. >> the irs whistleblowers weren't spies, they didn't illegally -- to the communist chinese party, police say they weren't like the last whistleblower was, but this whistleblower admitted, yes i brought this up to the trump administration the trump justice department, they didn't see anything there either and yes, all those things republican congress men have been saying about merrick garland that i said about him supposedly those are lies to. so, they are throwing things at the wall because they're so desperate, they don't want americans to hear that a judge called donald trump rapist. they don't want the american people to focus on the fact that donald trump stole nuclear secrets. wouldn't give them back to the government. that donald trump stole military secrets and secret plans to evade iran and wouldn't give them back to the

government. they don't want people to know. they make things up, they have all of the so-called whistleblowers who again admit the trump justice department said there is nothing there. >> with us we have the host of way too early and white house -- what jonathan lemire member of the new york times editorial board margie, founder of the conservative website the bullhorn charlie sykes is with us. and former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official chuck rosenberg. chuck, ahead of a possible third and dachman of donald trump we are learning more about the serious new charges the former president could potentially face, two attorneys with direct knowledge of the matter. tell nbc news that in a target letter sent to trump this week, special counsel jack smith mentioned three federal statutes, deprivation of rights under color of law, conspiracy to defraud the united states and witness tampering.

it's worth noting that all the new charges against the former president are extremely likely, a target letter is not an indictment and if trump is indeed charged the counts could extend beyond the three statutes mentioned in the letter. >> chuck, what do you make of those three charges? those three possible charges? >> so first, to make a point that target letter is not an indictment but having been a prosecutor and sent out those letters you don't do that and unless you intend to indict. it means an indictment is coming. what do i make of those three charges? you and i have talked about this before, i've always says that the most compelling case will be the most serious charge, the most serious charge i can imagine in a democracy would be the effort by an officeholder, a president, mr. trump, to overturn a fair and free election. i can't imagine in a democracy a crime more serious than that.

so these three charges articulated in the target letter, deprivation of rights which would be related to the voting i believe, the efforts to defraud the u.s. government by overturning the election and certainly, it's called witness tampering and the title of the statute means attempts to obstruct an official proceeding. as serious as you can imagine, because they relate to january six, they all relate to an effort, a criminal effort, to retain power by unlawful means. and so, the proof will be in the pudding. when jack smith and his team of prosecutors and agents say something, they have an obligation kevin mccarthy and members of congress don't have. they have to prove it in court, beyond a reasonable doubt to a unanimous jury. so they don't write these letters likely they don't indict cases likely. their words have meanings and they have to prove it and so it

is of a different order. what do i make of it, joe? this is as serious as it gets. this>> one of the things we've learned over the years covering donald trump is -- his true feelings are revealed when he was alone with his phone on truth social, and i should note it's all kept screen after all caps green after all caps green, clearly freaking out about this particular potential indictment. charlie sykes, chuck said it, he said in his estimation this is the most serious charge in a democracy. but yet, it doesn't seem like most republicans are viewing it that same way, chris christie they were sharp to criticize trump, most others -- attacking the doj instead, and so i want to get your assessment of this doesn't feel like this is the byproduct of two years worth of trump really sort of softening the ground and downplaying what happened on january six, normalizing what happened on january six, protests that got out of hand it was antifa, whatever it

might be, and it feels like despite this being the most serious charge in a democracy, for most republicans, it is a shrug, it's a witch hunt, it's the deep state, it's not gonna change the vote. >> no, probably right, that's one of those many mornings where america wakes up thinking that they took crazy pills. i mean, can we just -- the federal judge said that the former president is a rapist and to joe's point there is no job in america that this would not be disqualifying for except being a republican candidate for the united states, your point is right. you have two plus years of donald trump gaslighting the nation about what happened on january six. fred conning the whole thing. you've also seen this long march of donald trump and his allies through the institutions of america, the american justice system, the a legitimization of prosecutors, grand juries, courts, of any

institution that might hold him accountable. and now we're seeing this, the republican party has internalized this, it's not that they are afraid of if they've attorney lies the idea that they don't have to take a federal grand jury seriously,. they don't have to wait to see what the charges are. they have completely internalize the idea that the attempt to overturn the election, to lie about the election, you know, the deception the obstruction of justice in fact is no big deal. >> coming up the republican-led house oversight committee took another swing at hunter biden with testimony from two iris whistleblowers. we will talk to house minority catherine clark about that, and much more. much more.

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justice. and arms trafficker indicted on a federal criminal charges and an unregistered foreign agent for china to try to change the chinese are for running oil. i guess you will be a witness for the majority anytime soon. well after the failed sars reports, bank records, we can conclude that this inspector uso style quest for something that doesn't exist has turned our committee into a theater of the absurd. >> ranking member of the house oversight committee maryland democrat jamie raskin blasting his republican colleagues over their failed efforts to paint president joe biden as the mastermind behind a family crime ring. that hearing fahey hear -- gary shapleigh and joseph ziegler who testified the doj essentially slow walk its investigation into hunter biden and ignored recommendations to

file a felony tax charges instead of striking a plea deal that allows the president son to avoid prison time. >> still using the trump department as well. >> right. so that along having elsewhere even talking about this morning should tell you everything you need to know. parallel edged that the prosecutor leading the hunter biden probe was prevented from charges of jurisdictions outside delaware. he told congress that he was granted quote, ultimate authority over, when and whether to file charges in the case. ziegler said that he was the lead irs case agent on the investigation. and the irs had recommended both felony and misdemeanor charges against hunter biden. democratic congressman russia of illinois got ziegler to

admit that the federal officials he was dealing with and with whom he had concerns were actually members of the trump administration. before biden ever took office. >> so you have lies, exaggerations, arms dealers, chinese agents, people that smuggle already an oil to the chinese communist party, and now trump irs agents, trump attorney generals, trump prosecutors all appointed by donald trump. these complaints starting in 2018 when donald trump would be president for two more years, over two years. democratic congressman of california also got him to admit that the tax council decides not to charge the vast majority of cases like hunter

biden, in fact it's a small minority of people who got targeted by hunter biden. should we also admit that he never said, never said despite republican lies, he never said that merrick garland lied to congress. that that right wing talking point was in fact a lie. let's bring in the number two democrat and house, minority whip. congresswoman, we started with durham, he was going to prove that hillary clinton tapped down trump's phones and the fbi wasn't on it, he end up being made a fool of himself, 24 jurors and two separate trials dismissed charges. i found that those he charged not guilty, it was a complete bust. then we have house republicans bringing in arms dealers,

chinese agents, people that illegally smuggle iranian oil, now we have the so-called whistleblowers who are saying, we are really angry, it is really terrible what trump's irs people did and trump's attorney general did, and trump 's prosecutor did. this is just a clown show. >> absolutely. listen, the circus is come to town at the house gop. what is dangerous about this is that the american people and their needs are not part of their agenda. they want to focus on this political theater there are so wrapped up in their own salaciousness that they have totally lost the thread that what they're here to do is find

solutions for the american people. they don't want to talk about with the biden administration in congress, we've been able to grow the economy by growing the middle class. with we've been able to reduce health care costs, just look one year ago, we cap insulin at $35 a month, there wasn't a single republican vote because the focus is on this chaos. it is not what the american people need. but we are going to keep doing our jobs, we are gonna keep focusing on the solutions that matter, whether that is reducing the cost of health care, groceries, gasoline, or whether that is making sure that we are addressing climate change as most of the country is suffering from an incredible heat wave. and making sure that we have the energy and the renewable energy to meet those demands. gun violence, they don't want

to talk about it, but they put a bill on the floor this week that was completely manufactured crisis about migrants in schools. let's talk about how we keep family safe at home, let's put the focus back on the american family and stop this teacher. >> still ahead, our conversation with speaker and democratic congresswoman nancy pelosi on women's rights and much more. you're watching morning joe weekend, we will be right back. you're watching morning jo weekend, we will be right back weekend, we will be right back subway's now slicing their meats fresh. that's why soccer pros like me profer the grand slam ham. and this rookie pro... profers fresh sliced turkey. and if we profer it, we know you'll prefer it too. glad you made the cut. you mean slice? seriously? okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. yaaay! woo hoo! ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪

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noting today. i first have to ask you given our top story, your reaction to former president trump receiving the target letter as it pertains to january 6th. well, the fact is that no one is above the law and as the vice president said, politics will take care of this. no, no one is above the law, as one who was there and a victim of january 6th. i hope that justice will be done. we played with the president to send the national guard. we played with him to call off his folks that he was inciting. this is about the facts, the law, no one is above it, he is innocent until proven guilty. that is in the courts and i don't have anything more to say about that. i'm happy to be on the show with daniel silva, that is

pretty exciting. but i can't wait to see him because i have 30 years, 30 years of intelligence as a member, as a top democrat, as leader and specifically -- so i'm very eager to hear just how he has written us up and of course i have, you have to know this, if i were in this room where you go to get intelligence and i wrote down a couple of names that i heard of presentation, just as i had the names, i couldn't take that piece of paper out of the room, i would have to hand then to be put into a box or something that i could have access to, but i could never even take my own handwritten spelling of three names, or one name out of the room. so there is a lot of that needs to be addressed here. but again, it is in the court of law, i don't think it is

appropriate for me to be talking about that, except to say that i'm so glad that they are checking into the documents and also january 6th. of course that relates to overthrowing the results of an election. but i just think we are just talking too much about donald trump. so let's get back to the fact that this is the 175th anniversary of the seneca convention where women came together. one good man, frederick galas, came together to declare not only are all meant critical, but all men and women are critical. and entitled to the rightful roles in our society. so it is 175 years today, imagine the courage it took for those women to leave home, some without needing permission from their husbands, fathers, or whatever to do so. some going without that and we are still fighting, since then we have expanded freedom in our

country for women, eventually the right to vote, other protections for women and the rest until one year ago, overturning roe v. wade. we have work to do. >> we should mention she is a new piece published, for msnbc .com, the title is, it has been 175 years since history was made at seneca falls. and we are still fighting. in it, you write about the courage it took for this group of visionary women who met in seneca falls, new york in 1848, speaking openly about issues of discrimination, disenfranchisement, and domestic violence. you then highlight some of the games that women have made since then. but you go on to right vote, our march towards gender justice was abruptly halted

last summer when the republican super majority of the supreme court took a wrecking ball to women's health freedom. for the first time in our history, girls going on today have less freedom than their mothers. democrats will not rest until the rights of roe are restored for all. at the same time, women still face too many barriers in the workplace, gender justice starts with finally achieving equal pay for equal work. we must ease the burden of caregiving that falls disproportionately on women by investing in the expanded child tax credit, universal childcare, paid family medical leave, home health care services, and more. this is imperative, the ongoing work of the biden harris administration. so, i would like to ask you because personally i feel really scared for our women and

girls in terms of women's health rights. what is the way forward, it does feel like we are completely turning around and going backwards in time. >> well, one would think that, in terms of this court, elections have ramifications and this republican house right now, can you imagine not one of them voted for our women's health act, the duty to legislation which would in shrine roe v. wade as law of the land. three of them voted for him to be able to travel from one state to the next in order to have access to reproductive health care. eight of them, eight members of the republican house of representatives, of 220, whatever they had, to june 22, eight of them voted to have women access to contraception. so this is complete disrespect for women and as i say, women

are not for birth control, but they are for controlling, for controlling women. we just have to make sure that women speak up. it is not partisan, this is about women coming together and speaking up. what women saw the march is showing up counts for a lot. showing up. women marched, women ran, and women voted and would've won. we have to do that again, it is absolutely essential. >> by the way, this is bidenomics, this is bidenomics. president biden, people asked me how did feel when you are sitting there with a woman vice president of the united states, a woman speaker of the house, the president made the state of the union address, i said it was exciting, i love kamala, she was a california, we have to watch for career we, are so proud of her. but what was really exciting was the speech that the president made for all the

things that you mentioned. family and medical leave, people equal pay for equal work, health care workers. so women could rightfully take their role in the workplace and when women succeed, we believe america succeeds. so thank you joe biden, kamala harris for their leadership, but also the democrats and the congress. unfortunately so far that would be bipartisan, we have to make sure that when women vote, they make sure that who they vote for know what they care about. >> it is remarkable, republicans understand that they have to understand the political consequences madam speaker of their extreme position. when can your goals have to flee the state of ohio, after they've been raped. when you have candidates talking about how girls being raped by their uncles is a perfect sample of why there aren't any exceptions. you have an abortion, complete

abortion ban going back to 1849 that republicans keep on the book. and yet they get wiped out in wisconsin, they get wiped out in kansas. they lose in kentucky, they lose in these red states and yet they can't seem to help themselves. they stay with these extreme positions. i think it's safe you call them extreme positions when 90% of americans are opposed to abortion laws that have no exceptions for rape, incest, life of the mother. it is extreme. do not see any movement among your republican peers in the house and the growing understanding that they are in the extremist part of the american electorate. well, thank you for spelling it out that way. >> we had a big victory in wisconsin as you alluded to with judge janet, we hope that will help us. because redistricting has a lot

to do with this. you know in the last election, people said we are going to lose 40 seats because i was incorrectly focusing on a woman's right to choose, on democracy, on climate, on gun violence, protection. that is not the issue here. what do we lose? we lost five seats, we lost five seats in new york. but we won in the rest of the country because roe v. wade was not -- our democratic opponents were saying, it is in the rearview mirror. roe v. wade was front and center to women in terms of their well-being. it is an economic issue, it is a respect issue. and women know that. when women vote, women's ideas. again, we don't want this to be partisan. i keep saying, take back your party joe to republicans, take back your party, this is a grand old party. it had been part of planned

parenthood right from the start. environmental protection right from the start. it is gone on to be a call, but as a whole another issue. but thank you, thank you so much for your promotion of women and success of women and showcasing so much of that. >> coming up, democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia and former republican governor of utah john huntsman appear to be testing the waters for a third party run. nbc's vaughn hillyard spoke with both men and joins us next. men and joins us next next

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could be getting a bit more crowded, that is because senator joe manchin is not ruling out a third party run next year. the west virginia democrat tells nbc that he is not taking anything off the table. manchin joined former republican governor john huntsman in new hampshire along with the group no label switches laying the groundwork to field a third party presidential campaign. joining us live from manchester, vaughn hillyard. vaughn, he spoke to both manchin and huntsman. not only what did they tell you about a potential 2024 presidential bid, but obviously

they are doing something leaning towards that. why are they doing this? >> right, let's lay the groundwork. everybody who is not keen into the labor at this point, it is time to do it. because this is some organization that is finney couple thousand dollars on mailers or campaign flyers, this is a group that is about at its 70 million dollar war chest that they aim to create. that is what this group is, they are the ones behind the problem solvers congress. they're getting involved in presidential politics, it will potentially put forward a bipartisan ticket. one that includes a republican and a democrat. last night was a notable step for this organization. they went out on what you could call the campaign trail. in the middle of the efforts to qualify for the ballot in all 50 states, they went out here in new hampshire alongside, not only johnson, the former u.s. ambassador china and the

republican governor of utah, but also joe manchin, arguably the most influential member of the u.s. senate right now. i want to let you hear part of my conversation with both men. >> don't you believe that this country is as divided as they want to make you believe. washington is divided, the public is dividing the country. there's only one side, the american side. that is what people want to be. >> so, if you believe that and if that is where the american public is, would you be open to running a third party. >> but see where everybody goes. let's see what happens. maybe people come to their senses and start doing the job they were elected to do. >> for us to do the same hope simile thing is like a little bit insane. >> could've bipartisan ticket actually work? >> i think eventually there could be that possibility once the american people are frustrated enough with the status quo. that's gonna be driven by the american people. >> it's 2024 that opportunity? >> i don't know. >> of course, joe manchin told

me that he will not make his decision on whether to announce this no labels presidential run until next year. so the threat of a joe manchin presidential candidacy against the leader president biden of his own party will be out there for at least six more months we should expect. a course the other concern for the national democrats were talk two is the fact that could joe manchin candidacy siphon off votes from the likes of the democratic nominee, helps the trump candidacy. there's a lot of variables to play because of course we don't know if joe manchin is going to do it, we don't even know who that republican, john huntsman or somebody else, there is a lot of question marks as this group prepares to put itself on the ballot across the country. >> nbc's vaughn hillyard live in manchester, new hampshire. thank you very much. and to me that seemed a little to obviously coy. on the part of manchin and

huntsman. at the same time no labels could play a pretty huge role in 2020, four. >> they could. and it may not go exactly the way people are thinking it may go. no labels may have a variety of plants, variety of options. they may have the national ticket or they may have individual tickets. they could have conservator tickets and against swing states. they could have liz cheney and a conservative democrat and put them in ballots in swing states. it might disproportionately hurt donald trump. they could also have several other options, they could have a national ticket which would most likely hurt. that ticket would hurt joe biden. >> still ahead, the man forbes magazine calls cryptos unlikely antagonist. actor ben mackenzie tells us why he has join the fight against the currency. you're watching morning joe weekend. you're watching morning jo weekend. weekend.

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cryptocurrency took over the super bowl but this year, the interest rate fell silent, running no commercials during the big game. several exchange companies are now facing legal troubles

including ftx which filed for bankruptcy in last november. the company's founder faces charges for defrauding customers out of billions of dollars. the celebrities who were once the face of crypto are also staying out of the spotlight as they face backlash for promoting a virtual currency that comes with major risks. our next guest says that he to almost fell victim to the hype. until he did his own research, joining us now, ben mackenzie, normally an actor by trade. he is now coauthor of a new book entitled easy money. cryptocurrency, capitalism, and the golden age of fraud. so ben, just take us through your own process, is it the bottom line, something seems too good to be true, then it probably is, what struck you as potentially problematic about crypto. >> that is exactly right. it starts with language

actually, i am a storyteller by trade obviously as an actor. words are our tools, which can be used for a variety of purposes to inspire, to entertain, but also to deceive and so with cryptocurrency, our degree in economics. they are not currencies, they don't function like currencies, there instead investments. people are using them like currencies either. they are investments, they are unregulated investments. unfortunately we have a sad history of this in the 1920s before we had regulation and federal security laws, it was the wild west and the roaring twenties was all fun until it all came crashing down. in the crash of 1929 that red lead to the great depression. the powers that be realized that we needed some rules. unfortunately, they're much more similar to unregulated securities. and unfortunately a lot of regular americans have lost real money. >> yeah, they have.

my question to you is, especially the celebrities, maybe they don't have the degree that you have and all that. but what about the people managing their money, how did this get so out of control. cryptocurrency is a very powerful and compelling story. crypto basically became a story that was going to fix all of the problems with our admittedly flawed regulated financial system. and so i think the story of cryptocurrency had a lot of power because most people could agree on the premise. our current system is deeply flawed. but unfortunately, that is make the story of cryptocurrency true. as for my fellow celebrity colleagues, i can't speak on any of their behalf, but they were given bad advice from their agents, the managers, lawyers, whoever they should've done their due diligence. but this is why we have a rule, you should not be giving financial advice if you're not a licensed financial adviser, the celebrities are not talking

quadrants. they're hawking unregulated securities or exchanges to trade them. it is a big problem and also person brand, they should not have done it. unfortunately they don't realize these things. >> when you did the research on this with your co-author i'm just curious, are their winners and losers are there people who are making off with tons of money with no consequences? or is everyone ultimately going to fall victim to crypto. >> there are definitely winners and losers. cryptocurrency resembles a ponzi scheme or multi level marketing scheme, academic studies have shown that in multi level parking schemes, 99% of people lose, but 1% profit. if you imagine a period, then it is everyone at the bottom making the retailer traitors, most from lose money, and the top or the people that run the crypto exchanges. the venture capital firms, they issued coins, some of them are

now facing criminal charges, or civil charges, sam bankman-fried who i interviewed in july of last year, before he was arrested and charged with fraud. alex mashinsky who i interviewed last year before he was arrested last week and charged with fraud. these are the people that would make money if they could get away with it. >> all right, the new money is entitled the ease of money, casino capitalism and the golden age of fraud. ben mackenzie, thank you very much, thank you for writing the book, and thank you for being on this morning. >> thank you micah. >> that does it for the first hour of morning joe weekend. but we are not done yet. more of the week's top stories after the break. more of the week's top stories after the break. after the break.

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morning joe weekend. >> i like when you bring it to me. miles and miles to get you coffee this morning. >> i know you did, i appreciate it. let's jump right in and take a look at some of the weeks of stories. >> was a good? >> will russell is one of the presidents biden, he is the guy who carried pickaxe and a comb, so it was around the president to ensure that administrative tasks like that were fulfilled. and he's depicted in photographs, he was apparently with the president back and forth to the ellipse and to the

oval office. on january 6th. >> that was a lead investigator for the january 6th committee describing the latest witness to appear before the federal granary hearing evidence about the january 6th insurrection. and all of trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 election. william russell testified yesterday, he is a longtime aide to the former president who was reportedly by trump's side for most of the day on january 6th 2021. although he has previously testified before the grand jury. russell's level of cooperation is unclear. since he still works for the trump campaign. we did get a possible hint as to why prosecutors are questioning him in a bizarre scene that played out during an unrelated court proceeding. in the same building where russell was being questioned, his lawyer showed up late for

hearing for a different client. >> got a busy lawyer. was it bank fraud? >> no, it was a plan -- a client who was sentenced for his role on january 6th. when the judge pressed him on why he was late, the lawyer said that he did not want to leave law russell alone with the special counsel's prosecutors because his client was quote, being asked questions which potentially involved executive privilege. that could indicate that the doj is questioning wrestled help piece together russell's words and actions from the day of the insurrection. the judge then sent a u.s. marshal to sow in the doj's prosecutors to the courtroom where they had a tense private discussion at the bench. >> that is fascinating. >> let's bring in jackie, she is an msnbc contributor and jackie, what more do you know about william russell and what he might be sharing with the federal grand jury?

>> yeah micah, it was an extra scene that played out yesterday in the d.c. courthouse wednesday. he showed up late to the sentencing of federico the january 6th defendant because of the length of the questioning of his client will russell. the january six committee and now jack smith's team of prosecutors has most likely put together a very comprehensive account of that day on january 6th and trump's actions. but there's no one who is perhaps more close to the president during that time period and maybe who knows him better than the body man as we have already seen, for example with someone like his coconspirator in the mar-a-lago documents case who replace will russell as the post presidency. this is someone who follows the president around all the time, knows all the most intimate details, and could give a really clear and detailed and

insightful view into trump's mindset on that day. of course there are already countless other people, witnesses who have testified to jack smith's team. we know that for example during the january six committee, we heard from people like nicholas luna, julie referred, these are all aides to ivanka trump, to former president trump who detailed some of the events leading up to the january 6th rally where trump whipped up the crowd into a fever prior to them attacking the u.s. capitol were trump was on the phone with a former vice president mike pence at the time then vice president ahead of the electoral certification. we had people who had said that trump, the conversation was extremely heated. we heard from ivanka trump who said that the president had never taken such a tone with the vice president, he called him a win, the word. but again, will russell's testimony still could be really

important for smith in terms of wrapping up the final stage of this investigation. >> jacqui, is sam stein here, i want to talk about sort of a side figure in all of this. the attorney stand woodward, who seems to represent basically everyone in trump world, in these various charges that they are facing, he was involved in a weird situation yesterday, involving william russell, running from one trial to another. i've been able to wrap my head around this, but i'm sure you have. how does having one connective tissue defense attorney impact these types of cases if at all? >> yes, it certainly is a head-scratching situation that set up. but it is definitely a common one, past presidents have also use this kind of joint defense situation and it definitely raises a lot of sort of obvious questions about information

sharing and the ability for witnesses to kind of all strategize and come to some sort of agreement on testimony. at the end of the day, there's only so much that these lawyers, these defense lawyers can do for example yesterday, the big issue that would work revealed to the federal judge mcfadden who scolded him for showing up late to the sentencing was that he said to the judge, i'm late because the prosecutor it's -- jack smith's prosecutors were infringing on my clients claims of executive privilege. the questioning ran late. but in something like that, we have already seen the court overrule those sorts of claims and ultimately compel these witnesses to be truthful. we have already also seen charges pressed against trump conference and allies, people like -- for making false statements, so there is a lot on the line here,

a lot more so than was on the line for some of those people who simply declined to cooperate with the congressional investigation, although i must note that will russell is someone, is not someone who the january six committee actually reached out to, nor interviewed. >> that is crazy, it was a lot going on, watching -- thank you so much. you just look at his law, you're running from one unrelated case to another trump related case. so january six to another, will justice ever be done? think about all the people who are in jail now because of january the 6th, because of donald trump. all the indictments against donald trump, go back and think about all the people who worked for donald trump, his national security adviser. indicted, arrested, indicted, charged, his campaign manager charged, sent to jail, his

assistant campaign manager, charged, sent to jail, his political director steve bannon, i guess counsel to the president, charged, sent to jail. and found guilty, and then pardoned, there may be another charge out there. the dude in south florida that makes -- the nixon dude with the funny glasses, i forget his name right now. they arrested -- what is his name again? >> stone. >> roger stone, that's right. always forget rodgers name. roger, arrested, it is crazy how many people, if we had a running list connected to donald trump, his administration, his campaign, who have already been charged and convicted for crimes. there is never been a presidency close to this. >> no, there's never been

anything like this because there's never been the kind of rampant criminality and insanity that we saw in the trump presidency. and so a whole lot of lawyers are shopping for new yachts because assuming they're getting paid. one question is, who is paying this lawyer who is running back and forth from case the case? in any event, yes, this is a level of criminality, proven criminality and increasingly punished criminality that we've never seen before. in our history, and i hope we never see again. but it has to be a message to anybody who gets a phone call, a subpoena from jack smith. go in, tell the truth. these claims of executive

privilege have basically all been denied. that argument isn't working. go in, tell the truth, you will be a whole lot better off then if you try to stonewall in some way because if you do that, you are likely to end up in jail. that is kind of where a lot of people are. look at walnut who came in and essentially lied to dismiss prosecutors and said that he didn't know anything about documents. it turned out that he was moving boxes of them and now he is a criminal defendant on federal charges. so i don't know if people are getting this message that the thing to do, you better tell the truth and cooperate. but if they are not, they're gonna pay the consequences. >> stay with us, morning joe weekend continues. after a short break. d continues. after a short break. (vo) consumer reports evaluates vehicles for car shoppers in... ...reliability, safety, owner satisfaction,

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nameless third party ticket could potentially help joe biden and a hypothetical rematch against donald trump? so look at this, without a third party option, the survey shows biden beating trump by seven points, 47%, to 40%. with a third party ticket on the ballot, biden's victory over trump gross to nine points 37%, to 28%. >> that's so interesting. >> when a lot of distracted by the third party option here. we don't know what the third of will be. let's put that to the side. let's just talk about some -- i don't know, i guess it's with the news of inflation going down, maybe it is news of america's economy being better than the economy of drought anybody else in the world.

maybe it's a great nato summit. yesterday with a poll that showed joe biden up 49 to 44%. today we have a poll showing up by seven points. that was yesterday. we had a poll yesterday in an emerson poll today showing by seven points. when as many, said it's a brutal poll for donald trump, let's circle back and say what you and i have been saying for the very beginning. any indictment, i can't believe we have to say this, but you have to say this in the podcasts in the pundit world. any indictment is a bad indictment. the fact that a couple months ago i jokingly put the over under four indictments on donald trump in a lot of people said that -- he's already going to blow past that? and probably get indicted in georgia? and then possibly get indicted in new jersey? it shows republicans are dealing with a guy who has four

or five indictments against him. he's got a new york judge saying he raped e. jean carroll. he's got january 6th riots behind. and he's got an attempt to overthrow an election behind him. you know, this doesn't really pull well in the suburbs of atlanta and philly and detroit. all this whining, all of this whining about how bad things are for democrats. i'm not saying that. i think it's pretty good. >> you, know there is two tracks. there is the biden track and then there's the trump. track let's look at the biden track. and you mentioned. it just the economic numbers are stunningly good, everywhere you go, it is finally a delay. you talk about the show, wait a, second every number is so good. the unemployment numbers, the gdp, numbers the manufacturing numbers, consumer sentiment numbers are starting to catch up with it. if you look at a trend. line we don't have steve here

today. you are going to say that economically it looks like things are staying on track and will continue to go in that direction. then you go on the trump track and you go, well, it's 500 days until the election. what good can happen for trump going forward that is gonna start to push the poll numbers in the other direction? it's hard to come up with anything. because as you, said looking at another one or two indictments. when is trump when all the sudden come up with a new policy? some policies that are going to take the suburban voters that are gonna make them forget january 6th, the possible indictments. looking, forward forget the snapshot of today, it is hard to prognosticate and say what is going to cause trump to go forward and cause biden to go back? every trend is starting to percolate in that direction that is pro biden. rectio th at is pro >> i think the probler anybody arguing against this, joe, is that when donald trump

went down the escalator, no one thought he could win the presidency. everyone who said that was completely wrong. people laugh and thought it was impossible. you have a situation where he is a former president and he has done things like take very bad acts and normalize them. whether it is rape, whether it is saying to a female attorney about a woman who is accused him of defamation, sexual abuse, you're not my type, whether it is hush money to a porn star that he had an affair with. whether it is inciting riots. he has taken very bad things and he has normalized, them he has desensitized the public to just how bad they are. and before you say oh, that's not possible. look at kevin mccarthy. the guy has federal indictments coming his way. and on him. and the weight of federal indictments do not stop republican politicians,

including the speaker of the house to try to somehow normalize it. normalize what happened on january 6th. so that causes a bit of concern about what could happen during the presidential election. still ahead on morning joe, we spoke a lot here about the dangers of social media. particularly about its impact on the mental health of young girls. our next guest says kids are even more in the bag of social media. democratic senator, chris murphy, joins us straight ahead to explain that. you are watching morning joe. we will be right back. watching morning joe we will be right back. our heritage is ingrained in our skin. and even when we metamorphosize into our new evolved form, we carry that spirit with us. because you can take alfa romeo out of italy.

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the best advice i ever got was to invest with vanguard for my retirement. the second best? stay healthy enough to enjoy it. so i started preparing physically and financially. then you came along and made every mile worth it. hi mom. at vanguard you're more than just an investor, you're an owner. helping you prepare for today's longer retirement. that's the value of ownership. this, week in new york, members of the united nations security council met for the first time to discuss the growing threat posed by artificial intelligence. to international peace, and

stability. the u.n. secretary general called for a watchdog to act as a governing body that would regulate, monitor and enforce a.i. regulations. as concerns over artificial intelligence continue to grow, our next guest says there is a similar problem with our children and social media. democratic senator, chris murphy, is warning in the new york times that due to a lack of regulation, algorithms are making kids desperately unhappy. senator murphy joins us now. we talked a lot about teens and the data out there that shows that suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety, is plaguing our teens and, in many cases, young girls in developing minds. as they become addicted to social media and influenced by social media. and made to feel less than by social media.

we are now seeing that it's not just teens, it is kids? >> this is an epidemic that is really hitting all of our kids regardless of age. it's not just teenagers that are on amongst social media. we know even though these sites say they don't let anybody under 13 on, whether it's instagram or tiktok or youtube, there are plenty of young kids on the sites as well. what we have seen is an epidemic of young people who are reporting intense feelings of loneliness, withdrawing from social connection and are often having suicidal ideations. there is just not a coincidence between that rise and loneliness and sadness and the social media age. so what i wrote about in this piece is, you know, one of the real problems with social media is that this algorithm, which sort of feeds kids content and connection on a conveyor belt

is robbing kids the real rituals of childhood, which is discovery, exploration, the search for things that you're interested in and people you want to connect with. when that connection and when those interests are just fed to you by an algorithm on a smartphone, you are robbed of that important exercise of going out and discovery for yourself what you're interested in. i think that's part of what's driving kids unhappiness today. the fact that they are just being delivered content and interests and hobbies and connection on their phones, rather than going out and doing the work that often provides you with more value when you find something that really interests you or you find a connection that's meaningful. it's that effort that often makes it even more fulfilling once you make that connection. >> senator, good morning. as a parent of two teenagers, i appreciate your persistent attention to this issue. it's so serious for so many families across the country.

i would like for you to tell our audience more about the 90 minute conversation you had with a bunch of teenagers in suburban connecticut and i don't know if it shocked you because you're aware of the problem, but it threw you back on your heels a little bit some of the things you heard. then off, that what you think some solutions might be? a course a lot of it falls to us parents to have our kids but the phones down and do some of that discovering you're talking about. but what else can be done to attack this problem? >> so it was that conversation that caused me to write this piece for the new york times. i was talking about a piece of legislation that i introduced with senator cotton that bill did those three things. it required parental consent for teenagers to be on social media. it requires age verification, to make sure that kids under 13 aren't getting on the sites like tiktok. but it also bans the use of the algorithm for teenagers. meaning you can't use your swipe history to continue to

perfect content, which often is sending kids down dangerous rabbit holes because kids are swiping on disturbing content. i thought it was going to beat parental consent provision that was most concerning to these kids, but it wasn't. it was the ban on the use of the algorithm. these kids were really dependent on the algorithm. they really couldn't envision a world in which they had to expend effort to find content that they were interested in. a google search to these kids was way too onerous undermines. they were scared of the fact that tiktok or youtube might not just be delivering them content tailored for them. they feared that they would be more unhappy if they had to do that work. of course, the evidence is to the contrary. the evidence is that a decade ago, when teenagers actually had to do more work, to find things that they cared about, or to make connection with peers, they were actually happier. they were less lonely.

and that part of the conversation really scared me. it convinced me that these kids today have become addicted to the algorithm. they've become addicted to these platforms. they don't know what they're missing. it made me feel that the legislation we have introduced, getting rid of that algorithm for kids under 18 is even more important than we thought when we first introduced it. >> coming up on morning joe, in 2018, the new york times took the highly unusual step of publishing a revealing op-ed by an anonymous senior administration official that roiled washington and infuriated then president, donald trump. two years later, miles taylor, who left his position as chief of staff in the department of homeland security, made public his authorship of the article. he joins us with a warning to save democracy from the next trump. you are watching morning joe, we will be right back. e watching morning joe we will be right back. we will be right back. permission to dig in?

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administration and the country was turned upside down by the anonymous opinion piece in the new york times from a -- a group of staffers working to

keep trump's more radical impulses at bay while still governing the country. quote, the dilemma in which he does not fully grasp is that senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from his within to frustrate his agenda and his worst inclination. i would know, i am one of them. the piece continued. there is a quiet resistance within the administration of people choosing to put country first. but the real difference will be made by everyday citizens rising above politics, reaching across the aisle and resolving to shed the labels in favor of a single one, americans. >> chief of staff, miles taylor, joins us. he's here with a new book. blowback, a warning to save democracy.

miles, i obviously onset, we have a question for you. miles, congrats on the book. walk us through this. what are you trying to detail here? obviously your op-ed? it's illuminating to the american people. the efforts that some of the administration were trying to do to stop donald trump's worst impulses. he is not gone. this book is a warning to what to come next. >> look, no one wants to read another trump raft respective. i'll be the first to say that, my god, the shelves are filled with them. we don't care what trump's memories are. what i was frustrated by is no one is painting a picture of how truly devastating it would be to the fabric of our republic to make this mistake again. to put donald trump back in the white house or a copycat. and right, now when you look at the, field most of the field, with a few exceptions, are lining up to be trump's successor, to be that mega copycat. people don't have to listen to me. for this book, i spent two years interviewing the people closest to trump, his cabinet

secretaries from his administration. senior republicans in congress to say, paint a clear eyed picture for me about what that second mega term will look like. it was not a pretty picture. >> a little bit of reporting. this week, from the new york times, suggesting that part of the trump effort, where he to, when we're beat to strip down the government agencies, try to seize control of bureaucracy. institutions in our democracy which, by law, or tradition, were independent from the west wing. trump wants to get rid of all of that. he wants to consolidate even more power in the executive branch, frankly, in the oval office itself. how big of a concern is that for you? what steps could've been done to prevent it? >> look, trump in the article in the new york times, that was just the tip of the iceberg. great reporting from maggie haberman and jonathan swan. this book then goes a level deeper and details the play-by-play department by department, democratic guard riled by democratic guardrail, and the plans to dismantle those guardrails. look, i'm not a political person. i never worked on a political

campaign in my life. i got my career started in national security. that is where i work. i thought i would spend my career after 9/11 focused on foreign terrorist threats. russia and china, iran, instead, the biggest threat to the national security of the united states right now is donald j trump. the potential of a savvier successor taking over the maga movement. why? because in these interviews that i spoke to with people in the book, longtime public servants, other national security officials. they detailed how the powers of government will be heavily weaponized in the second term. i was actually hesitant to put some of that in this book because i thought people were going to think that this is hyperbolic. and then true to form, two months, ago donald trump comes out and announces the theme of his campaign, which is i am your retribution. throughout this book from the defense department to dhs to the department of education. his former officials detailed how he wants to weaponize those tools to get after his political adversaries. that is not how government is supposed to work. >> coming, up amid the historic

hollywood shut down we will be joined by the screen actors guild president. fran drescher, as actors and screenwriters push for better wages and protections. morning joe is coming right back. back. subway's now slicing their meats fresh. that's why subway's proffered by this champ. and this future champ. and if we proffer it, we know you'll proffer it too. he's cocky for a nineteen year old.

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second because members fight for better pay and working conditions. this week we talked to the president of the screen actors guild, fran drescher, about the strike and the new reality in the entertainment industry. here is part of that conversation. >> really good to have you on the show, we have been watching everything that you have had to say and also, what bob iger had to say. and i'm curious what your response is to the fact that he says you guys have a level of expectation that is not realistic. >> you know, the man makes

$78,000 a day. so, bless a mid -- 20 20 million dollar bonus. he is the last person to talk about what is realistic, when the majority of my members can't even meet their health insurance minimum. and i think that he never attended one single meeting at the negotiation. he was completely absent. except to make that recording. at the camp for billionaires where they all arrive on their private jets. so you know, it is like, you can't even talk about reality with this. i don't really want to make it about him. this is a workers movement. and it is about greed and trying to when -- they get bonuses depending on stock market shareholders

performance. and so, of course they're going to try to squeeze everybody to make the stock go up so more people will buy stock. but when your entire business model is the foundation for that -- when the foundation is us, and you're trying to screw us as if you are a futile medieval times, and we are your surfs, you, know it is like, wake up and smell the coffee. the jake is up. it is time for you to recognize that you have to pivot and understand that the business model is changing and the old contract no longer can be negotiated in a way that will give economically the

performers there do. >> so what is the pivot exactly because you hear the arguments about whether or not you are likeness can be used. is it it argument about a.i.? is the bottom line about money? and what exactly is it that you need in order to make this strike and. and how long do you think members of the unions can stick to the strike? >> well, look, we have unprecedented strike authorization votes from our members because they are on the ground living this inequity. when not the ceos, who are living the high life. so they feel like they are at the breaking point where they can't take it anymore, another contract for three more years where the minimum's for the majority of the members does

not reflect the amount that catches up to inflation. so in real money, what they are offering us would be less than what we were making in 2020. and that is what we are supposed to take all the way to 2026? we need at least an 11% increase in the minimum's to catch up with inflation. all other labor unions work with inflation. inflationary increases. not our union, not our contract. so with the amount that -- the caps are the same, where they cut you off with residuals, since i think 1980 or something. the whole thing is outdated and does not really apply to the new business model, which is

streaming influencing the industry. it's disembowel the old business model, so in streaming, the name of the game's subscribers. it's not about the long deputy of the series. and you can see how the public is being trained to accept what is called limited series. we very short episodes per season. maybe six or eight, if you're, lucky you get ten. and then the series maybe will go three or four, if it is considered successful. when i did -- some seasons waited 28 episodes. never anything less than 22 or 24. and then it continues to have a very long tale of revenue, which pays all of the people that worked on the show continuously. and so once we got revenue

sharing, in the form of residuals, it all worked as long as the business model was predicated on the longevity of the show because of eyeballs and dollars. if those two elements were, there the show would stay on. shows state on ten years! but now it's not that way because once the show does the heavy lifting, for bringing in a new surge of subscribers, and their algorithms tell them that, you know, after ten it starts to go downhill. after three, four years, maybe we are making our current subscribers happy, but we're not getting more subscribers. and more subscribers is the name of the game. so we will reconditioned the current subscribers to be happy or disappointed that, oh my favorite show descended, but,

wait we will tantalize them with another fine dragon. one more big store. one more big director that cost a fortune. meanwhile, where is our revenue sharing? on six or ten episodes a season. we cannot economically live on that. and so we have to go into the other pocket, which is what the new business model dictates that was forced upon us. we have to go into the subscriptions pocket. we were completely stonewalled. i don't think they thought that we were going to approach this problem with such an intelligent analysis of this business. but we cannot make incremental changes to an old contract that no longer applies, how much could they possibly give us? we are never going to catch up because the series and episode

buys are considerably smaller,. we are seeing more and more shows the don't even have serious regulars on it anymore. so it is time that we shift over,. but as soon as they heard that, they stonewalled us. no, and they never opened up that door. >> thanks to fran drescher, we should note that comcast, which owns nbcuniversal, is one of the entertainment companies represented by the alliance of motion picture and television producers. we will be right back with more morning joe weekend. mor morning joe weekend. (mom) the moment i loved our subaru outback most... was the moment they walked away from it. (daughter) mom! (mom) oh, thank goodness. and that's why our family will only drive a subaru.

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highly anticipated movie of the summer, oppenheimer, which takes us inside the mind of

robert oppenheimer, the father of the atomic bomb. with us, now the director, christopher nolan, and producer, emmett thomas. emma, let's start by talking -- as if christopher is not here. oh my, gosh such an amazing director. 12 levels, how does he do it? you have said, the key to oppenheimer, and getting this extraordinary cast, the best i've ever seen, is actually the fact that he's an incredible writer. >> luckily we have an amazing cast to very much wants to work with chris as a director. i think that i would imagine, as an actor, what you really are deciding is based on the words on the page. the script was fantastic. it was slightly miraculous, in my, opinion because i don't know if you've seen the book but it's a big weighty book. he managed to make a really dramatic and exciting script out of that. >> there is a moment that

really stands out to me. it is with the general and oppenheimer going back and forth, they somehow managed to encapsulate the relationship. the pushing in the polling where the general says, you want the nobel prize -- and he said, why aren't you a general? >> maybe i will. b >> and there's this back and forth. but i just think okay, he's got this extraordinarily complex relationship, which he is able to write to. and explain to the audience very quickly in a way that pulls in the audience. who these two people are individually and together. when >> general grow selected oppenheimer to run it. nobody thought it was right. he was making the most unlikely choice. there was something about that first meeting, as i read about it in american prometheus, the book i'm adapting. it's an incredible book about

the life of oppenheimer, oppenheimer san upper to nutty to connect with gross. son opportunity. he was a very ambitious man. he made his pitch. he made his pitch on how he would bring together all the different intellects and personalities that they needed to bring together and make this a practical proposition. >> when we talked with kylian, he said something about oppenheimer that i had not picked up in the movie or even in the book. he was a great synthesizer. he might not have been the best in the lap, might not have been the best mathematician. but the world belongs to the synthesizers. he was one of. them >> he absolutely was one of. them in a lot of ways, that question we ask is why doesn't have a nobel prize? because by, that most of his contemporary was not the absolute expert in one thing. but what he could do, -- my friend kept thorn who was on the project as an adviser, he was a --

we made interstellar together, and tenet. he was able to attend seminars that oppenheimer ran early and keeps career. he was able to talk to killion about okay, how he would run these discussions. apparently had a near miraculous gift for listening to an incredibly complex argument, a thesis put forward by a speaker, and then summarizing it very quickly for the others and moving on to getting input from somebody else. that is a skill that, and years of the manhattan project, when they're in this desperate race against the not seized to harness the, adam that was a key thing for the proposition. they could have all the theory on how to put the, adam what a chamber action might do. but as the film says, theory can only take you so far. they actually had to make a machine, make a machine obstruction that could go on air. that's a very different thing

to theorizing in a classroom. >> that does it for us, morning joe we'll be back monday morning, have a great rest of your weekend. >> this is the katie phang show. live from washington, d.c.. we've got lots of news to cover, and lots of questions to answer, so let's get started. imminent indictment. special counsel jack smith's january six investigation might deliver a big bag this week for the twice impeached, so far twice indicted, one term ex president. but he has got georgia on his mind. plus, from the campaign trail to the courtroom. trump appointed judge, aileen cannon. sets a trial date in the mar-a-lago classified documents case. and it is during