you can also listened every episode on the show as a podcast for free. stay right where you are because there's much news ahead on msnbc. for now, goodbye from washington. she spoke to jack smith's team about january 6th. alice sarah matthews, donald trump's former sec press secretary, about the conversation. also, five classified documents or alleged interference. what is the stronger case? we have legal analysis. spectacular pictures that could become a thing at the past. where this is, and why it matters so much. good day from msnbc world headquarters today. welcome to alex witt, reports time in for alex today.

we have breaking news this hour. we're going to show you some live pictures in tel aviv. one of the two dueling rallies in israel of a prime minister netanyahu's judicial overhaul. a final vote in parliament is just hours away. this massive rally is happening as netanyahu recovers from overnight surgery to receive a pacemaker. joining me now is nbc's raf sanchez in jerusalem, where thousands are marching on the parliament, angry over the changes. raf, what are you seen? >> well, lindsey, we are seeing a very large, very determined crowd here in jerusalem. just to give you a sense of geography, there's tens of thousands of people have gathered in israeli supreme court. this is the institution that they have vowed to protect from netanyahu's demands. netanyahu's plans would weaken the. court this would curb the power of activists, judges. these protesters say that seriously damaging israeli

democracy. lindsey, what you are seeing behind me as a last ditch effort. as you said, israeli members of parliament are gathering right now, just down the road from here. if netanyahu has his, way they are preparing to begin votes on this plan. tonight, we think the debate will go into the early hours of tomorrow with a final vote sometime tomorrow afternoon. netanyahu is signaling, despite some talk in the air of possible last-minute compromise, that he is determined to drive this through. you're hearing the crowd shouting democracy, democracy, democracy. netanyahu determined to push ahead despite the fact that he was rushed to the hospital in the early hours of this morning. the second time this is happened in a week. he was fitted with a pacemaker. israeli prime minister said that he is generally and good health, but he is suffering from and a regular heartbeat, heart the writ mia, according

to his doctors. he says he's feeling well and will be back in parliament tomorrow to have this final vote. lindsey, if there's anything that might convince him to back down, it is that his political device appears in danger of spiralling into a security crisis. thousands of israeli military reservists are saying that they will not show up for duty of this legislation goes ahead. they say they signed up to serve a democracy, not a dictatorship. some of those reservist, lindsay, our fighter pilots. many of israel's most elite fighter -- are very dependent on these reservists pilots. i spoke to one of these reservist officers who said that he will not show up for duty. he said is one of the hardest decisions he's ever made. he flew f-16 fighter jets through israel for 30 years. he says that he is not prepared to serve in the military of a country that is no longer democracy.

a very intense sign israel. >> what a split screen where we have people who are protesting the judicial overhaul behind you in jerusalem, and the right side of your screen, we have pro netanyahu movement happening in tel aviv. rough, save your voice, we will continue to monitor and go ahead and reach out to us at their major updates. we'll see throughout the afternoon. thanks to you and your crew. >> new reaction is pouring into a possible january six related indictment for donald trump. the former president is facing cascading investigations. many of them are culminating just as the 2024 presidential campaign keeps up. dates for a lawsuit in criminal trials, the hush money and classified documents cases are bumping up against critical nomination dates. anticipation builds on a possible charge related to the 2020 election. e related to the 20it appears to perhaps be missing is the count on aiding and abetting in the aid and

comfort to insurrection. we found overwhelming evidence that donald trump had aided in assisted the insurrection. >> also new today, a potential third indictment drawn even more attention from trump's political rivals. >> yesterday they say that is not really the presidents fault. well, the president invited them there. he incited them by saying that the election had been stolen. then he requested that they march up to the capital, and of course donald trump said that he would march with them. immediately, he marched right back to the safety of the white house and watched what went on. >> and new reaction to house speaker, kevin mccarthy's willingness to schedule a vote that would expunge trump's two impeachments. here's former speaker, nancy pelosi. >> kevin is, you know, playing politics. it's not even clear if he

constitutionally can't expunged those things. this is about being afraid. as i've said before, donald trump is a puppeteer, and what does he do all the time? shine a light on the -- these people are pathetic. >> democrats, meanwhile, are focusing on rising wages and falling prices as part of president biden's reelection strategy. >> it takes a while for people sentiment to catch up to those new trends, especially after everything they've been through. we have every reason to believe that those trends will continue to persist. we've even seen prices come down for gas, food, eggs, beef and chicken. >> we have reporters in place across washington cover and all of the day's developments. we are going to go for us to ryan riley. so trump is now facing a potential second federal indictment over alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 election. how do you anticipate the timeline of these trials plane out? >> that's a really good question. i think with this new of

committing potential trial in d.c., it's very easy for that to get past the 2024 campaign, frankly. you're immediately going to have filings along the lines of a change of venue. this is a motion that it's too democratic. it all probably get rejected because we've seen this in january 16th, the january six case before. they'll be able to say that even though the politics of d.c. are democratic-leaning, we'll have this process. we can go through these candidates for the jury, say, sort them out. people may want to take their, oso bay there oh. this we've had a number of acquittals on january six cases for individual charges for defendants. it's not as though the jurors are just accepting everything the prosecutors say. it's not a reverse stamp. judges have dismissed charges against other individuals, so i think that it's very easy for them to get kicked out, but certainly there will be a lot of things on the calendar. i think they want to get the

schedule to theoretically, at least it would be possible, to go to trial. we've seen the strategy at the mar-a-lago documents case that folks are going to try to kick the can down the road as far as they can. >> ryan, what can you tell us about a high number of january six cases unsealed this week. what does that indicate about jack smith's ongoing investigation and the capitol attack? >> it really did stick out with him. there were 19 cases, and 15 arrests. there were a couple of them that were left over from the other weeks. normally that is a, high especially in recent months. probably the highest we've had in several months. essentially you have to think about this entire investigation is of of a five year track. essentially they have five years to break charges for the vast majority of these federal crimes, based on january six. right now we're basically coming out of halftime. we're coming out of the halfway point. they already have 1000 people who've been charged, with 300 who have been sent to prison sentences. over 500 have been sentenced

altogether. they're very quickly going through these cases. there are been a lot of issues with covid that were met first year. it really slow down the process. i think that second year was more about getting some of these cases through the pipeline. you know, these new 19 cases that we saw this week indicates that there is a lot of work up ahead. i think the bigger sedition trials are, for the most part, out of the way. now the biggest person is donald trump, ultimately, and connection to january six. overall, it's not surprising for federal investigation to take this long. it's just when you match that up against the presidential timeline, it becomes somewhat of an issue. >> ryan riley, appreciate your reporting, thank you. let's head to nbc's julie tsirkin on capitol hill with new reaction from lawmakers. julie, how are members of the january six committee, in particular, reacting to this target letter connected to alleged interference? >> in many ways, lindsay, they are feeling validated by what special counsel jack smith outlined in this target letter

to the former president. this is a committee that spent a year and a half pouring over evidence investigating, calling wouldn't a, senate many cases, getting stonewalled unobstructed by them due to the legal limitations that they have. the special counsel and doj certainly does not. we have heard from two top democrats on that committee. jamie raskin and adam schiff. they were part of those proceedings that the trial and said it after the attack on the capitol. they were also in this building ensuring january six. they live through all of that. take a listen to what they had to say in reaction to that target letter, and what they think will happen going forward. watch. to be focused on what seems overwhelmingly, and indisputably clear. which is the plan to interfere with the counting of electoral college votes, obstruct the peaceful transferal of power, it substitute the actual electoral process. >> my sense of jack smith's, he's doing what he should. he is very conservative.

i think that he's charging decisions to date. i think that given the difficulty of this kinds of pressure to begin with, that kind of conservative strategy makes a lot of sense. >> the special counsel was appointed for a member of this investigation, the committee was winding down. raskin, along with other members, publicly felt like the doj was slow walking the potential investigation to the former president. they were slow walking the criminal charges that were now seen, potentially, come into fruition with this likely third indictment. now you're hearing them talk about what special counsel jack smith is focused on, zeroed it on. that is the overall big picture of what the former president tried to do after the 2020 election and supporting those results. >> le cirque, and thank you for that reporting. and moments, former trump white house deputy press secretary, sarah matthews, joins me to discuss what she knows about the january 6th war room. also, miami heat, the hot

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also defends these services for everyone who lives here. ♪ former president donald trump could be bracing for a possible third indictment this week. it involves his alleged role in the events leading up to the january 6th attack on the capitol. my next guess is in the white house on that day, which led her to resign shortly after. she testified before the house select january six committee about trump's actions during the riot. >> the president had wanted to make a statements and address the american people, he could've been on camera almost instantly. i thought that january six 2021 was sort of the darkest days in our nation's history. president trump was treating it as a celebratory occasion with that tweet. it just further cemented my decision to resign.

>> joining me now line as former trump white house and debris terry secretary. thank you for being with us. it's now been a year since you testified before the january six committee. and the time since, what can you tell us about your contact with special counsel? >> what i don't want to go into too much detail about my communications with a certain council, but what i will say is that i cooperated voluntarily just as i did with the congressional committee that investigated january six. i think that that's the key distinction between the special counsel, and the congressional committee. the special counsel's office has a lot of, accessible of had access to a lot more witnesses then what the house committee had access to, just because of the power. i think that when this potential indictment drops, they will have even more evidence than what we saw from the house committee. >> sarah, i know you don't want to get into too much detail but you are sort of in one of those unique positions where we can ask you what they're the

questioning for the special counsel's and lined up with the house select committee. what can you tell us about that? how much the select committee sort of laid out a roadmap on the special counsel. >> yeah, i think that the house committee laid out a fantastic roadmap for its special counsel to follow in the sense that the special counsel office was able to see what my testimony already was in front of the january six committee. i think that there were a lot of things that they didn't have to ask me about because they already knew what my responses were going to be based on the public testimony that i gave before the committee. >> sarah, i appreciate that you have tremendous respect for the judicial system and wanting everything to go through the appropriate process. can you tell us, have you testified before the grand jury? >> i have not. >> is that something that you will maybe, you anticipate been asked to do at a later time, or something you'd be willing to do? >> like i said, i voluntarily

cooperated with the special counsel so if there came a time when they asked me to, that would be something might be more than willing to. do i don't see it on the horizon. >> sarah, a federal grand jury heard testimony this week from former white house aide, william russell. he now works for trump's presidential campaign. nbc news has learned that prosecutors questioned him about trump's state of mind during and after that whole election period. how closely did you work with william russell, and how significant do you think's perspective can be? >> i think that his perspective can be really helpful to the special counsel's investigation. he was someone that i cross paths with. he was one of the trip directors and the advanced department. he was on the road with president trump anytime that he was traveling. he would be aboard air force one with him, and kind of acted as a body meant for him, that offense, and moving backstage with them. this is someone who definitely had very close proximity to the president, to the president would know by name.

obviously, he followed him to mar-a-lago after trump left the white house. their relationship is still close given that he is on the campaign. i am curious, i don't know this is been reported, it will russell's lawyer is being funded by the trump organization, so i think that that's something that will be key with determining his credibility with his testimony. he has good, lawyers and i would assume that they assured him to be honest and truthful, and transparent in his testimony before the grand jury. >> sarah, given that you saw him more closely with the former president, do you think that william russell would have specific information about his bosses frame of minds around that time? particularly if publicly he was citing fraud, and decreasing for fraud, but was privately conceding he lost the election. >> i think that he, this is something you could've been privy to. like i said, this would've been someone who donald trump knew, traveled with, often.

this means he could've had access to these kinds of concept stations, or things that nature could've been discussed. >> sarah, i want to play something former january six lead investigator said yesterday. on this program. this is about the particular rolling stone article you see on screen. let's take a listen. >> it could be a link between the president and others in the white house, and the rioters. that is the significance of the war room. i can't say that we found such a connection. the war room is where, as you said, steve bannon and rudy giuliani, and john eastman, i think mike flynn, there are a number of people there working on the investigations into these bogus theories of election fraud, and the strategy for january six. roger stone was there. he had security, as did mike flynn, from the oath keepers to the proud boys. there is always an assumption that he, that bannon, that others were sort of, the connection between the white

house and those extremist groups. we didn't get that kind of cooperation, and could not establish that link. that is precisely why the special counsel's interested and the activity that is in the war room. >> sarah, do you know if anyone inside the white house, on an around january six, with any connection or communication to the so-called war room at the world or hotel? >> that wasn't something that i was involved with, or anyone on our team, to my knowledge. i think that that will be something crucial that the special counsel is looking to given that it seems that there may or may not have been communication with those kinds of far-right extremist groups. >> do you think that there might be a connection that you know of because there really wasn't a line of communication between the war room and to trump, or do you think that the players, that they had that communication, and it's a very carefully. >> i think that i definitely wouldn't have had access, or

been privy to that kind of planning, or to that kind of conversation or anything of that sort given my whole bean and the press team. i think that it's possible that they definitely did communicate with those folks, i knew that they needed to do so carefully, and to try to keep it hidden. >> sarah, your testimony in front of the january 6th select committee was powerful. you talk about his multiple opportunities to quell some of the violence we saw that day, but instead, a lot of the tweeting was very sympathetic to the people who were breaking into the capital and committing that violence. as someone he was with the former president on january six, what are your thoughts on potential charges in connection with the events that led to that riot? do you think that, given what we know from the select committee, do you think that the special counsel will eventually unearth enough evidence to charge the former president? >> i think so. i don't want to get into specifics about what i think

those charges will look like, i'll leave that to the legal experts, and obviously we need to see what the potential indictment doesn't even look like, and what additional evidence that the special counsel uncovers may, that may be the house committee did not uncover. obviously, i think that the house committee laid out a lot of evidence, making the case for some charges. i think it's very clear that donald trump was told multiple times from the campaign, from his white house staff, that he lost the election. that there was no evidence of substantial fraud. he continued to push that, lie and try to overturn and a very coordinated effort, to try to overturn the results of the election. i think that there will most likely be some charges that the house committee recommended. >> sarah, i want to play you something that you said about the president social media post back when you testified before the january six committee. >> i worked on the campaign,

traveled all around the country going to countless rallies with him. i've seen the impact that his words have on his supporters. he, they truly latch on to every word in every tweet that he says. i think that in that moment, for him to tweet out the message about mike pence, it was him pouring gasoline on the fire and making it much worse. >> sarah, given that we haven't really seen any of the vitriol diminished, and as we see trump's upcoming trial set to collide with the campaign, do you have concerns over the rhetoric, and what rhetoric can lead to? >> i'm very concerned. i think that if donald trump learned anything from january six, 2021, it is that his words are valuable to his supporters. it can do that going in, but even more so we've seen him recently using this kind of rhetoric. he seems to be encouraging violence. he said something recently, i

think just this week about if he were to go to jail that his supporters are very loyal, that they would be upset. so that is super concerning to me because i think that he knows that his rhetoric can lead to some of his most loyal supporters acting out violence in his name. i'm very worried for what could happen if a potential indictment were leading to this case drops. >> well, sarah matthews, thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> all right, coming, up they are not only beautiful, they are vital to marine ecosystems. why climate change is threatening them. threatening them their meats fresh. that's why soccer pros like me profer the grand slam ham. and this rookie pro... profers fresh sliced turkey. and if we profer it, we know you'll prefer it too. glad you made the cut. you mean slice? seriously? okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. together we provide nutrients to support immune,

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heat alerts today. the massive heat dome will expand east this week. right now, utah is baking in. salt lake city could tie, rather, today's record at

104-degree high after shattering yesterday's record. in arizona, phoenix reached a daily record for the fourth time this week at 118 degrees. today will likely be the 24th day in a row at 110 or hotter. and humid miami, today will be the hottest day of the year, and could break the record for the second day in a row. it could feel as hot as 109 degrees. extreme heat is also causing dire circumstances in our oceans. right now, the water in key west florida is 89 degrees. the above average temperatures are leaving coral reefs engraved danger. the reporter -- from our nbc station in south florida, has this report. >> a healthy coral reef looks like this. corals are sensitive, and with water temperatures soaring and south florida, researchers are worried that this will happen. see those white areas? that's called coral bleaching. right now, we're on track for corals to bleach the summer,

and bleach for a longer period than they've ever bleach before. this will likely lead to high levels of coral mortality. >> how worried are you about the fate of the coral reefs in florida right now? >> very worried. it's really concerning. these high temperatures are just one more stressor on top of all the other stressors that are reefs here are facing in florida. >> coral reefs are showing us the specimens the raisin and northeastern university that go from these tanks, to the reeves of county. right now, they've halted the coral planting effort because the water is just too hot. divers are recording temperatures in the high 80s, as deep a 70 feet. combined with stony coral tissue disease, but you can see here, and pollution, florida reefs keep taking punches, wave after wave. bill prokupecz been following corals for many years. >> it's a very grim forecast. someone asked me the other day,

what can we do about it now? right now, today, there's nothing we can do about it. >> this team is studying pollutants that are dangerous to corals. for genetic engineering, researchers are developing corals that can tolerate higher water temperatures. >> they. are the question is, how many? how can they scale that up? that is the question for the future. the question for the summer of 2023 is, how bad is it going to get? >> so how bad will the hit be to eco tourism and the fishing industry? this depends on healthy reefs. >> it's a one, two, three punch that is devastating. both ecologically, and economically. >> thanks to ariosto for that report. it is a controversial change to how florida's teaches schoolchildren about the horrors of slavery. we're unpacking this headline. desantis doubles down on claims that some blocks benefited from slavery. what he said about the bonus of becoming a blacksmith, next. (bridget) with thyroid eye disease

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over florida's controversial new standards for teaching black history. amongst the loudest voices vice president, kamala harris, who slammed the state's governor, ron desantis, during a last-minute visit to his home state. nbc's allie raffa is in washington, d.c.. ali, how is the district reacting to the vice presidents very public scolding of this policy? >> yeah, lindsey, that trip to

jacksonville coming together at around 24 hours at the personal direction of the vice president. governor desantis called her speech, quote, absolutely ridiculous. he is continuing to justify these changes, while interestingly, still distancing himself from the backlash over them that's following him from florida to the campaign trail. >> the battle over florida's new history curriculum -- >> they insult us in an attempt to gaslight us. >> it's very thorough, very factual. nobody is buying their nonsense anymore. >> going national, a white house official tells nbc news that vice president kamala harris decided to go to florida specifically to challenge its new standards with black history education, past just days ago. >> they dare to push propaganda to our children. >> joel critics are blasting the changes, pointing to lessons that teach middle school students, quote,, how slaves develop skills which in some instances could be applied

for the personal benefit. >> this is unnecessary, to debate whether enslaved people benefited from slavery. are you kidding me? >> florida governor, in 2024 presidential candidate, ron desantis, at a friday campaign and utah justify the changes. >> they're probably going to show some of the folks that eventually part blade to becoming a blacksmith into doing things later and life. >> distancing him self from the backlash as well. >> i didn't do it, i wasn't involved in it. >> the changes are partly a result of a law championed by desantis known as the stop woke act. it's intended to limit teachings and public schools. some academics are defending the change. >> we had to write factual, objective, african american history standards. it covers the good, the bad, the ugly. >> others vowed to stop such lessons from going national. >> this is not a --

mr. desantis education curriculum -- >> it's a fight that biden world does not mind having. they're heavily leaning into this and other cultural flash points been embraced by republicans. their positioning themselves as the ones that can protect freedoms that are under attack by republicans. >> ali, thank you. let's bring in democratic strategist and founder of the national voter protection action fund, don calloway. republican strategist, susan del percio. as well as florida congressman, david jolly. both susan and david are nbc political analyst. let's start with you, don. what is your reaction to these new guidelines, and the vice presidents quick and scathing personal response? >> for those of us who have watched the sociology, and tracked the trends in these policies for the past ten years, you would think that once the southern legislature has passed this anti crt, anti factual history stuff, that could end in one of two ways.

it could end in the new curriculum that effectively wiped out slavery, without acknowledging that it existed. or you can go in a particularly pernicious white. the evil way. this is to say that victims liked it. if you can attack slavery, you can add this to any community that have been marginalized or press in the history of this country. also the history to say that they liked. at that makes it particularly more dangerous, but from a political perspective, it makes it something that republicans won't have to defend 100 years from now because they can deny that it happens. when you add that to the historical factions that are coming out of the supreme court, the ability to create the case in controversy, we are watching republicans create an alternative reality to make sustainable these extraordinary oppressive politics for generations to come. it's a highly dangerous time. >> david, governor desantis's response to this by doubling down on his comments. he said that there were benefits this labor, like a

developing skills like developing a blacksmith. is he too focused on the -- nothing applies the primary? >> i think he's a really bad governor, a bad candidate. you see that in this mixed message from him. he defends, at then he says it wasn't me. i didn't do it. i think very importantly, and that news package, they mentioned the stop woke act that florida passed. rhonda santos did do this sequentially. he asked the legislature to pass the stop we'll get back. this suggests that white people in florida cannot feel guilty. student should not feel guilty. nobody who is white should feel guilty. then he appoints the board of education, and the board of education approves a curriculum that says that slave should be grateful for the skills that they've learned under their white masters. it's a despicable moment for rhonda santas. i think that it shows why he's continuing to struggle nationally, but also on principled leadership, he's failed to reflect any of those talents on the national stage. >> suzanne, let's go ahead and look at another culture hot topic right now. that is the republicans

defending country music star, jason all dean. we talked about this when you are on with me yesterday. this is a new song, it's being criticized for its lyrics. criticize for its video. it was filmed on a courthouse where a black teenager was lynched. donald trump, ron desantis, nikki haley, they've all come to his defense. susan, what's your take on the situation? >> well it's something that i think republicans are going to regret making it a hot button issue because all they do is drive out turnout for democrats when they stand out for hateful music like this, for the video. you, know as you mentioned yesterday, he has a right, the singer has a right to write that song and record it. when you see politicians trying to call it their national anthem practically, then you know that they're going down the wrong path because this is going to be something like rhonda sanchez in florida, coming up with legislation that excludes common sense teachings

and a school curriculum. it's something that people will lash back out in huge numbers. >> dawn, do you want to weigh in? >> yeah, everything that you said is right. there is a lot more existential threat here outside of politics, which is that this is hate to a poppy. this legitimize is not in a tacit way, but in an explicit way, that it legitimizes acts of violence against people who identify as members of the political left. it says that they are not welcome in some of these small places in america, with real americans. as the diverse people of color, people of different ideologies don't live in those communities. those folks who live in that community with, you should they feel safe? this is an over and cause the violence. this is the type of stuff that not only can you not normalize, but it can -- lower vibrational folks who execute relax the violence because they were given the right to do so by pop media. >> i'm going to turn to the biden campaign, this week the biden campaign released a new campaign video that featured an unexpected cameo from that other than congresswoman,

marjorie taylor greene. let's look. >> joe biden had the largest public investments in social infrastructure and environmental programs that is actually finishing what fdr started, that lbj expanded on, and joe biden is attempting to complete. the programs to address education, and medical care, urban problems, rural poverty, transportation, medicare, medicaid, labor unions, and he still is working on it. >> david, this video was released tuesday, it has more than 42 million views. a far-right republicans essentially, at this point, becoming the secret weapon? >> this is one of the all-time great commercials. joe biden shows he gets better with age. that message is perfect. what it does is it is showing a contrast between joe biden and republicans. joe biden focused on letters of opportunity and education, health care, industry, all

walks of life, trying to lift them up. now being criticized by republicans who earnestly are showing that their disdain for this type of economic agenda. republicans want to chase -- joe biden wants to help you, every american, and trying to get ahead. it's a wonderful, incredible moment for joe biden. >> don, marjorie taylor greene is acting like no american wants those programs when in reality, such a huge percentage of people, and people who vote, rely on them. >> yeah, absolutely. a tremendous amount of the people, well, a huge majority of those folks who don't ice dork identifies christian conservatives need all of these social welfare policies, social safety net policies that go and our liberties democratic over the past 30 years. there was a great messaging strategy by republicans which get rule folks to vote against their own interests for generations.

>> susan, -- has repeatedly talked about the congresswoman his famous bogeyman. there are a number of far-right republicans have been critical of the president, why is she become his adversary of choice when he's trying to energize voters? >> she just, she just delivers it on a silver platter for him. i mean never what i think that one which is getting kicked out of the freedom caucus, the next she is featured on a joe biden commercial, in a positive way. marjorie taylor greene is learning that there isn't a very important lesson that there is such a thing as bad press. they can get you in trouble when all you're trying to do is get more attention for yourself, trying to get those votes, trying to raise money. she'll say anything. boyishly getting kicked in the head for it. >> susan, do you think that's a commercial like that, yes it went viral this, week it got a lot of eyeballs, do you think that something like that has staying power? >> absolutely. it was a great ad, as david

mentioned. as a matter of fact, when people are wondering, what's going on with the biden campaign, they're really not doing much, this ad woke everyone up. they say, well, they really know they're doing. just keep, you know, wait, there will be more. >> all right, don kind, away susan del percio, thank you so much. between the manhattan d.a. case, the classified documents trial, and a potential election interference indictments, how former president trump's growing legal cases could collide with the calendar. plus, how tension is gripping israel over a vote that will soon happen on those controversial judicial changes. we're monitoring. this will have more in the next hour. ex hour this is american infrastructure, a prime target for cyberattacks. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. ♪

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so-called war room, and keep witnesses and the visit on the january six investigation. here is a former white house insider just moments ago. >> do you know if anyone inside

the white house, honor around january 6th, with any connection or communication to the so-called war room at the hotel? >> that wasn't something that i was involved with, or anyone on our team, to my knowledge. i think that that will be something crucial that the special counsel is looking into, given that it seems that there may or may not have been in communication with those far-right extremist groups. i think that it's possible that they definitely did communicate with those folks, and do so carefully, try to keep it hadn't. >> joining me now, lisa rubin, nbc legal analyst, and hannah hole david, former spokesperson for the january six committee. hannah, why do you think jack smith is focusing, and part, on any connection between trump and that's pre-january six room? >> this is something the select committee was very interested in. this command center, if you, well of folks who are really

close with donald trump outside of the white house, as you just heard from sarah matthews. no one inside the white house had connection to that, that we could talk to. the individuals that we think up in this command center are ones that really sad, i don't want to talk to the select committee. a big reason is that's the implications of guilt for themselves. we're thinking of rudy giuliani and his legal team. john eastman, he was a part of that, was the legal mastermind behind the fake elector strategy. you have steve bannon, you have roger stone. john eastman, who i just mentioned, came in to talk to the select committee, and pled the fifth over 100 times. roger stone came and to talk to the select committee for about 90 minutes, he pled the fifth the entire time. these are individuals who we wanted information from but couldn't get it. one thing there about the extremist groups that -- roger stone, who many folks are familiar with, had a very close connection with one of the groups that was charged with

this conspiracy, the individuals that were charged. including joshua james who pled guilty to seditious conspiracy, who was roger stone's bodyguard on the day of january six. right? this is a big point of connection, if you can connect donald trump in the white house, to folks and the willard, in this command center. the select committee wasn't able to hear from. if jack smith can get information about this, it will be valuable and important investigation. >> lisa, before we ask you about meadows, is there anything that you want to respond to in terms of the legal implications in this war room, and any connection with the white house? >> lindsey, the thing that i wanted to talk about as mark meadows and his connection to this room. we know that on july 5th, that evening, president trump asked mark meadows to make calls to roger stone and steve bannon, who was, as hannah explained, in trickle characters in that war room at the willard hotel. in fact, according to cassidy hutchinson's testimony before the committee, he actually

wanted to go down there, talked him out of it. we know that he likely made contact with, and that could be by phone. we obviously don't know the contents of that conversation because mr. meadows, among others, are people who didn't even bother to show up before the committee, and despite the fact that the committee referred him to the department of justice for a contempt of congress, had never been prosecuted before that. >> given what we know about meadows, do we think that the key right now is potentially could have legal implications here? or do you get a sense that what we know, and don't, now that he could be cooperating? >> lindsey, those two things are not mutually exclusive, right? this could be cooperating, and they could also have criminal exposure, and have pled guilty already and what could be a serial information. it's quite possible, given mark meadows relative silence over the last few months, that mark meadows is both operating with the special counsel's office, and, as a condition of that cooperation, he was forced to acknowledge all of his criminal

acts and plead guilty to at least some of them. we obviously don't know that yet, but i share the views that george conway, and other, is that mr. meadows's silence. particularly given his closeness to the presidents, in the presidents and/or circle, and the days after he left the white house. this is at least suspicious, if not -- >> while one of the looming questions is still the possibility of what this could lead to. i think if there are convictions, even possible jail time. here is the presidents response that notion. >> for example, they do say, jack smith says, okay, i'm going to put donald trump in jail. >> i think it's a very dangerous thing to even talk about, because we do have a tremendously passionate group of voters. i think it would be very dangerous. >> you know, hannah, earlier this hour, sarah matthews was particularly concerned about that comment. how do you interpret it? >> we have seen how influential

donald trump's words are on his followers. we saw it on january 6th. if he says to do something, or if he implies something, or if he retweet something, his followers will follow his command. right, it wasn't until he told people at the capitol to go home on january 6th that they than sat, and we have video footage of this, he told us to go home. let's go home. so if he makes dangerous implications like this to people that follow and believe what he says, you have a dangerous situation ahead of you. we saw that on january 6th. the fact that he's still doing things like this is frightening. not only for our country, and the violence and safety of everyone and it's, but also for our democracy. >> lisa, i want to show the timeline here for trump civil and criminal trials here. if an indictment comes, whether it's this next week, or later for the grand jury looking into

potential election interference, is there any chance that an election trial could start before the classified documents trial? also, which case do you expect to be shorter? >> lindsey, that's a really interesting question. obviously, it will turn on how narrowly focused this indictment as, how direct the charges are, and what evidence jacks mitt has. one of the things that i think i and other legal analysts have been looking to see is what the special counsel's office has developed evidence directly tying trump to that inner circle of people who in turn have contact with some of the folks who executed and implemented the crime. in other words, who are the people in between and who is the legal mastermind of the electoral strategy, and donald trump. what did he say to those people, and are they willing participants here who will say anything beyond the -- in terms of the stronger case, you know, some of that is up to the department of justice, or

rather, the special counsel's office themselves. it may be that they seek a sooner trial, or a signal to honorable the judges involved, that they are preparedo, and want to try one of these cases sooner than the other. that will involve the consent of two federal judges, and, donald trump as the defendant, or perspective defended, and this coming indictments. this will have a say in that as well. the wildcard factor is that there are obviously other cases on the calendar. as you just showed. maybe some of those folks will show some flexibility about their cases as well. >> i have to be so quick here, but i want to go ahead and play a quick bite before we go. go ahead. >> if i wasn't running, if i was just sort of taking it easy, none of this would've happened. these are crooked, corrupt people. it's called election interference. >> hannah, and above 15 seconds, your reaction? >> he is still perpetuating the big lie, even though he lost

the election, and he knew it. the select committee has proven that. i hope that we get some accountability with the special counsel. >> we will have to leave it there. thank you both so much. that will do it for me on this edition of alex witt reports. i will be back with more news, right after the break. ter the break. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ voltaren. the joy of movement. ♪♪ meet the team all using chase to keep up with their finances. smart bankers. convenient tools. boom. one bank with the power of both. chase. make more of what's yours. and there he is. chaz. the rec league's self-crowned pickleball king. do you just bow down? no you de-thrown the king. pedialyte. 3x the electrolytes.

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wiser in for yasmin vossoughian. breaking news on the showdown that is real. debate has begun on a law that has split the country. led to massive protests. the final vote is hours away. in the midst of all of this, the man pushing the law, prime minister benjamin netanyahu undergoes merge unseat medical procedure. have a live report in just a moment. new reporting today on a key figure in the election interference investigation of donald trump, his