the events of this week left no doubt. the backdrop of the 24 campaign will be donald trump's many legal battles. judge aileen cannon circles a day on the calendar for the classified documents trial, as trump receives a target letter from jack smith on his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. former maryland governor larry hogan has been more outspoken than most republicans when it comes to the former president, and he is coming up first. plus, i've got a few thoughts about rfk junior after house republicans platform to his dangerous conspiracy theories this week on -- capitol hill. stacey plaskett is the ranking democrat on the committee heard's testimony and she joins me live. later you walk in the park with congressman jamie raskin. we talked shakespeare, battling cancer, and how he coped with tragedy while fighting for democracy.

so on friday, judge aileen cannon announced that the trial in the classified documents case is set to take place on may 20th of next year. if you just did a little bit of math there, you're right. that falls back in the middle of the heat of the 2024 presidential campaign. this means that trump could already be the presumptive nominee by the time he goes to trial. not only that, it means that he could be convicted, even sentenced, before election day. this raises all sorts of questions, and frankly they are questions that we as a country have never had to grapple with before. we are going to try to dig into some of those today on the show. also, this week, special counsel jack smith informed trump that he is a target in the january 6th investigation. i just want to have a sidebar on that for a moment. because i am guilty of this as well. we all need to stop short hitting this cases as the january 6th investigation. here is why. because as a vicious and

violent and that day was, and it was both of those things, the insurrection was the culmination of a coordinated attempt to steal the 2020 election. the loud physical attacked on the capitol followed a quiet, months-long attack on the rule of law and democracy itself involved creating slates of fake electors pledged to donald trump that states had actually lost it involves attempts to co-opt the department of justice to approach the big lie, it involves misleading donors and fundraising off of falsehoods. and then of course it involved standing back as a mob descended on the u.s. capitol off. these are pieces in a larger puzzle that jack smith is putting together as he investigates trump's systematic effort to stop the transfer of power. overturn a legitimate election and incite a violent mob to attack the nation's capital. so was all stopped short handing it out of the january six investigation and as we

prevent it from happening in the future, it is important to recognize it is more the single day. now, while some republicans have been slightly closer towards criticizing trump, the balances are made largely silent. my next guest, however has been anything but silent. joining me now is former maryland governor larry hogan. so you are a savvy, political guy, have been elected as a republican governor in a blue state. as we're looking towards a potential indictment in the overturned to overturn the election, do you think that could change the dynamics in the republican primary? because so far, none of these indictments or legal troubles have really hurt trump, it seems. >> it hasn't hurt trump the way that most people would imagine it should have hurt trump. but it has impacted the dynamic of the republican primary race. the fact that nobody else can get any traction or attention because all we are talking about is donald trump's legal troubles. so while people have not left trump as quickly as i would

have hoped, there are about half of the people in the republican primary who do not want donald trump. they just can't decide on the other 11 candidates they want to support. because they aren't getting much oxygen or airtime. >> you have been, not silent, but you've really been calling out former president trump for his involvement in his efforts to overturn the election. you did tweet this week though, quote we have to very unpopular nominees and both of them potentially face very serious legal troubles. it seems like, with that tweet, between that context, that we were drawing in equivalence there. so i just wanted to give you an opportunity to kind of cleared up. are you comparing trump's efforts to overturn the election with legal troubles or legal issues of joe biden. i have been very critical of donald trump since day one, from the very beginning when he was trying to put out the false lies about the stolen election, i was the first republican in america to speak out against it,

and i was very involved in the actual events of january 6th when i sent in the maryland governor -- >> i know you are, you are very outspoken. that's why want to ask you about that tweet to clear what you meant. because it sounds like equivalency there. -- >> the tweet came from an appearance on another network where they asked a question about. it might answer was that we do have 70% of the people in america do not want donald trump or joe biden to be president. they are both historically low approval numbers and they both are potentially facing legal troubles that is all very true but i'm not trying to make a correlation on what troubles were more important than the other. obviously trump has been indicted and probably will be indicted multiple more times than the current president has not. but he certainly got some legal issues that he is concerned about. >> i think on that note though, we can all agree that there is a difference between not a biding by a subpoena, and returning highly classified

documents and voluntarily returning that, if that's what you are referring to. >> on the documents, it's very clear. but there are other investigations going on with all sorts of things involving the biden family that are also a distraction from voters when we should be focused on who should be the next president. >> i want to move on, because there's a lot to cover, but under biden's not in office he's not serving in government, so i think we can all agree, not a -- equivalent. >> i can agree with that. >> i want to ask you because you've answered this number of times, so bear with me. would you categorically rule out voting for donald trump if he is the republican nominee? >> yes, i've said that over and over and over again. i don't vote for either of another two elections either. >> and given that you said also that you don't think he will be the nominee, are there candidates out there, you've also been critical of desantis, other candidates out there that you think could have a shot at taking him on? >> -- i hope so, i'm a little frustrated this point time that, as i said a moment ago. nobody is really getting traction. d a momenttrump is a 50% in mos,

and most of the other folks, i think there are 12 candidates, six of them are my former colleagues as governors. i know most of the candidates running and i think maybe seven or eight of them are really capable good, candidates. but they are not getting much attention. and i'm hoping that someone will rise up and become a candidate that i can get excited about and get behind. somebody that maybe had a more positive message that can take the party in a different direction. but as we sit here today i can't tell you who that is going to be. >> you know them all well and i know you're not dressing someone right now, you are welcome to a bill. who should get more attention? who is being under value waited for? >> most of the field. i think donald trump is getting all the attention he is the elephant in the room, but desantis was getting wall-to-wall coverage, but it's mostly been about his campaign failing to launch, or sitting in the wrong direction. there are a whole bunch of other folks that just are not getting anyone to pay attention, and they are strong. tim scott has got a great,

positive message. he started come. out he's raised a lot of money, he is now moved out of third place in iowa. chris christie came from nowhere to be in third place in new hampshire. >> in 2016, you endorsed chris christie, why not? now >> i try to wait see how they perform. he is a very good friend and i'm glad he's out there taking it to donald trump and speaking truth to power. but you've got to see who's gonna have the best trans of actually winning the election. >> so you said you aren't considering a third party run, but you also did put out, i noticed, a couple people -- many people did a couple campaign style videos. you've been out there quite publicly. if you are offered are asked to serve as a third party nominee, are you open to that? >> look, i've been involved in this organization for a long time. five years ago i started group called in america united. several years ago i also agreed to be the honorary co-chair of the labels with joe lieberman. i am a big believer in bipartisan cooperation in reaching across the aisle to

get things done. that is how i was successful in the bluest state america. but this is far too often the future, and we don't know what's going to happen. i said that if no one wants the candidate a or candidate be, maybe there will be a candidate c. but right now i am focused on getting the republican party on track and trying to nominate a good republican that can do a better job and that can potentially win a race in november. >> nbc paul did show that 44% of registered voters would consider voting for a third party candidate. those are the numbers that i have. it is not that uncommon, because back in 2016, that number was 46%, even a slightly bit higher. would you acknowledge that the appetite for third party candidates is not unique, necessarily, to this year? >> no, i would totally disagree with that. >> the polling suggests otherwise. >> i don't know the player citing but there are dozens and dozens of polls that can give to really clear facts. so 70% of people in america did not want biden or trump. they don't want a rematch. >> hold on a second because

they don't want them to run. that does not mean they have a desire and an appetite for a third party candidate. those are different questions. >> let me give you some more polls. 59% of the people say they would in multiple polls once 59 and once a 64% would consider a third party alternative. and there was another poll that just came out this week that said given the choice between trump, biden, and neither, neither winds. so in my lifetime, we have never had a time, ever, even close to this. 49% are registered independent, that is up about 25 points from 25 years ago. i'm not saying it's going to happen, but i'm saying there is more of an appetite for it than ever before in history. >> you can't beat something with nothing. i think we all agree with that. >> i agree with that. >> so is there any polling you have that suggests that any of the third party candidates mentioned, yourself, joe lieberman, others, could beat donald trump and joe biden? >> the campaign had not been run. yes you just don't know what it

looks like. i mean i know the only place we've been on the ballot together, i do pretty well. i finished my eight years as governor with a 77% approval rating. highest in the country. it was over 70 with democrats, independents, in republicans. of course, i'm not well-known across the country. but you've got to run a race to see what it's gonna look like. right now it's people who are pretty far ahead from what they've been doing before for voting for a third party. >> back in 2016, also when there was an appetite for a third party candidate, there was a third party candidate, angel stein won more than the comp -- the difference between hillary clinton and donald trump in putting donald trump over the end. so how can you be so confident, how can no labels be so confident that a third party won't elect trump? >> we have a third party candidate now, the green party candidate, is polling about four or 5% away from biden. so if you want to talk about a spoiler, they should focus in on cornell west, or they should

focus in on the people that are pulling 30% of the people away in a primary. no labels just has an idea that maybe, if we get to this point where nobody in america wants a republican or democrat, they might run a ticket. we don't know who they are. and we don't know who they would pull from, or what it would be a republican or democrat. but they're obviously issues and flaws, or we wouldn't have two candidates that so many people don't want to vote for. >> governor hogan, thank you for joining me here this afternoon. i really appreciate you taking the time. >> thank you. >> up next, i'm so many questions now for the trial date that has been set for donald trump. could anything push it past the election? could we see cameras in the courtroom? i've got the perfect person to ask, plus, my thoughts on what is the right fascination with rfk junior reveals about their playbook at this moment and later, congressman jamie raskin's move in a wide range of conversation about how he handled personal grief all fighting for our democracy. we are just getting started today, we will be right back. today, we will be right back i'm barbara and i'm from st. joseph, michigan.

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between now and may of 2024. trump's lawyers will no doubt try to use every delay tactic in the book to dry out the legal proceedings. but, apart from, that there are practical questions about how this trial will actually take place. will trump as a former president and current presidential contender gain any special consideration. and how the breakneck pace the campaign embrace how trump stand trial? i can't think of anyone better to dig into all of these questions the neal katyal. he is a former acting u.s. solicitor general in an msnbc legal analyst. i have so many questions, but i want to start with the timeline of this.

i know you said that there is no reason for delay, but there is also every reason to think that trump's legal team wants to delay the process. i mentioned some of, them but what tactics are you going to be watching for that you expect they might try to deploy? >> so, first of, all jen, i think that donald trump had a really terrible week. not just because of this may 20th scheduling and the stolen documents case, but also receiving the target letter from jack smith that you mentioned a moment ago about the january 6th in the days leading up to january 6th. and potential crimes that donald trump committed. so i think that bottom line in the news this week is that it is very likely that donald trump is going to be facing two more additional indictments from jack smith and from georgia before, say, barbenheimer leaves the theaters. it is really that severe for him. and with respect to the timing here, you're absolutely right,

may 20th, if it holds, is an appropriate day. it is a date well before the election it is a date that can accommodate the campaign schedule and the like, but trump is going to try and take every single thing on appeal. he's gonna say, for example, there is used for classified information, and that procedure of violates his constitutional rights. he's gonna say that there is attorney-client evidence that is being introduced into this criminal trial and that violates his rights in the. like the good thing about our system though is that it is written that defendants camps tape what they want interlocking the media appeals to the court of appeals to the u.s. supreme court. you got away to the end of the trial. trump can try, but i think, right, now may 20th is a trial date that could very well should hold. >> that is incredibly helpful. i was waiting for the barbenheimer reference. we have not had yet in the show today. i wanted to ask you. we have all also been in this terrible week for trump kind of another version of indictment

watch. me when we learned about another of high volume by jack smith and his team that jack smith want to talk to. you will pull you about the timing of a potential indictment. should we all be kind of pressing refresh, or could it all be longer than this week. >> i think we should be pressing refresh, i think it is likely that something will happen this week. so jack smith sent this target letter to donald trump saying that we are looking at you specifically flew a violation of two criminal constitutes. he doesn't have to do that under the justice department rules, but it is very common, it does not mean that he is guaranteeing that there will be an indictment. sometimes target letters are sent when there was no indictment, that is ultimately brought. here, however, i think that all indications are that this is heading to an indictment. you don't set a target letter to a former president unless you are pretty darn sure that you've got the goods. and it does look like that jack smith has the goods.

there are reports of the fact that governor kemp from georgia has been called before jack smith to provide evidence about the fake electors plot. there are suggestions that mark meadows doll trump's former chief of staff may have provided evidence against him to the jacks mitt investigation. and there is of course what we all know. we saw it for two months what donald trump did after the november election. and all of the different things in the january six committee has uncovered a lot, leading a very respected federal judge, judge david carter in california, the federal judge, to say that it is more likely than not that donald trump committed a series of federal felonies, including two of which were put in the jackson uttered it letter. >> in that target letter, it kind of outline two of the charges that many of us expected, conspiracy to defraud the united states, and obstructing an official proceeding. >> what was more surprising to us non lawyers was a

reconstruction era statute on the deprivation of rights. what was your reaction to seeing that in the target letter? >> gratitude. i said from the beginning that that statute, 18 usc to 41, which is enacted to prevent the clue clocks clan from depriving newly-freed african americans of the right to vote and other things that that was an appropriate statute to use. it really does describe what donald trump did, which is that he conspired with others to deprive people of them salons. and what he was doing essentially muzzle state legislator, there was vote fraud here. you can throw out the vote in your state and sending your own hand picks with late of electors to washington d.c. to count in the electoral college. deprive all the citizens in the state like arizona, in georgia, how is a process -- i did argue the version of it

the united states supreme court in a case called moore versus harper. and wanted 6 to 3. it is for some anti-democratic, so corrosive, in 18 usc is exactly the right way to think about going after it. >> neil katyal, thank you as always for providing tons of clarity for all of this legal stuff we are all following. i really appreciate it. up next, my thoughts on republicans admiration for rfk junior. after a week in which they give him a megaphone on capitol hill. congresswoman stacey plaskett spoke out forcefully against him in that hearing, she joins me live. we are back after a quick break. back after a quic break. break. shbacking you could earn on everything with just one card. chase freedom unlimited. so, if you're off the racking... ...or crab cracking, you're cashbacking. cashback on flapjacks, baby backs, or tacos at the taco shack. nah, i'm working on my six pack. switch to a king suite- or book a silent retreat. silent retreat? hold up - yeeerp? i can't talk right now, i'm at a silent retreat. cashback on everything you buy with

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have a new favorite democrat, robert f. kennedy junior. and as long shot presidential run against joe biden had become something of a fixation

in right-wing sessions. leading republican candidate donald trump has openly praised him, fox news has dedicated a considerable amount of your time to him, putting over everything from his workout routine to his family name. he was pulling out well against joe biden even though he's run 50 points behind in that gap is apparently widening as people get to go through the pictures. but fox has published more then videos since he lost his campaign in april. and just to put that in perspective, that kind of expensive coverage is usually reserved over there for woke mickey mouse, communist barbie, and other topics along those lines. and more coverage seems to be coming. sean hannity with rfk junior this week. in republican lawmakers up the sky. when rfk junior testify this week at jim jordan's latest hearing with the so-called feminine weaponization

committee's, republican mayor members, chip roy, gave him a special introduction. gail >> mr. kennedy finds himself receiving a score in both the political left and right. because if one dares challenge the orthodoxy of the powers that be than one of their enemy. as gradually oversee virginia, mr. kennedy no doubt knows the following quote. for, here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead. again >> orthodox, i think he means science, it really makes you wonder what is it that kennedys chance for that has the right to be so head over heels for him? is it his years of work as an anti-vaccine advocate? is it repeatedly debunked claims the vaccines cause autism? is it his trafficking in a variety of covid vaccine conspiracy theories, including ones involving microchips being inserted into all of our bodies? are they fancy his recent comments that covid was quote

ethnically targeted to spare chinese and jewish people? or is it his assertion that antidepressant like prozac have caused the rise of school shootings in america, obviously completely insane and not true? or that wi-fi causes cancer and something called leaky brain, whatever that may be? or is it is claim that chemicals in the water maybe turning kids transgender? i couldn't even cover all of these outlandish, crazy claims, because we need to continue with our show. because we need to conti>> rfk t of them. and i want to know which ones make house republican so eager to platform him. or really it's not about rfk junior at all, but instead about joe biden, like the saying goes. the enemy of my enemy is my friend. that may make more strategic sense but it would be incredibly cynical if republicans were elevating conspiracy theorist who spews false and inaccurate lies, something that could even be damaging to the public and

public health, just to create something for the political opponent. that would be a leak even for the right to embrace a candid enamored with conspiracies, just as a means to advance their own political objectives. they've never sunk that low before, or have they? for >> do except the president obama was born in united states? i >> don't know, i really don't know. >> his father was with lee harvey oswald prior to oswald being shot i mean the whole thing is ridiculous. all of this global warming in that, a lot of it is a hoax. it's a hoax. if you have a windmill anywhere near your house, congratulations. your house just went down 75% in value. and they say the noise causes cancer. you tell me that one, okay? you know, there are those that say you can test too much. you know that? >> who says that? >> we were getting ready to win this election, frankly, we did win this election. so maybe, just maybe, the

problem isn't just rfp junior, or even donald trump. maybe the problem is the tendency to give quits to conspiracy theorists. here's the thing. if you're two explanations, only two here, for why the wright loves rfk junior so much. one is that they genuinely believe in him. and that his conspiracies deserve to be amplified in the national conversation. they think those conspiracies should be out there for. the other explanation is that they don't believe rfk junior, but believed it would be beneficial if they help boost his megaphone anyway. so no matter how bizarre and dangerous his conspiracies may be, it doesn't matter. when explanation is ignorance, the other is cynicism. both are pretty embarrassing look for the right-wing machine trying to prop up this man's campaign. congresswoman stacey plaskett is the ranking member on the committee that heard rfk juniors testimony this week. she joins me after a quick break. it's in our latest weekend routine, i discuss everything from springsteen to shakespeare

with congressman jamie raskin, when i join him for a hike just outside of washington. we will be right back.

>> she called a republican candidates from platform-ing rfk junior. >> these folks have a plan. they want to give expression to

the most vital sorts of speech here in this committee room because it repairs the ground for their own conspiracy theories and pseudoscience. they apparently don't care how many people are hurt or die as consequence of their action. either through lies about that scenes or threats of the safety of witnesses, because nothing, nothing, is more important to them then power. >> congresswoman stacey plaskett there ranking democrat on the subcommittee of government weaponization joins me now. you were very critical of republicans for giving rfk junior a platform, and i'm just trying to figure out why they did this. you all a little bit there, but do you think they are actually on board with these conspiracy theories? it is all about political power and hurting joe biden other democrats, what is your take on that for? >> sure, thanks so much for having me here with you. you know, i think there are two levels to let the republicans

do what they're doing. specifically on this committee. first as we've said, giving our hour of k a platform, which is a direct shot at biden, and his presidency, because rfk junior has said he is running in the democratic primary. so they think that he is going to kind of hurt him a little bit. i believe that over the next year, americans are really gonna learn that the biden ministration has done to support american families and all the good work they are doing. and that's just something that we are not concerned with. i think it is mourns to choice is what they are doing is giving individuals like rfk a platform to desensitize and to also make the biden ministration social media platforms and others hesitant about stopping on truths. stopping misinformation. and stopping what will happen during the height of the 2024 election, presidential election,

which are russian iranian, and chinese trolls that are going on to those social media platforms and trying to suppress the american vote. >> you gave such a powerful opening statement that was the most clear articulations i've heard of why the republican antisense or ship argument is bogus. what are the key points that you wish other democrats and others would be making out there about that argument? >> well you know first of all they want to talk about censorship. but anytime you point out untruths, you are censoring. you are stopping people from speaking. and it's not that we are not stopping you from speaking, people can speak, but we are also going to give the american people the truth so they can have science, facts, in history, against wild, outlandish claims the republicans are trying to get. it's not only going to keep them from going to the polls or suppressing votes or telling untruths, but it is also really

very detrimental to the american people. i mean, rfk had put forth ideas that are both antisemitic, racist, against not just chinese but has been the part of his group for the cause of nasal outbreaks in minnesota against somalia communities. telling black americans not to be vaccinated at all while his own children are vaccinated. and really trying to break down americans belief in truth, as it should be. asking people to be vaccinated an event he was hosting, or something like that, for so telling people not to be vaccinated. >> it is really startling. it was such an interesting thing to call out. i want to ask, you because this week there was also a lot of news on the legal front as it relates to the former president. and the washington post set out to me about how intertwined

donald trump's campaign has been with his legal defense. and because of that, just over half the money he raised last quarter went with his legal bills. if the republican called the continued support him, of course, but is this campaign cam becoming increasingly about keeping him out of prison? how that even allowed from do you so much of that money for his own legal defense? >> well, i don't know the fcc rules with regard to that. and i do recognize that what donald trump for the base that him being in jail is dan being in jail. you know, trying to say that the insurrectionists and those who have been charged rightly by our fbi and by the department of justice for the crimes they committed are in fact them being put to crimes. so it is this fear factor of their own lives he's trying to intertwine himself with which we know that his life is nothing like a regular

americans life and the kind of privileges in the kinds of work that his children have been able to do, utilizing the white house for their own financial gain, is nothing like what would happen in a regular americans lives. but he has really driven his base to believe that. and imprisoning him is imprisoning them which is absolutely ludicrous and what the department of justice is doing is saying that no one is above the law. >> you are steeped deeply into the details of donald trump's actions as a former impeachment manager and i asked one of your colleagues jamie raskin this question. but i'm curious as we await for a potential indictment around trump's efforts to overturn the election what questions do you hope jacked mid investigation will shed light on that maybe you didn't have time or didn't get into details on when you were looking into this? >> sure, first, as many people may know, jamie raskin is not only my colleague but was my law school professor.

so i have enormous respect for him. and the work that he has been able to do in the fight that he has for our republic. you know, the impeachment that was done, and we wanted to do that impeachment while the president was still in office, mitch mcconnell dragged it until after the elect -- the swearing in of president biden. but we really just had a skeleton. and then the january 6th committee, run fabulously by benny thompson, was able to put some sinew on what happened on january 6th. and the lead up to it as you said, jen it's so important doesn't that occurred over protracted period of time. the things i'm hoping that we will hear from from jack smith who has subpoena power who can force people to come in and testify which the committee was unable to do as well as the impeachment didn't was to actually hear conversations to

hear from the people that were closest to the president to have the documents for us to be able to see explicitly what the president was thinking in the lead up and only what he was thinking but what he did to try and destroy our democracy. >> congresswoman stacey plaskett, thank you so much for joining me this afternoon. up next, congressman jamie raskin on the deeply personal trauma he suffered just before the national trauma of january 6th. we talked about that and much more, during a hike donor favorite places on earth, that conversation is coming up after a quick break. k. that breaks your hea rt. like ravette... every step, brought her pain. their only hope: mercy ships. the largest floating civilian hospital in the world. bringing free surgeries to people who have no other hope. $19 a month will help provide urgently needed surgery for so many still suffering. so don't wait, call the number on your screen.

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you're an owner. helping you prepare for today's longer retirement. that's the value of ownership. during the six year -- the jimmy raskin has distinguished him self as a champion of american democracy. as a constitutional scholar turned congressman, he's best known for the impassioned case he made against donald trump's citing the january six

insurrection during trump's second impeachment. but, as i learn, his interest range from william shakespeare to bruce springsteen. in fact, it was a member of the spring spring easter eat bantu gave him the distinctive bandanas he's born since this came out there before lymphoma last year. i recently joined the congressman for a hike in a rock creek park where we discuss that a much more, including the deeply personal story of losing his only son. >> welcome to this congressional district. >> i'm happy to be here. should we go high? >> let's go hike. >> hiking as a part of your life, it's a part of what you do on a regular basis. how often to hike? >> i grew up hiking this park, this part of rock creek park. or i would go with other people, yeah. i remember this area well when i was a kid. what to call of archetype gain

here and rock creek park. it's really an absolutely magical place. as you can see, very thick tree canopy. this is the boundary bridge connecting maryland to washington d.c.. when donald trump was inaugurated and my colleague john lewis called for a boycott, we all decided not to go, i instead went on a hike that i asked my constituents to come. >> that is healthier. now you just entered remission for cancer, which is amazing news. how are you feeling? >> well, thank you for asking, jen. i feel hugely better from what i was feeling like during the thick of chemo. it was a brutal process. i'm back in line, the healthiest. i'm thankful for that. >> you've brought bandanas back to cool, i'd say. you got one from a pretty famous person, stephen van damme, right? >> i didn't get one, i got a dozen. >> what was your reaction when

you got those? >> i couldn't believe. at what had happened was i put one on when my hair really started to fall out with chemo. well then a reporter said to me, you know, what are you doing? are you dress like a pirate? i said i'm dressing like -- because i always thought that it was a cola. he saw the article, and then he sent me a big bag of bandanas. he said these are not a president, they are hand me down. but >> he use them. i know you were a big shakespeare fan, because i've heard you quote shakespeare. >> yes. >> how did that start? do you have a favorite place, on it? >> well, you, i guess it started and high school when i first started reading the players, including romeo and juliet. 12th night. we have a great shakespeare for young people group in my district call bloom and i.

i've written, i've re-written some of the place for the purposes of young people, producing them. that is a wonderful feeling to see the light bulbs go off when they understand what's happening in the play. >> it comes to life. should we sat down for a few minutes? >> sure. >> so this is a place that you have spent a lot of time with their family, hiking. including your son's hobby. how did you connect with him in the park here? >> tommy had come home in the spring semester of 2021 they closed to harvard law school, he was a second year school. he'd come to the park and take a long break. there was nowhere else really to go. after we lost tommy on the last day of 2020, you know, i'd come back to the park, get to recall the times we had together,

think about him. it's been a wet hard time for our family. it's been a long road. tommy said often it's hard to be human. it is hard to be human. he called on everybody to be as compassionate, and as decent as possible to everyone. >> and the period of time after you lost tommy was also the insurrection, the attack on our nation's capital. your daughter was with you. that feels like just a lot of trauma happening in one period of time. how did you even move forward? >> well, when you are going through any of those traumas you don't really experience yourself as having any choice other than to go through it, and to try to respond the best that you can one and some ways.

, the shocking, catastrophic loss of tommy was a certain kind of but armor against the violence and the chaos of january 6th. i had already suffered the absolute worst thing that could ever imagine. when this is going on but, i just experienced a lot of anger, and a lot of wonder about how exactly this all happened, who set it up. but i didn't feel, i didn't feel fear at that point. >> trump has been a test in our system. no question. and so many ways. there is no precedent for so many actions that he has had, is there a system prepared for that? but >> every generation has to decide how to choose. well the 24 century bs entry of democracy and freedom? use of all extraordinary

technologies to expands human happiness and prosperity, or is it going to be the use of the technologies by bullies and autocrats and tyrants to oppress people? you can see it going and either direction. >> i also want to know if there is a work of shakespeare, is there a lot of tragedies and there that reminds you of the times that we're living in today. >> but while there is a passage in the tempest, how is empty and all the devils are here. i thought about that a number of times. but >> thank you for taking me to one of your favorite spots. now i think it's one of my favorite spots. >> you're welcome anytime. the pleasure is all mine. it's four here. that's the thing about a public park. >> i appreciate it, i'm coming back. thank you so much again. >> thank you >> thank you congressman raskin for showing me one of your favorite hiking

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do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch. sleepovers just aren't what they used to be. a house full of screens?ton. basically no hiccups? you guys have no idea how good you've got it. how old are you? like, 80? back in my day, it was scary stories and flashlights. we don't get scared. oh, really? mom can see your search history. that's what i thought. introducing the next generation 10g network. only from xfinity. one quick note before we go. my friend chris hayes is taking a well deserved break this week, so i will be filling in for him this week on all in. be sure to tune and starting tomorrow at eight pm eastern time right here on msnbc. that does it for me today. be sure to follow the show on twitter, tiktok and instagram.

you can also listened every episode on the show as a podcast for free. stay right where you are because there's much news ahead on msnbc. for now, goodbye from washington. she spoke to jack smith's team about january 6th. alice sarah matthews, donald trump's former sec press secretary, about the conversation. also, five classified documents or alleged interference. what is the stronger case? we have legal analysis. spectacular pictures that could become a thing at the past. where this is, and why it matters so much. good day from msnbc world headquarters today. welcome to alex witt, reports time in for alex today.